Jon Lovett Answers Your Questions

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1:34The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co-production of WNYC and The New Yorker. Welcome to the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. The 2026 midterm elections, and we're through most of the primaries at long last, has been a bruising process for many Democrats. On the one hand, the turnout was strong, and that's always good, but very close finishes in crucial swing states have put a spotlight on the divide between the party's moderate and progressive wings, and there's rancor over support of Israel and many other issues. John Lovett straddles that divide. Lovett was a longtime speechwriter for Hillary Clinton and then Barack Obama, so he's tightly linked to the Democratic establishment.

2:20But as a commentator on the podcast Pod Save America and Love It or Leave It, he's also been very critical of the party's orthodoxies. That's put him at odds with defenders of President Biden and made him a little harder to pin down ideologically. So I wanted to get John Lovett's read on the midterms, which are just around the corner, and what they might suggest for 2028. Now, you might remember the other day I asked you for your questions about all these issues, and we heard from a lot of you by email, voicemail, and Instagram. So I'm going to pitch John Lovett some of your questions as well.

2:58John, let's start with the most basic thing in the world. Are you absolutely sure that Democrats are going to take the House, and what are the odds of the Senate? No, and I don't think anybody should be sure. Republicans have done a lot to draw maps to give them an advantage. We see that in Texas and elsewhere. Also, the Democratic Party is incredibly unpopular. If people vote for Democrats in this election, and I hope they will, I ultimately believe they will, it will not be because there's some love for what Democrats are offering. It is because of a revulsion of what Trump has done. and the Republicans in Congress who have gone along with it or outright embraced it.

3:39We have to really pull an inside straight. Did I use a sports analogy correctly to take the Senate? You did. And I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful. We have a great candidate in Iowa that puts that in play. We have a great candidate in Texas that puts that in play. We've hopefully gotten to the other side of the primary mess in Maine. But no, I think— You're leaving out Michigan conspicuously. Abdul El-Sayed just won a big primary victory there. So one thing that's happened over and over— and I'm not comparing these races or these candidates specifically. I'm talking about just a broad trend. And this has been true for a long time, which is establishment figures or organizations put up candidates and they say, vote for us or else.

4:28And people just keep picking or else. And there are a lot of people who lament. They say, these are candidates that are too far to the left and that's gonna make it harder for us to win these seats. But then across the board, I don't know what this establishment of the Democratic Party stands for and neither does the country. And so then people say, you know, we want an alternative where we know what people are gonna fight for. We know what drives them. We know what they care about. And if you're not offering that from the center or the center left. You can keep running into this problem. No one's going to give you these primary victories anymore.

5:02John, I can't quite make out how the kind of remaining Obama wing of the party really feels about the DSA. In some instances, people appreciate the energy, the freshness, the talent, certainly, in Mamdani and some others, but are made nervous by some of the ideas or impulses in the DSA. And I wonder if, as one of the voices of Pod Save America, which is so associated, for obvious reasons, with the Obama wing of the party, how do you feel about the DSA and its influence on the midterms? I think you have to separate some of the politicians and the organization, which is, first of all, there are many different branches and groups that I honestly have trouble keeping track of.

5:52Within this organization, there's tons of disagreements and disputes, right? But you see what Mamdani has done to galvanize people. And you see him manage to adjust, make compromises in ways that are very political without being tagged as being political, which is the work of a great politician, something Bill Clinton was good at, something Barack Obama was good at, something Bernie Sanders is good at. You see AOC and how she has navigated being part of the DSA while trying to have a version of progressivism that is more welcoming and open. And I think you even see in AOC's language over the years how she's moved away, I think, from some of the more academic or kind of online way of talking about politics to something that's a little bit broader.

6:42And then I think you see people that tend to be more online and that... John, online means what? More emotionally charged, more ideological. What does online mean in this context? I just mean the people that are fighting the fights online day after day, what it does to their brains. I think some of those are people that are in the world. By the way, this is true of moderates, center left, everybody. If you're on if you're in the online content minds, it is clear that there are people that are much more animated and excited about defeating Democrats in a factional battle than going then coming together at the end of a difficult primary and taking on the Republicans.

7:23And I understand that, right? I'm not like judging that. You're a left wing organization that's trying to shift the broad left side of our politics towards what you believe is a better version of the country. But then if that's what animates you, if that's what excites you, but that same energy and enthusiasm doesn't continue into the general, you have people that don't embrace the Democrat in the end and act as if the responsibility we all have, which is just to measure the new candidates and choose who's going to do either the better job or the less worse job, something we all have to do as citizens, that that doesn't apply to you.

7:58I think it's very frustrating. It is. So we're here to answer questions, especially from listeners. And here's a question from Crenna from Larkspur, California. And she asks this, how can Democrats take back the narrative that they and not the Republicans are the fiscally responsible party? You know, you're smiling broadly. I'm smiling because there's something about our side where we love to have debates about how to talk about politics. And like, I think about how these debates resolve on the Republican side, right? A politician wouldn't say we need to be the party of fiscal responsibility. They might, but they would also say Democrats are profligate wasters who are going to raise taxes on you, the middle class, and use it to pay for their pet projects, undocumented transgender-affirming care, whatever they want to say.

8:54And I think sometimes there's a lot of on the pro-democracy broad coalition on the left that doesn't like to take off the velvet gloves and just do politics and just make the argument. They want to talk about the argument we should be talking about. It's sort of part of our nature. And I think sometimes we have to do a little bit more showing and a little less telling. I was listening to Pod Save America just recently, and I forget which one of you said this, but the fastest way to get booed, apparently, for candidates is to mention Chuck Schumer or Hakeem Jeffries. And we hear that a lot. Is it time for Democrats to replace their leaders in the House and the Senate?

9:35So I want to be nuanced about it because I think Chuck Schumer has been a terrible communicator, right? If you're looking for a spokesperson for the Democratic Party, brutal. I also think there are plenty of times where - What makes him so brutal? I think he's just a person of another era. He just is. And his style of politics built around kind of press conferences outside of gas stations and messaging bills to drive attention and soundbites. It's just of another era. I remember when I first started in politics writing speeches. What was the goal of a speech or an announcement of some kind? it was to get the journalists and television stations there to cover it, to take a salient quote from it, use that to inform their coverage, and that would be disseminated to people.

10:30And Schumer was good at that. He knew how to do that. And maybe it'd be a little splashy in some fun way. Maybe there'd be a pun. Maybe it'd be silly. Good for local TV news. That's just not how it works anymore. Trump, I think, by being so extreme and saying things that are so outlandish, kind of ironically brings that style of politics back. But for everybody else, it just doesn't work that way. It's more about moments and emotion and authenticity. And it's just not what he is geared toward. Is authenticity just another kind of performance? Oh, yes. Of course. Yeah. And this is the thing, right?

11:04Which is people, they crave authenticity, David Rubnik. They crave it. Yeah. Who exemplifies that in your mind? Bernie Sanders is excellent at that, right? He is authentically repeating his message as he's done for a very long time. I think politicians that are adroit at social media and just filming something to camera and having a conversation is, I think, the best version, the most generous version of what the kind of authenticity is that people are looking for. AOC does that really well. Chris Murphy. Wasn't that the downfall of Hillary in a way, that she was seen as inauthentic in her self-presentation in 2016?

11:43I think it's part of it. It's funny, though, right? Because what does that actually mean, right? I worked for Hillary Clinton as her speechwriter, not on the presidential in 2016, but on her Senate campaign in 2006, presidential in 2007 into 2008.

12:00And if you go back and listen to Hillary Clinton's commencement that she gave in 1969, where she spoke when she graduated from Wellesley, it's a beautiful speech. But you'll hear her speak and you'll just think, wow, that's not how she sounds. That's so interesting. We've had lots of empathy. We've had lots of sympathy. But we feel that for too long, our leaders have viewed politics as the art of the possible. And the challenge now is to practice politics as the art of making what appears to be impossible, possible. There's a vulnerability to it and an openness to it. And 40 years of being Hillary Clinton, being absolutely ripped to shreds when you get a little too mad, when you dance, when you smile, when you wear something interesting, when your husband has a relationship in his office and you are the butt of jokes because of it for years after.

13:01I think it's so natural to kind of close off and feeling like you're always under siege, I think, had a real impact on how she communicates. Sophie on Instagram put it this way. How, quite eloquent, how cooked are we? Is there a chance of the midterms being canceled? No. Let's, no. Okay. We're not there. We're not imagining the unimaginable. We should all imagine the worst case scenarios. I get it. However, I do sometimes think that because we were so caught off guard by Trump's rise and his reelection, frankly, that there's this fear of just saying emphatically what Trump can and cannot do. Right.

13:46And I think sometimes we allow a little bit of the rights embrace of Trump magic to kind of start to kind of ensorcell us a little bit. The big, fractious country with thousands of municipalities running elections. There's no canceling of elections. There's a lot of shenanigans Trump can get up to. There's a lot of damage he can do. There's a lot of intimidation he can do. There's a lot of ways he can manipulate the Department of Justice. Forget shutting down the vote. just using it to kind of try to tar candidates. There's a lot at Trump's disposal. But I think sometimes we allow ourselves to be afraid of Trump in a way that gives him more power than he has.

14:26And he already has a lot of power. A listener named Dante from Brooklyn, New York asks, if candidates win on an extreme anti-Israel, pro-Palestine stance as they have in New York, we can see where Dante is coming from. Does the messaging change the Democrats at a federal level and in 2028? Or can Democrats strike a more middle ground the way, say, Brad Lander did, and persuade voters that his version of liberal Zionism, which is, I think, his description for himself, is a path forward? Brad Lander's position is a progressive left position. Yep. I can see how that is not always the case inside of these debates, but that's what it is.

15:06And so do I think the Brad Lander position is ultimately kind of where the consensus is? probably, right, which is, I think, not embracing some of the more extreme rhetoric, but sending military aid to Israel, having a much tougher stance on the policy that we put towards Israel, I think is probably would be where we'd end up. I know we're going to have a big primary about it, and there's going to be a bunch of different points of view. And the person that emerges from that primary is going to set the agenda of what the Democratic Party will stand for in 2028. I do think it is incumbent upon those who are worried about anti-Semitism in the country and concerned about what has happened to the bipartisan consensus on Israel face just how much damage Israel has done to its own reputation and how much of responsibility Israel and Benjamin Netanyahu has for what has happened.

16:07People are persuaded by what they have seen and to fail to appreciate that. Meaning the flattening of Gaza. The destruction of Gaza, the killing of civilians, the war crimes, the campaign of ethnic cleansing, the embrace of settlements in the West Bank. All of this has made Israel a pariah nation and undone a consensus in American politics that has been central to Israel's place in the world since its founding. And if you want to stop being asked, is it a genocide, but you don't want to say it's a genocide, ask yourself why this term and this question carry such meaning. It is because it is a stand-in for understanding what you believe, right?

16:56And you have sort of mealy-mouthed criticisms of Israel, and it feels as though you're kind of repeating, kind of talking points from 20 years that don't reflect the reality on the ground right now, then you're going to be hammered by this over and over again. I'm speaking with Pod Save America's John Levin. We'll continue our conversation in just a moment. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour.

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19:05This includes popular titles like Project Hail Mary, one of the most beloved adventure stories by Andy Weir. I have been listening to this audiobook and constantly looking for any pockets of time during the day to turn it on and find out what will happen next in the story. So whether you're catching up on a podcast, listening to your favorite playlist, or, like me, getting lost in a great audiobook, it's all right there within the Amazon Music app. Amazon Music. Music, podcasts, audiobooks, all in one app. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported by Viking, committed to exploring the world in comfort.

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20:35This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick, and I'm talking today with John Lovett. After working as a speechwriter in the Obama administration, Lovett co-founded Crooked Media, along with two other White House veterans, Jon Favreau and Tommy Vitor. They're the hosts of Crooked Media's flagship program, Pod Save America, along with Dan Pfeiffer. Let me ask you an Obama question. I came to interview him the morning after he had met with Trump in the White House. We had a long interview. Some of it had to do with his absolute insistence of continuing to talk about the arc of history. It bends, but it moves in one direction.

21:19The other was his real hesitation to or inability to talk about democratic successors. Is that just because he doesn't think he should or he doesn't find anybody capable of inheriting that mantle and going all the way? What do you think Obama's proper role is and do you in your heart of hearts want him to do more? So in terms of successor, right, I think like runs counter to his view of politics for him to sort of step out on the stage and say, this is the person. These are the people, right? Like great candidates aren't chosen. They have to be revealed and made on the campaign trail, right? Like, John Ossoff has been really impressing everybody, myself included, with speeches that are smart and to the point and make an argument and excite people, right?

22:14That's how you prove who follows Obama, right? In terms of him being more involved, I do think it's a double-edged sword. Of course you want Barack Obama campaigning for Democrats in the homestretch. That's what he does do, and he has done. Yes. I think the better question is when he is campaigning, when he is having these moments of reflection, what is he doing that is unavailable to other mainstream Democratic politicians, right? How do you mean? Why is it so much more effective to our mind that we're wondering why this one man won't do more in his ex-presidency? Obviously, he's well-known, right?

22:52That's of value. He's still pretty popular. Why? Right? Why? The Barack Obama style of politics was optimistic. It was hopeful. And it was thoughtful about persuasion, about the people you don't have on board yet. And really thinking about what it is to try to make an agenda that is, on the one hand, big and inspiring to the broad left coalition. Yeah. But also on the merits of the policy and in how you talk about it, sympathetic to the concerns and criticisms that come from independence and sort of the intellectually honest portion of the center right, say. Right. I just think we just don't do that like we used to.

23:28And I think that's what people really are missing. Joe Biden was elected to restore politics post-pandemic, post-Trump, and having two years of a person who was not able really to effectively communicate, and then because we were denied a primary where we could really hash out our differences, we just haven't had a moment in which a bunch of Democrats put their talents on display. We're missing the talent show. We need the swimsuit portion. We need the whole thing. Get out there. And the talent portion. Spin the batons. Do the juggling. Let's go. What is Rahm Emanuel up to? Is he in the race to win?

24:07Is he in the race to make a point? You're slightly lifted your eyebrows there. No, you know, I got in trouble because they, not in trouble. I said that I thought Rahm being in the primaries would be a good thing. And then John and Tommy jokingly said, let's cut that and get that out there. But because actually, I think he understands this, right? which is you can't just lament that people like the left. You can't just lament that people are embracing positions to the left of where you are, right? You have to offer an alternative. And so a campaign in which Rom is defiantly trying to have a debate in which we hash out some of these questions, I think will be valuable, in part because I think he's smart about finding interesting ways and kind of newsmaking ways to talk about policy, but not from the left.

24:54I got into it with him here on this show because of his use of transgender rights, the implication that it's somehow a trivial thing and that we should be, you know, enough already with bathrooms, let's be talking about schoolrooms. And I get this as a rhetorical device, but it seems to me innately cruel. And we have a question from Linda from Buffalo, and she asks, how could we incorporate education about transgender people so that we reduce the fear and the ignorance. And I would continue that. Why is it impossible to have both? Why can't we be discussing education and not just throwing transgender rights out the window?

25:39So let me just say that I'm married to a trans person. Everything about this debate to me is about what is between us and a world in which trans people aren't afraid to go to the bathroom at the airport, where trans people can live openly, be themselves, and trust that they'll be protected by the law, trust that they can get a job, that they can have a flourishing life. And what stands between us in that? We've just lost ground on this issue. We have, right? Why did we backslide? Did people forget what they had learned about trans people? No, there was just a bunch of debates on the topics where the pro-trans side is on the losing end of public opinion.

26:25Why did Democratic politicians in the 2020 primary raise their hands on a bunch of 30-70 issues? Right, why, right? Is it because they truly believed it? No, of course not. Why? Because they didn't trust themselves to be able to make an argument to the base of the Democratic Party to prove who they were enough that they could have a disagreement, right? Americans have questions about trans youth And what happens if a child, you know, early teens, whatever, wants to transition? They're confused about it. They're like, they're worried about it, whatever. Now, you can just concede and maybe, and I think on sports, we basically have.

27:03Or you can say, you know what? I believe trans people deserve to be themselves, to avoid discrimination at work, to be treated with respect and dignity. I believe these decisions should be left up to doctors and parents. And it just isn't something the national government should be coming down from on high and deciding on behalf of states, communities, and families. And you may not agree with me on trans issues. Maybe we have a different point of view. I hope you understand that we're not always gonna see eye to eye. We're not always gonna have the same point of view. But here's what I really wanna talk about.