Talarico Speaks with Texas Voters at CNN Town Hall

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0:43We're going to stick with whatever's in the public domain. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for a 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. New customer offer for initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms. And you've been watching a CNN and Jubilee Town Hall with candidate James Tallarico in Fort Worth, Texas. Thank you for staying with us for this special edition of The Source. I'm Caitlin Collins. We're going to check back in with Aaron and some of those audience members that you just heard from asking some really great questions of the candidate in this tight race.

1:22Are they satisfied with what they heard? Did it change anyone's mind inside that room tonight or anyone watching? I'll be joined here by some of our top political reporters, data experts and strategists with insights and analysis on what we just heard from James Tallarico, who, as you can see there, is saying his goodbyes to the audience members that he was just sitting down with. And also, of course, who is vying to become the first Democrat to win a Senate seat in Texas in 38 years. We're 20 days out from the midterm elections from tonight. and a pair of new polls that we've gotten show no clear leader between Tallarico, the Democrat in this race, and his opponent, the Republican Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton.

2:05Now, polls like that explain why President Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance have been making several stops in Texas in just the last two weeks alone, and why these two parties have spent more than half a billion dollars on this Senate race alone. And as we keep an eye on Fort Worth, James Tallarico is there greeting everyone, saying goodbye. Obviously we're watching it all closely and I also have my powerhouse sources here at the table with me and Paul Begala, you're our Texan. You tell us what you thought. Three of us are Texans.

2:38We're feeling a little outnumbered. We need some Alabama folks. Paul, what do you think? Jason is a friend of mine I've known for a number of years. Having said that, you know what I was thinking of? I was thinking of July 27, 2004, Fleet Center Boston Massachusetts a skinny state legislator with a funny name that nobody ever heard of gave the best speech I've ever heard a convention the best introduction to the nation I've ever seen this guy these people that in Fort Worth digging it 22 years from that I could say man I was there when James Tallarico burst on the national scene yeah we've all heard about him okay but my my you know my friends you know around the country have not and I this was first it was I thought it was wonderful because it was him he's authentic and he was engaging he's intelligent and empathetic, but it was strategic.

3:22This was a heat-seeking missile at Republican voters who supported John Cornyn but don't like Ken Paxton and an independent-leaning Republican. That's why he went 90 minutes all positive. In just the last minute, he had to kind of put the wood to Mr. Paxton. That's fine. This was relentlessly positive because he knows those voters, they've already heard all the bad about Ken Paxton in the primary. He's reaching them with ideas and positive and moderate positions. I just thought it was brilliant. And so, Chi, I mean, obviously, another Texan that we've got with us. And I should note, your sister is running for governor of Texas as a Democrat in that race.

3:55We've had her on the show. People have heard from her. She's running against Governor Abbott. But what did you make, obviously, from your perspective? Because Democrats have obviously been heavily invested in Texas before, come up short. What did you make of what you heard tonight? Yeah, absolutely. So I think there are a few things. One is he had a positive message, but he also talked about how we are all on the same team, regardless of political Party. He also talked about a lot. And the message I think that is working in Texas for Democrats right now is that it is us as Texans versus a few billionaires.

4:27And when they're talking about a few billionaires, they're also talking about the elected leaders in the state that have enriched themselves. You've heard a little bit about it tonight from James Tallarico talking about how a man in public service has now made$27 million and owns almost 15 homes. How does that happen And when you were in public service, there was some corruption there. So this message of it is us versus those very few that are benefiting off of the policies made by Republicans is really working at a time when people are struggling with costs. And I would say, on the other hand, if you look, if you are in the state of Texas and turn on your television, there are ads and they are not on the economy.

5:09All of those ads are on culture wars. and Republicans believe that what happened in 2024 when they ran on the culture wars will work again this year. And that is just not the case when they are in charge of everything and have not delivered on affordability. Yeah, what was his line about the minority that he wants to talk about is the billionaires? The billionaires, exactly. Yeah, yeah, the exact line was the only minority destroying America is billionaires. Yeah, which was a response of obviously, you know, taking those culture wars and what has been such a focus of this. Sure, Michael, as the Republican, how did you hear that?

5:44I mean, because this is a close race. It is a close race. Look, he's a talented guy. I'll give him that. But he pretended to be a moderate tonight. Here's a guy who was asked about a school choice by one of the questioners, and he said it was essentially a scheme by billionaires outside of the state of Texas. Well, tell that to the mother and the father who would like to remove their child from a bad school system. He talked about wanting to air and actually challenged him on ice. Several months ago, his campaign said we have to remove ICE, tear it down, something new, whatever that new thing is.

6:14Apparently, they didn't know then. He doesn't know now. And he said, well, that's no longer my position. I think we need to reform ICE because now I'm a moderate Democrat who believes we need to have some type of immigration reform. That's not what he said several months ago. So, look, I think he's a talented, clever guy. He's running a competitive race, which is outside of the norm, considering the environment. But I'm looking at a governor who is in a close race against Sochi's sister, who's raised nearly$100 million, Currently$20 million cash on hand with 92 % approval of Republican voters in Texas.

6:42If he wins in Texas, and look, Kim Paxton is certainly not my kind of guy. He is not morally or ethically, and I'll just be honest about that. But he's who the hell we have because Donald Trump decided to endorse him. It is what it is. That said, though, if Abbott wins, I'm of the assumption that he will pull Kim Paxton with him across the finish line. I don't see Texas Republicans split tickets the way they did in Georgia with the governor Kemp. And then they voted for Raphael Warnock as opposed to the football player that President Trump endorsed at the time. Jeff Mason, this is a race that the White House is deeply invested in.

7:19I mean, Trump doesn't like the way Ken Paxton looks or dresses or talks, as he has made clear in many appearances that you and I have covered. But that is his candidate, and they have been in Texas because clearly they are worried about James Tallarico's momentum. Well, and I think in part, to sure Michael's point and yours now, it's his candidate, and therefore his reputation is also on the line. Not only the president's reputation as a picker of candidates, but also potentially his agenda. If this particular race ends up turning the Senate blue. So there's a reason he's going to Texas and the advance is going to Texas, and it's that.

7:53They want to help him even if they're not entirely sold or President Trump isn't entirely sold on his appearance and some of the other things. Yeah, and I thought the format was really interesting tonight because obviously voters were directly asking him questions. It's a town hall. But there was also this moment where he would sit down across from voters and engage with them on a range of issues from, you know, housing affordability to abortion and all kinds of topics. And picking up on what Paul said, I mean, in my reporting, a lot of people who may be against President Trump are also skeptical about Democrats and feel like Democrats don't have a vision for the country.

8:30And he used this town hall tonight to express his vision. It could end up being a bit of an example for others in the party. Look what he's doing here, Caitlin. Yeah. The town hall ended, you know, 10 minutes ago. He's still there. He's talking to people one on one. That's reminiscent. I already compared to Obama. That's reminiscent of my old boss, Bill Clinton. And here's why it's so hard for a Texan to do that, Texas politician. Clinton was from Arkansas, and I always used to tease him that Houston has more people than the state of Arkansas. It's adorable they get their own little state. But he learned person-to-person politics by growing up in a small state.

9:05For James, who's running a state with 30 million people, two time zones, 19 media markets, for him to still have the touch of a guy who can just sit and chat with you, they're going to have to drag him out of there the way we used to have to Clinton. Yeah, and he remembered that one voter who got up and described his two sons as buttheads. I just heard him a second ago saying, you're the one with the two kids at home, which was good recall because that happened about 8.15. David Urban, you're also here with us. And as you're watching that, you know, Republicans have been sweating this race. I think as Shermichael just laid out there, he thinks that maybe Governor Abbott being at the top of that ticket will help pull Ken Paxton and Tallarga's opponent across the line.

9:44What did you hear tonight? What stood out to you? Oh, Caitlin, Caitlin, Caitlin. Listen, the unchecked adulation of Paul Begala is almost too much for me to stomach. I love Paul. Paul should run for senator-governor. He's way better than James Tallarico and way more likable. Listen, I heard a guy get up there and try to have it both ways, right? I support oil and gas. He introduced the piece of legislation to the Texas House, excuse me, the Texas Legislature to ban oil and gas. He he's talking about the Bible. I think the Bible's it's silent on abortion. Earlier in the year, he said the Bible gives explicit instructions how to perform abortions.

10:25He dodged. He weaved. He ducked. He didn't answer. Listen, no one asked a tough question on guns. It's the state of Texas. Like here's position on guns. I think some people came prepared. Listen, I love the format. You know, kudos to CNN for putting it on. And look, I give him credit for showing up and doing it. But nobody laid a glove on him. I wish there was somebody there who really pushed hard and asked him on some of these questions. He didn't answer the question when asked about, listen, why do you think about negative ads? And if you're going to work with everybody, what are you going to do about them?

10:57He didn't answer that question. When he talked about the deficit, he didn't say anything about, well, we're going to rein in spending. I'm going to make sure we don't go crazy as Democrats and spend, spend, spend. He painted himself as a moderate, as Shermichael said. He is the furthest thing from a moderate. Well, all right. We got a lot more thoughts to get to tonight. David Urban, everybody's here. Harry Inton is also standing by with us. We're going to also check back in with Erin Burnett. She's still there with those undecided voters in Fort Worth who attended the town hall. What did they make of James Tallarico tonight?

11:30We'll be right back after this. Good job.

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12:39And welcome back to a special edition of The Source. We are fresh off that CNN and Jubilee Town Hall with Texas Senate candidate James Tallarico in Fort Worth, Texas. The Democratic candidate took questions from a live audience of Texas voters, some of them who showed up undecided. My colleague Erin Burnett is with some of those audience members. Erin. All right. Thank you. And Mr. Tallarico is still here talking. He's been, you know, meeting people, taking pictures, talking to voters ever since this ended just a few moments ago. I am here, though, with three women who were undecided. You all said when you came in and you did have a chance to talk to Mr.

13:16Tallarico during the town hall to ask questions. But you were undecided coming in. And I believe, Tina, you're a registered Republican, right? I am a Republican. You are a Republican. You are an independent. Yes. And you're an independent. Yes. So you came in with different perspectives. Okay, so I guess let me just let me start over here with you Monica. You just brought up AI data centers. Yeah, now I was in the room watching there were certain there were a few topics where there was applause across the board not everybody but across across the board the Iran war was one of those AI data centers it raises for teachers were another one of those AI data centers was another one.

13:50Yeah, okay, so you asked him what he was going to do about it, right? Did the answer satisfy you? Did you change or not change your mind? Did you decide who you're going to vote for? When he actually mentioned that King Paxton is actually, you know, for data centers and that he was actually going to make some, give some resolution to like the, you know, he actually has a mind to actually give some policies against that or, you know, that did kind of sway me a lot. So I think I probably will, he probably will get my vote after hearing that he has that policy in place. For the AI data centers. All right, Tina, you asked about the border.

14:27I did. Which was top issue for you as well as for others in the room. Absolutely. Okay. So what did you hear? Well, what I heard him say is a no to my answer, which is if someone enters our country illegally and has no legal right to stay, will the federal law support, you know. Deporting them. Deporting them. Thank you. And even though he kind of talked around it, he still said no, he would he doesn't believe in that in that. So it's interesting. I'm curious because he talked about, well, if someone's a criminal in any case, he thinks they should be kicked out. Right. The protecting that he that that was unacceptable.

15:10But he did talk about Uber drivers and people in the community that he felt they should have a pathway to citizenship. But that did not resonate with you. No, I heard that. And sure. I mean, yes, have a pathway to citizenship. But my question was very specific, which was if you've entered into our country illegally and have no basis to stay legally, should you be deported? And and so that was that was my question. So does federal law support that? I understand. So. So where do you stand now? Are you still undecided? Did that shift you towards Paxton? Did that what where are you? That didn't shift me either way.

15:48It's just another data point. we still have time to make and research this. I got to hear a lot of points that he made today, and I will continue. I've been doing my research on all of the candidates, and that is civically responsible that we don't just choose because of a party line, that we should know who we're choosing and then support that. So you're still what you're still thinking? I'm going to still, I'm still, I'm Republican, right? And I'm going to continue to do my research to make sure that I'm doing my city. So let me ask you, and I'm sorry, I just want to keep, I want to keep pushing because I just, you know, people are following this race so closely.

16:29Is your choice for you right now between Tallarico and Paxton, or is it between Paxton and maybe either somebody else or you sit this one out? I mean, I'm not sure yet. You know, what's important to me is women and making sure that women are able to have opportunities and making sure that firefighters are protected. And so this isn't just immigration for me. This is the entire thing. It was just one question you had. It was, yes. This is broad. And I think coming into this room, I said that there was not one issue that was going to sway me one way or the other. This is about Texas and our legacy.

17:21And I stand on legacy. I know that a lot of people on stage today, we're eighth generation. I'm a fourth generation Texan. And so it is important to me as to what happens when the next person gets into the Senate and how they vote. And he was talking about housing. He made a point of saying, by the way, there were certain issues where he didn't care what California or Democrat or New York Democrats did, that he would do whatever Texas want, even if it, quote unquote, pissed the Democrats off. OK, that's what he said. You talked about housing. Did he win your vote? I think I'm going to take my American right and not express that.

17:59But what I will say is I think my goal tonight was to express him. There are Texans that lived here before the inflation and before the high rises of high rises of gas and different things like that. And we should not brunt the cost of having a great migration. I think that it is important for a Texas economy to grow, but not at the expense of people who stayed in Texas because we already knew the quality of Texas before everyone else caught on. On that issue? Yes. Were you satisfied with his answer? Oh, that hit you positive. I'm satisfied with his answer. But what I'm burdened with is what most minorities are burdened with.

18:35We are sold a lot of things during political campaign. But when they get in office, the priority changes. And so for me, it's going to be like as if someone starts a job. whomever wins, those first six months are going to be critical for me to watch and be able to observe if they really meant what they said. All right, which I know is the big question that all of you have, whatever your political party may be. All right, thanks so much to all of you. Back to you guys. And thank you so much. It's so great to hear from them and really interesting to see their takeaways, especially after listening to James Tallarico himself.

19:11And of course, we are listening and talking to the voters in the room. It's not just those who are undecided in the room. Also voters who had made up their minds and got the opportunity to sit down and debate James Tallarico directly. We're going to hear from some of them on their takeaways right after this.

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20:03It's the first night following that CNN and Jubilee Town Hall with the Democratic Senate candidate James Tallarico there in Fort Worth, Texas tonight. We're going to hear more from voters who were in that room and heard from the candidate himself in just a moment. When you're looking at Texas overall, as we were leading up to the midterms, early voting starts there on Monday. And as he is hoping to attract independents and those crossover Republicans to support him, we heard a candidate tonight whose message repeatedly targeted voters who are in the middle. What I'm trying to get back to is OG capitalism, where we actually reward work instead of wealth.

20:44And right now - But people could still accumulate wealth? Of course, I'm all for success. I want an economy that creates fewer trillionaires and more millionaires. Right now, our tax system literally taxes work more than it taxes wealth. And I think that's backwards. I'm campaigning on an all the above energy strategy that includes oil and gas. I want to protect the good paying oil and gas jobs that support whole families across the state. And I want us to invest in the energy sources of the future, wind and solar and geothermal and hydrogen and batteries, so that we can stay dominant in the energy industry.

21:23What I don't want to see is politicians, frankly, in both parties, play in politics with Texas Energy. And so I will stand up to my own party if they mess with our oil and gas industry. And I will stand up to the other party if they mess with renewables, which we've seen in recent years. We need immigration and customs enforcement in this country. But that's not what we're seeing. What we've seen over the last year is a secret police force. And that's what we don't want in this country. We don't want masked men in unmarked vehicles coming through and terrorizing our communities. We don't want federal agents murdering our neighbors before our very eyes.

21:57I think we agree. Powerful people are using small minorities in our community to distract from their corruption. The only the the the the only minority destroying America is the billionaires. They they are constantly trying to divide us.

22:25and welcome back our political experts are back with me and paul i mean i really think what he was trying to do tonight was thread that needle i mean if you listen to those answers they are appealing to to those voters that he is trying to get to bubble in next to his name in a few weeks from today yes and this is like the thing that makes my head explode when when stupid people on other networks say all the energy is on the left in the democratic party really really he's running away from the left like the devil runs from holy water. Okay. He is moderate centrist. That's where the energy is. That's where the winning is.

22:56That's where the voters are. James Tallarico knows that. And I think other Democrats ought to take a look at him and lots of other Democrats around the country and see that the real energy in this country and in my party is in the center. And that's exactly what Tallarico was doing tonight. Yeah. I mean, he was saying border security Democrat. He said, if my party goes this way, when it comes to oil and gas. I'm happy to break with them on that. There were several moments there as you were listening to him where he wasn't afraid to run away from the National Democratic Party. Yeah, he also talks about how he is for voter ID, but he wants to make sure that it makes sense.

23:29And, you know, Texas has voter ID in the state. And I think what is interesting about this is that Republicans have been in control. There's been one party control in Texas for about 25 years. And so whenever people are saying that they are frustrated with the way that things are, Republicans can't say, well, I'm going to change it. They've been in power for 25 years. They've even changed the rules to help them. They did away with straight ticket voting in the state because they thought that it was going to help, that it was helping Democrats. Guess what? Angela Paxton just recorded an ad saying not for not talking about her ex-husband Paxton.

24:10She was talking about you need to vote Republican. That message would work if there was straight ticket voting in Texas, but there is no longer there. And also these congressional districts that were redrawn, Abbott thought and Republicans thought that redrawing congressional districts would end up helping them. these congressional districts, Democrats are leading in some of these polls. And it might look like Republicans may not pick up those seats anymore. Yeah, you guys might pick up two of them. I think that's actually fair, Sochi. Look, this is someone who is now running as a moderate, and I understand why.

24:46But he's not a moderate. He says, I believe in capitalism. That's not what he said a year, two, three years ago. He said, I want more millionaires with no billionaires. So is 100 million the maximum, or 900 million the maximum? He said, I'm for oil and gas. I want more people to work in that industry in Texas, and I'll stand up to Democrats. Yet he said he wanted to get rid of oil and gas all across the state of Texas. Now, look, his position on immigration, the empathy, the compassion, I'm not necessarily against that. And I appreciate some moderation there. But those were not his beliefs just six, seven, eight months ago.

25:18And so I think for Republicans, and look, I'm not here defending Ken Paxton. I'm speaking for Republicans broadly here. For Republicans, I think the message is going to be when you look at the state of Texas as a whole, and you're right, so if you're 25 years, it's a long time. But there is a reason that Texas is the number two state, I believe, now in terms of people from California, other parts of the United States moving to Texas because of the economy, because of schools, because of housing, because it's a good place to live. That's all under Republican leadership, and James Tallarico wants to fundamentally change that when he goes to the United States Senate, and I don't think most Texans want that.

25:51Well, Harry Enten, you are our chief data cruncher who gets brought up at every Trump rally, including, I think, twice today, if I'm just counting. You're bipartisan. You talk about the numbers for Democrats and Republicans. When you look at this and you see the voters that James Tallarico is trying clearly to appeal to tonight, what did you what stood out to you? No harm. Do no harm. That's the number one rule of these events. And I don't think he did any harm because Paul is giddier than I will be if the Buffalo Bills finally win the Super Bowl. And sure, Michael's talking about what his record actually is as opposed to what the voters heard tonight.

26:26So to me, this just strikes me as a win for James Tallarico. Look, ultimately, this race is going to be decided by people who don't watch cable news and who probably aren't watching that town hall. But don't be surprised if James Tallarico or any of the groups that are backing him splice together some of the things that you heard tonight in ads and those do reach voters. And to me, that's a plus. Well, and on that note, David Urban, you just brought up what happened in that moment, which was an interesting format, seeing the candidates sit across from a voter. Jubilee does these kinds of formats a bunch.

27:00And basically, they were able to debate him and challenge him. And he was saying that the Bible doesn't really talk about abortion. And the voter corrected him and said she thought it did because it says thou shalt not kill. She was anti-abortion, obviously. You mentioned something that Tallarico had said previously in terms of how he's talking today versus what he said before. I just want everyone to hear what James Tallarico had said before about abortion. When was abortion even invented? Well, there were certainly abortions in the ancient world. There are some. Well, there's some. There's. And again, I haven't stated this enough to say this definitively, But there are interpretations of certain passages from the Torah where some folks will even say that there is a there is some subtle instructions for how to perform an abortion in the ancient world, certain things to drink, things like that.

27:54So he said subtle instructions, not explicit instructions. But to your to your point, though, David, I think, you know, he's been asked a lot about things he has said before, whether it is about ice. when he said God was non-binary, which tonight he was saying that he shouldn't have basically said that. He was being provocative in that moment. He's described these past positions when he's asked about him as cringy and kind of chosen to handle it that way. Yeah, listen, Caitlin, I will gladly cede my time here to Daniel Dale to fact check this entire evening. No, we're doing it right here with you and I.

28:30There's no Daniel Dale coming to save us. It's the question. Why not? Why don't we have Daniel Dale here tonight? That's what people are going to ask. Because I just did it. Because James Tallarico, no, James Tallarico was given a pass, I think, on so many of these issues. He introduced a bill to eliminate 650 ,000 jobs in the state of Texas in the oil and gas industry. That is shocking. It is shocking. Nobody pushed back on that. The person who asked the question didn't raise it. We didn't push back. So he's going to, he's going to splice together these things like, um, like Harry said, and he's going to come out.

29:03Listen, it is a complete misrepresentation. Paul's correct. He's running towards the middle because that's what you have to do. You can't win if you're not in the middle. But his positions are far from being in the middle, far from being mainstream. And he's trying to make them mainstream because he realizes that's the only way he's going to win. We didn't hear one question about guns tonight. Let's hear his position on guns in the state of Texas. Yeah. Yeah, and Harry, I mean, well, also when you looked at the, they ranked voters' issues of what they thought was the most important. Affordability was number one.

29:36I thought one of the most interesting exchanges was the voter, I think she was second to last at the end, and she was talking about how she's done a good job managing her money, trying to go and buy a home in Texas, and how it's such a struggle for her because other families were there that were willing to pay$80K more than what she had budgeted for. And in terms of what is on voters' minds, I mean, talking about housing, talking about inflation, the new numbers we got today, that has been far and away the biggest issue. Trushing. It's crushing to the Republican Party. It's crushing the Donald Trump's presidency.

30:08Affordability, the economy, those are the reasons that Donald Trump won a second term back in 2024. And now Democrats have their first lead on inflation nationally since the Gerald Ford administration. I mean, I'm old, but I ain't that old. And I will note that that is exactly, that is exactly what James Tallarico is running on. And that is why he is in the best polling position of any Democrat this late in the campaign, this entire century in Texas. So you mentioned housing. That's right up there. I think it's sort of a secret hidden issue. And this is a reason why James Tallarico is in the position that he is in, because in a lot of voters' minds, Republicans have failed on it.

30:47Well, I mean, and to that point, Jeff Mason, we both cover the White House. That new Fox News poll came out today showing President Trump's approval rating. Disapproval is 64 percent of his job performance. I think approval on inflation was like 22 percent, which I was pretty stunned by. I mean, those are always have always been his best numbers typically on the economy. But the president saying act like I'm on the ballot when you guys go and vote when he's in states like Texas. Well, I think he's saying that specifically to people who voted for him two years ago. And he wants them to come out, even if there's some within that group who are probably unhappy with how he's performed on inflation, on the economy, even on immigration and the war.

31:27But he does have some strength in states that he won really well two years ago. And he just wants those people not to sit on their hands and to come out. Yeah. All right. We will see if they do and if that message works. I want to go back to Erin, who is standing by with reaction from another group of voters who were there tonight at the Tallarico town hall. Yeah. And these voters actually debated. And I have to say, OK, you both came out and you debated on live television with somebody who wants to be a senator. OK, pretty, pretty incredible. There was a clock for four minutes. And I'm saying, wait, do you know, you can't be expected to do that.

32:06All right. You came out first out of the gate. Your name got called. And you had no idea, right? I had no idea. I was first. I have no idea. I know. I looked at you and the look on your face, you're like, oh, okay, here we go. All right. So abortion was what you presented as your issue. And you basically said, give me a reason as a Catholic who is pro-life to vote for you. Yes. Did he give you a reason? You know, I would still say I'm largely still undecided and a large part of that because of my faith, I take things to prayer. So I would do discernment and praying with it, But I was really impressed with him this evening.

32:41I think over the last few months between him and Paxton and the mudslinging, like that first question that was asked, has caused a lot of noise where I haven't really heard from Tallarico himself. And I found a more balanced politician. I was surprised at how centrist he was on many of the issues. And I think that has brought me to a deeper understanding. It's caused some things for me to think, well, let me rethink that. And let me, you know, and I liked his, I liked that he responded to me. I liked that he invited us to sit down and challenge him. Because oftentimes Catholics, we focus on that one issue.

33:18And to have someone say, well, let's talk about it and let's come to a common ground. I value and I appreciate him bringing, like he recognizes Pope Leo and Pope Francis' teaching on that. He knows that we have his deep faith that drives us in what we do in our decisions and human life and natural law. But to give him the opportunity to think about, OK, let's step back and say, where do we come together on this so all Texans are protected? And where do we start from there and move forward? And he was talking about how he defined life. Yes. And I want to just play part of that exchange because it did come down to that.

33:51Yes. You know, obviously a very profound issue. Yes.

33:56You know, some of my spiritual heroes, like Pope Francis and Pope Leo, are pro-life. And they are consistently pro-life. They're not just against abortion, but they are against poverty, against climate change, against war. And so I can respect anyone like you who is consistently pro-life. And I actually think there's common ground we can find here. We may come to different moral and ethical conclusions when it comes to the question of should abortion be legal or not. It sounds like you and I do come to a different conclusion. That's okay. We're both Christians, and the Bible is silent on the issue of abortion.

34:38It means you and I both have to look at different scriptures to try to come to a conclusion. But what I think we can do is actually come together on reducing the number of unplanned pregnancies and the number of abortions. Because if we treat this issue as a public health problem and not a culture war problem, then we can actually make progress together.

35:05Now, Jodi, what I think is interesting is you pushed back. You said, actually, no, the Bible is not silent on the issue of abortion. Thou shalt not kill. Yes. Okay. And you were, I felt you were very intense and impassioned when you said that. Yes. He then responded. But all in, even though you do disagree on this most fundamental issue, you walked away thinking more highly of him. I did. I did. I think that he engaged in it and knowing he's Presbyterian and I'm Catholic. Yep. And our theological difference of like when life begins is, he's really staunch in that belief. I'm really staunch on my belief is through 2 ,000 years of Catholic teaching at conception, the life begins.

35:44And we protect that life from the very moment of the womb to the tomb. And we see it as murder when you create abortion, when you create that act. But I respect him because he didn't. I didn't feel like he sidestepped. I think he's like, you know, this is what I believe, Jodi. And this is you and I are going to disagree on this. But how can we cross the aisles, shake our hands and say, what can we do to help limit the number of abortions? You brought up some things where you did agree, you know, laws here in Texas. Right, sure. When he talked about women who were dying in parking lots. Sure. Because they aren't able to get a boy with the life of the mother.

36:17Yes. Right? And that's something where I know you and he do agree on this issue. And there are, in the Catholic Church, there are morally permissible, and we say it's very rare, and we recognize it's rare, but it does happen. And so when you do have a woman with an ectopic pregnancy, and they don't have the ability, you don't have a hospital that can tend to that, because there's governmental laws that prevent that. Like here in Texas. It's like there's issues with that. And so there is those moral gray grounds sometimes. Even as Catholics, we have to go in and say, okay, what are we going to do to discern this and work together?

36:48And those situations that life is protected on both sides. So you have this conversation, which I thought was nuanced, right? And you walk away, you say, feeling more positive about him, even though you disagree on something very fundamental to you. Paul, when you walked up, you were talking about something you're uncomfortable with that he supports. Yes. And that is sending money to certain international situations, specifically the war in Ukraine. OK, you expressed your concern with that. And he said, no, he thinks this is this is worth it. And it is that it will be worth it for the United States to send this money to Ukraine.

37:24Did he convince you? I think he made a lot of really good points. I think the idea that, you know, the government that we're going to have long term benefits is very true. Like you talked about in World War Two. We don't just want to let foreign wars happen. stopping them can be good. The hard part where I don't think I'm convinced is why those foreign wars are more important. And I wish I had pressed more on this in retrospect, more important than when I look back and I, you know, when I worked in fast food and there was a bridge with a massive homeless community right next to me, I look at those problems and I say, we can send money there.

37:57And instead we're sending billions of dollars to Ukraine. That's kind of where my metric comes. And I'm not quite sure he convinced me that it's more important to focus on those foreign wars and to focus on our fellow Texans. So you talk about when he brought up the Second World War. Let me just play part of that exchange here, Paul, so everyone can hear it. Here it is. I think we learned back in the Second World War that when we fail to stand up to an aggressor in Europe, that comes back to haunt us. And we need to strengthen Ukraine. We need to strengthen our NATO allies as they stand up to Russian aggression.

38:36So we don't have to. So in some ways, I see this as a cost saving measure. If we can stop this aggression, if we can stop Vladimir Putin in Ukraine, then we're not going to have to stop him elsewhere. And I always think we got to be good stewards of our taxpayer funds. We got to be strategic when it comes to any investments abroad. I think what we're doing in Ukraine is a good investment. I think it will save us money in the long run, but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't always examine it and ensure that we are using taxpayer dollars in the most efficient and effective way possible. So you say he didn't convince you, but what does this mean for where you stand in terms of your vote?

39:19In terms of my vote, I think I align with Tallarico on a lot of issues. I think a lot of our values tend to be aligned. I think we do disagree on foreign policy, but I think for the most part, when I look at, you know, his whole slew of on his website, all the different issues that he has. And I've read through most of those pages and I just keep finding myself nodding my head and I keep finding myself agreeing. So I think in politics, it's really difficult to find someone who you perfectly align with. I haven't ever met someone who I 100 percent politically agree with. And I think in terms like this, like, I believe Tallarico is going to do the most good.

39:54So I do think he has my vote. He said he supports voter ID. Now, not in every, he said that is accessible to everybody. OK, but he was taking questions from a Republican voter who supports the SAVE Act. Now, Tallarico said, I don't want to get into the policy of that. I'll tell you what I do support. So I just want to be clear on that. But he said he supports voter ID. And he said that he would stand up to Democratic senators. uh senators it was specifically said well when he came jeffrey says you're going to vote for this and the democrats from california and the democrats from new york are going to do it and you're supposed to get in line will you do it and he said no even if it pisses them off do you believe him i think i do i think talarico is kind of the bright light the light on the hill that we see where at least from my perception of him and from sitting down across from him for the first time and getting to talk to him as a person he seems to me to be someone with integrity and i I think that integrity in politics has been lost in many generations.

40:51It's been going down on the decline. And I see him almost as that light on a hill to bring us back to politicians who are voting in alignment with their conscience and their morals, but also with their constituents and doing what's best for them. And I will say, as we wrap this conversation, I don't know if you both felt this way. I felt very energized by the fact that there were Democrats, Republicans and independents. And they listened. There were smattering applause from both sides on so many issues. And people were just so respectful of each other. and wanting to be together. And that felt, I felt very uplifted by that.

41:21But thank you both so much for taking the time and staying late to talk to us. I know you've got to go to work and everything tomorrow. All right, thank you so much. And back to you guys. Yeah, they're going to need an extra cup of coffee in the morning. It's so good to hear from them tonight. And up next, we are going to go back on the ground in Texas. My colleague Jeff Zeleny is there. What he's hearing from voters and candidates on the ground and what they have planned for this final stretch before the midterm elections.

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42:31Forget the music budget. We're going to stick with whatever's in the public domain. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for a 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. New customer offer for initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms. A potentially consequential night for the Democratic Senate nominee, James Tallarico, who is speaking directly with voters who are asking him their questions at our CNN and Jubilee Town Hall tonight. Right now, polls have been showing that he is in a dead heat against the Republican Ken Paxton in this race.

43:07And a win in November would make him the first Democrat in a generation to win a statewide election in the state of Texas. I want to bring in Jeff Zeleny, who is live from our town hall site tonight. Jeff, obviously you've been covering this race. You've been out there on the ground in Texas. What were your takeaways from listening to James Tallarico tonight? Well, Caitlin, it was very striking how James Tallarico was trying to appeal to supporters and skeptics alike. I mean, really confronting head-on some of the controversies or the past comments that have really become the fodder for this multimillion-dollar advertising blitz against him.

43:44I was struck by the humility in which he answered some questions about some of his past statements about God being a non-binary, for example. And he said, look, sometimes I don't say things in the right way. I'm learning at this. I mean, clearly trying to present himself as a moderate candidate. Republicans, of course, have been trying to cast him as too liberal for Texas. But beyond all of that back and forth, as I talk to voters here, I'm not sure that they are as caught up in this, you know, the controversies than the past votes about the transgender issues and things, as they are on affordability and the economy.

44:23And perhaps the biggest question mark hanging over his head for some of those Republican voters or moderate voters is, is he too beholden to the Democratic Party? I thought he was very blunt in saying, look, I already pledge allegiance to a sports team. He said, I will not pledge my allegiance to the Democratic Party. I will be my own candidate. So I think that is his biggest hurdle at this point of trying to get over some of the skepticism that some moderate Republicans may have in supporting him. Is a vote for him going to lead to a Democratic majority? And for some, that is a bridge too far.

44:58But just listing some of those undecided voters, even after that extraordinary exchange on abortion and the Bible. Jody Hunt of San Antonio said she was still undecided and was going to study him more, and she complimented him and praised him for answering her questions. So I think the degree to which this will resonate, obviously it balances with this big advertising campaign against him, but he did himself a lot of good tonight. I think there's no doubt about that. Jeff Zeleny, thank you for joining us tonight. Great to have you. and my political experts are back here. Paul, final thoughts? I love this town hall so much, I want to slow dance with it to a Willie Nelson waltz.

45:38I just couldn't be asking. Oh, my Lord. By the way, Willie is supporting Tallarico and Gina. I bet he is. He actually is. Look, this is ultimately going to come down to turnout. And can the president's presence in Texas get enough of those low propensity voters who are difficult to model in polling to turn out and vote for the governor and Ken Paxton. If he's effective, we win. If he's not effective, then, you know, God bless Texas. Listen, we were here tonight because Ken Paxton did not want to debate. And I think that as David Urban and Shermichael have pointed out, there are certain questions that may not have been asked.

46:18I think it is honestly harder to face voters and their questions than to go back and forth with another candidate, especially because these were tough questions from voters. They were tough questions about his record, what he had said previously, and he couldn't come back with an attack like he would at Kempaxton or anything else. And so I thought this format actually, it's hard for a politician to do this type of format. He took questions from a teacher, from a parent, from a student, and from a farmer. So, I mean, I think overall this was a great format. Democrats have been saying Texas could turn purple for as long as I've been a political reporter.

46:54It is still an uphill climb, but they certainly feel like they're close right now. But I think the reality check is still important that it's a tough sell. Yeah, I mean, that's really the big question here, Paul. Thirty-eight years. Do you know how many states have elected a Democrat statewide in those 38 years? Forty-nine. So Texans were 0 for life, for your life, for young people's life. Wait, is that true? Yes, 49 states. Texas is the only one? I asked Billy Begala that. Billy lives in Texas and works in Texas politics. Wow. Yeah, so thank you. By the way, it's his birthday. Billy, happy birthday.

47:31Thank you for feeding me your data. But, yes, it is the most Republican big state. But I do think that Tallarico, and I think so is his sister, can break that. Bigger than the OU-Texas game? Oh, that didn't happen. Don't. You can't. Don't. Break my heart. I had to bring it up. We're not talking about Alabama, though. Great to have everybody here tonight. Harry and David as well. Thank you both for being here. Thank you all so much for joining us here for a special edition of the Source Late Night Version. CNN Newsnight with Abby Phillip is up next. The real cost of a break-in isn't your valuables.

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