White House Bars CNN from Covering Trump’s Travel Tomorrow

0:00Every day, animals across the country face abuse and neglect. And every day, the ASPCA shows up to rescue animals in crisis. But they can't do it alone. Visit ASPCA.org slash need. Become a donor today to provide the care and shelter these animals urgently need. And for a limited time, the ASPCA will send you a free gift as a special thank you. Visit ASPCA.org slash need. We are live from the Sam's Club Holiday Club Parade. Oh, wait, are those guys? Just snoozing. It's the Food Coma Club. They might lose count of their helpings of turkey, but never their spending. Oh, you hear that? It's the Cool Ants Club in their natural habitat of giving the trendiest gifts.

0:49It's the Deal Hunters Club. No sudden movements. They smell value a mile away. Whatever holiday club you're in, Sam's Club helps you make the most of your holidays. Come join us. Sam's Club.

1:03Breaking news tonight. The White House has just barred CNN from covering President Trump on behalf of major television networks as he travels to Tennessee. I'm Jim Sciutto, in for Caitlin Collins, and this is The Source.

1:38As we come on the air tonight, we do have breaking news that once again involves this network. CNN has been told that the White House is once again moving to bar our journalists from covering the president as part of the White House television press pool. It was just this morning following a ruling from federal judge that CNN was allowed to resume our pool coverage duties. It's a setup designed to document history, and it's been in place for many decades under presidents both Democratic and Republican. But this president alone appears intent on trashing that tradition because of news coverage he does not like.

2:15I'm joined now by CNN senior legal analyst Ellie Honig and CNN chief media analyst Brian Stelter. Ellie, I want to begin with you. A federal judge just restored CNN's access to the White House. Under that order, can the administration do this? Well, Jim, tonight's action clearly violates the spirit of the judge's order. I suppose it's a bit of an open question whether it violates the technical letter. So when the judge's order came down at 1 a.m. on Tuesday morning, Wednesday night into Thursday morning, here's what the judge's order said. It ordered the White House to, quote, immediately return, reinstate, and restore the White House hard pass press credentials to CNN.

2:57So I guess the question, if you're going to be the White House and try to split hairs here, is to say, well, letting someone be the pool reporter is different from giving them their White House hard pass back. Now, that's a strained argument. I would not want to go into a federal court and make that argument in front of a federal judge. So one of two things is going to happen here, Jim. if CNN lawyers go in there and challenge this. Either the judge will say, this is already within my ruling. When I ruled earlier this week, I meant to include this and you're violating it. Or if the judge says, okay, technically denying us the pool is outside of my order, then we're back to square one.

3:36And then the exact same arguments that already were made are going to apply again. Specifically, there was no due process around this, which was the basis for the judge's original ruling and it violates the first amendment. So it's probably going to require CNN's lawyers to go back to court to enforce this. But I think it clearly is against, at a minimum, the spirit and probably the letter of the judge's order the other day, too. OK, Brian, help explain the distinction here for folks at home who might not know how a pool operates. What does it mean for CNN to be on the grounds of the White House but not carrying out pool duties?

4:09Right. The pool is the primary way that Americans know what the president is doing and saying. There are several different pools. There's a print pool with news reporters from the AP and Reuters and the New York Times. There's a radio pool. There's a still photography pool. Trump lights lots of photographers that could be around him every day. So he lets in five different outlets for photos. But then we're talking primarily here about the TV pool. And that is the responsibility shared by the five major networks in the U.S. It used to be four until CNN actually sued. Ted Turner did this in the early 1980s to get CNN added.

4:42Actually, it was three. Then it was CNN. With four, then it was Fox News. There's five major networks that are now responsible. They take turns. It's in alphabetical order. It's very simple. A, C, you know, goes through the list. So tomorrow is CNN's turn. This is something that is very cut and dry. And the TV pool is the primary way that people around the world see the president. Because the TV pool spends a lot of money getting those live shots ready and providing feeds to everybody else. From local TV stations to the New York Times to networks all around the world. So the TV pool is what the White House is trying to break right now.

5:12They're trying to break the system. And I think they're probably trying to shatter the solidarity that we saw this week as the five major networks banded together. It seems to me they are trying to test the limits, get away with as much as they possibly can. And this is exactly what Ted Boutros predicted the other day. He's the outside counsel for CNN, MS and Politico. He predicted there would be more shenanigans. And that's exactly what we're seeing now, Jim. We're seeing shenanigans. Listen, by the way, to your point, I mean, those networks, despite differences in editorial positions, etc., They play nicely in this space, and that brings images of historical events to viewers at home.

5:47So, Ellie, to Brian's point here, the lawyer for CNN commented on this earlier. I want to play his thinking on it and get your thoughts. We believe that is covered by the temporary restraining order. We raised this very issue in our motion, and we asked the judge to issue an order to grant our motion, restoring the access to CNN and its reporters that it had before this ban was imposed. So we think that that restoration of access means back into the pool. So to Boutros's point there, this is not going to be the first time the judge heard about the pool as part of this argument, Ellie Honig. Do you expect the judge to agree with him?

6:32I do. You know, judges do not like it when a party parses their words and plays fast and loose with their commands. And so as Mr. Boutro said there, it was made clear that CNN's argument, which the judge agreed with, is there's been no due process and you can't kick us out of the White House. And yes, you have to restore the hard pass that goes with covering the White House. And as Brian just laid out, the pull is sort of inseparable from that. It's a little bit of a different function. But if you're going to represent the White House and be a DOJ lawyer and go in there to the judge and say, yeah, judge, I know we read your order where you said CNN has to be restored access and their hard pass, but we don't have to let them cover us as the pool.

7:13Boy, I don't know if that argument's going to fly in court, but I think what our lawyers, don't be surprised, Jim, if we see later tonight, first thing tomorrow morning, if CNN's lawyers are back in court saying, judge, we have a, they seem to disagree with us about what your words mean. and we need a clarification here quickly. Brian, I wonder, you mentioned the solidarity among the networks when they refused to take part in pool duties. Until CNN was restored, do they plan to continue suspending the pool because of this decision tonight? Because this came in in the last 15 minutes, we don't have an answer to that yet.

7:44I'm very curious to find out because this was an unusual and extraordinary show of solidarity. You know, you think back to 2025 when the Associated Press went through something somewhat similar. Trump tried to kick the AP out of the Oval Office and Air Force One. There was not the show of solidarity that, in retrospect, I wish we had seen from the American news media. This time around, there has been. It was almost this week as if a ban of one was treated like a ban of everyone. It's relatively easy, though, to do that for a few days. It might be harder to do that for weeks or months at a time.

8:14So I can't venture a guess right now whether we will continue to see that happening. But I do know this, Jim, much bigger picture here. We're talking about a president trying to control coverage, trying to pick and choose who's allowed near him, allowed to ask him questions and allowed to hold him accountable. The president just spent two days with an autocratic leader of China who doesn't allow a free press in his country. And Trump is showing that's what he would like to have. He'd like that same power. He'd like that same propaganda. But Americans do not want that. Polls are very clear. Americans love their First Amendment rights, even though they're often disappointed in the media.

8:45Americans also, in polling, majority of Americans say they feel those free speech First Amendment rights eroding in this country. And it's understandable why they feel that way. There have been dozens of rulings by federal judges finding Trump administration infringements on free speech and freedom of the press. And right now we're witnessing a major one unfolding tonight. And by the way, by conservative and liberal judges, judges appointed by Republicans and Democrats, virtually united on that principle. Brian Stelter, Ellie Honig, thanks so much to both of you. I do want to go back to CNN's Elena Treen, who is at the White House.

9:17Elena, how is the administration explaining this or trying to explain this? Well, so far we haven't had any response yet. I did, Jim, reach out to the White House for a comment about this and about their decision to once again bar us from our pool duties. And obviously Brian laid out what exactly that entails. So we'll see. But this was, I think, a bit surprising in some senses, given that today we did see CNN allowed back into the pool. Our colleagues were able, our cameramen, one of our producers here at the White House, was able to go with the president to the National Archives for pool duty there.

9:51And I should note, it wasn't pool duty here specifically at the White House. It was at the National Archives, but it was run by this White House. So a difference there. And obviously, I'm still giving this report. and I'm still speaking to you from here inside the White House. There hasn't, as far as I know, been any difference today in actual access. I was able to access the White House just fine to scan my badge, as I typically would have done prior to the president announcing that ban. To come in here, I haven't heard anything yet about needing to leave the premises. So it does appear that this is still specifically about the pool duties and our ability to cover the president, cover as every moves, be the one representing all of the networks, being that source, as Brian explained, where most people, when they watch the president or see footage of him, be the ones who are actually delivering that to them.

10:40And so it's unclear what happens from here. And I will reiterate something we heard Ellie and Brian say, which is that our outside lawyer, who's representing not just us, but also MS Now and Politico, did say earlier today that he believed that the judge's order would apply to the pool as well. So unclear what this distinction that the White House is actually making and whether or not it'll actually be held up in court. No question. By the way, when they went to the archives today, what did they look at? They looked at the Constitution, where there is some mention of freedom of the press. Elena Trin at the White House, thanks so much.

11:12Coming up next, as the White House bars CNN from flying on Air Force One with the president tomorrow, we'll look at how we got here with Caitlin's behind the scenes look at the past week.

11:31The Secret Society of Semi-Homemade. Listen up. Sam's Club has pre-made dishes for a Thanksgiving feast that's ready in two hours, all while tasting suspiciously homemade. Come join us. Sam's Club. Individual oven times may vary. This holiday, all plans, even unlimited, are just$15 a month. A holiday deal this good obviously deserves an enormously expensive holiday song, like All I Want. Right. Okay, we can afford that. You know what? Forget the music budget. We're going to stick with whatever's in the public domain. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for 12-month plan required.

12:09$15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. New customer offer for initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms. We are covering breaking news that, once again, not by our choice, involves CNN. The White House is bowing our journalists from flying on Air Force One tomorrow. CNN was scheduled to be the TV pool on the president's trip to Tennessee. This comes after a week in which the president's attempts to restrict the free press overshadowed both his address to the United Nations and most of that three-day state visit by Chinese leader Xi Jinping.

12:44And to get a sense of just how unusual this week has been, we're taking you on a look behind the scenes with Caitlin. I'm surprised that CNN is here covering me. The United Nations allowed us in, sir. You should not be here covering me. We're allowed here.

13:13Effective today, the TV pool will not be covering the events designated as pool coverage of the president. We've never seen anything like this before. When I'm in the Oval Office asking the president questions, I'm not just there on behalf of CNN. I'm there on behalf of the entire TV pool. Instead of us showing up at the White House on our assigned time today to travel with the president to New York, we're blocked.

13:45We've never seen something in modern history where outright the White House has tried to ban outlets and reporters from accessing the White House grounds and going into the Oval Office in the manner that the president is doing right now. We're live tonight from the United Nations, where President Trump is set to hold major meetings with world leaders as he wages his own battle against the free press. How do you think those world leaders see the president's ban of three outlets that are covering him because he doesn't like their coverage? We have a First Amendment. You're right for free speech, but what you don't have an inherent right to is to have access to any government institution that you want.

14:19What's your reaction to the president banning these three outlets? This is just a critical core part of the rule of law and they are absolutely ignoring it. If you want better coverage, do better things.

14:341, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. President Zelensky, we're standing right here where all the world leaders are coming in to the United Nations General Assembly ahead of President Trump's speech. Everyone will be looking to see what he says, what his message is to the other Gulf leaders that are here meeting with President Trump as they are slated to do when it comes to the war. Two-thirds of Americans don't think the U.S. is winning the war with Iran. When will it end? It's an honor to be here. I'm surprised that CNN is here covering me. The United Nations allowed us in, sir. You should not be here covering me.

15:06You said you weren't going to cover me. You shouldn't be covering me. Two-thirds of Americans don't think that the U.S. is winning the war with Iran. When will it end? We're making a lot of progress. Our country is doing really, really well. I think one of the standout moments as I was listening to the president's speech was talking about what he believes is the choice that he's facing, which is to annihilate Iran, as he put it, or to make a deal with them. Stand by. First of all, I just want to say the way the president disrespected you should outrage all Americans. It's been this unifying moment where you see press from every background all condemning what this president is doing with the press.

15:42He laid out a pretty dire circumstance for Iran. This level of crass cruelty is clearly indicative of his weakness and his inability to get himself out of the trap that he walked willingly into.

16:01This highly anticipated visit is finally happening. Why is President Trump treating Xi Jinping with such apparent deference? You're seeing the president really do an about face on that and changing his strategy of how he approaches Xi Jinping and doing so in a much friendlier way. The president going all the way out to the airport to greet a world leader, something that typically U.S. presidents do not do. A U.S. president actually hasn't welcomed a head of state on the tarmac at Andrews since 1962 when JFK went to meet the British prime minister. What tone do you think this sets for this visit?

16:32I think this is the president really saying to the leader of China, I just want to just honor you in every way I possibly can. Donald Trump treats Russia and China like friends to be cultivated.

16:49Our colleagues were finally allowed back onto the White House complex.

17:03We are back here on the White House grounds after that court order that came out overnight. This has been something that's been going on as the Chinese leader is here in Washington, and a lot of the state visit has already been underway. And so we're waiting to see what tonight looks like. This is a moment that typically would be broadcast essentially everywhere, certainly over the five major TV networks. Can you just kind of walk us through exactly what happened when you arrived here this morning? At 6.10 a.m., I arrived where we go to the Secret Service checkpoint. I was turned away. We were able to get back into White House grounds right around noon.

17:37We came straight here, did our live shot. I turned around and there was this enormous audience that had gathered for me. It really symbolized the way that the White House press corps has come together in support of journalism and a free press. I'm joined now by former Obama campaign advisor Amisha Cross and Republican strategist Malik Abdul. Good to have you both on here tonight. So Malik, a judge told the Trump administration, welcome the reporters back in, including CNN, and now looks like they're attempting another by defend it or or can you defend it well this isn't something that anyone really should be defending because you know we really should be talking about the midterms the midterm strategy today and unfortunately we have to talk about this and there is is the media i think overwhelmingly biased against donald trump yes i believe that they've been that since 2016 so i don't expect any fairness across the board when it comes to Donald Trump, but I wrote an article and that article was in Newsweek and it was titled, you know, what's left of Trump's legacy if he burns it all down.

18:39And when I talk about these type of fights where he just considers them existential fights over and over again and distracts us from a message. And so what Donald Trump has done, unfortunately, is that he's turned inward. He does things that appeals to MAGA and not the larger 77 million voters who supported him. And that's why you're seeing now some hemorrhaging in that support, whether that's on the podcast bro side or men or youth voters. It's not something that we can defend. Amisha, your response to this? I think that it's radical. This is a president who has challenged the press and press coverage and access for years now.

19:15He tried in 2016. We have seen him, you know, call the press the enemy of the people. And at this point, he is somebody who has gone out of his way to not only promote authoritarian ideals, but to also also control the press and how the press covers him. He only wants favorable, favorable press. He wants to essentially have state run media. That's why we see Mike Lindell's whatever his organization is called. In addition to Real America News. I don't know what fake America is. I think all of us. Real America voice. Real America voice. Either way, these fly by night, non legitimate places. It is very frustrating to see that he continues to do this irrespective of court orders, irrespective to acknowledging that it is wrong.

19:54We all know that it's wrong. The people on the right know that it's wrong. I thought it was very interesting and I applauded them at the time for Fox News to join in when CNN was originally pushed out. And I think that at this point, the president just doesn't want to take a loss. He is somebody who does not want to have egg on his face at any given time and wants to show his people that he is still fighting. even though time after time, a lot of those people have already abandoned the man. Yeah. I mean, you said the president's not going to get fair coverage. The thing is, the president bristles not just when a CNN or an MSNOW covers him critically, when Fox News does, right?

20:26Is it that the president wants fair coverage or the president wants fawning coverage? I don't think the president, well, no president wants any negative coverage at all. And so I do believe in the president's case, he's very sensitive to this type of coverage. But I think that he has to understand that media does have a role. Like here, me being here on CNN, I actually could be talking about a lot of the things that the administration had been doing. We could be talking about the Xi Jinping visit. We could be talking about a lot of those things, but unfortunately, and Republicans will look at this and say that CNN is talking about this.

20:59Well, we're talking about it because Donald Trump actually interrupted the news cycle once again, and so we're here. And oddly enough, we were not, I mean, we were talking about it, but we weren't showing images of his grand state visit with the Chinese leader, which President Trump wanted, right? He loves those moments, right? He loves those, but, you know, because the media banded together, he didn't get that moment, or at least not as much as he expected. He didn't get that moment, but I also think that he wanted to also shift the news. I mean, a lot of people were looking at the moment from the images that they did get, and this was a president who was, you know, taking Xi Jinping to make fun of the Joe Biden auto pin photo.

21:34Like, at the end of the day, there has to be a recognition that certain things are below the respectability of that office. And when you have a foreign leader, one who is in some ways an adversary, especially when we're talking about our economy, if you're willing to do that, to basically make fun of America to someone who is not American, I think that that's just sad. I think that it is below that office, but this president, there is no low that is too low. The bottom is hill. Listen, someone like myself, I've covered China a lot to see Chinese state media having more freedom than American media would particularly stood out to me.

22:07Amisha, Malik, great to have you on tonight. Thanks so much for joining. Coming up next, as the Chinese leader heads home, what exactly was accomplished by all this? My congressional source tonight leads a key committee on China.

22:25The secret society of semi-homemade? Listen up. Sam's Club has pre-made dishes for a Thanksgiving feast that's ready in two hours, all while tasting suspiciously homemade. Come join us. Sam's Club. Individual oven times may vary. We've had a tremendous visit from two spectacular people and we've really enjoyed it. I think we've made tremendous strides. We've made great strides. Very positive for both countries. That was President Trump capping off a whirlwind three-day summit with Chinese leader Xi Jinping, bringing an end to a lavishly warm reception between the leaders of two global superpowers, though with no breakthroughs, that a sizable chunk of the American people did not see.

23:13It comes as the White House tonight is barring CNN journalists from flying on Air Force One tomorrow in what is the Trump administration's latest salvo against CNN and the White House press corps. CNN was scheduled to be the TV pool on the president's trip to Tennessee. And while the president's decision to ban CNN and other media outlets from the White House was struck down in court yesterday, the consequence is neither the president nor she received the media coverage they had hoped for. With CNN back in the TV pool for today, before the White House's decision tonight to bar CNN once again, there were a lot of questions about what we've seen in the last 72 hours.

23:56Mr. President, did you call on President Xi to stop buying oil from Iran? Any new bar wheels are alive. Mr. President, why are you banning media outlets? Why should you... Thank you very much. Should you... No answers to those questions there. I spoke to Republican Congressman John Molinar of Michigan earlier tonight before the White House's decision to bar CNN's travel on Air Force One tomorrow. He is the chair of the Select Committee on China. The literal red carpet treatment for the Chinese leader here, is it clear to you what exactly the U.S. gained from this summit with Xi? Well, I think it's important that President Trump showed respect to President Xi as well as to the Chinese people.

24:44He's someone who is a gracious host and he likes to do things in a big way. And I think we all know that. I think it's important to have a cordial relationship when it comes to discussing the challenging issues between our two countries, and I believe those issues were addressed. President Xi came in with the idea of trying to change course and change the president's mind on Taiwan. It's clear that there's the status quo and nothing's changed there. Also, President Xi wanted to try and make sure that we slow down our AI development. No changes there. And so I think it was a victory for President Trump to, again, work at this relationship so that if there is some kind of an emergency, they actually have a relationship to talk to each other.

25:34Well, no one would certainly begrudge an attempt at connection at the highest levels, right, between the leaders of the two countries. But there was another delay in an issue I know that you follow closely, which is this latest arms package to Taiwan. Taiwan's top envoy has said to me that he hopes Trump will approve the aid as quickly as possible, but it hasn't happened. Is that a concession in your view? No, I don't believe it is. In fact, if anything, President Trump has supplied more munitions, more arms to Taiwan than any other president in history. So I think his record is very clear. My hope is that we will continue to deliver on the promises that we've made to Taiwan.

26:16It's important that they can defend themselves and that we deter China's aggression across the Taiwan Strait, throughout the South China Sea. And President Trump's been building closer relationships with our allies like Japan, the Philippines, and making sure there's a united approach on that. When you speak about treatment of allies, there are some who watch the president's very warm reception for the Chinese leader, leader of an authoritarian state, a strategic competitor with the U.S., and contrast that with the way he has treated many of America's closest treaty allies, Canada among them, but also in Europe.

26:56Does that make sense? Does that make sense to you? And how does that help U.S. national security interests if it is attacking allies but praising adversaries? Well, I think it's important that we build strong relationships with our allies. We're clearly negotiating a new agreement with Canada and Mexico. The USMCA needs to be updated. You know, Canada has not followed through on some of their commitments to their defense, as well as purchases of, you know, dairy products. They're also bringing in Chinese vehicles. You know, Mexico, we've wanted them to have a stronger action against the cartels, and they're starting to follow through on that.

27:40In the case of the allies in Europe, President Trump has been advocating for them to increase their defense spending. They're starting to do that. And I think there's been progress. Now, it's a different style than many other leaders have had over the years, but you can't argue with the fact that NATO funding our allies is on the increase. But I do agree with you. I think it's very important that we strengthen these relationships, especially with Europe, with Canada, and with Mexico. I want to ask you about a particular story CNN has reported, multiple sources telling CNN that satellite images and intelligence provided by China to Iran have helped Iran threaten ships in the Strait of Hormuz.

28:22And this is crucial, launch precision strikes against U.S. military bases in the Middle East. We didn't hear about that from the president this weekend. Should the president publicly condemn such support? You know, I think there are different ways to communicate the fact that that is unacceptable. And I know the administration is communicating that to China. But you have to recognize, you know, China is enabling Russia. They're enabling Iran. They're supplying what is dual-use materials. And in this most recent instance, something that could target our men and women in the military. And so unacceptable.

29:01And there are ways to communicate it through various channels that that is unacceptable. I believe that's happening. You and your committee have a long track record of calling out China for some some of its worst behaviors and violations of human rights, etc. That's right. And it's in the name of your committee, Select Committee on Strategic Competition between the U.S. and the Chinese Communist Party. Were you at least uncomfortable to see that for this event, this meeting between these two leaders, the Chinese state media, which is, you know, is controlled effectively by the Chinese Communist Party, had freer access than U.S.

29:40news outlets. Did that make sense to you? Well, I think, first of all, you know, the idea that China is, you know, they're going to bring their cadre of people and basically they are an armed or a, you know, extension of the CCP. So we know that. I do think freedom of the press is very important. I was glad that President Trump brought Xi Jinping to see the Declaration of Independence in some of our founding documents because, you know, the freedoms that we enjoy, you know, When you consider China has the great firewall, they imprison people for going to church, they put people like Jimmy Lai in prison, clearly there's a record of violating these basic fundamental rights.

30:27But yes, my hope is that we can get to a point where we do continue to have open communications and respect. I think the media plays an important role in our lives. There are also responsibilities that go with that in terms of, you know, how things are covered in terms of a fair and accurate way. And, of course, every president has their own view on how they're being treated. And we've seen, you know, President Biden ban people. You know, President Obama complained a lot. In fact, I think there was a Fox News reporter who was investigated or banned. So, you know, this is something that hopefully we will get back to the days of respect for the office of the president in communicating with the media.

31:13And so the American people remain informed and involved in the process. Well, we appreciate you taking the hard questions tonight yourself. Congressman John Molinar, thanks so much for joining. Thank you. Coming up next, Caitlin talks to music legend John Mellencamp about his recent tour and the stories behind his greatest hits. All ahead of his performance this weekend at Farm Aid.

31:45The Secret Society of Semi-Homemade? Listen up. Sam's Club has pre-made dishes for a Thanksgiving feast that's ready in two hours. All while tasting suspiciously homemade. Come join us. Sam's Club. Individual oven times may vary. This holiday, all plans, even unlimited, are just$15 a month. A holiday deal this good obviously deserves an enormously expensive holiday song, like All I Want. Right. Okay, we can afford that. You know what? Forget the music budget. We're going to stick with whatever's in the public domain. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for a 12-month plan required.

32:23$15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. New customer offer for initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms. Tomorrow night, CNN is bringing the annual Farm Aid Festival to viewers around the country. Started in 1985 by Willie Nelson, Neil Young and John Mellencamp, its mission was to raise awareness about the loss of family farms and raise money to support those farmers. Ahead of the festival, Caitlin sat down with John Mellencamp to talk about the concert's 41st year. Plus, the stories behind his hits and his new songbook out next week.

33:02John Mellencamp hasn't played some of his greatest hits in decades. But that all changed on tour this summer as he traveled the country and played for crowds, Jack and Diane, Pink Houses, and yes, Hurt So Good. So you just finished your tour. Right. How do you think it went? I was worried about the whole thing because it was outside. I don't like playing outside. Yeah. And I told my manager I don't want to do three shows in a row. And there was a section where I was doing three shows in a row. Plus there was a f***ing heat wave. I had all these anticipatory anxiety things going on in my brain.

33:48And then once we got the three shows in a row done, I thought, oh, that wasn't so hard. It was easy. John beat himself up the entire tour with anticipatory anxiety. And then at the end, couldn't even, you know, was too stupid to realize that you f*** the whole tour up by worrying about stuff that did not happen. I wrote up one of my songs once. I'm worried about many things most of which never happened and that's what happened. Some people might wonder why John Mellencamp gets anxiety. You performed your whole life. It's not that. I was born with spina bifida and I think I'm just wired differently than most people because in 1951, they had to cut off my head.

34:43I'd have a scar from here to here. And they had to do all this work. And your parents probably didn't know. They were 20. Wow. They were 20, so they just kind of went like this to my, here, take this kid to my grandmother. And my grandmother raised me for the first four or five years, which was a real blessing for me. And you think because of your spina bifida that that is part of why you have anxiety? Oh, I don't think I know. Really? I know because, yeah, I've seen a very successful psychiatrist for years about, you know, anxiety. And don't forget, this is 1951. and they didn't know anything about anything in 1951.

35:38You know, you got a big birthday coming up. When you think about what you're like as a kid, what you're like now, do you feel like you're the same person? Yeah. I had not an interesting childhood, I had a wonderful childhood.

35:55I started singing in rock bands when I was 12, and started smoking when I was 11 or 10. Went to jail when you were? I went to jail when I was young to find out I didn't want to go there again. And I had the prettiest girlfriend in town, and I loved growing up in that town.

36:21Small Town is one of my favorites of your songs. And reading the lyrics of it, I mean, that's in your new book that's out with your lyrics. in the song book and the I mean it is poetry and I love poetry and as you're reading through it I wonder how you think of it when you're writing a song do you view it as poetry yourself? I went through a stage where I was disliked by all the rock critics in the very beginning of my career I figured out that to get past the critics not liking me I had to go above their head so I I I learned how to write pop songs. Like, Hurt So Good, you know, songs like that.

37:02Or Ain't Even Done With The Night. You know, they were all pop songs. And so it was a slow climb. I made like five albums before I had a hit record. Sometimes love don't feel like it should, but you're making it hurt so good. But that climb was worth it, Given Mellencamp eventually had 29 hits on the Billboard Hot 100. Is it true they didn't like Hurt So Good when you first wrote it? Yeah, the record company came down and said, you've spent half a million dollars so far on this record, and how many songs you got done? And I went, three. And don't forget, that was a lot of money back then. Yeah.

37:49And so they said, well, let's hear the three songs. and they were hurt so good Jack and Diane hand to hold on to and they hated them because they didn't sound like everything else that was on the radio you know they hated Jack and Diane oh hated hated hated hated so they just said listen Mellencamp you either come up with something or you're going to be off the label So I called up a friend of mine named Mick Ronson, who was David Bowie's guitar player. And Mick's dead now. Now, I loved Mick. And Mick called to Johnny all the time, Johnny, you need to put some baby rattles on this song. And I was like, what?

38:40Baby rattles, you know, shakers. And so that's what we did for Jack and Diane.

38:50Little ditty about Jack and Diane. The Bee Gees were next door, and I heard this sound coming out of their studio, and I'd never heard this sound before. And it was a drum machine. Never heard of a drum machine before. And it had a funny sound to it. And so my drummer would always, you know, you would start, if this is one, two, three, four, one, two. By the end of the song, the mother was playing. One, two, three, he always sped up, you know. So if the song started at this tempo, it was going to end at this tempo because he always sped up. So a drum machine does not speed up. So I asked, can I borrow this machine?

39:38They said, yeah, we're done using it. So it kept perfect time. So now my drummer couldn't speed up. So we put the drum machine in, Jack and Diane, and then we played with the drum machine. And then I thought, we'll take the drum machine out. Took the drum machine out. Song sounded like sh**. Without the drum machine. So you kept it? We kept it in. People had not ever heard a song with that sound in it, except, you know, when songs are by the VG stuff. They never heard a rock version. So it became my first number one record. And then guess what happened? Talk about Lucky. Do you think the record company ever said anything to me again about anything?

40:33Never. Mellencamp used his luck for good. Alongside Willie Nelson and Neil Young, the trio launched Farm Aid, an annual charity concert that supports American family farms. All three will return to the stage this weekend in Virginia. Did you think it'd still be going 40 years later? No, no, I didn't. You, Willie Nelson, Neil Young. And Willie called me up and we didn't know each other. And he was in Bloomington playing golf. And he said, I heard you just made a record about the farm crisis. And I go, well, kind of, yeah. And he said, would you like to help me? And I said, sure. And then it was just casual.

41:21I just said, yeah, sure, let's do it. When is it? When do you want to do it? He said, I think we need to get somebody else. Then I got a call from Neil. Neil said he just talked to Willie. And that's how Farm Aid started. We were so naive. all three of us thought, well, we'll do this concert and the government will see that they're wrong and they'll help, you know, pass some laws that will help the small family farmer. And it didn't happen. Matter of fact, it's worse now than it was. But what Farm Aid has been good at is helping people who need help. From a small town to decades on the big stage, Mellencamp's work isn't over yet.

42:10A musical made with his hits premieres this fall, and he has a new songbook out next week. You have always had these opinions, but don't you feel like that is part of who you are, why you are, who you are today? I'm nobody today.

42:29What the f*** I'm not that interesting and you know, I'm not that you're not that interesting. No No I'm not that interesting. I'm not that white. I'm not You know, I'm I'm an isolationist. I mean, I love being by myself. I love being alone That's why I live in Indiana, you know, that's why I never moved to New York or Los Angeles I never came here seeking to be famous. I never wanted to be famous. My goal was very simple. I wanted to make one record. If I could just make one record, I'd be happy. Now I've made like 40. So who's the luckiest guy in the world that you guys know? Me. Luckiest guy in the world.

43:24You'll see John along with other music legends tomorrow right here on CNN. Farm Aid 2026 Music Festival Live airs Saturday at 7 p.m. streaming live with an all-access subscription. Coming up next, the source code. We're giving you a number at the center of a story in the news. Can you guess the story? Tonight's source code is 40 million. We'll be right back with the end.

43:56Tonight's source code is 40 million. That's how many people are in the path of a powerful nor 'easter slamming into the east coast this evening. A state of emergency has been declared across several counties in New Jersey and New York, including New York City. Emergency operations are also being activated in Boston. The storm is expected to intensify throughout the weekend, with the worst conditions expected in eastern Massachusetts. Forecasters say some areas could get more than a month's worth of rain in a single day. Be sure to download the CNN weather app for the latest forecast and expert coverage.

44:32You can stream the source live or watch on demand anytime with an all-access subscription. Scan the QR code on your screen or go to CNN.com slash watch to learn more. Thanks so much for joining us. I'm Jim Sciutto, CNN Newsnight with Abby Phillip. Starts now. The Secret Society of Semi-Homemade. Listen up. Sam's Club has pre-made dishes for a Thanksgiving feast that's ready in two hours. All while tasting suspiciously homemade. Come join us. Sam's Club. Individual oven times may vary. When you're building a company, you learn that trust is what closes deals. You may have the best product, but buyers won't sign without proof that your product is secure.

45:11Especially if it has AI. Vanta gets you compliant fast with SOC 2, ISO 27001 and more, and keeps you secure with continuous monitoring. Hyperbound, a YC-backed startup, used Vanta to unlock the Fortune 100 in under a year. Snowfire got audit ready in a month and closed a multi-million dollar deal. Trust matters. Get started at Vanta.com.