The Cartoonist Liana Finck Picks Three Favorite Children’s Books

0:00This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over$900 on average. Pop over to Progressive.com, answer some questions, and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99 % of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit Progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates National average 12-month savings of$946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025 Potential savings will vary WNYC Studios is supported by Quince Summer was built for relaxing and I'm ready to do just that right down to my wardrobe That means I'm reaching for easy elevated essentials from Quince time and time again for beautiful pieces that are a delight to wear Think 100 % European linen pants and shirts.

0:58So breathable, so effortless to throw on, and starting at just$34. And the softest tees ever. You'll want to live in them all day. And if you need a little something extra at night, their lightweight cotton sweaters are perfect for just the right amount of cozy. And even better, everything at Quinz is priced 50 % to 80 % less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for quality material and expert construction, not brand markup. And Quinz goes way beyond clothing. Quince has incredible options for everything from home goods to travel to skincare and supplements.

1:28And their jewelry? I have been wearing the Quince Huggy Hoops with absolutely everything. Such a fun little pop of elegance that works everywhere from the boardroom to the boardwalk. Make your summer wardrobe easier. Go to quince.com slash radio hour for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too. That's quince.com slash radio hour for free shipping and 365-day returns. Do you have a business idea? Well, Shopify is here to take that little light bulb going off above your head right now and turn it into reality. Everything you need to start selling is included and ready to go from day one.

2:10I'm cartoonist Jason Adam Katzenstein, and I thought I was intimidated by anything having to do with business and or the Internet. it. But Shopify is so simple and intuitive that even a Luddite scribbler like me found my way around. I click start my trial and I see these friendly little pop-up buttons, add your first product, choose your store design, and then over in the corner, ask anything dot dot dot. So I do, I type in prints because that's what I want to sell. And I get all these great questions immediately. What's the image slash artwork? I can describe it or I can just upload an image, A dream.

2:46Things like Shopify checkout make it easy for customers to pay you, and when they return, their details are already saved. One tap and they're done. With Shopify handling setup and checkout, you have time to focus on the stuff that actually matters. With Shopify, nothing stands between your idea and a real business. So go make it one. Start your free trial at shopify.com slash newyorker. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker.

3:22This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. Liana Fink is a cartoonist who contributes to The New Yorker. She's also the author of the graphic memoir Passing for Human and other books. Her work has a quality of being somehow whimsical and at the same time kind of profound. Like many of her great forebearers at the magazine, she's also done children's books. Earlier this year, Liana published a book called Mixed Feelings that explores, well, just that, the ways that our emotions sometimes confuse us. And that's something that happens if you're four or you're 64. I asked Liana Fink to join me and talk about some of the illustrators who have inspired her over time.

4:06Liana, you've been contributing amazing work, amazing cartoons to the magazine for a decade now, which seems hard to believe. And you've published children's books of your own. What's the overlap between cartoons for adults and children's books, if any? I think the children's book as we know it was kind of invented by an editor at Harper & Row named Ursula Nordstrom. She published E.B. White. these books just kind of like get to the heart of things. I would compare them to fairy tales. Right. Children's books are very often like fables. I think we can say that that's the root of children's books is Aesop's fables or things like that.

4:48They had a moral lesson. Is that still the case in books that you're reading with your kids? More so. Yeah. I would say more lesson. And we're a lot savvier about like psychology now. So in some ways the books are a lot more sophisticated and in other ways they're less weird and that's a little bit sad. I think maybe the first Pat the Bunny and Good Night Moon is the book I think I've read most in my life. Yeah, it's perfect. I think it's possible that I've read that thousands of times to various kids of mine. How has Becoming a Mother changed your relationship to what you think makes a good kids' book?

5:33It has brought me back to the root of, like, why I love art. Kids' books were my first experience of art. They're really why I do what I do. I loved them. I think I stopped loving them when it stopped being socially appropriate. But, like, it's weird when you're a drawing person to stop looking at kids' books because that's the main, like one of the real venues for people to draw stories. And that's what I do. It's really different from fine art and painting and sculpture and stuff. So it's given me an excuse to get back to basics. And I'm also watching my kid and watching what he likes. And I'm realizing it's so much simpler than like what I try to do as an artist.

6:18I'm like always trying to go for like the real reach. Well, walk us through your selections. My understanding is that your first is by William Stig, who I even knew a little bit when I started as editor. So tell me about the William Stig book that you brought. I think it's one of the first ones he published. It's also kind of a deep cut. I was really debating bringing Sylvester and the Magic Pebble, which is probably the first William Stig book I would recommend, but I'm assuming you've all read it. So I brought one called CDB that's kind of a little bit for kids and a little bit for grownups.

6:51And it's a book written in kind of puzzles where each word is represented by a letter. So he only says things that can be written just as letters. So the phrase C the B is written as the letters C, D, and B. And then he illustrates them with these kind of anarchic, super emotional, super simple drawings that are not a reach. Like he always stayed true to like the most direct kind of drawing. And I think that's why he made such a good kids book author, which is something he became like long after he'd been making cartoons for decades. So those came much later. Yeah. He was in his late fifties, I think when he started doing these, these storybooks and there's another puzzle in the book.

7:40It's I envy you and it's spelled I the letter N dash the letter V the letter U. And it's a picture of a plaintive-looking boy talking to a much more confident, slightly older-looking boy who is eating a lollipop. And one nice thing about this book and Stieg's work in general is that he doesn't talk down to children. He uses big words. He talks about complex things. So envy probably isn't a word you would normally see in a children's book. and he's boiling it down to make it so, so simple and so, like, essential and to be something a child could absolutely relate to. Next up is another alphabet-based book, and this one is by another artist that I adore and who's published quite a lot in The New Yorker, Mara Kallman.

8:34Tell me about this book. So this is called What Pete Ate from A to Z, and it's autobiographical in that it's about a dog named Pete who is Myra Kelman's dog. I brought this book because I think Myra Kelman might be my favorite kids' book author and illustrator. And the first book that I read when I was four, when I thought I really, like this is my favorite thing in the world and I want to do this, was another book by her called Sayonara, Mrs. Cackleman. And I think it had come out that year. It was new and it's so punk rock and it's so wild. Now, you know or knew Myra Coleman. You were an intern for her?

9:17Yeah. So I wrote both her and Roz Chast letters when I was like 16. I think I wrote to Roz first and that began like the most meaningful correspondence in my life. But I wrote to Myra a little bit later, and she let me come be her intern. What does an intern for an artist do? She had me organize her moss collection and walk Pete. I'm speaking with Liana Fink. More in a moment.

9:51WNYC Studios is supported by Monarch. When I think about my relationship to money, the phrase that comes to mind is superstitious dread. As a freelancer, my income is, shall we say, variable, and that can be scary. My financial education as a child was mostly limited to my parents yelling about it, so as with most scary, unpleasant concepts, my lifelong tactic has been avoidance. I'm aware that this is no way for a grown-up to act, and that's why Monarch has been a game-changer. Monarch helps me face my fears by putting all my income and spending information into one place and making that information easy to digest, even for me.

10:24The diagrams make it crystal clear where my money is going. It really demystifies the scary things like setting financial goals and budgets. I can ask his AI assistant questions like, can I afford this vacation or this fancy jar of face cream? It's like having a financial advisor in my pocket, and that's helped me reach my most important financial goal of all, banishing the fear and getting my money on track. Write your own money story with Monarch. Use code NEWYORKER at MONARCH.COM to get your first year of Monarch Core half off at just$50. That's 50 % off your first year at MONARCH.COM with code NEWYORKER.

10:57WNYC Studios is supported by Wayfair. Your living space is your sanctuary, and you want it to feel like an expression of you, right? But unless you're working with an unlimited budget, sometimes that's easier said than done. And that's why I love Wayfair. I don't think there's a room in my house that doesn't have a little something from Wayfair. With their breathtaking selection, shockingly affordable prices, and incredibly easy delivery process, making MySpace feel like me was a snap. Wayfair offers everything you need for your home, yard, or office. Seating, grills, appliances, storage, lighting, rugs, decor, and so much more.

11:30And if working at Allen Key isn't your thing, they can handle delivery, installation, and assembly. You just pick what you want and they deal with the rest. With over 20 million five-star reviews, you can shop with confidence. See real customers, real homes, real feedback before anything hits your cart. Especially in the summer months, my porch is truly my happy place. I like to have my coffee in the cotton weave chair hammock and then read for a bit on the gorgeous wooden porch swing. Both Wayfair finds. Do I sleep in a Wayfair bed frame at night? Actually, I do. And I'm not mad about it. Ready to upgrade your home for way less?

12:00Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home and get your space ready for less. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com. Wayfair, every style, every home. I'm Emily Flake, cartoonist at The New Yorker. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported by Bombas. Summer's here, and we are living for all things outdoors. Whether your thing is jogging, heading to the beach, or grilling in front of your stoop, Bombas makes your comfiest summer staples so you can make the most out of all your summer plans. They've got a whole line of pro-level, sports-specific socks for golf, yoga, the gym, and socks for every kind of runner.

12:34I personally do not run if I can help it, but I walk everywhere. And if I don't get my 10 ,000 steps in, my phone will yell at me. These socks are so soft and cushioned right where I need it, whether I'm doing a power saunter in the park or just running a million errands. Plus, they're airy, sweat-wicking. My feet feel as good after a long day of pounding the pavement as they did when I left the apartment. Head over to bombas.com slash radio hour and use code radio hour for 20 % off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash radio hour. Code radio hour at checkout. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported by Mint Mobile.

13:08There are things in life that you don't want to be transparent, like your swimsuit or your search history. But when it comes to your wireless bill, transparency is everything. That's why Mint Mobile's wireless plans have no gimmicks and no gotchas. Just high-speed data and reliable coverage on the T-Mobile 5G network. And right now, all plans are$15 per month, even unlimited. Choose from three, six, or 12-month plans and say goodbye to a monthly bill. To get your new wireless plan for just$15 a month, go to mintmobile.com slash NY Radio Hour. That's mintmobile.com slash NY Radio Hour. That's it.

13:40There's no catch. Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for 12 months. Plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. Includes up to 20 gigabyte hotspot. Capable device required. Availability, speed, and coverage varies. See MintMobile.com.

14:06Now, here's one that's been around for a while. Tell Me Mitzi. What do you love about this? Yeah, Tell Me a Mitzi. The motif in this book is that there's a little girl named Martha living in then-modern times, and she says to her parents, Tell Me a Mitzi. And then they tell her a story about a little girl named Mitzi who's growing up, I want to say, in the 40s or 50s. And this is a collaboration between? Laurie Siegel wrote it, and Harriet Pincus illustrated it. But Laurie Siegel, everyone needs to know as a writer-writer. She was a child of the Holocaust, born in Vienna, I think. And Laurie Siegel wrote for The New Yorker pretty frequently and died within the last year or so.

14:50A year ago, in October, yeah. And here's a little bit from the first story in Tell Me and Mitzi that I really like. The doorman helped Mitzi take the stroller down the steps, and Mitzi pushed Jacob to the corner of the street and called, Taxi! A taxi stopped, and the driver got out and came around to their side. He lifted Jacob out of the stroller and put him in the back seat and lifted Mitzi in and folded up the stroller and put it in the empty front seat and walked around to his side and got in and said, Where to? Grandma and Grandpa's house, please, said Mitzi. Where do they live? asked the driver.

15:27I don't know, said Mitzi. So the driver got out and came around to the other side and took the stroller from the front seat and unfolded it on the sidewalk and took Jacob out and put him in the stroller and took Mitzi out and put her on the sidewalk and walked around to his side and got in and drove away. So on the first page, the words are next to a full-page image of Mitzi walking out of her building, and she's pushing this stroller, and she's passing all these kids playing on the street, and she's wearing this iconic snowsuit with purple with orange stars on it that I remember so well from when I was a kid.

16:08And everything's just so, like, a little cabbage batch doll ugly and also just so appealing and so delicious. And I think Lori Siegel is really wise. She was a mother. And I think she knew that words are just, like, comforting to kids. And she wrote, I think she intentionally made this story a little bit tedious. There's a ton of tedious detail. And I think it's really soothing for kids. But I still love these pictures a lot. And as an adult, the things I love in these illustrations are the same things I loved as a kid. And that's so interesting. Like, I think when we look at pictures, it brings us back to exactly who we were when we were kids, which is magic.

16:56Do you think cartoons, which began, you know, in satirical magazines and probably on cave walls will last forever? Or is it a form that's challenged by the winnowing of magazines and the gigantic growth of the Internet? it it's gonna last forever um even if we're doing it secretly i think it goes so deep it's it's interesting like people like in the the inspirational moment that we were in recently maybe still are i don't know people would be like why should everyone draw like that's a question i would get asked and i'd be like not everyone should draw that's ridiculous like everyone like Everyone's different.

17:40I should draw. But I'm kind of changing my mind. I think it's like so essential. I think it's very similar to music. It's just like something that comes out of us. Liana Fink, thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Liana Fink's illustrated books include Mixed Feelings and Questions Without Answers. You can find some of her cartoons at newyorker.com and you can subscribe to The New Yorker there as well. newyorker.com. I'm David Remnick, and thanks for joining us today. See you next time.

18:18The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by Meryl Garbus of Tune Yards, with additional music by Louis Mitchell and Jared Paul. This episode was produced by Max Balton, Adam Howard, David Krasnow, Jeffrey Masters, Louis Mitchell, Jared Paul, and Ursula Sommer. With guidance from Emily Botin and assistance from Michael May, David Gable, Alex Barish, Victor Guan, and Alejandra Deckett. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Cherena Endowment Fund.

19:01On Big Lives, we take a single cultural icon. People like Jane Fonda, George Michael, Little Richard. And we pull apart the story behind the image. And we do this by digging through the BBC's vast archives. Discovering forgotten interviews that change exactly how we see these giants of our culture. We're here for the messy, the brilliant, the human version of our heroes. I'm Emmanuel Jochi. I'm Kai Wright. And this is Big Lives. Listen to Big Lives wherever you get your podcasts.