Susie Wiles Out, Stephen Miller In, as Trump’s Chief of Staff

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0:33Well, the denial of what happened on Tuesday night seems to be wearing off. I'm Caitlin Collins and this is The Source.

0:55Well, if the American people spoke through their voices on Tuesday night with their votes, President Trump responded today by appointing one of his most hardline, loyal and controversial aides as the next White House chief of staff. The president announced that he was replacing Susie Wiles just before he left Washington today and headed for Florida. As a grinning, Stephen Miller followed him up the stairs of Marine One shortly after. With the exception of maybe Dan Scavino, there is almost no person in the West Wing that has been at the president's side for longer, dating back to his first presidential campaign in 2015, a history that President Trump referenced tonight.

1:37He's a great fighter. He's been with me right from the beginning, 2015. He was with me from before 2016, 2015. And he's very loyal, smart, does a great job. He's been an MVP every year. He's been just great. So we're very happy with him. The announcement that Susie Wiles was out and Stephen Miller was in stunned many people inside the West Wing this afternoon. It's hard to overstate really just how factionalized that environment has become in the last several days alone. Aides that I've spoken with have described a workplace that is filled with tension and infighting, likening it to the knives out days of the president's first term.

2:18Now, many people believe that Susie Wiles' departure will only accelerate the shift in the balance of power in the president's inner circle that is underway right now. The president has just elevated the architect of his administration's belligerent immigration enforcement campaign just days after Seedon's voter polls found that 58 percent of voters thought those actions had gone too far. Stephen Miller was the aide, of course, who instantly defended the federal agents in the fatal shooting of Alex Preddy in Minneapolis. even calling the U.S. citizen a would-be assassin, something that turned out to not even be close to being true.

2:55My sources tonight say that the president's anger was growing in the last few days as he consumed news coverage of Republicans' historic losses, and Wiles was one of the people he blamed for it. Now, her departure comes less than a month after the president told my colleague Kristen Holmes this. Mr. President, Mr. President, are you considering replacing Suzy Wiles? Are you considering replacing Suzy Wiles? And what if Republicans lose the midterm? It was a fake story. Let me just tell you. The Suzy Wiles story was a fake story. She's been incredible. We've had maybe the most successful first two years, and it's not even two years, in the history of the presidency.

3:35She's been my chief of staff. She's smart. She's tough. Susie is here and she's gonna be here for a long time. Zero chance turned out to be not accurate. We know that several of the president's allies had urged him to start making changes after the midterm losses on Tuesday, arguing that there needed to be a different approach coming out of the West Wing. Now, as for what that approach may look like going forward with Stephen Miller as the chief of staff, compare what the president said just tonight about potentially working with Democrats on Capitol Hill with what Stephen Miller has said about that party that come January is going to hold pretty big majorities in both chambers of Congress.

4:16I think we could do a lot of things together, actually. You know, a lot of them are about common sense also, and I think you'll see that. The Democrat Party is not a political party. It is a domestic extremist organization. Now, Stephen Miller's attacks are not just limited to Democrats. He has a history of going after federal judges, including conservatives on the Supreme Court. Let's just call it like it is. Justice Roberts and Justice Barrett decided to cave to the radical left. When a judge assumes for him or herself the powers that have been relegated or delegated by the Constitution to the president, that that is a form of a legal insurrection.

5:00And we have seen... Insurrection carries legal weight, so are you recommending... No, we have seen over the last nine months a ongoing legal insurrection. Stephen Miller is now being promoted. Susie Wiles is being ousted. And also right now inside the Trump administration, the defense secretary is currently staring down the very real prospect of being impeached, something that hasn't happened since 1876 when the position was actually called the secretary of war. Now, this scrutiny on Hegseth is only highlighting just how fractured his relationship with Susie Wiles had become. I'm told that for months, Susie Wiles had raised concerns about Pete Hegseth's leadership inside the Pentagon and his role in President Trump's cabinet.

5:47And it certainly didn't go unnoticed today when Hegseth was one of the first senior aides to celebrate Stephen Miller's ascension to chief of staff. Now, as for how the new chief of staff sees America's role on the world stage, This was his take in January. We live in a world in which you can talk all you want about international niceties and everything else, but we live in a world, in the real world, Jake, that is governed by strength, that is governed by force, that is governed by power. These are the iron laws of the world that have existed since the beginning of time. As for what he wants the next two years, the final two years of the Trump administration to look like, Stephen Miller wrote this tonight, said, quote, the mission now is more clear than ever.

6:38Fight with all of our soul to support our president and defend this magnificent republic. My first source tonight is Maggie Haberman, the White House correspondent for The New York Times and the co-author of Regime Change Inside the Imperial Presidency of Donald Trump. And Maggie, what are you hearing from sources about what drove this decision by the president to replace Susie Wiles with Stephen Miller? Before I get to that, I just want to remind people that when the president says he's not going to fire someone, it doesn't usually mean much. And often, in fact, means they're going to be fired pretty soon.

7:10So this has been brewing for some time. This was not a surprise. My colleagues and I reported earlier today. This is not just in recent days. The president has been incredibly critical of Suzy Wiles behind the scenes, to her face, to other people, over the course of the last, I would say, at least six months, if not longer. There have been a bunch of people inside the administration undermining her as well. Now, Stephen Miller is actually not somebody who I'm referring to in that category. I think that Miller's allies made clear that he was fine with Wiles if she stayed on as chief of staff, but they thought that he should get it if she left.

7:42But there were a number of people who had been raising questions about her with the president. And yes, the president berated her in front of other people on election night in the East Room, blamed her for the losses. He had also been very critical in other circumstances of James Blair, her close associate. When you have a wave, Caitlin, that sweeps seats from Mississippi to Maine, that's not really a tactical campaign decision. And this is a White House where the policy is largely set by the president. He does not want to be reined in. He wants decisions to be made by a small number of people.

8:15And he's been berating her for months about not finding the quote-unquote leak related to his travel to Turkey during the NATO summit over the summer. When he was put in the refrigerator truck. When he was put in the refrigerator truck and they told everybody that he was actually on a plane that press and a number of his own cabinet members were on. Including Stephen Miller, by the way. Yeah, well, he was aware of the situation at minimum, or at least I should say. But separately, he has been very angry that there have not been further prosecutions against people he perceives as his political enemies.

8:45And he's been complaining about that for months. So I think this is an aggregate number of events. This puts a very controversial and very polarizing figure now as chief of staff. And it is coming at a time when Democrats are a little different than the Congress that came in in January of 2019 when those Democrats got elected. These folks have been much more focused on an economic populist message about this president. And I'm not sure what this looks like going forward. Well, and I should also note that you and your colleagues were on the verge of reporting about Trump talking about replacing Wiles when the president posted on Truth Social today.

9:21The president had called a number of people and said that he was planning to replace her. He had asked people specifically what they thought about Stephen Miller and to a lesser extent, Jay Clayton. But it was very clear that Miller was in the lead position for a number of reasons. And yes, after Tyler Pager and Jonathan Swan and I reached out for comment, the president shortly put this out after a meeting with Susie Wiles. I feel like Stephen Miller was always on the short list for chief of staff. No one is surprised by that. But I actually did hear a lot of surprise today that he actually pulled the trigger and went with Stephen Miller.

9:52Just given, of course, the role he's played, you know, what he's done inside the Trump administration. obviously is it's very loyal to the president. But what do we think two years of Stephen Miller as the chief of staff looks like potentially? So it's interesting. It reminds me a lot of any time that the president has faced some kind of a loss or some kind of an embarrassment. Let's from the Access Hollywood tape, right? Where his response was to bring Bill Clinton's accusers to the debate in St. Louis in the 2016 campaign to after he lost the November 2020 election to maintain that actually he had won it and do everything that he could, instead of seeing what voters said as a rebuke of this president and his administration, which it absolutely is.

10:36And the Iran war is obviously front and center and a lot of it, but it is certainly not all of it. It is a number of events, one of which is the immigration crackdowns. And so what it tells me is that President Trump has one move and it is always more MAGA or more Trump. And this is what you're seeing. Do we know how Stephen Miller lately, what his view of the Iran war is? We have heard mixed things. I mean, I think that what you saw very clearly wasn't just Pete Hegseth standing by Stephen Miller. Behind the scenes, our understanding is that Stephen Miller and Pete Hegseth have been allies for quite some time.

11:09Actually, Jonathan and I wrote about that in Regime Change. Stephen Miller was key in putting together this cabinet. And a number of cabinet officials came into the job. And we were told this by a number of people during our reporting, understanding that Stephen Miller was somebody who they really needed to eagerly work with or be concerned about crossing. That goes for Hegseth, that goes for Todd Blanche, that goes for Marco Rubio. And you saw them walking together to Marine One, Marco Rubio and Stephen Miller. I think this might buy Pete Hegseth some time. Pete Hegseth, however, had been known inside the West Wing as the biggest champion, to the extent there was one, of the war early on, when most of Trump's advisers were against it.

11:47And he's going to get impeached, potentially, as soon as next week. And there is the question of, even if he doesn't, there is the question of passing the defense spending bill. And so the question becomes exactly how you do that while insisting. The Pentagon is not a well-funded agency. There is one well-funded agency in this government, and it's the Department of Homeland Security, which Stephen also has a lot of involvement with. But this might buy Hegseth time. We'll see. You described the president the other day as being in a processing state. One thing that is clear from this move today is his what seemed like denial of what happened on Tuesday is wearing off and that he is coming to terms with what has happened and is increasingly unhappy about it.

12:27Remember after the November election for the first day and a half, he appeared almost in shock and was saying sort of muted conciliatory things to people around him, like we did our best, you know, we really tried. It took a little while, not tons of time, but it took a few days for him to get to the point of actually, you know, do not declare Joe Biden the winner and let's fight for it. I think you are seeing something similar like that here. In terms of, by the way, I didn't answer your question, on what Stephen Miller's view of the war is, you know, we don't quite know exactly what he will do.

12:57What we have been told by multiple, multiple people in the administration is that Miller has been privately clear that he knows that the Iran war has been viewed very, very negatively by the president's base voters. Yeah. And so in terms of where the president is on this, I mean, he's also raising the question that other people are on the chopping block. It's not just Susie Wiles here. And defended Pete Hegseth again, which, again, doesn't mean much. But I do think he likes Hegseth personally. I don't think the president wants to get rid of Hegseth. Who else it could be? There are any number of people.

13:27There are not a number of agencies that he actually really cares about. I do expect other changes. Well, he cares about two jobs, chief of staff and the press secretary. One of those is unfilled still. In terms that you were nodding your head along when I was talking about how it is so Trump one like inside the West Wing right now. I mean, you really can't overstate the factionalization, the fighting of people who are jockeying for power or unsure where their power kind of lies in this moment. It has been said for days, months, weeks. I don't know. They're all one big day at this point. But it's been, most of this year has been people describing sort of the reverting to the mean of the infighting of what had really been, it had always been below the surface in this particular version of the Trump administration.

14:14But they were all kind of unified in wanting to see him succeed. Or there were a number of people who were very loyal to Susie Wiles in the West Wing. And so all of that created a very different scenario for the first year. As we got into this year, and as the president got more and more frustrated, and as he didn't want to be told no, he wanted people who were going to help him get to a yes, you started seeing more jockeying for power. I will say of Stephen Miller, it's not a binary, by the way, in terms of sort of the Wiles faction versus the Miller faction. Miller is very good at cultivating relationships inside the administration, very.

14:46He was very close with Steve Bannon at one point in term one, but he was also very close with Jared Novanka. in term one and remained that way. And so I think that it's not quite where these lines, clear where these lines play out, but it is ugly and a lot of it in other areas right now in terms of the fighting, and it's spilling out onto social media in a big way. Yeah, I mean, the statements alone are saying so much. Jared Kushner did praise Stephen Miller and Susie Wiles. So did the whole cabinet in a statement that the White House put out. Maggie Haberman, it is always great to have your reporting.

15:17Thank you for joining us here on such a busy night. As she mentioned, she reports on Stephen Miller's relationships and her new book with Jonathan Swan, Regime Change. We also have more White House insiders with us now, including Bloomberg's Jeff Mason, Semaphore's Shelby Talcott, as well as the former White House deputy press secretary during the first Trump term, Sarah Matthews. And Sarah, just to get your take on what this is like inside the West Wing right now. I mean, we talked about it feeling like Trump won in there. What was that like in terms of the power and the infighting and what that looked like?

15:50Yeah, I couldn't help but laugh to think that now this is playing out as if it's Trump 1.0 all over again. Because when I was there, it was chaos. I mean, it felt like there were maybe a handful of people I could trust. And even then, you still didn't really trust anyone because you felt like at any given moment, someone would knife you to try to make themselves look better. And there were always competing factions happening within the White House. And for at least myself, when I was there, I was there at the very end of Trump's first term. And it felt like we were competing, the press team, me and Kelly McEnany, against Jared and Ivanka, who were also competing against Mark Meadows, who were also competing against the vice president's team.

16:30So it always felt like this chaotic nature because we're all supposed to be on the same team. But then people are looking out for their own self-interest. And in Trump 2.0, they've prided themselves in this idea that there's been no leaking and that they're all this one unified front. And now we're kind of seeing the wheels come off. Yeah. And a lot of those people are Susie Wiles loyalists as well. Jeff Mason, you know, when this came down, obviously it was right before the president was about to leave from the White House. He talked to you about why he changed the chief of staff. And I wonder what stood out to you.

17:06He only took a handful of questions, which is also pretty unlike him. Yes, it was raining, as we can attest to. But what did you make of what he said to you about this? I thought it was interesting that he said, just number one, very plainly, I was ready for a change. Given that he had given that strong, strong defense of Suzy Wiles only a few weeks ago. Also, the fact that Susie Wiles, somewhat to Sarah's point, is largely responsible for the fact that this second term has not been as chaotic of a White House as it was during his first term. And also important to mention, she's essentially the architect of his campaign for reelection.

17:47And the reason that that disciplined campaign led to his coming back into power at all. So it's a pretty big break to be jettisoning this chief of staff and then to be replacing her, as you've already discussed, with someone who absolutely appeals to some instincts within President Trump that I think many Republicans would be happy for him and certainly Democrats would be happy for him not to emphasize in these next two years as they're also keeping an eye on 2028 and as Democrats have an eye on 2028. Shelby, I mentioned the president talked to 60 Minutes. They asked him, this was before he announced that Stephen Miller was taking over.

18:29They asked him if staffing changes were on the way. And this is what he said. In a previous lifetime, you were rather famous for saying you're fired quite often. After a big midterm defeat like this, do you expect to fire anyone from your team? Yeah, a little bit. A little bit? I love my cabinet. I think they're good. But I'll be doing maybe a few changes. I don't want to mention who because I think well, I will say that we saw Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth in the hall He was meeting with you just before now his name has come up a few times as someone people have called for his resignation Do you have confidence in him?

19:04I do look We've won two wars We've won Venezuela and taken out Billions and billions and billions of dollars already and we will be taking out many billions of dollars and get along very well and You could call it a territory. You could call it whatever you want. We won that war in less than one hour. And you credit. And nobody was killed. You credit Pete Hegseth. No, but he was a part of it. What if what did that say to you, Shelby, just based on what you're also hearing? Well, one of the big things I'm hearing, particularly when it comes to Pete Hegseth, is the argument that if the president does push him out, it is essentially an admission that the Iran war has not gone the way he has wanted it to go.

19:53And so that's basically the biggest argument I'm hearing as to why Pete Hegseth might stay in addition to the president just simply personally liking him. But as for his other comments about considering more staffing changes, it doesn't surprise me. I mean, weeks ago, one of the big topics of conversation inside the administration before the midterms was the question of if the midterms go badly, who's the president going to change And how is this going? How is this personnel change going to look like? And you're seeing it already with Susie Wiles. And it wouldn't surprise me if Susie Wiles is not the last person for the president to decide, you know what, we need somebody new in X, Y and Z positions.

20:32Sarah, one thing that people have pointed out today is that it feels like everyone who gets fired and pushed out of the Trump administration is a woman. And I wonder what you if that's a trend you've noticed or what you make of that. Yeah, I mean, if you just look at the people that have been pushed out the door, Kristi Noem, Pam Bondi, Tulsi Gabbard, I could keep going. And it's all women. And so I think that Trump, it just shows that he has a much smaller, lower tolerance for women and tends to point the finger at them and blame them for when things go wrong. But he doesn't hold men to that same standard.

21:07And I think with someone like Pete Hegseth, there are plenty of reasons why Trump could have fired him. You think back to Signalgate and him texting war plans, or I think about his alleged these bombings of alleged drug boats that I believe are illegal and probably deserve impeachment. And so it's things like that where there's already been controversies with Hegseth. And now we're dealing with the botched handling of this war. And if Trump wanted to offer voters a head on a silver platter, Pete Hegseth would be a great fall guy because voters are clearly not happy that Trump went back on his promise to not get us into another war in the Middle East.

21:43But it seems like right now he's sticking with him because I think that he's going to dig his heels in because that's what Trump does. And he doesn't want to admit that the war was a mistake and firing Hegseth would be kind of admitting that. Sarah Matthews, Shelby Talcott, Jeff Mason, thank you all for being here tonight. Maggie Heberman as well. Up next, the newly empowered House Democrats are not happy with the White House shakeup. One of them is comparing Stephen Miller to a, quote, malignant tumor. The Defense Secretary, Pete Hexath, I've mentioned, meanwhile, is staring down that impeachment vote.

22:14Here's more of what we're hearing on where his future lies right after this.

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24:16Tonight, the top Democratic leaders in Washington are criticizing President Trump's new incoming White House chief of staff, who starts on Monday with House Minority Leader and the likely next House Speaker, Hakeem Jeffries, calling Stephen Miller a, quote, dangerous xenophobe and reckless extremist who has American blood on his hands. Jeffries said that Stephen Miller's, quote, presence in our government should be eradicated like a malignant tumor. Senator Chuck Schumer says he thinks the president has learned, quote, nothing from Tuesday's elections and added, Stephen Miller is the architect of the most barbaric, inhumane policies of this administration.

24:54Trump couldn't have made a worse choice. Our Democratic majorities will fight him every step of the way. Joining me tonight are my political sources. Amisha Cross is the former Obama campaign advisor. And Mark Short is the former chief of staff to Vice President Mike Pence. And Mark, given that role that you had in the first term, you obviously worked with Stephen Miller. What do you make of him becoming the next chief of staff? What's he going to to what's that going to look like? Well, Caitlin, I remember when Mike Pence was chosen to be on the ticket in 2016. And we had our first trip to Trump Tower to kind of visit the campaign apparatus.

25:32And even though I knew it was pretty smart and I expected to see a pretty busy, bustling place. And we walk in and there were two people. It was Stephen Miller and Hope Hicks. And Stephen has been with the president since 2015. As you know, he was press secretary for Jeff Sessions, who was the only senator who supported Donald Trump in the primary. And so Stephen's been there as one of the most loyal people. I think for the president tonight, in a way, what he's done is that for three days, we've been talking about what a debacle Tuesday was. And instead, now he's already in a fight with Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer, which is probably exactly the foil he wanted.

26:06And so I think it portends probably two more years of acrimony between the executive and legislative branch. But in some ways, I think for the president, that's better than talking about how miserable the Tuesday elections were and what it was as indictment on the last couple of years of this administration. Yeah, Amisha does, you know, raise questions about if anyone thought that it was going to be this amicable relationship with Trump and Democrats over the next two years, I think the choice of Stephen Miller as chief of staff signals that's not true. And Robert Garcia, who is going to head the House Oversight Committee when Democrats take over, said that Miller should, quote, lawyer up.

26:44What do you think that's going to look like? Well, I think that if anybody thought there was going to be an amicable situation between President Trump and the Democrats, no matter how big their majority became, those people were likely to be insane. This is a president who was willing to set the Constitution on fire. This is a president who does not care about the results of the election because he honestly doesn't care about the future of the Republican Party. He knows that he is a lame duck. He also knows that there are going to be certain things are extremely hard to get across aisle with majorities in both bodies.

27:13He also knows that the gains that he made just a couple of years ago have all but been eradicated because of the policies that he's pushed forward, be it whether it's tariffs, the results of the Big Beautiful Bill Act, you name it. It has been destructive. The Iran war at this point, he has shown that he is incalcitrant. He has shown that he is willing to dig his heels in and getting rid of Susie Wiles and choosing somebody who's a xenophobe, who's a racist, who is everything that, you know, many of us, particularly people of color, particularly women who have heard things and seen the way that Stephen Miller responds and acts in the most detestable ways.

27:47We know that he is making a carve out right now that is only going to hurt the progress that was made just a few nights ago. He is seething that black women want up and down the ticket, particularly in places like Georgia. He is seething that somebody like Abdul El-Sayed is there in Michigan. This is something that is so destructive to the ethos and the ideology that that man lives on. And I think that this just showcases how indebted Trump happens to be to that side, that very deep and dark side of a certain wing of his party. And he does not care that America has chosen another step forward.

28:20You know, Mark, in terms of what this looks like going forward, Susie Wiles was someone who was credited for a lot of the organization that there was inside the president's orbit. You know very well how these power structures work. And Pete Hegseth is praising Stephen Miller's ascension. He said patriots in control. He posted an image of them together with the words stand, fight, defend the republic. Look, you know, there's background to that, which is our reporting that Pete Hegseth was not on good terms with Susie Wiles. She didn't think really that he was doing a great job at the Pentagon and maybe is hoping that this will help his job security.

28:58What do you make of that? Look, I take it at face. I think that's probably right. Stephen will probably protect Pete in the short term. But look, I think that the president has gone through many chiefs of staff. Obviously, the first administration went through four in four years. So Susie outlasted many. But the reality is he's he's often his own chief of staff. Like there's somebody with the title, but he's pretty hands on in what he wants and how he wants to manage the White House. And so so part of this is giving somebody the title. But the question really is whether or not the president isn't still acting kind of as his own chief.

29:35Amisha, what do you think Democrats should do about this in terms of we've got the Hegseth impeachment potentially as soon as next week that's being introduced by a Republican, to be clear. But in terms of how they handle this new balance of what this is going to look like between accountability for the Trump administration that they want, but also affordability and a big issue that they ran on, what does that look like? I think it was very clear from the election results what the American voters wanted to see. And the thing that is at the top line item for their for their ticket and the choices they made was affordability.

30:09So Democrats are going to have to work to ensure that they do have plans to lower prices and that every time that Trump tries to to veto those those plans and those bills, every time that he does things from the seat of the White House that only increases those bills, that Democrats message the hell out of it across the country in red states and blue states and purple states. I also think that Democrats have to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. You can hold this president accountable as well as those who have helped him to basically shirk the Constitution in addition to steal from us and lower prices.

30:42And they think that they have a tall order, but it's enough of them that have just one to be able to get that done. Amisha Cross, Mark Short, thank you both for being here tonight. Thanks, Kaylin. Up next, when it comes to those Republican losses on Tuesday night, we'll talk about the Republicans who do not want to blame the president for their catastrophic losses, but they do want a scapegoat. The president's message has been to look somewhere else. And tonight, the former Republican governor of Maryland, Larry Hogan, is going to join me.

31:17Tonight, the aftermath of Tuesday's electoral wipeout has left the Republican Party in a bit of a blame game. As President Trump is pointing the finger at the Republican candidates, several of the ones that he hand-selected, or is telling midterm voters they only have themselves to blame for what happened in the stock market thereafter, or replacing his chief of staff, Susie Wiles, as it did tonight. This is the person that Congressman James Comer, one of the most powerful Republicans on Capitol Hill until the new Congress has sworn in, blamed today. We made a lot of mistakes that I felt like we were making all along the way.

31:55But because of various factors, you know, the leadership at the time decided this was the way forward. I think that was with a lot of input from the White House. We've got to do better. I can tell you with a high level of confidence that there's a lot of questions about headsets. We have no idea what the strategy is moving forward in Iran. No one's happy about Iran. And I think the Republican voters are more upset about what's going on in Iran than the Democrat voters. My source tonight is the former Republican governor of Maryland, Larry Hogan. Do you think that's true, that Republican voters are more upset about the war than even Democrats are?

32:38Well, I think an awful lot of them were upset, but I'm not sure that was even the top issue for most voters. You know, this was a there were a lot of things behind this, but it was really a total repudiation of the Trump administration. and people were just completely fed up and they felt as if, you know, the Republicans were not focused on the issues that they cared about. I think affordability, the cost of, you know, everyday goods, the cost of gasoline and diesel, the cost of groceries was at the top of the list, but the war was upsetting both Republicans and Democrats. No question about that.

33:12Look, this was the biggest rebuke of the Republican Party since Watergate. And it was, you know, I'm a guy that's been sounding the alarm bells for quite a while. But this was even bigger than I was projecting. And it was a strong, loud and clear message that the American people sent. What do you think is the number one lesson that your party needs to learn coming out of Tuesday night? Well, I think, well, I just think almost everything was wrong, but the messaging was wrong. And I think that the party was primarily, the president and the administration was really focused on doubling down on the base.

33:50And that's not what this election was about. I mean, the Republican voters were not as motivated as Democrats, number one. It really was about the swing voters that, you know, I think they were ignoring and they were constantly shrinking the base to a smaller and smaller group of people. And they weren't, they didn't have a message that appealed to the exhausted majority of Americans who spoke out loud and clear, including independents who are now 45 percent of the country and who you know the president tanked with by 30 points and I think lost two to one. Does making Stephen Miller the new chief of staff signal to you that the president has those same takeaways from Tuesday night?

34:31You know I think he probably is not listening quite as much as I would like him to. Look if if they send a loud and clear message that maybe you've gone too far, the answer is not to double down and go farther. The answer is maybe to listen and try a new strategy. And I think the message, look, the Democrats, I want to give, you know, they deserve credit. They ran a great campaign. It was a big night for them. And they had good, better messaging. And, you know, they worked hard. They put up some pretty decent candidates. But this wasn't just voters, you know, thrilled with the Democrats and their message.

35:10It was really just they completely fed up with the people in charge in Washington and the Republicans were in charge. But I think they're frustrated with the divisiveness and dysfunction. And I think the lesson that both parties need to learn from the from the big message that night is that, hey, we want you guys to focus on making things more affordable and we want you to focus on the issues that we care about. They're obviously they're mad as heck at everybody in Washington. James Comer says he doesn't know what the strategy and the war in Iran is, do you think that the president needs to end the war, given what it's done to gas prices here in the U.S.?

35:49Well, I think gas prices was a huge part of it. And people, it's also a part of not delivering on what you say you're going to do, which voters don't like much either. So when President Trump was elected, it was about, I'm going to make things more affordable and I'm going to get us out of all these wars. And that's not exactly what we delivered on. So it's, you know, I don't know what the, it's a very difficult strategy at this point to how do we get this thing done and get out of there, but tremendous mistakes being made. And, you know, this is not what people want to see. The president replaced his chief of staff, told voters last night they only had themselves to blame.

36:28And he also blamed the candidates themselves. People like Ken Paxton, Darlene Graham, others that obviously weren't able to pull it off in places that Republicans normally don't have to break a sweat on Tuesday night. Do you think the president... Well, back when... But he hasn't blamed himself at all. Do you think he bears responsibility for what's happened to your party this week? Of course he does. It's a complete and total rebuke of President Trump and his policies. There's no one else. He said to vote as if I'm on the ballot. And that's exactly what they did. He who else are we going to blame?

37:06He's the one they were voting against. Look, I think our party has to you know, I've been saying for a long time, we have to go in a different direction. We have to have a more hopeful, positive message that appeals to to more people. You don't get to govern if you can't get to 50 plus one. And you don't do that by, you know, continuing to just focus on firing up the base and you don't talk about the issues. that the exhausted majority of Americans are concerned about. And that's, you know, the president's final closing message was about the algae in the reflecting pool and the monuments. I mean, that's not what people wanted to hear.

37:38And those candidates that you're referring to, back when President Trump defeated in primaries all the people that maybe could have won some elections, like John Cornyn in Texas and others, you know, everybody was saying, wow, the president won all the primaries. And I said, well, did he really win anything? Because they're likely to all lose in November. And that's exactly what happened. We did not nominate the most electable people in a lot of places. Yeah. I mean, Ken Paxton lost by more than a million votes in Texas, which is quite a feat in and of itself. You know, one thing that has raised questions for your party is what does it mean for 2028?

38:19What do you think it means for 2028? Well, I look, if we don't learn the message from this election, if we don't listen to the very clear message from the voters, it means we're not going to have much of a chance for 2028. If we can take this as a, we finally hit rock bottom, we've got to go in a different direction and we find the right candidate to get behind that is that is moving in a different direction, a wave. Donald Trump's not on the ballot, but a lot of people that are associated with him are going to have a tough time making the argument that continuing to do more and more of the same is going to get us back to the White House.

39:00The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. But Democrats have to be careful, too. They won a big night. They control everything in Washington now, and now they have the responsibility to deliver on the things they promised. If it's just a lot of divisiveness and dysfunction and all we do is continue the yelling and screaming back and forth and continue just nothing but impeachments and investigations and they don't focus on making life more affordable, then the voters are going to be ready to throw out whoever's in Washington. Good point.

39:33Former Maryland Governor Larry Hogan, thank you for taking the time to join us tonight. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Caitlin. And it is not an understatement to say it's been a very historic week in Washington. You are not going to want to miss our behind the scenes right after this.

40:01And here's a look behind the scenes of a very historic week in Washington. If the people that voted for me, if they go out and vote just a good portion of them, we will win in a landslide.

40:30Because of what might happen here on Tuesday night, Trump administration officials are lawyering up in anticipation of Democrats retaking control of Congress potentially. That's because Democrats are vowing to investigate several aspects of the Trump presidency. For some reason, the sitting president doesn't win the midterms, but we gave this a very strong shot.

40:58President Trump makes his closing pitch ahead of the 2026 midterms, but instead of reflecting what's on voters' mind, he's spent more time focused on the reflecting pool. You're a politician. What did you make of the president's closing message to voters today? He sounded a little defeated in that bit about taking a shot. With Americans struggling with the continued rise of inflation, standing in front of the reflecting pool that I would say 99.999 % of Americans don't ever think about on a daily basis was absolutely the wrong message to send to Americans asking them to go vote for Republicans tomorrow.

41:53CNN projects the Democrats will win control of the House of Representatives. Life has just fundamentally changed for everyone inside the White House because of the Democrats retaking control. CNN can project Democrats will win control of the U.S. Senate. Voters don't like the president's tariffs, they don't like the war in Iran, and they don't like paying more for gas. Right now, the president's response to this tonight, he's blaming the Republican candidates themselves here, even Greg Abbott of Texas.

42:28I'll get along probably with the Democrats unless they want to be destructive. If I were in the ballot, we would have won. Two minutes back. Four, three. The president was in what is described by those who know him best as his happy place today. He came out in front of reporters and the cameras and signed a beam that is going to go in his future ballroom in the face of that historic midterm defeat for his party.

42:59We were watching all these key races. South Carolina was one of the most stunning last night. I'm joined now by the Democrat who won that race. I stayed really focused on the issues that I was hearing about from voters. Affordability, the high gas prices, grocery prices, and also our broken healthcare system. And people are tired of a broken political system in Washington, D.C. And they voted for change last night.

43:32The president told ABC News in a phone call he's been fielding phone calls with angry Republicans looking to blame Tuesday's embarrassment on Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. Sources say an impeachment vote against Hegseth could come as soon as next week. Caitlin, what are your sources saying about the path ahead for the White House? Well, I mean, specifically for Pete Hegseth, Jake, it's still an open question. It is something they're talking about because they're worried it might actually have enough votes to pass. If Secretary Hegseth is impeached next week, how would you vote on that in the Senate?

43:59There are people who I respect who feel that he's done a very poor job. And if he's the one that gave the president the guidance that we could be out of the Iranian war in five weeks, that was an incredible misjudgment. Louisiana Senator Bill Cassidy, I'm not going to bring up the LSU-Bama game this weekend. We'll just wait and see what happens after kickoff. Are you a Bama fan? Yeah, I went to Bama. That's OK. I'm sure your parents forgive you.

44:28President Trump just announced his first staffing change after that Republican wipeout in the 2026 midterms, and it's a big one. Stephen Miller will be the new chief of staff, and Susie's going to go over to the political operation. I wanted to make a change. You've got to make moves. Sometimes in life you have to make moves. Mr. President, Mr. President, why Stephen Miller? Why Stephen Miller, Mr. President? Do you bear any blame for the Republican losses, Mr. President? Up next, it is time for Source Code. Tonight, it is 72 ,702. I'll be right back with the story.

45:17Tonight's source code is 72 ,702. That's because that's how many Tesla Cybertrucks are estimated to have been sold since it first debuted in 2024. It's also just a fraction of how many Tesla CEO Elon Musk had envisioned selling after he previously told shareholders that he thought 500 ,000 Cybertrucks a year would sell. Well, now, today, with this announcement, Tesla is pulling the plug on the Cybertruck amid poor sales and winding it down. Thanks so much for joining us here tonight on The Source. CNN Newsnight starts now. I'm Adi Cornish. I'm Ari Shapiro, and it's Engagement Party. And we get to talk about what we're obsessed with, what we're engaged with, what we need to process with a friend.

46:03Her name is Amy O'Dell. She is a fashion writer, blogger. But the thing is, she's a journalist who's written about the sacred cows of fashion. And yes, I mean, Gwyneth Paltrow and Anna Wintour. She has done biographies of both. And she is also the sort of rare fashion writer who, at this point, kind of outside the system. And so the question that we're going to try to tackle is... Is fashion terrible now? Well, no, I mean, I would phrase it as how do you develop a personal style in the age of AI slop? You know, on social media, like creators have to try a whole bunch of different things and see what catches.

46:38And then they make it over and over and over again. The same thing happens with clothing. So they're sort of seeding the market, seeding the internet with all of these different ideas. And then they can see what sells and then they can just make them really fast. Follow Engagement Party. Wherever you get your podcasts.