Petra Costa’s documentary, ‘Apocalypse in the Tropics’, on the rise of evangelical influence in Brazil

0:12Hello and welcome to the Monaco Weekly. We head to Brazil now. Apocalypse in the Tropics is a new Netflix documentary that is out now, directed by Oscar-nominated Petra Costa. It looks at the powerful evangelical movement in Brazil and how it paved the way to Jair Bolsonaro's victory. It's an interesting look at the increasing involvement of evangelical leaders in the country's political decisions. I caught up with Petra here in our studio in London.

0:44This city was designed as a vision of Brazil's future. And the cement that held it together was a faith. Not in God, but instead in the equally abstract ideas of progress and democracy. Pedro Acosta, welcome back to Monaco Radio. This time to talk about another amazing documentary, Apocalypse in the Tropics. And what a fantastic theme as well, right? because, you know, we just heard on the news the religion makeup in Brazil, you know, the rise of the number of evangelicals. So when did you decide to do this film? Because clearly you've been noticing something was going on in Brazil. Well, thank you, Fernando, for having me.

1:28Yes, this film is a continuation of The Edge of Democracy. Apocalypse in the Tropics began while I was shooting The Edge of Democracy when I went in the middle of the impeachment process where Brazil was thrown in a democratic crisis in 2016 as many other countries around the world. And I went to Congress trying to understand what was happening to our democracy. And instead of finding congressmen debating the issues at hand, I found a pastor who evangelized me in the middle of the Congress and asked me to accept Jesus. So that was a very symbolic moment for me. and it opened a rabbit hole in which I decided to enter.

2:15And that, Pastor, I mean, one of the main characters in the film is Silas Malafaia, of course. It's such an interesting character because you had incredible access to President Lula, to former President Jair Bolsonaro. But in many ways, Silas Malafaia was the more interesting one, if I may say, of the power that he had, right? It's incredible. Yes, Silas Malafaia is one of the most famous Brazilian televangelists, and he anointed, in some ways, Bolsonaro as the leader that would represent evangelicals in the 2018 presidential race. We approached him in 2020. He granted us access. And what was fascinating to see is that we were filming firsthand as his power grew.

3:03He was just one ally of Bolsonaro. And he became one of the most important allies and was actually writing the president's speeches as the film reveals. And one of the scenes, for example, with Malafaia is a very simple scene. But when he's driving his car and then there was a motorcyclist. I don't know, there was something going on in the traffic and the way he was swearing to the man and kind of relating to religion almost immediately as well. You can see a lot about the man in just that scene, right? Yes. And I think that scene also reveals the theology behind this growing evangelical fundamentalist movement in Brazil, which is a theology that comes from the United States, very linked to dominion theology, which many don't know.

3:49but this dominion theology is driving global politics in a very strong way. And it says that Christians should take over political power, the three branches of power, the executive, the judiciary, and the legislative, as well as other areas of leadership in society, and ultimately build a theocracy. Absolutely. And this film, of course, as a Brazilian, I'm very interested in the film, I get to know all the characters. But even if you're American, I think there's quite an interesting comparison with the United States as well. It's a story about Brazil, but it can kind of replicate to other countries today as well.

4:30Yes, what I'm trying to do in both my films about politics, because before I was doing very personal films, is to tell the story of Brazil as a fable of what is happening in the crisis of democracy globally. Brazil is a mirror to the rest of the world because these phenomenons are spreading like a pandemic. And they're very similar. The rise of this fundamentalist religiosity, which expresses in Brazil and in the United States through Christianity, but in India in another way, in Russia and another way in Poland, And in another way, ultimately, the existential threat that the separation of church and state is suffering right now is a global phenomenon.

5:19And if we don't find ways to protect that separation, we're going to go back into centuries of holy war. I agree. And I could relate to you because you are not perhaps the most expert in the world. Evangelicals, right? And I have to say, me neither. So I think there is this problem today, especially in Brazil, that perhaps a sector of society doesn't have a dialogue with that community in a way, and that could make things a bit worse. So it's quite interesting that someone like you took an interest on the topic, right? Yes. And what we saw was that also during the pandemic, which is when we began filming, the evangelical leaders in the ground, in the favelas, were the one giving spiritual support, emotional support, and actually doing many things that was the responsibility of the state, like having ambulances go to people's houses.

6:13But this is also part of a larger phenomenon where the progressive movements have some, many of them subsumed to being in social media and have their activism in social media. And who's doing the grassroots work? Who's doing the work of being emotional and spiritual support for people? Many evangelical leaders that are spread throughout the country. And you see that also in Malafaya. Malafaya is a spiritual and professional coach, this pastor that we followed. And what he says to his congregations are things like, you are going to be the generation that will change the world. Who else is saying that to young people today?

6:52And so the film Lula says the mistake of socialism was abandoning religion. And I think that's part of a larger coming to terms with the fact that progressive forces have indeed abandoned religion. And with that have lost a huge part of the working class population.

7:18Especially in Brazil, and it is mentioned in the film, the evangelicals, especially the powerful evangelists, they are very powerful. They have an incredible amount of MPs in the Congress. They are the owners of TV stations, of newspapers, of, you know, so they can really propagate their message in a way, right? And I think you mentioned that in the film. Yes. And I'm compelled to make films not necessarily about these political movements, but what compels me to make a film is trying to put words into emotions that seem unnameable. And so in my first films, it was more grief, the pain of losing a sister.

7:57My first film, Elena, which is also on Netflix, is about. But here it's the pain of losing a democracy. And it's a paralysis that many of us are feeling around the world where we thought our systems, our governing systems were there to protect us. And suddenly we see that they're not, that things are falling apart and leaders are accelerating that descent into chaos or unable to actually make effective changes. and how do we deal with that perplexity and that sense of imminent apocalypse that is growing? It's not easy, right? I mean, President Lula, as you said in the film, he kind of understands what's going on, but it's hard to kind of fight against people like Silas Malafai, right?

8:48The power, because they have such an easy language. I can see why some people could relate to that in a way, right? Yes, and I think in times like today, apocalyptic speech works. And what the investigation of this film also showed is that the root of the misconception is in our understanding of the word itself. So if we look, apocalypse does not mean the end of the world. It means a revelation. It means to open our eyes. And that is really symbolic. and coming to terms with that, with what we should open our eyes to, could save us from the apocalypse, I believe. And Petra, tell us a bit more about your relationship as well with Netflix, which is an incredible place to launch a documentary as well because of the people that you'll be able to reach.

9:41So you've been there at the Edge of Democracy, which was also Netflix, right? So tell us a bit more. Yeah, so it was wonderful. Netflix was a great partner for the Edge of Democracy. they entered in the middle of production. And because Brazil is also their second biggest market, the film was widely watched in Brazil. It was the second most watched documentary in Brazil when it came out. And I don't know of any other documentary that was so widely seen and really was part of the public debate. And so I'm very excited to see what will happen with this one. And I have to ask, Brad Pitt was one of the executive producers How did he know about the story?

10:22Was he interested in Brazil? Or do you guys knew each other? So I met Brad Pitt in the nominee luncheon when Edge of Democracy was nominated. And we spoke. He knew about Brazil. And I was a big fan of Plan B, his company. So when we came up with the idea of Apocalypse in the Tropics, I approached Plan B. And they were very excited to come in. Fantastic. Now, I'm very curious if Silas Malafaia have seen the film. So Silas Malafaia will be soon seeing the film. That's great. I mean, it's quite, I was very surprised because the amount of access you had with him, I think that's, and that tells very much about your, you know, your vision as a filmmaker.

11:06Probably you made things very, because I'm sure there were a lot of discussions before, you know, talking to him and having that type of access. Well, you know, he as an evangelist wants to spread his vision of the world. So he speaks often to the press. And we worked with a journalist who was close to him, and he granted us access. And what was wonderful is that access grew over time, and as his influence as well on Brazilian politics grew over time. So, yes. Well, Petra, thank you very much for coming in. The documentary is amazing. Apocalypse in the Tropics, it's out on the 14th of July. Thank you very much.

11:43A nação brasileira está vivendo um momento novo.

11:56Thank you very much, Petra Costa. Her documentary Apocalypse in the Tropics is out now on Netflix. The show was edited by Elliot Greenfield. Thank you very much for listening.