ATP Finals - Sinner takes it all

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1:08Jannik Sinner: Hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast live from our respective living rooms on this fine Sunday evening. For once, tennis's timings have fallen in our favour. And we are here at the advertised time of 8pm for everybody that's joined us live on YouTube. Hello to you. Wasn't looking likely after the 80 minute first set, was it? We were all making contingency plans after that first set between, of course, Carlos Alcaraz and Yannick Sinner. And of course, the 15 minutes of FAF before the first ball was struck didn't help either. The set and the match, as I'm sure most of you know, were won by Yannick Sinner, 76-75, defending his ATP finals title in front of an electric home crowd in Turin.

1:58Jannik Sinner: David is live from Solihull. Do you enjoy it, David? I really did. And I think your use of the word electric is suitable because that was one of the better atmospheres that we've had I think on a final day at an ATP finals in in many years my my memory goes back to watching Boris Becker against Pete Sampras in 1996 in Hanover when Becker was playing the all-conquering Sampras and that went five sets and it's regarded as one of the great matches of all time and that sort of atmosphere was a little bit like this one because even though I mean I think Sinner is is a lot more heavily favored than Becker would have been back then but even so he's still playing the guy who's beat him at the most recent Grand Slam he's still playing a guy who you feel like is capable of this otherworldly stuff and the crowd felt like they had a big role to play they seem to really understand their part and they made it special and I think that that all contributed to what you saw at the end with that that real emotional fall to the back from sinner it was great stuff follow that matt got a 90s reference to to pull out of anywhere for us great tennis podcast bingo already david mentions the 90s in the first two minutes uh i mean i could be a cliche of myself and say that it kind of reminded me of that Federer-Djokovic final at the 0-2 which I think might have even been the same scoreline but certainly two very very tight sets and you know I think that day the crowd were probably pulling more for Federer than they were Novak-Djokovic whereas this time it was the crowd favorite that ended up winning it and yeah it was great honestly I was kind of tingling with excitement the whole day actually I woke up and I had a real feeling of like, oh, great, it's Cine Alcaraz today, plan everything around that.

3:59And look, it didn't go through his sets, but I still think it delivered the goods in terms of drama and quality. Yeah, I had a really good time.

4:09Jannik Sinner: So that's how we all experienced it in our living rooms. Let's speak to somebody that experienced it live in Turin, joining us live from Turin, Charlie Eccleshire from The Athletic. Charlie, how are you doing? I'm good. Yeah, I'm pretty buzzed after that. It was great. Really, really enjoyed it. Yeah, I mean, you kind of know when the atmosphere is translating through a screen that well, you're kind of like, oh, this is great. But how good must it be actually there in the stadium? So go on, tell us how good it was actually in the stadium. No, it was. It was really lively throughout. And I mean, even the sort of pre-match entertainment, which I know we can all be a bit eye-rolly about.

4:54And I certainly was for whatever Italian singer this was that I'd never heard of. But even that everyone seemed really up for, which kind of set the tone. Was it not Andrea Bocelli? No, no.

5:06Jannik Sinner: That's who I'd have been booking. No, I mean, that's who you'd think Sinner would have wanted as well. It wasn't Bocelli. If any of you have heard of him, fair play, I can't remember the name. I'd be surprised. But yeah, right from the start, the whole cinemania is really real here. I mean, like they just go wild for him. I mean, even in matches, he's not playing. At Change of Ends, they'll show an ad that he's in for a coffee company or something. And everyone just goes nuts. And you think, God, the poor players are actually playing. And that's like the biggest cheer of the day is for somebody who's not even in this match.

5:39But yeah, I mean, they were pretty partisan, but you know respectful to Alcaraz at the same time you know it wasn't like a kind of madly hostile Davis Cup vibe it was just everyone so loving Yannick Sinner and yeah it was loud throughout there wasn't really a lull I mean maybe the start of the second set when Sinner got broken straight away but the fact he then got back into it fairly quickly so yeah no it was as his other matches were as well. I mean, even the daytime one against Shelton, which was, you know, essentially a dead rubber, even that was a pretty good vibe.

6:18Jannik Sinner: The question I have, I think, for all three of you is Alcaraz had a set point in the first set of this match. Had he taken that? Yes, pointless hypothetical question incoming. coming had Alcaraz taken that first set would this match have been different like how big a chance would there have been Alcaraz would have gone on to win like was it a few points here and there could have gone either way or was this one where Sin is better on an indoor hardcourt and the chances are regardless of that one point in the first set this was destined to go Yannick Sinner's way because he is a better indoor hardcourt player at this stage of their careers whichever of you wants to go first with that feel free I would go the latter Catherine I do like it I don't know maybe you know it's like instant hindsight but I did always feel pretty confident that Sinner was going to win today I actually thought he would win in two straight but tight sets like it just it really had that feel um you know and obviously sinner hasn't lost a set here in the last two editions so we haven't seen him tested and yeah maybe he would have you know that would have rattled him but i think and i asked alcries yesterday in the mix zone i said who's the favorite for this match you're the world number one but sinner is the guy on indoor indoors and he said sinner you know he said he said you know he laughed and he said he said it all in kind of good spirits but he was kind of pains me to say it but yeah Sinner's the favorite and I and I don't know I just felt like there was not an understanding but definitely an expectation that over the course of you know it would have it could have taken like three hours if Alkraze had won the first set that ultimately Sinner in the way that Djokovic for so long was kind of the tax man like you can you can go ahead against him you can build leads you could be the better player but he will ultimately come for you and you're going to have to pay.

8:25And that's kind of how Sinner feels indoors right now, even against Alcaraz. Matt? Well, firstly, I would shout out the 116 mile an hour second serve that Sinner hit on that set point for Carlos Alcaraz. You know, we talk about rivals and what they do to each other. And I think what's been so fascinating this whole season is the way that these two players have kept coming back at each other and kept maybe adding something to their game based off the previous defeat that they've just had. And it was clear at the US Open that the serve was a problem for Yannick Sinner. And he's gone away, he's worked on it, he's improved that shot seemingly in the few weeks we've had since the US Open.

9:08And I think that was massive for him today. And it came up huge on that set point. I know he missed the first serve, but so bold to go to that big second serve. and I think it did catch Alcarez out a little bit. I would agree with Charlie's assessment. I did have Sinner as the favourite going into this one. I would say the only thing that added to it, in my opinion, was the Alcarez little injury that he seemed to have today on the hamstring. I think that totally altered his tactics and game plan in that second set in particular, where actually Sinner's serve did drop off a bit. and it was around 50 % first serves in.

9:49And I think there was a potential for someone like Alcarez to be able to capitalize on that. But Alcarez couldn't really go the extended rally route in that second set. He was teeing off and going big on everything. And he's so good, he made it work for quite a while. Even though it seemed totally unsustainable to me. But I always thought that Sinner having won that first set plus Alcarez struggling with that injury was going to make this a straight sets match for Sinner ultimately. And I do think even if Sinner had lost that first set, I think that injury was a bit of a problem. And I think Sinner probably still would have turned it around.

10:36So yes, I think that set point was big, but I would also point to the Alcarez injury. Not that it was the totally determining factor in the match. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying Sinner only won because of that. But I do think it changed things. And it kind of forced Alcarez to just be even bolder on some shots than he normally is. And we saw him be quite inefficient up at the net today. I think he was coming in off shots that he wouldn't necessarily want to come in off. And he lost his touch a little bit up at the net, particularly on the backhand volley. I think that frustrated him a bit.

11:09So I think there were a lot of factors at play. He also, Matt, he missed exactly the kind of shot you're describing. He missed, I think it was at three all. He then had a break point again. Sinner had broken back. And then straight away, Alcaraz was at him again. And he had a break point. And he went for a lot, missed a forehand. You just don't expect him to. And it felt, again, a little bit part of that going for broke strategy. Yeah.

11:33Jannik Sinner: David, both questions to you, both about that first set point and about the injury, the Alcaraz injury. Yeah, I do feel a bit cheated that we didn't get to see Sinner try to take him out without that injury. And he may well have done. But I would love to have seen that. I would love to have seen it. Because to my mind, Alkraus came out looking the better, looking the sharper. He was absolutely striping the ball very early. Like he was last night, really, against Filius Ogiali, I've seen him. He is still not as good as Sinner, and it's no surprise to be saying this. He's still not as good as Sinner at handling circumstances and conditions.

12:19The fact that they had the 10 or 15 minute break at 2-1 juice. You know, Sinner comes immediately out and serves that game out to level two games. I get the sense that Alkraus is, not that I think his mind wanders a bit, but I also think his energy levels change. he starts getting worried about the person in the crowd which I understand I'm not saying that Sinner wasn't but Sinner is the great compartmentaliser Alcaraz isn't and then you get the injury and you get the strapping and you have to have that whole palaver and even if he's not badly hurt I think it sort of unsettles him and then he's also got the other role of playing the second fiddle to the home hero who's getting all the support and look, that's just part of the sport and he's got to get used to it.

13:08But look, you know, finger to the ear, Yannick Sinner in this match, you didn't see that once from Al Kraus because he can't do it. You cannot do that, can you? Without looking like a total dick to a crowd that's going well for your opponent. Do you think Al Kraus would have looked a total dick

13:22Jannik Sinner: if he'd done his? I mean, it's his trademark move. I know, but he couldn't have done it. He would have got booed, I think, if he'd have tried that because it was seriously partisan. and even though they like Al Kraz under normal conditions, they love him, but he's against their guy. You can't do it, I don't think. And so I just think it all changes the energy. You say they love him, David, and I'm sure they do sort of in isolation, but yesterday during the first semifinal, Charlie, I don't know if you were in the stadium for this, during the Cine de Menor semifinal, which I don't think we need to linger on sort of from a tennis perspective too long.

14:05Jannik Sinner: But they showed on the big screen and to the TV viewers at home, they showed Alcaraz and Auger Eliassime arriving for their night session semifinal. And Felix got a hero's cheer and Alcaraz got a smattering of boos. They wanted Felix to win that because he would obviously be a better opponent for Sinner in the final. I'm guessing that's just indicative of how into Yannick Sinner they are. But I was a bit like, God, you guys don't even want Sinner Alcaraz. Like, what's wrong with you? Do you even like tennis? And like, maybe they don't. Maybe they just love Yannick Sinner more than tennis. Like him winning is so much more important than the quality of the match or the occasion or anything.

14:57I mean, I think there was an element of pantomime. Yeah, I think there was an element of pantomime about that. but yes, I think their priority is absolutely Yannick Sinner winning this tournament rather than it being a great final or even necessarily who the final's against. I mean, for balance, and obviously this is different because by this point Alcraz had lost, but when he was giving his very gracious speech, it did get interrupted towards the end for cheers of Carlos, Carlos. It may be in a slightly apologetic, sorry that we gave you nothing during the match, but we're going to give you this now kind of way.

15:30but yeah I mean on the energy point I do think it's that's a challenge for Alcaraz and will be at this event because he's so used to having the crowd on his side and feeding off their energy and there was a moment I think it was as early as the third game and he hit this incredible forehand up the line winner on the run and you know he's used to then a pretty rapturous applause and it yeah well you know it might even have been a finger to the ear moment it was pretty early but it definitely met the threshold for sort of quality of shot wise. There was kind of nothing, you know, it was just like a smattering of applause as if he just hit like a good serve or something.

16:07But yeah, I mean, that's something he's got to cope with. I think he generally dealt with it pretty well. But yeah, it's a huge advantage for Sinner at this tournament.

16:17Jannik Sinner: I think the impression I got in terms of how he dealt with it is that he dealt with it well and that it didn't get to him. He didn't take it personally or get chippy about it. But he also was denied one of his kind of superchargers, wasn't he? Like he just didn't have that available to him today. And he uses that booster, I think, as well as anybody on tour. I did like seeing Yannick Sinner do the, like, there's a world in which if you told me Yannick Sinner is going to do Finger to the Ear, I would have sort of anticipated it potentially being a little bit awkward and him not quite committing to it.

16:56But he really, he was into it.

17:00Jannik Sinner: Yannick Sinner and Turin is an undeniable vibe. It is. And I mean, David, you'll like this reference, but it's quite sort of WWE, that kind of thing, where you take the sort of signature move of your big rival. You know, it's a bit of a flex doing that. I know we're talking, Charlie. Heard your 90s tennis reference. I thought, you know, more WWF, I guess, going back to that era. Correct. But it was a little bit. What would be hilarious is like if that was Novak Djokovic, I think he would be reveling in being the pantomime villain. You know, he would be winding them up. That is just not in Alcrest's locker.

17:34But it would be hilarious if at some point he did kind of snap and turn heel in a match like this. I mean, I would love to see that.

17:42Jannik Sinner: Speaking of lockers, Charlie, are you in a locker room right now? You're certainly sort of ensconced by lockers. Yeah, I'm surrounded by lockers. There are many lockers behind me. It was that as a backdrop or a kind of Red Bull fridge. And I thought that might look like a sponsorship thing. So I've gone with the lockers. But yes, I'm very much in the bowels of the stadium. It's always hard. Like it's always surprisingly hard at big tennis events to find like a room where you can do something. So I always have to go sort of burrowing around. And this was the best I could do. A room, but with lots of lockers.

18:16Jannik Sinner: Should we talk about Sinner's variety? he told us in New York after that not quite chastening defeat to Alcoraz but one that certainly startled Yannick Sinner in the moment in terms of the gap between them in that particular match he was shook by it and he came to that press conference afterwards and he says I need to go away and change my game add more strings to my bow we've been seeing evidence of that he's been practising it against other players players, hasn't he? In David's words, you know, playing a little bit with his new toy. And he was sparse with how he deployed it today. And there were a couple of dodgy dropshots.

18:59Jannik Sinner: There were a couple of dodgy Alcaraz dropshots. I mean, both of them were guilty of dodgy dropshots in that first set tiebreak. They both needed to put that dropshot away. And I didn't think I'd ever be saying that about Carlos Alcaraz. But there were some critical points that were won for Yannick Sinner with variety today and in particular the lob. That's I think one of the shots that is going to stay with me from this match. The Yannick Sinner lob kind of echoes of Andy Murray even. And yeah, like you and David, Matt, were saying on Friday's pod, you can see how much satisfaction he gets from winning points like that.

19:46Jannik Sinner: He's like, see that? Yeah, I've been working on that. It's good, isn't it? Yeah, there was an absolutely crucial forehand lob, wasn't there? Right towards the end of the match, at the end of a really long rally. And I just love those moments where you see a shot that either Sino or Alcaraz plays, where you know that like, that's the defining feature that they have over the rest of the field in being able to win that point against the other one. You know, like that running forehand that Alcaraz hit that Charlie referenced right at the start of the match. Like, I think Sinner wins that point against everyone else on tour.

20:21But Alcaraz has got the dynamism and the incredible shot at the end of his reach to be able to hit a forehand pass there. And the other way around, Alcaraz approaches like that. He hit a pretty decent volley and Sinner just has the options and comes up with the lob. And I'm not sure many players come up with that there. So I love seeing that edge that they have over everyone else. But I must say, as much as Sinner has tried to incorporate this variety and he has been true to his word, I never thought that that was the fundamental element that he needed to beat Carlos Alcaraz. I always thought it was the serve.

20:59And I think the changes on the serve that he's made, he's maybe bigged up the changes in the variety to maybe keep the serve changes on the down low a little bit. But they've been happening and they've been really effective for him. And they're going to be indoors. That is probably going to be when he's most likely to be more effective serving. But that's been big for him. And adding in the variety has been helpful. It was particularly helpful, I think, in the second set when Alquaz wasn't moving as well. We did see a couple of drop shots have a bit more effect for Sinner. And it's been helpful against the rest of the field.

21:31You know, like I do think he doesn't necessarily need it against everyone else. But it is a nice string to his bow to have so that he just generally feels a bit more confident with it and a bit more well-rounded. So I'm pretty impressed that Sin has been able to say something, implement it and improve it in such a small space of time. I think it goes to show just how good he is, really, that he can incorporate these changes into his game, technically and tactically. And, yeah, look, it helped him, but I wouldn't say it was the absolute key to his victory here.

22:08Jannik Sinner: I don't know, Charlie, how close you were sitting to Sinner's team, but there were a couple of times where he hit a double fault and Fagnossi, I think it was, was telling him, keep your arm up, keep your arm up on the show. Like it's clearly, you can see the evidence of it all being quite new and it still being in the process of getting into the muscle memory. And incidentally, on Sinner's team, they were extremely emotional today and all week. They've spent most of the matches on their feet. I don't know whether there was that one clip that went viral from one of the Chinese events. I can't remember if it was Beijing or Shanghai where Yannick Sinner sort of had a little bit of a gripe at his team for not standing up.

22:54Jannik Sinner: and they basically haven't sat down by the looks of things since then. A lot of emotion. I mean, it's been a dramatic emotional year for Yannick, isn't it? It has been. And also, you know, his record against Alquaz just hasn't been good. I mean, he'd lost seven out of the eight before this. Four and one for the year going into this. Alquaz has been a big problem for him. And I think that US Open final defeat was really chastening, especially as it came after him finally turning things around at Wimbledon. I mean, on the variety point, the tennis viz who we work with and they give us lots of data and they showed, you know, they do variation shots, which is basically everything away from the kind of core shots.

23:41So blobs, drop shots. And he has been playing with more variety since since that US Open final defeat. That said, not so much this week because I guess part of that is conditions. Today, he played with 12.4 % variation, which is still more than what he was doing prior to and including the US Open this year, which was like 11.7%, which is like so low. It's like the rock bottom of the tour because he doesn't need to be playing with much. That's not his game. To be honest, Alcrez was also really low today. He was at about 18%. He's normally for the year about 25 % and had been at around 27 % at the finals.

24:27So it wasn't a match really for variety overall. It was just those key moments. But I think if you are Sinner and you've made this great play about variety, even if it wasn't huge overall today, you're going to be pretty chuffed with those two lobs to win the tie break. That was pretty amazing. And then a disguised drop shot to get the break back for three all. Like those were big moments and he executed and he did. And, you know, it was I'm not sure he especially the first one in that tiebreak, which was the really key one. I'm not sure he would have hit that shot as a lob, you know, at the US Open or previously.

25:02I think he might have just leathered a forehead because that's kind of his bread and butter. So to do it at such a big moment under that kind of pressure is really impressive. And they do just keep forcing the other to get better and improve the areas where they might be slightly deficient. You know, in the same way, Alcres, I think, was pretty gutted to lose that Wimbledon final and resolves to be more efficient, you know, improve his serve. And he goes and wins the US Open, dropping one set and getting broken three times the whole fortnight. So just incredible what they're doing at a time when other players are kind of struggling to make improvements.

25:35And these two who are close to perfection are still evolving their game.

25:40Jannik Sinner: It was nine months ago that they hadn't met yet in a Grand Slam final. And now it's just a given that they're going to meet in every major final. And then ATP finals final as well. Because, you know, when Nadal and Djokovic were meeting in all the Grand Slam finals, both in that kind of 2011-2012 period, but also 2018 to the start of 2020, but they weren't then meeting at the ATP finals. And actually in that latter period, you had a lot of quite random, you know, Zverev won it, Sitsipas won it, Medvedev won it. The ATP finals used to be, at least for a time, was a bit more unpredictable. But now they've closed that off.

26:21It's like every loophole, every possible way in, they're going to close that.

26:27Jannik Sinner: Because the gap between them and the rest is just so huge. And I'm looking through the comments on this live YouTube and it's torn between like, I don't care what else is going on in men's tennis. Like just as long as I get Sinner as like, we're all fine. And people saying men's tennis is really boring and very precarious in its reliance on these two. One of them gets injured and, you know, OK, like Italy will be fine because they're all in on Yannick Sinner. If you're a super fan of the one that's not injured, then you're fine. but basically they are they're propping one another up here aren't they they are greater than the sum of their parts and it is an absolute joy but it it does feel quite precarious and for a lot of people the rest of men's tennis feels feels largely irrelevant but just to to go back which was so teeing you up for a 90s reference David like there are great rivals in this sport that that didn't meet as reliably and as often as these two and never played each other in all the Grand Slam finals.

27:39Jannik Sinner: Who's not picking Sinner and Alcaraz to meet in the Australian Open final and make it a set? I don't think you'd find anybody in the sport right now doing that. It feels just totally nailed on. Yeah, if they're fully fit, I can't believe that they don't meet in the final of the Australian Open. because the difference is so vast between them and the rest, and they're both so good on that surface as well. You're right. I mean, I grew up on the Agassi-Sampras rivalry, and before that, Ed Berg and Becker, but, you know, they didn't meet in all the Grand Slam finals. Nadal and Federer didn't meet in all the Grand Slam finals.

28:21They didn't meet at all at the US Open. so absolutely I think we're looking at potentially one of the greatest rivalries of all time when all is said and done when these two retire that is what we could be looking back on because of the amount that they could end up playing against one another the longevity over which they could be playing the evenness of it the level the contrast contrast they've kind of got everything that that is a great rivalry but it does come at a cost for the rest of it because a lot of it is pretty dull a lot of it is pretty inevitable um along the way and and the difference is so vast right now i mean personally i would i would still take it it's up it's up to them to to get closer my big relief is that there is the other one because it could very easily have been one of these guys.

29:22And then you've just got total domination.

29:26Jannik Sinner: Don't you feel anxious about injury risk? Like statistically, especially given, you know, insert everything everybody's saying about length of calendar and season, et cetera, one of them's going to get injured. I mean, Alcaraz got injured today. And it looks like he's okay. But it feels precarious to me, the level of reliance men's tennis has on these two. If you think of the grand slams that Sinners won that he hasn't played against Alcaraz, they have been... I mean, the final against Medvedev was exciting.

30:04But the Fritz one was dull. And the Zverev one was pretty dull. And look, you get dull grand slam finals. It's not that you don't. but I do think that that that is absolutely a possibility in the future but then I also think somebody will come along somebody will come along and and and realize they can they can but but we may not know who they are yet you know they're maybe about 16.

30:34Jannik Sinner: Charlie I know you've got a date with Carlos Alcaraz in a few minutes um to just get your I'm keen to get your impressions on the week as a whole this is your first time at the finals in turin is that right in turin yeah yeah a veteran of london once but yeah and when i first went to turin my immediate impressions were oh they've just picked up london they've picked up the o2 and they've transplanted it here is that how is that how you've felt with that as a comparison point like what's your experience been yeah i mean the production is the same basically so the look and feel is is extremely familiar i mean it is quite a strong brand though i think like the atp finals with the colors and all of that sort of thing so you instantly kind of know where you are i it's sort of exceeded expectations um i mean matt and david were talking about this on friday like you know this can be quite a flat event at times like i remember a lot of those 02 ones especially the group stages were real snooze often um whereas we've had some you know we had some really good group stage matches i mean since then you know i think it will be the last eight matches or certainly seven will have been straight set so since that kind of early and middle group stage period it hasn't been uh kind of really close but that said there have been some good straight set matches within that the cine factor is just so big because that gives it all such a kind of vocal point like It feels a little bit like when a host nation at a major footballing tournament or any tournament, when the team goes all the way to the final or something, so there's still that energy.

32:10And it can be a bit of a sag if the home nation does go out. Having Cine here means everyone's so invested and engaged. And even, you know, like the Alcaraz getting booed and that sort of thing when he's shown on the big screen, which is kind of nuts. But it does also show how much people are into this. You know, this is not a crowd where the semifinal is a bit of a sort of, you know, where people aren't really that switched on. You know, sometimes at the O2, certainly that kind of midweek daytime crowd, which is a lot of corporates, could feel a bit flat.

32:45Jannik Sinner: Don't really get that here. So I think it does have a kind of edge and an energy to it. And it will do as long as Sinner is so good. And just tennis-wise, tying it into our last discussion point, has the week up until today felt like a formality to you? Have you been like, this is fun, but I'm away from home, missing my family. Can we just fast forward to the final, please? Because we all know where this is going. i mean i think the at least there were the subplots of like alcres getting world number one that kind of you know sustained the group stage and i had the same thought as matt but there was actually a bit of jeopardy in that i mean there wasn't because he beat mizzetti comfortably but had he lost yes he would have had the second chance but he would have then been playing sinner in the semis and he would have been a massive second favorite so it did feel a little bit like that was his chance to get one number one uh he got it i feel that more at the grand slams that feeling i really felt it at the us open and i think i said it in my voice note at wimbledon that it it is becoming a problem um the fact that basically what you have at the grand slams is at the very top level nothing until the final first week you can scratch around you'll find good stories because there'll be a player who got through qualifying and then got to the third round or something and it's like this isn't going to mean anything in the grand scheme of things but it's a good sort of self-contained story um but then you have a real sag after that lull of the sort of fourth round quarter semis here i didn't fit i didn't feel that in quite such an acute way maybe because it was ever thus in a way with the or at least with the atp finals there was an element of that before like i remember some of those ones at the o2 and it felt like djokovic winning was such an inevitability you know that and that was only one player and you'd have these fairly meh group stage matches between a bunch of players who were just so away from his level.

34:44So I haven't, and at least this time, I don't know, it just felt like it was going to be such a fitting way to end the year that there was enough of motivation. But no question, it's an issue. And I think it depends how engaged you are. It's a big issue for people like us who are super engaged. for casuals it's probably kind of great that you you're almost guaranteed this incredible final at the end that said i was slightly surprised like some casual fans i spoke to found the us open a little bit uh dull especially once like you know for british fans once draper went out i think that made a difference and it was kind of like oh well that was like the one other guy who we thought might do something other than um yeah and it's interesting on the rivalries point like it is going to be one of the great rivalries but I do wonder if there is a sweet spot of like a degree of scarcity making the matches feel a little bit more special and rare like you don't want that you don't want them to not happen ever obviously that's really bad at one extreme but I'm I don't know and I'm just formulating this thought like in the moment but I don't know if playing all the time is necessarily the best like I think sometimes it not happening all the time makes it more special when it does happen and it makes it feel almost like more of an achievement and less just like an inevitability which it isn't because they have to play incredibly well to get there but in our minds it just feels like well yeah of course you're playing each other

36:08Jannik Sinner: i agree with you in principle like the ideal world is that these two play a couple of grand slam finals a year and we're wondering and but the alternative is one of them playing somebody else in a Grand Slam final that's also fun and exciting. At the moment, the alternative is one of them playing Alexander Zverev in a Grand Slam final or Taylor Fritz. And, you know, all due respect, like, full of admiration for Taylor Fritz and what he did in particular in that match against Carlos Alcaraz. In the words of your colleague James Hansen, he is this era's great maximiser. But, like, the prospect of that Grand Slam final does not make my heart sing in the way that Alcraz Sinner does.

36:56Jannik Sinner: Just before we let you get to Carlos, an honourable mention for Lorenzo Mazzetti. What was that like to be there for? Yeah, I mean, the fact that he's about to have a second child as well. I mean, the sort of... He can't even go to the Maldives, Charlie. No, he's about to enter an even more stressful situation. How is that possible after this kind of, in his own words, nightmare pursuit of getting to the Tour Finals? And he gets to the Tour Finals and wins a match, and that's amazing. But, like, what a time to be Lorenzo Mazzetti. I mean, I just can't imagine how kind of frazzled he is on, like, every level.

37:37But so great that he did get a win. And I hope he can sort of have some time reflecting on it, but maybe not given what's on the horizon for him. But that and yeah, that's another, you know, that definitely added an element as well because he's hugely popular here, too. You know, obviously Sinner takes so much the oxygen out of the room, but there's a lot of love for Mazzetti. He had his moment. Yeah. And yeah, it was a kind of fitting way in some ways that for it to end him both kind of winning and losing, which was sort of the theme of his this weird pursuit for the ATP finals. They didn't actually get there on ranking in the end, but then was straight away given that reprieve.

38:19And whereas this time around, it was the other way. He got the win. And then a couple of days later, he was sent packing. But yeah, that was another element that made this a great, a better than average 18th finals, I would say, because you're not always guaranteed those subplots because we're talking about the best eight players. So there often isn't the like, just winning a match is an amazing thing, but it absolutely was for him.

38:43Jannik Sinner: yeah I think that's the the scene I will most remember from these these ATP finals Lorenzo Mazzetti celebrating winning one round robin match at the ATP finals like he'd won a grand slam yeah loved it Charlie going to see Carlos Alcaraz interesting to see how kind of gutted he is actually yeah and the big thing I do want to ask about is the injury and I'm sure he'll play it down like you know he's he just will that's what tennis players tend to do but even just getting clarity exactly what it was when he first felt it all of that sort of stuff because it's hard like in my piece that i've written off the match it's hard to really talk about because until you've heard from the player you don't want to overstate it or undersell it but um yeah that'll be something that will go into the once the quotes are added i think will be sort of him giving some context on that but um yeah i don't imagine he'll be too crushed because really like when they play it's the rest of the field that's the big loser i mean and i think this was a fitting end to the year because two grand slams each and that but alcries gets world number one sin has atp finals like whose year would you rather have they you know it's kind of either or but but it's it's fittingly even-handed because this year has been about and last year has been about two players not one really that's where we are it's the duopoly it's not a monopoly like it has been um and for them you know it just feels like everyone's a winner kind of especially the fact now as well that sinner was able to close that gap 4-2 for this year is very different to 5-1 um jolly you're forgetting the six kings slam i do not include this i did not forget it uh i'm absolutely not including the six kings quite right we're going to include the practice set that they played at the start of this week go off Charlie

40:39I'll ask about the Six Kings slam how big a factor Carlos was the Six Kings slam

40:47Jannik Sinner: go and ask him that important journalistic question Charlie thank you very much for your time you got a little round of applause earlier in the show the applause you can hear is the Bull Boys have now come into this area so that's where the sort of background cheers are coming from they're having their sort of debrief they're demob happy um they're enjoying your contributions to tonight's tennis podcast charlie they love the tennis podcast these italian huge demographic uh thank you very much your time uh get home safe and we'll see you soon yeah see you soon thank you cheers bye see ya they've um they've learned one another's languages haven't they alcaraz has been doing press in italian and Sinner's been doing it in Spanish.

41:33Jannik Sinner: Like, could these two love one another anymore? Like, have rivals ever had this much of a love in, David? I mean, I think at the end of their rivalry, I think of Martin and Avatalova and Chris Evert and Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal. They all did. And I think John McInerney and Bjorn Borg, but not during. That's the difference. there was aggro really if you think about it between Nadal and Federer early on because Federer was so unused to anybody challenging him whatsoever then Nadal came along with his little habits and his delays and the chat from the box and the fact that he kept beating Federer and Federer didn't like it and I mean there were moments where there was tension between Martin and Avratilova and Chrissie Evert but they they still remain great friends but i've never seen a cross word between sinner and our crowds you know even they genuinely look whilst disappointed for themselves and a bit crushed that they haven't won genuinely pleased for the other one because fair enough you beat me fair and square i never get there's never any sour grapes there's never any sort of you were lucky or you slapped that one onto the baseline with too much points against you or anything like that it's just they really own it don't they and um and i mean i i think for some people that and look we're a we're a show that trades off aggro and uh that sort of sweet spot and we don't we don't get that with alcaraz and sinner but i don't i don't care it's so exhilarating watching them there's so much jeopardy when they play both in terms of what's on the line but also the way they can both hurt each other you know it's not one of those i mean i remember i remember getting very excited early on about the andy roderick roger federer rivalry and i mean i you know he beat him what twice over all those years and and that's the thing that this isn't like that even even though that alcaraz has won more of them it kind of has always sort of felt like sin is more of a problem for Alcaraz to solve.

43:50But I think it does make it fascinating at every level.

43:56Jannik Sinner: David Ferrer, Matt, will not have enjoyed tonight's match, will he? It's all right. He's picked Pablo Carreño Busta. Things are fine for the Spain Davis Cup squad. No, look, I mean, I have been very sort of reassured and impressed all throughout the week. You know, Alcraz has been saying two tournaments left, you know, this and Davis Cup. He's really been keen to point out that the Davis Cup is a big goal for him still. He's mentioned it in all the interviews that I've seen. So I'm sure he'll go. It didn't, again, as, you know, Charlie's right, we have to hear it from Alcraz himself. But from the outside, It didn't seem like a sort of season-ending injury.

44:47You know, he was still able to play in that second set. And I suspect with a few days rest, Spain don't play until Thursday in the Davis Cup. So he has got a few days off. I suspect he'll play. But no, look, not ideal if you get a compromise, Carlos Alcaraz. That's for sure. if he if he pulls out does david frere have the opportunity to call up davidovich for kina it's a good question i i'm not i'm not au fait enough with the davis cup rules i would i would think maybe not you know it really doesn't seem like davidovich for kina and for even speaking terms at the moment. So I'm not sure that's going to happen.

45:35He might call someone else.

45:39Jannik Sinner: Well, he's already called Pablo Crot. Who's he going to call? Bautista Raghu? Get him? I mean, is he still a player? Yes, he is. But I mean, come on, surely if you're calling somebody, it's Davidovic for Kina. I was joking, really. You've got to be able to swallow your pride, haven't you? I don't know. We will see. We will see. Muzetti, incidentally, in very predictable tennis news, is out of the Davis Cup. Predictable, but nonetheless. On reflection, odd that he actually did commit to the Davis Cup in the first place because I'm pretty sure he said that his girlfriend is, you know, her due date is next week.

46:20So that was never going to happen, was it? I think even without all the matches he's had to get to Turin.

46:32Jannik Sinner: Sinner and Mazzetti becoming Caballi and Sonnego good players as they are it's it's different isn't it that's that's tough for the Italians they've got Berrettini do you remember what a vibe Berrettini was at the Davis Cup last year yeah and how much how desperate he was I do he's just not that good a tennis player anymore but maybe he can be in Bologna. I say that as somebody who's had him in my fantasy team all year, thinking, you know, it's only a matter of time. He's going to spark back into life, but it hasn't quite happened. Before we move on, anything else we want to say about the singles at the NITO ATP Finals 2025 or about Yannick Sinner or about Carlos Alcaraz or about Felix Auger, Eliasim and Alex de Menor, if you like?

47:28Only that I thought that they, certainly Dimonor, put in a heck of an effort for a set and actually really played some high-quality stuff against Sinner. And it really took proper Yannick Sinner at his best to win that set. And then he just totally took over. Ogilvy, I see him actually played better than he did against Zverev. And he got handled very handily. and I think that tells you again the difference between the top two and the rest but just a great effort overall from those two to get where they got to and you know I think I hope that they leave this year I'm sure Felix will but I hope Dimonor does as well I hope they leave Turin feeling really good about themselves.

48:15I think just to take David's point even further because I agree with it what i enjoyed about yesterday's semi-finals was that yes you could look at it and think oh it's just a total foregone conclusion that alcaraz and sinu got through to the final but they were actually forced to play really well you know like it wasn't just alcaraz in second gear winning and sinu in second gear winning which i think we have had at some of the slams and maybe that's contributed to the to the slight lull in some of those it doesn't feel like they're being fully pushed and tested but I actually did think Dimonor and Urjeli Asim sort of brought out the best of Sinner and Alcaraz you know it was like Sinner put in this great performance from the end of that first set onwards and then it was like oh okay now I'm excited to see Alcaraz tonight and it felt like Alcaraz almost responded to that and came out and played probably his best tennis of the week in that opening set and look i love their rivalry and generally i do want jeopardy in in matches but i also just really like seeing them play at their best and i feel like they they did do that on semi-final day so even though they were two straight sets wins they were kind of enjoyable matches because we got to see suno and alcaraz like actually playing well and and that was a fun sort of element to this tournament i would say um and just the very final uh alcaraz point if i may you've you've put it in the agenda catherine the the answer that alcaraz gave to

49:48Jannik Sinner: spanish radio this week uh went yeah great question uh was it was very directly asked would you take the Australian Open and no other slams next year or would you take two non-Australian Open slams? And obviously the key there being that the Australian Open would mean he completes his set and wins the career Grand Slam. And pretty much without hesitation, Alcoa has said, next year, Australia. He would take one Australian over two other slams, which is a very interesting insight into the mindset going into the start of next season, how big that is. Because obviously that's the one where he's kind of got to break serve, right?

50:35He's got to take it off Sinner, who's won it the last two years. It's a big challenge for him. But, you know, even in that speech right there, when he said to Sinner, I hope you're ready for next year because I will be. I just think he's going to come out all guns blazing, firing, going for that Australian. At the one point. Yeah, that'll be his prep. Yeah. That's got me even more hyped for the Australian Open.

51:03Jannik Sinner: Yeah, me too. That got me going, that comment. He's got two more chances at the Australian Open to be the youngest man to complete the career slam, hasn't he? He's got this go and he'll have another go in a year's time if he doesn't do it this time. but then after that he'll be older than Nadal was when he won the 2010 US Open completing his career slam so yeah pumped for Australia and I think my follow up would be okay what about an Australian Open or three of the other slams you know like how far are we pushing this because I get one Australian over two I think it'd be hard to turn down three other slams over one Australia.

51:53Especially when the next one after that is the Australian Open and he could win it then, you know.

52:01Jannik Sinner: OK, well, we'll ask him. I guess we'll have to. We'll ask him next time we see him. Matt, you're at the Davis Cup. Yes, that's true. I can ask him this week. OK, well, everyone's going to... You've talked yourself into having to ask Carlos Alcruz a very punchy question there. The people will be disappointed. just last question before we move on when is Yannick Sinan next going to lose a match on an indoor hard court it's been two years it's been two editions of the ATP finals without dropping a set

52:33I wish I had a better answer than stunned silence

52:40Jannik Sinner: could it does it have the potential to be a look I'm not going to say Nadal Clay esque streak because I'm not sure anything in sport has the potential to be a streak like that but one of the streaks that go down in history maybe not because there's no slam on Indoor Hard so it just yeah I mean listen certainly wouldn't surprise me if we're sitting here in a year's time and he still hasn't lost one that's not the bold prediction I was expecting from 12 in a row guy, David. I thought you were going to say five years, ten years. Twelve in a row guy is sticking to twelve in a row guy. So, you know, we're looking at number two next year.

53:32Jannik Sinner: Okay. That is it for part one. We'll be back in part two to talk about the doubles and also some interesting comments that ATP CEO Andrea Gaudenzi has had during his time in Turin. Today's show is brought to you by Vanguard. To all the financial advisors listening, let's talk bonds for a minute. Capturing value in fixed income isn't easy. Bond markets are massive, murky, and let's be real, lots of firms throw a couple of flashy funds your way and call it a day, but not Vanguard. Vanguard bonds are institutional quality. Institutional quality isn't a tagline. It's a commitment to your clients. It means top grade products across the board.

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56:09Jannik Sinner: Welcome back to part two of the Tennis Podcast. We need to talk about some doubles. Harry Halevara and Henry Patton beat Neil Skubski and Joe Salisbury in the doubles final. 7-5, 6-3. Three Brits, David, in this final. It's British domination. Yeah, and even more in the semi-finals as well because there was a British pair beaten in the semifinals as well with Cash and Glasspool. This was impressive. I mean, this was a repeat of their round-robin match as well, which actually Skubski and Salisbury had won 10-7 in the third set tie break. And looking at Patton and Helio Vara after that, they were pretty gutted.

56:55I think that they thought that they were going to win that match. They were leading it. But then they rebuilt all the way through. didn't lose another match they just they just actually got better and actually their score lines got more one-sided as they went along um and which i think is really impressive for a doubles pair i mean in in a tournament like this i mean the early stages of this thing everything was going the distance um in in all the all the matches but they are a serious pair i mean this is a pair that's won wimbledon last year then then they won the the australian open this year as well it's been a bit it's been a bit quiet relatively speaking the rest of the year until now um you know just just just relatively speaking but suddenly now they've gone and taken this thing as well you're right though i mean british doubles teams have got it going on i mean you know we've talked for a long time about the impact of louis kai at the lawn tennis association and how he's just being able to come up with this blueprint for doubles teams.

58:00I mean, I've heard him talk about it in the past and the detail and the knife edge between winning and losing and the few extra points that you have to win in order to win matches. I mean, he has got it down to a fine art and has put that into practice. And there's been a raft of coaches that have then taken that on and players that have taken it on. And yeah, I mean, it's astonishing when you think when I was watching tennis in the 90s, I remember Tim Henman and Neil Broad reaching, I think, the Olympic final in Atlanta in 1996 and getting a silver medal. and Neil Broad was the only double specialist that I could think of.

58:46I didn't know any, you know, you either played singles and doubles like the Woodies and Elting and Harhouse and Henman played some doubles or you just didn't have a career, you know, and he managed to be the double specialist. Now, not one of these players plays singles, but they, my word, can they play some doubles? And they picked up a pretty tasty check there, you know, for winning the thing. I think, you know, over half a million dollars to win the thing. So, yeah, congrats to them and all these teams. I mean, I do share Matt's view generally that I think women's doubles is a better watch than men's doubles now because it is so serve and volley dominated.

59:32But still, you know, these players, that's not their problem. It's like when I was sticking up for Sampras and even Isovich in the 90s. You know, this is just how you play tennis and you go and win.

59:42Jannik Sinner: Yeah. And shout out Louis Kaya, as a lot of people are in the comments. The doyen, as you said, David, of British men's doubles. It's a shame that there's not the same situation in British women's doubles. It feels like that's a bit of a miss. Maybe that's coming. Incidentally Skubski and Salisbury, the beaten finalists, are splitting up, I believe after this. Skubski is going to team up with Christian Harrison so Evan King is available just waiting by the phone. Joe Salisbury I'm not sure, I think maybe he's taking a break for a few months and people are saying in the comments that is what I'd heard I'm sure he'll be in high demand when he does want to come back to the sport.

1:00:33Jannik Sinner: But yeah, the usual awkward sounding breakup conversations going on behind the scenes in the world of doubles at the end of the year. Last thing to touch upon from Turin, Andrea Gaudenzi. This is obviously the finals and the Riyadh event for the WTA. these events are the jewels in the crown for the tours who don't have the same stake in the slams. These are their biggest events. And Andrea Gandenzi, the CEO of the ATP, was obviously a big presence there this week and he did quite a lot of media. I saw him on Sky TV's coverage here in the UK and he also did a press conference, which we've read the transcript of.

1:01:21Jannik Sinner: and obviously the schedule David was the hottest topic that people wanted to grill him on and obviously the changes to the schedule and in particular the extension of the 1000 events to be 12 days long they're kind of his calling card at the ATP so I don't think anybody was expecting him to say yeah you know what I realise now I've made a bit of a doo-doo let's row back on that because that's I don't know we don't live in a culture where anyone admits failure do they um but there were if you there were some lines to be read between I think would you say yeah well I felt and it was interesting reading Matt Futterman's big deep dive in the athletic into what Gaudenzi has brought along and how he's tried to solve one of the problems of the the atp owning being owned 50 by players and 50 by tournaments by lengthening these these tournaments in order to make the the finances of all the tournaments transparent so that the players could all see them and and that they could get more money because there were more days we know how it it all works and we've heard jack draper's complaints against them but his point seemed to be you can't just give up on something just because people aren't liking it at the moment you know you don't do that in any business you have to give it some years to to try and and you know matt futterman mentioned a sort of date of 2030 in sort of five years time when maybe it could really could be changed but i'm looking at and listening to people i don't know maybe felix augenia seem is the only person i've heard in any public utterance say that he's having a great time at all these events he said it the other day um in his post press comments but every pun i wasn't sure about those comments from augenia seem they i mean i'm pleased to hear that he's having a great time but there seemed to be a bit of an empathy failure there from yeah i mean i i think if we if you got into the detail of actually well how do you feel like when you're at these two-week tournaments i'd love to know what if you actually drilled into the detail right maybe he just doesn't like to hear people complaining right okay but but i mean i'd like to know his opinion on the actual detail because i do not know of a player i have not heard one player even with the extra money say that they're really liking this new system all fan no i don't know anybody who likes them tim hen was on telly today saying that there's too much irrelevant tennis and you know i realized that's not they're not irrelevant events but you've got day upon day of them and you've got so many events and and i just i sense that gaudenzi probably knows that ultimately this will probably have to they'll probably have to make some changes because people aren't going to stop complaining.

1:04:30People aren't going to just get used to it and start liking it, I don't think. They're horrible. They're awful, these things.

1:04:37Jannik Sinner: Do you think it'll be after Gaudenzi's reign ends? Do you think it'd be too much of an admission of kind of personal failure? I mean, he's in his second term now. These terms tend to be three or four years long. You know, maybe he'll do more. I don't know. but it does become one of those things that you can move on to your next thing and then somebody else has to sort it all out and maybe change it back because they don't agree with it, like presidencies. It's one of those. But he wasn't exactly throwing his defence behind how great it was. It was more sort of give it some time. I've done what you all asked me to do.

1:05:21I've got you more money. I've opened the books of these tournaments, you know, kind of, and it's bloody hard. And it is hard. I agree with him. It is hard. But this was your big idea.

1:05:34Jannik Sinner: That's why you're paid very, very handsomely, because it's a hard job. Yeah, this was your big idea. And frankly, nobody likes it.

1:05:49Jannik Sinner: Matt again you've got to follow David I'm afraid I mean just a very maybe minor point but I was very struck in that press conference by the very repeated references to F1 which I do find a little bit curious You know, like he was almost talking about not necessarily wanting Sunday finals in tennis because it's competing against F1. And, you know, he didn't totally rule out the idea of midweek finals because, you know, maybe that's a better time to have it. He sort of won't be clashing with other stuff at the weekend. And he sort of very much, it's just such a different sport to F1. You know, there's this very, there's this line that gets trotted out.

1:06:40oh F1 so great you know exactly when the weeks are and exactly who's going to be playing when and I don't know I just think that's that's if we're trying to go down that avenue like I don't think we want there to only be 20 tennis players that we all know about you know I think we should be trying to really expand the number of tennis players that can sort of make a make a living from the sport and I don't know it just seems to me that even with sort of break point I felt like tennis was very sort of influenced by F1 I don't know it seems a bit spooked by what's by the sort of success of F1 and that's definitely something tennis should be looking at but not like thinking we need to necessarily do exactly the same that was like I agree with all of your points but I did try and just pick out something different about the press conference and that that did

1:07:33Jannik Sinner: jump out yeah i i thought the stuff about sort of not wanting to compete with f1 i found very odd like i mean if that's your concern like stop competing with yourself stop scheduling like how often are tennis finals all on at the same time like yeah what are we doing why are you worrying about clashing with an f1 grand prix um but i do i think i am slightly more sympathetic to the I mean this is probably a whole show in itself and now might not be the time to deep dive on it in fact I'd find it a very interesting show to do at some point but I think F1 is the ultimate example of a well packaged sport I think in terms of packaging a sport to make it optimally attractive to an audience I think they've nailed it Because the sport itself, unless you're a real petrol head and you love cars, the sport itself isn't very interesting.

1:08:35Jannik Sinner: Like, it's a niche sport, watching cars drive around. They've packaged it so fantastically to make it interesting to an audience. Whereas tennis, the actual sport, is a thousand times better than F1. Again, like there will be, you know, niche preferences, but to a mass market, the sport is so much better. The packaging is is shite and complacent. I feel like F1 has gone. We cannot afford to be complacent. We need to maximize everything we possibly can. Whereas tennis, I guess because the sport is so great, is, I think, really complacent and messy. Yeah, I agree with that. About how it packages itself.

1:09:20Follow the example, but don't just copy. It's a totally different sport with a totally different ecosystem.

1:09:28Jannik Sinner: But I do think there are... I agree, but I think just things like... I think they've got exactly the right amount of supply of the sport. I do think there is too much supply of tennis. Now, I agree with you. The thing to do isn't... There is also the issue of there not being enough tennis players that can make a living from the sport, but there needs to be a better sort of tiering system within the sport to make it clear to sports fans, this is the tennis you need to care about. There are other people, I don't know, playing for a tour card or something that can make a living from the sport and can try and work their way up the ranks.

1:10:10Jannik Sinner: But F1, it's very clear as a casual fan, like this is what you need to pay attention to. So this is what you need to care about. And I think it's the right volume of supply versus demand to kind of maximize interest, the right amount of scarcity. Yeah. Anyway, this is far deeper dive than I intended. But I agree with you. It caught my eye, too, like the sort of slight obsession. And certainly it's in Gaudenzi's head. I don't know if he's a particular F1 fan. I mean, it's big in Italy, isn't it? Because of Ferrari.

1:10:52Jannik Sinner: But yeah, there we go. I have somewhat derailed us. Shall we talk about what we've got coming up this week? And what Matt's got coming up is a flight in just a few hours' time. So getting derailed by a conversation about Formula One probably wasn't on your agenda. I took us there.

1:11:14Jannik Sinner: It's the Davis Cup this week, Matt. You're going where Lorenzo Mazzetti could not. Your nightmare continues. Yes, it's very tennis, moving on to the next thing straight away, flight in less than 12 hours. But yeah, it's the Davis Cup. It's a new venue, obviously. We've been in Malaga for a few years, So I'm excited to see it in Italy and, you know, having seen the crowd in Turin and what, you know, the energy they gave that tournament. Let's see the energy that the Davis Cup has. There's a lot of European nations at the Davis Cup. Seven of the eight are from Europe. So hopefully, you know, they'll all have pockets of support and there'll be good atmospheres.

1:12:06and generally I do find the Davis Cup because it's a bit different when everyone's tired at the end of the season you do need something a bit different a bit of vibe to help you get through it so I am looking forward to it very much

1:12:22Jannik Sinner: We've got a lot of pods it'll surprise nobody to hear we've got a preview tomorrow less than 24 hours from now Matt will be in Bologna then we have a show on Thursday to review the quarterfinals we have a show on Saturday to review the semifinals and we have a live show on Sunday so exactly a week from now to review the final I'm not going to be so bold as to advertise a time for that because we got lucky tonight and I feel like we're not going to get lucky to two Sundays in a row but we always you know we hope to be here at eight and tennis tennis has its say but we'll be here whenever that might be um just to do a little preview of a preview who do we think's going to win the davis cup i'd still probably go italy even though sinnery missetti aren't there would you really probably you're such a caballi guy david such a caballi believer as you that's very correct matt uh i I think, depending on the state of Carlos Alcraz's hamstring, I think I might go Spain.

1:13:34I think he's pretty determined. You'd have to think Germany are a threat too. Yeah, because Zverev's playing, isn't he?

1:13:42Jannik Sinner: Some odd comments from Zverev about playing the Davies. I mean, either play or don't. Don't play and make it clear that you're kind of above it. Yeah. And I'm only there for Struffy because he's getting old. come on David I thought you'd go France it's your two guys Rinderkinesh and Moutet it's such a David coded team Mbert's out Moutet's in imagine if I'd got Fies, Rinderkinesh and Moutet in the same squad one day that would have been irresistible to me ok we'll be back with a a full preview tomorrow with Matt in Bologna. Folks, AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the 14500 use the ServiceNow AI platform.

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1:15:41Jannik Sinner: We have mascots, plural, for today's show. Wait till you see the photo. This is Jules and Kobe. Unsure whether Jules is being is underneath or on top.

1:16:05Jannik Sinner: OK, here we go. Jules is the brindle and white one. So Jules is astride Kobe, who is underneath and not looking that happy about it. That is the expression that Billie Jean was giving me at the driving range yesterday morning. I'm doing this, but I'm doing it for you, not for me. Jules, so the one on top. Jules was born under a porch on a farm almost 12 years ago. Since we brought her home, her love of hidey holes has persisted. And because we realised she missed her canine friends on the farm, we took in Kobe from another family looking to rehome him when he was just under a year old. Oh, you got Jules a friend.

1:16:50Jannik Sinner: Although they were born a month apart and are both Boston Terriers, it took some time to really bond. But what started as reluctant companionship is now a lifetime connection. As seniors, they frequently nap, but their puppy energy still appears at regular intervals, especially during our walks in the woods. Kobe loves his toys and Jules loves her treats and our whole family loves them both. With a newly empty nest, I rely on them for conversation and interaction throughout the day and they keep the joy going in a quiet house. That is lovely. And that message is from Karen and her family. Husband Jeff, kids Brendan, Colin and Ali who are the family of Jules and Kobe.

1:17:34Jannik Sinner: That's a Hall of Fame picture right there. Straight into the Pet Mascot Hall of Fame there, Karen. Very well done. Hello to our mascots, Phoebe, Maisie and Roger. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. We salute you all. And Matt, we have some shout outs. We have Jason Werner. Hello, Jason. Hi, Jason. Like Jason Stoltenberg. Oh, good memory. who took over coaching Leighton Hewitt from Darren Cahill. And he coaches somebody. He pops up. He pops up in a Sensations box every January. I used to quite like watching him play, actually. Did he? He was a good player. Yeah, yeah.

1:18:30I used to get a kick out of his game.

1:18:33Jannik Sinner: Jason Coogler's getting a shout-out in the chat over here. speaking of sensations where's he gone? he'll be back in January yeah ripping it up you won't be able to move for Jason Kovlo in January I can't wait they'll have a road to the title on the screen

1:19:05Jason Jason, all we know is that he's from Doylestown in the US. Oh, do we know where Doylestown is?

1:19:16Jannik Sinner: That sounds like somewhere that would be featured in a Bruce Springsteen song. Pennsylvania. There we go. Doylestown is a borough in and the county seat of Bucks County, Pennsylvania, which is somewhere that I know from following CNN election coverage in days gone by. OK. Good stuff, Jason. Next up, we have Isabel Cantin from Montreal, Canada. Hello, Isabel. Hi, Isabel. And Isabel went to the US Open this year and says that she had the best time watching Manorino Shelton before the injury. Oh, yeah, that was good as well. Yes, that was when Manorino came back from the loo and found out he'd won the match.

1:20:08Yeah. That was one of the more iconic moments of the year.

1:20:15Jannik Sinner: Tennis Isabels. Come on. Isn't there a British doubles player?

1:20:28Not one that I know.

1:20:29Jannik Sinner: Sounds like the sort of... Tennis Isabel...

1:20:35Jannik Sinner: Isabel Demangeau. Former professional tennis player from France. Born in September 1966. Turned professional in 1983. Retired 96. Career high singles ranking of number 35. Isabel Demangeau. There we go. Thanks, Isabel. He was on the tip of your tongue, David. That's right. Yeah. Nick Imerson was shouting at his screen. I'll expect an email tomorrow. I'll be seeing Nick tomorrow. Maybe not because you can get it in person. Yeah. A full week of in-person shout-out suggestions. We love Nick. We love Nick. Thank you, Isabel. And finally, we have Charles Friesen from Vancouver. Hi, Charles. Hello, Charles.

1:21:26Jannik Sinner: Charlie Eccleshire And Charles would like to shout out Cliff Galang Who is the current president Of the VTA Vancouver Tennis Association Which is Vancouver's LGBT Tennis club Awesome Go on Cliff Cliff Drysdale Yes Very good Have we got a Charles? No Carlos Alcaraz that's Spanish Charles isn't it very good yeah okay Charles Cliff Isabel Jason thank you ever so much for your support and love for the tennis podcast we will be back tomorrow with our next show Matt safe travels to Bologna thank you looking forward to speaking to you from there we are too Thank you to Charlie for his time and takes on today's show.

1:22:27Do check out his stuff in The Athletic.

1:22:30Jannik Sinner: We are part of The Athletic Podcast Network. Thank you for listening and for watching live. Thank you to Hannah and Vicky in the chat and for stewarding things ever so brilliantly. And we will speak to you tomorrow. See you then.

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