Arthur Fils - future Roland Garros champion?

0:00David Law: As a small business owner, you're the CEO, the marketing team, and the customer service rep all at once. I was recently talking to a shop owner who told me their worst nightmare isn't a slow day, it's the vanishing act. It's that moment you're inches away from a deadline and the Wi-Fi just disappears. We've all felt that pit in our stomach when the connection flares up right when it matters most. Your business is only as strong as your connection. AT &T Business is the reliable provider built for that exact brand of hustle. so you can stay focused on the work that builds your legacy. Powered by AT &T Business.

0:34David Law: Built to work. Get AT &T Business at business.att.com.

0:42Matt Roberts: AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the Fortune 500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows and AI connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com.

1:26Matt Roberts: Well, hello and welcome to your Monday morning tennis podcast. We have a lot to discuss on today's show. Titles yesterday for Elena Rabakina, Marta Kostjik, Ben Shelton and Art Afis. And we, of course, have an exhilarated David Law with us this morning. How are you doing, David?

1:51David Law: Yeah, I'm exhilarated. Pretty standard, but it has been a heck of a good week of tennis. Loads going on and nice weather as well here in sunny Solich Hall. So particularly exhilarated.

2:06Matt Roberts: Matt, still exhilarated from Fulham's 0-0 with Brentford on Saturday.

2:13Catherine Whitaker: I was annoyed I couldn't get a ticket for that and then really pleased I didn't get a ticket for that because, my God, what a dreadful match. But I was thrilled for David. I feel like we had an hour period on, was it Saturday, where West Brom scored a load of goals, Art of Feast was winning. It was all coming up, David.

2:34Matt Roberts: Yeah, it was all coming up, David Law. Art of Feast is coming, David. Part two. Can you hang on till then?

2:42David Law: No trouble. No trouble. This is only the calm before the storm anyway. I mean, Barcelona title. So, you know, I'm just pacing myself.

2:49Matt Roberts: This is the appetizer. We're going to head to Stuttgart first of all. And the WTA 500 event there won by Elena Rabakina. 7-5, 6-1 over Karolina Mukova in the final. She won all sorts of tennis matches, did Elena Rabakina, in all sorts of different ways over the course of the week. She beat Leila Fernandes in the quarterfinals in a deciding set tyre break. Then she beat Miran Draver in the semifinals. And she returns now to the top of the WTA race. She is firmly number two in the rankings, about 2 ,000 points behind Irina Sabalenka. But in L race, she is number one. Matt, on Thursday evening, we lit a bit of a fire under Stuttgart, didn't we?

3:42Matt Roberts: We said it's been a crap slow start. Please sort yourselves out and give us a thrilling three days. And fair play Stuttgart. I think it's fair to say they delivered.

3:55Catherine Whitaker: I'll say, yeah. I mean, with that quarterfinal line-up that was set up, hard for it not to deliver. But then I do feel like we've, you know, see the Australian Open where we had great matches all along and did not deliver for the most part. But no, Stuttgart really did. and Rabatkinner just continues to be in incredible form, doesn't she? This is now the first time she's won multiple titles somewhere. She has removed the Medvedev curse over her little collection of titles. She won this back in 2024, and she didn't play it last year. So she's on a real streak, actually, in Stuttgart. And those conditions, indoors, obviously we saw what she can do on an indoor hard court back in the WTA finals last year against the best players in the world.

4:46Catherine Whitaker: And on clay, I do think the indoor clay is a good surface for a little bit of time on the ball and so dominant on both serve and return. And look, she had to get through that match against Fernandes because actually that was a match that resembled the Rebecca of a couple of years ago, even the start of last year, where she would get embroiled in these matches where the momentum's swinging back and forth and you're thinking, why is Rabatkin in these matches? She's so good on serve and so good on return. She simply shouldn't be involved in these matches. I would say big credit to Leila Fernandes, who's often played Rabatkin very tough and has made some of their matches quite messy in the past.

5:28Catherine Whitaker: I think Fernandes' retrieval skills, her angles, her ability to take the ball early, occasionally resort to the slice, all just caused a bit of problems for Rabakina. She was unconvincing in that one. Even two double faults in the final set tie-break that she did manage to win. But I think in the past, that might have carried on for Rabakina. We might have seen that sort of performance again in one of her other matches in the tournament. But this time, she just resorted back to the brilliant form that she'd been in all season. And I think Andreeva and Mukova were not quite either of them at their sort of physical best in the semi-final or final.

6:08Catherine Whitaker: They both perhaps faded a little bit, but Rabatkinner was just awesome. And I think actually the final against Mukova, it felt more one-sided than 7-5, 6-1. Mukova did well to make that first set close, but really Rabatkinner had a poor game when she came to serve it out at the first attempt with her forehand, which is still the shot that can go missing a little bit. But it was only briefly because she was absolutely phenomenal. for the rest of the match. And yeah, I was watching that tennis thinking, this is alongside Sabalenka, the best tennis that we have right now on the WTA. It is so, so good.

6:49Matt Roberts: Returning to number one in the race, David, is an interesting one for a back-end, isn't it? Because absolutely nobody is arguing with Irina Sabalenka being the world number one, the best tennis player in the world. We did our latest Relived show last week, up now for Friends of the Pod, focusing on the history of the rankings and how they have been compiled over the years. Spoiler alert, it is a wild ride, folks. And they used to be compiled just by a collection of journalists publishing their subjective lists of who they thought the best players were at the end of the year. and is a little bit of fun at the end of the show.

7:28Matt Roberts: We all did our own little list and Marina Sabalenka was at the top of all of them. And yet with quite a large sample size now, coming up to four months, Elena Rabakina has been the best player in the world in 2026. And I think somehow those two things are both true.

7:50David Law: Yeah, yeah, it's interesting, isn't it, that? And I do feel like had Rabakina edged that Indian Wells match that they had, I might have felt differently then because she'd already beaten her at the Australian Open. And then obviously they played a more one-sided match with Sabalenka winning in Miami. So I do think that bit of recency has tipped my view a little bit because their rivalry felt like Rabacaner's to me overall, the way it was going. And like she was the kryptonite. And I still feel like that's the case in terms of she's the only player I look at and think, on the regular, I expect her to A, cause Samalenka problems, and B, actually feel like she could even be the favourite going into a lot of their matches now, the way she's playing.

8:45David Law: Generally, I feel like she's just an incredibly high-floor player and a high-ceiling player. She's that amazing combination. For a while there, that Fernandes match she mentioned, that was the prevailing feeling with Rebacca. There was way too much of that, and she sorted that out. She does feel on a par with Sabalenka to me this year. I do still think of Sabalenka probably as the favourite going into tournaments. But then if I actually remind myself of what the year has looked like, I think Rebecca has overplayed a bit. I think Sabalenka has been really sensible because she hasn't played. And that feeds into those points as well.

9:34Matt Roberts: In terms of the rankings, so the year-round rankings, as I said, the gap is just over 2 ,000 points. but that's with 19 tournaments played for Sabalenka and 23 for a back in it.

9:47David Law: I think maybe the more significant boy is they feel more like the Senegal Kraus. Rather than worrying about who's number one, who's number two, they feel different to everybody else right now. I think that they should be going into probably, and certainly the next Grand Slam as the favourites really. because it's clay and I was looking at Rabakina's Roland Garros record hasn't been that great she's reached a couple of quarter finals but she hasn't gone beyond that but I do feel like we're in a different era for Rabakina now this feels like her era almost as though she's she's settled down week to week at least on the tour like she doesn't seem to have these health issues that were bothering her like I said I think she's overplaying and I think that that could come to hurt her I don't think I think Rebecca Sabalenka's got that right the these gaps that she's having but um yeah the next the next month is going to be a really interesting one

10:55Matt Roberts: two Porsches hope she's got a big driveway uh I feel like we uh we should give Karolina Mukova some flowers. What a season Karolina Mukova is having. Again, just to refer back to our Tennis Relived show recorded at the end of last week, friends of the tennis podcast that have listened to that will know that there was a little bit of Karolina Mukova slander from David at the end of that show. Contraversing. It feels like Karolina Mukova has done the, and I took that personally meme, because, look, I know she's won 1 ,000 this year, reaching the final of a 500 is not, you know, new potatoes for Mukova, but beating Coco Gough is, Matt, and backing it up and with that stunning win over Alina Svitolina in the semifinals, okay, it felt like the gas wasn't in the tank for the final and maybe Rabakina would have been too good even if there had been gas in the tank.

11:53Matt Roberts: But I felt like this was a step, quite a significant step for Karolina Mukova this week, in particular that three-set win over Coco Gough.

12:04Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, she'd lost six times in a row to Gough and she'd actually lost three times in a row to Svitolina. So to flip those head-to-heads around in consecutive matches, I agree with you, this does feel like a real step for Mukova. I talked on the pod on Thursday about some of those match-up issues with Gough. Interestingly, look, we hadn't seen it on clay and in my head that would probably only help Coco Goff, you know. But actually, I do think Mukova really played phenomenally well in this one and found a way to have a constant threat. You know, her forehand picked up where it left off against Mertens in the round before and was absolutely brilliant coming up with so many angles, such pace on it as well.

12:51Catherine Whitaker: I don't always think of her forehand as a big shot. I think of it as crafty and creative, but actually I thought it was really piercing through Goff's defences. And both of them were using the court so well. It was such an athletic match. It was really compelling, this one. And then she needed the grip that you always need to be able to beat Goff. You need that as well against Svitolina. And she had it because, again, Mukwe was outplaying her. But then Svitolina won a 10-deuce game at the start of the second set, which changed the whole feel of the match and made it feel like it was now being played on Svitolina's terms.

13:31Catherine Whitaker: It became a bit more of a slugfest. And I thought, oh, I don't know if Mukova can get out of this against Svitolina and her grip on it. But she did. So I think that's really significant for Mukova to get big wins against people who've been difficult for her and to back them up. you know like we all know Mukhova can play brilliant tennis but stringing them together and okay she didn't end up winning the title but she strung enough good performances together to just show me as she has done all season really that this is a this is a different player we're talking about in 2026 I think with Mukhova I trust her more I trust her body more in these matches and these tournaments you know she's she's 20 and 0 this season against everyone that isn't Sabalenka, Goff, Sviontek and Rabakina.

14:16Catherine Whitaker: She is not taking bad losses at all, you know, and she's healthy, she's played a full schedule, but she's also, to David's point about Sabalenka, I think playing a smart schedule. She's pulling out of events, you know, like start of the year, she played Brisbane and Australia. That was her swing. Middle East, she won Doha, didn't play anything else, just the one event. Sunshine double, okay, she lost early at Indian Wells to Sviontek, so she goes and plays Miami and gets the semis there. And here she's made the final of Stuttgart on clay. And now she's withdrawn from Madrid. I hope not an injury.

14:51I hope just a sensible, I've got enough tennis already.

14:55Catherine Whitaker: And I feel like that's smart because she is someone who has had a lot of injury problems and she's just scheduling herself really sensibly, not like playing three events in a row, maybe keeping it at two. And I think you have to say this, this partnership with Sven Grunewald's really working for her as well. and it just feels like all the pieces are coming together for Mukova and I've loved watching it.

15:17Matt Roberts: It's the schedule of a Grand Slam contender, isn't it? And it's the schedule of somebody with confidence in their own tennis, somebody that's not on that panicked rankings hamster wheel, which is very, very easy to get sucked into. she backs herself that when she does play as you said Matt she's not going to pick up those surprising losses anything to say for yourself David? To be clear David balked at Matt and I elevating Mukava into the top 10 as part of our subjective rankings and Mukava now on the objective rankings stands right on the cusp of the top 10 once again she's 11 but not in it uh and she's uh 200 points behind victoria and boco i think of david as such a mook of a guy me too it really shocked me i i i have regretted it

16:22David Law: ever since i said it i have it was so out of character i felt like i needed to be lance tingay and say something you know and have a take and have a i put young chinwen in there who i you know i do think of as a top 10 player obviously we all supported that bold take we were very you know no i i've regretted it ever since because because she she has been so good i mean look she is probably my favorite player in the wta rankings i think pretty much she's certainly one of them she's one of the top three um and i i've always gone on about oh all i wish for her is good health because I think good health and Karolina Mukova is a top player.

17:10David Law: And she's proven that. She's proven that. And you're right, the scheduling is sensible. I also think, I mean, I haven't seen them together. I can only see the results, but I know Sven Grunewald. I've known him for 25 years. He's a really good communicator, really good, really easy to talk to and have a sensible sort of approach to things. And he's obviously vastly experienced as well. Maria Sharapova he worked with. He was with Greg Krasinski for several years. I mean, he's worked with a lot of players, Bianca Andreescu for a while. And that seems like a really sensible combination to me. And I just love watching what's possible now with Mukova, provided we don't get any physical hiccups.

17:57David Law: But yes, I take it back. I was wrong and I regret it.

18:03Matt Roberts: Bianca Andreescu, Maria Sharapova and Greg Rozetski what a CV

18:09David Law: well I mean they had some good results together back in the late 90s oh yeah I think wasn't Sven or the other way around

18:16Matt Roberts: somebody was best man at somebody's wedding

18:18David Law: that's right yeah Sven was Greg's best man that's right there you go

18:23Matt Roberts: I think that's right unclear if he played a role at Maria Sharapova's wedding we'll try and get to the bottom of that I feel like, and this is becoming a kind of regular segment, we talk about the title and the final and then we kind of go back a couple of rounds to talk about the loss in the tournament of Igor Shviontek. because it is always, at the moment anyway, kind of a source of fascination and spawns endless analysis, particularly now that we're in the post-Rafa influence era of Iger Svontek's career. She took a loss in the quarterfinals to Mira Andreva, 6-3 in the third, from a set-up.

19:12Matt Roberts: She won the first set 6-3, went to break up at the start of the second, actually, And it looked like she was going to be breaking that pattern of losses from a set up, but all got away from her quite quickly in that second set. So it's another loss from a set up and it's another loss to a top 10 player. Hasn't beaten a top 10 player for around about six months now, I think. And look, this isn't anything new in terms of recent Iger Svantec. But I think what's notable about it is that we perhaps were expecting something new and something different because of, you know, the much hyped footage of her at the Rafael Nadal Academy with her new coach and new mascot, Rafael Nadal.

19:59and I don't know as somebody who and look all this might prove is that my analysis is rubbish

20:08Matt Roberts: but I was expecting the whole Rafael Nadal thing to have a significant short-term impact and maybe medium-term impact but I questioned how much of a long-term impact it would have of how many of the sort of deeper problems it was solved. So I was slightly alarmed to see not a lot of short-term impact, to see the same old gremlins and demons surface that we had been seeing pre-Raphael Nadal. I think probably more significant than all of that is the fact that her serve is a problem. Like as much as this is about, you know, I do think there's something mental going on there, these losses from a set up are significant she also has a serve that's a bit of a gimme at the moment and and that is something that needs urgent attention Matt yeah and it got worse and

21:05Catherine Whitaker: worse as this match went on you know her first serve percentage just dropped in this match on you know by set and you know her first serve is not the most effective first serve anyway so she kind of needs to be making a pretty high percentage to be able to get effect out of it and then as you said the second serve is kind of sitting there and is very attackable right now and I suppose the serve was an element that I wasn't expecting to have got better to be honest like um I know she is doing some technical work on it with the with the elbow placement but takes time doesn't it it does we've seen enough players work through serves to know that you can't just click your fingers and suddenly you're going to be serving a lot better so that was an element that that wasn't surprising to me I was surprised that after she put herself in that winning position she didn't really stamp her authority on it and and go ahead and win it um I did feel like the vibes were better though and maybe that's just me seeing what I want to see.

22:16Catherine Whitaker: I don't know. But, you know, I come off this loss and perhaps it's just because it's a new era and I'm already thinking about, okay, next tournament. And she put on Instagram, I can't wait to play on clay with the sun beating down. And I think we have to remember that as well, you know, like Stuttgart, I know it's clay, but it's never really been her favourite clay court tournament. And she is different when the sun is conditioned and there are conditions and it's lively. So already I'm thinking, okay, now I'm excited for the next tournament rather than the space I was in before, which was, oh, I'm sort of dreading the next tournament and sort of what result might come for Svante.

22:52Catherine Whitaker: I think that's just a change in vibe as a result of, okay, being on the clay and, okay, having made this change. I did think generally she was pretty clean from the back of the court. I didn't think it was a worrying performance in terms of the way she was hitting her ground strokes. the serve as we've said was definitely an issue and that is going to continue to be one but yeah like the other thing we should say Andreeva played extremely well and I talked about how we hadn't seen Andreeva in that kind of situation recently against those big names on the tour and didn't you just think she felt more free and more dangerous in that matchup I wasn't waiting for it all to go wrong with her.

23:35Catherine Whitaker: I was thinking about the potential and the threat of her game. And it was really nice to feel that with Andreva for the first time in a little while. And I think the matches caught up with her eventually. You know, she's sort of scheduling herself in a way that we were talking about is being unfeasible for Alcaraz, playing a couple of one-week events, then 2000s and then a major. And I think she ran out of gas at the end of that match against Rabacchino in the semi. but she really had it in the quarters against Svantec. And it wasn't like a shocking loss for Svantec, you know, because Andreva is a really good player as well.

24:15Matt Roberts: Yeah, I was watching that Andreva performance, David, thinking, wow, Matt really called this. Matt Roberts knows his stuff, doesn't he?

24:24Catherine Whitaker: Well, I did also think Svantec would win, but...

24:28Matt Roberts: Yeah, OK, fair. I've given Matt too much credit, David. Yeah. Yeah.

24:35David Law: I actually was quite encouraged for Siontech generally. And I also feel like I needed to see her in Rome, really, before I fully make up my mind. And then Roland Garros, you know, those are so different as clay court events to me.

24:53Matt Roberts: and not to push my agenda that I'm always banging on about but like that does suck about the women's clay court swing doesn't it that it we kind of have to wait until Rome before we really feel like we get a proper litmus test of where everybody's at yeah and it sounds like Iga Shvantec is with me on that agenda because she can't wait to have the sun beating down on

25:16David Law: a clay court yeah definitely as form guides um I mean I think I think yeah in men's tennis um these last two weeks are so much more similar to what they're going to face in those last sort of three weeks of clay court tennis. But, you know, I definitely was encouraged for Svantec and I'm encouraged for Andreva as well because of what you've said there about it's okay to lose 7-5, 6-1 against Elena Rivacchina. It's okay to do that. It's okay to lose to lots of players, but there's a way to lose that doesn't concern you and a lot of the ways she's been losing over the last year have been upsetting really just for her, for anybody watching.

26:02David Law: She looks like herself again, you know, the kind of jokey side of her is out on show at the end of matches and I love to see it.

26:16Matt Roberts: With Heinz Guntart doing interviews. such a wild ride all of them you've got to have your wits about you holding my breath every time

26:31Matt Roberts: okay that is uh that is it for stuttgart i have to wait another year for a week of heinz gunnar on call interviews we head to rouen and the wth just last thing on that it's so funny that the other interviewer they have is petkovic yes like the contrast could not be more how do you think they decide you you do this one i mean maybe it's just a schedule thing yeah i don't know

26:57Catherine Whitaker: oh to be in the production meetings he was quoting all of mukova's bad stats at her in the on-court after she'd just won you know she like i thought she played it really well she made a joke of it like oh you're you're knocking my confidence in this interview kind of thing but yeah like Occasionally he'll ask a question that gets a really good reaction, but sometimes I am there thinking, oh, God, please, please don't ask that.

27:29Matt Roberts: You can feel it coming, can't you? Oh, big time. Sort of early on in the question, you know this isn't going well. OK, let's head to Rouen, the WTA 250 there. won by the top seed Marta Kostyuk following an all-Ukrainian final. She beat the 19-year-old qualifier who, quite frankly, I had not heard of before this week, Veronica Podrez, 6 '3", 6 '4", and had some incredibly powerful words to say after the match during the trophy presentation. She said this match today was not just a match. It was a historical moment for Ukrainian tennis, the first time two Ukrainians play in a final. I know how much work, sacrificed tears and sweat goes into this sport and to be able to be on this stage.

28:17Matt Roberts: So I'm incredibly proud of Ukrainian tennis right now. We have five top 100 players and I hope that this match and me and Veronica will be able to inspire more kids to try the sport, to pick up a racket for the first time and truly enjoy the emotion and passion and everything that this sport brings. she's incredible all week David Wyskoschuk

28:43David Law: yeah and and you know there were a couple of bumps in the road but she she managed to overcome them and I got the sense we were looking at a player trying to re-find herself after an injury layoff you know this is a player who's who's missed a lot of tennis really and you know she she got out there and, and just kind of, she was by far the, the, the, the highest ranked player. I mean, Serana Castella was the number two seed and, and she ended up having to pull out through injury late on, but, you know, she carried that weight really well. I felt Kostya, but she did it with it. Sometimes I watch her and I, I see a player who's so desperate to achieve that she sort of panics.

29:26David Law: She sometimes doesn't play as well as she can because she, it almost overwhelms her that her desperation to do well which is totally relatable um I think for anybody listening really but she managed to kind of contain that over the course of this week and she gets to this final I mean I must admit I I watched it and I felt just emotional when they walked out onto the court you know together and um you could tell it was a big deal um and and And actually, you know, it was not straightforward early on. I mean, Padres actually came out firing, and she's been somebody that I know has had a little dispatch on the barge regarding her backhand.

30:12David Law: Trying to grab Matt's attention. I'm doing it on his behalf. And I mean, look, it's a very spectacular shot. But, yeah, just the all-court ability of Kostchuk. She was the pedigree player in that field, really, and she asserted that. Spectacular isn't always what Matt goes for in a backhand.

30:37Matt Roberts: Would you care to comment, Matt? I would say the technique on it is a little too unorthodox for my tastes right now.

30:54Catherine Whitaker: but you know i'm happy to have another look at it

31:00Matt Roberts: that's big of you uh ann lee she almost did it matt so close in oh we had fun with that so many texts about ann lee on the group i i think i had to mute the chat

31:16Catherine Whitaker: thing is she will be kicking herself because she had cost you like okay costia could kind of done that thing that david was describing where like she'd sort of been so sort of uptight in that match after not having won it in two sets she served for it cost you to win it in straight sets then lost the second set tie break and suddenly was unraveling a bit was was you know sort of kicking her racket, slamming it down a little bit. And Anne Lee's up a break and has a point for a double break to go up 4-1 in that third set. Doesn't take it and then starts serving at 3-2. And that was when David tuned in and Anne Lee missed the easiest smash on top of the net you could possibly have.

32:03Catherine Whitaker: Like sometimes those are harder than they look. I really don't think this one was. she just mishit it and then that totally threw her off she barely played another good point in the entire match i think lost 10 points in a row to go from a breakup to a breakdown and that was that was a little the little tough period of the tournament that kostiak had to had to navigate and um and get through on on route to winning the title but yeah i do feel a bit like when I picked Kuzmova. Like I've picked the right trend, you know, an unexpected finalist. We had Padres. I was like, but I've just totally picked the wrong person and now it's going to live with me forever and people are going to be constantly coming through for Anne Lee.

32:50Matt Roberts: This is nowhere near as bad as Kuzmova. But we do need a new Kuzmova because Kuzmova's just not, I mean, she's not even called Kuzmova anymore. Yeah, maybe that makes it better that she's barely even a tennis player anymore. That's why she's playing a lot of doubles, isn't she? Kuzmova? Kronkakova? Maybe. Who can say?

33:11David Law: Matt's not even following the results anymore.

33:15Matt Roberts: OK, that's it for part one. We'll be back in part two to head to Barcelona in Munich to talk about the men.

33:24David Law: Today's show is brought to you by Vanguard. To all the financial advisors listening, let's talk bonds for a minute. Capturing value in fixed income isn't easy. Bond markets are massive, murky and let's be real, lots of firms throw a couple of flashy funds your way and call it a day, but not Vanguard. Vanguard bonds are institutional quality. Institutional quality isn't a tagline, it's a commitment to your clients. It means top grade products across the board. Vanguard's been in the game a long time and their scale gives them a serious edge. They're able to invest across all kinds of sectors, maturities and geographies, which means they can spot and act on opportunities that others might miss.

34:08David Law: So if you're looking to give your clients consistent results year in and year out, go see the record for yourself at vanguard.com forward slash audio. That's vanguard.com forward slash audio. All investing is subject to risk. Vanguard Marketing Corporation Distributor. Hi, all.

34:29Catherine Whitaker: This is Kim and Penn Holderness from Lifeline.

34:31David Law: Summer is here, which means it's officially travel season.

34:34Catherine Whitaker: And when you're out there making plans, you need somewhere reliable to stay.

34:38David Law: That's why Best Western is such a solid option.

34:40Matt Roberts: This summer, get 1 ,000 bonus points and a chance to win 250 ,000 bonus points.

34:45David Law: So wherever you're headed, make it count with this limited time offer.

34:48Matt Roberts: Life's a trip. Make the most of it at BestWestern.com.

34:51David Law: No additional purchase necessary for sweeps. See bonus points, T's and C's and sweeps rules for details and visit bestwestern.com for complete terms and conditions. As a small business owner, you're the CEO, the marketing team and the customer service rep all at once. I was recently talking to a shop owner who told me their worst nightmare isn't a slow day. It's the vanishing act. It's that moment you're inches away from a deadline and the Wi-Fi just disappears. We've all felt that pit in our stomach when the connection flares up right when it matters most. Your business is only as strong as your connection.

35:25David Law: AT &T Business is the reliable provider built for that exact brand of hustle, so you can stay focused on the work that builds your legacy. Powered by AT &T Business. Built to work. Get AT &T Business at business.att.com.

35:44Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast, where just before we head to Barcelona and talk about Art of Feast, a public service announcement to say that entries are now open for the second edition of the Mike Dixon Award. Now, you might remember this from last year. We talked about it on the show and the winner ended up being somebody that listens to the show and heard about this award, I think, via us. Hope I'm not tooting our own horn too much. but the Mike Dixon Award is open to any UK resident that is aged between 18 and 24 as of the 1st of June of this year. Entries opened this morning and the deadline for applications is 11.59 p.m UK time on Sunday the 10th of May of this year and it's an award for aspiring tennis journalists.

36:42Matt Roberts: Applicants must submit a 600 word feature on any tennis related subject plus 250 words explaining why they are entering and details of any current employment or studies and any previous media experience. And the prize is to receive an accreditation for one day at both Queen's and Wimbledon with the opportunity to write an article for the LTA and Wimbledon websites during their time at each event. You'll also be given a tour of the media facilities, at each of the tournaments and the opportunity to watch matches and attend press conferences. You'll be able to claim travel expenses for both trips.

37:22Matt Roberts: And last year we met the winner, Hannah Fitzpatrick, and she came to visit us on our set at Wimbledon, where we do our live shows there every year. And it was a real treat to meet her. And I think she had a great and very valuable and totally earned experience being the winner of that award, which has been set up in honour of Mike Dixon, the former correspondent, tennis correspondent for the Daily Mail who passed away while we were in Australia a couple of years ago. So it's a fantastic prize. Anybody that is thinking of entering or thinks that somebody they know or care about might get something from entering, then we'd encourage you to do it.

38:15Matt Roberts: It's a great thing. We're going to be part of the judging panel this year, which I'm very excited about. so if that sounds interesting to you then entries should be submitted to btjadixon that is btjadixon d-i-c-k-s-o-n at gmail.com we'll put all the we'll put the link and the details in our show notes you can also get details about the award and how to enter at btja.co.uk forward slash press room OK, let's let's do it, David. We've arrived. Let's head to Barcelona and the ATP 500 title one by one. Arta Feast 6-2, 7-6 in the final. His fourth career title but his first since Tokyo 2024 and crucially his first since that six-month layoff with a back injury that caused us so much worry and anxiety about the future of his young career.

39:23Matt Roberts: Well, since coming back, I think it's been six events now, David. he's reached the quarterfinals or better of every single one of them and now a title to well I'd say to crown it all but maybe this is just another stepping stone along the way to something bigger who can say but what a week what a moment what a set of performances from Artifice.

39:48David Law: Yeah I think health permitting I really do think it's a stepping stone on on the way to to greater things But it is significant in its own right. You know, he's not his first 500 title. He's won a couple of those. But I still can't quite get over the fact that he's doing this off. It's actually an eight-month absence if you just discount that little spell that he had in the summer when he played an event and he came back too soon and couldn't then play for that six months after that. I think that might have been the one in Canada. he didn't play really since the French Open when we saw him against Xiamé Mouna and I mean you expect him to just feel his way back in and look rusty and the only time he's looked rusty is when he's played Alkraz and Zverev and just basically they're just at another level than what he was and that's totally understandable and to come out here and do what he's done and to look the way he's looked as well I mean the way he hits the ball now I mean, how secure it looks on both sides.

40:53David Law: The only time he had a letdown against Rublev was when he was serving for it. And he just got nervous, got tight. And, I mean, he actually lost the first two games as well of the match. And again was just, I think, came out tight. And the moment he settled down, he won the next six games. He won the first set 6-2. And do you know the match felt like that one we saw in Australia between Fonseca and Rublev?

41:21Catherine Whitaker: I made the same note, David.

41:23David Law: When Rublev is hitting the ball as hard as he possibly can and Feast has just got another level. He's got another gear and he's just ending rally after rally with forehand or backhand winners. I think he had 20 forehand winners in the match. but you know at 5-3 he gets broken back at 5-4 he has love 40 and 3 match points doesn't win them 5-all then he gets broken he's 6-5 down and there's kind of panic in our WhatsApp group but I didn't feel like that for him because I just thought well he'll settle down in a minute and he's just a better player than Andre Rublev Andre Ruber's a very, very good player.

42:12David Law: I'm not trying to diss him. But Feast is another level altogether. And I mean, the match he played in the semifinals against Hodar, when I was watching that, I'm watching this and thinking, level-wise, these two could... I could definitely see these two meeting in the final of the 1 ,000 in the not-too-distant future because those are best of three. I think best of five...

42:39Matt Roberts: With the withdrawals in Madrid. Absolutely. I mean, I don't...

42:43David Law: You know, I just... The level they were playing, I mean, Hodar is kind of the only other guy I've seen stand up to feet and, like, take him on in a sharpshooting contest of hitting. And he's an awesome hitter, is Hodar. But eventually, just the sheer physicality of feet wore him down and just took over. Like, you have an arm wrestle of a match with Art of Feas. I think you're coming out second best against most players. And when I look at the list of players who might cause Alcraz and Sinner a problem, Feas, physically and game-wise, is right up there. I think the issue he's got is, at the moment, he just doesn't have a record of winning comfortable straight sets matches at Grand Slams.

43:34David Law: He hasn't won any of them. Never won a three-set match. in a Grand Slam. So that's what he's got to prove. But I tell you, he's going to be a French Open champion in the future, is Artifee's health permitting. It is health permitting. But I totally believe that. The revs he's getting on that forehand with speed through the air, there's not really any other like that now that Nadal's stopped.

44:04Catherine Whitaker: get get david on a french radio talk show because i feel like i feel like feces is really being talked about in france it's like debate happening in france like is he a is he a potential threat to sinu and alcares is he not you know like there's there's people having takes now on art of feces and he's he's going to be going into roland garras i think with that pressure on him which i think is going to be interesting and and something he's going to have to deal with but But I do love watching him. And I had the same feeling as David, as I said, about that Fonseca match. But the difference, as David's hinted at there, is that Fonseca's ball is fast.

44:44Catherine Whitaker: It's just an arrow, those ground strokes. Feces is fast and it's heavy. The way he loads it with spin, like I think we saw that in his match against Mazzetti as well. He was just ramming these massive forehands into Mazzetti's single-handed backhand. and he couldn't really cope. Okay, Mazzetti's not quite at his sharpest right now, but still it was like an overwhelming force from Feast. And I think to be winning matches physically, like he did against Rola, so quickly back into his comeback from injury, I think it's a really good sign as well. And I think the thing I love the most hearing from Feast this week was how he's talking about, he's really working on not getting too high during a tournament.

45:29Catherine Whitaker: I know you've talked about this and observed this before, David, like he'll have a big win. And then there's sometimes been a letdown the next match. You know, I think maybe a little bit physically, but mostly just like expending so much emotional energy. And he's really.

45:45David Law: And even within matches, these sudden shots up and then a crash, you know.

45:52Catherine Whitaker: And I think he's really working on that. He's identified that as as an issue, as something to improve. and yeah it was interesting hearing him talk about that this week and it felt like he did a good job this week and it's helped him get the title.

46:06Matt Roberts: Needs to do a bit more boring winning at slams doesn't he? As much as we love the sort of matches he has been winning at Roland Garrison elsewhere like he needs to do some routine

46:21Matt Roberts: forgettable wins in early rounds of slams.

46:24David Law: Yeah we definitely had those conversations about Alcaraz in the past And I feel like Goran Ivanovic is an ideal coach for this next stage of his career. The fact that, I mean, again, I always feel like I'm touching wood on his health because I can't believe this comeback. It's pretty unprecedented to come back and play like this, you know, consistently. But let's assume that that's in the past and physically he's OK. the next steps to be taken he has the perfect guide in my view um Goran by the way believes that he was looking at a top 10 player in Hoda as well he said he said you know within the next two years minimum he's going to be a top 10 player and and I know he feels like that about Feast but yeah just in terms of navigating early rounds I think Goran Goran's going to iron out some of the highs and lows, I think.

47:21David Law: But you've got to not take away their turbo because he needs that sometimes, that ability to just go for broke and just take it out of your hands. But his baseline level now of just, here's my backhand in the trade. You're going to feel it. And then if you put one on the forehand, the point's over. There's not money like that around in the game.

47:49Matt Roberts: Yeah, I felt like some of the body language from Rublev in the final and Muzetti in the quarterfinals really summed up the level of Artifis at the moment and the experience of playing Artifis. They were both doing that kind of, what am I supposed to do against this guy? Body language. They both looked so deflated and not humiliated. They both put up a decent fight, particularly Mazzetti. I did feel like, you know, aside from nerves, that was a pretty one-sided final, really. But they both looked powerless and they looked like they felt completely powerless against this guy. And that must just be an awful feeling on the court, especially for someone like Mazzetti, who's got so many tools in his kit and so many things he can try and resort to.

48:42he was looking like, well, I haven't got anything that's going to work against this.

48:48David Law: No, I mean, I share the view that I think he will come much closer in the future. I think he's playing a lot below his normal level. Yeah, Mazzetti, whereas Rublev, I think that is kind of what he's got. And it's a bit like, sadly, it's a bit like what's happened to Sitsipas. I know Sitsipas has got higher levels because he's got to Grand Sun Finals and nearly won them. but you know these guys have just Sitsubas has just drifted away and has just been overtaken by so many players Rublev I think we're just seeing what he's got and Mazzetti I think there's a lot of hope for the future because I know he can play much better than that I hope so I saw some quotes from Hodar by the way just trying to sort of not stop the hype train in its tracks but just

49:40Matt Roberts: trying to take the pressure off himself a bit like i think he's i mean of course he is but like he's aware of what's being said about him and he's just like give me time like let me yeah let me focus on my process here you know he's doing some unsexy quotes about process which i think is

50:01Catherine Whitaker: prudent and like it was it was noticeable watching him come up against feasts i think how much work physically there still is to do with Hodao right like his frame is just not that of a top player it's that of a of a teenager breaking through of course it is that's what he is so you know I've heard like Jim Currier talk about that with Fonseca as well like needing a couple of years to to build the power in the legs as much as anything and I think Sinner went through that that very important phase as well and you know occasionally you get you know I think Alcaraz a sort of broken what people think of is possible because he seemed to just transform in an off season.

50:45Catherine Whitaker: And, you know, even Feast came out very physically developed from a young age, whereas I think Hodder's just, he needs that time. But the ball striking is outrageous off both wings.

51:00Matt Roberts: Yeah, it's a bit like Sabalenka fixing her serve with Gavin McMillan in a week. Algoraz sort of inflating his upper body during one off season has sort of moved the bar for everybody else in a very unrealistic way.

51:18David Law: I would just, with Feast, I think the one reservation I would have is, look, he should have lost to Terence Atman in the first round. You referenced it in the show the other day and I watched that match and he was lucky to win that. You know, he didn't play very well. you've got to win when you're playing badly as well. I remember a year ago when he played Madrid he was like 5-1 up against Comissania and he ended up losing in the first round of that. So ultimately I think Grand Slams will be his friend because he will have time to work through a bad start and all those sort of things. And I think he'll learn how to assert his physicality and just overwhelm people quite comfortably.

52:04David Law: But, you know, that's going to be a work in progress.

52:08Matt Roberts: He's intending to play Madrid, isn't he? Is there any argument for not playing Madrid?

52:15David Law: I think in my sort of protective frame of mind, yes. I sort of think of it as like, well, isn't it just sensible to just, you know, have a week off, a couple of weeks off and just decompress and then play Roman. But no, I don't, I think unless he feels twinges, actually, and I think Goran, when we were talking about the Middle East swing, he wants him to get robust and get used to the tour life again. There's that element of it. So I remember when Alcraz first burst on the scene and we were having a lot of these discussions. And he was so awesome that the amount of winning he was doing was just rattling everybody else.

53:05David Law: And I do think Fies will be getting in other people's heads a bit.

53:09Matt Roberts: And he's at least kind of guaranteed himself a seeding now for Roland Garros, I think, hasn't he? He's up to 25 in the world. And maybe with a run in Madrid or Rome, he can elevate that a bit further.

53:24David Law: Tell you what, Hodar's going to be interesting at Laurent Jérimath. Everyone is interesting at Laurent Jérimath. But when that draw's made for Roman Garras, imagine if you're a top seed and you face Hodar first round. Don't know what rank's he now.

53:43Catherine Whitaker: He's broken the top 50, I think, hasn't he?

53:46Matt Roberts: Yeah. I don't think, I mean, unless he wins Madrid and Rome back to back, I don't think he's getting a seeding. I think he's providing some fun at l 'orangerie, barring something truly extraordinary happening in the next month. So, yeah. I sort of hope that's the case.

54:04Catherine Whitaker: Definitely. I want him to do well. You need one of those, don't you? At this moment now, I'd love him to be an unseeded element of that draw.

54:11David Law: You want to hear the...

54:13Catherine Whitaker: Exactly. Yeah. Give me a ooh-la-la.

54:19Matt Roberts: Munich, another ATP 500. This one was won by Ben Shelton. He beat Flavio Caballi 6-2, 7-5 in the final. Lots to say about Caballi, his win over Alexander Zverev. Straight sets in the semi-finals, an extraordinary performance, an extraordinary reaction to that performance. We'll come on to that in a moment. But Ben Shelton, David, is a dirtballer, brackets, sort of. I find it so impressive because he's not naturally that and yet he invests in it and he plays it and

54:59David Law: he reached the final of it last year you know he got I think I mean neither neither Matt or I picked him to to go all the way to the final in this tournament um and I think for me part of it is how comfortably he was beaten by Zverev in the final last year and I've seen him on a lot of clay courts and his game doesn't seem to have the same impact on opponents but wow what i love the way he just swaggers onto the court and just says here i am you know and he's just all over the place and he's just taking you on and he doesn't put any limits on himself um there was there was one moment in this match sort of back-to-back points when it was late in the first set he summed up to me what makes him truly special and probably unique the first one was him hurtling into chase down a drop shot and a lobs lifted over his head and I think Shelton is the only player on the tour who could have backtracked and hit a smash winner off this ball the sheer athleticism and power in the legs required to do it um was was was just awesome really um and then the next point caballi takes a sort of double service position to serve it as wide as he possibly can and he tries to put caballi in the to put shelton in the stands really this is onto the shelton forehand shelton takes two sort of bounds to his left and smashes this forehand down the line kind of over the high part over the net post into the postage stamp corner just a clean winner and again just kind of ambition of, yeah, I've got the wherewithal and the guts to take this on, and I'm going to make it, and there you are.

56:44David Law: So it was really impressive. I've kind of enjoyed, I know, I mean, Kabali's had a really tough time this last few days, which you'll come on to, but I like the fact that Shelton, I know we like a bit of aggro, and they had some late last year but I like the fact that these guys there's some camaraderie in the locker room you know they talk warmly about one another in the on the tour the same with Feast you know it's a it's it's nice for these young men I think to to just have a bit of friendship out there but yeah Shelton really

57:20Catherine Whitaker: impressed me and I think if you go back three years and watch Shelton's first steps on these clay courts as he was as he was playing that swing and you like and then watch him in the Munich final and whole whole week this week you will you will very obviously and they quickly see how much he has improved you know he was he was all over the place on the clay he didn't know how to move on it at all you know he's such a good athlete but normally like he's a great athlete like moving in one direction sprinting fast on clay you're constantly having to stop and change direction and and be strong so as to withstand the sliding and like it's just a totally different thing moving on a clay court to moving on a hard court and I think he's he's really improved that in in the last few years I still think like a sinner and Alcaraz will probably be able to expose him and and exploit some of the weaknesses but I don't know for someone like Shelton obviously he's absolutely hoping to break through and and beat those guys and and win grand slams but it's possible that Sinu and Alcaraz are going to do to a whole generation of players what the big three and Andy Murray the big four did and just shut shut you out from those big tournaments and then what you've got to do is is build a career outside of that and you can definitely say at the moment that Shelton is making the case for being the guy who's doing that the best, I would say.

58:50Catherine Whitaker: If you take out Sinu and Alcaraz, he kind of holds one of the best records over the last year in terms of the title he's won. He holds 1 ,000. He holds a couple of 500s. He's got different surfaces covered. And I'm really impressed with the way he's building that, even though his ultimate aim is to still break through. and I don't yet necessarily see it, but then I'm reminded by the fact that he is making these improvements all the time. And the clay actually can be quite a good surface for him because it gives him time on return. You know, like that is kind of his weakest part of his game. And yet he just steps back.

59:31Catherine Whitaker: He gives himself a bit more time on the clay and he can take those bigger cuts at the ball as Dave has described there with that one, that rocket forehand, he hit up the line. I just don't see him hitting that shot or being able to do that on a quick surface. But he's got it in his locker. Feast is similar, actually. He steps back and he's got so much power that he can still push opponents back, even from way back in the court. And Shelton can do kind of a similar thing. It's a different trajectory of ball. But I just think that sheer power, he's not hindered by the fact that he's so far back in the court.

1:00:07Catherine Whitaker: So, yeah, really, really good week for Shelton. And as David said, I didn't see it coming. And he definitely reminded me just the improvements he's made on the surface.

1:00:20Matt Roberts: Caballi, perhaps in the final, had hit a bit of a wall emotionally, probably as much as physically in his semi-final performance where he was absolutely unreal. It felt like a kind of exhibition performance. The winners he was reeling off against Alexander Zverev in that straight sets victory burst into tears upon sitting down in his chair after that win and was sobbing for considerable length of time. We knew he was bearing a heavy weight. He had done an Instagram post the day before and he had also put some markings on the sleeve that he wears on his arm in memory of a young boy, a 13-year-old boy we're hearing from his tennis club in Rome who he had heard had died that week and he was obviously tremendously affected by that absolutely awful news.

1:01:21Matt Roberts: And so, look, that's what was swirling around throughout this performance over Alexander Zverev, his first completed match win over a top 10 player, Kabali. And he's up to a career high of 13 in the world rankings now. And look, it's the big caveat, isn't it? if he can play like he did in that semi-final, he's a force to be reckoned with for anyone. The thing with Flavio Caballi is he quite often doesn't play like that and his floor level is really quite considerably off from his ceiling. But my goodness me, what a ceiling, David, and potentially a ceiling that's edging upwards.

1:02:13David Law: Yeah, because I think Zverev's shown this year that he's the floor guy. You know, he keeps on producing good tournament runs, and every week he runs into Yannick Sinner. And he doesn't have a ceiling that can overcome that if Sinner's playing well. And we saw a good impersonation of Sinner from Flavio Caballi in this match. The sheer fleet-footedness around the court, the preparedness to go down the line, particularly with the backhand, I think is absolutely key against Verev. some players can make Zverev look quite uncoordinated by wrong-footing him. Only the very best can do it, or only players playing at their very best.

1:02:58David Law: But I also think tactically it's really key to do it, because Zverev actually moves really well in certain ways. For his size, he moves extraordinarily well. And sometimes when you get into those long rallies against him, I often feel like he's going to produce his most audacious shot making. We saw some of it against Alcrest, some of the four-hand winners he hit when you think of him as the conservative guy. And what Caballi was doing was much more like what Sinner does, which is just keep playing the ball behind him, keep on taking your chance, pulling the trigger yourself, not getting involved in a trade, just a trade for trade's sake.

1:03:40David Law: because Vera will not break down very often in those situations. And Kabbali just jumped on everything and he moves so incredibly well. I do feel like... He's got more in him yet. He has got a better ranking in him than he has right now. He puts in some duffers performance-wise. I think he lost in straight to Tiafo the other week shortly after beating him. He beat him in maybe Acapulco and then he lost to him early, or at least he lost to him straightforwardly. and you're sort of thinking, well, how is there such a discrepancy between those two performances? But, yeah, Klay suits him down to the ground.

1:04:26David Law: I guess he's got to believe in himself and just keep being ambitious because it's all there, especially on Klay. I mean, the next month, you want to see him in a quarter-final or a semi-final of one of these tournaments, any one of the three.

1:04:45Matt Roberts: It's hard not to be a caboli guy, isn't it? It's good, isn't it? Yeah.

1:04:50David Law: He's likeable. He's a very likeable lad. Oh, yeah, I think he's a sweetheart.

1:04:55Matt Roberts: Yeah. OK, that is it for this week's tennis. Join us in part three when we will talk about a bit of news and we'll look ahead to, well, this coming week's, this coming fortnight's tennis in Madrid. Just before we take a very quick part two break, I've already mentioned it but we recorded our most recent episode of Tennis Relived last week about the history of the rankings which was such a fun ride and is up now for Friends of the Pod. If you are a friend and you want to listen or if you'd like to become a friend in order to listen the link to do that is in our show notes. You'd also get access to our upcoming live show on Wednesday night of this week.

1:05:42Matt Roberts: It'll be available as a pod, but we'll also be live on YouTube at 8pm to talk about tennis reform and what we would like to do to change the structure of the sport. None of it will happen, but it's still fun to talk about.

1:06:01David Law: Imagine when we get put in charge.

1:06:03Matt Roberts: Yeah, exactly. We just want to be prepared for the day that we are inevitably put in charge of the sport. And indoor tennis everywhere is under threat.

1:06:15Catherine Whitaker: We did get an email from someone saying that they shuddered at the phrase tennis reform, thinking we'd gone all Nigel Farag. Do just want to clarify, that's not what that is.

1:06:27Matt Roberts: Tennis reform UK.

1:06:29Catherine Whitaker: Yeah.

1:06:30Matt Roberts: Yeah, we are backing Britain. did make me laugh um just quickly on the relived show which i really really enjoyed i mean i always loved the relived shows um but this one was so interesting um and david had a little email pop

1:06:54David Law: into his inbox about it this morning yes i did from um a previous tennis relived subject or that of uh christine james truman um who won the french open in 1959 and um and and got in touch to totally out of the blue i i haven't spoken to christine i don't think since we did that wonderful show about her life and career a couple of years ago. But it was such a lovely moment to receive an email from her. I was really quite taken aback. And she said one of the subjects of the show would be players that had got to win in a match or very close to becoming world number one and had never quite made it.

1:07:45David Law: And we got players like Peter Korda and Petra Kvitova and several others that mattered, unearthed from over the years. I think we got Michael Chang, didn't we, as well, from the 1996 US Open. Well, Christine wrote in to us to say, Hi all, can I add that I was one match away from being world number one in 1959. I had won the French, Maria Bueno won Wimbledon, but I lost to Maria in the final of the US Open, which made her number one and me number two. so she got so close but she says best wishes best wishes christine in brackets truman bless isn't that wonderful absolutely wonderful so thank you christine go and listen to the show

1:08:33Matt Roberts: it's great yeah it is it's uh it's a good show absolutely love that okay that is it for part two we'll be back uh in part three in just a moment ai is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the 14500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows, and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com.

1:09:20Matt Roberts: Thank you for calling the Bombas Comfort Line. Bombas make socks, slippers, tees, and underwear made with the highest quality materials.

1:09:27David Law: Press 1 for comfort, 2 for style, 3 for donation.

1:09:30Matt Roberts: You chose style. Bombas is styles for whatever you enjoy.

1:09:34David Law: You can run in Bombas, lounge in Bombas, dress them up, dress them down, but always give back in Bombas. Because with every item purchased, another is donated. Bombas, comfort worth calling for. Go to Bombas.com slash audio and use code audio for 20 % off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com and use code audio.

1:09:53Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast, where before we turn our attention to Madrid and the draws that are now out just. We actually had a pause in recording so that Matt could look at and digest the men's draw in Madrid. Before we get into that for you, some news that broke a couple of days ago, just before the weekend from the tennis world, which is that Marketa Vondrosheva, the former Wimbledon champion, has been charged with refusing a doping test after what she calls an acute stress reaction. this from reporting by Charlie Echelsher in The Athletic an ITIA spokesperson has confirmed to The Athletic that Von Drozhova could face a ban of up to four years and that she's under investigation for an event which took place in December of last year Von Drozhova is free to play while under investigation on Friday afternoon she, Von Drozhova that is, issued a statement on Instagram detailing how a random visit from a doping control official caused an acute stress reaction, which she said prevented her from thinking clearly.

1:11:08Matt Roberts: The recent doping control incident happened because I reached a breaking point after months of physical and mental stress, she said. She added that when someone rang my door late at night without properly identifying themselves or following protocol, I reacted as a person who felt scared. In that moment, it was about feeling safe, not about avoiding anything. Experts confirmed that I suffered an acute stress reaction and generalized anxiety disorder. In that moment, fear clouded my judgment and I just couldn't process the situation rationally. After what happened to Petra, referencing Kvitova, the fellow Czech Wimbledon champion who was stabbed in her own home 10 years ago, she said after what happened to Petra we don't take strangers at our door lightly.

1:11:58Matt Roberts: Vondroshova who in another social media post at the time described the incident as a serious intrusion on my privacy said Friday that she was still working to clear her name. In response to this the ITIA spokesperson said we are aware of the player's comments we can confirm that an investigation is underway and the player has been charged with refusing a test. At this stage, we're not able to comment any further on the specifics. Von Drosheva has engaged the services of a lawyer who said that for years, Marketta has quietly endured toxic harassment, death threats and the physical toll of chronic sleep deprivation.

1:12:36Matt Roberts: This situation was a breaking point. The combination of this long-term burden and a doping control encounter that failed to follow standard safety and identification protocols triggered a medically documented acute stress reaction. In that moment, the process simply couldn't be completed. Malketa takes her professional responsibilities very seriously, but she is a human being, not a machine. We are certain that once the full context is understood, her name will be cleared. A date hasn't been set yet for the hearing. The case revolves around tennis's whereabouts rules, which state that for every day of the year, a player must give a location and time slot when they can be tested.

1:13:19Matt Roberts: Refusing one or failing to update one's whereabouts three times within 12 months leads to a player being sanctioned. So one refusal or three failures to update the system about whereabouts. Von Droschevist said in December that the tester arrived outside of the testing window she had given and also failed to identify themselves. In addition to their whereabouts submissions, players can also be randomly tested at any time, according to the tennis anti-doping protocol. The ITAA spokesperson said that this is because the organisation wants the testing process, the testing programme to be unpredictable.

1:14:04Difficult to comment until, you know, the case has been heard and we know the outcome.

1:14:11Matt Roberts: A lot of people will think a potential four-year ban for this sounds incredibly harsh. And I think there's probably definitely a lot of validity to that take. I mean, my personal feeling on it is punishments that feel very harsh are the price we have to pay for what we hope and consider to be a clean sport. I think it's possible to think that it's a potentially harsh punishment, but also a potentially right punishment if the case goes in that direction. But I still think it's possible to have a lot of, you know, sympathy for Marketa von Drosheva and what she's clearly going through. I think it's a very complicated thing where lots of people, lots of things can be true at once.

1:15:04Matt Roberts: I mean, I do think, let's say this case does result in a four-year ban, even a two-, three-year ban for Moketa Vondroshova. Optically, the sport does have a bit of a problem here where, you know, potentially you've got players actually testing positive for a banned substance in the case of Yannick Sinise and serving a very convenient three-month ban and a player refusing one doping test in a, in situations with potentially extenuating circumstances and receiving a four-year ban. Optically, that could be a tough look for the sport. Yeah, right.

1:15:48David Law: I mean, even the conversation feels quite tough in that regard, the fact that that is being aired. So get this investigation done and try to come back with a sensible response is what I hope that the authorities do. Do it properly, do it fairly. Because, yeah, I mean, I do have sympathy for her and at the same time share that view that nobody ever admits to anything. So how do you give the programme teeth? But I also don't I would hate to think that there was just going to be just some sanction given out without proper investigation, hearing the details. And also, like you say, without an actual positive test.

1:16:46David Law: I want to see this properly investigated. I'm glad they are. Yeah.

1:16:51Matt Roberts: I mean, I do understand why deterrents and punishments for refusing tests need to have pretty much as much teeth as those for testing positive. Like logically and kind of intellectually, I do understand that. But yeah, I still think that the optics of that potentially are rough for tennis. Luckily, you know, Vondroshova has considerable financial means, which we know helps when fighting these cases. You know, that is a big criticism of the current picture that how well you're able to fight your corner is so dependent on your financial status. But yeah, just one thing that occurs to me, and I am going to make inquiries about this with the ITIA.

1:17:41Matt Roberts: I don't know the gender of the testing control person that came to the door of Marketa von Drosheva, but I absolutely think that it should be female doping control officers that are assigned to do those house calls with female players. If that isn't currently policy, I think it should be. So I will make some inquiries on that front. OK, Madrid. Let's start with all the withdrawals because there are a lot of folks. Novat Djokovic is out on the men's side, as is Taylor Fritz, Francis Tiafoe and Giovanni Mpeshi Pericard, the wait for the big launch of the Greg Ruzedzky coaching situation. situation.

1:18:33Matt Roberts: The wait goes on. And most significantly, Carlos Alcaraz is out of Madrid. Now, we knew this at the time that we recorded, I think, last Thursday, Matt. We're hearing rumblings coming out about this wrist injury being bad, being certainly more than just an excuse to pull out of an event. He didn't particularly want to play anyway, or that's too reductive. I'm sure we'd love to play but perhaps didn't best suit a schedule tailored towards defending his Roland Garros title. I've just seen some quotes from Feliciano Lopez saying that he's hearing bad things about the Alcaraz injury and that it puts Roman down and maybe even Roland Garros.

1:19:18Matt Roberts: I take that with a pinch of salt personally because he's the Madrid tournament director and he's very motivated to make it look like this withdrawal has nothing to do with Madrid and everything to do with you know if Carlos Alcaraz possibly could play Madrid he absolutely would be there but it's Carlos Alcaraz and tennis is better for him being there and so of course we're worried.

1:19:45Catherine Whitaker: Yeah wow I don't really think that Madrid tournament director should be talking about what they're hearing about a player's injury and sort of stirring that up. I must say I was I was kind of more concerned when he pulled out of Madrid so far in advance like this. You know, I seem to remember last year the Madrid withdrawal came a little bit later. It was almost like a little bit, oh, it could have been, it could have been playable. This seemed like quite a clear indication to me that Madrid, not possible. And that to me is worrying and slightly changes the picture that I had on Thursday's show when we were talking about it with Barcelona.

1:20:30Catherine Whitaker: I would say my worry level, while not like a sort of 8, 9 or 10, has gone up that scale a little bit towards the middle with what this could mean for Arakrez's Real-Garros prep. I think there's an issue there that needs to resolve.

1:20:50Matt Roberts: In terms of the draw, Yannick Sinner is currently in it. I will still believe it when I see it personally. I know he's in Madrid, but I also know the Laureus Sports Awards are in Madrid and he's nominated and will be attending. So I don't know. I'm not saying I definitely don't think he's playing, but I still think he's a question mark until he takes to the court Yannick Sinner. But he's at the top of the draw. In the top half with him are Tommy Paul, Alex de Mino, Joel Fonseca, Rafael Rodar, Ben Shelton, Artifis, Valentin Vachero, Dorenzo Muzetti. And in the bottom half, we have Alexander Bublik, Stefano Sitsipas, Kaspar Rude, last year's champion, Francisco Sarundolo, Felix Auger, Eliassime, Daniel Medvedev, Lernitien, Flavio Gaboli and Alexander Zverev, who we know loves Madrid and does look to have a pretty good draw.

1:21:51Matt Roberts: Thomas Mahatch against Francisco Comissania is an interesting first round. Marin Cilic against Zizou Burgs. And Terence Atman against Mirmir Ketsmanovic. Who's winning Madrid? You're going to say it depends where the Yannick Sinner plays, aren't you?

1:22:10Catherine Whitaker: And would that not be a fair response?

1:22:13Matt Roberts: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's the only answer, isn't it? If Yannick Sinner doesn't play, who's winning Madrid?

1:22:23David Law: no idea that's what makes it fascinating it's it'll if if he doesn't play it'll feel like montreal toronto every year and and the last two winners of that were popper and shelton i think um yeah i mean just opportunities are out there i mean last year it was it was caspar rude beating Jack Draper in the final there. Yeah, I mean, to me, I always find those tournaments interesting, but there's always just that caveat in the back of my mind that, yeah, well, those two guys aren't there. But yeah, I mean, it should be Zverev, shouldn't it? It should be his chance to step up, and he doesn't hold a title right now, having lost the Munich title.

1:23:08David Law: He doesn't have a title at all, and yet he's been very, very consistent this year. He's beaten everybody, basically, except Senna. OK, last week he lost to Kabbali. So if Sinna's not there, it should be Zverev. Pressure's on.

1:23:26Matt Roberts: The women's draw in Madrid, a lot fewer big-name withdrawals there. Obviously, Mukova, we've talked about. Emma Raducanu is out as well. She hasn't played since Indian Wells now. Apparently, she's still recovering from the viral illness that she picked up in the Middle East, which is some weeks ago now. So we wish her well. And in terms of the draw, top half, Irina Sabalenka, Naomi Osaka, Belinda Bencic, Jasmine Paulini, Igor Svontek, Iva Jovic, Shmira Androva, Alina Svitolina. And the bottom half features Jessica Bagula, Marta Kostiuk, Victoria Mboko, Coco Goff, Amanda Anisimova, Madison Keyes, Yelena Ostapenko, Jung Chin Wen, and Elena Rabatkinner.

1:24:15Matt Roberts: And fun round ones include Yulia Putintseva against Teresa Valantova, Janice Chen against Maria Sakharie, Venus Williams against 20-year-old Spanish wildcard Caitlin Kevado, who was born and raised in Florida. You've also got Lois Boisson back in the draw, making her comeback with new coach Rick Vleeshowers. She saw Amanda Inesim overseas season last year and she thought I'll have some of that and incidentally Anissa Mova certainly not heard any coaching news from her maybe there's a big unveiling happening this week maybe someone will just pop up in her box but as of now Matt she's coachless

1:25:03Catherine Whitaker: yeah maybe maybe flying solo seems seems to have her dog in Madrid I think based on Well, who needs a coach when you've got your dog? Some Instagram content. So coach out, dog in.

1:25:17Matt Roberts: I never see her Instagram content because we share an Instagram channel. And obviously with stories, once you see them, they disappear. And obviously Matt's straight in there with seeing what Amanda and Samova's up to. He always gets in there first.

1:25:38Catherine Whitaker: You could seek it out. You could search it.

1:25:40Matt Roberts: And sometimes I do, but I've got to remember to do that. You know, I've got a lot going on. OK, who is winning Madrid on the women's side? You're going to say Sabalenka, aren't you? This is not a fun game this week.

1:25:55Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I mean, I would say Sabalenka. Loves Madrid. Has won it, what, three times, I think?

1:26:02David Law: She always looks as awesome as it's possible to look. Yeah, she does. In Wuhan, I said. and she does i've got wuhan in my mind as the other tournament that she looks awesome in wuhan and madrid i mean lots of places she looks awesome those two specifically i'll shut up now

1:26:25Matt Roberts: david let's change the subject and talk about ash our mascot for this episode ash is a little black british short-haired cat she does look really little i don't know if it's the perspective but she looks like I could hold her in one hand. Hannah May Whiting, Ash's owner, says we got Ash when she was one in December 2022. Ash had been at a cat cafe but wasn't really enjoying the social life with lots of other cats and people and joined us for a quieter life. Ash loves nothing better than playing with us and eating dreamies. She loves to sit right in front of the television, watch tennis and taskmaster.

1:27:06Matt Roberts: She is named after Ash Barty, one of our favourite tennis players. We love animals named after tennis players. Got a lot of questions about Ash's origin story at the Cat Cafe, Hannah, if you could get in touch. Like, can you just sort of go to a cat cafe and leave with a cat? Like, is that a thing that can happen? what happens to the cats at the cat cafe like at night where where do they go um and those are my two questions for now i think but i'm sure there'll be subsequent questions once i get answers to those anyway you've you've given ash a better life and um she looks like she's absolutely loving it i had a black cat growing up with gorgeous green eyes like that marmite so got a bit of a soft spot for them.

1:28:02Matt Roberts: So, love that. Thank you, Hannah. Hello to our mascots. Hello, Bodie, Maisie and Roger. Two final appearances yesterday for my, well, two final losses for my fantasy team members, but overall a good week, I'm calling it.

1:28:19David Law: Two final wins for me. I've overtaken you.

1:28:24Matt Roberts: Look, all I aim for, David, is mid-table mediocrity. Of course you have.

1:28:31David Law: I'm second it's going great

1:28:38Matt Roberts: well Bodhi I thought we were doing well so I think we should be you're third it's good I was feeling buoyant for me and Bodhi but yeah it's Maisie's week that's for sure Roger you're playing the long game

1:28:55Catherine Whitaker: it's not going well

1:28:58Matt Roberts: hello to our top folks and executive producers Greg, Chris and Jeff, Matt, let's have some shout outs.

1:29:05Catherine Whitaker: We have Jonathan Hood from Birmingham, Alabama.

1:29:11Matt Roberts: Hello, Jonathan. Don't we also sometimes have a Pamela Hood? I think you're right.

1:29:19David Law: I think we do. Jonathan, like Jonathan Stark, the 90s, no, is that 90s or maybe 2000s blonde tennis player with a mane of blonde hair who used to come alive at Wimbledon American

1:29:37Matt Roberts: I've never heard of this man but I believe you

1:29:42Catherine Whitaker: David's brought him up before I remember the main comment

1:29:45David Law: I got emails after it from other people who remembered him fondly

1:29:56Matt Roberts: I'm glad you remember him fondly because I I actually can't think of any other tennis Jonathans. But anyway, we've got one. So there we go.

1:30:06Catherine Whitaker: Johnny Marry.

1:30:08Matt Roberts: Yeah, there's some Johns and some Johnnies, but I'm struggling for Jonathans. But we've got Stark. Stark, he's in. Jonathan Jureko. Yes. Our colleague, JJ, from BBC Sport.

1:30:22David Law: Jonathan Overend, Sky Tennis commentator, and my old colleague at BBC Five Live.

1:30:27Matt Roberts: Yep.

1:30:30Catherine Whitaker: And our Jonathan today says, I've been listening to the show since January 2022. Haven't missed an episode since. My son, Holland, eight years old, and I listen in the car on the way to and from school. We love pulling for any and all American men and women. And he especially loves when you talk about some of his favorites. Taylor Fritz, Ben Shelton, Tommy Paul and Jessica Pergoula. So shout out Holland as well. Holland Hood

1:30:58Matt Roberts: what a name love that thank you Jonathan hello Holland we've also got

1:31:08Catherine Whitaker: Teresa from Tulsa Oklahoma hello Teresa

1:31:12Matt Roberts: like Valantova yeah very good Teresa says

1:31:19Catherine Whitaker: I discovered tennis while staying with my grandparents for a week in the summer of 1976 watching Wimbledon to escape the hot, steamy Nebraska summer. I was hooked. My all-time favourite player is Steffi Graf.

1:31:36Matt Roberts: I think Nebraska is where Andy Roddick was born. Yes, correct. Very good. There you go. I haven't got anything for Tulsa.

1:31:48Catherine Whitaker: You've already excelled yourself with... Thank you. Thank you very much. ...Valentone and Roddick. Yeah, we've owned it. And finally, we have Lindsay Hill from Atlanta, Georgia. And Lindsay says, Atlanta, Georgia is home of the most recreational tennis players per capita in the world. I think we've had this stat before, actually, about Atlanta. Lindsay says, this is largely thanks to the very popular Atlanta Lawn Tennis Association leagues. Shout out to my Sunday women's team, some of whom are listeners and all of whom are incredibly strong, smart, beautiful women. Wonderful.

1:32:31Matt Roberts: You've done it. What a shout out. Lindsay, like Davenport.

1:32:37Catherine Whitaker: Yes.

1:32:40Matt Roberts: Lindsay, Jonathan and Teresa, thank you very much indeed for being friends of the Tennis Podcast. If you'd like to become a friend of the pod, then the link is in our show notes. We will see friends of the pod on Wednesday for that show about tennis reform. Cannot wait. And we'll be back with a regular weekly show next Monday. No Thursday show this week because absolutely no tennis of consequence will have happened between now and Thursday. Thank you, two week long 1000 events. But we'll be back on Monday and we'll have a midweek show next week for you. And if you can't wait till then, we have a friend show coming your way on Wednesday.

1:33:24Matt Roberts: So thank you for listening, everyone. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network and we'll speak to you soon.

1:33:36David Law: As a small business owner, you're the CEO, the marketing team and the customer service rep all at once. I was recently talking to a shop owner who told me their worst nightmare isn't a slow day, it's the vanishing act. It's that moment you're inches away from a deadline and the Wi-Fi just disappears. We've all felt that pit in our stomach when the connection flares up right when it matters most. Your business is only as strong as your connection. AT &T Business is the reliable provider built for that exact brand of hustle, so you can stay focused on the work that builds your legacy. powered by AT &T Business, built to work.

1:34:12David Law: Get AT &T Business at business.att.com. This episode is sponsored by Michael's, your destination for all things birthday parties. We just had Lucky's first birthday, and it was so great to be able to go into Michael's and get everything.

1:34:25Matt Roberts: Of course, I knew they had craft supplies there, but I didn't realize how expansive their party supplies were. And Michael's really is where you can go to get everything for a party, whether you're planning a kid's birthday or even an adult celebration. They've got

1:34:37David Law: over 4 ,500 party supplies, more than 60 different themes, and prices starting at just 99 cents.

1:34:44Matt Roberts: Plus, they've recently lowered prices on hundreds of items. We found adorable decorations, balloons, everything we needed to pull the party together without making a bunch of different shopping trips. Plus, I always have a good time going to Michael's.

1:34:56David Law: I love shopping there. I could just browse the aisles forever.

1:34:59Matt Roberts: But if you're short on time, like I always seem to be, you can also get

1:35:02David Law: same-day delivery or buy online and pick up at the store. They even offer free helium inflation

1:35:08Matt Roberts: on select balloon styles, which is such a lifesaver, and it was for our party, truly. So if you've got a birthday coming up or just a celebration, remember Michael's Everything to Celebrate Anything.

1:35:21David Law: Visit Michael's in-store or shop online now.