Beautiful Boy: A Father's Heartache - An Addict Son

16 Sep 2025 · 39 min · 24 chapters

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In short

A father’s and son’s accounts of crystal meth addiction, family denial, public storytelling, relapse, and recovery; includes other parents’ losses and advice for families.

Guests

David Sheff, award-winning journalist and author of Beautiful Boy; he wrote after a 2005 New York Times magazine article about helping his son Nick. Nick Sheff, author of Tweak: Growing Up on Methamphetamines; he describes his addiction starting in childhood and escalating to meth, homelessness, and multiple rehabs.

Key claims

Parents often deny addiction because it’s too painful; “mixed messages” about drugs confuse kids; relapse is part of treatment and can be fatal; addiction is a “family disease”; honesty and vulnerability are necessary for recovery.

Notable examples

Nick smoking marijuana at 12; meth at 18; sharing a joint with Nick; rehab five times; street use in San Francisco’s Tenderloin; Nick’s near-death on life support; David’s regret and obsession; Gordon and Karen Seidenberg’s son Noah’s death after repeated hospitalizations; Maria’s turnaround via prison and daily postcards.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

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David Sheff's Heartbreak

0:52 to 1:50

David Sheff shares his story of a father's struggle with his son's addiction.

“You are listening to The Oprah Winfrey Show, the podcast.”

Going Public with Pain

1:50 to 2:34

David discusses the decision to publicly share his son's struggles with addiction.

“Starbucks chooses really good books, too, I must say.”

Denial and Realization

2:34 to 3:39

David reflects on his denial about Nick's drug use and the painful realization of addiction.

“Yeah, and even for that, it was sort of, you know, how are we going to go public with this, expose our family, my son, to such scrutiny?”

Nick's Descent into Addiction

3:39 to 5:00

David narrates the early signs of Nick's drug use and the subsequent struggles.

“Well, as a little boy, David's son, Nick, seemed to have it all, a winning personality and a bright future.”

The Turning Point

5:00 to 6:10

David recounts the moment methamphetamine became a part of Nick's life.

“And it was partly because it felt like a betrayal of our trust.”

Mixed Messages and Regrets

6:10 to 8:06

David shares his regrets about trying to connect with Nick through drug use.

“Also, you know, I got these mixed messages from the teachers, even.”

The Complexity of Addiction

8:06 to 9:15

Discussion on the influence of parental drug use on addiction.

“And I watched my college roommate, you know, at 2 o 'clock in the morning, I was the one who would say, listen, I got school in the morning.”

Nick's Perspective on Addiction

9:15 to 11:18

Nick shares his feelings about his father's book and the impact of his addiction.

“They bring these athletes to schools now or other, you know, people who've done well, and they say, you know, don't use drugs.”

Understanding the Appeal of Drugs

11:18 to 12:20

Nick describes his early experiences with alcohol and the appeal of using substances.

“And I think that's part of the reason that I kept using drugs, you know, was to blot out that pain or whatever.”

The Role of Writing in Recovery

12:20 to 13:26

Nick discusses how journaling helped him cope with addiction and document his experiences.

“Well, Nick has written his own version of this story in his new memoir.”
Show all 24 chapters

Rehabilitation Journey

13:26 to 14:03

Nick reflects on his multiple rehab experiences and the beginnings of understanding his addiction.

“I mean, I just actually, my dad pulled out some when I was back home, you know, this last weekend.”

Understanding Addiction and Denial

14:03 to 15:22

Explores the initial denial of addiction and the realization of its impact.

“I mean, I, well, I mean, I guess, obviously, I didn't want to become a drug addict, you know?”

The Highs and Lows of Substance Use

15:23 to 17:28

Describes the initial euphoria from drugs and the subsequent crashes.

“When you read his book, are you surprised at how in denial he was?”

Descent into Addiction

17:29 to 20:05

Covers the progression of addiction and the drastic measures taken to sustain it.

“But I was never feeling really euphoric like I had.”

The Pain of a Parent

20:06 to 22:39

Highlights a father's anguish as he learns about his son's struggles with addiction.

“walked out of the hospital, and it was another one of the many times that I broke down just crying because it seemed so hopeless.”

The Cycle of Addiction and Relapse

22:40 to 24:19

Discusses the reality that relapse is often part of the recovery process.

“And I waited, and thank God, you know, thank God.”

Family Dynamics and Addiction

24:20 to 27:38

Explores the impact of addiction on family relationships and responsibilities.

“And I even justified it, because I thought, how could I not?”

Reflections on Past Choices

27:39 to 28:00

Contemplates the lessons learned from addiction and the importance of self-acceptance.

“Daisy is the age that you were when you started doing alcohol.”

Facing Addiction: Personal Reflections

28:00 to 29:26

Learn about the internal battles of addiction and self-acceptance.

“Like, I felt like if I looked inside of myself, I would see that I was just, like, this ugly, disgusting, you know, worthless person, you know?”

The Story of Noah: A Mother's Heartache

29:26 to 32:10

Discover the tragic story of Noah and the impact of addiction on families.

“Yeah, I mean, that's all it is, is that it's this disease, I guess, of addiction, you know.”

Realizations of Grief and Relief

32:10 to 34:25

Explore the complex emotions of grieving a loved one lost to addiction.

“So, Gordon, did you see yourself in this story?”

Letters of Love: A Mother's Postcards

34:25 to 35:08

Learn about a mother's creative way to support her incarcerated daughter.

“Kathleen stood by as her addicted daughter went to prison.”

The Journey to Recovery

35:08 to 37:10

Hear about the struggles and successes in overcoming addiction.

“And I wanted her to know that we love her no matter what she does or where she is.”

The Power of Authenticity in Recovery

37:10 to 38:43

Understand the importance of honesty and vulnerability in healing.

“is going to land me right back to where I was.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00Through 25 seasons, 4 ,561 episodes, I believe The Oprah Winfrey Show is one of the greatest classrooms in the world. I really never thought of it that way. The aha moments, the breakthroughs, the LOLs, the connections, the occasional ugly cry. I miss him so terribly. I miss him every single minute. The moments that mattered. Maddie! The eye-opening life lessons. Never allow them to take you somewhere else. I'm bringing them back. It's time to open the vault. I've personally chosen these classic episodes to share with you again. Every single person you ever will meet shares that common desire.

0:45They want to know, do you see me? Do you hear me? Does what I say mean anything to you? You are listening to The Oprah Winfrey Show, the podcast. It is a painful secret millions of families are too ashamed to talk about, but one father has come forward to share the heartbreak and the agony of loving a child on a path of total self-destruction. In 2005, David Sheff, an award-winning journalist, revealed his heart-wrenching struggle to help his son Nick survive and overcome a ravaging crystal meth addiction. And he was not alone. His article, published in The New York Times magazine, drew an overwhelming response from parents of addicts grateful that someone had finally given them a voice.

1:34Beautiful Boy, his new book, delves deeper into the devastation of Nick's drug abuse and its crippling impact on their entire family. Today, David is reaching even more readers. Just recently, Starbucks selected his memoir for their national book club. David is here.

1:57Starbucks chooses really good books, too, I must say. Why did you decide to go public? You know, this was when this hit our family. We were like, I think, so many families in this country who feel, you know, I was not naive about drugs. I used drugs when I was a kid. Some of my friends, you know, went by the wayside. But I still thought, like most of us, you know, this could never happen to our family. And when it did, we were so blindsided. We were so devastated that I realized that this is something we have to talk about. If we don't talk about it, it's not like there's an easy solution. It's not like talking about it is going to solve the problem, but at least it's a start.

2:32So that's really what happened. Didn't it start because you wrote that article for the New York Times, I think 2005? Yeah, and even for that, it was sort of, you know, how are we going to go public with this, expose our family, my son, to such scrutiny? You know, Nick was encouraging me to go forward and my family was. And then once I did that, I realized that there was... I realized the power of telling a story like this because it opens the door to other people. It gives people permission to tell about what they're going... And also, you're a writer by trade. That's what you do for a living.

2:57Absolutely. I mean, writing was actually a tool to get through this. I would be up in the middle of the night, and that's how I would make it till the morning. I would sit there and write and write and write. Now, had you kept Nick's addiction a secret from friends and family? I did. At first, I was trying to protect Nick, first of all, I think. I didn't want people to think badly of my son. And then the other thing, I think I was trying to protect myself, frankly. I was ashamed. My son is a drug addict. I mean, what does this mean? What does it mean about me? Yeah, there's a point in the book, I can't remember what page, where you say you were stunned at how absolutely in denial you were.

3:32Well, as I read the book, I was too stunned at how absolutely in denial you were. Yeah, I was in denial. I think that maybe it's just me, but I kind of think we parents are wired for denial because to see the trouble that a child is in is so painful, it's so terrifying, that I would hear the good things, I'd see the good things, I'd block out the terrifying course that we were on until it was impossible to deny anymore. Okay. Well, as a little boy, David's son, Nick, seemed to have it all, a winning personality and a bright future. But as every year passed, David's dream for his son just started to slip away.

4:13This is where I raised my beautiful boy. I mean, this was Nick's childhood. You know, this healthy sort of outdoor San Francisco Bay is sort of almost a reflection of him, this sort of golden, shining light.

4:27He had this sort of joyfulness, this love of life. When Nick was only four years old, his parents went through a bitter divorce. He grew up splitting his time between his dad's home in Northern California and his mom's in L.A. For many years, David thought his son was handling things pretty well. He went to independent, you know, private schools. He was almost always on the honor roll. He was the captain of the water polo team. David had no idea that by middle school, Nick was secretly smoking marijuana every day. When I first found pot in his backpack when he was 12, I was so freaked out. And it was partly because it felt like a betrayal of our trust.

5:11We brought Nick to a therapist right away. And then he started experimenting with other drugs. and I had some glimpses about it. And again, I was worried, but I also was a parent in denial. Acid, mushrooms, ecstasy, and cocaine. Today to Tara, these drugs quickly became the center of his beloved son's world. I knew that he was in trouble. You know, I was walking this line about, you know, about trying to, you know, advise him to help him and not lose him. When Nick turned 18, Nick found methamphetamine. Methamphetamine stole his soul. Our lives descended, Nick's life descended into what can only be described as hell.

6:01Now, when he, when, at 12, when you discovered the pot in his bag, he stopped for a while. He did. And, you know, also he told me what I wanted to hear. So did he completely stop? He said, you know, I made a mistake. The kids at school were doing it. It was cool. Also, you know, I got these mixed messages from the teachers, even. I went to talk to his teacher. I talked to a counselor, and they said, you know, Nick's fine. He's a smart kid. He's going to be fine. He's doing well in school. He's got a lot of friends. So it wasn't that I completely dismissed it. I was worried, but I didn't take it seriously.

6:30But you also knew as a parent that it was easy for him to do well. I mean, when it came time for college, he got into, you know, almost every college that he applied for. He did. And yet his, I can't remember who, but one of the teachers or senior advisors had said he broke the record for skipping school. Yeah, by the time he got to be a senior, that's when things started to get, he was getting in more and more trouble. And yet it was, even then, a teacher, actually it was a therapist who said to me, you know, he's acting out, he's got, he was already enrolled to go start at Berkeley in the fall.

7:01And he was skipping classes and he sort of said to me, listen, I'm getting ready for college, don't worry. And this counselor said to me, you know, college will straighten him out. So did I believe it? Yeah, whatever. I wanted to believe it. So... Yeah. Well, in the book, David writes about sharing a joint with Nick. He describes it as a desperate attempt to connect with his son. Do you regret that? I do regret it. I thought about it sort of like this moment. Nick was already on this course, and I was desperate to connect with him. And stupidly, you know, he'd lit a joint. I took it. I thought about it.

7:35Maybe I rationalized it in my mind. And, you know, it's sort of like another generation. The dad would finally have a beer with his son. It was this rite of passage. You have this heart-to-heart talk. And then, of course, what does that say? Where's the hypocrisy? You know, I'm saying don't do this. I'm saying be careful of this thing. I'm smoking a joint with him. It was not something I'm proud of. I also know that I'm not the only one. I've heard from so many people who have very similar stories. You know, is that what ultimately made Nick a drug addict? I don't think so. And how extensively had you done drugs in your youth?

8:01Well, I didn't go anywhere near as far as Nick, but I tried a lot of drugs. I tried almost heroin. I never injected drugs. I never tried heroin, things like that. But I used a lot of drugs. And I watched my college roommate, you know, at 2 o 'clock in the morning, I was the one who would say, listen, I got school in the morning. I got to go to bed. And he'd look at me like I was crazy because he's the one who, you know, he was just getting started. And he became addicted and he died by the time he was 40 years old. He didn't make it. Okay. So you made the decision as a parent to tell your child, to tell, to tell Nick that you had done drugs, right?

8:33Yeah. Yeah, I did. Even though some people said, don't do that. Yeah, there was all these mixed messages. Some people say, do do it. Some people say, don't do it. Yeah, the experts even today, half and half, you know. But I felt, when I was a child, my parents were from a gen... My parents didn't know anything about drugs. They didn't even drink. You know, they didn't have a glass of wine at dinner. So when they said, you know, don't just say no, it was before Nancy Reagan, but it was still that message, just say no, I kind of rolled my eyes and thought, you know, they don't know what they're talking about.

8:55And it didn't even enter the picture. So I thought I'd have some credibility, because I did know people who... whose lives were destroyed by drugs. So I thought when I warned him, you know, it was, I didn't know. And wasn't there a point, yes, you tell the story in the book where you're giving, I call it, another lecture, and you're saying, I know people who died from this and I know that, and you're, and Nick says, hey, but you did drugs. I know. That's the problem with this. It's a mixed message. They bring these athletes to schools now or other, you know, people who've done well, and they say, you know, don't use drugs.

9:25I almost died. Well, what did the kids see? They see this person who not only survived, but they're thriving. So it is a mixed message, and I think that that's a problem. We have to figure out how to better talk to kids about this. Okay. Daddy. Yes, sweetheart. Daddy. What? Daddy. Yes, sweetheart. Daddy. Daddy. I love you. Well, that was David Sheff's beautiful boy about 16 years before he descended into a world of drugs, heroin, cocaine, crystal meth. Nick says he's been clean now for a little over two years.

10:03How did you feel the first time you read your father's book? Well, I cried a lot. You know, I mean, I felt like, I don't know, I guess like I didn't really realize that when I was using and like when I was trying to kill myself, you know, through using that I was really affecting everyone around me. You know, I sort of thought that I was living in a vacuum or something. And, you know, when I read his book and just saw how much his life had been, you know, just ripped apart by my using and how, you know, his marriage had been, you know, tested and how my little brother and sister were affected, it was devastating.

10:40I mean, I remember, you know, yeah, really just having to stop every five or ten pages and just cry. And I remember calling my girlfriend's mom and just, you know, sobbing to her on the phone. So it was super devastating for sure. Because all the time you were using, you never thought what you were doing to other people? I mean, I thought about it a little bit, but I sort of felt like, you know, if I was going to kill myself, that was my business. And so, you know, I was just should be left alone to do what I was going to do, you know. And, yeah, I mean, I knew there was a little piece of me, you know, deep down that knew that what I was doing was really tearing my family apart.

11:16But I didn't want to see that, you know. And I think that's part of the reason that I kept using drugs, you know, was to blot out that pain or whatever. Uh-huh. What were you trying to blot out? You started at, what, 11? Yeah, I started, well, I drank, I got drunk for the first time when I was 11. And, yeah, I mean, I think I was just this really sensitive kid, you know, and the world was really abrasive and overwhelming, and I felt really hopeless. How did you get drunk at 11? How did that tell us about that? We were up at a ski cabin, you know, in Tahoe, and there was a liquor cabinet and me and my friend just took, you know, a little bit of each liquor so that it wouldn't, you know, you wouldn't notice how much had been taken out of the bottle and mixed it with, like, some lemonade or something and drank it.

12:00And the weird thing is is that my friend, you know, drank a little bit of it and was like, oh, this is gross, you know, but for me, I don't know, it was like this weird, like, instantaneous thing. When I started drinking it, I just, I couldn't stop, you know, almost right away. And I blacked out and I ended up, you know, throwing up everywhere. And, yeah, the reaction that my body had to alcohol was definitely strange. Well, Nick has written his own version of this story in his new memoir. It's called Tweak, Growing Up on Methamphetamines. The experiences documented in this book are his best recollections of what happened while he was using drugs.

12:36And in light of the controversy of A Million Little Pieces and other memoirs that have faced scrutiny, Nick and his publisher include a disclaimer that says that this work is a memoir. It reflects the author's present recollections of his experiences over a period of years. Certain names, locations, and identifying characters have been changed. Certain individuals are composites. Dialogue and events have been recreated from memory and in some cases have been compressed to convey the substance of what was said or what occurred. You kept a journal even when you were on drugs? Yeah, I was always writing.

13:11I mean, even when I was on the street and homeless, you know, I was always... I don't know, I think it was like writing was a way of sort of trying to have some control over this totally out of control situation or make sense of this totally nonsensical situation. And I have those journals. I mean, I just actually, my dad pulled out some when I was back home, you know, this last weekend. And it's painful to read, but it's also really sort of cool to have a record of everything that happened. I love the journal entry where you wrote, How the hell did I get here? It doesn't seem that long ago that I was on the water polo team.

13:46I was an editor of the school newspaper, acting in the spring play, obsessing about which girls I liked. The kids in my class are in college. This isn't so much sad as it is baffling. At the time, it all seemed so positive and harmless. Yeah. I mean, I, well, I mean, I guess, obviously, I didn't want to become a drug addict, you know? I mean, when I was a little kid, that wasn't my goal for the future. So, you know, it was, I mean, it did take me by surprise. And it, you know, it's... When you wrote that in your journal, where were you? What had happened? What state? I think that was when I was at my first rehab.

14:21I went through rehab five times. Five times, yeah. Yeah, I'd been in there for maybe a little while and sort of, I don't know, when I first went into rehab, I finally really started to see that maybe like, yeah, I might have this disease that they were talking about called alcoholism, and that I might never be able to have control over my consumption of drugs and alcohol. I wasn't totally convinced, but I was getting there. The first time you didn't. And even you weren't convinced. I thought... You're looking at him in rehab, you're seeing him with the other kids, and you're thinking, well, he's not like those addicts.

14:54No, he's not a drug addict. No, he's made a mistake. I mean, he pushed, as he said, he pushed things too far. Even a counselor said, well, if Nick's rebellion is extreme, it's because you didn't give him a lot to rebel against, so I'm taking it on my shoulders. It is my fault, after all. And I'm thinking, you know, yeah, it's good that he's in rehab because it sort of pulled him off the streets and he's safe for the moment. But then we'll get back to our life. You know, he's going to go back to college. And all the sort of plans that I had for my son, you know, were just these expectations or these assumptions.

15:20Everything would be back, would be okay. It was very naive. I didn't understand the dictionary. When you read his book, are you surprised at how in denial he was? Or do you think that you really were good at fooling him and lying? No, I'm surprised at how... I was surprised at how in denial he was when I was using and I was lying to him about it. I sort of was baffled that he was falling for my lies or something. So, yeah, and when I read the book, yeah, I mean, it was amazing to me that I could be inside, you know, having, being in so much pain and having, you know, just this tumultuous inner world and that externally, you know, I guess I appeared very, like, centered and calm or something because, you know, he didn't see what was going on inside of me at all.

16:03And then it all changed the first time you did crystal meth, correct? Yeah. I mean, with, you know, with everything else that I tried, you know, it was like I had been really, you know, I had this pain inside of me. I did. And I was, you know, looking for something to numb it out, you know. But when I tried crystal for the first time, I mean, the first time I did a line of crystal, it was like, you know, my whole world changed. It was like, you know, the missing piece that I'd been looking for my whole life. You know, I just felt like confident and strong and like I could do anything, you know.

16:35I felt like a rock star, you know, just had just, I don't know. I mean, it was like everything that I'd been missing my whole life, you know. And I wanted to hold on to that feeling because it was exactly what I needed. And then? And then the crash, which is, you know, the worst. How long after that did you crash? Well, I mean, I remember, I mean, even just the first time coming down off Crystal, I remember, you know, lying in my bed, and I was, like, sweating the drug out of my body, and I was shaking and stuff. And, I mean, it was just this, like, intense, horrible, wrenching pain. Like, someone had come in with a vacuum cleaner and just sucked out every good feeling that I'd ever had in my whole life, you know.

17:13So, I don't know. I mean, that was another reason that I had to keep using because I was so afraid of having that crash, you know. But, you know, eventually, I guess, like with every drug, you know, it stops working. it stops taking that pain away. And so I was just using all the time. But I was never feeling really euphoric like I had. You know, I was just sort of staying well. Yeah, I hear you're always chasing the first high. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. You say on page 20, the truth was I didn't want to stop. It's not like I enjoyed stealing or hurting my dad or whatever. I mean, I hated it, but I was so scared of coming off the drugs.

17:49It was like this horrible, vicious cycle. The more I use, the more I did things I was ashamed of, and the more I had to use, so I never had to face that. Yeah, absolutely.

18:02Well, as a teenage addict, Nick ran away from home many times in a manic search for his next high. Yeah, we are in the Tenderloin District in San Francisco. This is Alice Street. And, yeah, this is where I was homeless. This is where I spent a lot of time when I was strung out. You know, it's a big spot for crystal meth and crack. This hotel that's just right up here, we would like go in there and shoot up in the hallways and everything. My arms were pretty horrific to look at. There's a scar from the abscess that I had that, you know, that I almost could have lost my arm from, you know, that they had to cut open and it was like this big old gaping hole.

18:48When Nick would be gone, when I wouldn't know where he was, when he was on the streets. I was consumed with Nick. I was obsessed with him to the point that I couldn't, I could barely function. By now, David was remarried with two young children, Jasper and Daisy. And it was at the expense of my wife, my, you know, beloved little children. How could a parent whose son is in mortal peril like this think about anything else? For five years, David says Nick was on a suicide mission fueled by crystal meth. I tried dealing drugs. You know, I was a sex worker for a little bit of time. You know, I broke into my, you know, parents' house.

19:33I'd steal checks from my stepmom and write them out to myself. But I, you know, literally went into my little brother's, like, piggy bank and stole, you know,$5 from it or$8 to take that the next step and actually make them unsafe. you know, is really something that I'm so ashamed of. I got a call one day that Nick was in a hospital emergency room on life support, and I was told by the doctor that there was a good chance he wasn't going to make it. I called to check on him again, and the nurse told me that he left. And I said, what do you mean he left? And they said that he pulled out the IV, he pulled out the catheter, walked out of the hospital, and it was another one of the many times that I broke down just crying because it seemed so hopeless.

20:17And he got even more hopeless. David remembers one of his many attempts to get Nick into rehab. Well, this is the hate. And it was a neighborhood where I knew that Nick would hang out and score drugs and use drugs. So I came down here and I just scoured these streets, checked alleyways. You know, I ducked into the cafes. I went over in, you know, the record stores. I went, I mean, beat all the bars. I mean, I just, I, it was this crazy, stupid, I mean, utterly ridiculous desperation.

20:46At night there's a ton of street kids around here. We would come specifically to go to this bathroom so we could shoot up in it. Please insert 25 cents. You can lock yourself in there. It's really skinny. I think crystal meth does this thing where you get scales in your skin. I remember just looking in the mirror and it looks like you have scales all over your skin. I was afraid to call my dad. I mean, I was afraid. I was ashamed, too. You know, it was just this idea that I was just going to shoot drugs until I killed myself. Doing crystal, I mean, it made me into, like, an animal. I mean, I would have practically done anything to anybody in order to keep getting it.

21:28After not seeing Nick for several weeks, David finally convinced him to meet at a cafe. Nick was strung out on meth, and I was just beside myself with worry. And I waited, and I waited, and I waited, and he didn't show up. So finally, you know, I was walking around the block again, and I looked up, and there, my God, there he was. And my heart just sunk, because there was my son, my beautiful boy, and he looked like he was walking dead. And now, I didn't know this at the time, but he went to the bathroom, and he shot up again, and when he came out, I begged him. I said, Nick, please get in the car with me, please.

22:06Sorry. I said, please get in the car with me. I want to take you to the hospital or to someplace, and he wouldn't come.

22:18So what happened after that, David? Well, he left, and I went home and did what I was used to doing, which was just suffering and worrying and not sleeping, and calling the hospital occasionally and calling the police to find out. I called the police once, and they said, have you checked the morgue? And, you know, I called the morgue, and I fully expected to hear, yeah, we've got him. So I just had to wait. And I waited, and thank God, you know, thank God. He thinks...thank God before he died, we got him into treatment. Treatment and then treatment and then relapse and then... Yeah. Yeah. Well, that was the thing, too, is that, you know, finally got him into treatment.

Read the full transcript

23:01I mean, that wasn't the first time. But even the first time I got him into treatment, I thought, that was hell. That was a nightmare, too. I think one of the blessings and gift of your, both of your books, is to understand for anybody out there, and there are lots of families dealing with addiction, that relapse is a part of the treatment. I never really, yeah, yeah. And that's a really important thing, because I felt so, and it's important for people to understand, because, you know, certainly you send your child into rehab and it's gut-wrenching. But then I thought, well, I'll pick him up in 30 days and thank God, you know, this will be over.

23:31Well, that's not the way addiction works. and you realize that every rehab, every relapse is potentially fatal. It's not ever going to be a good thing, but sometimes it takes a while for them to get it. And it's important to understand that because otherwise you feel so defeated. Mm-hmm. You realize that there's still hope. Yeah. But you also say in Beautiful Boy that you were addicted to his addiction. Yeah. Yeah. I did. I, we, it consumed me. I mean, I can't, I completely... Would you have done things differently knowing now what you know? Would you do things differently? You know, I guess, I, I, some of it I, I wish I could have done differently.

24:02I wish I could have had more perspective, but unless you go through it, I think you can't do it differently. I mean, I had to go through it to get where I was. But there were years. It wasn't just, you know, a short amount of time. There were years when this consumed me to the point that I couldn't function, really. I couldn't take care of my other responsibilities. I was absolutely addicted to Nick's addiction, and I felt... And I even justified it, because I thought, how could I not? You know, I just was... Did Jasper and Daisy and your new wife suffer because of it? They absolutely suffered.

24:29Okay.

24:34The day that Nicholas broke into my garage, I sat on the stoop, not knowing where he was. This time had he gone back to San Francisco, was he on the street again? I don't know. I was sitting here having coffee. And then I heard this strange mumbling noise in the garage. And then I said, Nicholas? I opened the door, I came in, the place was trashed. I was walking over clothes, books, everything, and I looked up. He was in the rafters, just sitting there with all these clothes on him and mumbling and not making a lot of sense. I was so happy to see him and know he was alive that even in this state, all I wanted to do was hug him.

25:31All I wanted to do was just hug him and kiss him and help him. That was Nick's mother, Vicki. David is now remarried and has two children with his second wife, Karen, 14-year-old Jasper and 11-year-old Daisy. Tell us about the time that Nick had been home and then Jasper came with, I think, his piggy bank and said... Yeah, he said to me, you know, somebody had broken into his piggy bank, and he said to me, I think Nick took my money. So how do I explain to my little boy that his big brother, who he worships, his hero, you know, stole from him? How do I explain that? And we had a lot of conversations.

26:12I tried to make him understand. We took him to a counselor to help to try to understand what it means to have a drug addict in the family. And there is, that's the only explanation. Nick on drugs would do unconscionable things. Nick on drugs would do horrific things. It's not Nick. Do you remember that, Nick, stealing the money from your little brother? I actually honestly don't remember doing that. I know it was me because there's no one else that would have done it, but I think I was in a blackout when I stole that money. But, I mean, it's hard to regret things, you know, because it's like I'm happy about where my life is now, you know, and I wouldn't, you know, I don't know.

26:54I mean, I wouldn't necessarily change things, but at the same time, I mean, I just regret so much, you know, having hurt my little brother and sister. I understand what you mean by that. You wouldn't change things because it took that to get to be where you are. Yeah, and I'm really grateful for all the gifts in my life, you know, today, but I just, I wish, you know, more than anything else that I hadn't made them feel so unsafe, you know? I mean, I just wanted to be, for my little brother and sister, I mean, since the moment they were born, I wanted to be this strong example to them of, like, a male that was sensitive and open and, you know, could sort of guide them.

27:31And, you know, to turn on them like that is, you know, just totally devastating to me. So Daisy is about the age now that you... She's 11. 11. Daisy is the age that you were when you started doing alcohol. If you were to find out that you were doing alcohol or chose the same path that you chose at the time, what would you do? Well, I think the thing for me was is that I was, like, so terrified of looking inside of myself. Like, I felt like if I looked inside of myself, I would see that I was just, like, this ugly, disgusting, you know, worthless person, you know? And so I was so scared of that that I started drinking and using so that I could escape from that.

28:16So I never had to look at myself. And in the work that I've done subsequently, I feel like I have been able to look at myself. And it's so stupid. I don't know what I was running from that whole time. There was nothing so bad inside of me. And so if my little sister was drinking and using, I would just really talk to her about looking at what was going on inside of her that she was trying to run away from. because it's just a waste of time to, you know, spend all this time, you know, hiding and trying to be something that you're not, when really, you know, we're all these, like, beautiful, you know, amazing people, you know, deep down in our core.

28:51And... But you now do see yourself as an addict. I am an addict absolutely, 100 percent. And, you know... So you know if you even have a glass of wine, what would happen? Yeah, I mean, what I do, I mean, if when I've tried to just drink, you know, it hasn't worked. I mean, if I have a glass of wine, it's like this hunger opens up inside of me. And I might be able to fight it off for, you know, a day or two, but, I mean, really, by the end, you know, of the week, I'll be drinking, you know, a bottle of vodka. I mean, it's totally baffling and it makes no sense, you know. And it's just, I guess...

29:25It does, because you were an addict. Yeah, I mean, that's all it is, is that it's this disease, I guess, of addiction, you know. And it's a totally baffling, you know, malady, I think.

29:37Since David began writing about his journey through Nick's addiction, he's connected with other parents across America who finally feel that they are not alone. This is Gordon and Karen's story. Noah was a very good child. I mean, if you said Noah Jump, he'd go, hell, hi, Mommy. You know, he was very good in school. He always got all A's. He was an excellent athlete. When he was 13, he was abused by a coach. As a result of this heinous act, my son initiated use of alcohol and drugs, which led to a spiraling of his suffering. Noah turned to marijuana and alcohol on a regular basis. Later in his life, he moved to things like cocaine and heroin.

30:33During a three-year period, Noah's parents say he was hospitalized 19 times. There were 84 visits to the emergency room. He tried recovery so many times, and we would come visit him, and he was just a shell of himself. To help wean him off cocaine, doctors prescribed methadone. Three days later, his parents got a phone call they will never forget. And they said that Noah was sleeping all day, he was passed out, and white substance was, had come out of his nose or mouth. And so we followed, we went to the hospital. The person at the desk said, oh, are you the Seidenbergs? They knew who we were.

31:14And we said yes. And they said, could you wait in that room over there? And it was this little private room. That's the bad room. And I knew what had happened. Because we had to go in that kind of a room. And wait. And then finally the doctor came in. And he told us. He said we tried to save him, but they couldn't.

31:44And they asked if we'd like to see him. And we all wanted to. And we went in the room. I was so surprised because he looked at such peace. He looked in the greatest peace he had looked in over ten years since this whole mess started. Noah died on July 28, 2006. So, Gordon, did you see yourself in this story? I saw it was the same, but it was different. but there were many, many things that were in common that I wanted to discuss with David. Karen, did you see yourself in this story? Oh, yes, I saw myself in the story. When Nick so eloquently used the word baffling over and over, to me, the disease of addiction is a family disease that is so insidious and so cunning and so baffling.

32:42It's an adjective that just, I think, really hits the nail on the head. Well, we are sorry about the loss of your son, Noah. Did you, when you said you saw him there and that he was finally at peace, was there some relief that he was at peace? You know, at first I felt guilty for feeling that relief. And in my grief, it took me quite a while. But I came to the realization, yes, there absolutely was some relief, because he had spent ten years just suffering and battling this disease. So there was relief.

33:25Three years ago, after writing My Addicted Son for the New York Times magazine, David received an email from Kathleen. Kathleen's meth-addicted daughter was in jail and begging to be bailed out. And what advice did you give her? Well, when I went through this, you know, the things that we do as parents, we think we can't take any more. We think that we under...every time we think we can't take more, we do. One of the things that happened is I walked into an Al-Anon meeting one time, and I saw actually two parents, and they were weeping. And they said, my child is in jail. Thank God. And I said, thank God.

34:02Is that where we get where the good news comes when our child is in jail? But indeed, you know, they're not on the street. We know where they are. They know, you know, obviously there are drugs in jail, but it's not the same. And in some places, maybe even they're going to get treated. So that, I thought, it was heartbreaking. So I told her that story, and I just said, hang on. After reaching out to David and hearing his advice, Kathleen stood by as her addicted daughter went to prison. Maria had been incarcerated two times prior to prison. So I decided I wasn't going to go and see her every Sunday to hear her empty promises.

34:42I decided that I would send her a postcard every day. I wanted her to know that the postcards meant that I thought of her. And for the next three months, Kathleen poured her soul into 72 beautiful postcards written just for her daughter, always signing them, I love you, Mom. I wanted her to know that I was with her. And I was sharing her pain. I was sharing her fear. And I wanted her to know that we love her no matter what she does or where she is. When Maria was growing up, she was in love with Winnie the Pooh. And one of the quotes I sent to her was, Promise me you'll always remember. You're braver than you believe.

35:39And stronger than you seem. And smarter than you think. Christopher Robin to Winnie the Pooh. I love you, Maria. Mommy.

35:53That Christopher Robin's smart.

36:00So, Maria, what turned you around? Um, definitely the side of prison. I never thought that I would ever end up there. But through the choices I made through my addiction, just like Nick said, you know, you know you're doing wrong, but something about that drug that kind of just shields you away from that, like, you just don't care. You're always chasing that next high, and basically, you're going to do whatever it takes to get that, No matter who it hurts, how many times you hurt them, the repercussions after, you still just, you know, make that choice to cross the boundary. How long have you been clean?

36:40I've been clean since August 15, 2006. A day at a time. Right. Do you fear relapsing? Every day is a struggle. Every day, just putting my clothes on especially, because I don't fit any of my clothes anymore that I, you know, that I used to wear. You have that choice, you know, to either pick up or not. But for me, being the addict that I am, I know that one pick up or that one decision is going to land me right back to where I was. That endless spiral, you know, to destruction. And for addicts, it's not, you know, we can do it casually or, you know, here and there. it's not one drink, it's the whole bottle.

37:27Yeah. Yeah. Well, congratulations. Thank you very much. August 15, 2016.

37:36I love it when you say this in the book on page 15, your children live or die without you. No matter what we do, no matter how we agonize or obsess, we cannot choose for our children whether they live or die. It's a devastating realization, but liberating. You know, we want to take care of our children from the moment they're born. We want...that's our job as parents. You know, I...Thomas Lynch wrote, you know, if we can't protect our children, what good are fathers? And that's the way I felt. But ultimately, that's exactly right. You know, Nick had to choose whether to live or die. It was terrifying to put it in his hands, but thank God, you know?

38:16And you write on the last page of your book, My secrets will kill me if I don't get honest about my life. I cannot have recovery, so my challenge is to be authentic." That's it. Yeah, that's it. That's it. I mean, I feel like that's my mission every day, you know, to be honest and open and vulnerable and, you know, raw. And that's what that book was about. And that's what talking about this stuff is about. Thank you both for being here. David's book is Beautiful Boy. Nick's is Tweak. Bye, everybody. I'm Oprah Winfrey and you've been listening to the Oprah Winfrey show the podcast if you haven't yet go to Apple podcasts and subscribe rate and review this podcast join me next week for another Oprah show the podcast and I thank you for listening.

From the publisher

Original Air Date: 4-10-2008

In this episode, we hear from David Sheff, author of Beautiful Boy, as he shares the harrowing journey of watching his son descend into drug addiction; methamphetamines, heroin, cocaine, and more. His son, Nic Sheff, author of Tweak, offers his own raw account from the other side of addiction, giving voice to the pain, chaos, and complexity of substance dependency. Together, their stories offer a rare and honest look at how addiction impacts not just the individual, but the entire family. Other families also open up, revealing the devastation and heartbreak that drug dependency can bring and the hope that healing is possible.


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