Mayor Karen Bass on Marines in Los Angeles

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1:34This is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker. Welcome to the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. When Karen Bass was elected mayor of Los Angeles in 2022, she won in part because of a promise to address the city's pervasive and very deep housing crisis. But now there's a different crisis at her doorstep. Los Angeles is very much an immigrant city. According to the census, more than a third of the city is foreign-born. The Trump administration has been targeting L.A. as part of what the president called the largest mass deportation operation in history.

2:18ICE raids have swept up immigrants who are in the U.S. legally and in some cases are American citizens. In June, as protests against ICE developed, Trump sent a military force of thousands of troops, National Guard and even Marines, into Los Angeles, very much against the will of Mayor Bass and the governor, Gavin Newsom. Some have gone home, but some troops are deployed in the city even now. In Los Angeles, a battle has taken shape between a federal government that asserts an absolute mandate and a local government that says we represent our people and will take care of our issues. I spoke recently with Mayor Karen Bass.

3:01Mayor Bass, how are you? Good. Good, good. I'm holding up good. You know, we haven't had any raids in a few days, and so I'm doing just fine. So that's what counts for being good, is not having any fires and not having any raids in a few days. How distorted is that? And you know what? And our men and women are going home. And that's very meaningful to me because to see the National Guard misused. And I think that most people don't understand who the National Guard are. You know, they're part-time. They have lives. Do you talk to people in the National Guard? How do they feel about what they've been given?

3:36I have not personally talked to people this time. I certainly talked to them when they were in the Palisades, you know, during the fires. And we were ever so grateful because they were there for a really long time. Those are deployments when our young people, and they are, you know, young relatively, they're leaving school, they're leaving their families, they're leaving their jobs. I guess what I'm asking are people in the National Guard or in the police force, are they angry about what's going on? Yes. You hear that? Yes, yes. Yes, I know they are resentful because they know they're just props.

4:09I mean, there's a big article in the paper today talking about how they're doing nothing. I mean, at most, remember their assignment, two things. They were guarding a building, two buildings where nothing was happening for days and days. There's 4 ,000 people here, or 2 ,000, whatever the thousands, okay? Meanwhile, they're just at a camp doing nothing, doing absolutely nothing. So you've described your city as being in the midst of a federal takeover. Seizure, yes. Okay. And also you're a sanctuary city. Describe what that's supposed to be and why that conflicts with a federal seizure. Sure. The policies that we have here originated 45 years ago.

4:50And it was during the 80s or before that when there was an influx of immigrants, especially from Central American countries because of the civil wars. And that population, when they came to Los Angeles, then became easy prey for a criminal element to prey on them. And so the Los Angeles Police Department was concerned that this population would not report crimes. And so a policy was put in place that said that the Los Angeles Police Department would not cooperate with immigration enforcement. Now, that policy has been refined over the years, but really, because there was a sense of absolute fear and desperation, policy has been extended.

5:32I mean, you had a few years ago, Governor Abbott sending people here to write from Texas. And then you had the first Trump administration where they were, you know, separating kids and they were doing random stops then, too, but not with not with mask men jumping out and just, you know, arresting people randomly. They weren't doing that. But there was that sense of fear then. I wonder how much communication you've had with the administration. Have you ever gotten a phone call from President Trump or Stephen Miller or Kristi Noem? And, you know, Stephen Miller is an Angeleno, born and raised here, and for some reason has had, I guess, hatred for his city.

6:15And so a lot of people view this as him inflicting revenge on the city of his birth. But I will tell you that, yes, I refer to it as the federal seizure of power from our government, from our governor, taking over the National Guard and deploying them inappropriately. Yes, we had protests here. Yes, at the end of very peaceful protests, there was some random vandalism and violence. Our police department, our sheriff's department had the ability to bring that under control, of which they did. because in the beginning, I told you, the National Guard was just deployed to cover a building. They were not involved in crowd control.

6:59They had absolutely nothing to do with quelling the violence and the vandalism that happened. I think this happened when a largely peaceful protest broke out against ICE in L.A. in June. Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem said this. This is a quote. We're staying here to liberate this city from the socialist and the burdensome leadership that this governor, that this mayor, has placed on this country. Now, what did socialism have to do with this? Well, that's why I said that I don't recognize the secretary anymore. I served with her for eight or ten years in Congress, and that's not the Kristi Noem I knew.

7:42You had a good relationship in Congress? Yes, yes, yes. Really? Tell me about that. Well, I mean, it's not like we were close friends, but we both were consistently in the gym every morning. We'd interact. Chatting it up. Chatting it up and working out. Very cordial relationship. There was never any hostility. She knows who I am. She knows the dedication I had when I was in Congress. And so to refer to our city in that manner. The other thing that the administration did very deliberately was they tried to paint a picture of our city as there was massive civil unrest. Well, we are 500 square miles, and the protests took place in about maybe two square miles?

8:24Mm-hmm. And it was graffiti. The graffiti was terrible from my point of view. I was very upset about that. And also, there was some vandalism that happened. I mean, you know, there was some looting that happened one evening. I imposed a curfew. That curfew brought everything under control. Nevertheless, a spokesperson for DHS said that arresting you, the idea of arresting you, the mayor of Los Angeles, was, quote, on the table. Whatever. I mean, that's— Whatever, said the mayor. Yes. That's the silliness and lack of seriousness. I mean, why on earth would they arrest me? But you're laughing now.

9:07And obviously, this is serious business. As the mayor, as a politician, as somebody who has some sense of what's going on both in her city and in Washington, what is this really about? So I really believe we were a test case. That's why I've described L.A. as a petri dish. They wanted to, on the nation's second largest city, basically teach us a lesson, show that they could come in and do whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted and however they wanted. and they were putting every other city in America on notice. Mess with us will come for you. That is how bullies behave. And that's why I get so angry because after spending the years in Congress that I did, I had a close relationship with our military.

9:57One, because a lot of what I did in Congress was related to foreign policy. And so to see our troops misused like this, to see Marines, you know, deployed in Los Angeles, Marines who were trained to kill foreign enemies overseas. We had no problems here that we could not deal with locally. So, you know, we've, I mean, every city has, talk about a national championship. When the Lakers win, you have mayhem for a day or so. And some, and you have vandalism, I mean, you have those things. So this was Laker Championship Plus. And our local law enforcement could deal with that. There was no citywide disturbance.

10:41Because there was no need for it, then you have to say what was the reason. And the reason is, like I said, I believe they experimented with us. I believe they were putting other cities on notice. And it is just a gross misuse of federal power.

10:59I'm speaking with Karen Bass, the mayor of Los Angeles, and we'll continue in a moment. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour.

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15:40My feet feel as good after a long day of pounding the pavement as they did when I left the apartment. Head over to bombas.com slash radio hour and use code radio hour for 20 % off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash radio hour. Code radio hour at checkout. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. I'm speaking today with Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass. L.A. has been targeted by the Trump administration for weeks following local protests against ICE raids on neighborhoods and businesses. Several thousand people have been arrested in raids since June. The city of Los Angeles has joined a lawsuit filed by the ACLU saying that raids and detentions by the Department of Homeland Security were unconstitutional.

16:29And a federal court issued a temporary restraining order just this month. How many people in Los Angeles have been arrested and even possibly taken elsewhere? Well, this is one of the reasons why we joined the lawsuit, because we don't know how many people. The lawsuit was basically charging this escapade as racial profiling, as an abuse of power, and basically calling on the federal government to stop the random seizure of people. And so that was one of the reasons why we joined the lawsuit is because the people that were detained, number one, we don't know the numbers. They have been denied access to legal counsel.

17:15They have been denied access to their family members. So you literally have situations where a family member disappears, doesn't come home. You can assume maybe they were detained, but you don't even know. Because if they were at a workplace and the workplace was raided, you know that. But if they were walking down the street and, you know, walking while Latino, and they just got snatched and nobody saw them, your family member just doesn't come home. you don't know what's happened to them. You know, I read a story about one park in L.A. where horse-mounted federal agents came in on horseback and they raided the park.

17:51Tell me about what happened there. What park was it and what exactly took place? MacArthur Park. First of all, it is a beautiful park in the center of town, but the park has historically for the last 30 years, off and on has had very serious problems. It's been a focus of mine for drug dealing, for gang involvement, for criminal activity. It's just been real problems. But it is an example of how local law enforcement, community organizations, and elected officials can manage. We have had over a 40 % reduction in violent crime at that park. We've had a major reduction in trafficking of stolen goods.

18:38So we have had a concentrated effort at that park. So I think the reason why they chose to have a show of force in that park was once again, just to show us we're here and we can do whatever we want. Because the sad thing is, is that on that day when the soldiers and they were National Guard, there were, we don't even know the various forces that were there walking through. Do you know they walked through a children's summer camp? That's the side of the park they chose to walk through. The kids had to be ushered inside really quickly because no one wanted the kids to see that show of force. These kids were Latino kids.

19:17I went and talked to a couple of the 7 - and 8-year-olds without prompting from me. The first thing they started talking to me about was their fear of ice and what was going to happen to their family. So that's why they didn't want the kids to see this, because the kids would right away assume that's who it was. So it was a ridiculous show of force. They did nothing while they were there. They pulled guns on health care workers that were in the park trying to help the people who were addicted get into treatment. You've said lately you've been learning about ICE and military actions only via rumor.

19:53Right. That you're not getting any alerts from Washington. and there's no sense of even a trace of cooperation or collegiality. It seems all oppositional. But I have to tell you, though, that I don't think they know. Because when you have masked men driving through the town just stopping periodically, I don't think they know. It doesn't seem to be organized in the sense that we know the cartel is running drugs over here, so let's go surround this. It's random car washes. It's random street vendors. It's random Home Depots. Let me just say a couple of other things. There is the obvious human toll on this in terms of the families, the disruption of families.

20:39But this is a city that is dependent on immigrants. And this is a huge economic blow to our city overall. So obviously, we've been dealing with the devastation from the wildfires. And the statistics, which I think are way underrepresented, say that about 40 % of the workforce in construction are immigrants. I think that's an undercount. When you do a raid near Altadena, which is outside of the city of Los Angeles, but where the fires were devastated, the Eaton fires, when you do raids near a Home Depot and we're trying to get the area rebuilt, this is going to impact our ability to rebuild the city.

21:21Now, the irony of this, I was singing the praises for the administration, which is a controversial political thing to do in my city, okay? What were you singing the Trump administration's praises? I believe in giving credit where credit's due. And one of the reasons why we're on track for the fastest recovery in California history is because the administration deployed a historic number of Army Corps of Engineers. They're weeks away from clearing over 6 ,000 lots. So people are beginning to rebuild now. And if you compare that to other fires, we're months ahead. So you give props to the Trump administration for cooperating there.

22:04Openly. And I will tell you, much to the chagrin of a lot of Angelenos who can't bear that, if you're doing something right, I'm going to tell you. And by the way, I was in constant contact with the administration then. The contact has, you know, pretty much closed off. I will continue. You know, when we get past this, hopefully there'll be more communication. But I'm not going to stop, you know, reaching out and attempting to dialogue with them. And hopefully it will, you know, get better. Now, during the Biden administration, early on, immigration was, in fact, surging in this country. And at a chaotic level, a number of Democratic officials at state and local levels complained to the White House.

22:51Did the influx of migrants generally from Central America cause problems in Los Angeles and what were they? Well, let me just tell you that during those years I was in Congress, I can absolutely emphatically say no, they did not cause problems in the city of Los Angeles. And let me tell you, too, that when Abbott was sending migrants to our city, because we've had such a long history of immigrants coming to the city, we have very strong institutions that work with them, nonprofit community organizations that have been in existence for almost five decades. And so they do have an elaborate network of infrastructure and support that probably a lot of other cities don't have.

23:35And so we were able to deal with people coming in the city. When you look back on it, do you think declaring Los Angeles a sanctuary city, and it's not alone, but do you think declaring sanctuary city for Los Angeles in some way provoked the Trump administration, Stephen Miller, etc.? No, I don't. Again, because it's been a longstanding policy here that has been updated on numerous occasions. And my first job as mayor is to protect Angelenos. And I will tell you that people were feeling extremely vulnerable, terrorized, afraid when he was reelected because of what happened in the first administration.

24:18And they were crying out for protection. Now, again, the protection was already there. That policy had been in place in decades. So it was, you know, new, improved, changed a little bit in collaboration with community members. But my first job is to protect my city. How do you feel about the fact that Trump has all but shut down immigration on the southern border? Well, you know, again, I think in some economies, some local economies, it has impact. You know that immigration is critical to our economic vitality in the country. Now, we were already suffering before the raids, a downturn in our economy from other tactics and strategies of the administration, most notably the tariffs.

25:07Are they on? Are they off? We have 40 percent, 40 percent of the nation's goods come through our ports in Los Angeles. We have the largest port in the Western Hemisphere. So we were already suffering for an economic downturn. The last thing we needed was to scare an incredibly significant percentage of our workforce from going to work. the president of the United States may deny it or think it's a Chinese conspiracy of some kind, but climate change is a reality, as you've only learned through the most bitter, bitter experience in Los Angeles. And yet it's very hard for cities or municipalities, states, whole countries to reorder themselves radically enough to prevent things like the fires you've just been through.

26:01The reality of your topography, your weather, scale of those houses are such that I worry, and I'm sure you worry profoundly, that this is going to happen again. Right. Yes, that's absolutely right. You know, one thing I'm very proud of being an Angeleno and a Californian is that climate change is not controversial. Everybody understands, embraces, but then again, you have these weather events that as a person born and raised here, I mean, what do I know about hurricanes? I know earthquakes, but what do I know about hurricanes? And the idea that here in January we had hurricane strength winds and no water.