596: An Online Course Business Turns 10: Lessons from $4M in Online Piano Course Sales

25:10Even if the lifetime value of that customer shrinks a little bit, like if they don't stick around for the full eight months, but what happens if you double or triple the number of people signing up for it? But I agree with the branding mismatch. That doesn't make sense in this case. But let's say that somebody's listening to this, they either have an online course or they would like to start one in 2024. Like, what do you see? Obviously, the landscape has changed a bunch over the last 10, 11 years of doing this. Like, what do you see working today or the essential building blocks, ingredients for somebody starting a course business today?

25:44It's changed quite a bit in some areas and other areas. It hasn't so much. And so the way I like to look at it is let's focus in on the key areas or components that you need to have in place for this whole thing to be successful. One thing I talk about on my podcast a lot is I want to help you set up a course business, not just a course, because a course on its own doesn't make money. A course business is what makes money. And that's where people go wrong the most is they get this idea for an online course. And so the first thing they do is they make an online course. They don't have all the other necessary ingredients to actually make money from the course.

26:19I mean, it makes sense intuitively because if you have an idea, like you teach guitar and so you want to make a guitar course, like that's the thing you would be best at. You don't necessarily have any sort of background in sales or marketing. So you focus on that area where you're like actually teaching guitar, but we need to have all the components in place and the components that I would suggest you have in place. And I mean, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter as much what order you do them in as long as you have all of the components, but you got to have the product, the course, you have to put an offer together.

26:47So that includes how much you're going to charge for it What bonuses if any you're going to include with it if you're going to have any sort of urgency You got to put together an offer You have to have some sort of sales funnel unless you're selling like a really inexpensive course like less than 50 Then you want to have some sort of sales funnel And I mentioned earlier the two goals with a sales funnel and that's why we need it Because we've got to convince somebody that they can do the thing And that you're the perfect person and your program is the perfect way for them to accomplish that thing So whether it's a funnel like mine, product launch formula, Evergreen webinar funnels are still working fine.

27:22Challenge funnels are becoming more popular, but all of them have the same goal and are essential if you're selling above$100. And ideally you're selling for more than$300 or$500. And then we also need, probably the area people struggle with the most is traffic. You gotta have an audience. You can have all those pieces in place, but if you don't have traffic, if you don't have an audience, and it doesn't matter at all, That's hard because most people don't succeed with ads. They end up wasting money. So you turn to content marketing, podcast, YouTube, short form content like TikTok or Instagram Reels, and you've got to put high quality content out there consistently is the best way to build an audience.

28:03And a lot of people don't want to do it in the long term. More with Jock in just a minute. We're talking audience building. What's working today? Short form versus long form. And of course, his number one tip for Side Hustle Nation this year, right after this. A lot of side hustlers suffer from what if-itis. What if it doesn't work? What if I don't have the skills? What if I pick the wrong path? But one thing 100 % of our amazing guests have in common is they took their shot. They phased down those what ifs and they got their answers through taking action. Our partner Shopify helps turn what ifs into why nots.

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29:11Go to shopify.com slash side hustle. Shopify.com slash side hustle. That's the challenging part of it. It's like, well, you know, product first, audience first. Well, you can go product first, but if you don't have anybody to sell it to, then you're still kind of up a creek. You got to figure out, you could try the ads thing. You could try, probably the shortcut method would be some sort of affiliate partnerships with other people who are kind of shoulder in your space to say, I'm going to come on, I'm going to deliver this thing either as a, as a podcast guest, as a joint venture webinar, like how can I shortcut the audience building by tapping into other people's audience, but you do have to figure out that piece of the equation.

29:53And that was Spencer Russell. Like, Hey, I went big on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube shorts, like on the toddlers can read side, like, Hey, this is really interesting content and into his sales funnel there. We've had other run into other people like in the personal finance space. Jeremy Schneider is a personal finance club on Instagram, huge Instagram following and low ticket course. I think it's like a hundred bucks or 79 bucks for like, I'll teach you index fund investing. This is the proven way to build long-term wealth, blah, blah, blah. And there is no sales funnel that I, at least I can see from the outside looking in.

30:25It's just like, Hey, it's available now. It's like, it's always available, but it's like, you know, maybe there's a limited time sale a couple of times a year. and it's just because of the rapport that he's built over consistent content over years on these platforms or on instagram in particular it's like yeah i trust this guy he knows what he's talking about i'll go buy the thing when i'm ready to get serious yeah i think that this traffic piece is the area that has changed the most over the years i think the the concepts for the funnel and the offer and even the course itself that part has remained pretty like with the pretty tried and true ways to do those.

30:58But the traffic piece, like five years ago, I would have said, oh, you got to be on YouTube. For course creators, you got to be on YouTube because the same type of person that's searching for solutions on YouTube, which is a video-based platform, are going to be wanting to buy a video-based solution and maybe an online course. But over the past couple of years, I've seen so many course creators succeeding with building a following on the short form platforms. You mentioned Spencer Russell as an example. He's over a million followers now on TikTok and separately on Instagram, teaching toddlers how to read.

31:30It's not a money-making opportunity and he's absolutely crushing it. I have somebody in my coaching program right now. She just started two months ago. She's a photographer. And I'm like, look, the first step is not to build the course. That's what everybody wants to do. You got to build the audience. So she creates Instagram and she niches down to helping parents. This is actually weirdly similar to Spencer because she helps the parents do something for their kid. She helps parents learn how to photograph their baby, like one year and under newborn to one year old, how to photograph your baby yourself.

32:01So you don't have to hire a photographer to do that. So she starts Instagram, she starts putting content out there. And the first few, like nobody sees them. But one day about a month ago, she was like, Jacques, I'm going viral right now. And I remember Spencer would tell me that back in the day, Jacques, I'm going viral right now. She hit one that got over a million views, showing parents how to photograph their kids. And now she's got over 27 ,000 followers on Instagram. And my favorite part is like, she hasn't made the course yet, but so many people are commenting under a video, like, where can I buy your course?

32:33Like, when's the course going to be available? I'm ready to learn from your course. So yeah, it's a key piece. That's kind of crazy. One of the different entry point sequences you mentioned was a challenge funnel. I'm curious to learn a little bit more about how you've seen those working? I think that's like a newer one in the game. I think I noticed our mutual friend, Abby Ashley is starting to use that. I would love to learn more about how that's working for her. In fact, I just had a guy on my podcast last week who that's all he talked about was these challenge funnels. And one of the guys on my team has been talking to me for a couple of years, like Jacques, we got to do a challenge funnel for Piano in 21 Days because it's perfect.

33:10You got the five-day challenge built right in. Your opt-in is already a five-day thing. So I myself don't have a lot of experience with it, but I'm seeing people on the outside start to have more and more success with a challenge funnel. But at the end of the day, it's just another mechanism to try to get your potential customer to believe those two key things. mm-hmm yeah we've seen rob and melissa from flea market flipper do something like this like their flip it for christmas challenge like hey we're gonna make an extra 250 500 bucks for christmas this month by buying low and selling high and imagine that funnels into their full course and the whole freight shipping thing and like find high margin low volume items like i don't want to be i don't want to be going to the post office every day but if i could send out a couple items a month and make some good money i think that's kind of their model that makes sense unless i I think it's less automated, less evergreen because you got to show up and lead the challenge for that core, like, but trying to get people off the sidelines.

34:05Anything else you see working for people on the audience building side of things these days? No, like I said, that's the big shift that I've seen is that can work really well. In fact, now that's like, it depends on your niche, I guess. But for the most part, that's my main recommendation would be just, hey, start on Instagram and crank out a reel. If you can do one a day, amazing. Because your first 10 are going to be so bad. And then your next 10 are going to be a little better. and then your next 10 might be a little better than that. But I was talking to Kate, the example I mentioned the other day, I was like, do you think that was necessary to do with those first 30 before you hit the viral one?

34:38And she's like, to be honest with you, I still don't understand why that one went viral. Her argument was like, I needed to make a lot because I didn't know which one was going to do really, really well. So it's easier. It's easier to make a 30 second short form video than on YouTube now, because you got to do so good with your thumbnail and your title. It's just, I still love YouTube, but it's a lot more challenging than it used to be. Are you doing anything short form or is anybody on your team playing in that space? Yeah, we are for the Online Course Guy brand. We are all in on Instagram. We do repurpose the short form videos we make to TikTok and YouTube shorts, but we're primarily focused on Instagram and it's been going really well.

35:17We get a lot of DMs, a lot of comments, a lot of likes. I see the success from the people I work with or coming on my podcast and I'm like, oh, I want to experience that. That sounds really cool. Do you have an example of one or two that have hit over there? Like what were those videos about? For myself? Yeah, for the online course guy brand. So look, the key with Instagram, and you know that Spencer was really the one that made me want to try it because he's blowing up a couple of years ago. And so when I first decided to try it, I made a couple of videos and I sent it to him before I posted them.

35:48And he said, Jacques, I watched the first five seconds of both of your videos and I didn't watch the rest. And you need to redo it because I wasn't hooked in. You have no more than five seconds to grab attention because people are going to swipe and move on to the next video So your first three to five seconds have to be super compelling Or it's just not even worth making and so I went back to the drawing board and one that did really well Uh is i've got several books behind me on on my display here One of the most impactful books for my life has been the four-hour work week Just showing me what was possible in the like online business space My hook was something like, let me show you why reading the four-hour work week actually makes me want to work way more than 80 hours a week.

36:34The meat of the video was about, it allowed me to find my true passion, which now is talking about online business and online courses, and actually want to do that stuff. Whereas when I worked an actual job, I was ready to get out of there as quickly as I could. So that was kind of my hook and it resonated with people. It did really well. I remember we had Nicole Whitworth on the show and she has a kind of like study group or tutoring group for nursing students and we kind of maybe non-traditional nursing students like people are getting into it later in their lives or later into their careers and she said the same thing for tiktok like it was all about that hook and so some of her best performing videos were debunking this study myth or you're trying to memorize this thing like throw that out the window right and so people who are kind of in that space and that's what they're getting shown in their feed anyways.

37:21They're like, wait, have I been doing it wrong the whole time? So they're hooked in, they're compelled to keep on watching and learn more from Nicole. I think ultimately a combination of short form content and longer form content is really the place to strive to be because you can get results so much faster on the short form content, but they're more fleeting. If you stop posting on say TikTok, it's not as evergreen. Like people aren't going to find that. Yeah, it dries up. Whereas I have a video on YouTube I made five years ago that still makes me tons of sales every month because people are still finding that video and getting value from that video.

37:59And so a combination can work really well, but start with one and then add the other later. That was Robert Farrington's advice. You got to have your home base. And in his case, it's got to be the website, thecollegeinvestor.com in his case. And then when you're just starting out, pick one, maybe it's YouTube, maybe it's Instagram, Maybe it's LinkedIn. Maybe it's Twitter. Just like get good at one and then start to layer on complexity and different marketing channels. And for the most part, you could probably repurpose stuff. You don't have to completely reinvent that, but make it native to each of those platforms as you're doing it.

38:31So that was something that I remember from our most recent catch up with him. But I'm totally with you on the short form versus long form. Like I'm going to be creating content. I want to create something that is evergreen, that can help people and can drive traffic and revenue and email subscribers for years, because that's the same thing. Power of having a blog post that sticks to the first page of Google for months or years at a time. That's where I want to be investing my time. And so I've struggled on the short form side of things where my sweet spot is that 2000 word blog post or that 45 minute podcast episode where it's like, oh, how to tell a compelling story in 45 seconds.

39:07Like, oh, that's still a work in progress on that front for sure. Those were the key ingredients, the product, the offer, including the bonuses and sense of urgency, the sales funnel. That could be an evergreen webinar. It could be an email sequence. It could be a challenge funnel, something to convince people of those two things. Yes, you can do this. And yes, we are the best people to help you do that thing. And then the hard part is that traffic or audience building side of things. Like how do you get people's attention in a noisy world? now you're 10 years into it almost 11 years into the piano in 21 days is it something that you see yourself doing for another 10 years like i get the question about side hustle nation because we turned 10 last year it's like do you do another 600 episodes of this stuff like do you do this until you're 50 where does it go from here i was never a piano teacher so it was never like it was the after reading the four-hour work week my senior year of college it was like the seventh different thing i tried to make work it just there was a lot of luck involved i'll be honest And it just happened to be that I had this way of learning and playing piano that allowed people to learn quickly without sheet music, without music theory that resonated with other people.

40:15And it was based on my frustrations on the piano. So people resonated with my story as well. And it just kind of worked out. The impact I was able to have on other people was amazing. It still is amazing. But my point in saying that is I was never like super passionate about piano like a lot of people are. So i'm so fortunate and blessed that it is a thing and helps people even to this day And I don't take that for granted But I struggle to get back into it because of my lack of passion for that actual thing But in creating it I found my passion for talking about online business and helping people with online business So I kind of put piano in 21 days aside maybe 18 months ago Always thinking that I would Come back to it and jump back in full force like I have so many times but I just, at this point, I don't know that I'm going to do that.

41:03And so I could hire somebody to ramp it up a little bit, maybe create more content. I can just let it coast like it's doing now or I could possibly sell it, which is an option as well. I know a lot of people that have had success selling online course businesses. So that's on the table as well. But for my future, I love just like talking about this stuff, going on podcasts like yours, doing my podcast and helping people with online course businesses. And that could change in the future. Maybe one day I'll start a cooking brand and focus on that. But for now, this is what I love to do. There you go.

41:36Get some of that Louisiana cuisine going on in your next online business. One thing that stood out was Russell Brunson talks about One Funnel Away. And the thing that you mentioned is like, hey, I was never super passionate about piano, but this whole business was born out of your frustration in traditional piano lessons and kind of unlocking that frustration. Like, hey, look, if it was a frustration for me, it's probably a frustration for other people. One frustration away is a new way to think about your online business. Cause like, that's what people are paying money to solve, like make this pain go away.

42:07And so I think that makes a lot of sense. So tell me what's going on in the online course guy world. I know you got the podcast going on over there. You teased that there's a membership angle, helping people start and grow their online course businesses. It's a coaching program that I run. So I do the podcast, the online course show, by the way, just like taking your thing and throwing show on the end. That's brilliant. I guess subconsciously, I probably got that from you, Nick. Side hustle show. So I've got the online course show. It's all about that keyword in iTunes, yeah. Yeah, so the online course show, been doing that for seven years now.

42:39That was born out of a want to connect with other course creators. I felt very isolated and lonely with what I was doing. And it's just been awesome to get to hear from other people in all kinds of niches. And then that eventually turned into a coaching program that I've been doing the past couple of years. So that's really where I spend most of my time is with the podcast, that brand. and then working with people inside of my coaching program. It is, I don't like calling it a membership because it's a little higher priced, like higher touch. I know everybody in there really, really well. We work together very, very closely.

43:11I have two separate programs. One's called Genesis. It's more for beginners to do things from the beginning. And then I have my next level coaching program for established course creators looking to scale. Very cool. We'll link those up. We'll check that out. The online courseguy.com. You can find Jacques over there. And of course, make sure to tune into the online course show deep dive stuff. If you ever want to geek out on this specific business model, hundreds of episodes to choose from really good stuff. Let's wrap this thing up with your number one tip for side hustle nation, 2024 edition.

43:44So it's just going to be to create content. We've hit on that plenty, but that is the area in all of this that people struggle with the most, whether it's procrastination and just like, or fear of being out there. People don't even get started or they do get started and they put some things out there. They're not getting traction. So they stop. The most important thing I think somebody could be doing in 2024, really, no matter what kind of business they're running is to create valuable content, start to build that trust, start going down that path that turns into a funnel where we're like, we're getting people to believe they can do a thing and that we're the way they can do it.

44:20That's where it starts is with the content creation side. whatever your aspirations are you can't go wrong with creating content yeah it's so low risk if it sucks nobody's gonna see it i remember dickie bush talking about that on his twitter building days when he was going like zero to 50 000 followers in his first year there like if i post something it's like the ultimate idea proving ground i could post something and if it doesn't get any reaction in the first few minutes basically like it's dead in the water and like the algorithm is going to bury it in that way it's really low risk to test this stuff out and a few other creators kind of have their law of 100, like create a hundred pieces of content.

44:57You're not going to know if it works. You're not going to know if you like doing it, if you're any good at it until you really get in those reps. And I feel the same way about the first hundred episodes of the side hustle show. It's like, it's just getting in the reps and getting comfortable behind the mic and trying to figure this whole podcasting thing out, a hundred blog posts, a hundred Instagram posts, whatever your channel of choice is, but putting in those reps, learning what resonates and what works to build that audience in case you come up with that compelling offer down the road. So we're going to take a trip down memory lane.

45:29Do you have any memory of what the 2018, 2017 number one tips were? I have no idea. No idea. All right. I'm going to take it back to 2017. First, the number one tip was have a compelling hook. And I think at that time, or maybe the tagline today is half the cost of piano lessons and ridiculously more effective, right? Piano in 21 days, this is the compelling hook. You're going to learn faster, better, cheaper. And I think that really works well. So think about what that compelling hook is for your offer. Maybe I'm still working on that, like earn a job-free income, make extra money outside of your day job.

46:05I think that's something that has resonated with a lot of people over the years. 2018 was to think about the customer transformation. And I still think this one is super, super important for like, how is the customer going to look, feel, think, be different after they go through your product or service versus before, right? What is that customer transformation? Because yeah, they're buying to make pain go away, but they're also buying that transformation. So all of those excellent tips. Anything else to add before we wrap up? No, I probably should have looked at those before this to make sure that I didn't overlap or repeat here.

46:39I'm glad it worked out. That's great. Absolutely. Just a couple of final notes for me that I was taking notes on here. Number one was the goal of the sales funnel is to instill these two key beliefs. I never heard this phrase this way before. Number one, convincing the person that they can do it. Yes, it is maybe challenging, but with the right tools and support in place, you can do this. It's not impossible. And secondly, I'm the one to help you do that, right? This program is the one to help you do that. I think that's really important. And I want to highlight that one frustration away idea for coming up with your potentially your next decade of business ideas, right?

47:17Like there's been an income stream,$4 million in sales, one frustration away. And then the kind of the key ingredients to think about in either an online course business or really any type of business traffic plus conversion, right? How are we going to get eyeballs to this thing? What are we going to sell, right? Traffic and conversion. What's the product? What's the offer? And how are we going to get people's attention? Well, if you're not sure what to listen to next and you want some more Jacques in your life, you can start with episodes 223. That was the 2017 first appearance. 302, that was scaling the piano business to 30 grand a month and scaling back the hours required to run it.

47:54And then 463 was the memberships versus courses debate episode, the side hustle showdown episode that we did with Shane Sams on that one. and just help you get a better sense of the evolution of this business over the last several years, in this case, 10 years or 11 years overall. But beyond that, I want to invite you to create your own custom side hustle show playlist. How it works is you go over to hustle.show, answer a few short multiple choice questions, and the machine will spit you out a personalized playlist based on your answers that I think are going to be most relevant and impactful for you based on those answers.

48:28Again, that's hustle.show. More than 6 ,000 listeners have already claimed theirs. And I hope you'll be next. Big thanks to Jacques for sharing his insight. Once again, thanks for supporting the advertisers that support the show. As always, you can hit up side hustle nation.com slash deals for all the latest offers from our sponsors in one place. That's it for me. Thanks so much for tuning in. If you're finding value in the show, the greatest compliment is to share it with a friend. So fire off a text message. Hey, this electrical engineer quit his job to teach piano on the internet. You got to check it out.

48:59Until next time, let's go out there and make something happen. And I'll catch you in the next edition of the Side Hustle Show. Hustle on.