In short
Ari Aster discusses his COVID-era political Western Eddington, set in a fictional New Mexico town roiled by COVID, conspiracy thinking, and polarization. He argues COVID and racial-justice unrest are “bottomless” material, and that people can’t agree on what’s real; conspiracy culture is mainstream and dangerous.
Guest backgrounds
Ari Aster is a writer/director known for horror films Hereditary and Midsommar and the satirical Bo Burnham–adjacent? (Bo is Afraid). He speaks with Adam Howard, a Radio Hour producer/interviewer.
Key claims
The film is satire but “inscrutable” early; it treats stories as “training data” for an incoming system. Aster says COVID wasn’t just new—it cut off an old world. He worries about a “brick wall” ahead and growing dread.
Notable examples
The film’s ensemble includes Joaquin Phoenix as a conservative libertarian sheriff; it references JFK-style conspiracy mania and includes George Floyd protests via the sheriff’s distorted viewpoint. Aster also models Phoenix’s character on a real New Mexico sheriff with a feud with a mayor.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOTrump and the Courts
0:11 to 0:31
Discussion about the ongoing legal challenges faced by the Trump administration.
“Complete your setup with savings on select monitors and must-have electronics and accessories.”
Trump and the Courts
1:20 to 2:29
Discussion about the ongoing legal challenges faced by the Trump administration.
“The big question of this Trump administration over and over again has been this.”
Ari Aster's New Film 'Eddington'
2:29 to 4:00
Introduction to Ari Aster and his COVID-era film set in a fictional community.
“There was the COVID pandemic and all its losses and a reckoning with racial violence that led to some of the biggest protests in our history.”
Filmmaking Amid Crisis
4:00 to 5:00
Ari Aster discusses the challenges of creating contemporary films during tumultuous times.
“Our producer Adam Howard sat down with Ari Aster, who wrote and directed Eddington.”
Thematic Elements of Eddington
5:00 to 7:20
Exploration of Eddington's themes, including conspiracy theories and societal unrest.
“And I do think that a big part of the culture right now is looking to the past.”
Character Development and Inspirations
7:20 to 8:38
Ari Aster reflects on character dynamics and influences from other filmmakers.
“Well, I had written a sort of contemporary Western that was set in New Mexico.”
Navigating Reality and Perception
8:38 to 13:20
Discussion on the differing perceptions of reality and conspiracy culture in America.
“and then when it was over, the movie that came to mind for me was Do the Right Thing because it's just so many incredibly fully realized, funny, lived-in characters.”
Political Discourse and Audience Reception
13:20 to 14:04
Ari Aster addresses the polarized political reactions to his film and its messages.
“That feeling of dread has only grown more intense for me.”
Exploring Political Discourse in Film
14:04 to 16:20
Ari Aster discusses the political implications of his film and audience reception.
“And I imagine there's going to be, whether you want it to or not, people are going to sort of latch on to whatever they want to take politically from this film.”
Exploring Political Discourse in Film
16:32 to 17:08
Ari Aster discusses the political implications of his film and audience reception.
“The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported by Mint Mobile.”
Show all 15 chapters
Exploring Political Discourse in Film
17:13 to 17:24
Ari Aster discusses the political implications of his film and audience reception.
“That's mintmobile.com slash nyradiohour.”
Exploring Political Discourse in Film
17:53 to 18:35
Ari Aster discusses the political implications of his film and audience reception.
“The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported by Bombas.”
Exploring Political Discourse in Film
18:41 to 19:48
Ari Aster discusses the political implications of his film and audience reception.
“That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash radio hour.”
Cultural Reflections: George Floyd and Authentic Storytelling
20:34 to 28:01
Ari Aster reflects on the impact of the George Floyd protests and the importance of authenticity in storytelling.
“And for me, and I think a lot of other black Americans, that period was very fraught because there was sort of a sense that we're having conversations that are good to have.”
Ari Aster on Audience Reception
28:01 to 29:00
Ari Aster discusses the current landscape of film and audience expectations.
“Yeah, I mean, even everybody loves it, something would be wrong.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Adam Howard:The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported by Dell. Back to school starts now. Get long-lasting battery life on the Dell XPS laptop powered by Series 3 Intel Core so you can work from anywhere. Now starting at$6.99 with exclusive student pricing starting at$5.99. Complete your setup with savings on select monitors and must-have electronics and accessories. Limited-time deals and free shipping on PCs and more await you at dell.com slash deals. That's dell.com slash deals.
0:30Adam Howard:The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported by Amazon Music. With Amazon Music Unlimited, you can listen to music, podcasts, and now audiobooks, all in one app. This includes popular titles like Project Hail Mary, one of the most beloved adventure stories by Andy Weir. I have been listening to this audiobook and constantly looking for any pockets of time during the day to turn it on and find out what will happen next in the story. So whether you're catching up on a podcast, listening to your favorite playlist, or, like me, getting lost and a great audiobook, it's all right there within the Amazon Music app.
1:02Adam Howard:Amazon Music. Music, podcasts, audiobooks, all in one app.
1:09Adam Howard:This is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker.
1:18Adam Howard:This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. The big question of this Trump administration over and over again has been this. Can they really do that? Can they reinterpret the 14th Amendment? Can they ignore district court rulings, dismantle the education department, revoke Rosie O'Donnell's citizenship? All of us have questions about the administration and its legal challenges and how the courts are ruling on them. So to answer your questions, the New Yorker's legal experts will join us here on the program. Constitutional scholar Jeanne Sook Gerson and columnist Ruth Marcus. Please send us your questions about Trump and the courts to newyorkerradio at wnyc.org.
2:02Adam Howard:Ruth Marcus and Jeanne Sook Gerson will join me and we'll address as many of your questions as we possibly can. Again, that's newyorkerradio, one word, newyorkerradio at wnyc.org. And tell us where you're writing from, too. I look forward to hearing from you.
2:28Adam Howard:We all remember the spring and summer of 2020, whether we like it or not. There was the COVID pandemic and all its losses and a reckoning with racial violence that led to some of the biggest protests in our history. and there was also one of the most contentious presidential election races in our time. So some might prefer to forget that period, and yet it turns out to be bottomless material for a filmmaker named Ari Aster. In the horror movies Hereditary and Midsommar and the more iconoclastic Bo is Afraid, Aster is relentless about putting his characters and his audience in a state of anxiety.
3:06Adam Howard:Cringe doesn't begin to describe it. Esther's latest film is Eddington, which is set in a fictional southwestern community, a place roiled by COVID and conspiracy theories. So maybe I just talked to your video. Ask where all your deputies went.
3:22Ari Aster:Okay, well, why not just ask your governor about her little catch and release policy, okay? Because if it wasn't for that, maybe I could hold on to my deputies and the people we arrest.
3:32Adam Howard:I know, I know one of them was fired for excessive force, and another one was forced to quit by a YouTube First Amendment auditor. Okay, yes, that is the same auditor that drove away your work. Your undershared died of a fentanyl overdose. From the handling fentanyl. And your captain and your chief deputy took jobs in Rio Rancho. That was devastating. Eddington stars Joaquin Phoenix and Emma Stone, and it's like a hand grenade tossed into the traditional summer movie season. It is unapologetically political, but the satire doesn't spare either side of the aisle. Our producer Adam Howard sat down with Ari Aster, who wrote and directed Eddington.
4:15Adam Howard:I think one of the things I'm impressed by is just your willingness to sort of take a big swing and do something contemporary. A lot of the big blockbusters you see nowadays could take place in any time, any universe. Even a movie I really admired, like Sinners, it speaks to modern politics, but from the vantage point of a period film. Why do you think more filmmakers aren't more willing to sort of touch the hot stove of the here and now?
4:38Ari Aster:Well, I think it's really hard to talk about the moment because nobody really understands what's happening. And, you know, it's hard to make a film about COVID because we haven't metabolized any of that. I mean, I don't feel we've metabolized how seismic that was. But we're also still living through it. We're still in it. And I do think that a big part of the culture right now is looking to the past. And there's a lot of nostalgia. And then there's a lot of talk about trauma. But it's all about looking back while we're ignoring the present. And we're not even talking about the future because I don't think we believe in it.
5:21Ari Aster:But I think that has a lot to do with the fact that the people leading us don't believe in the future. I've been asked, you know, to describe what the film is about in one sentence. And my answer to that was it's about a hyperscale data center being built just outside of a small town. And the film begins with the promise of a data center being built that is tied to AI. And not to give away too much of a spoiler, but we end on that. There's a way of looking at all the stories in the movie Eddington as training data. The movie Eddington is training data for whatever this thing is that's coming, which, you know, I didn't ask for.
6:04Ari Aster:Right, right.
6:05Adam Howard:I don't know if you did. No, no. So all of your movies have a sense of humor, but I think it's fair to say that Eddington is your funniest. and when I went to see the movie, I had an experience I don't think I've ever had before where at the beginning of the movie, and this is not spoiling anything, there's a title announcing when the film takes place that it's May of 2020. And that immediately got a huge laugh from the audience I was in. And I was like, oh, that's really cool that we're all kind of collectively acknowledging that sort of gut punch of like, yep, I remember that and I'm ready. You know, buckle up.
6:38Adam Howard:Was your approach always going to be satirical?
6:41Ari Aster:Yeah, well, yes, it was always going to be satire, but I also wanted it to be inscrutable. You know, I wanted whatever my position is in all of this to be maybe veiled for as long as I could. I think at the end of the film, it becomes pretty clear where I stand. but I wanted to make a film that was kind of pulling back and describing the structure of reality at the moment which is that nobody can agree on what is real.
7:16Adam Howard:Right. My understanding is that some version of this script has existed for some time. Is that right?
7:23Ari Aster:Well, I had written a sort of contemporary Western that was set in New Mexico. I'm from New Mexico a long time ago, long before I made Hereditary, right after I left school. I wasn't able to get it made, and I lost interest in it. And then in late May, early June 2020, I found myself in New Mexico near family, and I wanted to get down on paper what was in the air. Everything had kind of reached a boiling point. The fever of 2020 lockdown had kind of reached its highest pitch, and I wasn't sure what was going to happen, whether it was going to explode, whether it was going to boil over. I was writing it in a state of anxiety and dread, which I think is sort of the prevailing mood of not just the moment but for like the last 10 years.
8:20Ari Aster:The framework of a contemporary Western suddenly felt really appropriate for this. And so I kind of went back to the structure of that old script, but everything else was, you know, kind of written from scratch.
8:35Adam Howard:When I was watching it, I guess because you're juggling so many interesting characters, I was sort of thinking a little bit about the work of Robert Altman a little bit. and then when it was over, the movie that came to mind for me was Do the Right Thing because it's just so many incredibly fully realized, funny, lived-in characters. Like the world is very recognizable, but there is this sort of ratcheting tension. I wonder what you make of that comp and then also if sort of similar to that film, you sort of were very intentionally trying to do something topical and get in people's faces a little bit with this movie.
9:09Ari Aster:Yeah, well, when you mention Altman, And I'm sure you're maybe referring to Nashville. 100%. Which is one of my favorite films. Mine too. And I think one of the great films about America as like a circus.
9:21Adam Howard:It's been hard work, but every time we get into a fix, let's think of what our children face in 2-0-7-6. It's up to us to pave the way with our blood and sweat and tears. For we must be doing something right To last 200 years
9:48Ari Aster:So certainly that film was on my mind, but Do the Right Thing, you know, is just one of the great works of art. Hey, hey, sir, how come you got the Brothers Upon a War here? You want Brothers on a War? Get your own place, you can do what you want. And I will say that it was a reference for me early on when I was giving the script to people.
10:10Adam Howard:But this is my pizzeria. American Italians are the wall only.
10:15Ari Aster:Yeah, that might be fine, Sal, but you own this. Rarely do I see any American Italians eating in here. All I see is black folks. So since we spend much money here, we do have some set. But, you know, the tongue is slightly in the cheek there, especially because it's set in a town with very few black people. in a state with very few black people. Right, right.
10:40Adam Howard:So just to go back to your earlier point about sort of the differing perceptions of reality right now, one of the most unsettling things about the moment we're in is what people are willing to believe in. You got QAnon and replacement theory. The president of the United States is sharing memes that his predecessor might be a double. And the conversation we're having right now, of course, is happening amidst a time where the Jeffrey Epstein story has sort of resurged into the public consciousness. So I wonder if you could speak a little bit about how you feel about conspiracy theory culture and why it's such a center of this particular film.
11:13Ari Aster:Right. And with, yeah, with the Epstein stuff, you know, the snake is now starting to eat its own tail. Yeah, it really scares me that all these things have come into the mainstream, including Nazism. It's really alarming. And I wanted to make a film where kind of everybody is in a way a conspiracy theorist. You know, you were asking about references or films that might be on my mind, and one was JFK, which I think is a really interesting film because it's kind of a rat king of different conspiracy theories that don't have a lot to do with each other. Some of them contradict others. And so it's been like widely discredited.
11:56Ari Aster:But I find the film to be really, not only fascinating, but important for the way that it captures the fever and the mania of conspiracy thinking.
12:08Adam Howard:Oswald, Ruby, Cuba, the Mafia, keeps them guessing like some kind of parlor game prevents them from asking the most important question, why? Why was Kennedy killed? Who benefited? Who has the power to cover it up? Who? And I feel like all of us in America now,
12:27Ari Aster:we're kind of living in that atmosphere, the atmosphere of JFK. Right. We're all the only ones who see what's actually happening. I feel that Eddington is a film about a bunch of people who really care about the world. And they all know that something's wrong. They just, nobody can agree on what that thing is. And they're all looking at the world through these strange windows that are distorted. And they distrust anything that falls outside of their bubble of certainty. So it's a film about what happens when these people living in different realities start bumping against each other.
13:04Adam Howard:You said you wrote this in a sort of state of anxiety and fear. Do you feel more fearful now since the creation of this film, this whole process? Or is there anything you're feeling optimistic about? Or do you feel like we're actually going downhill?
13:20Ari Aster:That feeling of dread has only grown more intense for me. It feels like we are on a very dangerous path. And it feels like, to me, at the very end of this path is a brick wall. But we're only accelerating. And if there's anything maybe hopeful in the film, it's that it is a period piece, right? And so maybe there's some opportunity in seeing the way we were. And maybe that can give us some clearer picture of where we are. Right. And the path that we're on. I mean, the film is also a Western and it's a genre film and it's meant to be fun.
13:59Adam Howard:Well, in spite of that, I don't need to tell you, we live in a very politically polarized moment. Yeah. And I imagine there's going to be, whether you want it to or not, people are going to sort of latch on to whatever they want to take politically from this film. So there'll be people who feel like it's too one-sided and there'll be others who will say it's not one-sided enough. Have you steeled yourself for that discourse? And are you sort of comfortable wading into that stuff?
14:25Ari Aster:Yeah. I mean, look, I also made this film in 2024 before the election. Right. And I've never made a film that kind of changes day to day so much. But I'm definitely aware of the critics of the film. And I feel like, you know, most of them come at the film for not taking enough of a stance or not being partisan enough. But that's not what the film is about. And to me, that would have been way too narrow. The film is about the environment. And if I did make a partisan film, that would have only reached the choir that it was preaching to. And that just, I don't even see the point in it at this point.
15:06Ari Aster:I'm most concerned right now with the fact that we're all kind of unreachable to each other.
15:16Adam Howard:But just going back to COVID, COVID is this thing that, to your point, we've just so assiduously avoided reckoning with. A million people died. You would never know it sometimes. It's something that I think people are consciously trying to avoid. So how do you make that the center of a movie and get people to buy tickets on a summer day and say, you could go see Superman, but come watch this movie to revisit like a very painful chapter in American history?
15:42Ari Aster:Well, I mean, we all went through it. And I don't know. I'm personally like desperate for art that at least attempts to grapple with whatever the hell is going on right now. So if anything, I just made the movie that I kind of wanted to see. But COVID, I think, was a really huge inflection point. I don't think it was the advent of anything. I think we had been living in something for a long time. But it was the moment at which I think the last, whatever that old world was, was cut.
16:19Adam Howard:Ari Aster, speaking with the Radio Hours, Adam Howard. More in a moment.
16:32Adam Howard:The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported by Mint Mobile. There are things in life that you don't want to be transparent, like your swimsuit or your search history. But when it comes to your wireless bill, transparency is everything. That's why Mint Mobile's wireless plans have no gimmicks and no gotchas, just high-speed data and reliable coverage on the T-Mobile 5G network. And right now, all plans are$15 per month, even unlimited. Choose from three, six, or 12-month plans and say goodbye to a monthly bill. You can even bring your current phone and your number. To get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com slash nyradiohour.
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17:13Adam Howard:That's mintmobile.com slash nyradiohour. Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com slash nyradiohour. That's it. There's no catch. Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for 12 months. Plan required,$15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Greater than 50 GB may slow when network is busy. Includes up to 20 GB hotspot. Capable device required. Availability, speed, and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com. I'm Emily Flake, cartoonist at The New Yorker. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported by Bombas. Summer's here and we are living for all things outdoors.
18:00Adam Howard:Whether your thing is jogging, heading to the beach, or grilling in front of your stoop, Bombas makes your comfiest summer staples so you can make the most out of all your summer plans. They've got a whole line of pro-level, sports-specific socks for golf, yoga, the gym, and socks for every kind of runner. I personally do not run if I can help it, but I walk everywhere. And if I don't get my 10 ,000 steps in, my phone will yell at me. These socks are so soft and cushioned right where I need it, whether I'm doing a power saunter in the park or just running a million errands. Plus, they're airy, sweat-wicking.
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19:48Adam Howard:Head to Wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com. Wayfair. Every style, every home.
19:58Ari Aster:Wayfair. Every style, every home. Early radio enthusiasts discovered something about shortwave broadcasting.
20:05Adam Howard:Radio waves are set out in all directions.
20:07Ari Aster:That was different from AM and FM.
20:10Adam Howard:When these waves strike the antenna of a receiving set, we hear sound originating at that very moment, hundreds or even thousands of miles away. Long live the short waves on this week's On the Media from WNYC.
20:26Ari Aster:Find On the Media wherever you get your podcasts.
20:33Adam Howard:Beyond COVID, this movie delves into the George Floyd protests and the sort of movement around that. I happen to be a black American. And for me, and I think a lot of other black Americans, that period was very fraught because there was sort of a sense that we're having conversations that are good to have. But the lack of actual tangible progress during and after. And now we're kind of living in the midst of a backlash to a lot of that. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about your perspective on that whole moment.
21:05Ari Aster:I was amazed at the power and momentum of that movement. Yeah. I haven't seen anything like it since, and I hadn't seen anything like it in so long. And I think one of the things that allowed that to happen was the fact that people's public lives had kind of shut down completely. But the film is doing something kind of tricky, which is that we're largely tied to the perspective of like a conservative white sheriff. Played by Joaquin Phoenix. Played by Joaquin Phoenix, who is something of a libertarian. And so we are receiving the news of George Floyd's murder with him. Through his eyes. Yeah, through his eyes.
21:47Ari Aster:And he's getting the spin that he's getting. Meanwhile, he's living in a tiny town in New Mexico that has very few black people. He works with a black person. But this is all very abstract to him. And even the kids who are being activated in town, it's abstract to them. and some of them are much more sincere in their efforts. And some are just looking for community and this is a bandwagon that they're jumping on. And so, again, the challenge here was for me to pull back as far as I could and just give as broad a picture of the landscape at that moment as possible.
22:27Adam Howard:I'm curious why you thought the Southwest was sort of an ideal setting for this particular story. And how did you use your own experience growing up there to sort of infuse the film with some authenticity?
22:39Ari Aster:Well, you know, it's the region that I know best. And I've always wanted to make a film set in New Mexico. New Mexico is already a really interesting microcosm for the country. It's a blue state, but most of the small towns are red. And, you know, there's a long history of racial resentment. And there are just so many cultures that never really intersect or they do only in the most superficial ways. And I was especially aware of that when I was a little kid just in school. And it felt exciting to me to make an ensemble film in New Mexico where you're covering as many bases as you can and kind of including as many voices in the cacophony as possible without neglecting to tell a coherent story.
23:34Adam Howard:This is your second collaboration with Joaquin Phoenix in a row. I'd love to hear more about what your working relationship with him is like, what makes him such a unique actor for this kind of project.
23:45Ari Aster:Yeah, well, Joaquin and I worked together once on Bo is Afraid, and that was a really good experience. I think we both have a lot in common. We're both kind of nuts, and we're very neurotic, and we are serious about what we're doing. and he's somebody who really likes to talk through things a lot. And I have found that that is a really useful process for me, just going over the script and he'll have a lot of questions and the purpose is never to answer those questions I've learned, but rather to find what the more activating questions are and find a way to preserve those and keep those going so that on the day of shooting, those are still alive.
24:32Ari Aster:Whenever anything becomes rote or figured out for him, it's dead. And this was an interesting process because his character, Joe Cross, was kind of inspired by somebody I had met in New Mexico. When I was rewriting the script, when I was polishing it, I flew back out to New Mexico. I drove around the state. I went to different counties and talked to different sheriffs. I went to small towns, talked to mayors, police chiefs, public officials. I went to Pueblos, just trying to get as broad a picture of the state. And I met a few really interesting people. One of them was this sheriff of a vast county but very small population.
25:17Ari Aster:And I flew out there again with Joaquin because I wanted him to meet him. And we drove around with the sheriff for a couple days. and Joaquin's wardrobe in the film, his look, his stance was, you know, kind of modeled on this guy. What was it about him that was so striking to you? It's kind of ineffable. It's hard to say. I mean, he was a big personality. He is a 70-year-old or so man who used to be a cop in Albuquerque, but it was too violent for him. And so he came out to this county and ran for a sheriff. He had a feud, a long-running feud with the mayor of the biggest town in his county.
26:01Adam Howard:Which is similar to a plot point in the film, yeah.
26:04Ari Aster:Exactly. Yeah. With Joaquin and Pedro Pascal's character.
26:07Adam Howard:Is he aware that this character is going to be somewhat loosely inspired by him?
26:13Ari Aster:He even showed up to consult. Oh, wow. On a few days. Okay. And so he saw that Joaquin was dressed like him. Yeah, how did he feel about that?
26:22Adam Howard:I think he was thrilled. Yeah. Has he seen the finished movie yet?
26:25Ari Aster:Not yet, but I'm curious to hear what he thinks.
26:28Adam Howard:Yeah. Do you read reviews of your films or do you sort of tune that stuff out?
26:32Ari Aster:Every time I promise I'm not going to. And then I relent. No, it's, you know, I find that it can be really harmful. So there's always a point at which I have to stop. But, you know, you spend so long making a film and then you want to know how it's being received. I tend to get the temperature. Right. And, you know, there are filmmakers who claim to not look at that stuff at all, and I think that's probably bullshit. Yeah. I can't imagine not even peaking. Yeah.
27:04Adam Howard:One of the reasons I wanted to ask is that, as I'm sure you know, some of the reviews have sort of alluded to this movie being polarizing or divisive, and that being potentially your intent.
27:13Ari Aster:Well, the film is about polarization and the reception has been polarized, but that feels natural to me. And it's not like I set out to do that. Like, yeah, with this one, I'm going to make something really divisive. But while we were in the edit, my editor, Luke Johnston, and I would, you know, say, yeah, this is going to – it would usually be at points in the film where we'd be like, okay, yeah, this is where we're going to – Lose people? Uh, potentially, but to me, excising all those things would have made the film just nothing. Yeah. You know? And so you got to listen to the movie and do what's right for the movie.
27:57Ari Aster:I mean, the worst thing that could happen for a movie like this is meh. Or everybody loves it. Yeah, I mean, even everybody loves it, something would be wrong. And I don't know how that would even be possible anymore in this landscape, but it honestly, it feels right. My concern is that I don't know how much of a hunger people have anymore for anything controversial or challenging. So, you know, what I want is for people to go out and see it. I do hope that the film is funny. And it's a Western. I hope it's rousing. You know, it becomes an action film by the end. Kind of an absurd one. I hope that there can be some sort of bizarre solidarity in sitting in a theater with a bunch of people and recognizing the insanity of the moment.
28:49Ari Aster:And just the fact that we're all kind of struggling on the wrong end of puppet strings. And, you know, that our neighbor is not our real enemy.
29:00Adam Howard:Thank you so much for coming in and for having this conversation with me. It's been great to talk to you.
29:04Ari Aster:Thank you for having me.
29:09Adam Howard:director Ari Aster speaking with the Radio Hour's Adam Howard his new film Eddington is opening in theaters nationwide and you can read Justin Chang and Richard Brody on the movies at newyorker.com and you can always subscribe to the magazine there as well newyorker.com I'm David Remnick thanks for joining us this week see you next time
29:34Adam Howard:The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by Meryl Garbus of Tune Yards, with additional music by Louis Mitchell and Jared Paul. This episode was produced by Max Balton, Adam Howard, David Krasnow, Jeffrey Masters, Louis Mitchell, Jared Paul, and Ursula Sommer, with guidance from Emily Botin and assistance from Michael May, David Gable, Alex Barish, Victor Guan, and Alejandra Deckett. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Charina Endowment Fund.
30:23Adam Howard:I'm Jessi Sepchak. And I'm Shilpa Oskoukowicz. And we're senior test kitchen editors at Bon Appetit and the hosts of the Bon Appetit Bake Club podcast. Bake Club is Bon Appetit's community of confident and curious bakers. We love to bake. Some might even call the two of us obsessive. And we love to talk about all the hows and whys and what didn't work that come with it. Every month, we publish a recipe on bonappetit.com that introduces a baking concept that we think you should know. Then you'll go bake, send us any questions you have. And we'll get together here on the podcast to talk about the recipe.
30:57Adam Howard:And this month, we're making plum cheesecake karpatka. It is a spectacle of a giant Polish dessert, and it is so fun. Head on over to BA.com and come and bake along with us. Send us your questions, pictures, and any thoughts to bakeclub at bonappetit.com or find us on Substack. Join us here on the first Tuesday of every month as we debrief about our latest bake. Find BA Bake Club wherever you get your podcasts. Happy baking.
From the publisher
“I’m personally desperate for art that at least attempts to grapple with whatever the hell is going on right now,” the writer-director Ari Aster tells Adam Howard, a senior producer of the Radio Hour. “ ‘Eddington’ is a film about a bunch of people who . . . know that something’s wrong. They just—nobody can agree on what that thing is.” Many of us would prefer to forget a fearful time like the spring and summer of 2020, but Aster is relentless about putting his characters and his audience in states of anxiety, whether in his horror films “Hereditary” and “Midsommar,” or in the more genre-bending “Beau Is Afraid.” “Eddington,” his latest, is a neo-noir Western featuring a gun-toting, libertarian sheriff, played by Joaquin Phoenix, who confronts COVID, the George Floyd protests, and a mysterious A.I. data center that’s being built in his county. It’s like a hand grenade tossed into the traditional summer-movie season. The film is unapologetically political, but its satire doesn’t spare either side of the aisle. “My concern,” Aster admits, “is that I don't know how much of a hunger people have anymore for anything controversial or challenging.”
