Republicans to Send $5M to Help Graham in SC Senate Race

0:00Every day, animals across the country face abuse and neglect. And every day, the ASPCA shows up to rescue animals in crisis. But they can't do it alone. Visit ASPCA.org slash need. Become a donor today to provide the care and shelter these animals urgently need. And for a limited time, the ASPCA will send you a free gift as a special thank you. Visit ASPCA.org slash need.

0:30Thom Tillis: Observe. The North American Dad. 50s. Great polo collection. He enters his vehicle information on Carvana. An offer appears in minutes. Remarkable. He squints, reads it again, smiles and says, dang, that's a good offer. The highest form of approval. No haggling. No hassle. No one called him boss. He's still on the couch. Astonishing. Sell your car today on Carvana.com. Pickup fees may apply. Tonight, Republican Senator Tom Tillis is here with his new book on what his fears and concerns are for the Republican Party as he warns there could be an electoral bloodbath next month. I'm Caitlin Collins and this is The Source.

1:33The state of South Carolina has not elected a Democrat to the Senate in nearly 30 years. But tonight, CNN has learned that Republicans are actually pouring millions more dollars into the state and what they're calling a, quote, insurance policy to help their Senate nominee, Darlene Graham, who is the sister of the late Senator Lindsey Graham, in a race that for the GOP is getting too close for comfort. The fact that Republicans need a$5 million insurance policy in a state that the president won by double digits just two years ago, it's just the latest in a flurry of signs that Republicans are facing a potentially increasingly hostile environment exactly four weeks from Election Day.

2:12But President Trump is arguing otherwise.

2:16Thom Tillis: By the way, I'm going around doing rallies. The Republican Party's starting to go right through the roof. Somebody said today, I wonder why. Well, I had to get out. We had to explain what we're doing. There's never been a time like this in our country. But some Republicans in tight races are indicating that they would rather the president stay away for the next month. Just yesterday, the president suggested Maine might be on his list of places to go and campaign before November 3rd. But this was Senator Susan Collins during a debate earlier this evening. President Trump this week said that he might actually visit Maine.

2:53Thom Tillis: Will you stand with him if he does? I don't think that President Trump is going to come to Maine. He's talking about going to a lot of different states. I've heard nothing from his office. And I'm not exactly his favorite senator. So yes or no? Do you have a yes or no to that? I would say that he is not coming to Maine. Okay. I think Trump would probably agree with her that she is not his favorite senator. He may not be in Maine. He may not be there campaigning with Senator Collins. The president did leave a lasting impression with that rally in Nebraska last night, though. His critics are pretty upset about one comment he made in Grand Island, where he said this about high gas prices resulting from the war with Iran.

3:40And again, remember, with the war, it's just artificial.

3:43Thom Tillis: It's a little bit high. It's a small price to pay for keeping the world safe, keeping our country safe. If they can take out a city, let them take out Los Angeles. Let them take out San Diego. This is a very small price to pay, and it's going to be over very soon. Now, the White House responded to that and the criticism of that comment, saying that the president was clearly stating U.S. cities would have been threatened if a nuclear Iran had not been stopped. And I should note, the president has made similar arguments to that before. When I asked the president twice today as he was leaving and coming back to the White House to clarify what he was saying there, he declined to comment.

4:37The president did answer, though, when he was asked about those controversial taxpayer-funded ads that he now says his super PAC will pay for instead of taxpayers. Will you reimburse the government for the millions of dollars?

4:51Thom Tillis: Well, the ads were really good. They were a promotion for the country. Done by many presidents before, so we'll decide. Now, the White House later confirmed to CNN the president is not expected to reimburse taxpayers for the$10 million they already paid to run them. But his decision to reverse course going forward comes after some unusually strong pushback from within his own party.

5:20Thom Tillis: I don't think any public official, including President Trump or Kristi Noem or John Kennedy, should spend public money on private ads for themselves. What are your thoughts on that? Is it appropriate? No. It's not even a close question. It's not appropriate, PSA. It's just not, you know, it's not how we should be spending taxpayer dollars. You know, you've taken money and communicating, regardless of the message, you're communicating fundamentally a political message. Doesn't make sense to me. The last senator you just heard from there, Tom Tillis, has emerged as one of the president's most outspoken Republican critics in his final months before retiring from office.

6:03He is pretty blunt and open on the Trump administration and his analysis of how they've been doing in his new book. part of which of that book he calls his vote for the president's defense secretary, Pete Heggseth, the biggest regret of his career. Senator Tillis is also revealing a private text that he sent to the president earlier this year where the message reads as such, As I have said before, you never threatened me with a primary challenge. I get that you may have confused me with so many Republicans that you have threatened in the past, but never me. If you had ever threatened me directly with a primary, I would have immediately told you to F yourself and I would have announced my retirement immediately.

6:43Save those threats and head games for cowards and fools. My lead source tonight is Republican Senator Tom Tillis of North Carolina, whose new book, How to Lose Friends and Antagonize Presidents, is out now and is quite blunt, as is that text message.

6:59Thom Tillis: Yeah, well, you know, the thing I admire about President Trump is we've had positive exchange of text even after that message. So it's not I know everybody's painting it as if it was some sort of a swan song. We still maintain a relationship. I don't know. When was the last time you spoke to the president? Spoke with him. It's it's probably been a month or so, but texting with them more frequently. Yeah. What do you guys talk about? Talk about it. You know, I don't talk about what I talk about with the president. That was only a one way communication. The point that I was trying to make there is, look, if the president challenges you in a primary, you would be a fool to proceed with it because, you know, take a look at Texas.

7:42Thom Tillis: Only 7 % of the electorate came out. Of course, the president's going to control the outcome in a primary. He proved that in Texas. Now we're trying to pay for the loss of John Cornyn there. But why on earth, if I'm in the number one targeted state in the nation, would I play some game of having to sing for my supper to win a primary only to have maybe$400 million spent against me in a general, in an environment that you already know historically is negative, so that math just didn't work for me. There's never a possibility that I would pursue that path. If he didn't want me, that's why I told him.

8:18Thom Tillis: And last year, I said, you need to find somebody else because I'm just not going to be involved. But let me ask you about that, because your state, we talked about South Carolina last time, they sent a Democrat to the Senate. Your state hasn't sent a Democrat to the Senate in what, 20 years? Uh, well, actually I beat an incumbent Democrat. Um, so my, my, my, this is the first time that a Republican's actually gotten, anyone's gotten reelected since Jesse Helms in this seat when I got reelected in 2020. But do you, so it was looking at the environment, right? Held this seat. Looking at the environment now, do you think that it would be any different for you?

8:53If, if the president is not on your side?

8:55Thom Tillis: I, uh, look what, what you need in North Carolina is not the, we need the president. And that's why I'm glad that the president's going out to these red states. I know a lot of people are criticizing him for that. We got to get the Trump MAGA base out. But in North Carolina and some of these other states, if every single Trump MAGA person comes out, it's not enough to win a general election. So we have to get the unaffiliated. So we have to get the people out that let me edge out Democrats to consecutive campaigns. That's what we've got to focus on. And one of the ways you do that, like Susan Collins, you let Susan Collins be Susan Collins.

9:31Thom Tillis: She is a fierce defender of the people of Maine. You let Dan Sullivan, you let John Husted do what they need to do to communicate with their voters and come back into a majority. I just played what you said about those taxpayer funded ads that the president was running. He now says his campaign arm basically is going to fund any more of those going forward. Should he reimburse the federal government though for the taxpayer dollars that were used? I think it would be a good look because you know what the story is going to be. Even though he's recognized that he can go ahead, he has the resources to do it through political funds, it will be the 10 million that didn't get reimbursed.

10:04Thom Tillis: Look, we are in the fight for our lives in keeping a majority in the U.S. Senate. I'm going to do everything I can to help anybody who wants my help. But there are going to be basis point margins probably in some of these states. We can't make a mistake. I think a goodwill gesture to pay that 10 million dollars back It eliminates the news story, and we can move on to other things about the positive things that Republicans have done in Congress. Let's focus on the positive. Let's not get our opposition a chance to take off 10, 15, 20 basis points. I mean, my races were under two percentage points both times after hundreds of millions of dollars were being spent.

10:44Thom Tillis: This is what our success in getting a majority back in the Senate means that we have to spot the landing from this point for the next 28 days to maintain that majority and give the candidates the freedom to do and say what they believe in their hearts and what their constituents want to hear. Even if that's breaking with the president? 100%. Look, all these candidates, including Susan Collins, vote for the vast majority of Trump's priorities. This fealty test thing is absurd. And the people who have worked in the administration, that if you're not 100%, you're not loyal, They need to go. That's a part of what I'm trying to communicate in the book.

11:23Thom Tillis: These folks have never run for and won elections. My colleagues have. They should be trusted to use the right judgment versus some unelected sycophant walking around the White House. If Democrats do take the majority in the Senate, which they might, I mean, who knows? We'll see if the polling bears out. Do you think the White House is prepared for a potentially Democrat controlled house and Democrat controlled Senate? We don't want to do that to the president. We don't want to do that to the Republican party. The house is most likely statistically speaking, it's hard to see how we come back with majority.

11:54Thom Tillis: We need to be real about that. And the reason why I don't want to code over something is I don't want people to stay home because they think that the Senate majority is lost. I want people to come out and try and get a majority back in the house. We have to have this as a bulkhead against just two years of inaction, nothing but endless attacks of this president and the administration of Republicans. Your book is pretty blunt. I've read a lot of politicians' books. Usually they save it for like the end. Yours kind of gets into it right away. I think I did it in the prologue. Well, actually, you don't get past the prologue where you say, President Trump has even thinner skin than I once thought he did.

12:38Seriously, what a snowflake.

12:40Thom Tillis: He does have thin skin. It's like, get over it, folks. I mean, We're public figures. We get criticized every single day. Welcome to the club. Get past it. Don't be distracted by it. That's exactly what people want. They want you to flake out over a comment. Get past it. Move on. Lead. I mean, he's been in public office for quite some time now. Yeah. Eight years. I mean, that's fairly young by political standards, right? Or actually six years as a politician, elected politician. And I don't think that he fully understands. It's like the Los Angeles, San Diego comment. I think President Trump is the sort of person who's comfortable sitting around having a discussion with folks at the turn.

13:21Thom Tillis: And he doesn't realize that every word that he mentions, it has weight. It has more weight than any other person in the United States. You've got to be really careful. Because sometimes he says things in jest that are treated as seriously. I think that was taken out of context. I hope he'll clean that up. Should he have clarified that, though? I mean, we gave him multiple opportunities to clarify. You know, the one thing about the American people, they're a forgiving people. And if you go to them and you tell them, yeah, I made a mistake, I learned from it, this is what I'm going to do differently, they give you another chance.

13:52Thom Tillis: But if you double down on bad ideas, then they don't give you a third chance. You called the president thin-skinned. What went through your mind when he gave out Senator Tom Cotton's personal phone number over the weekend because he won't vote to make daylight savings permanent? Well, number one, we're picking an issue where the country is almost evenly divided. Also the thing that I look at is I wonder how that issue polls in the battleground states that we need to win. That's immediately what I think about. And look, I mean, everybody, everybody may say, well, you know, it's an 80 % issue nationwide.

14:24Thom Tillis: I don't care about nationwide. What I care about is in the states that we must win to keep a majority. That's what I'm saying. The president needs to spot every landing for the next 28 days. We can't be spending time explaining a offhanded comment. We need to be spending time talking about tax cuts that made sense and that were made permanent. We need to talk about the economy that was on steroids when COVID hit us and thank God that we made that a priority in 2017. We need to talk about the fact that the border is effectively shut down after Biden left it open for four years and four million people.

15:02Thom Tillis: Let's talk about those successes. Pivot back to them. The one thing you learn in politics, you need to talk about your successes over and over and over again. Nothing new. The things that the American people are interested in. I think we're easily distracted by red herrings. That is not the way to spot the landings over the next 28 days. You write in your book, and I'm quoting you now, if my dad is listening, quote, if you want bullshit predictions, go ask Russ vote. That's the budget director of the president's. And this is what the president actually just said about him today in Baltimore, Maryland.

15:35Thom Tillis: Director of the Office of Management and Budget, Russ Vogt, who is fantastic. He's done a job. We have some big surprises coming up in another few weeks, right, Russ? He's going to be one of the very important people in the history of our country, in my opinion. He's got some great things happening. What do you hear in that when the president says there's some big surprises coming from Well, I think the big surprise is going to be when we don't have goodwill with the Democrats to try and get regular order appropriations done because OMB, people need, Susan Collins is an extraordinary chair of appropriations and she has a lot of trust with Democrats trying to get regular order appropriations done versus these CRs.

16:18Thom Tillis: But when, when OMB rescinds funding that were priorities to get Democrats on board, what credibility does that give Susan Collins to go in and say this compromise that we're making, we're going to hold to. These guys do not understand legislation. The last time this guy had a business job was when he was putting himself through law school. And now he's trying to act like he can run the business of government versus going to Susan Collins. Imagine as an appropriation, she's a much kinder, much more patient person than me. I'm going in, I'm negotiating these deals. I've got credibility with the Democrats.

16:54Thom Tillis: And then this person undercuts my credibility. How can I go back in and do another deal? He will be probably singularly responsible for CRs going into the year end. You're not very, or you're very unsparing. I should note against a lot of people in the president's cabinet. You say Pete Hegseth is the biggest regret of your career. You admit that you should have stopped RFK Jr. from becoming health secretary. You say Tulsi Gabbard won't be challenging anyone for president of her local Mensa chapter. You say Kristi Noem's a dog murderer and that Howard Lutnick, quote, is nuttier than squirrel shit.

17:27Thom Tillis: Mm-hmm. I stand by all that. What else you got? Is there anyone good that you think Trump has hired? Yeah. I mean, the majority of people in the cabinet, I support. That's the majority of his cabinet in his first year. No, it's not. These are the, these people. They've either left or been fired. These are right. And incidentally, this person had seven Democrats vote for. But the point is, we hired them. We made a decision to put them in there. I'm giving them their annual review. They didn't pass. You cycle them out, get somebody else, get somebody in there that can tell the president the truth, set the priorities right and get us reelected.

18:00Thom Tillis: That's all this is about. Look, I've been a Republican all my life, starting back in Tennessee. I'm going to be a Republican until the day I die. We've got problems right now that we need to fix because we've got, I was coming back, I was riding on a train today. I had a guy come up to me, he said, you know, Senator, he recognized me. He said, I've been a Republican for 56 years, but I don't think I can support y 'all this year. I like what you're saying, but I don't like what the party's for right now. I need that. I said, I hope you'll change your mind because you need to understand the Democrats win with that thought.

18:31Thom Tillis: It's not another Republican that wins. The Democrats win. And I have to believe that at the end of the day, you don't want that. We've got to have a discussion with the Republicans who are a bit frustrated now, knowing there are people like me that are going to go back and get us back focused on the main thing. The president. Yeah, he might like you, but you're leaving. But there are people that will follow behind me. The president is a populist president. He is going to do a good job of bringing out that base that's uniquely motivated by him. Traditional conservatives, traditional Republicans have to do their part to get the other folks out and say, guys, we're dealing with populism just like the Democrats did with Trump.

19:08Thom Tillis: I'm sorry, with Biden and with Obama. And we've got to get through it. But you don't abandon your party. You double down on fixing the problems that are making challenges. But do you think what Republicans have done in the last two years in Washington, from the White House to the Senate to the House, that voters should say, yeah, we want two more years of that? I think it's tough. You know, I think that we have to admit that the economy, because of the war and for other reasons, the economy we inherited from Biden, we promised we'd fix it. We haven't fixed it substantially. Own it. and say, but you know, if, if, if the president went to the American people and said, I know you are suffering energy prices right now, but let me tell you, I'm stopping a terrorist regime from having nuclear power capabilities that could bring democratic nations like the United States to their knees.

19:57Thom Tillis: I have to do this. I know it's painful, but I also know they represent an existential threat. If they develop nuclear capabilities and they can deliver it, Then the American people go, you know what? Maybe I do have to pay a couple of dollars more. But until it's explained that way and until we have a secretary of defense who will actually articulate a strategy and measure goals, it's very difficult to convey that message. Yeah, but also, I mean, the White House, the administration told Americans it would last four to six weeks. Here we are, seven going on eight months. Yeah. Oh, no, I frankly, I thought Epic Fury was a success.

20:33Thom Tillis: told the president that I appreciated the fact that he had the courage to go in there. But in April, at the latest, we should have been implementing the sanctions regime and the fiscal measures that now our treasury is taking forth. So there was a gap there. And I have to lay that at the feet of the Secretary of Defense. At some point, we needed to know what the beginning and end, middle and end was going to look like. And the reason why I, um, I had the issue with the War Powers Resolution is I'm sick of Pete Hegseth treating us like we're some sort of manufacturing line versus his board of director.

21:09Thom Tillis: This guy has made a request for one and a half trillion dollars without any details or any active engagement with the U.S. Congress and the Senate Armed Services Committee. That, that actually more than anything demonstrates his ineptitude as an executive, because any effective executive would go to his board and make sure they know every step of the way what they're doing. And so that's where he's failed. He, he is putting at risk funding that we desperately need to give to the department of defense, because I think there's a lot of people between what the OMB is doing and what Hexeth is doing that have no confidence in them.

21:42Is he, I mean, what you were referred to in your book is maggots, maggots?

21:46Thom Tillis: Maggots. Yeah. Is that, would you consider qualified Pete Hexeth as one of those? Oh, 100%. I mean, do you honestly define what that is for people who have not read your book like I have? MAGA. We all know what make America great again is. Then T.S., Trump sycophants. And you got people that, oh, that's a great idea, Mr. President. Or Mr. President, I got a great idea for you. You know what? When you tell the president he's got a great idea, when in your heart of hearts, you know it's not, then you're lying to the president. You're lying to the president. You're misleading him. We owe it to the president to give him the upward feedback as members of the U S Senate and as members of his cabinet to make his legacy better.

22:26Thom Tillis: And if they have a tough discussion, if he doesn't like it, then you ought to be able to go find a job somewhere else. But at least you can look in the mirror and be proud of how you served. You know, and there's a part in your book that alarmed me where you're talking about people who think that Trump can basically do whatever he wants. Maybe he should go for a third term, install himself as another president, which he would be late to his eighties. as you noted. You said, I don't know how seriously to take these people. Then again, I wasn't sure how seriously to take the psychos who stormed up the steps of the Capitol building on January 6th until they effing did it.

22:57So what do I know? Do you actually worry that something like that could happen come 2028?

23:02Thom Tillis: No, no. The president understands the constitution. I think he's toyed with people because he has fun with it. It's kind of like when I go down. Is it funny? Well, you know, it is for the people that all really believe that it's a thing or possible. It's kind of like why I go to Raleigh from time to time to fool people of the press into thinking I want to run for governor. I think that that's what he's doing. He understands the Constitution, the law, and he also knows that we would honor and respect that. Senator Tom Tillis, it is quite a book. It is quite a read. And as you noted, it starts at the prologue.

23:34The book is How to Lose Friends and Antagonize Presidents. Maybe President. Senator Tom Tillis, thank you for joining us. Up next here, the president is highlighting a new defense project in Maryland today. But the state's Democratic governor says he was actually blocked from speaking at the event he was invited to speak at. Governor Westmore will join me right after this.

24:15Thom Tillis: Our agents request emergency response. Plans starting around a dollar a day. Right now, get 70 % off your new system with professional monitoring at simplisafe.com slash Spotify. Outdoor deterrence plans start at$49.99 a month. Visit simplisafe.com slash licenses for alarm license information. When you spend enough time around great companies, you notice that the best ones treat trust as a growth strategy, not a box to check. Vanta helps companies build and prove trust from day one. Its agentic trust platform connects compliance, risk, and trust at enterprise scale. Vanta delivers a 526 % return on investment over three years and pays for itself in just three months.

24:53Learn why over 16 ,000 of the fastest growing companies use Vanta at Vanta.com.

25:01Thom Tillis: In a tremendous victory for our country and for the city of Baltimore, Anderil is investing$3.7 billion in a state-of-the-art shipyard that will be known forever as Arsenal 2. It's one of the most, one of the biggest and one of the most significant shipyards. You'll build the next generation of American submarines, including autonomous subs. That was President Trump today near Baltimore, where he was touting a major new multi-billion dollar investment in submarine manufacturing. One person who was notably not in attendance there today who did play a key role in bringing the defense tech company to his state was the state's Democratic governor, Wes Moore.

25:44That's because we're told the president actually blocked him from speaking at the event. It's not the first time we've seen these two leaders go back and forth. The president also, as you'll recall, barred Governor Moore from attending a governor's dinner at the White House last year. And my source tonight is Maryland Governor Wes Moore. And thank you, sir, for being here. How did you find out that you were no longer invited to speak on stage in your home state? Well, we found out late last night, and this was after a year of working on this deal, where we were working on this deal because we knew the type of impact that it was going to have, that Maryland was involved in a very competitive process, that after we were selected and were ecstatic about it and were being told about the run of show, We then also got word that the president of the United States was trying to block me from speaking at an event that our work was the work that actually had made the project happen.

26:41And so in the final day, the president decides to give a speech and take the credit, which is pretty par for the course where you don't do the work, but you get all the credit. That is the Trump way. The White House's version of this was, they said it's unfortunate that the governor is now making a multibillion dollar announcement about himself by throwing a tantrum over a federal initiative that will bring sorely needed jobs back to his state thanks to President Trump. What's your reaction to that statement? We are really proud of what has happened when it comes to economic growth and development in our state.

27:16The job growth rate in the state of Maryland has nearly doubled the national average over the past six months. We have added over 64 ,000 new businesses to the state of Maryland since I've been the governor, had over$17 billion of private investment that has happened in Maryland where we are both growing our economy but also diversifying it. And so I don't need the president's attaboy for the job that we are doing because I am not here because of the president of the United States. I'm here because of the six and a half million people who call the state of Maryland home, who I fight for and I work for every single day to make their lives a little better.

27:54When the White House says the president deserves credit for the jobs that will be coming to Maryland, what role would you say he played in the announcement today? Well, I think the partnership of the federal government is important in all this. But but I can't begin to try to understand the president's insecurities or I can't begin to try to understand why the president seems to have an issue being in the same room. But but what I do know is this is that while it's obvious that I spend a lot of time on the president's mind, the only thing that's that's on my mind is making sure that we can protect our people from these illegal tariffs and the rising prices that are coming from it, from these foreign wars that no one seems to have an answer for, and making sure that we can both push back but also push forward at the same time on behalf of the people of Maryland.

28:49Do you think the president's decision, not wanting you to speak on stage, has anything to do with the midterm elections that are coming up?

28:58Well, you know, I think that the president might have been, you know, might have been nervous about what I was going to say. But what I was going to say was just simply this. Congratulations, Maryland. You want a very competitive process that now is one of the largest individual investments, private investments that we have had in our state's history. Congratulations, Maryland. We now have a project that's going to bring over 3 ,100 direct jobs and indirectly support about 14 ,000 jobs. Congratulations, Maryland. We now have a project that's going to bring about the same amount of jobs as what we had during Bethlehem Steel.

29:35when they were in Baltimore. And so Maryland deserves the credit. Marylanders deserve the credit. This is a very big deal. And truthfully, while I'm very confident about how we're going to do in the midterm elections, today was not going to be about that. Today was going to be about the people of Maryland. In terms of how this deal will work, the president said today in his speech that American taxpayers will receive a 40 % stake in the new shipyard. Do you know how that will work? I have no idea how that is going to work. You know, I've heard a lot of numbers that have gotten thrown out from the president in recent days to include, you know,$5 ,000 that's going to be given if the Republicans win and money that's going to be given to seniors.

30:22So you would have to ask the White House about how exactly that is, about how an equity stake. So you have no idea what he's talking about? I know that what we have with Endural and the investment that's going to be taking place that Endural is making with us, but also the investment that Maryland is going to be making in workforce development and workforce pipelines for Endural. Endural is, you know, those are the partnerships that we can speak to. But but how the how the president is taking an equity stake in them is what I can't I can't respond to. Governor Westmore, thank you for your time tonight.

31:03Thank you so much. Ahead for us, candidates in Maine's Senate race just wrapped up their critical debate. Senator Susan Collins was confronted over her vote to confirm Brett Kavanaugh as the next Supreme Court justice. Is that a vote that could cost her in this race? We'll let you listen to what she said after this.

31:50We'll see you next time. One dollar per month trial at Shopify dot com slash special offer. It is exactly one month until the midterm elections. And tonight there was a critical debate underway in Maine where Republican Senator Susan Collins was facing off against her Democratic challenger, Troy Jackson, in a race that could determine control of the chamber. Here's just a taste of how that went tonight.

32:16Thom Tillis: Maine has the fourth highest electricity rates in the country. It has some of the highest housing costs in the entire country. Those are all due to Augusta's failed policies under the failed leadership of Troy Jackson. Senator Collins is like an arsonist who helped set the fire and and then she wants credit for bringing a cup of water to put it out. All of her Republican colleagues called her a team player. She stood with Donald Trump whenever he wanted that. 96 % of the time, she votes with him. And my political sources are here with me now. When we look at that debate, I mean, how did the two of you think it went tonight?

33:01Thom Tillis: I mean, I think it went well for Susan Collins. I mean, she pointed out this guy was the president of the Senate of Maine. A third of the legislation he attempted to pass couldn't even make it out of committee. To her point, if you can't even get your own Democratic colleagues to vote for you, how in the world are you going to deliver for Maine residents in a divided Senate? How is that possible? This guy has a track record that doesn't showcase one of success, but one of failures, as opposed to Susan Collins, who is independent, maybe don't like all of her policies. But she has a track record of working across the aisle, even when some folks on my side don't like it.

33:34Thom Tillis: And I think that's the type of political leader you want in Washington, whether you're a Republican or a Democrat. How did you hear that? Yeah, I hate to agree with Sharmackle on this, but I feel like there was a lack of preparation there. He had to know that some of these instances were going to be brought up. And at the end of the day, I think he got caught flat-footed. Those are going to be, that's probably the most memorable soundbite of the entire debate. And unfortunately for him, we all know how he got into this position to begin with. I expected a stronger showing. Also, I think that this one may not be as competitive as people initially thought it was.

34:08a lot of the shift in the ticket caused that problem. But also, I would argue that of the candidates who were then buying for that Democratic Senate spot, none of them were really showstoppers. So yeah, there was one moment, though, where I mentioned Brett Kavanaugh got brought up and Susan Collins's vote to confirm him, what that looks like for the makeup of the Supreme Court. And this is what was said during that part.

34:32Thom Tillis: Eight years ago today, Maine woman went to D.C. and begged Senator Collins not to confirm Brett Kavanaugh, but she did it anyways, even though they begged her. He helped overturn Roe v. Wade, and today she says she has no regrets. You said at the time that he said that he considered Roe v. Wade settled law. Do you feel at any level that Brett Kavanaugh lied to you on that day? I do not feel that he lied, but I think that he should not have said it was settled law because to me that meant that it would not be overturned. But to be fair, you cannot ask a nominee how he might vote on some hypothetical future case.

35:19Do you think voters understand an argument like that? I don't think voters are going to be necessarily moved by that argument. I think that at this point, affordability is folks' number one concern. And unfortunately, even with that argument, not only did Brett Kavanaugh say it, everybody who was on the Supreme Court at the time had said it as well. I remember all the memes going around of those who had been appointed by conservatives with their hands behind their backs and their fingers crossed. Everybody said the same thing. I think that procedurally she is 100 % correct. Does that make a difference to people whose lives are at stake, who are making one of the toughest decisions of their lives, women who are at risk, who are forced to terminate their pregnancies because of the bodily harm associated with continuing said pregnancies that are already in crisis?

36:03Absolutely not. However, again, I don't think that women's reproductive rights are the top level concern during this election cycle. Are people still concerned? Absolutely. But it's not the top one, two, three, four or five during this particular election.

36:16Thom Tillis: If this is the best that Troy that Troy Jackson has gotten in his toolbox and this guy should just pack it up and go home. I mean, he should pack it up and go home. To your point, Amisha, folks want to know about the cost of living. They want to know about affordability, interest rates for housing, houses. I think a buddy of mine was telling me today who works in real estate is now 7%. Most people our age can't afford that. Jobs, AI, student loan debt. There's so many things. You should be talking about that. And I can say this objectively. I think you would agree. And he's talking about an issue that we've already debated several years ago that, again, I know this is an issue you focus a lot on, Amisha.

36:51Thom Tillis: It is important, but it is not a top issue for most people out there. So if that's all he got, man, pack it up and go home. When you heard Tom Tillis tonight say that he does think that the president should reimburse the federal government for those taxpayer funded ads, they're not going to be making them anymore. There's about$10 million. He says he does because he thinks that otherwise it's just any issue that is something that can be used against Republicans in the next month. He thinks the White House should try to limit that. And he thinks that if they just funded them or paid them back, that it would take the story away.

37:22Do you agree with him?

37:24Thom Tillis: I mean, ethically, I agree. But I don't, again, I'm not certain how many voters out there are looking at this issue and saying this is going to determine whether I vote for a Republican or a Democrat. Well, he's saying if the margin is small, 0.2%, it could make a difference. I don't agree with that. When I look at the successes of Democrats since last year, it's been their hyper-focus on cost of living and an ineffectiveness, they would argue, from my side in addressing those concerns. I don't really see many of the candidates that are in some of these battleground states focusing on this small issue, as opposed to saying there are far more tangible things that will impact your day to day that Republicans are just aloof to because they refuse to set up the president.

38:06That's what I think most of the Trump promised Americans those tariff rebate checks are still waiting on those. I don't think that this this is necessarily an issue. Misha Cross, Michael Singleton. Great to have you both here tonight. Thank you for joining us. Up next, tomorrow marks three years since the October 7th Hamas terrorist attack. My global affairs source and former Biden insider Brett McCurk is going to join me as he reveals what happened behind the scenes at the White House in his new book.

38:46Thom Tillis: No hassle, no negotiation, no guy from an online listing lowballing you. Which means, by the time I'm done explaining this, you could have basically done it.

39:00Thom Tillis: Still haven't started? Hey, better late than never. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pickup fees may apply. When you spend enough time around great companies, you notice that the best ones treat trust as a growth strategy, not a box to check. Vanta helps companies build and prove trust from day one. Its agentic trust platform connects compliance, risk, and trust at enterprise scale. Vanta delivers a 526 % return on investment over three years and pays for itself in just three months. Learn why over 16 ,000 of the fastest-growing companies use Vanta at Vanta.com. Tomorrow marks three years since the deadly October 7th attacks where Hamas terrorists led a brutal assault on southern Israel that killed more than 1 ,000 Israelis and where they kidnapped more than 250 other people and took them into Gaza.

39:55But a new book goes inside the Biden administration's response amid fears of sparking an all-out regional war. In one tense phone call with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in April of 2024, President Biden warned that the United States could be forced to inshipments of American weapons to Israel. President Biden stating, Bibi, man, what the F are you doing? Adding, you think I'm Santa Claus? No Santa in Israel, pal. CNN's global affairs analyst Brett McGurk was inside the Oval Office for that call and led the U.S. efforts to free the hostages. His new book, Brink, Inside the Race to Free the October 7th Hostages, is out now.

40:35And Brett joins me. And congrats on the book. It's a really fascinating read inside of what was happening in these conversations. For that tense phone call between Biden and Netanyahu, I mean, how much of that kind of said what their relationship was like at the time? What was actually going on?

40:53Thom Tillis: By April of 2024, and the book chronicles the whole right up to that moment and then beyond, it was just, you know, the president was just frustrated. It was hostage talks that collapsed. I detail why that was. We had a terrible strike against a number of aid workers with Jose Andres World Central Kitchen. And we were also preparing for what looked like Iran was going to launch the largest, one of the largest ballistic missile and drone attacks in history against Israel. So we have to help defend Israel. Israel. And the president of that call was very direct, very colorful language, as you just quoted.

41:26Thom Tillis: But he also said, you know, look, Bibi, we're going to help defend you. And he deployed U.S. military forces to help defend Israel. And after we do that, we're getting back to this deal. And the book goes through that whole sequence. You're in the situation room as the missiles are coming. Tremendous uncertainty, because had those missiles gotten through and inflicted Israeli casualties, the Israelis were about to launch a massive of attack into Iran. We would have had an all-out war in the middle of, before we even got Gaza settled down. So that's just one of the moments in this book. You know, I'm just reflecting, Caitlin, tonight.

42:00Thom Tillis: It's October 6th, so three years ago right now, and the book talks about this. I came home, it was a Friday night, I put my daughter to bed, and I started to get calls in the Situation Room from the Israeli ambassador. There were rockets from Gaza, There's incursions from Gaza. And the Mike Herzog, Israel's ambassador, after midnight three years ago tonight, were at war. And it unfolded from there. And I kind of document how that came together, what we were seeing, what the Israelis were seeing, and then trying to respond to it. What's it like to think about that now as we are on the eve of the third anniversary?

42:40Because, I mean, everyone remembers that day, waking up to that horrific news. Now that you can see what has happened in hindsight, what is that like for you as someone who was in the room?

42:49Thom Tillis: I reflect on October 6th today, three years ago, I had a Saudi delegation in my office because we were working on a deal between Saudi Arabia and Israel for Saudi Arabia to recognize Israel with the Palestinian Authority encompassed into that deal. and I shook hands with Princess Rima, the Saudi ambassador that day, on we want to get that deal done by the end of the year and roll it out in the first quarter of 2024. Tony Blinken was on his way to the region. That's kind of where we were moving and I think that it would not have settled the Palestinian-Israeli issue by any stretch. What brought the weight of Saudi Arabia being able to engage with both parties, just a month before that the Saudi sent a senior official to Ramallah, to the West Bank, for the first time in 55 years.

43:36Thom Tillis: And that's what was happening before what unfolded just a few hours from now, three nights ago. So I think about where we were. The first chapter is promise. It talks about that. Then the second chapter is war, and it unfolds from there. Well, and it is fascinating to see that other side of what was being said to Netanyahu at the time by Biden, how U.S. officials were dealing with him. As we're coming up on these elections in Israel. I also wonder how you're looking at that and his leadership. Such an inflection point. I wrote a piece for CNN at the end of last year of kind of the key inflection points coming up in 2026, and this Israeli election is really one of them.

44:15Thom Tillis: I actually referenced it in the book, which I wrote, you know, so many months ago now. Look, Israel needs to pull together somehow a broader coalition unity type government. It has a very narrow government right now, the most right-wing government in history. There are members of that cabinet that are just so beyond the pale and to make any progress, any political progress almost futile. And then you have Hamas clinging to power in Gaza, which also, you know, sets a precondition. Any hope you want on this issue, whatever side you're on, Hamas cannot cling to power in Gaza. You have to have a new configuration in Gaza.

44:52Thom Tillis: There's a lot of work going on there and we have to have a broader coalition in Israel than this current narrow coalition government. I mean, I'm kind of old-fashioned, you know, George Washington set a precedent after eight years. You kind of walk away from the scene. I'm not going to tell Israelis how to vote, but I think a broader unity government is really what the country needs. Well, and also we've seen that frustration through, you know, with the Biden phone calls. I mean, that also has happened with President Trump when he's been on the phone with Netanyahu. If you want to see what it's like with Bibi Netanyahu, it's in this book.

45:27Thom Tillis: I'm sitting with face to face. I'm in the Oval Office when the president's on the phone with them, but also all the other actors on the field, the leaders of Iran. I'm in the room in Oman with the Iranians you're dealing with, all the leaders across the Middle East, they kind of, their characters in this book that come to life. And talking to the Trump administration, at the end of this, we work together, you know, me and Steve Wyckoff, two administrations coming together to actually get a ceasefire and to get hostages coming out before the inauguration. So that's kind of the final chapters here right in the book.

45:57Yeah, it's a fascinating read. Brett McGurg, thank you for joining us. Up next, it is time for Source Code. Tonight, the Source Code is 9. I'll be right back with the story.

46:14Tonight's Source Code is 9, as in Tropical Depression 9 that is now formed in the southwestern Gulf. And right now the storm system is expected to become a tropical storm before strengthening into a hurricane on Thursday. It would be the first one of this Atlantic season after El Nino gave us the first no hurricane September in decades. And as it heads towards the coast, the storm is expected to strengthen to a Category 2 and likely impact areas from southern Louisiana to the Florida Panhandle. We'll keep you updated on this storm as it strengthens. And for live updates and alerts, you can always download the CNN weather app.

46:50It's excellent. I use it every day. Thanks so much for joining us here tonight. CNN Newsnight starts now.

47:17Thom Tillis: 90 for six months or 180 for 12 month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. New customer offer for initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms. Observe. The North American dad. 50s. Great polo collection. He enters his vehicle information on Carvana. An offer appears in minutes. Remarkable. He squints, reads it again, smiles and says, dang, that's a good offer. The highest form of approval. No haggling. No hassle. No one called him boss. He's still on the couch. Astonishing. Sell your car today on Carvana.com. Pickup fees may apply.