$10k a Month Helping Babies and Toddlers Sleep (Greatest Hits)

27:04And for me to paint a picture of what it would look like for us to work together and how I can help, how I can solve that problem that they have. So they know, most of them know that that 15 minute call is really just to make sure that we jive, we get along, and then they decide whether or not they want to hire me. And, you know, I sit there and I listen to their struggle. I share how I can help. I explain what the process looks like. And then I explain to them that if they would like to work together, they head to my website and sign on to work together. And then for me, it's about 48 hours to turn around a sleep plan and get started on working towards their children sleeping more independently.

27:46Okay. Yeah. They're not expecting to have all their problems solved in 15 minutes. Do you have prices listed on your website? I do. Yeah. I think that that's important. I understand in some industries that is more complicated, but in my situation, I think that they need to know. I don't really want to be getting on phone calls with people only for them to hear my pricing and think it's outrageous or whatever, you know, that just feels like a huge waste of time. So I'm really transparent about pricing. It's always like, you know, if, if it's all the, you know, call us for a quote or request a consultation, it's like, if you have to ask, it's probably not going to be a good number.

28:25So yeah, be upfront with it, save everybody some time and heartache. And just, it makes a lot of sense to be upfront about that. And so you're working with clients who are going to be a good fit. And then they're going into that consultation, likely knowing what comes out the other end. Do you have a sense of the typical conversion rate, so to speak, of somebody jumping on the call with you to becoming a client? I really don't keep track. I really don't. So the thing about me is, like, I'm not a computer person. Like, I always joke, like, how successful would I be if I actually knew how to work my own computer?

29:02You know, like I am not one to track data and have spreadsheets. And I'm just, you know, I'm getting on calls with people. And if they hire me, they hire me. And if they don't, they don't. I used to spend a lot of time keeping track of who I had spoken to and following up with them. I do believe that to some degree, the fortune's in the follow-up. But as my business has grown, I've just come to a point where I'm sort of good with whatever happens. If they hire me, great. If not, I've moved on. And I'm busy. So I'm not as, I'm not worried about it. Yeah. Yeah. Versus I'm going to grow a team and I'm going to franchise this thing out.

29:39And maybe this is a good transition point. So you're getting questions from parents all day long, but I get the sense that you're also starting to get questions from other moms or other parents saying like, well, I, you know, how could I do what you do? And this is the, the birth of the online course side of the business. Let's talk about that, that transition. Sure. So a few reasons for why I decided to create my own certification course. One, I'm just sort of hungry when it comes to business. I like the feeling of being successful and growing and always challenging myself. And creating my own certification course felt like the best way to level up for lack of a better way of explaining it.

30:26I also saw that the other sleep consultant certification courses on the market were lacking in certain areas that I felt like were pretty, it was pretty like substantial what was lacking. And I felt like I could fill that gap and provide a higher level of support, a higher level of mentorship. And, you know, I also place a really heavy emphasis on business building and entrepreneurship in my program, which I don't think other courses on the market are really doing. This was sort of what I saw missing. I, I saw these women coming out of these programs and they were trained to be sleep consultants, but they weren't trained to grow a business.

31:06And they really lacked that understanding of how to find clients, how to network, how to grow, how to just like logistically set yourself up. They weren't given the tools to have the proper mindset to be successful. And these were all things that some, most of which came, I think, a little bit naturally to me, but it's also what I really love. I love the entrepreneurial side of having a sleep consulting business. So I thought it would be frankly, just really fun to coach and inspire others to have a similar level of success. Yeah. There's two sides to this. There's learn how to do the thing and then learn how to go get customers for that thing.

31:50And so touching on both of those makes a lot of sense. So this is at the cpsm.com, Center for Pediatric Sleep Management. I am checking the site out now. On the certification thing, so you can just create your own certification and say, you know, give it an official sounding name and now customers are certified. Yeah. So the universe of sleep consulting is really an unregulated field, which I have mixed feelings about because I do think that it would be nice to have some standards within the industry, within the field. But I also think that the work we do is we're essentially we're parenting coaches.

32:36We are coaching parents through the process of teaching their child to fall asleep and back to sleep independently. There's nothing dangerous. There's nothing risky. There's nothing medical about the work that we're doing. So, you know, in some respects, I sort of think, do we really need to be regulated? You know, we're just we're coaching parents through something that feels hard, just sort of like potty training, right? They're actually potty training consultants. I don't know if you know that. But you would never think that potty training consultants, that that needs to be a regulated field, right?

33:07Like you just coach parents through the process of potty training their kids. And I think sleep training is very similar. Yeah. And I'm not trying to make light of it because I see other online programs doing the same thing. So I just had to bring up LoanSigningSystem.com. This is Mark Wills, and we've had several of his students on the show as well, teaching people how to become mobile notary loan signing agents. And he says, you know, at the very top of the thing is America's number one notary public loan signing agent training course and certification. So it's like, and if it becomes big enough, if you become kind of the go-to brand in that space, then all of a sudden your certification starts to hold some merit, hold some weight with potential customers and say, okay, you know, you had some education in this space.

33:54We're good to go on this. Tell me about the, I guess, initial traction or was there any like pre-sales or market research that went into creating this course? Did you have a waiting list of moms who wanted to sign up? Yeah. So this was like really outside of my wheelhouse, if I'm being completely honest. Like, you know, creating a digital course, creating the curriculum for a digital course. I had never even heard of platforms, you know, all the learning platforms like Thinkific and Teachable and Kajabi. Like I literally didn't know what any of those were and I didn't know how any of them worked.

34:31And I didn't even have an email list. I didn't have, I wasn't working with, now I have ActiveCampaign, but like, you know, when I was just doing consulting, I wasn't using MailChimp or Constant Contact or anything like that. I really sort of had to get my act together I hired somebody to help me write the course curriculum because I had never done that before. This is what she does professionally. And I literally, I sent her six books. I got on a million Zooms with her. We literally outlined the course module by module. I taught her everything I knew. After I would tell her something, I'd say, okay, then go to this book and read about it here and then write up this.

35:15She helped me to create this whole curriculum. and we put it on Thinkific. And I just started, I started list building, but literally I was building it in a Google doc. You know, I was meeting people in Facebook groups that were maybe interested in becoming a sleep consultant. And I would tell them, you know, my course is launching in three months. Can I just grab an email from you? And when it does, I'll make sure that you get emails and information about it. And so I was having these conversations in Facebook DMs. And then I had my Google Doc of like their names and their emails. So I think by the time I launched my course, I had about 300 people on my email list.

35:59Wow, very grassroots, kind of like one on one hand to hand list building. Yeah. More with Jane in just a moment, including how she uses a Facebook group to connect with qualified prospects and the other tools and tech she swears by right after this. A lot of side hustlers suffer from what if-itis. What if it doesn't work? What if I don't have the skills? What if I pick the wrong path? But one thing 100 % of our amazing guests have in common is they took their shot. They phased down those what ifs and they got their answers through taking action. Our partner Shopify helps turn what ifs into why nots.

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37:09Go to shopify.com slash side hustle. Shopify.com slash side hustle. One of the tools I personally see make a huge difference for business owners is Quo, formerly OpenPhone. It's the same great business phone system you've heard me talk about before, just with a new name. When you're running a business, you know that every missed call is a missed opportunity. So Quo, formerly OpenPhone, this is the number one business phone system that streamlines your customer communications. It works through an app on your phone or your computer. So no more using your personal number as your business line, no more carrying two phones around.

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38:23And if you've got existing numbers with another service, quo will port them over at no extra charge. Whoa, no missed calls, no missed customers. Yeah, and so what was great was that not only did I have their name and email, but I had also previously connected with them in Facebook Messenger. So like I had access to having conversations with them. You know, it wasn't like just sending an email that somebody was gonna delete. It was like, I could actually send them a Facebook message and I could see whether or not they read it. And then hopefully they'd respond, you know, but it was a little bit more like personal access.

38:58than just an email. So when the course was finally ready to launch, I did have a presale. And for, I think it was like seven to 10 days, the course was pretty heavily discounted. And during that launch, I think I sold about seven courses. And then a few days later, my goal was 10. I know that. And I know that I didn't make my goal in the initial launch, But literally a few days later, I was up to 10. So I was very close to making my goal. And that was from a list of about 300 people. So I think that was like, it was pretty decent for a launch. Yeah, like a 3 % conversion rate. I don't know what's good or bad, but, you know.

39:41I think it was considered to be decent or I felt good about it, you know. That's what counts. Yeah, whatever. And then so I just sort of kept plugging along. And I would just keep adding people to my email list. And I was everybody I was in touch with. Again, this was like connecting with people in Facebook groups. And for this side of my business, I was sort of hunting around in more entrepreneurial type Facebook groups, talking to women that were teachers, nurses, paralegals, hairstylists, really anybody, but that were sort of unhappy in their career, looking for a passion project. and I would just put them into my email list and I would also just keep in touch with them in Facebook Messenger, you know, over time that built.

40:29And eventually, I don't know how long it was after I started the course, but I created my own Facebook group, which is called Becoming a Sleep Consultant. That was a real turning point for my business and how I grew the course because now I sort of use that Facebook group as the top of my funnel. and I bring people from various Facebook groups over to my Facebook group and nurture my audience there. They still get all of my emails, but it's a good way to sort of educate them on what it looks like to become a sleep consultant and then provide information on what my program specifically looks like and the value that I offer.

41:09Okay, let's talk about the group at the top of the funnel. So now I'm on the Becoming a Sleep Consultant group. I think Facebook is an underrated search engine in that sense. Well, if somebody searches sleep consultant, you know, you want to show up. If somebody searches side hustle, I want the side hustle nation Facebook group to show up as a top of the funnel entry point. If Facebook is going to send me free traffic, I will take it. So how does this, how does this work? Somebody comes to this page for the first time or this group for the first time. So they come to the group either because just like you said, they searched sleep consultant and because that's in the name of my group, they just find it.

41:45Or I found them in another Facebook group and encourage them to join my Facebook group. And they have to answer a few membership questions, one of which is, would you like to receive my free ebook on becoming a sleep consultant, which opts them into my email. So if they share an email, then I plop them into my email address. I add them into the Facebook group and I will either tag them in. I have a welcome post at the top of my group, which is just sort of like a 20 minute rundown of everything they need to know. I'll either tag them there, or if they join the group, one of the questions I think I ask them is like, do you have any questions about becoming a sleep consultant?

42:23If they ask a question that I've already answered in the Facebook group, I do a lot of lives in that community, just answering questions that come up regularly. So, you know, if their question is, how do I choose a sleep consultant certification program. Well, I've done a live on that exact topic. So if that's their question, I tag them there and they can watch that. And sort of that gets them sort of hopefully more interested in what I do. I also send every single person that joins my Facebook group a message just to introduce myself, let them know that they can ask me questions in Facebook messenger anytime.

43:01And it just sort of opens up the communication and, you know, gets us talking. Yes. This is something that, and not that 3000 is a small audience, but 3000 members today, it's something that a smaller group, a more intimate group can really do and really have an advantage over, uh, over a larger group where it's like, I couldn't DM everybody who requested to join. So I think that's actually really cool. And that's an advantage that you may have starting out and really have this one-on-one touch point. Are you doing manually when somebody requests this, um, to the email opt-in thing when, with the membership questions?

43:38I was for a long time, uh, which was brutal. And then, then somebody told me that I could use one of those little like Chrome plugins to do it all for me. And that actually has been totally life-changing. I think it's called, I want to say it's called group leads. Yes. Group leads is the one I'm using. I love it. It's like the coolest piece of software. Life-changing. Yeah. So, you know, they request to join. I accept them using the group leads, little red button, and it automatically sends them a welcome message, personalized welcome message. It automatically opts them into my emails if they've agreed to be opted into emails and that gets it started.

44:19Yeah. Now they're in active campaign. Now they're part of the system versus just being another person on Facebook. It gets more touch points and does it in an automated way. So I've really been happy with that. Released for the last seven, eight months I've been on group leads. Definitely a game changer for sure. Okay, so now you have opportunity to communicate with people. You're answering questions. You're like, if you have any questions, oh, we already covered that in this live. And so now they're watching this video and they're building a deeper relationship with you. And then for the course itself, is this on a open and close cart?

44:52Is it evergreen? Is it always available? What's the strategy there? It's always available. I've had strategists, coaches tell me to do it differently. You know, everybody has a different opinion about this, but my course is always available. And I like it to be that way because I like for a person to register here, a person to register there. You know, if I have 20 or 30 people registering at once, it's actually overwhelming for me on like the onboarding side. And then also there are a few assignments that I have to grade throughout their, you know, going through the course. And it actually is really nice to have them all staggered so that they're turning in assignments at different times.

45:32I actually had a crazy, crazy busy month this past November. I ran a Black Friday sale and now I'm sort of on the struggle bus because they're all wrapping up the course. So, you know, I'm paying the price for that right now. So it's nice when they trickle in. Okay. Okay. Is there anything to encourage people to get off the fence and just do it? Or just like, hey, the price is the price, whether you jump in this week or next week or next month, whenever it's right for you, doesn't matter to me. So I do offer sales pretty regularly. It works, you know, giving people a couple hundred dollars off the price of the course makes them feel like they are winning, you know?

46:17So I do that from time to time. I also often will, you know, if I get on a call with somebody and they, they seem like really, really ready and they just need a push, I will offer them sort of a personalized flash sale code. You know, if you sign up within the next 72 hours, I'll give you$250 off, you know, and the code is Anna 250, like their name and 250 after. And you need to set that up in the Thinkific, like admin dashboard. So I used to use Thinkific for my checkout cart and I've since moved over to Thrivecart, which has been just a world of difference. But yeah, same thing. Okay. Basically.

47:00Lots of friends on Thrivecart. It must be, I'm an affiliate of several Thrivecart users, but have not used it as a shopping cart myself, but know that lots of other people are on it. So some safety in numbers there for sure. What was the advantage of running checkouts through there versus just sign up directly through Thinkific? So Thinkific is amazing in almost every single way except for their checkout cart. Thinkific's checkout cart, I really do love that platform, but their checkout cart is, I think, a two-step process. So you have to first put in your name and your email and your this and your that.

47:39And then you go to the next page and it's your credit card. And I think by the time people get to their second page, it's like, then they start to hesitate. And it's crazy. But when you're making a big purchase, my course is almost$2 ,500. So when you're making a big purchase, in that split second, you could get cold feet and just change your mind. And actually, I was noticing that that was happening because you have to first register as a user in Thinkific before you can purchase something. So I would get an email that a new user had registered, but I didn't get the email that they had checked out.

48:18So like, that's exactly what was happening is they were like registering and then they were changing their mind. And I felt like that was a major problem, you know, it kept happening. So I investigated. Cause I'm on, I'm on a teachable and it's, it's the same. Sometimes I'll get notifications like, Like, oh, so-and-so registered for your school, but then there's no like second email. They're like, oh, they actually registered for the class. Yeah, they're changing their minds in that split second. And Thrivecart is a one page, like it's literally name, email, credit card, boom, done. And then whatever information you need later, you can get that later, you know?

48:57Okay. And they're still doing as a one-time fee, like lifetime license for Thrivecart? Yes. Okay. So it layers on top of Thinkific and then it syncs over the customer data through Zapier or just it happens automatically? Yeah, no, it's Zapier. Okay. Like two years ago, I had no idea what Zapier was. I had no idea what any of this stuff was. So it was a huge learning curve for me. I love it. And that's a great sign that you can learn new things. We had somebody recently said, like, you know, if you had asked me five years ago, would I be involved in running a website and affiliate marketing and SEO?

49:35I would have told you you were crazy. And it's like, yes, you can learn new things. I love that. Anything else on the tools and tech side that you swear by? So my favorite, favorite tool, which I mentioned a little bit earlier, is my Acuity Calendar. I feel like I can't live without that. it makes it so much easier for me to schedule both calls with clients, prospective clients, and then also do things on the student side of things. When my students complete the certification course, I offer them what I call a Zoom strategy session. So we get on Zoom for about 45 minutes and just answer any of their lasting questions, whether they be sleep-related, business-related.

50:13And I love that when they finish the course, it can just automatically send them an email, like congratulations on finishing the course. Here's your link to schedule your Zoom strategy session. And then we just pop up on Zoom together. It's the best. So I love Acuity. I like Zoom. I use Canva a lot for my business. I find that it's really easy to put together things that are relatively beautiful and professional for your business on Canva, which I would never be able to do without. And then I recently moved my website over. it was on WordPress. And I was always struggling with my WordPress website because I didn't know how to use it.

50:54I didn't know how to make changes. I didn't know how to, it just felt really overwhelming and techie for me. So I moved it over to a platform called ShowIt, which still uses the WordPress blog. So from an SEO perspective, it's still really strong, but the ShowIt website sort of operates like Canva and I can go in and just make changes really easily. It's almost like I'm a web developer. It's crazy. All right. Yeah. I was trying to, you know, view source on your site just now to see like, well, what are you running? It doesn't look like WordPress. I did see that show it show up in the code. Uh, well, cool.

51:26Thanks for sharing all of those different tools. I think that ends up being how a lot of people do it. You know, it's, it's taping a bunch of stuff together that meet your needs and really the website and the email list, the active campaign kind of at the core of that. Anything that you do differently or anything that surprised you on either side, either the service side or the online course side in the last two, three years? I don't know. I don't know what I do differently because I don't really know what anybody else is doing. I'm on my own, you know, I'm on my own path. I'm in a competition with myself.

52:02I'm not really looking at my competitors. Like I really do feel like there's enough business to go around both on the consulting side and on the course side. There are plenty of tired parents. There are enough tired parents to warrant as many sleep consultants that they're, you know, it doesn't matter. And then, and then same thing with the course, you know, I think that my audience for my course is perfect for me. And then there are other programs that probably attract an audience that's more appropriate for them. The key to my success, I think has been to just like keep challenging myself and always trying new things and then also seeking support when necessary.

52:42I hire virtual assistants to help me with tech stuff that feels really hard. Active campaign in particular is something that's really overwhelming to me. I know how to send like a one-off email campaign, but if I were to try and create a whole automation or to tag people in certain ways, I would lose my mind. I don't know how to do any of that. So, you know, instead of me freezing up and not doing things, I just pay somebody to do it for me and move on. On that front, is there an automated welcome sequence or sales pitch once somebody, either they find you, you add them to the list manually, or they get added through the Facebook group and the group leads integration?

53:23Is there like a three, four, five email sequence that ultimately leads to a sales pitch? Yeah. So when they first enter my email list, they get access to my ebook on becoming a sleep consultant, they get a download of the course syllabus. And then, you know, I think it's seven emails in the welcome sequence that ultimately ends with an offer. And, you know, they, if they book a call with me on that, you know, sixth or seventh email, I think they will be eligible for a$250 discount on the price of the course. And, you know, they book that call. I have the code ready to go for them. And hopefully that converts.

54:06And then after that welcome sequence, it's me winging it to be completely honest. I send emails based on what's going on. I was just on a podcast the other day that dropped, you know, yesterday or the day before. So I sent out an email like, Hey, I was on this podcast. You know, if you want to take a listen, here's the link. if I share something interesting in the Becoming a Sleep Consultant Facebook group, I'll send out an email like, in case you missed it, this is what we talked about in the Facebook group today. Okay. You know, every once in a while I get antsy and offer a flash sale. I'm totally winging it there.

54:45Totally winging it. You get antsy like if it's been, you know, a couple weeks of a dry spell, is that what would cause that? Yeah. Like sometimes, I don't know. Sometimes I'm just like, yeah, exactly. What should I do? you know? So breathe, breathe some new life into it. Okay. Yeah, exactly. And it works for me. So, you know, sometimes I feel like I'm throwing spaghetti at the wall and then sometimes I feel like I have my finger on the pulse of what's working. Um, I don't know, either way is fine. I think the combination of those two things is entrepreneurship in a nutshell, right? You got to throw the spaghetti and then double down on the spaghetti that's working.

55:20So I like that. Yeah, exactly. Um, given, given the price point,$2 ,000 and up, do you find that most of the sales are coming through these phone consultations or are people kind of ordering just a la carte on their own without booking a call? So I get really excited when somebody pays for my course and they haven't spoken to me. That really lights me up because that just means they've been lurking either in my Facebook group and they like what they've seen. They don't feel the need to talk to me. Or just yesterday, somebody enrolled in my course that told me she found me on Google, which is very exciting because I'm really not doing much to warrant any significant placement on Google.

56:05It's on my list of things to do, but I am starting to hear that more and more. And that's really exciting because that means that my website is making people feel comfortable with my offer and my program. And, you know, I don't know that that really lights me up when somebody signs up without talking to me, that just feels amazing. I do have an affiliate program where, uh, you know, if somebody refers somebody to my program, they get a commission and I have a few affiliates really actually one or two that seem to have a lot of authority within their own communities. And, you know, when we run a promotion together, I do, those do convert because their audience is trusting them.

56:52So then they trust me. And that works really nicely. I don't often have to get on calls when we run those promotions. Okay. Yeah. I just was curious about that. You know, sometimes some, I've heard that$2 ,000 is the kind of upper limit of what people will buy without, you know, getting on the phone. And so it's like, you know, I was curious to test out, well, is that a true assumption or is that just a thing. But it's cool that you offer the phone consultation as a last or as a next step. So, you know, I like to talk to people before they enroll in my course because, you know, I really do treat my course as a community.

57:30It really does feel like a family of friends or colleagues. And it really helps me to know who they are. I like to get on a Zoom and see them face to face and hear their little two-year-old crying in the background. You know, I like to know what their story is and feel like I've connected with them so that I can better support them. What's the breakdown if you're comfortable sharing between the sleep consulting work and the core sales today as the picture of the revenue pie? Again, like I have no stats on anything, but most of it is core sales just based on, you know, the price that I'm selling the course versus the price that I'm offering my two-week consultation, you know?

58:13So it's mostly income from course sales at this point. That being said, I'm busy with clients. I have six or seven clients on my roster right now. So it's not like I'm not supporting families, but if you're looking at the dollars, most of the dollars are coming from course sales. Yeah. You got to stay in the game, you know, so you know what to do in the next version of the course. Where do you want to take this thing? What's next for you? I don't know. I would love to find somebody to help me to sell the course, you know, sort of like build out a sales team a little bit. I'm having trouble finding that person because all of the people that are great, that have taken my course that, you know, I've approached about this, they're really excited about growing their own businesses.

58:59They, they're not really concerned with growing mine, which I totally, which I totally respect. So I'd love to find somebody or build a little bit of a team. I'd also love to figure out how to make the internet work for me a little bit better. I mentioned, you know, working on some SEO, making that a bit of a priority. I did just hire a Pinterest manager to help me grow my presence on Pinterest, which we literally just started. I think it's been a month and a half since we started, maybe two months. So just getting the internet to work for me a little bit better rather than me hustling so hard all of the time would be amazing.

59:40But I also think in the same breath, I'm the type to always hustle. So even if the internet is working for me, I'm still going to do what I do. I guess it's just going to allow me to grow. It's a good feeling when you can get the internet to work for you. People are finding you organically and signing up for your things and buying your stuff. That's a great feeling. and I'm confident that you'll get there. It sounds like you're already halfway there. It's slowly happening. You know, the Google thing, it's happened a few times in the past couple of months. You know, when somebody signs up for my course, there's a little line, how did you hear about CPSM?

1:00:13And a few times people have said, Google. I'm like, really? What? You know, so it is starting to happen. And so I guess I have to just keep doing what I'm doing. But I would love for that to happen a little bit more. You doing anything with paid ads? No, I have dabbled in paid ads a teeny tiny bit from time to time. And it just feels like a really expensive way to list build with the wrong people. That's my experience. And so it hasn't made sense for me. I don't want to pay for people to be added to my email list. My product is expensive, so I can't just put up an ad for somebody to buy my course.

1:00:56They're not going to see an ad and pay$2 ,500 for a course. They're going to want to see an ad and opt in to learn more about my course. Right. So it just feels like a really expensive way to list build. I I'm good at list building. I'm good at getting out there and talking to people and connecting with people that are legitimately interested in what I have. And I think I'm, I'm better at that than what any ad would do for me. And then it just becomes more expensive to have all these people on my list that are, that are the wrong people. The reason I ask is it's such a niche, or at least from the outside looking in, it seems like such a niche service or certification where it's like, you know, become a certified sleep consultant.

1:01:33Like how many other people could be bidding on that keyword in Google? And it's like, well, if you're using the Facebook group as top of the funnel, we'll opt in for the free ebook guide to this and get the core syllabus. It's like, could you do that? Same thing. I don't know how, maybe those ads would be prohibitively expensive, but it's like, you know, it might be worth, you know, if it were to be like, well, if I could, I shortcut my exposure in Google in SEO by buying my way to the top of the results. And it's like, well, I was paying 50 bucks a lead and the conversion rate just didn't shake out.

1:02:05Then maybe not, maybe not so much, but you know, might be worth, might be worth a test, but I'm not in charge. It definitely, no, it definitely is worth a test. It's just, you know, this is one area where I do feel like it's tricky to find the right people to support you until I find that right person. I don't want to just throw a bunch of money at something. You know, I already have a system that's working. And, you know, even, even just like my SEO has gotten better. So, uh, and I do, I have somebody that blogs for me. So like, maybe that's working. I don't know, but I, I would like to just, I don't know.

1:02:41I, you're right. I should probably do that at some point. The secret is finding the right person to help because I can't do it myself that it's outside of my wheelhouse. It's a learning curve, especially I feel like Google. Well, you know, my background was in paid ads like 15 years ago. And the ads, Google ads platform is so much more complex than it was at that point, all the different ways you can slice the data and the targeting and everything. And then Facebook is another black box of, you know, ad optimization and audience targeting and everything. But that's something that just came to mind.

1:03:15So, you know, yeah, you're right. I don't know. Um, but it sounds like things are going awesome for you. The snoozefest.com. If you are a parent struggling with getting your kids to sleep, Check Jane out over there and the cpsm.com for the sleep certification, sleep consultant certification program. Appreciate you joining me, sharing the ins and outs of all this stuff. Let's wrap this thing up with your number one tip for Side Hustle Nation. I guess my number one tip is to brush the fear aside. I think that when it comes to entrepreneurship or really just like making any big leap or choice, like everybody's scared, right?

1:03:54Like everybody has fear or anxiety around starting something new. And the people that are successful are scared and do it anyway. And the people that do nothing are scared. So they do nothing, right? So like everybody has this fear. And if you can be one of those people that just pushes through and tries, then I think you're ahead of most of the others. I think you're right on that 100%. Like progress happens just beyond your comfort zone. Brush the fear aside. Everybody's scared. The people who got off the sidelines are the ones who pushed that fear aside just for a moment. Jane, this has been awesome.

1:04:34Just some final thoughts or, you know, kind of big ideas for me from this episode. The first was this idea of being expert enough where you're already answering people's questions and maybe you weren't the world's, you know, foremost leading sleep scientist expert, but you're new enough to be dangerous and you invested in yourself in the training certification. Like, look, I know what I'm talking about. I can help people with this. People are seeing results. And that's part of this brushing fear aside. I think the idea of creating your own certification program, like we kind of talked about, it's a pretty cool idea.

1:05:09And there's something that could gain traction. And it's, you know, for better or worse, like you said, it's something you can just kind of put your own stamp on. We had, when I was running the virtual assistant site, I had a little badge that I would put on the reviews for the companies that I had tested. And it just said, you know, virtual assistant, assistant tested. It didn't say certified or approved or anything, although it could have. It was something that I thought about adding, you know, maybe the companies could put their, you know, they could put that certification badge like down at the bottom.

1:05:38Like, oh, they were certified by this, you know, random dude in his, you know, spare bedroom. But whatever it was. So I think that was really cool. And then this, you know, one of the common threads, just, you know, meet your customers where they're at. If they're on Facebook, great. If they're not on Facebook, you'll go find another way to connect with them. Like you mentioned, through different networking opportunities, other people who are already talking to them. You know, it's the pediatricians and the librarians. We had Riley Jarvis on the show a couple of months ago, who was a sleep consultant in a totally different niche.

1:06:11She was targeting executives. And so he would go and connect with them through LinkedIn. And it was, you know, different audience, different platforms. So go where your customers already are. but really appreciate you joining me, Jane. Thanks for sharing your insight. Once again, the full text summary and links to all the resources mentioned for this one are at sidehustlenation.com slash Jane, J-A-Y-N-E. While you're there, make sure to download my free list of 101 service business ideas that you may be able to apply some of Jane's same strategies to and get those creative juices flowing. That is it for me.

1:06:42Thank you so much for tuning in. Until next time, let's go out there and make something happen and I'll catch you in the next edition of the Side Hustle Show. So, hustle on.