692: $2500/mo with Online Directories

25:30You have to like go out and cut those individual deals. A hundred percent. Yeah. That's essentially it. I mentioned that I'm building a luxury port-a-potty directory right now. So that's going to be a lead generation play. Like for rental services? Exactly. Yeah. So luxury port-a-potties can rent for$2 ,000 a day. think weddings, outdoor festivals, that kind of stuff. There's another side hustle. Yeah, feel free to build it. I'm sure there's plenty of room for multiple winners. Generally speaking for lead generation, that's the whole concept. You are creating a directory that helps people find and make a decision around renting luxury restroom trailer.

26:06You might be asking, well, Frey, isn't it just as easy as just looking up restroom trailers near me and then just, you know, calling? Yeah, but there's no price transparency And this exists in so many niches where you can call 10 luxury port-a-potty restroom trailer companies. One, it'll be a little time-consuming. But two, you'll probably get quotes that vary in the several hundreds of dollars. Same thing exists with any landscaping or home renovation project. If you're redoing your kitchen, you're going to get a ton of different quotes. So your directory can be the place that provides that information.

26:41And it's easier to just go on a directory where all the information is one place. And you can kind of quickly compare one or the other. And that's kind of like a simple problem that you can solve that adds a tremendous amount of value. But yeah, in general, that's the lead gen model. You are the website that SEOs your website. You get the leads. You sell the leads to business owners. And that's how it works. Okay. So thinking about, well, how am I eventually going to monetize this? And maybe the niche kind of dictates which direction that you go. If you're doing a directory for dog parks or hiking trails, They're probably not going to pay you to send people off to the hiking trail.

27:16But that's where display ads come in or maybe hiking equipment affiliate. I'm sure there's other creative ways you could do it, but like some more passive or more kind of just traffic based models. I sell digital products on my thrifting directory as well. And that makes around$500 a month passively. So there's a bunch of ways you can monetize. This is like a guide to like make money thrifting or something like what's the digital product? I did something really sweaty, really unscalable. I called all the thrift store owners and basically posed as some authority figure in the company and said, hey, you need to tell me exactly when new product comes into the thrift store.

27:57I need to know the days the times how many rotations you have every single day and I packaged that into a guide and I did that 130 times and I just put it in an excel sheet threw it in canva made 130 variations that are store specific schedules oh okay yeah because if you're if you're serious about it you got to be there you know if it comes in tuesday at noon you got to be there totally yeah there's a ton of resellers who want that information and just one flip it's a $19 digital product is going to pay off that expense. So hobbyists, flippers, resellers, they all want to know when the best stuff comes and how early they should plan their trip.

28:37Okay, let's go back to the data collection. You mentioned, I think, Outscraper was the tool? Outscraper, a scraping tool that allows you to scrape Google Maps and among other websites, if you'd like. That's the most non-coder friendly, in my opinion. It's super easy to set up. You can specify the locations you want to scrape, Google categories. That's something that I kind of always do before I use OutScraper. Just go on Google Maps, type in your keyword, look for the Google categories that you want to scrape for, and then move forward with the scraping tool. And that will basically give you all the information that you want.

29:16You can get the name, address, phone number, the website, the working hours, anything that you want is there as far as the information that you need to know as far as the extra the data you want to know that's where you have to kind of do extra steps there yeah for that kind of stuff where it's like well does it have a vending machine does it have shade does it have you know are dogs allowed like all that like do you have to start combing through the reviews like how do you pull all that stuff especially if you're trying to do it you know for hundreds and hundreds of locations yep so exactly google reviews is definitely like the main place you look, if people are talking about it, there will be a review tag.

29:52If you've used Google Maps, we've all seen it. It's basically what people are talking about the most. I'll combine that with some Reddit social listening, just looking up your keyword on Reddit, see what people are talking about. If those questions just keep reoccurring, then okay, then dive in, look at the comments. What are people talking about? What's being upvoted? That's where you can get a lot of ideas for data enrichment as well. Okay. So this is going to, the output of this is going to be like a ginormous excel file or something i imagine like potentially thousands of rows yeah so you get a big csv file or excel file i'll clean the data sometimes i like to scrape certain parameters like the business status it'll spit out whether or not the business is temporarily closed or permanently closed i would remove those because i don't want those to be on my directory so they're like small like kind of common sense logical approaches to cleaning your data and then once you've kind of ended up with a list that you're happy with you can go and enrich the data and that's the whole process but there are ways to automate it i actually co-founded a tool that helps automate this because it was such a pain in the butt having to go through as you mentioned potentially thousands of listings yeah manually so we kind of automated that whole process this was one of the very tedious chores where we had to build some automation so one of my first side hustle projects was this shoe shopping site and so pull in the catalogs through data fees or through like amazon's api and we'd get probably over a million products and i don't want your handbags i don't want earrings and stuff i just want shoes and so it's like you know build the rules to filter out everything but shoes and then sometimes they would have very similar names and we're like okay that product is actually the same as this product even though it's called something slightly different and this data cleanup was something that could be automated on a recurring basis but was pretty time consuming up front to try and build out all those rules super tedious i mean yeah i did it manually the first time not even exaggerating hundreds of hours just doing like quite possibly the most boring task ever but this is kind of where your value add is if all this data already exists on google maps that's where we got it from it's that question What am I going to be doing that's different and or better to make somebody come here instead?

32:09I think that that is the question I asked myself a lot. And I realized I have like two takes on this. One, which is, I think I probably learned this from Pat Flynn way back in the day, but people will pay for consolidation. Yeah. Whether it's through their time as a website visitor or like actually pay in the case of my digital product. There's all the information online, but it's time consuming. Everyone has their lives that are busy and we're all doing stuff. So if you can be the person that just consolidates it, then there's a massive value out there. The second take is specialized data. And this is kind of my hedge against impending AI threats, in my opinion.

32:47But essentially, there's data that is available, but in really low quality ways. I guess a really common example is any kind of lack of price transparency with the daycares, right? You would have to call every daycare just to get the pricing. Again, very time consuming. What if you can consolidate that information? That information is probably not even out there. Like I doubt anyone has called 5 ,000 of the daycares in America just to get that information. But if you did, that would be some insane value add. You would have specialized data in the sense that you're the only person on the internet with that level of helpful data.

33:25So that's kind of like another way you can create and generate new data. that can't be found easily okay yeah and of course if there's a hundred of these uh listings in your directory that's feasible if there's 5 000 maybe a little less so without hiring your own outsource call center team to go and collect it you want to plug your cleanup tool it's called enrich.directory that's the website it's essentially somewhat agentic you can let's just say like the day care example, you can plug in like a license or schedule, you can put in a keyword that you want to look for in the reviews rather than manually sifting through it.

34:09And it will identify the most recent ones. And you can prompt it as well. You can say, hey, does this daycare have a schedule or some itinerary or some kids program? And then it will basically just give you all of those reviews that mentioned it and have a Boolean output that says, yep, they do have a program. Here's the proof. Some reviewer has mentioned it already and they mentioned it recently. So you can kind of see all that data there. Yeah, this is something we totally did. Like we built this for our own local area when we moved and our youngest was looking for preschool. Like, well, what are their hours?

34:41What if you do three days a week? How much do they charge? Because so many of them are like nine to noon or 9.30 to 12. It's like, I was hoping for a little more coverage than that. And it's tedious to go find that data. So definitely value add if somebody puts that together. and that's just you know one example of you know hundreds exactly okay so now so it's in excel or it's in some csv file like how do we make that look pretty on a website how do you start to present that data phrase response plus the marketing he does to give his directories a nudge towards visibility coming up right after this a lot of side hustlers suffer from what if it is what if it doesn't work what if i don't have the skills what if i pick the wrong path.

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37:15Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. Yeah, so after you've scraped, cleaned, and enriched your data, that is the time when I format it on a WordPress website. That's kind of historically been my pick. There are, again, multiple ways to do it. At the end of the day, it's just building a website that points people to the right place with the right information, right? So you can use everything from your simple themes or you can use like directory specific plugins. Geo directory is one I've also used. I've also built out static pages where I just literally click create page and I just start dragging widgets over and just hand make the whole directory.

37:59Yeah. If there are a small number of listings feasible. Otherwise, it's like there's probably a WordPress like importer tool where you can do something like that. Yeah. There's WPL import. That's kind of the famous one. works really well. Geo Directory has kind of a built-in importer, so you can programmatically deploy like 4 ,000 pages in the same day if you want. So it's out there. I've more recently been playing with AI coding tools like V0 and Cursor and Cloud Code, and that's fascinating as well. But I always recommend people just use what you already know. That's usually where I think you should start.

38:36And it'll probably be the faster way anyways, rather than learning some new tech stack that you're not familiar with. Yeah. So the structure is each listing is its own page, or is it like you kind of start to do that editorial content of like the best plasma donation centers in Houston type of like, you know, listicle content. So it depends. I look at two places. You can look at the Ahrefs data. If all the, actually the first place that I look is just look up the first top three ranking websites in your SERPs or look at the most successful directory. How is it structured? Do they have individual listing pages?

39:14If so, just follow suit. Pretty easy. If it's more listicle based, you should do what I do, what I did with my first directory, thrifting one, which is a pillar page directory. It's literally 50 pages for all the different states in America. And when you land on that page, it's a massively long page. It's ridiculous. But that seemed to work out the best. And I kind of determined that by just looking at what was already working. I didn't need individual listing pages. People didn't care about that. The main thing people were typing in was the name of the thrift store, San Antonio or Austin or Los Angeles, not the specific name of the store.

39:52If it's like the daycare example, going back to that, you're probably likely to have people want to research the name of the exact daycare spot, in which case it would make sense to create its own listing page. And you would have a more traditional directory rather than a pillar page directory. So it depends on what's working out there. You can also look at the keyword research to see what the most popular queries are. And that should really inform what your directory will look like. Yeah, thinking about that site structure, I mean, similar like Side Hustle Nation could be an example, like best side hustles for real estate agents, for doctors.

40:27We have that type of content. That's kind of the listicle. That's like the pillar page type of stuff at a category level. And then each of those items on that list probably has its own deep dive where it's an interview about how to build directories or how to invest in real estate or how to start a freelance business, like anything like that. And so that kind of structure is going to be dictated by the niche that you select. 100%. That is correct. Okay. So let's say it feels a little bit like fast forwarding through the build out phase here, But once it's built, and maybe this is a longer process depending on the niche you select, you mentioned posting to Reddit.

41:08Hey, guys, I made a tool. I made a site to help make finding fill-in-the-blank easier. Check it out. That's one potential marketing angle or tactic. What else? So, like, just, you know, it's not, you know, build it and they'll come. It's build it and, like, try and spread the word at least a little bit to get Google to notice you. 100%. I would say my next step is building backlinks and kind of starting to build those trust signals. But that Reddit step is so important because people on Reddit are not afraid to tell you to your face if your project sucks. And, you know, you spend all this time researching, scraping the data.

41:46You probably spend a little bit of money, too, if you're using premium themes on WordPress. You kind of want to take a moment and take in any real-time feedback. If it sucks, then why does it suck? If people don't find it valuable and they're like telling you it's just another version of Google Maps, but uglier, then you should probably listen to them. Every single Reddit post I've made, luckily, I've made four because I have four directories that I've really put in like a full A through Z effort on. Luckily, they've been really well received, multiple hundreds of upvotes, comments. And the second reason you want to do that is because I've gotten my best monetization ideas from these Reddit forums.

42:24People are like, hey, I think it'd be really cool if you added this data. And that's how I got the idea for that first directory for the digital products. People were asking for that data. And I was like, that's really hard to get. That's going to take me hours. But I guess there's like dozens of people asking for it. So if I do it, I could charge for it. Yeah, do the work up front and sell it over and over again. Exactly. So that Reddit post offers so much value in multiple different areas. once you have that kind of peace of mind too you're so much more willing to move on to the next step which is backlinks not a fun part probably like a lot of people's main struggle with seo but yeah it's how do you build backlinks there's so many different ways especially with directories we've probably all seen them before but badges is a great way to build backlinks by that i mean i had a directory for comic shops which i do i recently launched that and the full build out videos out there i could go and approach comic store owners and say hey like i created this badge for the top 10 best comics in san antonio do you want to put on your website they embed it onto the website it clicks and then redirects to my website boom i just got a badge backlink nice that's actually something that i did three weeks ago yeah we did this for the va site too it was a little like had a kind of a the logo and like had a little like tested stamp on it for all the ones that we like tested and personally reviewed and people would put that at the bottom like kind of in their footer virtual assistant assistant tested yeah it was a little bit of a of a backlink boost yeah totally that one's like a good one i mean the best backlinks are ones where i just basically take them from my competitors sounds bad but basically i use hrefs and i look at my competitors backlinks again that bounty that i found and i'll look for a kind of a mom and pop publisher one where i reach if i reach out to them they'll actually respond and i'll be like, do you want to swap your link for mine for 50 bucks?

44:21Or I'll use some form of leverage. Hey, I'm getting 5 ,000 monthly visitors. We're also the most accurate up-to-date directory around comic books. I noticed that you link to this website. Do you want to swap it out for mine? It's going to be way better, like of an experience. We actually keep up to date with this stuff. Ultimately, the idea with backlinks is you're just convincing some stranger in some part of the world to put your link on their website, right? So there's a million ways to do that. You don't have to just pay 50 bucks because that can get costly, but that's all it is at the end of the day.

44:51And the more niche relevant it is, the better, especially in these days. That's kind of how I do it. Got it. So yeah, if you have a, if somebody's site talks about this particular thrifting store, you can reach out to them and say, hey, would you mind adding a link? Or if they're already linking to your older, worse competitor, you can say, hey, I built a better resource check it out if you genuinely think it's going to be a value add for your readers hey we'd love to love for you to swap out the link i said it's going to be a better experience and i get those pitches all the time and sometimes i ignore them and sometimes i act on them so it's like kind of a volume game 100 you don't need many too i i recall the first directory in the thrifting space i think one backlink alone was enough to push me to rank one page one where my wow target keyword that gets 60, 70 ,000 monthly visitors.

45:39That's because it was hyper relevant. There was real traffic coming to the page. The article itself was super dialed into my specific thrifting niche. And I paid him 50 bucks. I just reached out and I'm like, hey, like, I'm just going to be frank. Like, I'm just trying to get a link swap. And he was like, cool, just PayPal me 50 bucks. And that was it. Yeah, and that one link has been worth how many thousands of dollars? Yeah, it's been worth three years of two or$3 ,000 a month. That's really interesting. So sometimes it doesn't take a lot. Like don't sweat it like I'm going to need hundreds of these things.

46:12It may just take a few if you've selected a low enough competition area. Yep. So you mentioned the digital product. Is it primarily display ads for you and for your sites? Yeah. So Mediavine Grow handles the display ads. 75 % of the revenue for that first directory is display ads. So hovering around like$1 ,500 to$2 ,000 is pretty average. And then the digital products are 25 % of the revenue. And it's funny saying revenue because there's like virtually no expenses. I think I pay$7 for like a Google email and like$29 for a ConvertKit subscription. So it's like 98 % margin or something like crazy.

46:51yeah if you are used to running a an agency or any kind of other physical product type of business you're going to be blown away by the margins in a fully digital business like this like okay i got to pay for hosting a couple software tools and it's all you know it's all gravy after after i cover those now really really cool so display ads digital products we mentioned kind of lead gen as maybe slightly more advanced you got to go strike up relationships and cut those deals One way that the VA site was monetized, we sold like a featured listing like you would see on Yelp or TripAdvisor or some of these other sites.

47:23Any other creative ways that you've seen people monetize? The most successful, which is definitely the hardest to pull off, is using directories as a top of the funnel for SaaS. That's where you end up with your seven, eight, nine figure directories, which are out there. They're not that rare either, which is cool. Any examples from top of mind? Yeah, so there's one called Car Parts, car-parts.com. That's one that comes to mind. There's quite a few. There's, I believe, retreat.guru is one of the biggest directories for people who want ayahuasca retreats around the world. Oh, okay. And they sell a SaaS where if you're a retreat owner, if your business is putting on these retreats on, they sell you the SaaS to manage that retreat business.

48:09So yeah, car parts is like the biggest. It's also incredibly ugly, which is hilarious. It makes so many millions here. But they have so many products for all B2B SaaS for people who are selling used car parts and other niches within used car related businesses. Both of those do multiple millions. I think Retreat.guru does like three or four million revenue a year. Yeah. Once you've got the eyeballs, your monetization options really open up and you can figure it out. You mentioned, oh, I got my kit subscription. You're doing email marketing for this stuff too? Yeah, I do sometimes play around with newsletters on my directories.

48:49I think that's actually a really incredible combo. For the plasma donation one, I created a lead magnet where I was like, oh, if you want the highest paying plasma donation centers, we email that once a month, every month. Just sign up for this thing. And I was getting something like 500 organic lead form submissions, which is crazier to think about because the actual ticket in isn't just a normal newsletter opt-in where you put in your email. I make them go through like a minute to two minute long survey where they tell me as much as they know about their local plasma centers. So the way that one worked was I just think it's hilarious because I didn't have any newsletter content.

49:30I simply took the information people submitted to join the newsletter because I would ask them, hey, how much does your local plasma donation pay? And I'd put that in the newsletter. Oh, wow. I'm crowdsourcing the data for you. Yeah. I don't have to call all these places up. Exactly. So I crowdsourced the data, didn't even have any newsletter content until people started finding that. And to this day, I don't really work on that website too much. It's kind of just passively earning with Mediavine Grow. But that is kind of one example of a newsletter execution. in and the first thrifting store had a lot of signups or still gets a lot of signups but i don't really know what to do with them to be honest yeah sell them the paid thing and then afterwards i don't know there's other thrifting content i'm sure they'd be interested in what's like a day in the life here you know in terms of upkeep and maintenance like on the daycares if you have 5 000 daycares and you want to know the pricing like you're gonna have to it's like painting the golden gate bridge like once you get done you're gonna have to start back over at the beginning of list because their pricing probably changed.

50:26It depends on the niche for sure. With the thrifting one, I don't think I've logged into the backend of WordPress for that website in like five or six months. I just check every day and I'll be like, okay, cool. There's nothing wrong with the traffic. Takes about five seconds. Yeah, it's still cranking. With something like a lead gen one, of course, you want to be a little bit more on top of that, especially if you're starting to sell leads and kind of maintain that trust. I think an easy way is just every six months, every quarter, the lazy approach, which I'm a fan of, just re-screep the data.

50:55Sort by business status. If they're permanently closed, you can cross-reference it that way and just remove those listings that have closed. For store hours that change, which kind of, yeah, that's like a thing, I don't really change it that much. I just add a disclaimer saying, hey, these were the store hours when I first added these to the website. Make sure to check it yourself if you plan to visit. Other than that, there's not that much maintenance, I would say. Yeah, looking for stuff that doesn't change all the time i found a lot of search volume around like specific classes dance class near me or cpr training where it's like once it's gone and expired like then it's out of date there's a lot of upkeep same thing with the shoe business the inventory turned over seasonally for sure but every day stuff would go out of stock and it would be a pain to stay on top of so maybe that's a consideration too you're like thinking of well how much upkeep is this gonna is this gonna be A hundred percent.

51:47There is someone in my community that built a trivia night directory. First directory. It was a hit. I think something like eight or nine thousand monthly visitors. Yeah. But he was telling me it was a pain. He was like, I'd never want to work on this website. Trivia nights are so random. They could change locations or times on a whim. Yeah. We used to do it on Tuesdays, but now we do it on Wednesdays and like, nobody's going to tell you. Exactly. So, and then once someone has a bad experience, guess what? You lost their trust. They're probably not going to come back to your directory. So it's just one of those things where data upkeep is definitely something you want to consider going into this.

52:22Yeah, that's the drawback with the happy hour idea, too. It's like the menu price is obviously going to change. The menu items are obviously going to change. It's like it would be a cool service, but hard to execute. Anything you would do differently starting over? Not to sound at all self-centered in a way, but I think I had the right expectations going in. if i had to give someone one main thing that led to me owning successful directory websites is that my first directory was a playground to learn seo there was no expectation to earn i didn't go into it thinking oh great this is going to be like making me thousands of dollars a month passively that didn't even cross my mind i think maybe one once i was like oh if this makes like 300 a month that'd be insane but i'm really just building this to see if the seo knowledge out there which is scattered everywhere is is actually going to work and so i was just using as a sandbox and that's kind of my main advice which is and it's hard because we all want to make sure that the time we spend into a project is rewarded and hopefully by money but that's i think the fastest route to success is just learn the skills because you're learning like five or ten different skills when you're building directories it's not like oh i'm just gonna whip this up tomorrow i'm cash flowing it's like no you're learning web design and seo and keyword research and there's people who have entire jobs with just keyword research so it's it's a long process yeah there's there's a lot of moving parts here but set up correctly it could be hey just check those daily earnings and and keep it rolling i love that line about like this is my playground to learn my playground to learn SEO.

54:02I think that's really cool. Well, what's next? What's got you excited for the rest of this year? I think AI coding is fascinating. I'm a total non-coder, non-technical person, and I've just kind of started diving in. I think like playing with WordPress for probably almost 10 years now, there's certain functionalities with directories that I could never do with WordPress. So that's really exciting. A lot of people are afraid of LLMSCO, understandably, but that's exciting to me as well. just like learning how that evolves and how that works. I think a lot of people are going to stop creating these websites because of this fear.

54:37I've already started seeing it in my own communities, but people with high agency are just going to keep creating these. And I don't think local SEO is really going to go anywhere in the next few years is kind of my take. And yeah, I have YouTube stuff going on. I have other fun projects that I have. I'm juggling right now. Yeah, you're helping people learn this stuff at Ray Chu on YouTube. Check him out over there. shipyourdirectory.com is kind of a membership community for other people kind of on the same path and looking for some support and guidance and community along the way. We'll link those up in the show notes as well.

55:11Frey, this has been awesome. Like I said, I was excited coming in. I'm excited coming out. I don't know what niche I'm going to tackle, but it's definitely on my short list of future side hustles. Let's wrap this thing up with your number one tip for side Vestal Nation. Build with an open mind and build to master the skills. No one is going to reasonably expect themselves to build directories for forever. I assume if you're listening to this, you're going to build other things. You're probably going to maybe open up an e-commerce store or maybe some kind of boring brick and mortar business or whatever works for you.

55:44So just learning SEO and learning how to distribute things on the internet is the play. Directories is just one very narrow niche area where you can apply your learnings. And if your site has been hit by updates over the last couple of years, maybe this is something that you could use to fight back. This is something you could layer on to some existing content or add a little subsection of your site and build out some new authority. So lots of different routes to go, lots of different niche ideas thrown out in this episode. Again, 100 plus directory niche ideas are yours free. I'll email that to you.

56:20just hit up side hustle nation.com slash Frey f r e y you'll be able to download that or hit up the show notes link in the episode description i'll get you right over there big thanks to Frey for sharing his insight thanks to our sponsors for helping make this content free for everyone side hustle nation.com slash deals is where to go to claim all the latest offers from those sponsors in one place thank you for supporting the advertisers that support the show that is it for me thank you so much for tuning in if you're finding value in the show the greatest compliment is to share with a friend.

56:51So fire off that text message. Hey, I think you get a kick out of this one just like I did. Until next time, let's go out there and make something happen. And I'll catch you in the next edition of the Science Hustle Show. Hustle on.