Republicans Scrambling to Explain Trump’s $5K Pledge

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1:24As we come on the air night two of the president's attempt to boost his party's election prospects and defy history is underway this evening with Vice President JD Vance set to take the stage in Dallas shortly. The president is also going to make his second address to the crowd at the American Airlines Center this hour. And once again, our experts and our analysts are standing by covering the events in real time. You'll see their thoughts on your screen throughout the hour as it comes in and as we hear what the two candidates are arguing on stage tonight and all the other candidates who are running ahead of the November midterm elections.

2:00But as for President Trump himself before he gets on stage, it's actually what he promised there last night that's getting all the attention and caught several people in his party off guard. Here is my promise. If the Republicans win the House of Representatives and the United States Senate, both of them, because of our economic, tremendous economic success, I will issue a dividend to every adult citizen in the United States of America for$5 ,000. Now, sources say with that promise, the president actually blindsided several people in his own administration. He set off an internal scramble to produce the specifics of what exactly he's proposing.

2:49And the president had apparently only discussed it with a handful of advisors beforehand. Now, Democrats are calling what the president pledged there bribery. And some of the Republican candidates that he's trying to help with that pledge seems skeptical at best, or at least struggling to sell it. What I'm saying is simply that people right now, our economy, we need this stimulus, and this is going to help stimulate our economy. Fundamentally, the question is, how would you pay for it? And so the devil, of course, is always in the details. Is that the president buying American votes? And do you like that, sir?

3:25We need to have people keep more of their money. Is that a, you know, basically a bribe? Well, it's an interesting plan. I just I first heard of it last night. Well, in his own fundraising emails, the president has gone from I will issue to I will look to issue. And the amount has also shifted from a hard five grand to up to five thousand dollars. Even the fact sheet that was released by the White House today indicates that this is all very much still a work in progress. It says this, quote, the same leadership that shattered the old limits of what Washington thought possible is now prepared to put$5 ,000 directly into Americans' pockets.

4:07But no specifics in that statement or really anywhere else for that matter, including the big$1.3 trillion question tonight, which is where is this money going to come from? For an idea that was designed to help Republicans maintain control of Congress, the president and his party are not on the same page about what role Congress would actually play in all of this. Republican Senator Bernie Moreno, for example, has been posting about getting a bill ready. But the president just told CBS he actually doesn't need Congress to do this. I'm wondering, would Congress need to approve that? Well, we think not.

4:43I think they will do it if we needed it, but we think not. The country is doing so well. We've taken in trillions of dollars in tariffs and other things. We have now over 20 trillion dollars worth of manufacturing plants and other investments being made in the United States, which is far greater than ever before. And we think it's something that would be good. We do have a one proviso. And that's that the money be spent. People spend their money in the United States. We don't want to have that money spent in other countries. and we think it's something that's really good, popular, and it's a great infusion.

5:21It's not really clear how the president would be able to control how Americans spend their money. And the reality is, even before the Supreme Court had struck down some of the president's tariffs, the amount wasn't even close to a trillion dollars, much less$20 trillion. On Fox tonight, the president was asked another key question. If you can do it, why wait until after the election? Why not just give the money now? If you have the money, why not give it now? Because they can't, I'll tell you what, because the Democrats can't do it. Because with them, it's negative growth. With us, it's so positive.

5:54Now, this may all sound familiar to you because you've likely heard it before. The promise of a check in the mail, it's really become a staple of the president's second term. There was talk of a$5 ,000 stimulus from Doge savings that never happened with Elon Musk. There was also talk of$500 from savings from those expiring Obamacare subsidies. Also, those$2 ,000 checks that were supposed to come from the tariffs. There's even under consideration a new concept where we give 20 % of the Doge savings to American citizens. I love it, a 20 % dividend, so to speak, for the money that we're saving. We're thinking about a rebate because we have so much money coming in from tariffs.

6:40We're going to issue a dividend to our middle-income people and lower-income people of about$2 ,000. Will that be in time for Christmas, probably shopping? No, no, not for this year. It'll be next year sometime. We have so much money coming in from tariffs that we'll be able to issue at least a$2 ,000 dividend and also pay down debt. Several ideas, thoughts, and promises, but no delivery. And just a reminder, the national debt recently topped$40 trillion. If this actually happened, it would add another trillion to that. And the president's government checks proposal is a pretty striking shift also from the message that we've been hearing from Republicans for hours on that very same stage where he spoke last night that they've been railing against.

7:27There is absolutely nothing democratic about socialism. Will we dream heroic dreams and build a better future? Or will we surrender to socialism? We choose capitalism over socialism. Democrats have been overtaken by radical socialists. America has a choice. Stupid socialism and gridlock or steady progress. You don't even really have to go back that far to find a Republican president who openly mocked the idea of promising government handouts as a way to win support at the ballot box. Really, you only have to go back to June. I think I'd be the greatest communist in history. I'd give free rent.

8:12Ladies and gentlemen, from now on, you don't have to pay any rent. From now on, anybody wants a house, don't worry about it. Just pick the house you want. Everybody gets free food. Everything is free from this point forward. Everyone's going to vote for me. My lead source tonight has been mentioned at the Republican Midterm Convention about as much as anyone who is not named Donald Trump. He's actually the Democratic nominee for Senate in Michigan. Abdul El-Sayed is joining us again tonight. Thank you, sir, for being here. You know, when we listen to the president and what he promised last night, how Republicans have responded, given one of your campaign slogans is, quote, money in your pocket, do you support a$5 ,000 check for Americans?

8:55You know, it sounds like the president has really taken on that communism thing and has just decided that he's going to embrace that. Look, my goal is to do that by taking on the monopolies and the oligopolies that make you pay too much for the stuff that you have to buy and pay you too little for the work that you do. it's guaranteeing you things like healthcare into the future, not just a one-time$5 ,000 bribe because it sounds like the only possible way to rescue your failing numbers because of the stupid tariff war that you started and the war in Iran you can't seem to get out of. So I just want good governance.

9:31And what's interesting to me is that it's the only time that anybody at that conference has mentioned the affordability crisis at all. A one-time$5 ,000 cash infusion that he doesn't know how to pay for, but he doesn't want to actually address the fact that people can't afford their gas, can't afford their groceries. They're worried about having to see a doctor in this economy. And all of it goes back to his broken policies and the candidates who he's summoned to come pay fealty to him. They don't have anything to say about it at all. Like Mike Rogers, the guy I'm earning against. Some people might hear you say this sounds like a bribe and see that, you know, you've championed other kinds of federal payments, subsidizing child care in that form, potentially reparations.

10:12Why is this different? This is about if we win, it was exactly what he said. He said, if we, if Republicans win both houses, then he'll, without an act of Congress, give every adult$5 ,000. It is a quid pro quo. I'm talking about policy that actually addressed the affordability crisis in this country. It's about actually building a livable America where people aren't worried about how they're going to be able to afford their gas, their groceries, or the ability to see a doctor. The fact that people should be able to have kids without having to worry about one of two of the parents having to leave the workforce, usually women, and the kind of America where you know you get good schools.

10:54The difference is that we want to govern for the issues that people are facing rather than buy people off because they voted for us. Do you think if Republicans did keep the House and the Senate that Americans would actually ever see those$5 ,000 checks? No. I mean, look, he said the same thing about Doge. The only person who got a Doge dividend was Elon Musk. And now he's spending it to, again, interfere with our elections. He's spending money in my race and races all over the country. Doge never actually resulted in the outcomes that they said it was going to result in. All the money they said they were going to save that was going to be returned in a dividend, that never happened.

11:31Instead, what we got is cyclosporiasis and people sitting on toilets because they got to dodge lettuce in the United States of America. So they break government, tell us that they're going to pay us back, and it never quite happens. I just want to be clear about what's happening here in Michigan. The average Michigander is paying$5 ,600 for this stupid tariff war we shouldn't be fighting. And now he comes back and says, if Republicans win both houses of Congress, that he wants to pay back a part of it. Not even the whole thing. I mean, this is classic Trumpism. ruin your life, and then give you a little bit of something for it as long as you vote in the right direction.

12:02Your opponent, the Republican in your race, Mike Rogers, also spoke at this convention tonight. I want everyone to listen to part of what he said in his speech. I never imagined that 25 years after 9-11, I would be running against somebody that campaigns with Hassan Piker who thinks America deserved it. On the eve of the anniversary of 9-11, what is your response to what Mike Rogers said about you tonight? I mean, it's sad. He doesn't really want to talk about any of the issues people are really facing. You know, I don't know what campaign trail he's been on. His includes Dallas, apparently. I was in another city that starts with a D that's actually in Michigan today, having conversations with actual voters in our state.

12:47But if he thinks that the issue is a streamer in California, then he's got another thing coming. because what I hear about is the fact that people can't afford their gas. They can't afford their groceries. They're worried about having to see a doctor. And it all goes back to policies from the guy who summoned him. And I guess if daddy asks for a hug, you got to go give him a hug, even if it's in Dallas. But I don't know what he's doing in Dallas because he's certainly not talking about the issues that Michiganders face. And he seems not to want to do that either. He's dodging a debate that we're having in the city of Detroit next week.

13:16Now, Mike, I know you're probably watching this. You're welcome to come. I'll find you. I know the internet's hard, but we'll find you some tickets so you can actually answer questions that Michiganders are really asking if you'd like to have that debate on the 15th. Until then, you can keep talking about cultural war issues, but they're not actually addressing the problems that Michiganders are facing. Senator Ted Cruz was also speaking tonight at this convention. He's not in a competitive race, as you're alluding to the fact that your opponent is. But when he was on stage, there was a moment where he mentioned you.

13:46And I just want everyone to listen closely to what happened and what the response was in the audience, as Ted Cruz mentioned to you. When Mondami says he wants to seize the means of production, he means it. When Abdul Al-Sayed says he has a, quote, obligation to comply with Sharia law, he means it. And when James Tallarico says he wants to dismantle capitalism. He means it. I mean, it's not clear if Senator Cruz could hear what that audience member was saying. But when you heard that, what went through your mind? Look, I'm a dad with two daughters, and I hope those daughters get to grow up and live with their dad.

14:40This is what has become norm in our politics. I mean, literally calls to violence and the inability for anybody to actually call it out. Democracy is supposed to be the process by which we solve our problems peacefully. We can learn to disagree agreeably. And when you hear that kind of call to violence, it should be shuddering to all of us. We have a responsibility to lower the temperature, to realize that this is not a blood sport where you're just trying to bash the other guy. This is about actually solving problems that real people face. The reason I got into politics is not because I wanted to beat Republicans.

15:18I got into politics because I wanted to heal people. And I realized that our healthcare system was failing to do that, more interested in billing than healing. And so I hope that everybody who heard that is going to call it out for what it is, a call to violence that ought to be condemned across the board. And that we can actually turn our politics back into a conversation about what really matters, the ability to live a dignified life, get the things that you need and deserve in your life, and recognize that our democracy, so long as we're willing to dignify it and uphold it, is the best means we have to solving the challenges that we face together.

15:53Yeah, and obviously as we are at the anniversary of Charlie Kirk's murder, obviously no one should condone any kinds of calls for political violence. As you mentioned, what's coming up in Michigan, this debate that you're trying to have with Mike Rogers, and you look at the numbers of what's going on inside your race, I'm sure you've seen these numbers from CNN's latest poll that show 50 % of Michigan voters say that they believe your positions are too liberal. 42 % say that your opponents are too conservative. But what do you say to those 50 % of Michigan voters in this poll who believe you're too liberal?

16:32I believe in that poll. I'm also leading in the poll. I think our responsibility is to talk about how we actually solve the problems we face. Look, if the current approach that Donald Trump is taking is working for you, if you feel like paying$5 for gas is working for you, if you're not worried about seeing a doctor and that's working for you, if you're not worried about being able to pay your rent or your mortgage next month, if you think that the school that your kid goes to is a quality school and doesn't need any more investment, then I might not be your choice. But if you believe that we've got to get money out of politics so that our politicians actually work for us rather than a payday like the one that Mike Rogers took when he moved to Florida and bought a mansion and two yachts, if you believe that we need to spend our money here rather than sending it to subsidized foreign military somewhere else, if you believe that you ought to be able to see a doctor when you get sick without having to worry about debt, then I hope that I can earn your support.

17:26That to me is not too liberal, too conservative. The real issue in our politics is not about liberal and conservative. It is about the few who lock the rest of us out and whether or not we're willing to unlock that system for everybody. That's what this campaign has been about, what it's going to continue to be about so folks can live a dignified life where they're not so worried about what happens next month. J.D. Vance was telling people behind closed doors as he was speaking today, Republicans, he was saying they should nationalize the midterms in part by making it about you. He said that you may very well be the person who wins Republicans the midterms in November because he says you're, quote, such a crazy person.

18:03When you look at that and you listen to those polls or you see what those voters are saying in those polls, do you worry that your past positions or your current positions are a liability for other Democrats who are running to not as far or not as much on the left as you are? Look, at the end of the day, I think all of us as Democrats are united in the notion that Donald Trump is an existential threat to democracy itself. Look, he's trying to bribe people, trying to literally bribe American voters. If my party wins, then I'm going to write you a$5 ,000 check. That is a quid pro quo. If they were so confident about this election, then I think he wouldn't have to be saying that amidst all the other cultural war stuff that they're saying.

18:44They can go ahead and nationalize this, but every time they do, they're not actually talking about the issues that everybody faces all over this country. They're talking about culture war issues. They're pointing to me, pointing to my ethnicity, pointing to the way I pray, pointing to the fact that my wife wears a hijab and trying to say that somehow that is less American. I think America is a place where all of us can come together, where all of us are paying too much for gas. All of us are paying too much for groceries. All of us are worried about seeing a doctor. So they can go ahead and nationalize it.

19:14but I'm going to be focused on the issues Michiganders face. Democrats are united that if we can put a check on Trumpism and defeat his handpicked sock puppets, we actually can start to address the challenges that people all over this country, and particularly here in Michigan, are facing. Abdul El-Sayed, thank you for joining us tonight. Appreciate your time. Thanks for having me, Kailan. I appreciate you. Up next, our political panel of experts is here to join me as night two of the midterm convention is underway. We're expecting the Vice President J.D. Vance on stage soon. Will he promise the same$5 ,000 checks that the President pledged last night?

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20:41a dollar a day right now get 70 off your new system with professional monitoring at simply safe.com spotify 30 seconds response time requires monitoring plan with outdoor protection starting at 49.99 a month visit simply safe.com licenses for alarm license information welcome back to cnn's special coverage of the republican midterm convention that's underway trying to look a lot like a republican national convention during a presidential year any moment now we are expecting the vice president jd vance to take the stage to speak My political sources are here joining me, including former New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio, former Trump campaign manager Bill Stepien, and also the former senior advisor to President Obama, David Axelrod.

21:22And it's great to have all of you here. And Bill Stepien, obviously you worked for Trump, you know his political ways and what he's trying to do by defying history with this convention for his party's odds in an off election year. What do you make of how the convention's gone so far? I think exceedingly well. I mean, I think it's needed. There is a historic enthusiasm gap between the two parties. Democrats are frothing at the mouth. Republicans are on the couch, fat, dumb, and lazy at home. There's an 18 % gap in enthusiasm between the two parties. The last time it's been that large is 2010 when Democrats gained or Republicans gained 63 seats.

22:01So there is a real enthusiasm problem for the party right now. The only one who could fix it, in theory, is Donald Trump. But I guess the question is, is what we've seen so far motivating to the president's base, to Republicans, to independents? I think not. I'll tell you why. It looks like elitism. It looks like more of the establishment talking to each other, getting together, having a great time, not addressing what people are going through. This is a country where people are hurting in a way I don't think we've ever seen in our lives, this sense of sort of desperation out there. For them to be partying and saluting each other in suits.

22:35I mean, this is just not what people are looking for. So if Bill's right that the idea is to motivate, this is not the way to do it. Well, Axe, I mean, the vice president's about to get on stage. We know that he is skeptical of the Iran war, always has been going into it, even though he's defended it. And last week told me he doesn't actually consider it to be a war. There he is on stage tonight, as we'll be watching to see what he says. How do you think he's going to thread this needle in terms of what Americans are paying for gas, inflation concerns, how much oil a barrel is right now with trying to rev up voters tonight?

23:14Yeah, well, I think that he's going to try and attack Democrats is what he's going to try and do. And I think that's how the Republicans are going to try and rev up voters, because, you know, we have a president who promised to lower costs and costs are higher. and people associate a lot of those higher costs with two things, or three things, with tariffs, with the war, and with his inattention to the economy while he's worried about things like ballrooms and arches. So, you know, the only other strategy is to inflame people about the other party and try and raise the level of threat. And I think that's where the vice president will likely go with his speech.

23:55One thing I would say about the game, I think this is a huge gamble because I think both Democrats and Republicans apparently want to make Trump the issue in this campaign. I think the Republicans are gambling that the only people who are really watching this convention are MAGA people because most other Americans are not. They're watching football. They're doing other things. And so maybe their gamble is that they can sort of cast to the people they need to motivate and others won't be watching. Or they're watching The Source at 9 p.m. Bill, you know, with the president. Of course, I mean, he meant to say that first.

24:34It was implied. We already knew, Axe. But when the president got on stage last night for nearly two hours, he spoke. I think it was an hour, 45 minutes. That's no surprise to anyone who covers him because he regularly speaks at length, but he's promising$5 ,000 checks to Americans. I mean, today, no one has really provided specifics of what that would look like. Do you even think that's a real thing? Or is that one of the things that, you know, he says and just disappears into the ether? So when a campaign year, a politician makes a promise or pulls a gimmick out of the hat, like I'm shocked. Look, I think what makes the problem worse is the inattention that was just mentioned.

25:10I think there's a big gap between what Americans care about and when Americans think Trump cares about or what he's doing. And he mentioned, you mentioned what he said last night. There were 22 times where he mentioned affordability or prices. That's about 23 times more than usual. So for me, it was a step in the right direction, recognition that there is a problem. We may think that the solution is unlawful or not prudent or deficit adding, but it's a step in the right direction. And Americans need to hear more of that he's not an I feel your pain kind of guy, obviously. He's not Bill Clinton.

25:44But this is a step in the right direction to at least address, to start to talk about the problem. Well, J.D. Vance is focusing on the candidates. I mean, today, as we just mentioned with the Democratic nominee in Michigan, he's saying, let's nationalize this. Let's make it about these candidates who are further to the left and some of the more moderate Democrats. Do you think that could be effective? I don't. I think the issue is Donald Trump. The issue is the economy. There is no way that you can ignore that in this context. And Mike Rogers in Michigan, the Republican, is thoroughly tied to Trump.

26:13He can't run away from that association. Look, I think the notion, I appreciate Bill's point that maybe it's a step in the right direction for Donald Trump to try and bribe the American people by offering them$5 ,000 if they vote Republican. I get that, but I'm going to tell you why I think it actually backfires. In a way, it's very insulting to the voters. You know, they actually want a response on tariffs. They want a response on the war. They want to hear that something's going to change. They actually want to hear a different direction. And if I said to you, well, I'm going to keep everything the way it is, but I'll give you a check, In a way, that's a slap in the face to the voters.

26:42You know, it was interesting, Axe. I was looking at Truth Social today, as I regularly do to monitor the president's post. And when he posted about that pledge last night, a lot of the comments on it were kind of dragging him or criticizing him or saying, yeah, we're never going to see these checks. I mean, and these are people on the president's own social media platform. I am waiting for the first poll that asks people whether they think they will get this check, because I would guess that a vast majority of Americans know that it's a bunch of BS. I mean, the president's made a lot of lavish promises over the last several years, very few of which he's followed through on relative to the economy.

27:24And I think people hear this and they say this is just more of the same. And, you know, the danger for him is that he, you know, Bill says, well, campaign promises in a, you know, shock of all shocks. That's true. But one of the things that Trump has sort of capitalized on is the sense of authenticity that he's leveling with people and so on. And I think this is such patent, you know, nonsense that people look at it and say, you know what, this isn't a real answer to my concern. This is something some consultant told him or he dreamed up just to make himself look like he's dealing with. Remember, he mentioned affordability and cost last night.

28:08Most of the time when he talks about affordability and you know this, Caitlin, because you follow him in speeches, it's to mock the word. It's to mock the concept. He insists that the economy actually is great, that people are doing better, that we've never been in better shape. It just does not match people's experience. And that is the danger of having Donald Trump out there because he insists on a reality that people aren't living. And every time he does, it hurts Republican candidates. Axe, Stepien, Mayor, everyone stick around because we're going to continue to cover this as we're watching what the vice president himself is saying on stage tonight on the final night of this convention.

28:50Does he bring up the checks? Does he bring up the Iran war? What does he say as they are going to close the night out by a balloon drop this evening? More right after this.

29:07Starting a business can seem like a daunting task, unless you have a partner like Shopify. They have the tools you need to start and grow your business. From designing a website, to marketing, to selling, and beyond, Shopify can help with everything you need. There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz, and Allbirds continue to trust and use them. With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into... Sign up for your$1 per month trial at shopify.com slash special offer. Welcome back to CNN's special coverage of the Republican Midterm Convention. The Vice President J.D. Vance is on the stage right now.

29:45He'll hand it over to President Trump shortly to close out a two-day, really what is a political gamble, to try to protect Republican control of the House and Senate in Washington. A major factor ahead of this November election is the war in Iran. And we heard from President Trump tonight on how much longer he thinks the war will last and whether or not he has any regrets about it.

30:10So, there's confusion out there about how long this will go on. It's very difficult to say. It's going to end right after the election. I think it was The Wall Street Journal that said that Rubio and Vance believed the conflict could go on after the next presidential election until January 2029. I'm not going to say when, but I think it ends right after the election. Any regrets? No. I think—I don't believe in the word regret. that you can always question yourself a little bit. And a few people have asked me that. If I had it to do again, I'd do exactly as I did. But even the neoconservatives are saying, if you're going to go in, go in full.

30:48Just go in and take them out. Well, maybe I don't do that because of the election. You know, I want to keep things up. We're taking a lot of oil, you know. My political sources are back with me now. I mean, Bill Stepien, when you listen to the president there saying, no regrets about this war, even though it's pretty unpopular with the American people because they're paying the cost of it in terms of gas prices, American lives. What do you make of that? I mean, I think about 2018, I was the White House political director. Economy was humming, stock market record high, unemployment 50-year low.

31:22We lost 41 seats as a party that November. I think about the challenges this year, right? We know about the challenges with inflation. at war, his net approval is five points worse than 2018, you know, you brace yourself for what might become this war. Yeah, I think that's a good point, actually, in terms of how much better the prospects were then, and still, Democrats gained a lot of seats. Look, let's put in perspective this is the first time there was a major military action the American people turned against instantly. You know, in our entire history, the American people have generally given the benefit of doubt to the administration, whichever administration, to the military.

31:58This time, from the outset, you saw it in the polling, clear majorities thought we had no business in Iran. Now, this president has not only not extricated himself, he's literally saying, oh, you know, I'm approaching it politically. I mean, that's what that interview said, where American lives, and obviously a lot of human beings, a lot of civilians are on the line losing their lives because of this guy's faint political idea of what he's doing. That's a very troubling interview, in a sense. But it also says there's no plan to get the hell out, which is exactly, if you said one thing the American people would want most at this moment, it would be to get out of Iran, and he doesn't have a plan.

32:34Well, also, Ax, when you listen to that, the president went from saying, which he's been saying the last two days, he thinks Iran will end the war the day after the midterm elections. But also when Laura Ingraham was asking him, you know, well, the people who really want you to finish the war want you to go even harder than the United States is doing right now. He was essentially arguing, well, there's an election at play here. Maybe that could come after the election. Yeah, he's confused. I don't think he knows exactly where to go here. The one thing I would say is that it's interesting that he said, yeah, this is going to end the day after the election.

33:13Because remember, he told us it would be over in three weeks and periodically over the course of the late winter and spring, he said, well, I think it's going to end very shortly. It's going to end in a few days. I think we're going to turn the corner. And he's finally learned the lesson that maybe I should kick the ball past the midterms because it's probably not going to happen. But I wouldn't necessarily take this forecast any more seriously than I would take the others based on the president's track record of predicting on this war. I think the thing that has been exposed here is there wasn't a whole lot of thinking about what next when they started this thing, including the Strait of Hormuz, and they got themselves into a very sticky wicket.

34:02And now they're into the thing the president promised that he wouldn't get us into. And the effect of it goes back to the main issue we've been talking about, which is it It is raising the cost of so many things that affect people's lives. Why is Iowa at risk here for the Republicans? Why is Ohio at risk for the Republicans? Because the tariffs have killed farmers in that state. Diesel fuel is at record highs. You know, fertilizer has become very expensive because of this war. So not only is the war more protracted and have we tragically lost lives, not small potatoes, by the way, but human lives.

34:47But it has had a tangible impact on the lives of people across this country in terms of the economy and their personal economy. Yeah. And, you know, Bill Steffian, to your point about running the political operation for the president in 2018, with the landscape like that, I mean, the argument that we've heard from some Republicans is about the war. Well, you're paying more on gas, but do you want to get hit with a nuclear weapon by Iran? Do you want them to be nuclear armed? But when you lay out the entire landscape, I mean, it is a tough sell for voters in terms of beef imports, cattle ranchers, fertilizer costs, gas.

35:25I mean, the list goes on and on. It's not just one thing here. And to the point, a lot of the states that are on the battleground map are states affected by Canada and the trade war. fertilizer, diesel. When I hear his comments about the timeline, I think it's a signal to candidates as well. Don't expect some Hail Mary to come in from the heavens between now and election day. You're kind of on your own to figure this out. It also kind of made me think, you know, should Democrats win and follow historical trends? Is the Iran war going to end anytime soon after the midterms when there's no longer a political incentive for the president either?

35:59And he doesn't have a way out. This is the irony of the whole thing. He started it without thinking it out. So what's his way out now? He's not going to get them to give up their nuclear weapons. Let's be clear. Because of the Strait of Hormuz, they have too much power. He gave them more power through this war. He's not going to find a way out. Bill de Blasio, Bill Stepien, David Axelrod, great to have all three of you here tonight. Up next, one day after we heard those apocalyptic warnings about AI, Anthropic has just revealed that it has blocked possible attempts to use its technology to develop bioweapons.

36:33Yes, my inside source tonight is a former OpenAI researcher who says everyone should take these warnings seriously.

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37:49We're still monitoring the Republican Midterm Convention in Dallas tonight, where President Trump is going to soon take the stage. Back in Washington, though, doomsday warnings that AI could pose an existential threat to humanity seem to finally be breaking through with lawmakers. Right now, politicians on both sides of the aisle have been calling for special sessions, public hearings, and also new regulations after we heard from that former anthropic researcher who said that AI companies are, quote, gambling with our lives and that they believe the technology could kill us all by the end of the decade.

38:23Now, as for President Trump, he has previously said this about AI. Some people say the worst case scenario with AI is that the robots, the machinery learns to, obviously it thinks for itself, that's what it does. And that could turn against humanity. I just, do we have the guardrails? It's going to be fine. We'll always have something to stop them, right? We'll have a little gear. I really hope so. I don't like that. I really don't like that robot. But on that front, my source tonight is former OpenAI employee who says, quote, fears that AI will cause human extinction are real and you should take them seriously.

39:02Daniel Cocotelo is the founder of the nonprofit AI Futures Project and joins me now. And thank you for being here. I mean, you heard the president there. He seemed to downplay this, say he doesn't really think it's a concern. On the other end of the political spectrum, Senator Bernie Sanders told me last night he wants to ban AI superintelligence. What do you believe is the first step that lawmakers should try to take here?

39:27Recently, more than a thousand employees at Frontier AI companies signed an open letter called Pacing the Frontier, basically begging the government to slow down their employers and have the pace of AI progress be, you know, somewhat slower than it currently is. People disagree about how much slower. That is the main thing that I think that needs to happen as soon as possible. I think that we have a lot of AI progress already. Maybe I can continue, but we don't want it to go much faster than it's currently going. And unfortunately, it seems to be accelerating due to the fact that they are beginning to automate the AI research process itself.

40:07They're starting to train AIs to write the code, to edit the code, to conduct research experiments on their own, to train future AIs, et cetera. We are close to, I would say we're maybe one to two years away from a situation where the research is all being done by AIs instead of by humans. And that would be extremely dangerous if that were to happen. So how much time would you say Congress has here to act if they are going to? And who knows, because it's Congress and they don't really do much, especially in terms of groundbreaking legislation on something like this. I think anybody would acknowledge that.

40:43how much time would you say they have? Totally. Not very much. I think that there's uncertainty about how much time we have left. I just said one to two years. Maybe it's four years, you know, maybe it's four months. But one thing I am confident in is that the sooner the better. The sooner the better. We're hearing from this, from Anthropic, who, you know, is responding to all of this today. They said in a statement to us, we have always been transparent that AI will bring both enormous benefits and unprecedented risks. To address these risks, we continue to build models with some of the strongest safeguards in the industry.

41:23Do you think that's true? I think it's a sort of corporate PR statement that we don't really need to think about much more. It's not full of much content. The high level thing is that none of these companies are at all prepared to safely automate the AI research process and kick off recursive self-improvement. That's an inherently very dangerous thing to do. And no matter which company does it first, the outcome is going to be terrible for humanity. Therefore, they have to be stopped. And I don't think they're going to stop themselves. What do you say to those who say, though, that these concerns are overwrought, that they're exaggerated, that China's building these models?

42:06And if the United States bans it or stops it or pauses it, they're just going to beat us to it. Yeah, it would be it would be bad if China kicked off recursive self-improvement because then rogue Chinese superintelligence would take over China and then come for us. However, the first step is for us to wrangle our own companies and stop them from doing this. and then perhaps simultaneously we should be starting negotiations with China to get them to be sensible as well. I'm actually optimistic that this could be done. It's going to take time and I think it's time to start it as soon as possible.

42:43Anthropic says that they had to block multiple accounts that was they were trying to use their models in ways that could support the development of bioweapons. How would that actually happen? Can you explain that? Do you do you know how that would work, actually? Well, I'm not a bioweapons engineer myself, but these AI systems are very broadly knowledgeable, right? They're trained on the whole internet. They've read every textbook. They have this very broad knowledge of all the details of all of these different fields, including biology and including gain-of-function research and things like that.

43:23And so if you had someone to be the hands for them and to sort of actually do the experiments and to buy the equipment and so forth, then that human paired with that AI could potentially accomplish something that the human by themselves would lack the expertise to do. Yeah, it's obviously a plump warning that everyone is now seeming to be talking about this week. Daniel Cocotelo, thank you for joining me tonight. It's great to have your expertise on this. Thank you. Up next for us, it is time for Source Code. We give you a number that's at the center of a story in the news. Can you figure out what that story is before we're back from break?

44:04Tonight's Source Code is five.

44:15Tonight's Source Code is five. That's because that's how many months the prosecutor who is overseeing a conspiracy investigation into the president's foes served in the role before he abruptly resigned today under pressure apparently from the Justice Department. I'm talking about Joe DiGenova, who is a Trump loyalist who was tapped to take over the investigation into the former CIA director, John Brennan, the former FBI director, James Comey, and others back in April. At the time, he had vowed to bring charges within 30 days. Five months later, that case appears to still be a work in progress.

44:49Now, sources told CNN that DeGeneva had quote disagreements with top DOJ officials over the pace of the investigation. And his resignation comes after a series of clashes with them, including one in recent days with someone who advised him that he had lost the confidence of his superiors. Tonight in a statement, DeGeneva told me quote, it was an honor and a privilege to serve the president and the department. As an old prosecutor of more than 50 years, I make cases the old fashioned way. witnesses, evidence, etc. That takes time. We'll continue to follow that. Thanks so much for joining us here tonight.

45:25CNN Newsnight with Abby Phillip starts now.

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