#215 - Ask-Me-Anything with Sales Pro Matt Merson

24:46So you can cover more if you have the prefix. And yeah, again, for those bigger companies, you also might have merchandisers who can actually be in the store stickering the coupons on the product. But for a growing brand, it's a little bit different. Like, oh, coupons. Yeah, we should have that. But, you know, then you have to really consider whether you want to start paying that monthly retainer already. And, you know, just to do that in a couple of stores, that's kind of a tricky calculation. Right. And then also, yeah, I mean, how can you actually get the coupons on the pack, right? It's like often very hard to do that at the place of manufacturing, right?

25:19Like your co-man, they're usually not in the game of going and then taking every single product that comes off the line and putting a sticker on it. Oh, but only some that go to this one plate, right? So how do you think emerging brands typically tackle that? Well, I think in a previous chat, we talked about third-party merchandisers in Relentless or base makers or dirty hands. If you are contracted with them to deploy them into the stores, they can certainly apply them. You know, another really good use of coupons, Daniel, is if you're doing any kind of demos in store or sampling events out of store, a lot of times, you know, consumers will come up, they'll try their product.

25:57You know, they're going to think about the purchase. You're not going to get a lot of people that on the spot are going to say, oh yeah, I'm going to take this. So if you had a paper coupon that was like, hey, look, today in the store, I'm going to give you a dollar off this product. Take this coupon. You know, at a sampling, it definitely helps raise the conversion from sample to purchase in store. And when you're doing an event, you know, outside, let's say you're doing a festival and you're able to distribute coupons at the festival, you're now driving consumers to the store because they put it in their pocket.

26:28They're thinking about the brand. They didn't just sample it at the festival. Now they're coming home with something tangible. They bring it to this store. They're looking for it in the store. And you'll get a higher redemption rate if you distribute paper coupons. I like that. And yeah, I have not spent a lot of time thinking about it. It makes a ton of sense, especially if you're trying to do really well in a particular store, drive your velocity at a certain chain when you get the chance to do that. And it's a lot easier to tote around a bunch of coupons than a bunch of products. So that makes a lot of sense to me.

26:55But yeah, I mean, basically, no matter how you cut it, it's tough for a very early brand without tons of distribution and some of those, some of that infrastructure in place to really deploy coupons in an effective way. I think some of them look more at the digital approach then because of those challenges where you can try to offer those like text to get a rebate type things. Or, I mean, you can also look at some of those digital coupon partners out there that are in the stores or like, you know, retail medias, some alternatives for that. Okay. Coming to our next question here. So Peter asked, he's working through the KEHI roadmap planning, but I think this would be the same, whether it's KEHI, UNFI, and was just asking if anybody has opinions around some of the advertising or roadmap programs, you know, what do we do?

27:45What's actually really effective? What's the stuff that you like the best. My two favorite components of the roadmap are obviously the TPR months, right? So a lot of retailers, if you're in big retailers or even small retailers, you want to have some forethought to think out to the future. And I'm thinking about 2026, which is really due now. You have to be thinking about what months next year do I want to promote with an OI allowance where we'll get passed down to my retail partners and I'll get a yellow tag on the shelf that says on sale. That to me is probably the most effective element of that.

28:20Before you do that, you should understand what percentage of your customers are chain accounts and what percentage of your customers are independents. And when you look at that subset of customers, how many will actually execute the coupon? Because remember, in both of these scenarios with KE and UNFI, you're giving Kehi and Unify the percentage off their entire load for like eight weeks. And they're only passing on the savings for four weeks to the retailer that runs a tag. So there's a lot of financial nuance around deciding when you want to run OIs. But the second part I really like about it is their shows.

28:58They have great selling shows around the country. They're well attended and you could actually write orders at the shows. As far as the digital stuff, the digital ads, I don't find a lot of value in that. And I honestly think it's very tough to tie back to performance. Okay, I ran this$1 ,000 digital ad. How did it do? Tough to measure. Pretty tough. And I totally agree with you, especially about the shows. We got a chance to go to the UNFI top two shows, I would say, which is the Vegas one and the Mohegan Sun with a innovation section. So brands from our community who were the top innovations of the year got to come and they were not yet in UNFI.

29:38So we had the section there and all of the buyers and the UNFI team could come by and vote on who they thought were the best products that should get into UNFI, probably funneling them into the UNFI Up Next program, which is pretty cool. It's exciting. They're great shows, especially if you're really trying to grow the distribution centers in those regions because that's who's there. There are a lot of the dependents there and there are a lot of the anchor accounts there. And that's a very, almost the point of sale approach to trying to grow something, the equivalent of doing TPRs, really at the source.

30:11Okay, here are the buyers who pull out of these DCs. Let me try to grow with them. And think about this for a second, Dan. I mean, I wonder how many UNFI reps were at that Mohican Sunshow and how long it would take you as a manufacturer to engage with all the UNFI reps and get them to be ambassadors and salespeople for your brand. But having a table right there, being able to connect with not only customers, but really an extension of your selling team, which is the distributor rep, the UNFI reps or KHE reps, it's really invaluable and probably money well spent. You know, it's funny. That's what I said back to UNFI.

30:44I was like, thank you. This is such a cool opportunity for us. And actually the thing that I probably liked the most was just getting to know the UNFI team so well, because they were more excited than anybody about the innovation section. And they kept coming back and bringing their teammates from UNFI and their buyers like, look, did you look at this thing? I remember the brand Browse was there with us, which is a German craft soda. They have like a malt beer, but it's non-alc. It's amazing. And there was a woman from UNFI who is German and she was obsessed and she should be. It's an incredible product and she just won a shelfie with us for that SKU.

31:18It's so good. But she brought literally 20 people. That's an accurate count. Like back by to do the voting, to vote for her to get in. So, you know, everybody in our section just made so many allies with the UNFI team who, you know, the same is true with UNFI and Kehi. The people who work there love brands. They love emerging brands. They like what they do. You know, I think almost everybody in CPG does and they just are excited to get to know the products and then try to support them. And I mean, you probably know this better than anybody. Sometimes those account managers can actually be an easier ticket into an account than the actual buyers, right?

31:53They're your advocates. Yeah. What a cool chance to be there. And I definitely would encourage anybody at whether you're at one of those distributor shows or you're at expo, treat anybody from one of those distributors the same way that you would a buyer, try to sell them and, you know, ask what account they work with. Or if even if you have a different target account, ask if their colleague is there, because they're generally pretty nice, open people. You'll kind of know if they're not really interested in talking to you the same way to buyer, because sometimes they're just there on a mission.

32:20They're like, I'm here with this buyer and we're just looking to get deals on a truck of pasta or something. But most of the time, they're pretty open and excited to discover new stuff. And honestly, Dan, these are natural foods distributors, right? Everybody in that room is in the natural food space, whether it's your manufacturer, exhibitor to your left, the manufacturing team across you. Everybody's got natural products. Everybody's probably a consumer of natural products. Everybody at that show is a customer. I love it. So the selling shows are pretty interesting because often you have to preload a deal that you're coming to the show with.

32:57And some people get aggressive because, so let's say you have the Kehi Chicago show that happens, which is actually the winter selling show. It's in the middle of summer, but that's when buyers are coming to buy their winter inventory. They know they need all of this stuff that's going to get heavily shopped around the holidays, cookies, hot chocolate. You can imagine all this stuff that people are going to have for their big feasts. And so they're there to get deals because that is a huge impact on their bottom line. And the brands understand that too. So they're coming in with these deals, but I don't know.

33:28I've never gotten to the stage of a brand where that actually was a huge target of ours. I've always been more interested to be there just to build the relationships. But often And you get the buyers who are like, I'm doing that day one. And then maybe I'll come around and discover some stuff. But other buyers are just that they're just there basically to do that. There are a couple of retail chains who are pretty famous of just like they just walk around in a pack of eight and they just go and try to get half off of a truck from someone. You know, it's coming. You're like, do I do this deal with the devil?

33:55I don't know. Like, can I at least get on the shelf afterwards? So good for everyone to be prepared and talk to their CFO before they go. So you know what you're authorized to do on the floor. So one question I have for you is around free fills, because when you get in with these distributors, you can authorize things like whether it's your sales team to like, hey, there's a new store. It's in one independent store and they're kind of used to, hey, if they order a new product, they get a free fill, which means one free case per store per SKU, something like that. And then, oh, well, there's this eight store chain that wants it.

34:27They want all these free fills. But, you know, you can also have there's death by free fill as well, because they aren't ever obligated to keep ordering from you after that free fill. I've definitely met some chain buyers, smaller chain buyers who just come around to those shows and they're like, yeah, why don't you give me a free shipper of each SKU? And then if I like it, I'll think about it. Like, no, thanks, buddy. Keep walking. So how do you how do you actually do the free fills? How do you decide who to prioritize, different DCs, all that? I think the kiss of death is giving carte blanche.

34:58There's a box you can check in your onboarding paperwork around free fills that, you know, should any customer ask for a free fill, they will execute it. And that is the box you do not want to check because then you will be billed back ad nauseum for free fills because every single rep will take advantage of it. They'll place your product in the stores. And to your point, maybe it get reordered, maybe it doesn't. But the way I think about it is this, you know, I label accounts A, B, and C accounts. And I think it's pretty in line with what my broker community and what the distributor community might also label A, B, and C accounts, or you can align together.

35:37Any A account that comes on board, which is a chain, you know, these 100 chains on the list, if they want a free fill, they can take it. You don't have to come to me for authorization. If it's a B account on the list, you know, I might cover 50 % of a free fill and you don't need authorization. If it's a C account on the list, I might cover 25 % of a free fill and they need to get prior written approval. So the rep will write into me and say, hey, I have this two store chain in Charlotte that, you know, natural grocers, whatever, wants your product. And then the decision is mine, whether or not I want to support the C account with a 25 % discount or deeper.

36:14I like it. And I mean, I definitely worked with brokers where you really just had to rely on their account manager in the region who is like, no, no, like you're going to have to give this chain free fills. They've got three stores, but they do volume and they're going to take it. And you just kind of have to defer to their opinion on all that stuff. It's like almost not even worth the time to debate it, but sometimes they just know. And then other times you just really need to rally up enough accounts to truly support a specific DC. I mean, Jungle Gyms is a great example, right? Massive store out of Cincinnati.

36:45You know, you would never know about it unless the local broker said, no, this is a store where you have to do it for. We'll be right back. Are you going to crush it on Amazon this year? It's such an important channel, but it's so hard to do alone. And most agencies are a total ripoff. We can't afford$5 ,000 a month and a commission on our sales. They just don't get it. That's why I love our partners at Daybreak. They are full service, meaning they do the creative work, the listings, the logistics, and of course, all the ads, all with the most reasonable retainer out there. I work with them personally.

37:16I'm so grateful we have such a good partner to recommend out to you, our community. They do evaluate your product first to see if it might be a fit. So if you want them to have a look, email them startupcpg at daybreak.agency and they'll do a free audit for you. Good luck, everyone.

37:34what are some other local gems like that around the country totally yeah jungle gyms definitely met them at the kee show and got an order from them that was pretty cool i don't know if i got a second order from them they might have just enjoyed the discount and maybe it didn't do great who knows but any others that you think are sleepers or undercover killers well you got stew leonard's here in new york with about five stores you got vintage grocers in the la market in NorCal. You got Rainbow Grocers. There's a handful of like one or two or three chains that are definitely worth it. That's cool.

38:06I love that. Vintage Grocers as well. What a cool location. Shopped by some very influential people as well. You see definitely a celebrity hangout spot. What are some others that I would put into that category? Maybe Mustard Seed Market in the Midwest. I know they do just a ton of volume. Yeah. And I would probably happier grocery I would put into that also in New York that I just that place is always packed that's a really really great account for people okay so let's see maybe one more question here that I would like to ask one of the things uh the second most question I get asked is around sell sheets like because you need the sell sheet for the show and what should you include on it and well that's where I was going so if you would let no thanks for the setup all right so that that was is what I was going to ask actually the next Slack question.

38:54We get so many about sell sheets, right? And this particular one, the question that she was asking is specifically just around like, hey, should I list MOQs on there? You know, like price tiers. What do you think? Any best practices overall for sales sheets? And let's definitely talk about whether to actually include your pricing and tiers and stuff on there. Yep. I would say absolutely no to that because, Because as you scale the business, the sell sheet is going to go into multiple places and multiple distributors. And the pricing for one distributor might be different than a pricing for another.

39:27The MOQ to the distributor might be different. But secondarily, when you start to push these down to the retail trade, one distributor's MOQ is going to be different than another distributor's MOQ. One could say it's a 20 case minimum. Somebody else might say it's a$300 minimum. So there should absolutely be nothing about the distributor's arrangements on how they go to service accounts in the market. If you want to create one sell sheet that you can use at trade shows, that you can deploy with your distributor partners, that you can deploy to your retail partners, the front of the sell sheet should really have your USP, a picture of your brand, the why, the unique selling proposition.

40:06The back should have specs. specs. It should have pictures of each of the SKUs. It should have the case pack, the size. It should have any certifications. Is it non-GMO? Is it gluten-free, vegan? It should also have the UPC barcode of the selling unit. So on the spot, somebody could enter it into their system, set it up, and then it'll start scanning at the register. Nutrition facts panel, ingredient statement with each SKU. Shelf life, whether it's refrigerated, frozen, or shelf stable needs to be slacked out. It's tough because also like, I mean, like if you're working with a K here or something, and if you're delivering into different DCs, the price is actually different for the wholesale price at the different DCs.

40:51So that's not really even gonna be right. Also, are they gonna like pick up from you? Are they gonna deliver? You're also definitely gonna change that stuff over time if you have different pallet requirements. It all sounds great in theory, but then like people just order less than you think and you have to get adaptive to it. But I think typically people just say, throw the MSRP on there. But even that, I think, can be a little tricky because you're like, well, it's different for a natural and conventional. And I don't want to piss the conventional people off because the margin's not there for them to get 50 % margin and hit my MSRP.

41:22Where do you land on the MSRP one? I leave it off because it can age over time, maybe get hit with a tariff and it changes. I mean, the market's changing so much. And when you just think about the pool of contacts that you have, you might have 2, 3, 4, 10, 15, 25, 50 distributors, but you're going to have thousands of retail partners. And ultimately, the sell sheet has got to be as neutral as possible and designed to talk to the retail partners. Some of the stuff that you're mentioning about MOQ, case size, should really be on a PDF spec sheet that has the UPC code, the GTIN code for the box, any other particulars around specs of the case size, the unit size, if there's an inner pack, all of that should be on a spec sheet that's really only used to distributor community.

42:11But at the trade shows, you're really, you know, if you're at a UNFI trade show, you assume you're past that step. So now you're really talking to retailers and consumers. So when you're at that trade show, you know, my first year being there, I felt totally lost because I really didn't know the accounts then. Like I knew the bigger ones, but I definitely didn't know who any of the buyers were. It was so hard for me, I think, to really be effective because I'm totally willing to get out in front of the booth and grab anybody, but I didn't know who to grab. And that's a tough thing. And I would say the second year I knew pretty well because I had just spent all year trying to figure out our strategy and pitching so many of these accounts, even over LinkedIn and all these different kinds of opportunities.

42:50And okay, so now it's many years later and I feel like I want to play if they ever do CPG sales jeopardy, like this account is blah, blah, blah. And the buyer's name is like, oh, I know this. Like, I feel like now I know pretty well, but definitely not as well, even as a lot of people. Did you feel like there's a way you can fast track that learning curve as an early brand showing up to a show? You've got your trade sheet, but who do you try to give it to? Like, how do you feel like you can really be effective in the early years? Dan, this is one of my favorite sayings of all time. And I say it every year and I largely say it around Expo West, But what I would say is this, is that the trade show itself is the output of all the work you do leading up into the trade show, which is the input.

43:33And if you don't do the work leading up into the trade show, your output will be bad. If you do all the work, you know, trying to engage with buyers, trying to engage with, in this case, UNFI reps, contacting them, trying to get them to your booth, make sure buyers are attending. Maybe you have some sort of premium like, hey, if you come to my booth, I have an Amex gift card or a Starbucks gift card for you and your buyer. All that work leading up into the show will determine how well you do at the show. I totally agree with that. And I would have hustled all year trying to build relationships so that, yes, that was just the culmination of all of that.

44:11We're getting to actually see the person because they know I've followed up with them a bunch of times and have shown a real interest. They're more likely to stop. I'm like, oh, hey, I just want to introduce myself. I'm Daniel. I've hit you up a bunch of times. We have, you know, as you know, we have this traction that I've been sharing with you. So I I totally agree with you. I've heard a couple. I mean, usually that's what I hear from people, something like that. A couple of times I've heard brands who are like, yeah, I don't know. We just don't believe in that. We show up and we don't really even stand in front of the booth.

44:36We just kind of like let people come to us. And if it's meant to be, it's it'll happen. Like they'll come and find us. I'm like, yeah, that's great. You know, I like to be open to different perspectives, but I think that's crazy. like why would you do all of this and then waste your time not going and aggressively chasing all the leads what are you even doing at the show if you don't want to go and attack everything or at least like the ones that you're really looking for they should never pass your booth without you seeing them because it's so easy for people to walk by stuff and just not turn their head or not really take it in or they're thinking about their chores for the week or their kids soccer game when they just don't lock in with your booth like you gotta be out there you gotta know as well as you can who you're looking for and stop them somehow, by any means necessary.

45:16And this may be crazy, but we're already working on Expo West and we're six months out. So really, any trade show you do is the output of the work you do leading up into it. My only hope is that part of your plan is to be near us so that we can drink all of your delicious coconut water during the trade show as usual. I got you covered. Usually you're there fueling and hydrating us and it's so delicious. And I did buy one at Equinox actually the other day after my workout that you were the only brand that I knew that had somehow gotten placement in the printing house Equinox here in New York City.

45:48So congratulations on it. Thank you. However you did that. Okay. So last question, this actually doesn't come from the Slack. It comes from a lot of people who just have messaged me personally or people that I know or have tried to mentor. So for somebody who wants to be the next Matt Merson, they want to be a sales pro. There are a lot of people who break into CPG sales early on in their career and they want growth, right? Salespeople always like, you know, pretty ambitious. They want to get better and learn and grow. What do you think are just some of the most formative experiences, the best things that you can go after if your goal is to get to be the head of sales eventually for cool CPG company?

46:29First and foremost, I would say it's your network, right? Every sale you make, You're building the trust of a customer, a distributor partner, but there's going to be a lot of things you don't know. And that's what I really love about the channel. It's 30 ,000 people connected. It's part of your network, an extension of yourself. I like to give back as much as people have given me. So I definitely think you should rely on your network. It's a good question. Even to get your first job is tough. I will say the best for me, and I mean, I don't know everything that you know and ever will. I know a very small fraction of it, but it was very well received once when somebody applied for their first sales job with me.

47:11But they actually sent a video, not in a weird way, in a good way. It was just embedded into the email like, hey, here's who I am. By the way, I also recorded this video for you. And it was not weird at all. It was just a super authentic, passionate overview of just, hey, here's why I love this brand. And I just really liked the person's vibe and everything they sent hit with me. It was like, yes, this person really gets what we're working on here. And at least, you know, from a culture perspective, 10 out of 10. You know, but for people at least trying to like really break in and get that first great sales job, that'll be a good learning opportunity as well for them?

47:51Because there are plenty of jobs out there that are not a great learning opportunity or just doing something that might not even progress your career. Any recommendations on those early ways to reach out to people or how to even know if it's a good company you should work for? Yeah, I mean, so two things. One, I would say, you know, you have to do your research. You want to be in a category that's growing. You want to be in a brand that's growing. You want to be in a brand that has runway, that has financial backing, that has experts, you know, at the head of the ship. But the other thing, you know, when you talk about just trying to get it, break into the industry, a lot of times I'd seen the sign that says attitude over skills.

48:27And that's why I love that video example. But if you have an open mind and a can-do attitude, people will want to teach you the right things to do and will make you successful. So come in with an open mind and the right attitude and you will be fine. I like that. I mean, on my team now, we're not hitting stores. You know, what we do sometimes just to see all the great brands from our community, but not in the way that salespeople are. But I think that's the thing that I also appreciate the most for my team is just a great attitude because it's infectious. And also, I mean, this thing is hard to do in general.

49:01And when you have people with a great attitude, you're just so grateful to have them on a team. And it just is so fun to work with them because, yeah, they're just open and ready to do stuff, ready to take the load off for you and run with it. So I really appreciate that just because it's not just a great attitude, but it just is so energizing, I think, for the whole team. So, Matt, I'm going to wrap us here. What I know is that this will not be the last ask me anything that we do with you because we've only gotten through a small fraction of all of the questions that I really want to get a chance to talk through with you here on the podcast.

49:35But I do want to say thank you for helping us get through a bunch of the early ones. And I'm really excited for everybody to get to learn from this. And just as we're wrapping here, Matt, can you just remind everybody how to stay in touch with you, how to support Once Upon a Coconut? Yeah, for sure. And listen, I appreciate you having me on the show. And I'm always willing to chat and love chatting with you and the team. But I'm very active on the CPG Slack channel. You can just message me directly there. I'm pretty active on LinkedIn, too, if you want to message me there. But pretty accessible guy.

50:07You're the man, Matt. Thank you. I really appreciate it. You're always open just to drop all of these nuggets. They're all juicy. All right. Thanks, my friend. Hope everybody enjoyed it. Good to see you. Bye, everyone. All right, everybody. Thank you so much for listening to our podcast. If you loved it, I would so appreciate it if you could leave us a review. You could do it right now. If you're an Apple podcast, you can scroll to the bottom of our Startup CPG podcast page and click on Write a Review. Leave your company name in there. I will try to read it out. If you're in Spotify, you can click on about and then the star rating icon.

50:44If you are a service provider that would like to appear on the Startup CPG podcast, you can email us at partnerships at startupcpg.com. Lastly, if you found yourself grooving along to the music, it is my band. You can visit our website and listen to more. It is superfantastics.com. Thank you, everybody. See you next time.

51:09Thank you.