In short
The Side Hustle Show - Episode 570: A 6-Figure Online Business, Starting as a Side Hustle
Summary In this episode of The Side Hustle Show, host Nick Loper interviews Steven Foust, a retired Army Chief Warrant Officer who transitioned from a corporate executive role to focus on his side hustle, NCOonFire.com. Steven discusses how he built a six-figure online business that helps Army soldiers get promoted faster while earning $14,000 a month. The episode covers key insights into identifying business ideas, marketing tactics, and how to create a sustainable income stream.
Key Topics Discussed
Transitioning from Corporate to Entrepreneurship
- Background: Steven left a corporate executive position, which he referred to as "golden handcuffs," after realizing he wanted more control over his career.
- Financial Preparation: He had saved a nest egg prior to leaving his job, which allowed him to take this leap of faith.
Building NCOonFire.com
- Business Idea: Steven identified his unique knowledge of military promotion systems as a viable niche.
- First Steps:
- Initially built a website using basic tools, which did not generate sufficient traffic.
- Pivoted to affiliate marketing by partnering with established websites related to military promotions.
Marketing and Sales Strategies
- Affiliate Partnerships: Steven reached out to website owners with relevant traffic and offered them a share of sales, which effectively introduced his products to a larger audience.
- Traffic Generation:
- Utilized SEO and organic traffic strategies to rank on Google.
- Leveraged social media, particularly Facebook groups and pages, to engage with potential customers.
Income Stream Strategies
- Recurring Revenue Models: Discussed the importance of creating membership models and digital products that cater to specific needs of military personnel.
- Email Marketing: Steven emphasizes the necessity of building an email list to nurture leads and convert them into paying customers through strategically designed funnels.
Product Offerings and Membership
- Membership Price Points: His membership is priced at $39/month, providing additional resources and support for members.
- Value Proposition: Offers unlimited one-on-one mentorship (through an asynchronous video platform) and additional digital products for members.
Optimizing Email Funnels
- Funnel Creation: Steven employs a “funnel of decision” strategy, sending regular emails to drive engagement and prompt purchasing decisions.
- Metrics Tracking: Focuses on key performance indicators, such as conversion rates and churn rates, to assess and improve his business model.
Key Takeaways
- Know Your Value: Reflect on your unique skills and knowledge; this can be the basis for a successful business idea.
- Start Small and Pivot: Don’t be afraid to test and pivot your strategies as necessary.
- Leverage Partnerships: Collaborate with others who already have an audience that aligns with your product.
- Email is King: Build and maintain an email list to consistently communicate with and nurture leads.
- Continuous Improvement: Always look for opportunities to optimize your funnels and marketing strategies.
Conclusion Steven Foust's journey from a corporate job to successfully running a lucrative online business serves as an inspirational case study for anyone considering entrepreneurship. His insights on leveraging existing knowledge, creating value through products, and employing effective marketing strategies provide a roadmap for aspiring side hustlers and entrepreneurs.
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Find More Resources:
- [NCOonFire.com](https://ncoonfire.com)
- [Online Income Coach](https://onlineincome.coach)
- [The Side Hustle Show](https://www.sidehustlenation.com)
For personalized business strategies and actionable tips, follow the Side Hustle Show, where you can find hundreds of episodes offering practical advice for growing your side hustle.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00A six-figure online business starting as a side hustle. What's up? What's up? Nick Loper here. Welcome to the side hustle show. Now a proud member of the entrepreneur podcast network. It's the business podcast. you can actually apply. And you're going to want to take some notes today because we're covering how to turn what you already know into an online income stream, and perhaps better yet, a recurring online income stream. Stephen Faust is here. He's a longtime listener, a retired Army Chief Warrant Officer and non-commissioned officer. He recently left his corporate executive position to take his online side hustles full time.
0:36The primary of those is ncoonfire.com, where he helps Army soldiers get promoted faster and earns$14 ,000 a month in the process. Stephen, welcome to The Side Hustle Show. Hey, Nick. I'm glad to be here. You're right. I'm a longtime listener. Love the show. I just can't wait to talk with you today about what I'm doing. You met me as well. Stick around in this one to learn how Stephen came up with the idea, the marketing and sales tactics that are working today, and how to give yourself a raise each and every month. But first, if you're new to the show, you might be intimidated by the 550 plus episodes in the archives.
1:11Well, fear not, because I've got you covered. All you got to do is go to hustle.show, answer a few short multiple choice questions, and I'll build you a custom curated playlist of the episodes I think are going to be most relevant to you. Once again, that's at hustle.show. So Stephen, 18 months ago, you decided to pull the trigger and quit the full-time corporate job, which you called the golden handcuffs, so to speak, and say, I'm going to go all in on this business. Can you talk to me about what the business was doing revenue wise, what it was like to take that leap? Yeah, Nick, I was making about$5 ,000 a month, which was not a lot of money in the big picture, but it was enough to tell me I had a chance to do something different and special.
1:54And one of the things I did is I knew there was a day that was going to come where I was going to make a pivot. I just didn't know when that day was going to be. And for those of you out there who have these corporate jobs, I was a vice president for an aerospace manufacturing company. And every day, 12 hours a day, six, seven days a week, the frustration had really boiled up with me. And I just knew that I was destined to stay in this probably long term and forever if I wasn't willing to make that decision to pivot. And as painful as it was, I woke up one day after a particularly bad day at work and I'm like, I've got to make a change because I'm not making a ton of money now, but I had been smart and saved and kind of put some acorns away in the bank and was thinking about when this day might come.
2:43That day came January 31st of 2022. And I left that job. I didn't look back because I knew if I looked back that I might go back. And that is something I didn't want to do. So I really refocused and doubled down on my efforts to really make this online business thing work. And it's been the best decision of my life. And I have no regrets, Nick, no regrets at all. It's harder. I mean, it was hard for me and I was only 25 when I quit my corporate job for good. It's just like this, you're almost looking for someone else's permission. Like, is this allowed? Is this okay? And the higher you climb on that corporate ladder, the harder it gets.
3:23It's like, oh, I'm walking away from salary and benefits. And, you know, my whole career up until this point, it's difficult to go. But you went about it the right way in that you had built yourself a nest egg or built yourself some runway and you built yourself up some side income that was hopefully covering a decent chunk of your monthly expenses. Now take me back to the decision to say, well, I know I'm going to build an online business and specifically I'm going to build it around helping soldiers get promoted faster. He's been out of the army for years and years at this point. Yeah, a long time.
3:54I got out of active duty in the army in 1998. So we're talking the last century. Yeah, it's been a while, right? And I retired from the army reserve in 2005. So, but one thing I knew as I look back and think about things that I know that I can help people with, one of the things that stood out was I was always good in the military at getting promoted fast, right? And I wasn't the best. I wasn't the smartest. I wasn't the top person in anything that I did. But one thing I did do is I studied the system and the process of how to get promoted fast in the military. And I realized, and this is not a spoiler alert for anyone, you don't have to be the sharpest tool in the drawer to get promoted fast, you've got to know the system.
4:36You've got to know how the army promotes people and what it does. And for me, that was a point system. And I knew that if I could get a certain number of points, I could get promoted faster. So I spent a lot of time studying, figuring out how to get promoted faster. And as a matter of fact, in 1995, I know people can't see this. I wrote a little book in 1995 that I had published. It was a guide. It's called PowerPoints, And it's about helping soldiers get promoted faster to NCO. And that's what I did. And I said, you know what? I have this skill. I have this knowledge. I'm a little outdated. I'll be 56 here in about a month.
5:12So I'm not a spring chicken. But I know some things about getting promoted faster. I wonder what it would look like if I could help other people who are struggling get promoted faster, too. And that's kind of how I started doing this. it's really interesting to go through the exercise of taking inventory of your skills and knowledge what am i better at than the average person where have i seen some level of success in my own life what problems challenges hurdles have i overcome in my own life what do people ask me for help with and even not just recent history sometimes going back like you said to the last century right and saying okay there might be something here and you'd already written the book on it even a decade plus earlier, or two decades earlier.
5:55That's really interesting. Oh, wow, that's a long time ago. Yeah, it really is. You're like, well, is this still relevant? Yeah, there's still soldiers out there. The system still exists. So let me start to put some of this stuff online. Talk me through some of those first steps in reviving that interest or dusting off some of the material in that book to turn it into an online business. Yeah, well, the first thing I did, Nick, was I did the classic things that we tell people not to do once you kind of figure some of this stuff out. I went out and just started building stuff, right? Obviously, if I go build stuff, people are obviously going to come and buy it, even though I don't have any traffic.
6:31So that didn't work out too well for me. So what I did is I went onto Kajabi. I built a one-page website back in the day. It was called armypromotionpoint.com. It doesn't exist anymore. You can go back to the Wayback Machine and check it out. But I built this page and I said, okay, I'm going to use a story brand method, Donald Miller. I kind of looked at that, took some courses on that, did a website on how can I help people get promoted in the army using what I've written about in the past and studying up on it. So I built this site, didn't get much traction, and I was struggling to figure out a way to get traffic.
7:05I knew I could help people, but I also didn't have a mechanism to draw traffic in. And that's where I made a pivot and started to get a little more creative with how I can put my offer, my product, which I shouldn't have built as soon as I did, but I had it. So how do I put it in front of somebody and start to get traction? So that was kind of the next thing I did, which was I partnered with someone that I ran across their websites that they were getting a lot of traffic. And I just found out who they were. I reached out to them, connected with email, they responded. And I said, Hey, I'd love to give you 40 or 50 % of every sale.
7:42If you'll just put my stuff on your website. And that's exactly what he did. And that created kind of the wheel beginning to turn of where I ended up. And I'd love to go into that with you too. Yeah, that's interesting. So what you're saying, don't necessarily do what I did, build the product first, and then like, well, shoot, now who I got to find an audience to sell this to. But the shortcut, and this is a really interesting one, is why go find people who already have relevant traffic and go find and go recruit relevant affiliate partners for this. And that's an interesting shortcut. Yeah, it's expensive.
8:13Yeah, it's going to cost you 50 % of your margin upfront, but 50 % of something is better than 100 % of nothing. You got that right. So starting this affiliate partnership path, you want to expand on that a little bit? Yeah, sure. So I built this course. I just was doing Google, unlike a lot of people, I go in to do Google searches, I'm checking things out, I'm trying to figure out where people are hanging out. So I ran across these two sites, it was called cutoffscores.com, and ncosupport.com. And these two sites were ranking first page of Google for so many of the keywords I was targeting around army promotions and NCOs getting promoted and leadership support and things like that.
8:51So I said, hey, if you can't beat them, join them. So I did like most people, like scrolling around, looking at the footer, trying to figure out how to find this person. So I found this person. His name is Fernando. He lives in Panama. He was an ex-army guy. He got out, he was a medic. And he had these two sites he had had for about 10 years. And he was getting all of this organic traffic. And I said, hey, Fernando, you don't know me, but I have this product I built that I shouldn't have built, right? But I did. Can you just put it on your website? I'll give you a 40 % or 50%. And he said, yeah, whatever.
9:23Because he wasn't monetizing anything except through display ads on Google AdSense. It's the only way he was monetizing his two sites, right? And he was getting about$1 ,500 a month for both of his sites. And he put my stuff out there. I sold five copies of my course that I probably spent two months building thinking it was going to be the next kind of huge thing out there. I sold five copies and he got us 50%. And then that created a relationship. And that's what was so important here is that relationship turned into more of a partnership. And then I got a magical phone call one day that I'll tell you about if you want to go deeper onto what happened next.
10:06Yeah, let's hear it. Yep. So what happened next? He called me up. This was back in the fall of 2020. I had had my website out there trying to get some organic traffic. I didn't run ads, made this product, couldn't sell, but five copies. So he called me up one day and said, Hey, Steven. Yeah, I'm really not into these websites anymore. he was going to medical school to be a doctor and he was doing his, all of his residency stuff and just didn't have time, kind of fell out of love with it. And he says, you know what? I could really use some money for this. Would you be interested in buying my websites?
10:41I said, wait a minute. I have a way now to rank first on Google for all the keywords I want to rank and get there through shortcut it. You got it. And I'm like, Like it wouldn't happen without me reaching out to him and trying to get an affiliate arrangement. He decided he didn't want to do it anymore. He had my number. He called me up. I decided I wanted to do it. And when somebody wants to get in, there's probably somebody that wants to get out somewhere. Right. So I bought both of his sites for$15 ,000 each. Right. So I was in a fortunate position to be able to do that because I was stocking away money, thinking about how my pivot and transition would go at that point.
11:23This is before I left my job. And he sold me these two sites for 15 grand each. I took them. I didn't know what I was going to do with them other than they were ranking. They were good lead generation. He was making 1500 bucks a month. If nothing else, I could continue to do that. He didn't have an email list, didn't have any products, only just ad revenue. And that's kind of where it began with, okay, now I have these assets. Now, what's my next step here? Yeah, these under monetized, underutilized assets that have been around for a while, like aged domains ranking in Google. And now it's almost a blank canvas.
12:04You're like, OK, now I can figure out how to this like the really fun part of the game. Like what are the little tweaks and optimizations? Like, oh, shoot, I could put an ad up here. I could put a link to the product over here. I could add an email opt in all these different things. So that's really interesting. It makes me think of what other niches might this be a viable strategy in? These guys were very prolific in the case they were already ranking in Google. But like, could you find that site that's on page two? Not to say that 30 grand is nothing, but it's not 300 ,000. That's right. It's an interesting way to shortcut.
12:39So what were some of the first actions that you took after acquiring those? Yeah, it's funny. This was, I don't know if you remember this, Nick, but Yahoo Site Builder. Yeah, I definitely built some sites in Yahoo Site Builder. Oh my gosh. These two sites were built. I can't even say they were WordPress sites, right? They were built on Yahoo Site Builder, clunky. I don't even think they had a HTTPS kind of security. Yeah. It was just old site builder, strictly for ad revenue. That's all he did with it. So I got these sites and I started to play with them, trying to figure out what I wanted to do.
13:14And then about three months later, Yahoo announced that they were retiring their site builder that I had until like, I think it was April 1st of 2021 to get these sites off of there. And I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, the cutoff scores was getting three to four hundred thousand page views a month organically, organically and ranking higher than the army itself on all these keywords. Right. It was crazy. So if you just go army promotion points, you're going to see those sites ranking above the army on everything. It's crazy. Then I said, OK, I got to get these sites off here. I have no choice. So I moved them all to WordPress.
13:53I did it myself, did it slowly. I kept, I did all the 301 redirects. I did a lot of study on how to do that. And I protected. That like makes me so nervous. Like, oh, I'm going to break something. I'm going to lose this traffic. Yeah. So I had about a half a million page views per month organically between the two sites. And I was like, oh my gosh, I bought these sites. And if nothing else, I was going to monetize through display ads, if nothing else. Right. So I was able to protect that, got a move to WordPress. Then I took a step back and said, okay, he was doing nothing. What can I do with all this traffic?
14:24So I started to build a couple of products. I built three products. I built some templates for helping NCOs in the Army counsel their soldiers better. This is kind of a template package of PDFs that I wrote and had some examples from my past. I've created a digital package around writing. they're called NCOERS, which is a performance evaluation for soldiers and NCOs in the military. And then I created another one about how to write army awards, which NCOs have to write a lot of army awards for their soldiers to recognize them. And these are three pain points that I discovered through just talking to my audience and beginning to do Google research and things like that, that I knew that there were struggles with.
15:07So I created over a few months, these three products and began to sell those while monetizing with the display ads. Okay. Did you switch ad networks at all or did you just keep running AdSense? I got rejected a few times, but I finally got approved for cutoff scores and NCO support for Monumetric. And then I would say about a year ago, I took NCO support and I moved it to Mediavine. And I'm on Mediavine for NCO support today, Monumetric for cutoff scores. I just keep those ads going because that has always been there. and I'm not creating any new drama for that traffic. Yeah, and I imagine the RPMs for MediaVine especially has got to be way better than AdSense was.
15:51It is, but I think the whole niche is probably depressed from an RPM standpoint compared to like camping or something like that where you can get really favorable RPMs. What's typical for you? Mine are really low. It's like$6 to$10 per thousand. and it's just really low. I'm predominantly not looking at ad revenue as a huge future strategy for myself. I think ultimately what I'd love to do is just get the ads. I have a lot of people telling me that I talk to that I trust, like, look, get all that junk off your site. And the only reason I haven't done it is because it's always been there and whatever.
16:30I'm making passive income from it. But I'd love to get it off of there and replace it with maybe more strategic affiliate revenue and things like that. So I haven't done it yet. I haven't pulled the trigger, but that's something I'm definitely thinking about doing. Feel free to give me a call anytime we talk about affiliate strategy or something. Geek out on affiliate stuff, huh? Yeah, I'm happy to do that. And some articles just aren't well positioned for that just based on search intent and everything else. But always happy to geek out on that. So yes, making passive income from ads, it's always been there.
17:02You know, people expect ads on the internet. I don't think that's a huge detractor. I think the only people who are self-conscious about it our website owners. Yeah. Oh, it clutters up my site. You know, it's like, I don't know, people expect it. They're ad blindness. They just scroll right by them, right? They just. Yeah. I wouldn't stress too much about that. So you build out these three products. I see parallels to finding that landlord who's tired, maybe had a problem tenant, maybe the house needs some work. It's the same idea with these website acquisitions. Like you find something that's probably a little bit undervalued and the guy, his heart isn't in it anymore.
17:39You could see these either proactive outreach through the Google search results, or you can look on marketplaces like Flippa and see what you can find. I got lucky. There's no doubt about it. I walked into a good situation, but it was all created with the relationship in the beginning. And you just never know where those things are going to lead. And when they do pop up and you get those opportunities, I knew it was too good to pass up because I'd always look back and go, man, I wonder what would have happened if I would have just got those websites. Yeah. And by being first name on the Rolodex there, you prevented a auction situation where it went up on a brokerage or something.
18:13And yeah, these sites were horrible, though. These are bad sites. I mean, great domains, great rankings, but really poor quality site. He could have sold them if you'd have been patient and figured it out. It would have been no problem. But the thing I realized in the beginning, though, is that he doesn't have an email list. All I got to do is start using these two sites to drive leads, to drive lead generation to my products. And I've been able to do that. I've just crossed 20 ,000 people on my email list. Wow. And it's crazy that people out there today, if you don't do anything else, you got to get an email list going because that's where your customers are.
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21:04Just go to Indeed.com slash Side Hustle Show right now and support the show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash Side Hustle Show. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring. Indeed is all you need. What did you put up as an opt-in? I put up as an opt-in. My main opt-in today is a calculator. So like ncoonfire.com forward slash calculator is my main opt-in. My two WordPress sites today, Cutoff Scores and NCO Support, they have a lot of calls to action to drive people back to my Kajabi site where my opt-in is on the NCO on Fire site. They go into my calculator, which helps them.
21:44It's a really clear thing, a problem that they need to solve that my customers will need, which is then going to position them for the products that I have. They're going to get this calculator. It's going to help them figure out how many points they have, how many points they can go plan to get and position themselves to get promoted faster. And then what they do is they then go into a funnel. The funnel goes into a tripwire, which they get offered one of my digital products for a discount. They go into a three-day membership funnel. I know we haven't talked about membership yet, but they go into a three-day deadline funnel-driven membership opportunity to get in there at a lower cost.
22:20And then I put them in after that, if they don't buy, I affectionately refer to it as my funnel of death, right? But it's really the D is not death, it's decision. It's the funnel of decision. I want them to clearly decide if I'm their cup of tea, I can help them solve the problems that they have or not. And if they unsubscribe, that's great. That means they're not my ideal customer. So I'm forcing them to make a decision as quickly as possible. They're in or they're out or they're not sure and they'll stick around. I'll keep nurturing them. So I put them through this funnel of death or decision for a period of about 20 to 25 days in a row to really get them uncomfortable with figuring out if they have a problem they really want to get solved or going, you know, you're not my thing.
23:06I'm out. And that's okay, too. Okay. So where you're emailing every day for that three, four weeks and the call to action is join the membership? The call to action is, it's interesting. So the first funnel is a three day membership deadline driven funnel. Then they go into a funnel that begins to take things out of the membership. So I have these counseling things in the membership. I begin like a 10 day sequence where I take one little nugget out and give it to them each day for 10 days. And then say, Hey, if you like that, you can have more come here, come join this, or I'll sell them the, the package, let's say for 30, 40, 50 bucks, and then I'll upsell them back into the membership.
23:42So everything I do, every email I send is designed for them to have a way to give me money, right? They go to a place that they can put their credit card in and make a decision if they want help or not. And if they do, I can help them. I dangle these things in front of them, trying to find out what their problem is at that point that they really want to get solved. So they don't want that? Oh, you don't want this? Okay. How about this? You don't want that? Oh, you don't want that? How about this? And I'll find where they're struggling and then get them to buy maybe a lower ticket product, upsell them back into the membership so I can help them in a deeper way.
24:18Do you have a sense of the metrics or maybe the metrics that you're shooting for? For every person I plug in or every hundred people I plug in at the top of this funnel, how many dollars shakes out at the other end? I look at it a little bit differently. My goal is to get 50 new members per month, right? Now that's 50 new members per month. Now you have churn in there, right? So I have a pretty high churn rate and I used to really struggle with churn rate, churn being the number of people that leave your membership every month. And I used to struggle with that. And here are a lot of the experts and gurus, like if you have a higher than a 5 % churn rate, you don't have a business, you know?
24:55Well, I have like a 10 to 15 % churn rate. And I think it's just the nature of my niche, maybe a little bit differently. At least that's the way I've kind of viewed it analytically. But what I'll do is if I lose one, I'll try to figure out a way to go get two, right? I'll try to just replace. And I have a higher cheer rate because people are coming in and out of the membership because they get promoted and they move on in their career and they kind of outgrow. They outgrow some of the things that I offer because I really narrowly focus to a certain specific set of ranks in the military. Right.
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25:28Yeah. Once you've solved their problem or they've got that promotion. Maybe they'll come back to you when it's time to revisit that. But they're like, I'm probably good for a while. I could see why people would jump out of there after they achieve their goal. Going back to the dollars and cents, do you have a sense for what a new email subscriber is worth? I always have heard that every email subscriber should give you what, a dollar a month or something like that. So I'm making about 20 a month now in total. So that kind of works out in a weird sense of math. Yeah. I don't know. A dollar per subscriber per month.
26:00That's like the Russell Brunson click funnels metric. That's like, gosh, I'm nowhere near that in my business. And maybe, you know, aggressively under monetized. A lot of people say that's too low. You should be getting five or$10 per month. I'm like, well, that would be fantastic. But I don't have a sense exactly of what each email subscriber is worth. Let's say people come into the top of the funnel for the calculator. I get about a 30 % conversion of people landing on the page that convert into an email address. And I'm getting about 1500 to 1800 new organic email addresses a month, which is phenomenal.
26:36That's why I think I need to be really tweaking how I'm monetizing this and optimizing my funnel because I think there's a lot more meat on the bone out there for sure. So I get about a 30 % conversion. They drop in through, I get a very low take rate on the tripwire, which is like a$29 digital product. But I have it out there for those, you got to remember, these are really cold traffic. They've never heard or seen me before. So they're probably not going to buy much right away. But yeah, I offer them the tripwire. I get maybe one or two a day that I'll sell of those. then I put them into the membership funnel.
27:09I'll usually get a couple of members, one to two members a day on average, which I'm really happy with that level. And then if they don't join the membership, they go through the funnel of decision that I'm trying to sell them other things such as, oh, you didn't want the membership because some people are just subscription kind of worn out, right? Because we all have it. I have every Netflix and Paramount Plus and Disney. I have every subscription known to mankind. I know everything. What was the latest one I saw? It was something really random. I think it was like underwear as a subscription.
27:45And I was like, no, no. Why does everything need to be a subscription these days? I don't want to buy a membership for this. You can get Burger King. You can get Starbucks. You can get McDonald's. You can get all of these places now. The car wash. I thought that was actually pretty smart. Like, oh, buying 25 bucks a month. Unlimited car washes. Like, OK, that's actually pretty creative. I actually have two of those. Yeah, I have two of those subscriptions. But yeah, it's like death by a thousand paper cuts. Yeah, it is. But for the people who don't want subscriptions, I try to offer them other things that I believe they could be struggling with.
28:14And because as entrepreneurs, we never know when our ideal customer is going to be at that point of a struggle that they're ready to take action. So the only way to mitigate that from my point of view is to be in their inbox a lot. So when they have that moment of like, I've hit the end of my rope, kind of like I did with my corporate job when I left. It's like, you want to be in their inbox up top where it's like they said, wow, Steven could read my mind. How did you know I was struggling with this today? Well, I didn't. I just sent you 25 emails and finally you're struggling. Finally, this one happened to be the one that resonated.
28:51That's exactly right. And then after the funnel of decision, just kind of a lot like a long-term newsletter sequence, or are you like, if they didn't buy anything, I'm kicking them off. I'm really bad about that, Nick. What I do is I'd love to say that I'm the perfect email nurturer. And once a week, I wish I could say that. I send stuff for people to buy. Maybe this is more of like a Frank Kern approach, right? Which is I send them all these emails up front to try to get them to make a decision. They don't make a decision or they buy and they're off of that or they don't buy and they just stay around or they unsubscribe.
29:24So I'm just assuming that they're on my list because they want to hear about what I can help them with. So instead of nurture them with a bunch of stories and things at that point, that deep into the funnel, I'm like, hey, it's Friday. It's a national Friday. It's a holiday. It's Friday. It's time to buy stuff. Do you want to buy my stuff? And I just, I send them offers. I send them invitations. I like to use the word invitation. It sounds better than a pitch or an offer. It's like, I want to invite you to get some help here. And if you don't want it, we're still friends. I'm not mad at you. Yeah.
29:56But I want to know if today's the day that you've hit the wall. is today the day. All right. I want to get into these different traffic strategies, but real quick, what's the price point on the membership? $39 right now. It's$39 and I'm a serial tester. Okay. Right. I've tested from 19 to 67 and I'm kind of set right now on 39 doing trials, no trials. I'm not doing any trials right now, but that's kind of where I'm at. 39 for a month and 78 for a quarter. You get three months for the price of two if you opt in and take the quarterly offer. Okay. So that's that three-day discounted sequence. Yeah.
30:30Okay. Yeah. You can get into that. And then what's included in that? What's behind the paywall, so to speak? Interestingly enough, what I've learned about memberships from Flip Lifestyle and Shane, my buddy, because I joined their membership in like 2020. And I just learned about memberships and I realized that a recurring, what's better than just selling stuff one-off is getting people to pay you every month. And I leaned into that and my membership includes a lot of the stuff I sell one-off, which is kind of maybe a faux pas in some ways, but my digital products that I sell are inside the membership, right?
31:05Because what I realize is not everybody wants a membership, right? Sometimes they want to buy stuff and sometimes they just want to get more help and support in a membership. So I have all of the things that I sell one-off inside the membership. Plus I have some additional things, some additional workshops. I'll usually add a new workshop once a month, a topic, a leadership topic. I also do, and this is maybe a little unorthodox, I stopped doing member calls because mainly I didn't like doing them. I didn't like having to be, to show up. I'm more of a passive income guy, which doesn't really fit memberships, but that's kind of what I desired.
31:40So I stopped doing member calls because I didn't like them and people didn't really attend them that regularly. So what I do now is I do, and I sell it this way, included in the membership is unlimited one-on-one mentoring. Unlimited mentoring for$39 a month, plus all the stuff that they get in there as well. So that's the stickiness of my membership is the once a month workshop and the unlimited one-on-one mentorship. How do you deliver that? Exactly. Great question. Great question. And I know you're familiar with this, I'm sure. Video ask. I don't know video ask. Okay. Video ask. It's a great tool.
32:19It's kind of like a Bonjoro on steroids or a bomb bomb on steroids. Okay. So video ask.com. I use that. And what that does is it creates an asynchronous funnel that I have in my membership where it has a video of me giving an instruction going, Hey, if you have any questions, you need help or support. If your boss won't help you, I'm here for you. I got all this experience. Let me help. Ask me anything you want. So they click a button, they can leave a video, they can leave an audio, or they can leave a text. They can choose their own adventure and how they want to communicate with me. They hit the button, it goes into the funnel, video asks, sends me a notification that says, hey, Susie left you a message in this funnel, this mentoring funnel that's for my members.
33:04I go in on my phone and I click a button and then I will watch, listen, or read what she says. and I've done this in traffic at a light. I've done it at the supermarket. I just push a button and say, hey, Susie, great question. Here's what I would do. Step one, two, three. If you have anything else, let me know. I click a button. It sends her the response. It literally takes a few seconds. It's very low friction for me because people don't overuse it and abuse it. If they did, I'd probably stop doing it. But they don't. And it's really personal and confidential. And it creates a lot of stickiness in the membership because they can get that support when their boss won't help them or they're just scared or they don't want to reveal their problems to people around them.
33:46And that's how I help them. That's really interesting because on the surface, I would say unlimited one-on-one mentoring. Unscalable. That sounds way worse than a monthly group call. Like, okay, I just, I know when I have to show up. Like I'm not, but you know, as, but what you're saying is like high perceived value. Oh, I can ask a question anytime I want, but realistically they're not pinging you at all hours of the day and night times 200 members. I might get one or two a week. I don't get many at all. I just don't get it. Cause I think people see that as, Oh, this is a pretty, pretty high value, important thing.
34:19I want to make sure I use it the right way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I believe is the case. And it's never been a problem. I have a hundred minute plan with video ask. I've never, it's 30 bucks a month. I've never run out of it. And I embedded into Kajabi into a lesson. And it's a beautiful workflow and funnel that is so easy to deliver and fulfill. All right. Well, thanks for sharing that tool. That's a new one for me. Okay, that's cool. So you mentioned Kajabi. The way I have set up these kind of limited time tripwire offers after an email opt-in is just with lead pages and it integrates with Stripe.
34:54So lots of different ways to do it. But those are at least lead pages is a paid tool as Kajabi is as well. Anything else on the tools and tech side that we might not know about or that help run this thing? I've been on Kajabi for four years, and I've tried just about everything on the market that's pretty mainstream as a competitor to Kajabi, thinking I'm going to find a cheaper, better solution. I just haven't. With a big email list and at least what I consider a big email list and all the things that Kajabi does well, maybe not perfectly. They don't do everything perfectly, but they do things well enough that it really dials in my workflow.
35:25And I spend probably 10 hours or less a week on all of my business ventures that I do. So I really like that flexibility. So tool-wise, I use Deadline Funnel. I love the urgency that's created with Deadline Funnel. And that integrates really... They have now a native integration with Kajabi Deadline Funnel, which is really the last, I'd say, 60 days. It's really cool, really simple. It gets you out of all the Zapier zaps and kind of having the bigger plan in Zapier. So Zapier is a big one for me. I use to do a few things. So deadline funnel, just real quick, my understanding is somebody opts in and then they have like their personalized clock starts like, okay, you're going to have three days to complete this offer.
36:06And if not, that's going away for you unless you opt in with a different email address or different IP address. I don't know how it, how it tracks that, but it lets you kind of constantly be in launch mode versus open cart, close cart, and like having to do a big concerted effort around that. Yeah. And that's the key to passive income for me is I don't want to get into this launch model, but deadline funnel is you're exactly right, Nick. It's when everybody opts in, as soon as they opt in, it creates a unique deadline for that person based on IP address and email address that goes from device to device, whether they're on their phone or their computer or their iPad, it works really well.
36:43And they have that unique three-day deadline to make a decision whether they're going to be in or out of the membership at that point. So I love Deadline Funnel, and I use that in different promotions that I do because I think when I've tested it, the urgency that's legitimate, real urgency, not fake urgency, that you just have a deadline that you can still buy it. My offers go away. You cannot buy it after that. Yeah, you can still get in, but the discount goes away. Yeah. You can always join at$39 or the full price, but if you want to get something in the funnel, like a$39 product that I offer as a tripwire, I have a 30-minute Deadline Funnel clock on it, that when you hit that thank you page, tripwire page, after you come in for my calculator, you have 30 minutes to get something for 30 % off, I believe.
37:29Instead of 39, you get it for 27 or 49, you get it for 27. You have 30 minutes. I just want you to decide, do you want it or not? And that's okay if you don't buy it. I'm just trying to see if your pain point is at the tipping point where this is going to put you really in a position to go get help or not. Yeah. Was the calculator something that you had custom coded that you built yourself? Was this like a drag and drop inside Kajabi? Tell me about that. Yeah. The first iteration I had made, which I updated back in April, first iteration was custom coded. I did it through Fiverr over a period of a couple of weeks.
38:04It worked okay. It wasn't the greatest. The Army updated a lot of their processes for the first time in a few years. And so the points and the calculations all changed. I tried to get one coded again, but I couldn't find a taker that could do it in the time that I wanted to do it. So I just went into Excel, Nick, and I made a macro Mac'd out Mac daddy macro Excel sheet, put V lookups. And I did all this crazy stuff. I spent like a week on it and I sent it to some people to test and it worked great. And I'm like, you know what? I'm going to do this. So what I did is I deliver it through Dropbox because you can't deliver a macro-enabled Excel sheet through Kajabi.
38:42It's one of the file types you can't upload, which I found out. So I delivered through Dropbox. I made a video of how to do it. I made a video of how to use the calculator, how to download the calculator, screenshots. It works really well, and it's been downloaded now thousands of times since I put it into place. Very cool. A lot of side hustlers suffer from what-if-itis. What if it doesn't work? What if I don't have the skills. What if I pick the wrong path? But one thing 100 % of our amazing guests have in common is they took their shot. They phased down those what ifs and they got their answers through taking action.
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39:56Go to shopify.com slash side hustle. Shopify.com slash side hustle. Now, for what it's worth, I saw, I want to say a thread about people using chat GPT now to help build these custom calculators for their site. If you're thinking, hey, I could use a calculator for my site as a lead gen, or even just as a tool to attract backlinks or to attract traffic, like, okay, here's the side hustle calculator. How much do you need to earn from your side hustle? You'll fill in these variables, like, okay, maybe we could build that in chat GPT or at least build the groundwork for it. So I'll throw that out there as potential.
40:33Yeah. I've used chat GPT a lot. I haven't used it for calculator stuff, but one thing I use chat GPT for are just quick emails. I just go, Hey, write me an email that wishes everyone, all NCOs a safe Memorial day. Right. And it wrote a beautiful email. I didn't have any calls to action or anything in that. That's unusual for me, but I'm always in buy my stuff mode because what I've realized is people need help. And sometimes you got to be there when they don't know they need it and you got to help them. But I sent this email and it was a beautiful email that ChatGPT put together. I couldn't have written that better having sat at a coffee shop for eight hours.
41:11There's just no way. So it was a beautiful thing. It's a cure for writer's block in a lot of ways. Like I rarely will just straight copy and paste something, but you're like, oh, okay, let me work with that. Let me tweak that. I'm using four too. I pay the 20 bucks a month. I'm on the chat GPT for I'm a junkie for stuff like that. Another tool you got to have, I guess. It's all good. I will share one email sales framework that I kind of like. So this is from Daniel Thrassel on the show a couple of years ago, a copywriter out of Australia. And it was story lesson offer. He would like start off the email with some sort of compelling story, often like involving his kids or his wife, like something unique that happened.
41:48Okay, what's the lesson or what's the business takeaway from that? Oh, and by the way, if you want to buy my thing to help with this problem. Here it is at the bottom. So like get people hooked in and you go there versus straight up offer at the very top. And it's just one copywriting framework that he shared. Now you're generating these half a million monthly page views, lots of organic traffic. My question is, how do you decide what do I put out there for free as blog content versus what do I keep behind the membership or inside these paid digital products? I only put a few things on them per month.
42:24I've created some core content on my two WordPress sites that I use to drive leads, some things to help people with leadership and get promoted faster and tools. And those are pretty evergreen. Those don't go bad. Those don't have a shelf life. And then what I do is I post a couple of times a month on my WordPress sites, usually the promotion list. That's why people come to my site mainly is to get promotion data. Did they get promoted? They come to my site more than they go to the army site to get the information because the army regulates them with passwords and all these things to get in and firewalls.
42:55And, and they're like, I can just get it from cutoff scores or NCO support because they do it. Where do I get it? I get it after putting my passwords and going through the firewalls. And I just post it on my sites and I don't really produce more content than that. What I do, my strategy is because I get so many leads in from my websites, from that evergreen content and from those promotion lists that I put in there once or twice a month. I give people the content through the email funnel, right? I give people, they come in, they get the value, they get the calculator, or they get a couple other lead managers, depending on how they come in.
43:30The calculator is probably 90 % of my traffic from a lead standpoint. They'll come in, they'll see a tripwire, they'll go through the funnel. And through the funnel, they will begin to get free stuff, kind of a template here, a set of example statements there, ways to help their soldiers do this, ways to get promoted faster by that. I give them resources out of my products and I give them bits and pieces with the goal and the desire to pull them back into the broader relationship, which is the membership or into one of my lower ticket products with an upsell back into my membership. So that's how I serve them is once they're in my funnel, I start giving them a lot of stuff for free over a period of time that they will see is like, wow, this is so valuable that I get this for free.
44:16hey, let me go check out his paid stuff and see how great that might be. So I just looked up army promotion points. Cutoffscores.com is the first result. Ncosupport.com is number five. And NCO on fire is number six or seven. It's like you're dominating the first page. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. It's like, well, you just got to buy up three other sites and you have totally monopolized this thing. Another thing I did is I just started testing. I've never been a Facebook ads guy either, right? I've tried it in the past. Like, ah, it doesn't work. Doesn't work. Can't work. I don't know. But I said, you know what?
44:52I'm going to test this again because I updated one of my digital products, like this counseling package. And it's 162 PDF templates. And I sell it for like$39. It's just great stuff. So the army updated their form. So they went from a 2014 form, updated it in 2023. And now I had to move all my templates over to this new form. I paid a guy$600 to do that. it blessed him. He was happy to do it. Got it back in a week. So I said, let me try this on Facebook ads because let's strike while the iron's hot. So I started doing$50 a day. I've put in about$1 ,700 over the last six weeks or so in ads. And I've gotten back about 5 ,000 on those sales.
45:36And then I have an order bump into another digital product for$20 and I get a 60 % take rate on the order bump. I'm getting a$40 cart value, but then 60 % of the time I'm getting a$60 cart value. And I've taken$1 ,700 in ad money, which I've just kind of threw it out there. I'm just trying to figure it out. And I've converted like 60 something hundred dollars. I'm like, that's pretty good ROI. Yeah, no question for a digital product with no incremental cost. And I send people straight to a checkout page. I don't send them to a sales page. I don't send them to anything. I've only narrowed it to one small audience, which is the Army Reserve and National Guard, because I figured that they have full-time jobs, they weakened people, and they probably need this help probably more than anyone.
46:23It's interesting to test things like that. I'm a little nervous to start dumping more money into it because I don't want to disrupt what's working well. It's like, I just hope nobody notices it. And it just kind of lives out there forever. and I just keep quiet about it. Yeah, the Facebook money machine. So there you have it. Facebook ads are still alive and kicking. All right. Well, speaking of Facebook, tell me about the page and the group and how those fit into the traffic and sales picture. So my Facebook page, Fernando, the guy I bought the two websites from, kind of threw that in as like a cherry on top bonus.
46:55He would just go in there and post one thing a month. Here's the scores, the promotion points to see if you got promoted. What I did was I really leaned into that Facebook page and just started posting more memes and just things to get engagement up, right? So that's what I do. I just throw memes in there. Then I just throw offers in there. I just throw lead magnets. I say, hey, come get 10 free templates to counsel your soldiers, right? Here, come check it out. They'll come in, they'll get those. And then I'll say, oh, by the way, do you want 160 of them for$39? You can get that too. I'll lead people through that funnel.
47:30And then sometimes I'll just throw, hey, join the membership for this price right now. I'll get this digital product. I'll put offers in there. That's how I use that page. I wouldn't say the page is probably chock full of the perfect people because it's a very, it's like a 12 year old page and people go onto that page and have probably gotten out of the military and have aged way beyond my ideal customer. But there's still a ton of people. There's still enough of the needles in that big haystack for me to get a lot of leads. And that's how I use that. And the group is far more engaged, far more intentional, private group, and it's just super engaged.
48:08And I do the same thing. People engage in my moderators that I've appointed, and I just let them into the membership for free, all 10 of them. Come in for free. Just thanks for doing all this. They manage it. They keep the riffraff down. They kick people out that aren't playing nice. And I go in there and I post offers and I post leads, lead magnet stuff, and they do all the engagement. And it's a beautiful thing. And it just really kind of just creates that funnel where I'm getting to that 1 ,500, 1 ,800 leads a month coming in and then selling stuff direct from the page and the group just through some lower ticket stuff as well.
48:44I found the page Army NCO support. What's the name of the group? It's facebook.com slash group slash optimized NCO. Okay. Just wanted to make sure we'll link those up for you in the show notes. You mentioned, hey, I'm down to about 10 hours a week. on this business, answering the video ask chats. Where else does the time go? Time goes to funnels. I'm a funnel geek. I get in, I'm tweaking funnels. I'm looking for my next promotion. How can I position a product better? Kind of like I said, hey, I'm gonna go test these Facebook ads out. Let me go see if I can gin something up and figure something up to go get some ROI back, get some good return on ad spend here, see if I can get two to three X.
49:24So testing, I'm a serial tester. I like to test things. And that's what I'm helping people now Now, as I coach an online business, it's like, what do you want to do? What's your goal? What's your why? Why do you want to do this? And then what are some of your objectives? Do you want to just take your family on a vacation once a year? Do you want to replace your income? What is it you want to do? Now, let's go think about what that could look like for you. Let's go dial in a funnel, build a funnel that's going to support that objective. So I'm big into funnels. I'm big into automation. I'm big into testing to see what is going to get traction.
49:57And then what doesn't? I toss aside and what does, I do more of that. And that's kind of the way I spend my 10 hours a week is testing. And then I spend my other time working with Flip Lifestyle as their head coach and affiliate leader. And I do their funnels for them as well. So with Shane Sams and Flip Lifestyle, that's where I started my membership journey with them. And they taught me so much. And I just love being part of their team to do that. Well, shout out to Shane. If you're listening, thanks for connecting me with Steve. It's been a fun conversation. So that's really kind of cool. like playing puppet master, tweaking different levers.
50:30I love it. It's just my personality. I love, I get more excited about seeing a small win as a result of doing some things and knowing that that could just live on in perpetuity because you set it up the right way. I love that. I love it. And so outside of NCO on fire and outside of your work with Flip Lifestyle, you also have onlineincome.coach. After a while, a certain number of people start asking you, well, wait a minute, you quit your job? you're doing this online thing full-time. Could you help me out with that? So onlineincome.coach, if you want to get in touch with Steven over there. It's been a relatively new venture.
51:06I've got the basic website up. I have a couple of clients right now that I'm helping and I'm doing a lot of one-on-one because I recognize I've done a lot of coaching with Flip Lifestyle and Shane. I've coached hundreds of people with their online businesses and I've gained so much knowledge of how to help people, not only because of the way I've set up my businesses and my struggles and mistakes and how I've overcome them. But seeing through the lens of that and helping people overcome their struggles is something I really geek out on and enjoy. So that's where my pivot is, Nick, is I'm really, really driven on helping people start, build and grow online businesses.
51:41I love it. Onlineincome.coach is the way that I'm introducing that to the world. I have a couple of clients. I have a quiz there that people can take and kind of learn what type of entrepreneur and business could they be a good fit for. Is it doing courses? Is it doing memberships? Is it doing coaching? And they can go through a little, it is a funnel because that's what we do, Nick. We're funnel guys. We're going to, I'm going to sit through a funnel. It's a funnel of decision. It's very, it's pleasant. You're going to go through this funnel. You're going to see what your personality type is.
52:13And then you're going to get into some idea training where I'm going to teach you in about eight minutes, about eight to nine minutes. I'm going to teach you some ways to come up with maybe your first business idea. And then that could start the ball rolling. And if I can help people further with that, then certainly I can offer coaching and different things from that if that's the direction they want to go. Absolutely. So go check that out. Onlineincome.coach. Let's wrap this thing up with your number one tip for side hustle nation. If you want to start an online business, you just have to sit back with a cup of tea or a coffee and you got to look in the mirror.
52:45You got to go, what do you know that nobody knows you know, right? What do you know that nobody knows you know? Because for me, it was promotion points in the Army. I wrote a book and I had to reflect. So look around, see what's around you, see what you've done in your life. Think about what you know and you take for granted, be it skills, be it wisdom, be it other things that you've done in your life, good and bad, right? Good and bad things that have happened to you that can help you help other people. Lean into that. And that could very well be a business idea that could help you pivot in your life as well.
53:25It's 100 % true. And it's been called the curse of knowledge, where it's hard to remember what you know that nobody knows you know. It's hard to imagine not knowing it. And it sometimes takes an outside perspective, but like, you know, asking other people, what am I good at? Or what am I a relative expert in? And you can start with looking at your past resume history and seeing, well, what have I been paid to do in the past? But even outside of that, OK, what challenges even go like through year by year? You know, what was I doing at this point? And what were the things that I learned during that time?
53:56Like, oh, I was painting houses in college. I could estimate a paint job still if I still had to. Like, OK, would that be? I don't know if that's worth pursuing or not. But the idea of constantly testing and tweaking and playing around with these different offers, like I really like that stuff as well. and trying to dial that in. Your note about using Facebook as a top of the funnel. Like I ask for people's email when they request to join the group. And after that, pretty much promote nothing. So that's like a huge area of opportunity. You got to start putting links. You got to start dropping stuff in there, Nick.
54:28Let's go, man. Let's go. Yes, it's a huge area of opportunity for me. So maybe that's coming down the road. And then I liked your point really about, okay, this is where I want to go. If I want to build an online income, I want to sell this product, or I want to sell this membership. kind of like, what are the shortcuts to get there? Starting with, oh, I'm gonna go recruit an affiliate partner. Like, okay, I got the product, but I don't have the audience. Hey, he's got the traffic, he's got the audience. All right, let's go do that. And then through acquisitions, kind of as a natural next step or next evolution that came out of that.
54:59And then really coming down to email marketing. If I gotta get people in this sequence, I'm gonna provide value, I'm gonna help them out as best I can, and then point them to relevant product services offers there. Those were kind of my notes again. I really appreciate you joining me again, onlineincome.coach. If you are new to the Side Hustle Show, that's awesome. Thank you so much for tuning in. There are hundreds of actionable, evergreen episodes in the archives. If you're not sure where to start, why not build yourself a personalized playlist? All you got to do is go to hustle.show, answer a few short, multiple choice questions, and I'll get that going for you right away.
55:38the custom curated playlist of the episodes I think are going to be most relevant to you that you can add to your device. You can learn what works. You go take action and start making more money. Again, that's at hustle.show. Big thanks to Steven for sharing his insight today. Thanks to Masterclass for sponsoring this week. As always, you can hit up sidehustlenation.com slash deals for all the latest offers from our sponsors in one place. Thank you for supporting the advertisers that support the show. That is it for me. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you're finding value in the show, make sure to text it to a friend.
56:12Until next time, let's go out there and make something happen. And I'll catch you in the next edition of the Side Hustle Show. Hustle on.
From the publisher
How can you turn what you already know into an online income stream? Or better yet, a recurring online income stream?
Long-time Side Hustle Show listener Steven Foust is a retired Army Chief Warrant Officer (CW3) and Non-Commissioned Officer (NCO) who recently left his corporate executive position to pursue his online side hustles full-time.
His primary side hustle is NCOonFire.com, where he helps army soldiers get promoted faster and earns $14k a month in the process.
Tune in to this Side Hustle Show interview to hear:
How Steven came up with the idea
the marketing and sales tactics that are working today
how to give yourself a raise every month
Full Show Notes: How I Built a 6-Figure Online Business, Starting as a Side Hustle
New to the show? Get your personalized money-making playlist here!
