White House Airs Another Taxpayer-Funded Ad

0:00Every day, animals across the country face abuse and neglect. And every day, the ASPCA shows up to rescue animals in crisis. But they can't do it alone. Visit ASPCA.org slash need. Become a donor today to provide the care and shelter these animals urgently need. And for a limited time, the ASPCA will send you a free gift as a special thank you. Visit ASPCA.org slash need. What we're learning tonight about how President Trump was personally involved in using taxpayer dollars for political ads. I'm Caitlin Collins and this is The Source.

0:57The midterms are 36 days away. And in the words of one Trump advisor to CNN, quote, it's obviously going to be effing rough. Now, while that might be what one advisor thinks privately, it's very different from what President Trump is saying publicly. Well, and I'm going to come to Iowa. I got more votes than anybody in history during the last election. All three I went up, up, up. And I think I'm more popular now than I was then, which is a year and a half ago. Some of the polling go for some of the races right now in the Senate and also some of the House races a little closer, much closer, in fact.

1:34Why are Republicans, do you think, having to work so hard to hold on to the seats? I don't know. I love Iowa. I've always been very strong with Iowa. There's been some things that the Democrats have done that are very bad for our country. You know, they had high prices. I've reduced the prices. But they like to say affordability. But they're the ones that caused the affordability problem. They're the ones that caused all of these problems. and they were unwilling to stop Iran from having a nuclear weapon. I think the polls aren't accurate because I want it by so much and it doesn't make sense that they wouldn't be right up there with me.

2:11Now, despite what the president boasted there, the numbers actually don't line up with what he said. His own approval numbers have actually never been lower, according to the CNN poll of polls, and his numbers on the economy tonight are even worse. Polls show that three out of four Americans don't believe the president has a plan for handling higher gas prices. And sources say that the president's advisors have also privately acknowledged there's little expectation that he can win over large numbers of independents and swing voters before November 3rd. While they're not only concerned about losing control of the House, their confidence in keeping the Senate in Republican control also seems to be faltering.

2:51Now, the president has pledged he will be out there spending money to help every Republican get elected this fall. But it turns out that part of the money the president is spending is actually coming from taxpayers. And it's being used on ads like these. This is the final battle. We will throw off the sick political class that hates our country. We will rout the fake news media. And we will liberate America from these villains. Now, if that looks like a campaign ad for the president, rather than the public service announcement that the White House described it as, that might be because a nearly identical ad to that one ran during the president's last campaign.

3:35And the audio echoes a rally that he held also during that same campaign.

3:442024 is our final battle. We will throw off the sick political class that hates our country. We will rout the fake news media. Now tonight, my colleague Kristen Holmes reports that the president had a personal role in the ads. In another one that the White House put out, the president makes this argument and this promise about when Americans can expect the high prices they're paying to come down. Your oil, your gas is all coming way down. and you're going to see some very good things happen over the next 90-day period. I told Ken, 90 days, watch what happens. Okay, so you heard the president there promising relief in 90 days.

4:25Well, he did so, that was in Wisconsin, on June 5th, 115 days ago. Now, both ads note that they were, quote, paid for by the U.S. government at the end, which is highly unusual, potentially illegal, and they were made, despite the president noting often how much campaign cash he has. Well, I've raised a lot and nobody knows what it is, but I will tell you it's about$850 million. And I'll be spending a lot of that money for and my own money. Well, I have. I think I have like close to a billion dollars in the super PAC and I'm allocating probably four or five hundred million dollars. Tonight, we're hearing from Senate Majority Leader Republican John Thune, who broke with the president and said he doesn't think taxpayers should be funding those ads.

5:17As Republican Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana put it this way. I don't think any public official, including President Trump or Kristi Noem or John Kennedy, should spend public money on private ads for themselves. Now, the White House sees it differently, but I think there ought to be a rule that you can't, well, there probably is a rule. You can't spend public money to promote yourself. Democrats like Jamie Raskin say, yes, there are laws that you can't use that public money, taxpayer money, on ads to promote yourself as a politician. Now, the president's advisors have talked about the midterms, what the next 36 days are going to look like.

6:04and they say the president is going to be spending a lot of time on the campaign trail. Given he's pledged to focus on the most competitive races and the biggest battlegrounds, it's notable that he's scheduled to start the month of October with visits to Oklahoma and Alabama. You have a lot of upcoming Republican rallies. You're heading to Oklahoma, you're heading to Alabama, Ohio. What is your message to voters heading into the midterms? We have great people and we're running against communists, lunatics, socialists. We have the best economy, the biggest investment in the history of our country.

6:40Think of that. And my first source tonight is the Democrat who is running to be the next governor of Alabama, former Senator Doug Jones. Thank you, sir, for being here. You know, I've been asked this question a bunch. I wonder what you think. Why do you think the president is going to Mobile, Alabama, 36 days before the midterm elections? Well, you know, Caitlin, I'm going to take I don't take the president at his word very much these days, but I'm going to take him at his word that he is going into the most competitive districts and competitive statewide races these days, because that's what this is happening in Alabama right now.

7:17We're like everybody else in America. Our people are hurting with gas prices. They're hurting with health care. They're hurting with all this data center talk that's going around. So I think he's finally realizing that what was a safe seat is really one of the most competitive seats going around for the governorship of Alabama. I guess that's why he's coming. It's the only thing I can figure. You think he's coming because he thinks Tommy Tuberville's in trouble? Absolutely. Look, I don't think he's coming because he thinks that. I think he knows that. Tommy Tuberville has not done anything for the state of Alabama.

7:49He is everything he is saying is going against the grain of what folks in Alabama believe. He's not talking to the people in Alabama. I mean, for God's sakes, he lives in Florida. And so it's not uncommon for him not to know what the people of Alabama are thinking. We have been out there doing town halls one or two every week since the 1st of July. We're on a bus tour right now going through rural Alabama. He just speaks to his choir, and we're talking to the people of Alabama, and we're hearing so many things about this. And we're hearing so many people that have consistently said that they have voted Republican in the past are now are going to switch over because they want a change.

8:26And Caitlin, I'm telling you, I've said this for months. This is a changed election. I think people are tired of government not being responsive. And I think they certainly see that in Tommy Tuberville and Donald Trump. Well, I mean, it's Alabama. Some people might be skeptical, but obviously, you know, we covered your Senate race when you defeated Roy Moore. But in this moment that we're in right now, gas prices in Alabama are$1.43 higher than what they were when the Iran war started. And this is what Tommy Tuberville, the senator, said about how he thinks people in Alabama feel about that. How much is that hurting your constituents right now?

9:04Well, it's it's what's going to happen is in Alabama. Obviously, gas prices are high. They've been high before. People deal with that. They know it's going to go up and down. But, you know, our people in Alabama know that, you know, they voted for President Trump. They know he they gave him the opportunity to go back and and they're willing to pay higher prices, you think? Yeah, they're yeah, sure they are. Is that what you hear from people in Alabama? Oh, God, no. I mean, that just shows you. That just kind of proves my point, Caitlin, that he is out of touch. This is a guy who gets all his gas paid for by the government.

9:41He flies around in private jets. So the diesel prices, the diesel fuel, the gas prices, they don't affect him. And he's not talking to the people of Alabama. Look, we've got farmers who are hurting right now. It's harvesting season for cotton and other crops. And it costs a lot of money to get that equipment going. Truckers are having to spend more money to get goods brought across, you know, traveled across from Alabama or into Alabama. We got shrimp boats down on the Gulf Coast that are parking their boats because they can't afford the diesel prices. He is so out of touch with the people of Alabama.

10:16Folks are fed up. That's exactly what I've been talking about, exactly what I'm hearing. We hear it from one end of the state to the other. We've been in Mobile in South Alabama all last week. We heard it. But this week we're in North Alabama. And it is the same thing all over. Affordability is really hurting the people of Alabama. Seventy one percent of the people in Alabama, according to recent study, show that they are struggling with either housing, food, health care, you name it. They are struggling in this state. Well, in terms of what me, Tuberville just doesn't have a clue. In terms of what a state executive can do in a moment like this, you know, in neighboring Georgia, Brian Kemp today declared a state of emergency.

10:55He suspended the gas tax in the state. That's something you've advocated for as well. But in terms of what it does for the state of Alabama, that gas tax generated$724 million last year for Alabama. How long can the state go without that revenue? You know, look, it's not going into the general fund, though. The gas tax is earmarked for road construction and other projects. That money is not going into the general fund. It's not paying for corrections and other things. So I think we can go for a little bit. I called for that suspension of the gas tax back in the spring when Governor Kemp and the Georgia legislature did that.

11:33I called for it again the other day. Look, I think every governor in Alabama and elsewhere, every governor needs to be doing the things to try to keep people in check, to get their prices lowered. It may just be a small amount right now, but people are struggling. They're not getting used to this, and they've got to get the family budget reoriented because of these incredibly high gas prices. And you know what, Kalen? Donald Trump can do something about this if he just would do it. He could end this war. He could get these gas prices down. He could open this economy back up and things would get a lot better.

12:09I don't know how long it'll take, but it'll get better. People are fed up with him not taking any action except, you know, building monuments to himself up there, which are not helping the people in Alabama one bit. Doug Jones, thank you for joining us tonight. Appreciate your time. Thank you, Caitlin. And my political sources are former Obama senior policy advisor, CNN political commentator Ashley Allison, and former senior advisor to Senator Mitch McConnell, CNN senior political commentator Scott Jennings. And Ashley, you're listening to Doug Jones there. He says he thinks that Trump is coming because he views Alabama as a competitive race.

12:47I mean, that's a big question, of course, because it is a deeply red state, as you know. But what do you make of this as the president's campaign stop that he's making this week, going to Alabama? Well, I think there's a lot of states that are in play that might not have historically been, and Alabama could be one of them for the governor's race. But I actually think Trump is going to Alabama because other candidates don't want him in their states. And so you often see this when the elected official, the head of the party wants to get out, wants to campaign. They send them to a state that they might think is safe and really can't do any damage, and Alabama might be that state for them.

13:24So I think there is a twofold to this. You know Donald Trump is not going to sit by and idly watch because the show is always about him. So they have to send him somewhere. So they perhaps are sending them to a state that could feel a little more safe than a state like Texas or Michigan or Iowa. He says he's going to Iowa and Henson was there with him today, but also she was saying negative things about him last week. So there are a lot of states where they probably don't want the president to come. And that might be why Alabama is on that map. Scott, do you think that's it? That these people in tough races don't really want the president in their district when it's getting this close to November 3rd and his numbers are where they are?

14:05It'll depend on the state. It'll depend on the district. Some will, some won't. I lived through a tough midterm in 2006, and I remember George W. Bush was not welcome in some districts. But on the other hand, I recall we had a rally in Georgia and one in Florida and a few other places. So it you know, it'll be an assessment district by district and state by state. I was just glancing at the Cook Political Report about Alabama. It's in the solid Republican column for gubernatorial races right now. So I don't share Doug Jones's optimism that the president has decided this is a toss up election all of a sudden.

14:38I do think the people of Alabama will love to see Donald Trump. And the reality is, even though, you know, you go to a state or a district, it's a national election. And Donald Trump creates national news wherever he goes. And so it's not as though his words or his comments or his observations are going to be confined, you know, just to the borders of Alabama. It'll be reported in theory around the country. So I think I think sometimes we overblow these geographical choices. You don't really? Yeah. Come on, Scott. Really? Scott, really? I mean, you're saying like it doesn't matter where the president goes.

15:16Of course it matters. I'm just saying that if he goes to Alabama and makes a speech, do you think people in other states aren't going to see that? They're not going to see coverage of it. They're not going to see sound bites of it on social media or on cable news. Of course they are. So it's, you know, look, he is the centerpiece of the election, whether you like it or not, whether you're a Democrat or Republican or not. Democrats are running on Trump and Republicans need the president to motivate those voters who love him and have voted for him to turn out. But the nature of the way politics is covered in America right now, it's not like the days.

15:48You know, when you go somewhere and you say something, it's blasted around the world instantaneously. And so if he gives a speech in Alabama, I suspect people in other states will hear it too. Yeah, I don't think we're saying no one's going to hear it if, you know, only people in Mobile, Alabama are going to be able to watch the president's speech. Obviously, everyone will be able to watch it. But I think going there, having people turn out is the point in terms of advocating for those candidates but actually let me ask you about these ads that the white house has been putting out because initially they described it last week as just a public service announcement that was the ad where the president was decrying communism saying america will never be a communist country now we've got these other new two ads that the president is putting out they're still describing it as a public service announcement republicans list couple of them don't see it that way what did you make of this ashley well donald trump is not someone who plays by the cookie cutter letter of the law.

16:42And so from every legal assessment that I have seen on this network and other networks, it appears that this is against the law. And personally, as a taxpayer, I don't want the president using my tax dollars to run political ads. However, Donald Trump is doing these ads because his approval rating is very low and he is not on the ballot. And he is worried that the base, that 36 percent or so of people who still are with him might not show up in this midterm election. So that ad is not actually for me. That ad isn't even for Scott Jennings. That ad is for folks who only really showed up that are Republican voters that hope he can pull some of these Republican candidates across the finish line, even if he breaks the law while doing it.

17:31Scott, are you cool with these ads? I think a reasonable person could look at these and be mad about it. And I think a reasonable person could look at it and say, well, other presidents have also run PSAs. If I had offered any advice on it, it would have been PSAs, fine. I probably wouldn't have cut and pasted material from a previous campaign ad, which I've read that they may have done. So I think it's pretty standard practice for administrations to do PSAs. But I can see why somebody would raise objections if they thought the material was overtly political. Vote for Republicans. That was my question watching it.

18:08A PSA I think most people would think of is boil your water or there's a tornado coming or you need to prepare for this. I mean, what is the public service announcement in that ad that you saw, Scott? Well, the White House offered an assessment that it was making people feel good about America and trying to push back against ideologies that would defeat America. So, look, it's a perfectly reasonable message. Again, I think they pulled some of this from a previous campaign material. So, again, I think PSAs are probably a good thing. Government communicating with people is a good thing. My personal advice would be maybe not steal it from a previous campaign.

18:51OK, I'm still not sure what the public service announcement was. It's not, Caitlin. I mean, warning against communism sounds like a public service to me. We've got one whole political party that's fallen in love with it. Stop it. I think they need to be warned, Caitlin. Stop it. Okay, but that came as he had the red carpet rolled out for a communist leader and also met with someone that he describes as a communist in New York here and said pretty good things about Zoran Mamdani. Oh, you're admitting Mamdani is a communist? No, the president says he's a communist. Are you saying that we are not going to communicate with China?

19:25I mean, of course we're going to communicate with China. They're going to communicate with us. No, I didn't say that. Using taxpayer dollars for a political ad, kicking the press out because you don't like their coverage. Those are more communist-like behaviors than just calling people communists. On that note, for that public service announcement, thank you, Scott Jennings and Ashley Allison. President Trump also today responded to this alleged terror plot on a British base that was used by the United States. And he was asked whether or not he believes it's connected to Iran, what the president said, and why were those five suspects released on bail?

20:02My law enforcement sources will join me next.

20:12Hey, I'm Anderson Cooper. On my podcast, All There Is, we explore grief and loss in all its complexities. My guest is Lil Jon. He's a rapper, DJ, and producer known for hits like Get Low and Turn Down for What. In February 2026, his 27-year-old son Nathan went missing near Nathan's home in Georgia. Three days later, his body was found in a pond nearby. Lil Jon has a memoir that just came out called I Only Shout So You Can Hear Me. It takes time to heal. And I kept myself busy that I didn't let myself mourn. I needed to laugh again. I needed to be silly and interact with people and feel other people's energy and make people happy, too.

20:56We have to share so other people can see that they can get through it, too. Talking grief, building community. That's what the podcast is all about. This is all there is. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, host of the Chasing Life podcast. You may have noticed gambling doesn't require a casino anymore. You can just open up your phone. It's designed to keep us coming back or maybe never even leaving in the first place. We're going to talk to Dr. Timothy Fong, co-director of UCLA's gambling studies program. You're going to learn what your brain is really chasing when you place a bet.

21:34And also importantly, how to keep the game from playing you. Gambling addiction, gambling disorder is the hidden addiction. You can't smell it. You can't taste it. You can't see it. You can't have a urine drug test. Who are we talking about here, Professor? So who's the most likely demographic to be affected by this? Literally any single human on Earth. Listen to Chasing Life, streaming now, wherever you get your podcasts. Tonight, President Trump is criticizing the United Kingdom's release of the five men who were allegedly tied to a suspected terror plot against a U.K. airbase that is housing American troops.

22:10On the arrests in the U.K., there's five suspects that were arrested. It was just released on bail. What's your reaction to that? And is this connected to Iran? Might be, but I will tell you, I would have said, don't let them have bail. I'm surprised if they released them, I wouldn't have done that. Look, they've been very good. They worked with us very closely. We know everything about them. We would not have released them. So you said, might be, Iran might be? Can you elaborate on that? Well, I don't know. I'd rather not. I mean, I know the answer. I can be very specific, but I'd rather not say it.

22:44But I would not have released them. So far, there's no indication in public reporting that Iran had anything to do with the alleged plot. Obviously, we'll continue to follow it, given what the president implied there. What we do know is that five British nationals were arrested early yesterday, close to the Royal Air Force Fairford base in Western England, which American B-1 bombers have used to fly missions against Iran during this war. A local farmer said she came across the men in these white vans on Saturday night and reported it to the police. Aerial footage then on Sunday showed a bomb disposal robot roaming between the vans in the woods near that base.

23:24And later, our CNN teams nearby heard what sounded like two controlled detonations. UK counterterrorism police say that five suspects were initially detained for possession of explosives and on suspicion of preparation of a terrorist act. Now, that raised eyebrows because all five were released today under what officials described as stringent bail conditions. My sources tonight are CNN's chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, John Miller, and also the former FBI deputy director, Andrew McCabe. And John Miller, I mean, my first question when I saw the authorities in the UK put out that announcement today that they were being released on bail was how and why?

24:06And I wonder what you thought and what you believe is happening right now. Well, the Brits have different laws than we do. They can hold people on suspicion for 48 hours in a terrorism case. They can extend that to 14 days. We're not seeing that here. So it raises a couple of questions, which, number one, do we know it's a terrorism plot? What appeared to be explosives after all that examination and controlled detonation? did it turn out to be explosives or at least viable explosives? Or have we stumbled into, you know, three vans full of guys who were basically fuel robbers who came in the middle of a lot of intelligence about a terrorist plot and got caught up in it?

24:48All of the answers to that we don't know. What we do know is the focus is on Iran because they have the motive, the means, and basically it fits their recruitment tactics, which has been to use either their intelligence services, which is not what we're looking at here in all likelihood. These five guys seem to be from London and they're 23 to 25 years old. To use proxies like the Houthis or Hezbollah, but it doesn't look like that. But the new wrinkle is what the intelligence community is calling disposable agents. You recruit them online, you offer them money to do something. and if they succeed, it's a great bargain for the regime.

25:28It's terrorism on the cheap. And if they get caught, there's not much damage they can do in terms of giving information. They're looking hard at that while they try to sort through what do they really have here. Andrew McKay, what are your takeaways after hearing what John just said and also what we know so far? Yeah, I completely agree with John. The Brits have a very different system than ours. You don't have, you know, obviously in the United States, you can't get detained until an agent and a prosecutor have gone in front of a judge and convinced that judge that there's probable cause to believe that you've committed a crime.

26:03It doesn't work that way in the UK and particularly on terrorism cases. As John said, you can be picked up on suspicion and held for two days and that hold could continue all the way out as long as 14 days, as long as the Brits keep developing evidence that supports the suspicion. So they go back in front of a judge during that 14-day period and ask for a few more days because they've executed a search warrant and they've found some evidence or something like that. In this case, because the subjects were released so quickly, to me, that suggests that they don't have a lot of solid evidence to support the initial suspicion that led them to detain these young men.

26:47And they didn't really have a choice, right? The president is criticizing the Brits and saying he wouldn't have let them out on bail. It's a little bizarre to hear a president opining on bail matters. But nevertheless, this is how the UK system works. OK, I mean, if this is how the system works. One thing you have to point out, though, is that they're under stringent conditions with bail, meaning little or no access to the Internet, cell phones and probably under police surveillance even at that. Okay, so if they're under these conditions, what do we expect to happen next year? Well, I think, as Andy pointed out, they're going to be going through their computers.

27:29They're going to be going through their phones. They're going to be going through those vans. They're going to be going through forensics. And they're going to see, can they develop whatever it is that they're missing in this plot over that time? I mean, or eliminate it. Andrew McCabe, also on this, what the president was saying there about when he was asked if Iran is tied to all of this or connected to all of this, he said he could answer in specifics, but he didn't want to. How did you hear that answer? You know, Caitlin, to me, again, we're kind of guessing here, but the president making a reference to we know all about them.

28:09And he also said we've worked very closely with the Brits. It's been great to work with them on this. suggests to me that there has been a level of intelligence sharing between the United States and the UK on what likely began as an investigation conducted by the internal or domestic security service in the UK, which is MI5. So it's likely that the president has been, you know, has received briefings either from the CIA or the FBI about the Brit's concerns with these individuals. and based on what he's heard, he thinks they should have been detained for a longer period. But, you know, at the end of the day, suspicion's got to be met.

28:49It's got to meet some evidence standards, even in the UK, to keep people in jail. So it looks like they're not quite there yet. Andrew McCabe, John Miller will follow this closely. Thank you both for joining us with your expertise tonight. Up next, we're following this case here in New York, where prosecutors have reopened an investigation after a former Cornell University student has filed a disturbing lawsuit.

29:21Tonight, prosecutors in New York are reopening an investigation into alleged 2024 gang rape of a former Cornell University student. The local district attorney says the original investigation into members of the Chi-Fi fraternity resulted in no criminal charges. But now a grand jury will review the case after the unidentified woman filed a civil lawsuit this month claiming that the school did not do enough to protect her. CNN's Gloria Pashmino reports. New York prosecutors are relaunching an investigation into an alleged gang rape at Cornell University. The new review, after a former student identified as Jane Doe, filed a civil lawsuit claiming seven members of the Chi-5 fraternity drugged and sexually assaulted her in October 2024.

30:11While no criminal charges were filed then, Tompkins County District Attorney Matthew Van Houten says he will now present new evidence to a grand jury. Van Houten told CNN his office didn't bring charges in 2024 because Jane Doe's initial statement, and, quote, did not allege that she was drugged against her will or gang raped. On the contrary, Jane Doe's statement described her participation in drug use and sexual conduct as voluntary, conscious, and consensual. His office released only partial statements from her original 2024 statement. Van Houten told CNN his office does not independently investigate crimes.

30:51We rely on the police to investigate those crimes. and the statement, without blaming her, she told the police candidly what she remembered and maybe she remembers more now and if she does, then we want to put that in front of the grand jury. The civil lawsuit also states that after arriving at the frat house, she was visibly intoxicated and that she had consumed about 10 standard drinks within the past three hours. The lawsuit also includes a screenshot of a group chat where other fraternity members were allegedly invited to join the assault. The DA said the screenshot included in the complaint was not provided to his office at the time.

31:35The text messages were completely vulgar and disgusting, but they had nothing to do with her consent. CNN has reached out to Cornell University police for comment. It's unclear what other evidence police may have collected. According to the civil complaint, Cornell expelled two of the seven accused fraternity members, while the others received lesser punishments, including suspensions and written assignments. The frat was also barred from campus. In a statement, Cornell University said, quote, None of the individuals charged were offered the opportunity to write essays as a sole consequence of their involvement.

32:13The complainant and respondents had the opportunity to testify and present evidence. At its conclusion, the hearing panel issued a range of sanctions, which included expulsions and suspensions from Cornell. Ultimately, her attorney says she wants accountability. Her life has been destroyed. She's a woman who comes from a small town. She was not somebody who was a legacy or somebody who was from a wealthy family. This was her dream, and it was taken away from her at a young age in just a horrific fashion. Gloria Pasmino, CNN, New York. And as we continue to cover this story here at CNN, we also want to remind people who might be dealing with a similar crisis that there are resources for help.

33:02You can reach them anytime at rainwith2ins.org or call the number that you see here on your screen. Up next, it has been almost 30 years since Princess Diana's tragic death. Her brother, Charles Spencer, is speaking out for the first time. He's my next source tonight with his very close and personal memories of his sister, as well as explosive new details about what Prince Charles, now King Charles, said to him after her death.

33:39It's been 45 years since this iconic moment when then Lady Diana Spencer ascended the steps of St. Paul's Cathedral with a 25-foot train trailing behind her and one of the most watched moments in television history. Princess Diana went on to transform Britain's royal family with her style and her warmth on the world stage, as well as her humanitarian work. I'm not a political figure. I am a humanitarian figure and always have been and always will be. But today, an entire generation will never quite know the force that Princess Diana was. She died in a car accident in 1997 after being hounded by the paparazzi, a tragedy that her brother Charles Spencer noted as he gave her eulogy.

34:27It is a point to remember that of all the ironies about Diana, perhaps the greatest was this. A girl given the name of the ancient goddess of hunting was, in the end, the most hunted person of the modern age. Now, 29 years after her death, Charles Spencer, a historian and author of nine nonfiction books, is speaking out for the first time about her life and their childhood in his new book, Swan Song, Diana, My Sister. And Charles Spencer is here with me now. And thank you for being here. It's my pleasure. Your eulogy was so compelling. And I mean, after you delivered it, there was a massive round of applause, not just inside, but also among those watching outside.

35:12As you said, it wasn't just your family, but also the entire United Kingdom, the entire world that was grieving her. And you actually write in your book about the rehearsal for your sister's funeral that you had that eulogy in your pocket. But as you went up to the pulpit to rehearse, you said that you saw figures emerging from the abbey's shadows. And you write, oh, my God, about what you believe for palace spies. I thought they're here to check what I'm going to say. So you actually said you forgot your eulogy. I played the upper-class idiot and pretended I'd left it at home because I realized that they were trying to Vet perhaps veto what I said they didn't know what I was gonna say and I just realized I had to keep that tight So I just said oh don't worry.

35:53You want a microphone check I'll just read out of this hymn book and I read one line They went enough so they were there to hear what I was gonna say and did you actually think that they would have Stopped you from saying that I think so I think there would have been an excuse that maybe time's too short in the service and could you trim it a bit? And I think there would have been red pens all over it. So I was very conscious that I hadn't written something intentionally inflammatory, but I knew I had to say those words on Diana's behalf. Why did you know that? Know that? That you needed to say that.

36:29Well, I didn't. I'd never given a eulogy before. And it made me think, what is my task here? And my task, I felt, was very much to speak for Diana when she no longer had a voice. You write in the book about, you know, to everyone else she was Princess Diana, but you had nicknames for one another. To you, she was Dutch, and to her, you were Carlos. Where did those nicknames come from? Dutch, I do remember. My stepfather thought she had a very refined air as a young girl and called her the Duchess, so we trimmed it down a bit. Carlos, I have no idea how that happened. There's nothing obviously Hispanic about me, but it was just something, it was just a nickname.

37:10You write about how you always get asked, you know, what was it like to grow up with Diana as your sister? And I loved what you said that you wrote that for you it's, you know, what would it be like to not grow up with her as a sister? Yes. I mean, it is extraordinary to other people that you have such a mundane relationship as brother-sister, I guess. And people still say that to me today. What was it like? I had no other experience. You know, we grew up together. We had two other sisters who were much older than us. We had a brother who died in the middle of our family on the day he was born.

37:42So it was two and two. So that's who I grew up with. In the book, you talk about what it was like after her death. And you're pretty unsparing in your writing about King Charles. And you said that you described him as, quote, giddily elated the night after her death and said that he sounded like a lottery winner. Yes. So I've only ever had two telephone conversations with the then Prince Charles. And the first was one of a huge range of people calling me out of their own shock. The day Diana died, the morning after she was declared dead. And his tone was different. And people say, well, what do you think?

38:22I don't know what he was thinking, but it was just jarringly different to everyone else's tone on that day. In terms of he didn't seem sad to you? No, well, he seemed more upbeat than I would have expected. He was relaying to me how he had told William and Harry earlier that morning about their mother's death. It just seemed different. I mean, the images from her funeral still to this day are striking to look at. And to see her two sons there. and you write about that moment that you did not believe that they should be part of the funeral procession. And then Prince Charles argued that they should.

39:02And the two of you were going back and forth on it. And you said that Prince Charles hissed, rest assured, we'll forget her soon enough. He really said that to you? He genuinely said that. I call it those five words. And I told people at the time about it, close to me. It was so shocking. and it stemmed from our severe disagreement about whether William and Harry should, at age 15 and 12, have to walk in front of the world behind their mother's coffin. I thought it was an absurd idea and really not right and he saw things very differently and we had a difference of opinion. I kept very calm and we all know he has a temper.

39:43You may remember the scene where he loses his temper with a fountain pen when he's signing a document when he became king it was probably one of those moments for him. But for me as a grieving brother, it was very shocking. I mean, it would be devastating to hear that as a grieving brother who's just lost your sister. It was severely surprising to the point where I said, I cannot believe you said that, and hung up on him. And you haven't spoken to him since? Well, I have at Family Things. And even actually just before the funeral, I had to sit with him before we processed behind Diana's coffin.

40:17So, I mean, you can still be civil face to face, but those are words you don't forget. What's your relationship with William and Harry like now? Well, it's pretty consistent in that I've always just been an uncle. And I think when you lose someone in your family and they have children, you sort of are there for them. But I'm very realistic. They're men in their 40s now. I'm there if needed. It's public record that Harry came to stay with me with his family in July. So if I'm needed, I'm there, but I'm not in anyone's way. The palace responded, which they don't often do, to your book, which caught a lot of people by surprise.

40:56A lot of people didn't know you were writing this book. You said including both of them. And they said, while we do not comment on books as a matter of principle, His Majesty is mindful that the pain of fraternal grief can cloud reason, affect judgment, and color memory in ways others do not recognize even many years after such a loss. What's your response to that? Well, two things jumped out at me. One was there's no denial that he said it. And the second one was that's a clear case of gaslighting. But I would like to say, I know this interview is quite short. You're rightly concentrating on this.

41:29The point of my book is a celebration of Diana and her unique abilities to connect with people which you touched on. And I get that this is interesting about the king, et cetera. But I wouldn't want that to overshadow the point of this book, which is really positive about Diana. Well, I loved what you said in the book, because to the point that we made in the introduction about, there's so many people now that never got to see what she was like in her prime and in her heyday. And in this moment of her humanitarian work and all of these things that she did, and I know you talked about moments where she could evade the paparazzi during certain humanitarian work moments, And that was a prideful moment for her where she got to do that privately.

42:12And one thing you said about writing the book, I would be delighted if those too young to remember her in her heyday feel after reading this, that they get who she really was. This one-off dynamic character full of love and charisma. Who gave life a hell of a go. I think that's really the lesson here. So if I may say, I'm 62 and I know your age, but someone your age and younger, she's a figure of history. and it's easy to reconnect people of my generation with Diana because they remember her. Half my job in this book is bringing her alive for people under 40 because they still have some connection with her, but it's through maybe a glamorous photograph or the tragedy of the circumstance of her death.

42:55I want to bring in this book the whole life alive, this extraordinary life that I witnessed up close. But yes, it's a brother's perspective, but I want to bring a sort of global celebration to this fabulous woman who happened to be my sister. What was it like for you to write this now? It was quite cathartic. I mean, I've written an earlier volume of memoirs, and then this was the natural successor for me. 29 years since Diana died, and there's a lot of people coming to me and saying, will you be part of a documentary for her 30th? And I thought, well, actually, I think it's time for me just to write this down.

43:30while I still have my mind and my memories. And I just think it was very easy to write. I have all sorts of neurodivergence, which makes the process of writing quite a complicated thing. This really flowed because it was ready to hatch, I guess. Well, and one through line is talking about the paparazzi's treatment of her. And you also made that clear in your eulogy, how much that affected her and the impact it had on her. How do you see that now, 29 years later? Because, I mean, Harry and Meghan, that's obviously been a huge focus for them and something that they've been very outspoken about this much later.

44:11Well, I don't know how the paparazzi are in California, for instance. In London, I think it's a lot easier. You wouldn't even believe the expressions that the paparazzi were throwing at Diana in the street after she cut with the royal family. the worst words in the English language, just to get her to look shocked. And then they would sell that photograph and say, you know, Diana's losing her mind. But she was just reacting like a human would to being called appalling things. I don't think that happens anymore in London. So are you more hopeful about that in terms of where you see things now? I am, as in the little world I know, which is mainly European, and also the general conduct of the press.

44:51You know, even the worst editors at the time who were paying the paparazzi to pursue Diana, even into that final tunnel in Paris, they learned something years later. And some of them have actually confessed they know they had a hand in her death. Now, that's quite a big thing to live with. And I think it did change the behavior. And it's not as bad now. Yeah. Charles Spencer, the book is remarkable. And it is a great look at her life and your childhood together. So thank you for joining us to talk about it. It's a great pleasure. Thank you. Much appreciated. Thank you. And the book Swan Song, Diana, My Sister, is out now.

45:27Thank you so much for joining us here tonight on The Source. CNN Newsnight with Abby Phillips starts after a quick break.

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