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Podcast Episode Notes: The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway - "No Mercy / No Malice: Mammon"
Episode Overview Episode Title: No Mercy / No Malice: Mammon Episode Description: As read by George Hahn. Podcast Link: [Listen Here](https://www.profgalloway.com/mammon/)
In this episode, Scott Galloway explores the intersection of capitalism and ideals, using OpenAI's journey as a case study to discuss the decline of ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) investing and the overarching implications of capital-driven decisions in business.
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Key Themes and Concepts
The Clash of Capital and Ideals
- Capital Wins: Galloway asserts that when capital (financial interests) and ideals (ethical considerations) conflict, capital ultimately prevails.
- OpenAI's Transformation: The transition of OpenAI from a non-profit to a for-profit model after significant investment from Microsoft illustrates this phenomenon.
The Decline of ESG Investing
- ESG Movement's Origin: Initially, ESG investing aimed to prioritize ethical considerations over shareholder returns.
- Failure of ESG: Evidence suggests that ESG has become a branding exercise rather than a genuine investment strategy. Returns on ESG funds match those of traditional funds, indicating a lack of effectiveness.
- Greenwashing: Companies often engage in misleading practices (greenwashing) to appear environmentally friendly while failing to implement real changes.
Case Studies
- OpenAI's Evolution: Founded with altruistic intentions, OpenAI’s shift towards profit-seeking reflects broader trends in the tech industry where lofty ideals are sacrificed for financial gain.
- Google's "Don't Be Evil": Galloway discusses how Google's original mantra has been abandoned in favor of profit-driven decisions.
The Role of Government and Regulation
- Need for Oversight: Galloway argues for the necessity of government intervention to police corporations, counteracting unchecked capital interests that can lead to societal harm.
- Democracy as a Counterweight: He emphasizes that democratic institutions must enforce regulations to hold corporations accountable, rather than relying solely on corporate self-regulation.
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Key Takeaways
- Corporate Responsibility vs. Profit Motive: While companies can generate short and long-term benefits from ethical behavior, the overarching profit motive often leads to compromising ethical standards.
- Consumer Awareness: Investors are becoming increasingly aware of the shortcomings of ESG funds, leading to substantial withdrawals from sustainable investments.
- Incentives Over Executives: Galloway suggests that changing the incentives driving corporate behavior may yield better results than merely replacing corporate executives.
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Conclusion Scott Galloway’s insights in this episode provide a critical examination of how financial interests dominate ethical considerations in the business world. He calls for stronger government regulations to ensure that corporate actions align more closely with societal needs, rather than allowing capital to dictate terms. The episode serves as a stark reminder of the importance of maintaining a balance between profit and principle in the evolving landscape of business ethics.
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Additional Notes
- The podcast encourages listeners to reflect on their own values as consumers and voters, emphasizing collective responsibility in upholding ethical standards in capitalism.
- Galloway's commentary is both provocative and reflective, challenging long-held beliefs about the benevolence of capitalism and the efficacy of ESG investing.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Rinse takes your laundry and hand delivers it to your door. expertly cleaned and folded. So you could take the time once spent folding and sorting and waiting to finally pursue a whole new version of you. Like tea time you. Mmm. Or this tea time you. Or even this tea time you. So did you hear about Dave? Or even tea time, tea time, tea time you. Mmm. So update on Dave. It's up to you. We'll take the laundry. Rinse. It's time to be great. Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start? Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is?
0:43With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top-rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the app. Download today. I'm Scott Galloway, and this is No Mercy, No Malice. When capital and ideals clash, capital wins. The near collapse of open AI signals the decline of ESG investing. Capital can only be constrained by one force, democracy. Mammon, as read by George Hahn.
1:30biger. The real tragedy of Andrew Ross Sorkin's interview with a co-founder of OpenAI is that ketamine addicts deserve a better spokesperson. But that's another post. The collapse and rebirth of the Valley's preeminent private company was the most bewildering business story of 2023, and an object lesson in a truth that's hiding in plain sight. When capital and ideals clash, Cash. Capital smothers ideals in their sleep. The end of the charade that OpenAI was a non-profit signals the beginning of the end of ESG. We are always ready and want to believe that this time it's different. We will do good while making billions.
2:21The last big corporate jazz hands was the ESG movement, purporting to prioritize environmental, social, and governance concerns over shareholder returns. Succumbing to this siren call, we abdicated our responsibility to discipline corporations and curb the externalities wrought by the pursuit of profit, believing instead that one profit-seeking entity could cajole another profit-seeking entity to seek something else. Elon Musk and Sam Altman founded OpenAI eight years ago with a specific altruistic mission. To invent the most transformative technology ever known and then give it away for free.
3:06They had amassed vast wealth from private enterprise and didn't believe a for-profit company could be a responsible steward of the AI tech they planned to build. Fast forward, one box was checked with a pen the size of the Hercules Corona Borealis Great Wall. OpenAI is likely the most important private company in the world, and it's already one of the most valuable. But the tsunami of private capital washed over its founding ideals. Once the water receded, one house of worship, the pursuit of shareholder value, stood unblemished. Note, in this instance, shareholder should not be confused with stakeholder.
3:55OpenAI's founding mission was drawn and quartered the moment the company took its first billion-dollar investment from Microsoft in 2019. Four years in, the company determined it would need billions to build the team and computing infrastructure that advanced AI would require. It's possible they always knew this and expected Elon to foot the bill. But he severed ties in 2018, either because of conflicts or because he lost a power struggle. Regardless, the company needed capital. It raised a billion dollars from Microsoft and restructured itself as a for-profit controlled by the original non-profit.
4:35When a non-profit takes a billion-dollar investment from a for-profit, it has been bitten by the dead and is now also a profit-seeking White Walker. Open AI was not the first company whose founders thought they could breathe and swallow at the same time. Tech, in particular, is a museum of grandiose mission statements, eventually cast aside in pursuit of profit. Google, from which Sam and Elon poached some of the first open AI hires, famously espoused the mantra, Don't be evil, putting the motto in its 2004 IPO prospectus. Stephen Levy used the phrase as a thematic touchstone in his history of the company, the book In the Plex.
5:24The book highlights the crisis the company faced balancing principles against profit. Over and over, it asked itself, is this evil? And chose evil. Building its own browser, page 210. Tracking users to sell ads, 338. Building AI for weapons, 405. And, most famously, agreeing to censor search results on behalf of the Chinese government, 284. Not to mention radicalizing young men and undermining the business of journalism. In 2018, the company passively acknowledged what it had become, relegating don't be evil to an HR scold at the end of its code of conduct. Sports analysts refer to the impact of a great player as their gravity.
6:16They pull defensive players toward them, leaving other players open. Messi, Steph Curry, everyone in Man City's attack has gravity. Capital bests them all. See Ronaldo's Al Nasser contract. Everything you want to do at a company, including hiring employees, buying raw materials and renting space, requires capital. Your shareholders demand a return on theirs, i.e. profits. A manager's task is difficult but simple. allocate finite capital to generate a greater return than their peer group gets. And when the ROI-maximizing decision isn't one that benefits humanity, capital wins. Sam may have his hands on the wheel, but he's sitting on Satya's lap as he drives.
7:11Capital is in charge. The saga at OpenAI is playing out at macro scale in the markets, with the decline of the ESG movement. ESG stands for Environment, Society, Governance. And it's what fashionable multinationals are wearing this season. It comes in a few styles, a management strategy, an investment thesis, a product offering. But they're all the same masquerade, that for-profit corporations and the markets can police themselves. The question of whether they can is bested by the evidence. They don't. Over the past decade, a crop of funds has surfaced offering to invest your money in sustainable ways while still delivering competitive returns.
8:04The experiment has been a failure. ESG is neither an investment strategy nor altruism. It's branding. As my colleague at NYU, Oswath de Motaron, highlights, corporate ESG scores increase every year. Is that because corporations are becoming better? Or is it because the bar is getting lower? When a company like American Airlines makes the Dow Jones Sustainability Index, it's the latter. The hollowness of ESG investing is reflected in its returns, which are neither good nor bad, but average. So average that the S &P 500 and the S &P 500 ESG index's returns are nearly identical every year. And that's by design.
9:04The top five weighted companies in the S &P 500 ESG index are Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, NVIDIA, and Google. It's no coincidence these are also the five most valuable companies in the U.S. Meanwhile, investors pay a greater expense ratio on the ESG ETF, 0.10%. And by ESG standards, even that's low. The iShares ESG Aware ETF charges 0.15%, and the FlexShares ESG ETF almost trebles that to 0.42%. It's the definition of branding. Create intangible associations that evoke emotion versus product benefit, resulting in pricing power. Or, more simply, slap a green label on your fund, marginally adjust your weightings, and charge more.
10:07The ESG movement is waning. Investors withdrew$14 billion from sustainable funds this year. The shift is partly structural. Traditional funds have also seen net withdrawals, a.k.a. negative organic growth. but ESG funds are facing steeper declines likely because people are catching on to their sleight of hand. We wrote about a greenwasher extraordinaire two years ago Aspiration which promised to save the planet with a debit card. The planet is still under threat and the company fired its founder CEO laid off hundreds of staff and pivoted towards selling carbon credits to corporations. Aspiration is a case study in the deeper cost of buying into the mythology of do-gooder capitalism.
11:01Capitalists weaponize it for profit. Two months ago, Deutsche Bank agreed to pay a$19 million settlement for claiming it made investment decisions based on ESG but not actually doing that. which is fraud, but also dumb, as being labeled ESG is not a big lift. See above American Airlines. Before that, oil giant Shell was accused of misleading investors on its green credentials. In the past year, corporate greenwashing incidents have risen 70%. The danger bigger than usurious fees is that we don't invest in the democratic institutions focused on preventing a tragedy of the commons, because we believe market solutions can handle carbon emissions and forced labor.
11:58It's not the fault of the businesses, but the citizenry, which continues to engage in a consensual hallucination that tech innovators can cosplay world leaders and solve our most pressing problems, all while making us and them rich. I don't know if or how climate change is remedied, but I'm certain the solutions will cost money before they make any. Corporations are so good at making money, they shouldn't be trusted to do anything else. Treating your employees well, investing in the community, and generally supporting the Commonwealth all offer short - and long-term benefits to stakeholders, and so stakeholders, us, should ensure it all happens.
12:46This is not an abdication of corporate responsibility or reheated Milton Friedman, but a call for more robust government oversight and regulation, including antitrust actions and a rebalancing of power from the top 1 % and corporations. Larry and Sergey weren't being disingenuous when they founded Google as a different kind of company or adopted Don't Be Evil as their guiding principle. In their original paper introducing the Google search engine, they included an appendix about the evils of advertising. Quote, Advertising-funded search engines will be inherently biased toward the advertisers and away from the needs of the consumers.
13:33Unquote. I'm sure they believed that, because it's true. Their original sin was naivete, not deceit. They thought they could defy gravity. Likewise, I don't believe that John D. Rockefeller founded Standard Oil intending to heat the planet to an unlivable temperature, or that the thousands of good people who work at Chevron or Exxon or Shell are rooting for the mass migrations and economic collapse their continued carbon production will cause. All the worst people in the world didn't decide to go work for tobacco companies in the 20th century, nor have Meta's recruiters developed a skills-based assessment to find evil geniuses.
14:19There are bad people in business, and immoral conduct, recruiting underage children to a product that gnaws at their mental health, promoting anti-Semitism, remains immoral. We should call bad acts out where we see them and withhold our business or capital from bad actors when we can. but don't expect it to change anything. As the late Charlie Munger put it, quote, show me the incentive and I will show you the outcome. Unquote. If you could keep the executives and change the incentives versus change the executives and keep the incentives, I'd argue door one is the better way to go. And the upside incentives are most definitely in place.
15:15There is no country on earth minting as many millionaires and billionaires as the U.S. Regardless of the odds and the harsh reality that success is more about when and where you are born than your talent, most Americans believe they have a shot at extraordinary prosperity. And that's a good thing. We can't and shouldn't weaken the pull of capital. The profit motive is capitalism's driving force, and it's driven a greater increase in prosperity than any other human creation. The problem is our better angels are outmatched. We need counterweights to the incremental rationalizations made in conference rooms named only good news.
16:01It's the lack of regulation and the disincentives that have let externalities run amok. Government prosecutors sending SBF and, likely, Zhao to prison Will do more to clean up crypto than any ESG fund overcharging investors If we want to stop Meta from sending images of nooses to bullied young girls We need to make that behavior a crime Or at least, let those girls' parents sue I.e. reform Section 230 as I advocated for before Therefore, ESG and ineffective altruism are heat shields against real limits on action. They allow corporations to retain their power and their capital while expectorating exhaust into a headwind.
16:52Every time I write about the abuses of tech companies, I get the response, quote, Well, if you don't like the companies, don't use their products, unquote. This is the cry of the defeated. Those so broken on the wheel of corporate exploitation, they've unilaterally disarmed, abandoning the one power we the people possess that's equal to capital. Democracy. It's not up to each of us to protect the Commonwealth. It's up to all of us. Put another way, the most effective ESG is not a fund charging higher fees to invest in American Airlines. It's a perp walk.
17:41Life is so rich. Thank you.
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18:52Investing involves risk, including potential loss of principal LPL Financial LLC member FINRA, SIPC.
From the publisher
As read by George Hahn.
https://www.profgalloway.com/mammon/
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