The N.B.A. Legend Steve Kerr

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1:09This is a moment of growing urgency. Families around the world are facing widening gaps in health care and nutrition, but solutions are within reach. Just 75 cents can provide treatment for neglected tropical diseases, and$2 can protect a child's sight and health. For a limited time, donations are being matched, helping expand that impact. Learn more at HelenKellerINTL.org. The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co-production of WNYC and The New Yorker. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. Basketball fans were first introduced to Steve Kerr as a three-point shooting specialist for the Chicago Bulls during the 90s and their championship runs.

1:56Playing alongside Michael Jordan, Kerr was by no means the star of the Bulls, but he still holds the record for career three-point percentage. It's in coaching that Kerr has come to the fore in the NBA. Over 12 years, he's led the Golden State Warriors to four titles and a record 73-win season in 2016. Still a remarkable record. He coached the men's Olympic team in 2024 that took home a gold medal. Kerr has also used his platform at times to wade into politics. He spoke at the Democratic National Convention in 2024, and his name comes up sometimes in conversations about candidates for higher office.

2:38Charles Bethea, who's a staff writer at The New Yorker, went to see Steve Kerr the other day just after his team, the Warriors, finished their season. So there's some backstory to my meeting Steve. Back in 2018, I actually spent a couple days with his mother in the Pacific Palisades. I'd gone to watch her teach a class called Perceptions of the U.S. Abroad. And rather than stay in a pricey hotel nearby, She said, why don't you just come stay with me? And I showed up and she put me in Steve's room, which had mostly been stripped of the markings of adolescent Steve, though I did find a few photographs in a closet of him.

3:18So I met Steve for the first time in San Francisco and we had lunch and then we went and sat down in his office. All right, so thank you very much for doing this. I don't typically sleep in the childhood bedroom of an interview subject before talking to him. This is a first for me. Your mother, as you know, Ann was kind enough to put me up in 2018. I wrote a story about her for the magazine about her class at UCLA, Perceptions of the U.S. Abroad. Got to know her, became a big fan of her. And as she says, I love this line, the mother of two PhDs, an MBA, and an NBA, which is you. That's right. That's her line.

3:59Yeah, it's a great line. And so you were born in Beirut. You spent time in Cairo as well in your childhood, but you spent most of your formative adolescent years in the Palisades? Yeah, mostly in the Palisades with intermittent sabbaticals from my dad. We spent time in, let's see, a year in Aix-en-Provence in the south of France when I was in kindergarten.

4:27Three years in Cairo, so sixth grade and then back to LA and then we went back to Cairo, ninth and 10th grade, my dad was doing research and writing a book and, um, teaching at the American university in Cairo. And, um, so most of the time was in the Palisades, but with these, uh, periodic journeys overseas. So, but what, what was it like for you growing up in, in Cairo and Beirut? Was there a basketball culture in either place or what were you interested in when you were living in those places? So, yeah, born in Beirut, but I only spent the first year, a year and a half or two years of my life there.

5:09So Beirut, no, but Cairo, I went to an American school called Cairo American College. I still have great friends from there who I've stayed in touch with. We didn't have a gym. We had an outdoor court. And for ninth and tenth grades, I played on the school team. Did you dominate? I did pretty well. And ninth and tenth grades would have been like 1979, 1980, 81. No gyms in the entire country of Egypt. No basketball gyms. So every one of our games was played outdoors. But we played on dirt courts. And to be on the team and to be traveling around Cairo playing on these outdoor courts was just crazy when you look back and think about it now.

5:58Right. When you got used to, I guess, judging the wind, which you don't have to do when you're playing indoors. And the pebbles that were on the dirt courts, you know, avoiding. It was like later on I had to deal with the gaps in the floor at the Boston Garden. So those dirt courts in Cairo helped prepare me for that. You mentioned your dad. So he was assassinated in 1984 in Beirut by the Islamic Jihad organization. He was there as president of the American University of Beirut. And in that role, as I understand it, he was very much trying to foster cross-cultural respect, understanding, knowledge, right?

6:32Yeah. And so there was an irony, of course, a tragic one in his killing. The time around your father's death, you were at the University of Arizona, correct? And as I understand it, your teammates wore black armbands after his death in solidarity. How did basketball factor or function in your grieving process? Was it part of how you grieved? Was it a distraction from grief? It was literally part of how I grieved. I went to practice the next day. I found out about my dad's death from a phone call from a university colleague of his at 3 a.m. And it was, you know, the worst moment of my life, the most shocking.

7:15Even though I knew the danger in Beirut, we just always thought my dad was so well-respected there. Had so many Arabic friends. He spoke fluent Arabic. He was fostering goodwill between America and Lebanon. He, you know, was the victim of political terrorism, kind of, you know, near the very beginning of this current era of Islamic extremist terrorism and animosity towards America. When did you realize realistically you could play in the NBA? When did that become a reality for you? Maybe my senior year at Arizona. We had a great team. We made the Final Four.

7:58Maybe that year I started to dream a little bit that maybe I could sneak into the NBA for a couple years, have a cup of coffee, make a team, and be able to tell my kids I played in the NBA. Right, you touched the court. Yeah, like I thought maybe, maybe. But it wasn't until my senior year that I even allowed myself to think about that. What role did you play on that Arizona team? when I got there as a freshman um it was good fortune coach Olson coach Lute Olson was a legend he'd come from Iowa and he took the Arizona job and had to rebuild it from scratch it was a terrible basketball program and and it's the only reason I was there because my sense of Arizona I wasn't watching I'm a little younger than you I wasn't watching then but my sense when I started following basketball is Arizona's a powerhouse that's right right so this was pre-powerhouse this was the whole reason Arizona is a powerhouse now is because of Coach Olson he got there and he turned it around literally in one year my sophomore year we made the NCAA tournament my fifth year my senior year we made the final four and I was lucky enough to be part of it for five years and that was that was the experience that paved my entire basketball career You end up, after playing for a few other teams, you end up on the Bulls.

9:20Most of our listeners are familiar with the 90s Bulls, I think. What was your role on that team? Until that point, I played for three different teams. I was bouncing around. I was good enough to survive, but not good enough to thrive. And I was able to thrive in Chicago based on the set of circumstances, ultimately playing next to Michael Jordan and feeding off of him because he attracted so much attention. And when necessary, roughing him up and practice a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, beating him up a little bit. Your mother described that to me as you rubbing elbows a bit, which is one of her great euphemisms.

9:55Rubbing elbows, yeah. I like to say I hit him in the fist with my eye, you know, something like that. And the game clock. It is Michael Jordan time. Scotty Pippen looking, looking for Michael Jordan.

10:23He possessed an incredible suite of skills that made him great, but do you feel like any of those get short shrift when people remember him? Anything in particular about him? I mean, I think the younger generation, because they've watched LeBron automatically, says LeBron is the greatest player ever. and the Jordan people who watched the game back then all say Jordan's the greatest ever, and it's just human nature. I think they're very different players, really. Can you distill that for our audience a little bit? Yeah, I think LeBron is a better passer, more of a point forward. I've always thought he was the point forward of every team he was on, And his brilliance doesn't lie in the same skill set that Michaels did.

11:13It lies in more of a kind of a holistic game where he just – he dominates the game with his pace and his athleticism and his passing. And it's ironic, but like I've always felt scoring is secondary for LeBron, but he's the greatest scorer in the history of the NBA. Incidentally. Yeah, incidentally, he became the best scorer of all time. And some of that is longevity. But as part of his greatness, he's available every single night. He's a machine. I mean, I think he's literally the greatest athlete on the face of the planet. And in the course of human history, I think LeBron James is the greatest athlete of all time.

11:54Playing with Michael, I saw the killer instinct, the killer mentality, the emotional dominance he had over not only the other team, the officials, the entire arena. He had a dominance about him that I don't see with LeBron. So they're very different. And when I say that, I'm talking about the emotional part of it. I think everybody came into a series against Michael knowing they were going to lose. And that's different. That's just very, I mean, there's never been anybody like that. Maybe Bill Russell was like that. But in my lifetime, I've never felt the same way on a basketball floor as I did with Michael.

12:40And so the fact that they're such different players, I think they're the two best players of all time. But I think they're very different players. You're starting a team from scratch. I'll take them both. Oh, man, I thought I could trap you in that one. Nope, I'm taking them both. I thought I could trap you. And by the way, Steph's on that team, too. You played an era that was famously physical. Charles Oakley, Bill Lambier, they were, I guess, in their latter stages of their careers, but they were still playing when you were playing in the league. Where do you land on the question of how today's stars like LeBron would handle the physicality?

13:11Oh, LeBron would handle it fine. Yeah, yeah. It was really a different game. when people mention the physicality a lot of that just had has to do with the way the game was played it used to be a low post game you throw the ball into the big guy and that's where the battles all happen now the battles all happen on the perimeter and it's a game of pace and space so back then teams didn't spread you out with three-point shooting so the the the game was played in a tighter circle and there was just naturally a lot more contact. But I think also back then we weren't nearly as concerned with like too much physicality as a league.

13:58You know, guys would literally punch each other and stay in the game back then until a certain point. and we got smarter you know and so I think the game today is overall it's faster and it's more skilled than ever and while it's less physical that that physicality that the difference in the physicality has more to do with the style of play and the fact that the league just knows people throwing punches at each other might work for hockey but it doesn't work for basketball it's Not good business for us. We've got UFC and we've got hockey. Yeah, yeah. Warriors coach Steve Kerr with the New Yorkers' Charles Bethea.

14:39We'll continue in just a moment. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour.

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18:34This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. Now let's continue our conversation with the veteran NBA player and coach Steve Kerr. He's speaking with our reporter Charles Bethea. Kerr was born in Beirut, the son of an academic, Malcolm Kerr. Malcolm Kerr was serving as president of the American University in Beirut when he was tragically assassinated in 1984 by pro-Iran militants. Kerr's upbringing and losing his father to political violence led him to an interest in politics. And he's not been afraid to speak his mind about the state of our country, even while coaching in the National Basketball Association and even if that means getting into a spat with Donald Trump.

19:19You've been refreshingly willing to speak about politics over the years. The day after Trump's first election in 2016, you delivered what you called a rant at a Warriors press conference, I believe. You described your disgust and disappointment in the result. You referenced a players meeting you had to talk about it. That was a while ago now and plenty has happened since. But without naming names, can you share anything you heard in the meeting? I don't remember, but I do remember in the early days of his presidency as he was establishing this new tone of communication that we were going to have in this country.

19:55I was so disgusted that I didn't hold back from showing my disgust and expressing my disgust. I think I've learned that I needed to be better in terms of representing our organization in a way that I could still let my feelings be known but not get too personal because I'm representing a large group of people not only for our organization but our fans too. You called him a blowhard, ill-suited to the office. Buffoon, I think, might have made his way in there. So those kinds of direct comments. Can you be specific about what you find most troubling about his leadership or his approach to leadership?

20:40Boy, I think it's the approach. I think what really got me was the debates with Hillary where he stalked her from behind. It was so shocking. And there was a live audience that reminded me like the Jerry Springer show or something. It all I could think of was all that stuff, you know, that started on TV with the talk shows like the sensationalized TV. It's now it's all foreshadowing. Yeah. Yeah. It's now entered our political world. And and it was just so shocking because in my life up until that time, there had been a sense of decorum that was expected. You know, Reagan and Tip O 'Neill were really good friends.

21:22They went to lunch every week, Democratic Speaker of the House, Republican president, knowing they had to work together to get stuff done. That was politics. There was a decorum. There was a sense of decency that people were watching, that we wanted our country to embody a certain dignity. That was embodied in politics, regardless of policy, right, and regardless of even corruption. Like, yes, there was corruption. There's been corruption from the beginning of mankind. But like that stuff would be dealt with. And so we lost that. I don't think it's all Trump's fault. I think it was happening before Trump, the forces in social media, the forces in our country, the division.

22:11He's a symptom, in other words, not a root cause. Yeah, I think he's a symptom, but he definitely has, you know, taken advantage of that. to some extent, to gain power and to consolidate power. And he's using it to drive a wedge between all of us. And he's not the only one who's done that, but he's the president. He's got the most power. How have you chosen when you have chosen to speak out? How have you chosen what moments to choose? I just try to do it wisely. As I said, early in his first tenure, I probably went overboard. As judged by how? By some of the, like, you know, calling the president a buffoon.

22:53I kind of regret that, even though I felt it in my heart. And even though a lot of people agreed with me, I just, I don't think it was the right approach. Because it's a low road or because? Because I am representing the Gold State Warriors. I think it's better to point out policy decisions, but also American values, values in general. Like, I think we've kind of lost our way. That's not news, but it's more valuable to point out why we've lost our way and what's wrong with the things that he does rather than calling him a name. You play golf. Your mother, I think, she's my source here, obviously, a lot of this stuff.

23:37She told me you played golf with Obama. And can you share anything about, I mean, obviously he loves the NBA. He loves basketball, plays basketball a bit. What was he interested in talking about just topically with you? And what stood out for you? Well, I wanted to talk about Middle East, and he wanted to talk about the NBA. And so we ended up talking about both. It was his 60th birthday. He brought a group of friends to Monterey to play golf. And we have a mutual friend, Tom Friedman, the columnist for the New York Times. He was a Beirut bureau chief, right? That's right. When you were there.

24:12Yeah, he was like 27 years old. And he became friends with my dad as a bureau chief. And so Tom has remained a family friend ever since. Whenever I go to Washington, we get together and have breakfast. And I read all of his stuff. And I think the world of him. And he's friends with Obama. So they played golf all week, and I think they kept a spot open for one guest, one visitor every day, and I got to join and play Pebble Beach. Where did you stack up in terms of the results? Well, there's a handicap system. I don't know much about golf. But it was amazing. It was one of the thrills of my life to play Pebble Beach with President Obama.

24:58So I got to ask him a lot about his worldview, and he got to ask me a lot about the NBA. He loves basketball. And then we had dinner afterwards. So it was really like a full day and one of the best experiences of my life. I remember seeing your remarks after the Uvalde school shootings, 2022. This was, I think, during a press conference during the finals. and you said that our country was being held hostage by senators who wouldn't vote for widely popular common sense gun reform. I'm tired. I'm so tired of getting up here and offering condolences to the devastated families that are out there. I'm so tired of the, excuse me, I'm sorry.

25:47I'm tired of the moments of silence. Enough. And I was thinking as I saw that first, This is what informed and impassioned advocacy looks like. And second, that you might have a future in politics if you wanted one, which I don't think you've ever suggested that you do. But just to ask you again, have you considered it? You are, it seems like, at a crossroads right now potentially, right? Your contract has run out. You're making decisions over the next few weeks. I'm not suggesting you're going to jump into the governor's race in California. But, you know, I mean, you could be popular if you chose to use your platform.