As world events unfold, what happens to tennis?

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1:00Matt Roberts: that matters most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com. This episode is presented by ServiceNow. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com.

1:15David Law: This is Tom Charlonzio from Herndon, Virginia, outside of Washington, D.C.

1:20Catherine Whitaker: My favorite tennis players of all time are Rafa Nadal, Monica Seles, and Garbine Muguruza. The favourite tennis podcasters of all time are Catherine, Matt and David. You are listening to the amazing tennis podcast.

1:47Matt Roberts: Well, hello and welcome to the tennis podcast on this first Monday of March. much spring has sprung. The sun is shining and Tom has just given us an absolutely delightful intro to today's show. Thank you, Tom, whose intro there was a surprise gift from his clearly very lovely and thoughtful wife, Susan. And if you'd like to be a thoughtful husband, wife, partner or friend, then the link to become a friend of the pod is in our show notes as always. Matt Roberts is here. He's having tech issues, but he's also still riding high from watching Fulham beat Spurs. So it is swings and roundabouts for Matt today.

2:33Matt Roberts: How are you doing?

2:35Catherine Whitaker: I'm very well, thank you. Yeah, a bit on edge because things were going swimmingly. And then 10 minutes ago, I had inexplicable tech issues and have delayed this recording. But at the moment, things are OK. And I have watched the highlights of Fulham's goals about 10 times already this morning. so feeling good about that. Big week, got two more home games coming up this week.

2:57Matt Roberts: Big week for Matt Roberts. We don't mention football to David at the moment but the good news for David is no tech issues for you.

3:05David Law: Yeah.

3:05Matt Roberts: Congratulations.

3:07David Law: Also good news, no football this midweek so the less of it the better as far as I'm concerned. But yeah, let's concentrate on the Seahawks, shall we? It's about four weeks ago that they won the Super Bowl but I'm still happy to talk about that.

3:22Matt Roberts: Yeah, I think that is fair enough, David. And if any sports fans out there have any sort of manifesting in them, then please manifest good things for West Bromwich Albion because, my goodness me, it is needed. And the tone and mood of our French Open shows might depend on that manifestation, quite frankly. Now, this has been one of those weeks where, unfortunately, you're reminded that as much as tennis and maybe sport in general would like to exist in a bubble, impenetrable by world events, that notion is a fantasy. is sadly not going to be possible to talk about the tennis this week without mentioning some of the very dark things that are happening in the world, particularly in the Middle East, where Iran began firing retaliatory missiles at US bases in Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates following American-Israeli strikes on Tehran on Saturday morning.

4:26Matt Roberts: Saturday, obviously the day of the scheduled Dubai singles and doubles final in the ATP 500 event. Dubai's airport was damaged in the initial strikes. Its airspace was closed and remains closed. And the situation is very much ongoing. Now, obviously, in the medium to longer term, there's going to be some pretty serious attention and conversation around tennis's relationship with the Middle East, which is pretty deeply entrenched. And, you know, strong rumours that it is scheduled to become even more deeply entrenched with the Saudi Masters 1000 event, apparently kind of poised to be announced.

5:09Matt Roberts: And frankly, the region may never be the same again, or certainly not for a long while. And that is a conversation that is going to come up and is going to recur, I think. But in terms of the immediate situation, we have roughly 40, we think, ATP players and staff stranded in Dubai right now. The latest updates we're getting on this are from Reem Abelil in the region. She says players including Rublev, Medvedev, Greekspor, Helievara, Patton, Aravalo and Pavic and their coaches are still in Dubai, along with officials, a couple of tennis journalists, myself, Sesrim, and the tournament stenographer.

5:55Matt Roberts: DDF, that's the Dubai Duty Free, were kind enough to extend our hotel stay until March the 4th. So that's Wednesday. And we're well taken care of, she said. I left the hotel today and I'm staying with a friend in Dubai. There have been missile drone interceptions across Dubai. But we've been safe so far and are just waiting for the airspace to reopen. And we understand that players are all booked on flights out of Dubai on Tuesday. So tomorrow post 3pm, which is the current kind of not before time, if you like, for the for the airport and the airspace reopening. But whether whether that actually ends up being when the airspace reopens, we don't know.

6:42Matt Roberts: We've read reports that there are potential options for getting out of the region via Oman or Saudi Arabia, traveling to either of those destinations by ground. Oman is closer than Saudi Arabia and then being able to get out that way via airports and airspace that is open. But roads are very congested getting to those places. Borders are very congested. Licences are needed to cross borders. it's not that simple, quite frankly. So as of recording right now at 9.30am UK time on Monday morning, players and tournament staff stranded in Dubai. And it's not a situation that as of this moment, the tournament have acknowledged.

7:31Matt Roberts: We haven't had a, publicly I mean, we haven't had a statement from the tournament. In fact, what we had, David, extraordinarily, was the doubles final. going ahead as normal. I mean, not as normal, but trying to pretend as normal on Saturday. And that was an incredibly dystopian situation.

7:56David Law: Yeah, I was staggered, really. I woke to the news of these airstrikes and the retaliatory missiles coming into the Middle East. And I kind of also was hearing at the same time, you know, the other relatively minor news by comparison of the fact that the singles final wouldn't be going ahead because of injury. But then I just flicked on the doubles, which had its stream there. And, you know, I'm used to double screening tennis matches. Here I am double screening the news um showing missiles being shot down over dubai and then on my other screen the dubai doubles final presentation the match point watch the match point and then the doubles present they built a stage catherine they built a stage to to hold a presentation on whilst whilst this was going on look it was it was um it was a pretty empty stadium there was no nothing alarming on that screen that that made you think oh no it was something terrible is about to happen but that at the same time you know in the region that there is so i was really shocked that this was happening um maybe that is just maybe that's normal maybe that's part of their uh tournament crisis plan and and they've got various stages and alerts i i don't know and one of the reasons i don't know is because they haven't said anything and i i've contacted the ATP.

9:28David Law: I've sent emails to their communication staff. I've yet to receive a response. Now, those were sent over the weekend. Maybe the answers will come in today. It's Monday as we talk to you. But we're still in the dark as to why they felt it okay to go ahead with that doubles final when airspace was closed in the area. And certainly the UK advice to anybody in the area was to stay in a safe place and not go about your business as normal. So I'm sure there's an explanation and I'm sure that they will have one that will make sense, but I don't know what it is. Yeah.

10:14Matt Roberts: Has there ever been a greater sort of physical manifestation of fiddling while Rome burns than building a stage on the tennis court while missiles are being intercepted overhead? I couldn't quite believe what I was seeing. And of course, those players involved in the doubles final and their teams are some of those that are currently stranded in Dubai. And Harry Heliovara has been providing updates on his blog. I mean, it does sound like everybody behind the scenes is being treated incredibly well by the tournament. I mean all the players we've heard talking about this are being remarkably sort of calm and accepting of the situation but the fact that there's been no public acknowledgement from the tournament Matt does feel pretty odd at the moment from where we're sitting.

11:09Catherine Whitaker: very strange I would say I think the only public communications on the day was about the fact that the singles final was not going to be happening due to the injury of Weeksport and yeah otherwise it was just a vacuum of information and clearly they're focusing on the players that they've got there and looking after them and as you said all of their reports are positive but I'm very surprised at the lack of statement and explanation of the day's events on Saturday really. And look we will, as I'm sure everybody listening for various different reasons,

11:54Matt Roberts: we'll be keeping a very close eye on the situation and we'll keep you posted. In terms of the tennis as Matt's just hinted at there, there was no singles final because Talon Greekspool withdrew ahead of it, which was not a surprise given how his semi-final against Andrei Rublev ended with him on one leg. It was one of those where there was a post-match interview afterwards with the excellent Richard Connolly on the world feed. And of course, he's obliged to ask, you know, and what about the final? A bit of a look ahead to that. How do you feel? and Talon Greeks Ball's answer was, well, I'm going to need two legs if I'm going to play that.

12:38Matt Roberts: And you sort of went, oh, right, OK, that match isn't happening then. Great. So, yeah, not a huge surprise that this final didn't end up going ahead, but a tremendous disappointment, obviously, because we didn't get a final. Although we now know that final would have ended up being played in dystopian circumstances. so maybe that was a blessing in disguise. But anyway, disappointing that there was no final, but also gutting really, Matt, that one of the best bits in tennis has not only ended, but ended in the most damp squib manner imaginable.

13:20Catherine Whitaker: I actually had a slightly different take on that in that I think it's a little bit funny that it's ended in this manner, right? Do you think this is perfect? You can just sort of labour the language now and change the language a bit and say, oh, he's never won championship point at the same event twice, right? Like in some weird circumstance, in my mind, the record is still alive. What is the record now? Well, he's now won Dubai for the second time. This is Daniel Medvedev, by the way, that we're talking about. who up until now had won 22 titles in his career

14:02Matt Roberts: and never, all in different places, all different events. He'd never defended or repeated a title.

14:11Catherine Whitaker: He's also only got one Dubai trophy because he said the Dubai trophy he got last time broke when it arrived at his.

14:18Matt Roberts: So I see you, Matt, you're looking for loopholes.

14:21Catherine Whitaker: Big time. Because like you, I was obsessed with this record and I loved it so much. And it is a bit of a shame that it's ended.

14:33Matt Roberts: I found it a shame in Australia when he disclosed that one of his goals for the year was to break this record. Because I thought he might be as into it as we are and actually have the opposite goal, which is to obviously continue winning trophies, but never win the same one. Try and win all 64.

14:50Catherine Whitaker: one again yeah exactly like um like football fans who try to go to all the grounds in the in the football league in england medvedev trying to collect all the trophies yeah yeah like yeah but no you're right i think in the fullness of time i will see it as a bit of a shame but at the moment i'm desperately trying to cling on to the fact that they're like obviously he's won the title i'm not i'm not trying to take the title away from him but i'm i'm just trying i'm just trying to find a way to keep the stat alive, even if it's with an asterisk. That's okay for me.

15:28Matt Roberts: We watched quite a lot between us, I think, of Medvedev's tennis this week in Dubai. I was pretty impressed with it, but then I also have in my head what happened last year in Dubai and the show we did after it, which was Stefanos Tsitsipas winning the title and the big discussion about, okay, is this the start of Tsitsipas being back? answer categorically no. I mean, he's more in the wilderness than ever. He lost in his first match last week and is now outside of the world's top 40. It's a pretty tough scene for him. So I'm wary, but I also do see positive signs in Daniel Medvedev's tennis, David.

16:13Matt Roberts: Where do you stand on how potentially back Daniel Medvedev is?

16:18David Law: Well, if you didn't know the rest of the context of his last couple of years and you just saw this, you'd just think it was normal Daniel Medvedev because he looked as good as ever, really. I mean, he was brilliant. He was so solid. He was quick. He looked really up for it. He was trying to impose his game as well. He was posting really one-sided scorelines, which he always used to do. I mean, I think the match against Felix Ogiali I've seen was a little bit deceiving because Felix was injured. He sustained an injury during that match of some description. I mean, he got his knee strapped. He didn't look right.

17:04David Law: But at the same time, he was hitting some great balls. And Mevideva was just soaking it up and then turning the tables, as he would so often do. And when you came to the net, he always used to be so brilliant at diffusing anybody's net game. If they came forwards, he would find a way past them. And this was a bit of a throwback, really, in that regard. And, yeah, I'm always taken by players' scorelines as little indicators of how well they're playing. And his was, yeah, really one-sided. But you're right, this is exactly how I felt a year ago watching Sitsapass. It was just, oh, you know, it's great to have Sitsubass back, isn't it?

17:44David Law: It's great to have Medvedev back now. I am now hesitant to say that, particularly because it's only two or three weeks ago that he looked so terrible against Lerner-Tien. I mean, Tien was great that day, but I don't know what we're going to get in Indian Wells. I mean, obviously, there's a big question mark over Medvedev's participation in Indian Wells, given that he's in Dubai right now, and who knows when he gets out. but just more generally about his game. I don't know what's coming off his racket from week to week and that's the big question mark.

18:20Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, to me, that's still the big difference from the Medvedev today compared to the Medvedev when he was at his peak, when he was so consistent and you knew what you were going to get. I think the steps that Medvedev's made in the last six months or so since the US Open, to me, make this a little bit different to Sitsapas in Dubai last year. I feel like there's a little bit more body of work to suggest that he's at least back on the right path, if not back. I think one thing I would say is that the two weeks of the year he's looked the best this year have come on, I think, the fastest courts he's played on in Brisbane and in Dubai.

19:02Catherine Whitaker: And I do think he then talked about then turning up in Melbourne off the back of Brisbane and suddenly his game wasn't quite able to have the same impact that it had been having. And I think he is partly at the stage of his career now where he needs a bit of help from the conditions and from the court. And he certainly had that in Dubai and in Brisbane this year. I think he's 6-1 now, Medvedev, in his last seven against the top 20. he's become able to beat some of the very best players in the world again pretty consistently I think he's more prone to the occasional dud than he used to like the performance against Sitsapas just last week like the loss against Tien Umber beat him pretty handily the other week he's still not getting that consistency as I said and he's definitely less dangerous against the very top guys than he used to be at his absolute peak, of course, as well.

20:00Catherine Whitaker: But he does at least appear to have got back to being able to beat top 20 players again. And remember at the end of last year, we were talking...

20:08Matt Roberts: Until Leonard Tien becomes a top 20 player. Right.

20:12Catherine Whitaker: Then that record is going to shit. And he's got a curiously bad record, I think, against lefties as well. As, you know, Tien and Umber this year have both beaten him. But, you know, David's right. His scorelines this week were so impressive against good players. Shang, Wawrinka, Brooksby, Uge Ali Asim. He definitely was the standout player in Dubai. Maybe Greeks ball as well. But we talked last year, can he get back to the ATP finals? That's how I was thinking about Mephadev. That was the over-under. I wasn't thinking about him in terms of winning Grand Slam titles again and getting back to the top two or three in the rankings.

20:54Catherine Whitaker: It was, can he get back in the top 10, top eight? And I do think he's trending okay in that direction with a couple of titles under his belt already this year. It's been a good start, I would say, to the year, but he's coming into a tough portion of the season for him now because, as David said, he might not get to Indian Wells, then he's just got Miami, and then it's the clay. And I know he has won a title on clay, But, you know, I'm not picking him to win many on that surface.

21:28Matt Roberts: He's the anti-David Lord. David is salivating at the prospect of the clay court season being around the corner and Medvedev is head in hands about it. Tough scene for Talon Greeks, Paul Kierke. My goodness me, he's playing some good tennis. and it sounds like the injury that he sustained against Rublev is quite a serious one. I mean, there's multiple reasons why Tanan Greekspor isn't making it to Indian Wells. So we wish him well because, I mean, I watched the match he played against Jakub Menchik with Menchik's win over Yannick Sinner present in my mind And the way he served in that match, he just looked unplayable when he was serving like that.

22:20Matt Roberts: And Greeks Paul just handled his serve like it was nothing. He's just batting it back like it was my serve or yours, David. He really was in some form last week, so that's tough. Are you about to contest that? No. I do feel like I've got off lightly there.

22:44Catherine Whitaker: I definitely think Grigspor could make my serve look like nothing.

22:48David Law: He does have that lovely timing, does Grigspor. And actually, that was a bit of a feature of the week, I feel, of, and we'll come on to talk about Acapulco, the tennis I saw there, players that rely on good timing who just had it and they were at the latter stages.

23:08Matt Roberts: Just before we move on to talk about Acapulco, feel like we should touch upon Jack Draper. This was his tour-level return this week in Dubai. Probably about par in terms of results, in terms of what you might expect from him. Won his first match against Conte Alisse and then lost out in a really tight one to Arta Rindeknesh. First of all, what did we think of his tennis? How he looked physically? How sharp his game looked? what we think of the buzz cut. All of the above, David. I know how you feel about the buzz cut. Yeah, I like the buzz cut. He wears a hat though on court, doesn't he? Yeah.

23:51Catherine Whitaker: It loses the effect of it on court.

23:54Matt Roberts: I'd say Vauri, this is their big sort of, I don't know, I don't know what Vauri's up to, but they're fumbling the ball big time, I'd say. it was a big sort of lost property energy about his outfit i i thought his game looked in pretty

24:15David Law: good nick really considering he's been out this long um he looks absolutely exhausted a couple of times but then i'd also expect that the sort of the stress energy that you use up you you just You can't really prepare for that. But I thought the game was in good shape. He lost matches that I think he can come out of. And as long as there's no physical setback, I think he can think, right, there's another building block. There's another building block. You've got to do it. I know a couple of weeks ago we had Art of Feast reaching the final, but I don't feel that that is representative of what you should expect when you come back from injuries of this length.

24:58David Law: I think Arta played particularly well and played opponents not playing the level that he was up against just now. Jack.

25:06Matt Roberts: Yeah, I thought his game looked pretty sharp, Jack Draper. I mean, talk about it's not a crime to be locked in. Like, he looked absolutely ravenous for the competition, didn't he? Like it really makes you, well, I mean, hopefully that's behind him, but realize not that not that he necessarily needed to, but it really hits home like how tough it must be for him to be on the sidelines because he clearly just lives for that competition. like you can see he needs it and it's like he'd been starved of it it was like a sort of hungry man in the desert that had found some prey you know so watching a nature documentary except with

25:58Catherine Whitaker: shit clothes and a new service motion then yeah what do we think of that matt i was quite impressed with it actually how well it how well it stood up i mean the matches he played at least and rindner kinesh they were they were defined weren't they by players serving well you know rindner kinesh in particular in that match his serve was unbelievably good again another one i think helped by the fast conditions in dubai and probably jack was as well with his serve but you know it looked it looked fairly smooth and natural and i'm trying to work out still i think it's maybe a bit of both in terms of trying to make the change in terms of protecting his body but also presumably trying to get a bit more out of the serve as well.

26:42Catherine Whitaker: I think it's probably a bit of a two-fold change. But yeah, look, he served well. It was the return game that wasn't quite as sharp. But as I said, it was very good serving from his opponents. And yeah, I was pretty encouraged for Draper. But again, talk about coming into a part of the season. He's just coming into a part of the season where he's just got so many points to defend. And I could imagine it being one of those where he's going to have to try and view it positively, that he's back on court and he's hopefully getting some wins while his ranking is probably going to be falling, you know, because it's unlikely that he's going to be able to defend Indian Wells and reach the final of Madrid and, what was it, second week at Roland Garros as well.

27:27Catherine Whitaker: The bulk of his points are from this period and that tension between trying to take positives while seeing your ranking fall, most likely, barring an absolutely incredible return is going to be a challenge I think sort of mentally for him but I back him because as you said I think he's just so so ready to be back on tour that he will see those positives

27:50Matt Roberts: It's weird isn't it because his ranking is relative to the time he's been off taken a very minimal hit but that's because of sort of how condensed the points that he accumulated were in this period that's just coming up. He's done a big interview with Charlie Eccleshire in The Athletic. David, you've had a little read of that. I mean, we spent a lot of time with Jack Draper quite recently. What did you learn from that interview?

28:24David Law: Yeah, I mean, first of all, I think it comes as no surprise to us to see him desperate for that competition because of the time we spent with him. But that also does come across in this interview. And he talks about how he doesn't find relaxing easy. He doesn't find sort of putting his feet up and watching TV easy. We heard all about that.

28:46Matt Roberts: Because he didn't know about the traitors, David.

28:49David Law: Yes. I mean, we still need to find out how that's going.

28:52Matt Roberts: Saffing around watching Silent Witness.

28:55David Law: Exactly. but he said that he's had to almost take on a different philosophy to his training because he actually referenced how because he used to be smaller and he felt like he got a lot of catching up to do physically he really trained voraciously and ferociously in the way that he did it and actually that's probably what's led to this injury and that it's kind of a load thing. And he's had to kind of get, except in his mind, no, I've reached physical maturity. I'm in a man's body now. I'm as strong as I'm going to be. I've got to change things. This is what he was saying to Charlie. I listened to the interview as well.

29:38David Law: Charlie sent me the audio of it. It was a really good conversation. And he just sort of said, I've got to concentrate on the tennis now. And he's got his new coach with Jamie Delgado, talks about the approach that they want to take and go to the net more and all those sort of things, things he hinted at with us but um yeah i got the sense that he's sort of absolutely ravenous as you say but he's also got in his mind i've got to hold myself back from going full on all the time because that's gonna be what hurts me um and by the way he does like his haircut he was a bit disappointed by his hairline when he discovered what it looked like um so uh yeah read all about

30:21Matt Roberts: it in the athletic okay it's an interesting revelation i mean sometimes i'm by absolutely no means suggesting this is what's going on here but i i do know that a head shave is a it's a it's a precursor to a hair transplant often when celebrities pop up with a shaved head it's it's because that's what you have to do prior to a to a trip to turkey i mean harry styles is just is admitted that's what he's done not that there's any and you know admitted as if it's some great great shame good good luck to them all but just just stating facts over here gotcha yeah i'll remember that if ever i need to anything to add matt no no um

31:14Catherine Whitaker: I still think it's a shame the haircut the hair

31:18Matt Roberts: yeah

31:19David Law: yeah

31:22Matt Roberts: quickly I hope for everyone's sake but I think there's going to be yeah I think he looks a bit threatening that's the point he's a big guy he's got that it's the tattoo he's got that lightenbolt tattoo yeah it's good he's wearing a sleeveless shirt

31:38David Law: opponents are going to be terrified fantastic Fantastic.

31:42Matt Roberts: Just like the army in our crowd. David, how would you feel if your son, in a few years, rocked up with that hair and a big lightning bolt tattoo on his sleeveless arms? He had one in the summer. He had one of those haircuts in the summer. I thought it was cool. Combined with a big lightning bolt tattoo.

32:01David Law: I think that would be quite cool, actually. If I could pull it off. I mean, you've got to be able to pull it off, haven't you? If you've got the guns to go with it, cool.

32:11Matt Roberts: okay

32:12David Law: I would have done it if I'd come

32:14Matt Roberts: learning new things about your preferences in the tattoo world all the time David what other preferences have I got?

32:24Catherine Whitaker: Hulk

32:25David Law: oh yeah the Hulk yeah exactly see it's all of a similar genre

32:32Matt Roberts: speaking of the Hulk let's head to Acapulco and a huge week for Flavio Caballi himself and Caballi guys everywhere. Our faith has been rewarded. He's won the title. He's won 500 sweet, sweet points. He's played brilliant tennis. He beat Francis Tiafoe in the final, a thrilling final, 7-6, 6-4. The only set he lost all week was a tight one to Mirmi Ketmanovic. it was a brilliant week from Flavio Caballi played some thrilling tennis it is so unfortunate for get the violins out for us us in the UK that we're able to watch basically none of Acapulco live because not only is the time zone very unfavourable for us, the hours in which they play the tennis because it's so hot in Acapulco it's all condensed into sort of an extended evening session so it's not even still on in the morning when we wake up.

33:38Matt Roberts: So we're kind of reduced to watching this one just for our highlights, which means that I think it's been like one of the all-time great weeks of tennis because I've only seen the best bits of it and they looked amazing. I now think that Flavio Caballi is going to win everything from here on in, David.

33:57David Law: Yeah, Flavmania is up and running wild. I mean, honestly, he was awesome over the course of the week. And the final, I mean, I really recommend watching the tennis TV 20-minute cut of highlights that they did on him against Francis Tiafoe, which I feel showcased the very best of them both in terms of, not just because it was highlights, but because of the way they interacted as tennis players. You've got somebody in Tiafoe who has to mix it up and play all sorts of different looks of tennis and Gabali, who has got to be in the run-in now with Alcras and Dimonov for fastest player on the tour, I think, in terms of just movement around the court.

34:45David Law: I mean, he gets to things that you just think are gone. He hit so many running forehands in that final cross-court. They had me jumping out my seat because it took me back to Pete Sampras in the 90s, watching him do it. I did not know he had a shot quite as devastating as that on the run. It's almost as if you get him on the run, you're in trouble. Keep him in a certain corridor down the middle and you might be all right. But it's interesting watching him because he's got some sort of showtime about him. And he's needed a bit of a launch pad in this early part of the season like he needed last year.

35:28David Law: He just couldn't get going last year. He couldn't get going this year. And now it's suddenly happened. I think we're still to see the best of him because we haven't seen this at the Grand Slams quite like this. We haven't seen it at the real 1000s against the top players. I've seen him play Zverev, for instance, and just kind of look small. I mean, I know he isn't as big physically as Zverev, but he's looked dominated by him. And I feel like there's a guy that actually has his own ability to impose. and he's shown it this week. I know it's not quite the level that he'll need to get to, but that was a bit of a show-stopping week.

36:11Matt Roberts: There is something of the Alcaraz light about Flavio Caballi, I think, in lots of ways. He's sensitive, I think, Caballi, and he lets you know what he's feeling. There was a really, really endearing little... A couple of interviews last week in Delray Beach, She referenced his girlfriend, his longtime girlfriend, whose name actually escapes me. Apologies for that. But he said basically he she's she's got a job, lives back in Italy. But he had such a tough start to the year. He basically said, I need some moral support here. Please could you would you mind coming out and hanging out with me for a couple of weeks?

36:54Matt Roberts: And she did. And obviously Delray Beach was where he turned his season season around pretty much. I mean, he had lost to Arthur Ferry, Luke Anardi and Jack Pennington-Jones. Those were his three consecutive losses after, you know, before Delray Beach, he'd won one match all season and it was against a 40-year-old and he'd squeezed it out, to quote Mary Carrillo. It was not going well. Squirted it out. Squirted it out.

37:26Matt Roberts: and in the midst of that run of embarrassing defeats he'd got himself a hulk tattoo like it was a chaotic it was shaping up to be a chaotic year for Flavio Caballi and he hits the panic button he asked his girlfriend to come out because he's having a crisis of confidence and he told us about that um and he said oh she's had to go she had to go back home now because she's got a because she's got a job. But I really like that about him, Matt. He's not trying to be the hard man. Like he's an excellent tennis player. He lets us know how he's feeling. It is very Alcaraz-esque, I think.

38:07Catherine Whitaker: And he spoke, I think, in the Italian press about, yeah, the off-season was hard because he was the hero at the end of last season, right? getting them the Davis Cup and a lot more attention on him, a lot more demands on him. He did do a training block, didn't he, with Carlos Alcarez. Their expectations were high and suddenly you get to the Australian Open and you've got the watery shits in your first match and everything's...

38:38Matt Roberts: First match on the first day and you've got the watery shits. And everything's thrown off. It was so bad.

38:47Catherine Whitaker: so yeah really good that he's managed to reset this week and I think I think that the secret in terms of as a tennis player to being more like Carlos Alcaraz because the thing about Carlos Alcaraz is yes he's a showman yes he's a shot maker and it's easy to look at a player and see shot making and go wow the thing about Alcaraz is he's he's an incredible match player as well and he wins in the big moments and he brings his best tennis in the big moments and that okay at a lower level you know I'm not I'm not saying that Kabali has done an Alcaraz here but I was impressed that he won the big moments this week in Acapulco he won five tie breaks out of five that he played and that was crucial to him winning this title and even in that final I think Tiafoe was a little compromised I think he was slightly under the weather he'd been struggling with illness a little bit that week i think everyone in acapulco has to just manage the conditions it is so hot you almost feel like everyone is is going in and out a little bit in matches because you can't go 100 the whole time otherwise you will you will sort of fall foul to those conditions but in the second set there he's up a break cabali and his serve suddenly goes off He throws in double folds and it gets back on level terms at four all.

40:12Catherine Whitaker: And I just thought that could be a moment where all unraveled for Caballi. But actually, fair play to him. He just recovered it in the next game and started hitting some of those blistering forehands that David's talking about to get the break back. And then he served it out pretty comfortably. And he does have pretty much everything, right? Fire power, great in defence, great in attack. he gets real pop on his serve considering he's not one of the taller players I remember at Wimbledon last year his return of serve was much talked about as well as he made that run there on the grass like he's got everything I think he's going he doesn't strike me as someone who's going to be really consistent you know I think we are going to have to ride the highs and lows with Flavio Caballi and there will be

41:00Matt Roberts: sometimes he's going to be Bruce Banner

41:04Catherine Whitaker: there will be periods where he can't win a match and you think oh Kabali what's going on but I think he's going to keep turning it around because he's seriously good

41:17Matt Roberts: and of course we get the Acapulco trophy ceremony and the attendant photos which are always a treat such a highlight this time of year the sombreros, the big pear-shaped trophy. It's all very good stuff. Ketsamanovic beat Zverev en route to the semi-final that he lost to Flavio Gaboli. David, I think you watched that one. I mean, this tournament, especially with Alex de Manor losing in his opener, it looked just on a plate for Zverev to win, quite frankly.

41:59David Law: yeah yeah and I saw Zvere's first round match against Corentin Moutet and we know he's got a great record against left-handers and goodness me he beat he beat Moutet so comfortably I just knocked him off the court in as aggressive a manner as I can remember seeing him play and after that he was he was really full of of determination in terms of this is how I play now This is the 2026 me. I go to the net, I stand inside the baseline and I hit the ball hard. And I don't really care too much about the results overall. I don't want to just be a baseliner winning matches. I want to be this. And honestly, that is what I would have prescribed for him over the last 10 years as the best way forwards.

42:49David Law: and I realise that a player's technique does dictate how much they're able to do that. But his sheer size and the difficulty of passing the bloke and lobbing him, he's got such a great overhead. Why wouldn't you do that? And I know it's probably because he's won so many matches by scrambling at the baseline and being consistent and so forth. But we've seen the ceiling. Well, I thought after seeing that that there's nobody going to get near him in this tournament. and actually, to go back to the scoreline thing, Ketsmanovic had won his first round 6-2, 6-2, and I did just think, oh, crikey, that's a player he's beaten comfortably that I wouldn't have expected to be that lopsided.

43:36David Law: It'll be interesting to see what he's liking against Verev. The timing of Ketsmanovic from the baseline was awesome, and he just planted his feet on the baseline and said, okay, then I'm going to do the same. So it was table tennis type rallies. And he won the first set of 6-3. Zverev came back, eked out the second set on a tie break, and he really got the crowd involved. Third went to a tie break. It was very, very close. But even with this new approach from Zverev, you still saw that thing where if somebody can stand up to it, if somebody's playing well enough and just doesn't back off, then they can still get to him.

44:17David Law: And I think he's probably going to end up taking a few losses that maybe he wouldn't have taken if he'd have reverted and been consistent. That's the interesting thing. Can Zverev stick with it? Can he accept those losses without thinking, oh, this doesn't work? Because he's talking the right game, I would say. I think he's saying the things in the right way. If he actually ever wants to get over the line, I think this is his best chance. but he may find that he loses matches he wouldn't have otherwise lost as well. So it's an interesting time.

44:50Matt Roberts: Matt, Alex de Minot, that very surprising loss to Patrick Kipson in his opener and then some very chaotic TikTok behaviour. Are we worried about Alex de Minot? All of this is very, very out of character.

45:08Catherine Whitaker: I'm trying to remember the timeline. did the did the tiktoks precede the loss or were they after the loss like i can't remember i think they might have been before i think they might have been just before there might have been a little hint that things were about to go wrong on call i mean i quite enjoyed you know taking time to answer fans questions it was just the way he did it during about 10 separate videos when he could have just probably stitched them together in in one video but anyway i feel like that's very dim and all i feel like he is a bit of a sort of would do the same. A bit of a boomer in a young man's body.

45:47Catherine Whitaker: Strange loss for Dimonor, but I'm not going to read too much into it. A strange loss

45:54Matt Roberts: because Dimonor isn't somebody that has strange losses generally. Like that's why it's, yeah. Yeah. Maybe he was distracted by trying to figure out how TikTok works. Okay. That's it for Acapulco. We head to Santiago where Luciano Darderi has won the ATP 250 there. He beat Yannick Hanfman 7.675 in the final to win his fifth career title. My dad watched quite a bit of Santiago this week and is now planning a trip to Santiago, David. That is how much my dad loved the look of this event. And it did just, it was in the dregs of winter here when we're just sort of desperately trying to bring forth spring, like the pop of the clay and the sun and the atmos, like it was a sight for sore eyes, this event on my telly.

46:55David Law: Oh, you're talking to the right guy. I've just watched the highlights of that final before we came on. I mean, the centre court looked amazing. They've really got themselves a fantastic platform for a tournament. And the tennis was big and strong from Darderi, who won the title, and Hamfman in the final. Really beefy stuff, those two hitting belts in the ball at each other. and yeah sort of a center court with really expansive surrounds so you could you could run out wide and far back and it just felt big it felt like a big tournament even though it's only a 250 on paper it felt bigger than that um and uh and yeah great atmosphere as well actually that's that's one of the things that struck me in acapulco and santiago just great crowds in those finals that make you feel like you're talking about bigger level, higher level tennis than it is on paper.

47:53Catherine Whitaker: It's going to be interesting to see whether Darderi can kind of level up on the European clay court swing, right? Like he's ranked high enough to sort of be in the conversation for second week of Roland Garros or second week of Masters 1000 events. and you sort of feel like on clay he should be there. At least one or two of those big tournaments on the European clay coming up. He's won five titles on the clay, but they have generally been at the clay court events that aren't packed with the best players. It's a little bit difficult to gauge what his actual sort of ranking would be on a clay court, for example.

48:36Catherine Whitaker: But I think he's dangerous. He hits such a big ball. but we've seen players like Baez win a lot of tournaments at this time of year and then not really been able to transfer it to the European clay. I do think the European clay and the South American clay plays differently. The conditions are very different. So that's going to be one to watch, I think, on the clay in the coming months. Darderi, what can he do? He's an interesting proposition.

49:06Matt Roberts: The very definition of agricultural, isn't he, Darderi. This was beefy tennis.

49:16Matt Roberts: OK, that is it for part one. In part two, we will look at the women's events that have taken place this week.

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52:00Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast. Two WTA events taking place in the past week. Let's first head to Austin, Texas and the WTA 250 there won by America's Peyton Stern. She beat Taylor Townsend 7-6, 7-5 in the All-American Final. Matt, you watched this?

52:23Catherine Whitaker: I did yes and let me first of all say that we've just talked about how great Santiago looked on the telly and I'm afraid the WTA event in Austin is the complete opposite of that it's actually incredibly hard to see the ball on the main court in Austin we had we had some emails about it and and talking to friends about it. Like, when it's down this end of the court, it's OK, but the ball disappears down the other end. You know, it's a green court, and clearly the position of the sun and the camera, it just doesn't work. It's too bright. You can't see the ball. So, honestly, watching Austin throughout the week was a bit of a struggle.

53:10Catherine Whitaker: But I did enjoy this final, Stearns against Townsend, because it sort of mattered a lot to both of them. You know, Townsend had been around a long time, Taylor Townsend. She'd never reached a tour level semifinal, let alone a final. So for her to have a week like this really, really mattered to her. And then Peyton Stearns, you know, played college tennis in Texas. She played for the Texas Longhorns. And she talked about how Austin is like a grand slam for her. You know, she treats it that seriously. She's desperate to win this event.

53:45Matt Roberts: Tell that to the centre court, which looks like my local club. But good for you, Peyton.

53:54Catherine Whitaker: And honestly, I've felt this for a while. If you're rooting for Peyton Stearns to win a match, it must be very stressful.

54:02Matt Roberts: Is she on your fantasy team? She was last year. She was last year. So you've got first-hand experience of this. I've got 20, 25 memories of you being very stressed watching Peyton Stearns.

54:14Catherine Whitaker: And we talked about this last year in her run in Rome. She is simultaneously clutch and unclutch within seconds of each other. You know, like there's no rhythm to it. And in this one, I mean, she was a breakdown in the opening set, recovered it as Townsend threw in a bit of a bad game, but then had four set points. And on two of those set points opening set, a couple of the worst misses you will see all year, particularly the first one literally on top of the net not quite a smash but like a high forehand put away had the whole court gaping and just dumped it in the net i mean literally all of us could have made that shot it was it was a horror miss from stern she missed a drop volley on another set point and you're thinking how is she going to get over the line here she's too tight and then she comes up with an absolutely crazy forehand on the back of the line to win the set and you sort of think well how she how she pulled that out the bag after those misses i've just seen she she fluctuates so much peyton stearns and again in the second set twice up a break twice gets pegged back goes up a rake a third time and i was thinking well she's probably going to get broken And again, it's going to go to a tie break.

55:31Catherine Whitaker: But fair play. She served it out. And she ends up winning in straight sets, even though it was a very long match. And she had a lot of long matches in this tournament, three three setters to get there. So she battled hard. It was a fun final. But yeah, Stearns is a fun watch, but a stressful watch if you're rooting for her. There's a little bit of the sort of Sacheries about her, right? Where you don't trust her with a lead. and yet when she's free and liberated she's got a hell of a forehand on her gets real revs on it, reps on it and can do big damage and she's a good athlete as well so yeah, fun final but a struggle of a tournament for me it's not one that I particularly enjoy watching from afar

56:22Matt Roberts: Yeah, and I really tried to watch the Andrescu, the Bianca Andrescu tour level comeback she faced Dalma Galfi in in round one but I couldn't see the ball for quite a lot of it which which which was a problem I thought you know biggest takeaway from this she looked like fit and strong and healthy I would like wasn't worried about her body I thought that it all looks the same doesn't it Matt I know you I know you watch a lot of this as well not the ball obviously um but uh I've she she just needs to get something going get some confidence going like I can see I can see her indecision especially as a player with who's got so many options and so many shots at her disposal like disposal I can see her indecision about when when to when to deploy what you know she's not playing on instinct anymore and maybe she never will be able to again that's something that emir adekani is trying to rediscover isn't it you know playing that just free-flowing youthful tennis where it's you're not thinking about it and maybe you can't rediscover that um and that is tragic and let's not dwell on that too long but maybe you can maybe she can somehow um but a few a few wins would definitely help um So she's got a wild card into Indian Wales, hasn't she, as a former champion.

57:58Matt Roberts: So let's see. They had a rage room in Austin. Fun. This is a... Yeah, fun. And they actually called it a rage room.

58:11Catherine Whitaker: Yeah.

58:13Matt Roberts: Which makes it doubly fun.

58:15Catherine Whitaker: Yeah. I mean, you feel like a... And I don't know, maybe they were planning this anyway, but it feels like a direct response to Coco Goff at the Australian Open saying that...

58:26David Law: Sensed an opportunity.

58:27Catherine Whitaker: Exactly. Yeah. Where obviously she was caught on the cameras that are everywhere smashing her racket and she was very unhappy about not having a sort of private space other than the locker room where she could get that post-match frustration out. And I think everyone sort of agreed with that. And it seemed like a very sensible thing for Coco Goff to say and for a tournament to have. Yeah, they called it the rage room. And I don't know how many players used it. I suppose that's the point, right? It's not for us to know. It's private and it should be. And yeah, there's a tick for Austin, having just written it off as an event.

59:05Matt Roberts: They saw an open goal there and they slotted it home. So well done to them. The WTA event in Merida, the 500 event, And obviously one of two tennis events happening in Mexico this week with Acapulco as well. We talked about that last week, the unrest that there has been in Mexico recently after the death of the leader of one of the country's biggest cartels. A lot of unsettlement. There was significant increased security at both of these two events. And thankfully, both of them seem to have gone off without incident, which is a great relief. And Merida was won by Christina Bookshire. She beat Magdalena Frech 6-1, 4-6, 6-4.

59:56Matt Roberts: Her first career title, she also won the doubles. She beat Jasmine Paolini in the semifinals. like this will probably be the highlight of Christina Bookshare's career right I mean she might have another week like this but if I had to say now I'd probably say it's not going to get better much better than this for Christina Bookshare like what a week for her David.

1:00:23David Law: Yeah she was amazing and pretty flawless all week long and actually that is going to be interesting to follow is is is the more to come from her because it certainly looked like there was a lot there over the course of this week i've often thought of her as a as a player who's tough to beat but i don't necessarily expect her to beat people higher than her and and that this week gave me reason to think differently um and and this this this final was really hard fought you know two players who aren't talked about a lot, let's be honest. They don't typically make agendas very often in Freck and Bookshire, but they earned their way into this final.

1:01:10David Law: Penultimate point, 38 strokes. Amazing point that Bookshire just sort of set up at the end, stayed really solid and then set up at the end and finished off. Then poor old Freck, who was just completely out on a feet after that, double faulted um to give her the title at the end um but great effort from her as as well um and uh and just just a word as well given the stick we've given the look of the the austin court beautiful court in merida vivid purple um with a sort of gray surround you're picking out the ball on that court i'm telling you and it looks great yeah how well you can see the ball

1:01:55Matt Roberts: really needs to be something significant that court makers, tournament directors are factoring in to their decisions. Probably should touch upon Emma Navarro, Matt, who, I mean, talk about the wilderness. Like, she's in the wilderness of the wilderness.

1:02:18Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I mean, just really struggling and has been for a little while now. and it's almost the reverse of how she came to our attention. I remember at the time it was thinking, how is Emma Navarro winning so many matches? How is she ranked where she is? And then she really did cement herself as a top player for a while there and was incredibly consistent and tough to beat. She had a great three-set record. And now it's a bit like, well, how is she not winning matches anymore? The drop-off has been significant. I didn't see her straight sets lost to Zhang Shui in her opening match in Merida. But not what either her, who was the second seed, or Paolini, the top seed, were really looking for, I don't think, for Merida.

1:03:10Catherine Whitaker: Okay, Paolini did at least get some wins. But, you know, I think she'd have been definitely having her eyes on the title there. And she's struggling. She's searching for confidence. I think she's talked, hasn't she, about belief being the big difference maker in her game over the last few years and allowing her to step in the court and hit more aggressively with her forehand and, you know, take time away from opponents. And it just feels like that belief has drained a little bit at the moment. It's also seeped into her doubles results. You know, they've not been as good this year. And, yeah, everything's just a bit off with Paolini at the moment.

1:03:47Catherine Whitaker: And it's a shame because she has been such a such a breath of fresh air for two years. But maybe it's, you know, for someone to make such a big leap. How long can that last? It just feels like there's been a little bit of a sort of regression this year. And I hope she gets it back to some extent, though. I miss fun Paolini.

1:04:10Matt Roberts: The TTP meets curse.

1:04:12Catherine Whitaker: Well, possibly. I'll have my hands up.

1:04:16Matt Roberts: I think it's all your fault, Matt. But that is the last time I saw her laugh.

1:04:24Matt Roberts: Yeah, it's such a missed opportunity, isn't it, for those top players when they enter these sort of inflated WTA 500s? Because let's be honest, this is one of those 500s that doesn't feel like a 500 in terms of its feel. And there are quite a few of those on the WTA Tour, and I do wonder if that's something that's going to be looked at in the architecture, by the architecture council. But, you know, that's a lot of points on offer in a fairly weak field. So to not take advantage, particularly looking at Emma Navarro here, I mean, that's something that she's done really well, isn't it? Like kind of play the calendar, really play the calendar and mop up maximum available points.

1:05:14Matt Roberts: So, yeah, tough week for Paolini, but even more so Navarro. OK, that's it for part two. We'll be back in part three with a look ahead to this week. And a new segment, probably a one week only thing, could come back again in the future called Worst Kept Secrets in Tennis News. We'll see you in part three. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the Fortune 500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows and AI, connecting every corner of your business.

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1:06:59Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast, where it's finally official. We can finally talk about it without using hypotheticals. Craig Tiley is leaving Tennis Australia and he's heading to the USTA, not to be the tournament director of the US Open, although I'm sure he will have his fingers in the US Open pie. but he's going to be the CEO of the USTA and oversee all of the redevelopment plans and all of the plans that they've got going on over in New York. Have you anything new to say about this, David, that we didn't say in the very long speculative phase when we absolutely knew this news was happening, but it wasn't yet fully confirmed?

1:07:53David Law: not really I mean I suspect he will be very visible because I think that that has been part of his tenure over 20 years and he's made him a huge star in Australia I mean people really know about Craig Tiley in Australia I mean obviously he won't have anything like the same impact on the visuals in America because it's such a bigger platform and environment. But I think I am fascinated to see what he does do because he's not somebody who comes in to just do things quietly. He's not somebody who just wants to take a big paycheck and quietly let things carry on as they have been. That's not him at all.

1:08:43David Law: he's somebody who will come in and shake things up I would think same way as he did when he left Tennis Australia saying that all the things he'd like to see which seem some of them a little bit counter to maybe what the association he's joining might do but maybe he's going to change things so I'm interested I'm also very interested to see what Tennis Australia does in terms of replacing him I mean, they had the head of Australian tennis as the tournament director as well. There's talk about splitting those two roles up, having two people. Don't know. But, yeah, it'll be interesting to see what they do.

1:09:27I thought Matt Futterman's article in The Athletic laid out how different the sort of picture of the USTA is compared to Tennis Australia,

1:09:38Catherine Whitaker: where basically Craig Tiley completely ran the show in Tennis Australia and could do what he liked. But he's going into a place, the USTA, which, in Matt's words, is more unwieldy, you know, with representation from all over. And the question is, can he have the same level of impact there as he had in Australia? He's going to have more resource, you know, The USTA revenue is about$250 million more than Tennis Australia's, Matt wrote. But whether he can actually make the same impact will be something to monitor. But presumably from the USTA's standpoint, you don't bring Craig Tiley in unless you want him to have an impact and shake things up.

1:10:33Catherine Whitaker: And then there's also the question of the fact that with Tennis Australia aligning itself more with the PTPA and sort of coming to that agreement with them versus the approach that the other slams have taken. Will the US Open go in the same direction? Sorry, will the USTA go in the same direction as Tennis Australia? We don't know. So that's something that's going to be sort of interesting to watch unfold over the next few months as well. It is a very interesting time.

1:11:06Matt Roberts: Yeah, having got rid of that lawsuit at Tennis Australia, obviously they're the only slam that have settled that lawsuit, to then walk into the USTA. It's hard to imagine that he's going to be okay with sort of walking back into that lawsuit at the USTA, isn't it? But then he's not going to be the only sheriff in town at the USTA in the way that he was at Tennis Australia. it's not going to be a case of him just going, you know, make it so. I do wonder how many feathers that will ruffle at the USTA. But as you say, you know, presumably they've had these conversations about what his expectations are and you don't go for Craig Tiley unless you want someone who's going to be the sheriff of the town.

1:11:54Matt Roberts: So we will see. I think none of us really expected the successor at Tennis Australia to be announced alongside the Craig Tiley exit announcement. I think the Craig Tiley exit announcement was always going to have its own designated oxygen and lots of it. But I'm interested. I'd love to know whether it has been decided but just hasn't been announced yet or whether it hasn't been decided. I'd love to know if, you know, Tylee's doing Ferguson and Moyes and appointing his successor on the way out.

1:12:32David Law: My sense is not. My sense is there is a process underway. And not to say that they haven't got some idea, but, you know, the fact that it hasn't been already announced, I think, tells you that they're now working it out. um i mean i don't think there'll be any shortage of people wanting to do it but being qualified to do it um is another matter you know it's it's a long time there's a lot of tournament directors

1:13:00Matt Roberts: out there david that aren't qualified to do it though like that's it is having been a tennis player qualification for being a tournament director i certainly i certainly don't i view

1:13:14David Law: that as useful on certain counts but yeah I mean look the two best tournament directors I ever worked with were Chris Komode and Stephen Farrow who's actually at Tennis Australia and they both worked at Queen's and Chris went on to be the boss at the ATP and Stephen I would hope is in the running at Tennis Australia because I certainly can't think of any better administrator and front person and reliable set of hands to run a tournament like that personally um but you know that's just a personal opinion okay watch this space we'll be watching

1:13:52Matt Roberts: it we'll be keeping you updated uh also in badly kept tennis secret news emma radhikanu is now a uniglo ambassador uh nike out uniglo in from radhikanu rumored to be a a huge a huge pay uplift on what she was getting from Nike. She's Uniqlo's first female brand ambassador, which is embarrassing from Uniqlo. I hadn't quite sort of processed that. They've invested a lot in male athletes, obviously most notably Roger Federer. And this is their first female athlete. So good that they're obviously looking hopefully to correct that. But there's a lot more, lot more correcting to do. She's been pictured in Indian Wells, training in Uniqlo and as was first reported by the Times, training again with Mark Petchy who is coming back in to the Emirati Karnu team in no different capacity we understand to previous times he's come into the emir adekanu team it's all around his broadcast work this isn't a formal he's my new coach situation this is a he's there i'm there i i feel comfortable with him i know this works so let's make the most of it for this period while we can um is is what it seems like to me and and i don't know there's there's going to be a lot of attention on it matt because it's emir adekanu I mean, it's a coaching decision.

1:15:31Matt Roberts: And there is, you know, for a lot of very good reasons, there is always a lot of attention on that. Yeah.

1:15:42Catherine Whitaker: And I think, you know, they've had some good results and certainly good performances together. And in the short term, I think it does sort of make sense as a move. but I do think in the long term, what does it say about sort of constantly going back to someone who's not going to be available for you long term? You know, is that the best sort of move for your career sort of strategically? And yeah, it'd be interesting to watch. I do think Raducanu has been consistent with her comments in terms of how she wants to get back to playing and taking the ball early and being aggressive and hitting down the line and going for the corners, all this sort of stuff.

1:16:28Catherine Whitaker: And I imagine we'll see her trying to do that in Indian Wells. I think some of those could be tricky conditions for that. Just the way the ball bounces up there is always a little bit tricky, I think. But yeah, short term, I suspect we will see a little uplift uplift in the in the sort of manner of the way she's playing and and some of her performances but I think it still leaves question marks about the long-term sort of shape of of her career and

1:17:02Matt Roberts: her coaching decisions it's philosophically so interesting this experiment of Emma Adekanu trying to go back to how she played when she was 18 because obviously on paper that makes that makes a ton of sense. Go back to how you played when you were playing your best tennis, when you looked most sure of yourself and you looked like you were most enjoying your tennis and you had your best results. But maybe you can only play that way when you're young enough not to have any doubt, for life not to have beat you down. Maybe it's just not possible. to play that kind of free-flowing, instinctive tennis later in your career.

1:17:54Matt Roberts: She's still incredibly young, but she's had a lot of knocks. You know, like with Bianca Andreescu, you can see the indecision.

1:18:05Matt Roberts: And this period of the career is all about sort of making up for what you lose in the naivety of youth with... You've got to make up for that with what you gain from experience, right? But if experience is sort of more negative than positive, it's hard to make that equation work. So it's a fascinating kind of tennis and existential experiment that she's enacting at the moment. Maybe we're that young anymore. In the words of David Whittaker, you really are ticking off those decades, aren't you? in a FaceTime call to me and Matt at about three o 'clock in the morning at the Australian Open. Other tennis news from this week.

1:18:54Matt Roberts: About a week ago now, I think just after we recorded the last podcast, we had the news that Tara Moore, the British player, is suing the WTA. She's 33 now, former British doubles number one she's being backed by the PTPA in this plight PTPA obviously already sowing both tours and the Grand Slams and that situation we mentioned earlier in relation to Craig Tiley but this reporting by Matt Hughes in The Guardian Tara Moore has brought legal action for negligence against the WTA after being handed a four-year ban for doping. She's using lawyers from the PTPA's legal partner, King and Spalding.

1:19:53Matt Roberts: And PTPA sources told The Guardian that it is not paying Moore's legal bills but is supportive of her claim, with King and Spalding understood to have been engaged on a pro bono. So that's a free of charge basis. Now, Tara Moore was first suspended in June 2022 after testing positive for bouldernone and nandrolone at a tournament in Bogota. She's always denied doping. And in December 2023, she was cleared by an independent tribunal, which found that contaminated meat was the likely source of the positive tests. But there was an appeal by the ITIA, the International Tennis Integrity Unit, to the Court of Arbitration for Sport, which overturned the ruling, the ruling that cleared Tara Moore, that is.

1:20:45Matt Roberts: And then in July 2025, Cass reimposed Tara Moore's original four-year ban, removing the 19 months she'd already served. So that is where Tara Moore now stands and she is suing the WTA for negligence, arguing that it failed to warn players about the risk of contamination from eating meat. Specifically before the tournament in the Colombian capital, she's seeking$20 million in compensation for what the claim describes as reputational and financial ruin, arguing that the WTA failed in its duty of care to protect athletes. She also alleges that the authorities, specifically the ITIA, showed preferential treatment to more high profile players such as Yannick Sinner and Igor Svantec, who were handed bans of three months and one month respectively following contamination.

1:21:36Matt Roberts: WTA statement says we are aware of Tara Moore's filing in the US District Court and will respond to the appropriate legal process. The arbitration was conducted by a neutral arbitrator and there is no basis to vacate the arbitrator's award. We respect the judicial process and will not comment further while the matter is pending. The ITIA was unavailable for comments. So another one that we will keep an eye on and keep you posted. This week, the tours, both tours head to Indian Wells for the start of a two week long or 12, 12, 13 days, 12 days, I think, combined 1000 event. The draw is being live streamed on Tennis Channel later tonight, Matt.

1:22:27Matt Roberts: Word is spreading. The campaign is thoroughly off the ground. We're calling it a movement, I think. Yeah. Are you taking total credit for it?

1:22:39Catherine Whitaker: Yep.

1:22:43Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, it's great. It's a great thing.

1:22:46Matt Roberts: We still don't know what the draw will look like.

1:22:49Catherine Whitaker: No, it's possible. What would you like to see? I would like to, well, ideally, I'd like to see them pull names out of a velvet bag, Wynwood and style, but that's the dream. What I would accept is a draw happening live in real time, even if it's, you know, electronically, which I'm sure it will be. That's fine. I can very much accept that. What I don't want is here's the draw we did behind the scenes 20 minutes ago. Here it all is in one go. No, that's bad. That's not a proper draw process. So show it, absolutely, and do it live.

1:23:32Matt Roberts: What would you like in terms of sort of ceremony and setting, ideally?

1:23:38Catherine Whitaker: Do you know, I'm not too fussy about that. You're all about process. absolutely big big big workflow guy uh i received a tournament email actually um which uh i must be

1:23:53David Law: on a mailing list of some kind because i received a tournament email inviting me to that public area with the big screen that uh that you may remember we we walked past uh with all the place where you

1:24:06Matt Roberts: you did a big interview with your with your name behind you in no no it's not it's not there that

1:24:12David Law: That was sort of where all the eating places were. This was a place with a big screen. I can't remember exactly where. It's on the back of one of the stadiums.

1:24:20Matt Roberts: Is it where John McEnroe performed Glory Days? Might have been there.

1:24:24David Law: I don't know. Well, David, that sounds perfect. They did say it would be revealed there. Yeah. So I was a little bit concerned. I'm worried about that. That sounds very PDF-y, doesn't it?

1:24:38Catherine Whitaker: I'm worried about that word, revealed.

1:24:40David Law: We'll see. and they're going to live stream it so you know live streaming and reveal here we are, here's the PDF see you later you can't do that

1:24:54Matt Roberts: I'm worried it's just going to be nonsense I'm worried the actual draw 20 minutes build up

1:25:01David Law: mention all the sponsors invite them all out to say something

1:25:05Matt Roberts: yeah get some sort of mid range tennis players out say some I bet Emi Navarro will pop up.

1:25:16David Law: Could be defending champions. Could be.

1:25:23Matt Roberts: Yeah, Mirandreva, maybe. Maybe. Yeah.

1:25:28David Law: Be up for it.

1:25:31Matt Roberts: Yeah, could be. Well, we'll be watching and we'll be judging. Yeah. Head to our Instagram for sort of live reactions from Matt Roberts to the Indian Miles draw ceremony. I've just come up with that idea Matt, I hope you're comfortable with it but I do like your draw reactions I think it's 11pm

1:25:52Catherine Whitaker: here, that's okay I'll be awake, if you'd made me be awake at 3am for live reactions, I'm not that into draws Okay

1:26:02Matt Roberts: 11pm folks on our Instagram, live Matt Roberts reactions We should note by the way I think it would be remissivist not to. Lots of players already in Indian Wells, players currently stranded in Dubai, desperately trying to get to Indian Wells. Indian Wells is owned by Larry Ellison. And he is a man that is very closely aligned with Donald Trump. He owns Paramount, who are He's currently involved in trying to become the biggest media conglomerate in the world by buying Warner Brothers and HBO and who else is involved? It's Warner Brothers, TNT, HBO, all of that lot together. And, yeah, he's very closely aligned with Donald Trump.

1:26:59Matt Roberts: He's just moved his primary home to be 20 minutes from Mar-a-Lago. Mar-a-Lago where Donald Trump was when he made the decision and announced the strikes on Iran. And he's also, Larry Ellison, a huge financial supporter of the IDF, the Israel Defence Forces. So again, you know, this is already a time when tennis cannot detach itself from world events much as it would like to. And, you know, Larry Ellison is going to be sitting front and centre of this event. He's very, very much the public face of it, particularly during Carlos Alcaraz matches. Don't see him front and centre of many women's tennis matches, but he'll be there for every Carlos Alcaraz match.

1:27:52Matt Roberts: I guarantee that. And that element of the whole event cannot be, however you feel about it, It absolutely cannot be overlooked or hidden from, I don't think, over the course of the next couple of weeks. In terms of our next couple of weeks or this week, more particularly, we're recording our next tennis relived show, our second tennis relived show of 2026. And we are extremely excited about it. We revealed what it was going to be about in the newsletter this week. for anybody that hasn't seen Matt Roberts. Could you do the reveal on... I know you hate a reveal, but here we go. Could you do the reveal, well, right now, please?

1:28:39Catherine Whitaker: Yes, we're going to be talking about the life of Alice Marble, who was, well, has been a real character in a lot of episodes of Tennis Relived for us. She's come up a lot. And when that happens, we all think, right, we need to do a full show on Alice Marble. If you don't know, played before the Second World War, won a lot, was the best player in the world for a little period there. But there's a whole lot of mystery surrounding her life and sort of what she did during the war. and she's also very well known for writing a very important letter of support about Althea Gibson and helping Althea Gibson to be able to play the US Nationals.

1:29:32Catherine Whitaker: So a fascinating career, fascinating person, a very important person in tennis history. And yeah, it's been brilliant reading all about her. And also the fun double announcement is that Hannah Wilkes, our Hannah, is going to be on that show this week. She is, she'll hate me for saying this, but she's somewhat of an expert on Alice Marble, having talked at the Wimwood Tennis History Conference last year all about Teach Tennant, who played a very important role in Alice Marble's life. And Hannah did a lot of research into Alice Marble that was left sort of on the shelf that she couldn't get into her speech at the history conference.

1:30:19Catherine Whitaker: But she's going to bring it to Tennis Relived this week, which I'm very excited about. It is incredible work that Hannah's done. And yeah, can't wait to share it with friends.

1:30:32Matt Roberts: yeah Hannah's left on the shelf work is better than any work I've ever done which is sort of amazing from a Hannah perspective and slightly demoralizing from a Catherine Whittaker perspective

1:30:44Catherine Whitaker: yeah Hannah was like sorry for the delay and sending this over and she sent it over in like two days and it was extraordinary yeah I'm really really excited about this show we also had our

1:30:57Matt Roberts: first Q &A show of 2026 last year. We've got another one of those coming up soon for Friends of the Tennis Podcast. Hannah's new column is also out this week. So lots going on for Friends of the Pod. So yeah, all of that happening for Friends of the Pod. If you'd like to become a friend, the link is in our show notes. Speaking of special Friends of the Pod, here is Biscuit, our mascot for this week. Biscuit is owned by Corey and Ian. Now, Corey, I think this is talking, says we had just got married and moved to London from America in 2019. Far away from our families. We knew we needed a companion.

1:31:43Matt Roberts: We put ourselves on the list of the lovely charity Friends of Animals Wales. And that is how Biscuit, who's on the left hand side of this picture that you'll be looking at right now, if you're watching us on YouTube. After her mum was rescued pregnant from a puppy mill, Biscuit is the most food-motivated pooch we have ever come across, which has made her quite easy to train. She enjoys nothing more than hunting squirrels. Squirrel! Oh, yep, Billie Jean has stood to attention. Snuggling and serving as our own personal vacuum cleaner after our four-year-old is finished with mealtime. she did have some anxiety if we had to leave her alone once in a while so we got our dog a dog her younger brother crumpet you could end up with this sort of russian dolls of dogs situation and what's living the dream if not that uh yeah we got our dog a dog her younger brother crumpet pictured on the right um and the two of them have been the sweetest bondest bonded pair ever since Dogs being friends.

1:32:51Matt Roberts: Yes, please. They'll keep us company on long walks in the park as we listen to the tennis podcast. They're pictured here after eagerly opening some Christmas presents after they were on the very, very much on the nice list. They are so lovely. Corey doesn't say what breed Biscuit is. I think there is some Westie in there maybe a bit of Havanese that's my diagnosis but Corey, Ian please do let me know how accurate how accurate I've been there what a smiley dog that's really appropriate for spring I think even though that's a festive photo So, yeah, that has really cheered me up. Biscuit and Crumpet.

1:33:50Matt Roberts: Biscuit and Crumpet, great names. So thank you, Corey and Ian, for our mascot for this week. We, of course, have our mascots, Bodhi. It's all coming up, Bodhi and Cabali. David and Maisie, OK week for you, David?

1:34:05David Law: No, it's terrible, but Maisie, I still love you.

1:34:09Matt Roberts: Matt and Roger?

1:34:12Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, we did not see Patrick Kipson coming. Took out Alex Dimonor, who I was pretty hopeful of getting a good bulk of points there. But no, gone in round one.

1:34:25Matt Roberts: We have our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. Hello to you. Matt, let's have some shout outs.

1:34:33Catherine Whitaker: We have just one shout out today. a special, special birthday shout out for Tuya Arala, who is Robert McNichol's girlfriend.

1:34:47Matt Roberts: Oh, we've met Tuya. We've had dinner with Tuya. We have. She is the loveliest. Is this at Robert's request?

1:34:58Catherine Whitaker: It is a surprise for Tuya this week at Robert's request. And Tuya is from Finland. And Robert says, there aren't any tennis tuyas to mention, but you could say there's a precedent for successful Finnish-British partnerships. Henry Continent and Heather Watson and Harry Heliovara and Henry Patton.

1:35:21Matt Roberts: Very good, Robert. That's something that Robert and tuya have discussed, isn't it?

1:35:27Catherine Whitaker: I think so. And Robert says, please say that life is more fun with a fin.

1:35:35Matt Roberts: oh Robert that's so lovely Tuya have a wonderful birthday hope to get to see you again soon it was lovely meeting Tuya I know you'd met her before Matt hadn't you met her before

1:35:51Catherine Whitaker: yes I've had dinner twice with Tuya lovely

1:35:57Matt Roberts: and in fact you had updates on the Robert Tuya you know, relationship progression from the start. We were all very invested once we heard that Robert had gone on a date with a tennis podcast listener. We were all in. So we're very happy that we've got to the giving a birthday shout out stage. I'm sure you are too. Happy birthday. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. We'll be back next Monday. Then we've got two shows next week and then we'll be back after Indian Wells with our show, our weekly show that week live on YouTube at 8pm UK time on Monday the 16th of March. So lots coming up for Tennis Podcast.

1:36:45Matt Roberts: Listeners, thank you for listening today. We'll speak to you soon.

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