Personal Insults Fly in Heated Michigan Senate Debate

0:00Every day, animals across the country face abuse and neglect. And every day, the ASPCA shows up to rescue animals in crisis. But they can't do it alone. Visit ASPCA.org slash need. Become a donor today to provide the care and shelter these animals urgently need. And for a limited time, the ASPCA will send you a free gift as a special thank you. Visit ASPCA.org slash need. Tempers are flaring tonight. It's several critical Senate debates that are playing out in Michigan, Maine, and Georgia. And Senator Bernie Sanders is going to join me live. I'm Caitlin Collins, and this is The Source.

0:58It's a very busy night as we come on the air. 26 days to go until the midterm elections. And Senate candidates have just finished three debates and three of the closest battleground states in the fight for control of the Senate. Michigan, Maine, and Georgia. All three of those races are in our top list of Senate seats that are most likely to flip. Michigan, of course, is one of the few opportunities for Republicans to try to flip a seat. Right now, polls show that race is very close. And tonight was actually the first time that voters got to see Republican Mike Rogers and Democrat Abdul El-Sayed face off in a debate.

1:35And it didn't take very long when those two were facing off for it to get personal. just listen to this exchange where the two of them were being questioned about those flock surveillance cameras. Those programs were really, really important in catching people who were suspected of terrorists and being terrorist, committing a terrorist act. That's really, really important. And why would that bother you? Well, if you have someone in your family that might be on the side of the watch list. Are you going to go ahead and say that I'm, go ahead and say it. No, I'm going to say what? Did you not have family?

2:07I've been tiptoeing around the whole time. Just say it. No, I haven't been tiptoeing it. Do you know why? Do you know why? Because of your policies. Because of your policies. That's so right. That literally use surveillance. Use surveillance. So I'm just saying, if you want to come out and say something, go ahead and say it. No, no, well, let's do this. All right, let's open up this can of worms. I'll give you another. I'll tell you what my mother did. She was a small... You go after my mom? I'm not going after your mom. What your mom was working at, I was going after that organization that was indicted for funneling money to Al-Qaeda.

2:37Look, that's your mom. My mom worked at a law, smoker, uh, chamber of commerce. I'll put my mom up any day for that. Pretty much the whole night looked like that between the two of them. Meanwhile, in Maine, this was the second of what is it going to be four debates over 10 days for the Republican in that race, Susan Collins and the Democrat, Troy Jackson. Now Collins has survived tough reelection battles in the past. In fact, in her last re-election campaign back in 2020, she won her Senate race by eight points, even as President Trump lost her state by nine points on the same night. You know, Senator Collins talks about a crook.

3:16I mean, Donald Trump is a convicted felon, 34 felons. She has no problem doing his bidding. I have served Maine with integrity the entire time, and I deeply resent these false allegations. We certainly never had any pay for play scandals like Senator Collins seems to be doing every day now. If you look at the number of times that Troy has flip flopped his position on issues, and it usually has to do with issues that his son has been hired to lobby him on. That was in Maine. Meanwhile, in Georgia, we saw Senator John Ossoff and the Republican congressman, the candidate in that race, Mike Collins, also debating.

4:03Democrats have felt pretty good about Senator Ossoff's chances of holding on to that seat, especially after Republicans started moving some of their advertising dollars away from that race in Georgia. Tonight, both candidates came out swinging. But my opponent is a radical, and he has left our state less safe, more expensive and worse off. He's an extremist who's voted for men to go in girls' sports. He's opposed the forgotten men and women who just want to keep more of their tips, their overtime and their social security. That's the problem, Mike. It's not just that you've hired half the Third Reich to staff your congressional office and you have promoted neo-Nazi content online.

4:46It's that you're robbing your constituents to subsidize your donors. And on that note, my first guest tonight is the independent senator of Vermont, Bernie Sanders. Hopefully, Senator, our back and forth is more cordial than a lot of the exchanges that we watched play out tonight. It got very heated in these debates. I mean, no surprise, given how critical these races are, but especially so in Michigan. What was your takeaway from watching the candidate that you've endorsed there? Well, I think Abdul did great. And I think he did great because it's impossible for Republican Mike Rogers to defend the most dangerous, reckless and extreme president in the history of the United States.

5:32And Caitlin, what this election is about, whether it's Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Florida, wherever, It's whether or not the American people want to continue to have a Senate and a House that rubber stamps the horrific policies of Donald Trump. or whether or not we want to hold Trump accountable, whether instead of giving tax breaks to billionaires and throwing millions of people off the health care they have, that we develop policies which help the 60 % of our people who are living paycheck to paycheck. That's really what the overall issue is. And I think it's unfortunate that so many of these debates become personal because the issue is, do we have a government that works for Elon Musk, who, by the way, is spending$200 million to try to make sure Republicans maintain control over the Congress, or do we have a government that starts representing working families?

6:33Why do you think these races are so personal? I don't know why. I don't know. I guess candidates think they do well by beating up on their opponent. But I kind of think the most important thing, and I think Abdul did it. Do you think in Michigan or in America the health care system is working? Nobody thinks it's working. We pay twice as much as the people of other countries. We are the only major country on earth that does not guarantee health care to all people as a human right. So Abdul is absolutely right that we should have Medicare for all. Do you think that it is appropriate that you have billionaires getting richer and richer, paying an effective tax rate lower than a plumber or a nurse?

7:20Well, most people don't. And Abdul is right. We need a wealth tax on billionaires. Abdul is right that we need to support trade unions, that we need to raise the minimum wage to a living wage, that we have to regulate AI, the most dangerous and problematic technology in the history of humanity. So I think getting outside of the personal attacks, just focusing on the fact that the very richest people are getting richer, working people are hurting, and you have an extraordinarily dangerous, irresponsible person in the White House who must be held to task. That is why people should be voting Democratic in this election.

8:04Senator, on Abdul El-Sayed specifically, there's pretty much two takeaways that you see in polls in terms of what you're looking at of what he's facing challenge-wise. There are voters who think he's the more extreme candidate in the race, that he's too liberal, his positions. You're talking about Medicare for All. He was talking about that tonight. And then he's also struggled to get support from black voters in Michigan. Do you think he's done enough on those two fronts, or what does he need to do differently, in your view, in these next few critical weeks? Well, Caitlin, I think the argument that he's too quote unquote liberal is just factually incorrect.

8:43If you look at a recent Wall Street Journal poll, 63 percent of the American people believe that we've got to move toward Medicare for all. So what's radical about supporting what 63 percent of the American people want? Overwhelming majority of the American people think that the rich and billionaires should start paying their fair share of taxes. So I don't think that what Abdul is talking about is radical at all. It's where I think ordinary Americans are. They know that the system is rigged. The economic system is rigged. And by the way, Abdul has been talking about the corrupt campaign finance system, which allows Musk and other billionaires to spend ungodly amounts of money to try to have Republicans retain control of the Senate.

9:28And so I don't think his views are radical. I think they are where the working families of this country are. I think one of the issues in Michigan, which really does disgust me, I mean, people can disagree on the issues. Mike Rogers doesn't like Medicare for all. Fine. But even just today, I mean, Trump sent out this disgusting racist post, you know, suggesting that Abdul, because he's a Muslim, is a terrorist or linked to jihad. And Abdul is running up against a lot of that. So I would hope that in Michigan, people will look at the issues and a candidate who is a medical doctor, who believes that health care is a human right, who is standing with working families and not allow us to succumb to this ugly racism coming from the Trump administration.

10:21You know, in terms of these races, a lot of them are going to be toss ups and they're going to be really close. I mean, even President Obama was saying that at a fundraiser, apparently privately, according to The Post. He said all of these races that are showing we've got a two or three point lead or it's a toss up. He said we could end up losing all of them by two points. Is that a concern that you share, Senator? Absolutely. Absolutely. These are all within the margin of error. Democrats could win them all. Republicans can win them all. Democrats could win some, lose some, etc. And that is why in the next three weeks we have got to build the strongest grassroots movement that we possibly can.

11:00We need to be knocking on a lot of doors and explaining to people the simple reality that if you do not, if you think that Trump's policies are dangerous and are destructive to working families, you cannot allow Republicans to continue to control the Senate. Because when they control the Senate, there will be no accountability for Trump. They will control every chair. They'll control appropriations. They'll control health care. There will be no effort, no ability for us to push forward an agenda to represent working families. So the most important vote that any senator casts is the very first one.

11:41Which party will control the agenda, will control what bills get to the floor? That is the important vote. And I think at this moment in history, we have got to hold Trump accountable. We need policies to represent the working people, not the oligarchs. And that's why it's terribly important that Democrats retain control of the House, gain control of the House and Senate. Well, Senator, you know, you have identified as a Democratic socialist for over 60 years. Today, there was a press conference I was at this morning where the vice president, J.D. Vance, he was asked to define socialism. And this was his answer.

12:16How do you define socialism personally and why do you think socialist candidates are popping up everywhere across the country? Oh, man. You know, I guess it's honestly, it's a hard term to define these days because very often socialism, you know, classically you would think socialism is about prioritizing workers. And yet in reality, I guarantee that most of the self-described socialists running across the United States of America are going to howl about this announcement today, which is prioritizing American workers over foreign workers. So I don't know what the term means anymore. I think in reality what it actually means in the American context is that you want to replace American workers with foreign workers and you want boys to play and girls sports.

13:02What do you make of that definition? Well, I couldn't quite get all of it. The sound wasn't great. But look, I don't think we should allow Mr. Trump or Mr. Vance to define democratic socialism. Democratic socialism is not complicated. What it is is saying that we need a government that represents ordinary people, working families, the middle class, lower income people, and not the oligarchs. Today you have a society in which a handful of billionaires have unbelievable wealth, control the economy, control the media to a large degree, and now are spending over a billion dollars to control our political process.

13:48What democratic socialism is about is saying that health care is a human right, not a privilege. Guarantee health care to all. Every other major country on earth does that. What democratic socialism is about is that if you work 40 hours a week, you shouldn't be living in poverty. We've got to raise the minimum wage to a living wage, at least$20 an hour. What democratic socialism is about is saying that we believe in democracy. One person, one vote, not maintaining a corrupt campaign finance system, which allows billionaires, as we're seeing right now, by elections. What democratic socialism means is we've got to protect the planet for our kids and future generations and not let the fossil fuel industry destroy, you know, life for future generations.

14:39Well, there was another part of the answer where he said that one of the most interesting things he was talking about in 2016, and he cited you and said you were asked about open borders and that you gave an answer. This is the vice president's quote. I'm reading it directly. That sounded similar to Stephen Miller's, where he said, of course, we're not going to have open borders because that's going to displace American workers. The vice president continued, it is ironic that so many of the self-described socialists running across this country love the idea of replacing American workers with foreign workers.

15:08which suggests to me it's not really about the working class. Would you say that you and Stephen Miller are aligned? No. Look, nobody I know who is running for office believes in open borders. Really? You want to have open borders? You want zillions of people from all over the world coming into the United States? Nobody I know who's running for office comes anywhere close to believing that. What I said then is what I believe, is that if you have open borders, it will put pressure on workers and lower wages in this country. The contrary to that, by the way, is that we have millions of undocumented workers today who are doing enormously important work.

15:49And instead of breaking down doors with ICE, throwing people into detention centers, we should be appreciating the hard work that these people are doing to maintain our economy and move toward comprehensive immigration reform and a path toward citizenship. Bottom line there, nobody I know who's running for office believes in, quote unquote, open borders. That's just mythology coming from right wing Republicans. So you don't think you sound like Stephen Miller? No, please. No. No. You criticized Microsoft back in July because they're cutting jobs. And that was part of what the announcement was today in terms of where the administration was going.

16:32They're barring them from bringing workers into the country using an H-1B program to make it permanent. Is that a step you support that the Trump administration is taking, Senator? Look, I think the H-1B program has been greatly abused and other immigration programs as well. There are amusement parks. There are ski centers, ski resorts here in Vermont in the past where you have people from all over the world are teaching kids how to ski. You know what? People in Vermont can teach young people how to ski. So we need a sensible immigration policy, not one which brings in people from around the world to replace American workers.

17:16I have to ask you about news that came out of the Pentagon today because the defense secretary said the execution of the man who killed 13 people in a mass shooting at Fort Hood in 2009 is going to be public. The Pentagon says it will be live streamed. Senator, what's your reaction to that news? I think it's awful. A, I don't happen to believe in capital punishment in general. But to televise it, what is that, bloodlust? We're supposed to get excited and pleased that some guy is being executed? I think that is not what this country is supposed to be about. And I think most people don't think that that is really what we should be about.

18:02Senator Bernie Sanders, thank you for joining us to talk about the Michigan Senate race, all these other critical races, and much more news tonight. Appreciate your time. Thank you. We're also following breaking news that's happening in New York City right now after a man was just shot during an encounter with ICE agents. We're waiting to hear live from New York City Mayor Zaron Mamdani this hour, and we have a reporter live on the scene right after this.

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20:20As there are tense protests underway in New York City right now after a man was shot by an ICE agent. A law enforcement source tells CNN that ICE agents had encountered a man they were targeting before firing shots into his car with a five-year-old child sitting in the back seat. Witness video from the scene appears to show a badged agent in a construction vest waving a weapon near a growing crowd in the immediate aftermath of the shooting. We're told that the child was not hurt and that the man was taken to a local hospital with non-life-threatening injuries. We were hearing from the New York City Mayor Zoran Mamdani tonight who posted in part this, saying, quote, This is an unconscionable and incredibly serious situation.

21:02I have called the president. When we speak, I will demand that he ends all ICE enforcement actions in our city. I will not stand by while our ICE agents terrorize our communities. My colleague CNN's Shimon Perkupas is on the ground in New York City tonight. Shimon, what can you tell us about what we're learning about what happened here and what's happening right now? So that's the car, Caitlin, here behind me here. Steve, why don't you show Caitlin here the car? Let's zoom in. I actually want to show you something, Caitlin. They just moved the car so we could kind of see it. You could actually see a bullet hole on the driver's side there in the windshield.

21:41There is a bullet hole that we believe, obviously, at this moment, from everything we know and we've been told, came from an ICE officer who we're told there was some kind of an encounter. And, you know, this has been happening so many times now across the country during some. They were targeting this individual for a car stop when, for whatever reason, the ICE officers opened fire. And now we see where one of those bullets landed there through that windshield. The man that was inside that car was not alone. He was in there with a five-year-old child. And witnesses we spoke to and law enforcement officials we've talked to said that child was taken out of the car by police.

22:28We also spoke to a witness who saw the aftermath, the moments after, talking about what he saw and how the man who was shot was taken by police and put inside a police car. Take a listen. Tell me what you saw. What happened? Tell me what happened. So what happened was when I was running, I just see a bunch of people standing outside front. I was confused what was going on because I seen cops speeding. And then that's when I see one of the officers with a big gun in his hand raising it up. And then they had a young man to the ground cuff and they would drag him, bring him into the police car. That's what I seen.

23:03Did you see where he came from? He was standing. He was standing like he ain't care. Like he was basically showing everybody the gun. And he was wearing a vest or something? He had a construction outfit on. He didn't even look like a cop or an agent, whatever he is.

23:21And Caitlin, that certainly created such tense moments here on the scene. Things have quieted down here. Many of the community members have been now marching towards the hospital where this man is and that five-year-old child. We are, from everything we can tell, the mayor's office, Mayor Zoran Mamdani, his staff is out here. And we think we will be hearing from him at some point for an update. You know, as you said, he posted on X about this, saying that he was going to call the president and calling what happened here unacceptable. So we're waiting to hear more from city officials. The Department of Homeland Security did issue a statement saying that they were targeting this individual who has a criminal history.

24:03But we don't yet know why they opened fire on this individual. Well, and Shemona, what I was thinking of whenever we were hearing this breaking news today is our colleague Priscilla Alvarez just posted today, It reported today that ICE leadership had told agents nationwide to increase arrests by 1 ,000 more people daily, returning to that previous goal of 3 ,000 daily arrests. And they were also instructed to try to reach 19 ,000 arrests per week. Do we know if there was an operation happening in this area? Is it even clear to the people who live there yet? No, it's not really clear to the people who live here.

24:43But the Department of Homeland Security says that they were targeting this individual. So having covered these stories before, sadly, what happens is usually they're looking for an individual. They get out here. It's always one of the things that they have been doing so differently under this administration is that they've been doing these enforcement actions at 4 o 'clock in the afternoon. You know, sometimes normally what they would do is they would do them early in the morning, going to an individual's home, trying to apprehend the individual, surprising the individual. They've been doing so many of these kind of aggressive moves involving trying to stop vehicles.

25:21Time and time again, we see this, where ICE officers are trying to stop vehicles, something happens, and then they fire at the individual. Sometimes it's just bad tactics. Now, we don't know if that's the case here. We'll see. We'll see what Department of Homeland Security actually tells us happened here. But, you know, there is so much angst in this community, as in many communities across the country, that many of the people, when I got here, I couldn't believe how many people were here, Caitlin. Many of the people aren't even from this community. They heard what happened here. Many of them are out here protesting against ICE.

25:58Some of them are immigration. They try to help this community, and folks are dealing with immigration issues. They heard about this and so many of them just started pouring into this area to try and find out what happened. And now they're on their way. Many of them have went to the hospital and they said they're not going to stop fighting. They want to get answers and accountability over what happened here. Yeah. And we'll see what the mayor says if he speaks tonight. Shimon Perkopez, keep us updated what you're seeing on the ground. I do want to note for our viewers, the Department of Homeland Security said this was a targeted enforcement operation that was happening in the Bronx to arrest a person they described as a criminal illegal alien from the Dominican Republic who had a prior criminal conviction for grand larceny and multiple arrests for assault, robbery, possession of drugs and weapons possession.

26:44We will see, obviously, what further statements we get from them. We'll be following this story throughout the hour tonight. Up next, of course, we're still following these critical races that are playing out with just a few weeks to go before the midterm elections. In Georgia, the Democrat there, John Ossoff, and Republican Mike Collins faced off in a very heated debate. More of what was said right after this.

27:14We're following breaking news out of Georgia tonight, where the Democratic senator there, John Ossoff, was facing off against his Republican challenger, Representative Mike Collins, in the first of two scheduled debates in a race that could determine the balance of power here in Washington. Ossoff is the only Senate Democrat who is running for re-election in a state that the president won two years ago. And tonight, he went after the president's war in Iran and also called on his opponent to try to defend it. This war has been a disaster. Eighteen Americans have been killed. Hundreds have been wounded.

27:50The president declared victory on day four of this conflict. You want to support the troops? Why don't you explain to Georgians right now, Congressman, how this war has been a success? This is your chance. The president had every right to go in there and make sure that Iran does not get a nuclear weapon. John Ossoff knows this. The IAEA, they had already sounded the bells, the alarms, that Iran was close to getting a nuclear weapon. And the thing is, Iran doesn't only want to decimate and kill Israel. They want us as well. My political sources are here tonight, including Karen Finney, a former senior advisor to Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign, and Scott Jennings, former senior advisor to Senator Mitch McConnell.

28:35Scott, do you think that Mike Collins' arguments were convincing to people in Georgia or paying more for gas seven months into this war? Well, I didn't see everything that was said about it, but I think there are certainly arguments like that one that can be made in favor of the decision to do it. The decision to take away their ability to commit terrorism and possibly with nuclear weapons is a good one. I would go further. Their Navy is sunk. Their Air Force is destroyed. Their military industrial complex is decimated. Their neighbors in the region are allied against them. They haven't exported a drop of oil since July.

29:06Their economy is teetering on the brink of collapse. Do you think defending the war is the right move for Republicans? I think defending the... Mike Rogers in Michigan was saying it should end. Well, look, I think some candidates have chosen the path of saying, I want to bring it to an end, or I think Ashley Hinton said, I want to bring it to a successful end. I think we are bringing it to a successful end right now. We've got these people on the ropes. I think we've already won. We just need to bring about the final conditions here that make it so that Iran cannot threaten the United States of America, our allies, or continue to be the world's largest state sponsor of terror, which is what they've been for the last half century.

29:41I don't think the president started a war. I think he's finishing one. You know, look, here's what this reminds me so much of 20 years ago in the 2006 midterms when we were talking about the Iraq and Afghanistan war and very similar arguments where, you know, on the one hand, people were trying candidates, Republican candidates were trying having to try to defend why this was still a good thing. when in the face of overwhelming, increasing public anxiety about what is the plan to get us out? And have we accomplished the objective? Nobody wants Iran to have a nuclear weapon. Prior to full stop.

30:18And that's really not the question. The question is, is this the right course of action? Are there other, should we be, you know, is this president, is this, you know, is he qualified and able to bring it to a successful end? And I think in a state like Georgia, to your point, where we're talking about costs, people are wanting to hear that member, that their elected officials are conscientious of the toll that it is taking on them. And we heard, you know, similarly, I've heard Abdul El-Sayed in Michigan talk about, let's bring more of that money and invest it here at home. Again, very similar arguments we were making in 2006 that were resonating with Americans and are resonating again.

30:55You know, and we back in a different world thought that Ossoff would be one of the toughest, closest races we were watching. He's been fundraising pretty well and polling pretty well. In Ohio, where it's a lot different story, Senator Sharon Brown is actually holding a six-point lead over John Husted, the Republican in that race. Iowa Senate race shows a toss-up. Trump carried both of those states by double digits in 2024. Why are the Republicans struggling, do you think, Scott? Look, I think there's a lot of close Senate races because people do have anxiety about the cost of living. Of course, 95 % of what they have anxiety about was created under Joe Biden.

31:31I mean, I think if you look at the recent government data from the Agriculture Department, for instance, food inflation has largely been tamed by this administration. People are still feeling a serious hangover from four years of Joe Biden and the Democrats digging a very deep hole. I think these Democrats are promising nothing but a return to the shovels. Now, the Republicans are in charge and they have to answer for it. And what they have to say is good. We've cut taxes. We've supercharged economic growth. We are getting out of the hole that we were left. That's the debate that's being had. I don't hear a single Democrat candidate offering a single proposal of a single bill that would change anything, particularly on gas prices, which Democrats have advocated for higher prices for for years.

32:08Well, actually, what Democrats are talking about is that we need to we do need to end this war. And as a way to be, I mean, the president says once it's over, gas prices are magically going to come down. But look, you know, I mean, Republicans, I guess, are doing the best they can in the environment that they can. But again, I would argue we have strong candidates. We have candidates who are talking about the lived experience and the economic pain that people are really feeling. And when you have a president who consistently is talking about how many millions for an arch and how many millions he wants to repaint the OEOB, he wants to, you know, all these vanity projects.

32:46I mean, our own colleague, Kirsten Soltis-Anderson, said, for example, that she's hearing in focus groups that Trump voters are saying, we're sick of the retribution. You're not even talking about us. So that's, I think, you know, to Scott's point, the costs are not going down. Wages are not keeping up with the cost of inflation. Gas prices and things like, you know, farmers are getting hit because of the decisions that Donald Trump has made. You know, there was something else that happened today in terms of these headlines. We also spoke to Senator Bernie Sanders about this. It was an announcement by Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth on the USS Abraham Lincoln that the public is going to be able to watch the firing squad execution of the Fort Hood shooter.

33:29This is what he said. Army Major betrays his country. Radical Islamist kills a bunch of Americans at Fort Hood. Of course, we're going to do it at Fort Hood and do it on a Thursday. We're going to do it at one o 'clock, which is when he did it. And it's going to be soldiers with rifles executing the firing squad. It hadn't been since World War II since we've done that. Well, I kind of like the mentality we had in World War II, which was win, which was understand when the enemy attacks you, you need to stand your ground. We'll make sure that people are able to watch it, that it's public, because people need to understand that there's serious consequences for these types of things.

34:05Do you agree this should be live streamed? I have mixed emotions about that. I don't mind the firing squad. I don't mind doing it at Fort Hood. I think most of what he said is a good course of action for meeting out this punishment. Have mixed emotions about the live stream, truthfully. I know a lot of executions are public in some way because they allow media and a few members of the public in to watch. Yeah, but that's different than live streaming. Live streaming is a much different thing. It's ghoulish. I mean, it's very unnerving, the idea. But also the idea that standing on the deck of the Lincoln, given what the men and women on that ship have gone through when it is their day, it is about them coming home.

34:45That's when you choose to make this decision and announce it. And it is so out of touch. It is. It reminded me of the ads that Trump is running that says, dude, do you not get people are hurting? They don't. This is not going to solve their problem. Your uber machismo, let's give them, you know, gender affirming care in the form of testosterone shots. That is not addressing the real problems, nor is it addressing the concerns that people have about what is happening in Iran and how it's going to come to an end. Karen Finney, Scott Jennings, thank you both for being here tonight. Up next, what the vice president said when I asked him on what grade he believes their administration deserves when it comes to the economy.

35:32You have to remember, Caitlin, that we inherited the worst inflation crisis in 48 years in the United States of America.

35:48I would say this. I give us an A plus on the government, on economics, on everything. Look at inflation. I inherited the worst inflation in history under Biden. Worst in history. And now it's great. Days after President Trump gave his administration an A-plus on everything, including the economy, I asked Vice President J.D. Vance about why they deserve that grade. Given how close we are to the midterms and you've been out on the campaign trail, given inflation, mortgage rates, and gas prices are all higher than when you took office, why does this administration deserve an A-plus on the economy, as President Trump says?

36:27You have to remember, Caitlin, that we inherited the worst inflation crisis in 48 years in the United States of America. We have seen$19 trillion of new investment come. Does some of those benefits take time? It takes time to build a factory. It takes time to hire the people who are going to work in the factory. One of the reasons why I think we deserve an A-plus from the American worker is because we're finally cutting down on the fraud that's depriving them of good wages and good jobs. According to CNN polling, only 27 percent of Americans actually approve of President Trump's handling of the economy.

37:02And as you just heard, the president, the vice president, a lot of senior White House officials have been explaining those numbers by pointing to the past, claiming that economic problems were inherited from President Biden, who, of course, left office over 600 days ago. Here's what the numbers say. The inflation rate on President Biden's final day in office in January 2025 was 3%. 21 months into President Trump's term, the most recent government data shows that it has since increased to 3.4%. At the pump, gas was a little over$3 a gallon at the end of President Biden's term. It had gone down under President Trump, but now, more than seven months into the war with Iran, the average is$4.36 a gallon.

37:48The vice president today also echoed what President Trump said about the administration bringing in$19 trillion in new investments. But the White House's actual own website claims that those total new investments are closer to$11.2 trillion. And my colleague, CNN's resident fact checker Daniel Dale, has pointed out it actually includes trillions of dollars in vague pledges or statements that don't really have firm commitments. My political insiders are here now. And Jeff Zeleny, you know, obviously you've been out traveling ahead of the midterm elections, talking to voters, talking to these candidates.

38:22I think the real question is, as reporters, we're so used to hearing that answer from the administration. They inherited it from Biden. The question is, do voters buy that answer? I will tell you, one place you don't hear that answer is in Republican running for the House and Senate on the debate stage. They are not blaming on Joe Biden because they know it's not selling. But I was with President Trump at a rally in Nebraska on Monday evening. And one of the quietest applause line, tepid applause, was when he was blaming things on Biden. There literally was very little reaction in the room. And when I was talking to so many voters that day, as we do all the time, literally no one else at this point or very few people are blaming this on President Biden.

39:01I mean, it worked last year to a point. But this year, particularly because of the Iran war, it's a changed thing. dramatically. But our new poll today showed that three-fourths of voters in Iowa and Ohio blame President Trump's policies for costs going up. We don't see three-quarters of agreement on virtually anything. So I think that this argument here in Washington the president's making just simply does not wash out in America. Yeah. And I mean, I think that's the real problem for the administration is when they're actually dealing with that, you know, how they confront that. Do Do they develop a new message?

39:39Because they're saying A +, if you're running in a tight race, you're not really able to sell that to voters. Well, it's fitting that they're making the comparison to Biden in this sense, because they're handling it exactly the way that Biden did by saying, you know, it's really not as bad. If you look at the numbers, it's not as bad as what you're feeling. And actually, Democrats aren't selling my agenda enough. They need to be out there persuading people that it's better than they think it is. And it's interesting to hear Trump taking that same line, that he's giving themselves an A-plus on governing, and he says the problem is communicating.

40:18I mean, marketing and sales are supposed to be his whole thing. Yeah, the president has been saying the only issue is not the economy, it's not the numbers. It's the bad PR, and basically he's the only one who can go out there and sell it. he seems convinced, Jeff, that these rallies are going to change voters' minds. Do you get that sense? I mean, obviously, the rallies are the diehards of the diehards, but what was your sense in Nebraska? Look, I mean, there's no doubt that people are very happy to see him who go to the rally. I mean, you invest hours and hours of your day. People are happy to see him of his loyal base, but it's an open question how helpful this is if it's, A, firing up independents and the Democratic base.

40:56But I have no doubt that in some small degree it may help in the red states. That's why we have to point out at the final stages of this race it's being effectively run on the red state map. So it would be surprising if he didn't help at all. Texas is one place, I think, his repeated visits there. If he cannot pull Ken Paxton over the finish line there with all his visits then it won't work anywhere. Yeah, even though he wasn't really talking about Ken Paxton that much. But he's reminding people of an election, I think. He's trying to remind people that, you know, do it for me, for the gipper, if you will.

41:34You know, the other thing that the vice president got asked about today, which is quite a moment, is the Wall Street Journal report last night that came out. Kimberly Guilfoyle was trying to solicit a donor for$100K to pay off her Amex bill quietly before she got confirmed as the ambassador to Greece. Rubio and Vance were both asked about this story, and this is what they said to reporters today.

41:59Do you have any reaction to a U.S. government official, in this case a U.S. ambassador, asking someone to pay off debt in exchange to access to other government officials? Well, so with that hypothetical, Jen, obviously I don't love that, but I don't know exactly who you're talking about. I don't know the full details. Sir, do you have anything new on the reporting from the Wall Street Journal that Ambassador Guilfoyle had sought finance? Yeah, guys, let me tell you something, okay? You guys are going to ask me this, you're going to ask me again in Portugal. I know the game, okay? I'm not going to comment on a story that literally posted a few hours ago.

42:36I get the game. I mean, what did you make of those answers? Vance's face alone kind of showed how uncomfortable he was with the story, I thought, as someone who was in the room today. Yeah, I mean, I don't really expect this to show up in a lot of attack ads out in the congressional races. I'm not sure that this is... Kimberly Guilfoyle is not engaged to Don Jr. anymore. I'm not sure that this is the scandal that's going to bring down the State Department or the White House. But it does play into a campaign theme that we are hearing, which is corruption. The Democrats are really emphasizing the enrichment by Trump and his family of the presidency and connecting that to individual candidates doing things like trading stocks while in Congress.

43:21Yeah. I mean, Jeff, you've covered Washington, you've covered the White House. What do you think the reaction would be in a different world to an ambassador of such a caliber and position, you know, soliciting this money and also making very clear she didn't want it to be known? It would be unfathomable. I mean, but now it's just one in a string of things. But to Isaac's point, the corruption argument is one thing that I do hear voters talking about, the grift and things. I can't imagine this in any other administration not having congressional hearings, other things. You can recall an ambassador.

43:54I mean, she was confirmed by the Senate. I mean, there are methods for oversight here. We're not going to hear any of that. But it's just one more thing, I think, in the litany of examples that we heard. But$100 ,000 for a month. I mean, imagine what that paid for. A lot of good shopping, maybe. Who knows? Jeff Zeleny, Isaac Arnstorff, great to have you both here tonight with your reporting. Thank you so much. Up next, it is time for Source Code. Tonight, it is 67. I'll be right back with the story.

44:33Tonight's Source Code is 67. That's because that's how many counties across Florida and Alabama have declared a state of emergency this evening as they're bracing for the hurricane to make landfall on Saturday morning. The Category 2 storm is churning out 100-mile-per-hour winds right now, and forecasters say the storm is only gathering strength as it heads towards the northern Gulf Coast, and it could bring up to 7 feet of storm surge and potentially 15 inches of rain. Tornadoes could also pop up with little notice, as people who live in the state and in the area know. Right now, this is the first hurricane of the Atlantic's season.

45:09Evacuations have been underway for several areas along the coast. Georgia's governor, Brian Kemp, says he is prepared to mobilize up to 500 members of the National Guard if needed. You can stay with CNN for the latest on this hurricane. And for live updates and alerts, download the CNN weather app. You can stream The Source live or watch it on demand anytime with an all-access subscription. Scan the QR code on your screen or go to cnn.com slash watch to learn more. Thank you so much for joining us here tonight on The Source. CNN Newsnight with Abby Phillips starts now.

46:08And so the question that we're going to try to tackle is... Is fashion terrible now? Well, no, I mean, I would phrase it as how do you develop a personal style in the age of AI slop? You know, on social media, like creators have to try a whole bunch of different things and see what catches and then they make it over and over and over again. The same thing happens with clothing. So they're sort of seeding the market, seeding the internet with all of these different ideas. And then they can see what sells and then they can just make them really fast. Follow Engagement Party. Wherever you get your podcasts.