Blockbuster WTA Finals field set but will Djokovic make Turin?

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1:13Matt Roberts: Well, hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast coming to you on this Monday morning to talk about a lot of things. It's been a busy old week in tennis. On the ATP side of things, we've had our Matty and Brussels and Leon. And on the WTA side of things, we have had Ningbo and Osaka and we have had the WTA finals field finally set. There's also some news to talk over and a lot of stuff to look ahead to as well. David is on holiday, but Matt is here. Hello, Matt. How are you doing?

1:47Catherine Whitaker: Very well, thank you. Good to be here and good to be on with our guest. I feel like normally he's covering for me when I'm ill or away. We've done a few pods together, but it's nice to do another one.

2:00Matt Roberts: Absolutely, yeah. He's supposed to be on paternity leave, but he's got takes he can hold in no longer. Most of them about Matt's performance in the Wrexham one-point slam. Charlie Eccleshire, how are you doing? I'm very well, thank you. Yeah, it takes a lot to get me off paternity leave. so far three things while I've been off in a tennis sense. An interview with Rafael Nadal last week, a story on single-handed backhands that had been in the works for years and the tennis podcast. So that is the big three in a sense. Nadal being Nadal, Federer being the one-handed backhand. So that makes you Novak Djokovic, I suppose.

2:38Matt Roberts: So we're following hot on the heels of Rafa. I saw the interview with Nadal when Top of the Athletic a couple of days ago. There were some some very funny and a couple of quite devastating lines in there i think the line my body was over is gonna yeah yeah sort of even worse than andy murray's my until my hip is finished yeah he's pretty frank on that he was talking as well i was really surprised he was saying how it already feels like a lifetime ago that he was playing he was like you know it's hard to even remember that was a tennis play you know that was kind of the gist of it um which you know i think he is someone who try who does kind of i mean like as he like as he played you know he lives very much in the moment next point next thing um but it is weird you know you think of these people who have had these all-star careers and i get you know they can't then spend the rest of their lives just thinking about it and reflecting and looking back um but yeah he seems to move forward pretty quickly which makes what he's promoting of course he was chatting to charlie because he just wanted to chat with charlie eckleshire but of course also also promoting this beautiful sounding coffee table book but which is very much sounds very sentimental and nostalgic and obviously backward looking in a way that doesn't seem like it suits rafael nadal necessarily yeah well i mean you think that's kind of how that's how i started the story was that you know for someone who doesn't like looking back he's done a fair bit of it this year because obviously there's the netflix documentary series as well and this and it's funny because i was talking to his publicist and he was saying how raf always hated having his photo taken so you've got this guy who hates having his photos taken hates looking back with this like gorgeous coffee table book about him and also because he says in his own in his own mind you know he's not federer federer has one of these books as well already done by the company Asseline who do these very beautiful coffee table books Federer I think in most people's minds is Mr Coffee Table book Nadal doesn't think of himself in that way but even though I mean I always think that's overstated you know the kind of the Federer was the artist and Nadal was you know the kind of just tough guy I think Nadal was a beautiful player in his own way and you know it doesn't conform to that stereotype were you sent the ultimate version i was not sending the standard version i was sent the standard version yeah the ultimate the ultimate signed version is like three grand or something uh and yeah the ultimate even not signed comes with these white gloves because it's so kind of delicate as in like i was saying The regular version.

5:26Matt Roberts: White gloves like the handlers of Grand Sam trophies have to wear. Exactly, yeah. Okay. Or like, you know, you're dealing with it by a tapestry or something like that. You know, this is precious, precious goods. I got the regular version. Still costs about 100 quid. Last question on the Nadal interview. Was he speaking, it was over Zoom, right? Yeah. Was he speaking to you from the big room with the enormous fish tank in, which was revealed in the content he recently did with Andy Murray, the room it looked like he'd never been in before in his life. It was not the fish tank room, no, disappointingly so.

6:04I'll request that next time.

6:07Matt Roberts: Yeah, because he sort of implied this is where I do all of my work stuff. My best thinking. But he also looked like he'd never seen that room before.

6:17Catherine Whitaker: Murray was like, this is very different.

6:19Matt Roberts: This is not what my house looks like. Right, let's get into it. Let's start in Ningbo and the return to the tour and to form and seemingly to fitness of the world number one Elena Rabakina, comfortably winning the title there. her fourth of the 2026 season, beating Leila Fernandes 6-2, 6-2 in the final, defending her title in Ningbo. It's her first title as the world number one and the first time in her career that she's defended a title. And it does mean that in Tokyo this week, where she's down to play, she can secure the year-end number one. At the start of this week, Charlie, we still had a fitness question mark over Elena Rabachina.

7:13Matt Roberts: And we need to stop speculating about whether Elena Rabachina is not fit to play tennis because, well, she keeps on making us look silly. Yeah, I was thinking that. Where have we been there before with Elena Rabachina questioning her fitness and her making everyone look really stupid? Yeah, I mean, it's weird to think that she hadn't, I mean, she only played one match since being officially confirmed as the world number one, you know, post US Open, which obviously she lost. And there have been cases of people, you know, getting the world number one and it feeling like a real millstone. You know, a fellow Russian born player, Yevgeny Kofelnikov famously had this, you know, just channeling my inner David famously had this like terrible run.

7:57I think that actually was just like got him to our number one he had had a run of first round losses and still became our number one but that carried on

8:04Matt Roberts: lost six matches in a row after something like that number one it was spadia-esque exactly until he played greg um but yeah obviously you know nothing like that for a back and a but you know I'm sure for her she has she loses her first match she has a few weeks wanted to you know just get going as the world number one and settle into it and so this was a really perfect way to do that I suppose and certainly the final I mean it was very very comprehensive much more so than I was expecting in some ways. It is striking Matt how what I find it striking I don't know I don't know if this has struck you this isn't something you talked about how comfortable she looks as the world number one in fact she looks potentially more comfortable than I've ever seen her those scenes at the end she had her mum and her sister there on the court with her having those photos taken and she just looked really at ease and genuinely comfortable and happy which you know reading body language from the outside isn't always easy especially with somebody like Elena Rabakina but it looked like pretty genuine joy to me which is really great to see for Elena Rabakina.

9:17Matt Roberts: And it's not a given that players are super comfortable as world number one, like the person with the target on their back.

9:24Catherine Whitaker: And I think we commented on the genuine joy that we felt like she was experiencing at the end of the US Open as well. Those scenes where she was carrying the trophy outside and embracing the fans just felt a little bit more joyful and a little different to some of her other Grand Slam wins, which was great to see. I also remember really feeling like she was definitely really motivated to get to world number one during the US Open. Like it seemed like a really big deal for her as much as winning that title obviously was. And yeah, it was nice to see her mom and sister there. They've, you know, her sister obviously used to be a regular at her matches.

10:06Catherine Whitaker: You know, we all remember her face during that tie break against Blinkovo at the Australian Open a few years ago. And obviously, you know, she's been pretty absent from the scene, given everything that happened with Vukov and her mum as well. So it was nice to see them there. Incidentally, Vukov wasn't at the tournament this week. And yeah, I thought she was superb in that final. I think there was a real difference in energy levels between the two players. Fernandes had had a pretty gruelling week to get there, having a number of three-set matches that she had to battle through and did really well to get to that final, whereas Rabatkin had had a retirement in one of her matches.

10:52Catherine Whitaker: She'd only had to play the three matches to get to the final with a bye. There was a difference. But I think of that match-up as a little bit of a barometer, actually, of how Rabatkin is playing. She's played Fernandes a few times, and they've been ordeals. There've been so many double faults. There've been so many breaks of serve. And with all respect to Fernandes, that should not really be happening for Rabatkinner against Fernandes. They're just in different classes, really, in terms of the power that they can get on the ball. And honestly, Rabatkinner just totally dismissed Fernandes in this one.

11:26Catherine Whitaker: It was almost like Fernandes just wasn't able to impact the match at all. I thought Rabatkinner was awesome off both wings. so many winners, getting angles on her ground strokes to get out of some of those fast exchanges from the baseline that Fernandes wants. And yeah, it was a really authoritative, world number one performance from Rabatkinah. Good to see.

11:51Matt Roberts: Watching from afar, Charlie, I know you've been watching a lot of tennis, just monitoring the single-handed backhand situation. Always. Been a good week for that, actually. Yeah. and potentially an interesting week coming up like the rise of Elena Rabatkin during your paternity leave how surprised have you been by it? Not suggesting any correlation there The two go hand in hand I think of Charlie as such a Rabatkin guy I have always really extolled the virtues of seeing her live she is one of those players the sound and everything like that. Certainly, the decline of Sabalenka and Ryza Rabakner, I think those two things do go very much hand in hand.

12:44And since Wimbledon, which was my last tournament, I mean, obviously Sabalenka, US Open aside, has just been in this incredibly steep decline. But that could have created a situation where Rabakner almost got it by default. But that absolutely hasn't been the case, obviously. I mean, she's really grasped it. And yeah, I think Matt used the word authority there. And I think that's really pertinent to her. She is playing with that authority, with that confidence, with the, I want to say strut. She's not really a strutty kind of person, but like for her, a kind of low-key strut, you know, that, you know, as if say, yeah, I am the world's best.

13:25And it's so interesting now to see how much that can carry on with the target on her back and the pressure of having to maintain and not just be trying to chase, which is a very different dynamic. And does Sabalenka have any kind of response? How much is Rabakina in her head as well? Because it did feel like that in the US Open final. It really felt like Rabakina was the one with the upper hand. I know obviously Indian Wells went Sabalenka's way but you know the two Grand Slam finals this year gone to Rabakina she's wrestled the world number one ranking so yeah been been really impressive does she as well and yeah like does she have the kind of personality to dominate the sport um well she looks really comfortable at this point but it is early days but that is something that we've always been so struck by with Sabalenka I think that she has seemed to really enjoy being the world number one really enjoyed the limelight really enjoyed all the extra attention i don't think that's necessarily rebecca's personality naturally but maybe she'll be a different kind of uh of world number one but it's yeah really really impressive how she's just grasped it these last

14:37Matt Roberts: few months the uh the title in a circuit the w2 250 event happening there won by katerina Siniyakova. She beat Ashen Kruger in the final 6-1, 6-love. She's obviously going to go to Indian Wells in the WTA finals and be heavy favourite to win the doubles title there, having almost qualified twice with different partners. Not quite, but almost, which is absolutely bonkers. And that's a sixth career singles title and her first since 2023, which given her career high ranking, she was inside the world's top 30 in 2024, that's impressive. And she was a player that came up in our friend's show on Tuesday debating current players and their eligibility for the International Tennis Hall of Fame.

15:27Matt Roberts: And we all agreed that Sine Arkhova is a lock in the doubles category. And if she needed any boost to her case, then the fact that she's also maintained this very healthy singles career kind of on the side is a crazy good achievement. Results in Osaka and Ningbo this week mean the WTA finals field is set. El Race is over on the WTA side of things. Rabakna obviously qualified, Sabalenka, Andreeva, Pagula, Goff. And then we have Alina Svitolina who confirmed her qualification last week. Linda Nozkova and Karolina Mukova. Mook of Iga Svjontek shut her season down after withdrawing from Ningbo with an injury, the same injury that we saw her struggling with last week.

16:14Matt Roberts: It was kind of a relief to see her call it on that and not play on through the injury. She's already in the Maldives. Well done, Iga. That's how to do the end of the season. And Marta Kostjevic's hopes of qualifying ended in retirement for her against Ekaterina Alexandra in her first match in Ningbo. So it was an exciting race for a while there, but did kind of peter out because of how tough it is to go on a nightmare tour and try and pull off a last gasp qualification. Looking at the finals fields, it's interesting, isn't it? Because at the start of the year, I don't think any of us would have been shocked if we'd been shown that field.

17:08Matt Roberts: The obviously one shock would have been the absence of Iga Shiantic. But generally speaking, there's no like, oh my God, I never saw her coming names in there. And yet it feels like it has been quite a surprising year in women's tennis. Would that be fair? Yeah, the Shiantic thing definitely, yeah, that's a big surprise. I mean, I think it's such a strong, interesting field of eight players. it is a shame just from a um sort of fan perspective i guess that the race doesn't go on longer and you kind of now you just want to get to it because we know what it's going to be um i mean you look at that a like are they all in your australian open mixes is there anyone who's not there that is i mean like that feels like a pretty and maybe that's typical i mean you are talking about the world's best eight players but that feels like a very strong and And quite a small gap from first to eighth, I would say.

18:06Sometimes you might have an eighth player who's kind of snuck in and you're kind of like, well, they've got no real chance. But this, that is such a strong, interesting eight, reflecting the fact that there have been so many different... There have been, what, the maximum number of 1 ,000 and Grandstand winners almost. There have been so many different winners. I mean, obviously, yeah, we're back in a winning two of them, but there's been such an even spread.

18:34Matt Roberts: Charlie going early with the Australian Open mix question there, Matt. I'm not responsible for this, but I am going to request that you answer it.

18:44Catherine Whitaker: Do you know, it's weird. I still hold Iger Svjontek in such high regard, having just seen her top level for so long that I would, even though she's not in this field, I would probably put her in the mix for the Australian Open. over, this feels mean, but I would say over Svitolina at this stage. And actually, interestingly, looking at the field, I saw that Sabalenka, Rabatkin and Svitolina are the only ones in that field this year who have a winning record over the rest of the field. Now, Svitolina has been that good in 2026. She's beaten so many of these players and absolutely deserves her place there.

19:28Catherine Whitaker: it's just that Grand Slams are a bit of a different thing aren't they and and like Svantec has obviously shown in her career that ability to level up and I really thought Svitolina could this year going in to the French Open I absolutely had her in the mix but it just hasn't quite happened so she might be the she might be the one I think you could also level that at Pagula as well you know that ability to really level up and and step up but certainly all the others I would say would be in my mix because of, because of the top level. And I think you're right. Like on the men's side, if we get a lot of players in the mix, it's because something catastrophic has happened.

20:08Catherine Whitaker: And like those top players have gone and suddenly it's like, oh my God, anyone can win this tournament. When you get a big mix in the WTA at the moment, it's the opposite. It's a pool of really strong players. And obviously I think we're back and has marked herself out as, as kind of the leader of big events. And you would always put Sabalenka and Goff kind of really up there towards the top as well. But there's very little between them and Mukovo and Noskovo and Andreeva, as you say. So it's very compelling for the WTA finals and throwing it forward to next season as well.

20:44Matt Roberts: How much more Shontek decline would there have to be? or how much longer would her current status of not being in the top eight have to endure for you both to start taking her out of mixes?

21:02Catherine Whitaker: I certainly need to see a clay court season with Francisco Roig, I think. She's talking, isn't she, about that partnership and how she feels it's on the right track. And I think we definitely saw some signs of that through the summer where her game looked better, I would say, than how it had at the start of the year. She still absolutely needs to improve her serve. I think she knows that. But she's so good on clay, like historically, that I can't imagine going into next season's clay court swing. And I'm not really still thinking about Shiontek as one of the favourites for the big tournaments.

21:43Catherine Whitaker: and it does feel like as she's working on her game, it might just take a week for everything to click and the confidence to come. But if we get through next season's clay court swing and suddenly we're in a situation where she's had a good chunk of time with a new coach, she's had a couple of clay court swings where she's not ended up winning Roland Garros, that will, I think, I'll then start to really think about her in a new light, I suppose. but I think she needs a bit more time and to get back on her favourite surface, I would say. But I'm interested in what you think. Yeah, I mean, just zooming out, I do think, you know, before this season, she'd won a Grand Slam in each of the previous four and five of the previous six.

22:31So that, to me, means you can, you know, it's one year of not, or one season of not. So that gives me, I think that with that perspective, you can say, okay, you know, she hasn't done it this year, but that doesn't mean, you know, it's not going to happen next year. I think as Matt says that she's quite rare in some senses on the WTA side of having such, you know, a surface where she's so or has been so dominant. so a little way off there is just such a ingrained memory of her you know being so dominant so successful and she's shown enough flashes I think of that this year of that top level and also you know we've I think you can't be so saying to her oh you know you need to be more patient and all of this and then when she seemingly is being a bit more patient and trying to do the right things and play in a certain way then want the short-term results necessarily.

23:30So I think it's right to give her this time. So yeah, I'm a little bit off that still. I still do think she's one of the best. And even by her standards, disappointing year, we're still talking about a top 10 player. This isn't someone who's had a huge drop. It's just at that very top level, she's not been able to deliver like she used to be able to.

23:53Matt Roberts: I don't think she's going to fancy going to Indian Wells as an alternate, is she? No. I would be very surprised if she's up for that. She's not going from the Maldives to Indian Wells. No, I suspect Kostiuk won't do that, given the injury. Evie Jovic, I think, might be in. Yeah, it's Jovic and Schneider then, isn't it? Right. I suspect they'd be up for it. And historically, you know, there's a very good chance that at least one of them does get the chance to play. And there's so much money on the line, isn't there, that just getting to play a match is a pretty big deal. Obviously, Sabalenka, talking about the Sabalenka decline, it's very different to the Shontek decline.

24:39Matt Roberts: She's still the world number two and I'm not suggesting for a moment we're anywhere near taking her out of mixes. But I rather suspect she would think of this season as a bit of a catastrophe. given her standards. Like, how confident do you feel that she will regroup for next season and this won't be a continued decline? Yes, I would still give her that benefit of the doubt just because it hasn't been that long a period of decline in the grand scheme of things. And as you say, it's not been, you know, we're still talking about a year in which she got to two Grand Slam finals. So it's not been like, by most people's standards, it's been a very good year.

25:22Obviously, one of them was right at the start of the season before this decline had started. Yeah, it is kind of a hard one to make sense of to the point where you almost wonder, like, are we going to, is there more to it than we realise? Like, you know, are we being unsympathetic or are we failing to understand a certain thing? Or maybe this just happens in sport. Maybe the margins are so fine that just a little drop-off at that level can cause this level of pretty huge decline. Again, caveating everything by her standards. Like you say, she's still the world number two. So at this point, my sense would be she's such a phenomenal competitor, such a phenomenal player, that she will bounce back and that she's got to be one of the players who we're expecting to win the biggest titles again next year.

26:13but it is funny I mean like each week it seems as though when you guys ask the question like you know who needs a big week who needs a week it's always Sabalenka isn't it's always Sabalenka yeah that question is always you know it's been her for so long um and that's not wrong like that is that is the reality but at some week she's going to need to have this big week that she really needs I mean you'd look you know throw forward the WTA finals she's probably the one who most needs that kind of successful week to reassert herself. You know, for Rabakina, she doesn't need it in quite the same way and the WTA finals isn't going to define her year.

26:53She's already had an all-time great season with two Grand Slams. For everyone else, I think it would be a great bonus to win it. Sabalenka, she's the one where you think, okay, could that just lift her a little bit and get her aura back, crucially, ahead of 2027?

27:09Matt Roberts: I mean no she loves the conditions I mean Rabakina does too she's got a great record there but like compared to a goth say conditions wise you give the edge to Sabalenka though it may be very different we don't know I mean playing in November

27:26Catherine Whitaker: I suppose so much I think one of the things I think about with Iguys Fionte you know Charlie mentioned the fact that you know she obviously won a major in 2025 you know given given the hindsight like that is beginning to feel like the kind of outlier in her last couple of years it was obviously brilliant and you're not going to take that away from her and she absolutely deserved to win it it's just that if you look at the full body of work it still feels like that Wimbledon title came in a period of decline that she hasn't really been able to get back and I think Sabalenka's US Open is going to be interesting to look at you know Was that final run a sign that, don't panic, the level is still there, it's just that she needs to find it more consistently, or is that going to end up looking like a little bit of an outlier and actually it's in this greater period where things are going wrong?

28:25Catherine Whitaker: I think the harder thing for me is that with Svantec, it's been more easy to pinpoint some of the reasons, I think, why she's been losing matches, you know, a transition of game style, the serve, you know, even the fact that she used to just absolutely lay down these so dominant scorelines. Almost they got turned on her. You could paint this bigger picture of, okay, I can see some stuff that's going wrong here for Svantec. With Sabalenka, it's so often she's been losing the real margins of these matches and she's been close, but things have been repeatedly going wrong in big moments. and she's been losing leads and losing composure and all that kind of stuff.

29:08Catherine Whitaker: It doesn't really feel like the game has declined. It's felt a little bit like her mentality and her sort of clutchness has gone. And I don't really know how to read that. Is that something that you can get back? I don't know. So I really don't have the answer, but that's kind of just how I compare the two.

29:28Matt Roberts: Makes me think of Andrea Pekovic's take from I think this was ahead of the US Open, but it still very much stands, which is that she thinks the loss to Hayley Baptiste in Madrid was critical. I mean, obviously, you know, Madrid is the origin of the decline. She'd won everything pretty much leading up to that. But the nature of that defeat, having had six match points. I think it was six, yeah. Six match points. Like as a world number one, losing six match points against a, you know, significantly lower ranked player. That's pretty rare. And, you know, Petrkovic's take was that kind of altered something in her brain chemistry a little bit.

30:16But then she does things like beating Nozkova in that match at the US Open, which is like so... If she, if her head had gone, I just don't think you're winning that sort of match. And I've said this before with you guys. I do think Sabalenka is so fascinating because you can't quite pigeonhole her in that way. She's still capable of these incredible mental feats, even at times when it seems like she is struggling in that regard. I really do wonder as well, and obviously this is now separate to that, this has happened after, but I do wonder how different and difficult it is for her. The psychology for her before was always, if I play my best, I win.

30:53Which, you know, it puts a pressure on you, but you're also in control. Now she doesn't really quite have that for the first time in a really long time. Because even when Trivante was in the world number one, you always got the sense that Sabalenka backed herself and would almost quite relish. You know, they never get to play. So we so rarely find this out. But, you know, and she did. You know, she went and beat her Atron and Garros bagel deciding set. Whereas now there is this player in Rabakina who does seem to have the upper hand in that rivalry. And I just wonder for her how difficult that is to deal with that she's not necessarily the alpha yeah i think that's a really great point makes me think of

31:32Matt Roberts: matt's book and sort of how brilliantly he wrote about you know success in tennis being about sort of finding your sense of self and identity and personhood in your tennis and her identity is i play my best i win and i i she she has been stripped of that somewhat this year i think that's a really good point in a field of the 8 best players in the world is there any are there any of these 8 that you would be surprised to see win? Like are any of them not in the mix? It's just to win this event Yeah for the finals Yeah I mean we're going to come on to some other Svitolina stuff in a moment like there has to maybe be a question mark over her and where she's at which I mean last time we saw her she was suffering with that forearm injury as I say we'll come on to talk about other stuff with her but she's the player with the least pedigree in the field she has had this awesome year and she has won this title before yeah and as you say there's certainly a huge amount of uncertainty because it may you know often we see players or people you know in life or sport whatever it is that actually really relish having their job to focus on when you've got a sort of maelstrom going on around you that that's where you're that's kind of your safe space and a bit your happy place because you can put all that stuff aside so it could go that way but yes obviously it could go anyway when you're dealing with something as as big in your personal life uh as she is then look I always, just because they're often, and you know, this is maybe a dated view because she's had such a great year and largely injury-free year, but there are always slight concerns, especially at the end of a season, that would she be able to deal with the demands necessarily of this event?

33:34Hopefully that doesn't come into it for her because she's definitely got the game to beat anyone.

33:39Matt Roberts: She might be one of the freshest though because she had the confidence not to get embroiled in a nightmare at all. She said, I back my points total. Yeah, I thought that was a real gangster move from Mukova.

33:55Catherine Whitaker: I think someone I'm really interested in is Andreeva actually because she's someone who's obviously had this incredible year managing to win a first Grand Sam title. she's also the player in the field with the fewest wins over the other players in the field and generally her record against the top players this year has not been that impressive she obviously did a great job winning Roland Garros by managing the pressure because she was favored in all of pretty much all of those matches she played and and that felt like a big development for her because she'd struggled sometimes when she was the favourite, but she did so well to manage all that in Paris.

34:38Catherine Whitaker: But I think there maybe are some question marks just at the moment about her level compared to some of these other top players in those matchups. I think generally she feels comfortable playing them, but she hasn't won many of those matches against the very best players this year. So I'm kind of interested to see where her game is at, I think, at the end of this season, which has been a breakout. But I think the next step for her is getting consistent wins over those fellow top 10 players.

35:10Matt Roberts: It's a great field, isn't it? I'm really pumped for the finals. And a lot of it's going to be at pretty antisocial hours for UK audiences.

35:22Catherine Whitaker: Although they are playing early in the day, aren't they, in Indian Wells because of what Charlie was talking about, the different conditions it's too cold to play at night now in november there so i think matches are starting at i want to say midday local time which is which is about eight eight p.m here so you know could get get a couple of matches in get into that before bed absolutely

35:45Matt Roberts: uh now coming back to alina svitolina i'm sure pretty much everybody listening has has heard about this really, really sad news this week that she and Gail Monfils are parting ways. She wrote on Instagram this week that this is the most difficult thing I've ever had to share. Everyone knows how much Ukraine means to me. What I've rarely spoken about is what the war has done to me inside. She said, last year I told you I needed to step away from the court because I wasn't in the right emotional space. Today I wanted to open up a little more. What you didn't see were the sleepless nights, the doubts and the feeling of slowly losing myself.

36:27Matt Roberts: She says, Gael saw all of it. He never let go of my hand, fought through this together for a long time with everything we had. But some battles happen deep inside you and no amount of love from someone else can win them for you. She said, with time, I came to understand that I need to find my way back to myself and that I cannot do that within our marriage. hardest truth I've ever had to face and the hardest thing I've ever had to tell the person I love. She said, Gael, listened. He has respected what I need with the strength and grace I will never forget. He loved me through my greatest joys and my darkest moments and I've loved him with all my heart.

37:04Matt Roberts: Together we built a beautiful life and we were given the most precious gift of all, our daughter Sky. Sky will always come first. Our marriage is ending but our family is not. We will always be her parents. Please know that there is no one to blame here. There are only two people who loved each other deeply and a story that is changing shape. We ask for your kindness and for the space we need to heal. Thank you for your love. Now, kindness is not what they got, certainly not what she got from many, many corners of the internet. So much so, she received so much abuse for Talena that she had to put out a second statement or felt she had to put out a second statement to clarify what she had meant.

37:52Matt Roberts: But the abuse continued, shockingly, if not more so. And that prompted Gael Monfils to put out his own statement, condemning the abuse and appealing for it to stop. He said even though she did not owe anyone an explanation, Alina chose to speak vulnerably and truthfully about her reasons for this decision. She did so in the best way she knew how. Many decided that her explanation wasn't perfect enough. And Alina has now faced a kind of criticism that I have found unkind at best and venomous at worst. He said, though my heart hurts, I'm forever grateful to Alina for her support and love over the years.

38:33Matt Roberts: He said, I found the lack of grace and kindness shown towards Alina upsetting. he says while some may not understand her reasons or agree with them please remember that there is so much more that happens in a relationship behind the curtain that cannot be explained in a post Alina has her battles to fight just as I have mine I respect her choices and reasons and we will continue to support and care deeply about each other especially as two people who share a child um look I know this is very very difficult to have takes on people having takes about the end of a relationship that they know very little about is part of the problem here.

39:14Matt Roberts: But I didn't think I could be shocked by misogyny on the internet, Charlie, and I was this week. I was really disheartened and quite downcast about the stuff I saw circulating about Alina Svitolina in the wake of this announcement. I really felt like, wow, people hate women even more than I thought they did. It was tough. Yeah, the whole thing was very upsetting. And the reality is that it just wouldn't have happened, you know, without all the question marks about why is Monfils not playing his last few events? Like that's what kind of meant there was this sort of vacuum that needed to be filled by what was actually going on.

40:05The sad reality is they, I mean, they probably would have just, I don't know, they wouldn't have done it then. Because they probably, I'm sure there was a lot of fear from, certainly from her, probably from both of them about how it would be received. Not that they would have expected it to be quite so vile, probably. But yeah, I mean, you know, hopefully it's, well, clearly it's the right decision or they both feel it's the right decision. you still can feel really sorry for both of them and yeah clearly that the war has had such an effect on her and will continue to do so that is 100 something that people don't think about you know we tend to think about these sorts of conflicts occasionally when say there might be a big drone attack that's in the news or that kind of thing but obviously for people who are going through it it's on their mind all the time and you know interviewed marta kosher curly this year had a long long interview with her and you realize how omnipresent it is um for everyone from ukraine uh so yeah i all you can really say is that you know just i hope they're both as okay as they can be in this situation as you say we have no idea what's going on no one does it's a private relationship but they're both people who i think we will have a lot of time for and just I hope they're alright

41:31Matt Roberts: Yeah, I hope she has been at least somewhat shielded from what's been said about her on the internet, the fact that Monfils has put out that statement and I'm so glad he did, the fact that he's done that suggests that perhaps she hasn't been and it's obviously very difficult to be shielded which is a terrifying thought really I hope she's okay. I mean, obviously, I hope both of them are okay. But, yeah, who knows what to expect from her on the tennis court in the weeks and months ahead. There's also the situation here where, I mean, I know in most events there are Russians and Belarusians in the field, but this is an eight-player event and it's, you know, the big photo shoot on the eve of it is a big feature of the event, the iconic photo shoot Alina Svitolina doesn't have her photo taken with Russian and Belarusian players she steps away after the coin toss when you typically do the the photo at the net she they have individual photos taken with with the mascots she she doesn't have a photo taken with those Russian and Belarusian players will she want to be part of that photo shoot or will she absent herself or will she you know she'll probably get hate for that if she does either way like and i could understand if that's entering entering her mind like that's a really that's a really good point and what do you think just like zooming out a bit but what do you think is a sort of responsible appropriate way of uh addressing this as the media i mean like obviously this is a huge uh subject for her like what would your approach be if you're in that press conference in indian wells do you sort of and i wonder if if there will almost be something said at the beginning of the press conference because what do you know do you it's it would be a huge elephant in the room not to ask but at the same time you don't want to kind of be really you know just be question after question on this topic which is a private matter and I think I really do think would have remained a private matter were it not for the fact that they had to come out because to stop all these these rumors about why Monfils wasn't playing these events I mean you're probably better placed than than us to answer that answer that question um i mean i i would sort of i i would like to know sort of how much of it she's seen like what um as much as the answer to that might might be um harrowing um i mean i guess it's possible she might have views on the kind of social media side of that and yeah what more can be done about that Yeah.

44:34And just like if enough has, if she feels enough has been done to, yeah, to kind of tackle and deal with the torrent of abuse that she must have received. That at least might have a, you know, some sort of effect going forward. I mean, obviously it rarely does, but that could be one thing that comes out of it, I guess.

44:56Catherine Whitaker: could you i don't know ask a kind of relatively open question about you know just how she's feeling her preparation and sort of see where she takes that answer and if she's if she's willing to talk about it maybe you can ask a follow-up but if she doesn't mention it in answer to that question And I personally would probably leave that, but I get what you're saying there about how it does feel like it's a big part of her story right now. Yeah.

45:34Matt Roberts: Yeah, absolutely. OK, that's a tough one to end part one, but we'll be back in part two to look at the ATP events this week to update you on L-Race. which is very much hotting up on the men's side of things. And we'll be looking ahead to this week as well. Don't worry, we haven't forgotten about Wrexham. Today's show is brought to you by Vanguard. To all the financial advisors listening, let's talk bonds for a minute. Capturing value in fixed income isn't easy. Bond markets are massive, murky, and let's be real, lots of firms throw a couple of flashy funds your way and call it a day, but not Vanguard.

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47:54Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast. Turning our attention to the ATP now. Now, we've had three 250 events this week in Lyon, Almaty and in two different venues in Brussels. They've had a big impact on the race to Turin and the upcoming events that we have this week, the 500s in Basel and Vienna are set up beautifully for this exciting race to Turin to continue. So let's start in Lyon. The title there won by Lorenzo Musetti. He beat Taylor Fritz 6-3, 6-4 in the final to win his first title in four years. The last time Muzetti won a title, Emma Raducanu had as many grand slams as Yannick Sinner and Carlos Alcaraz combined.

48:45Matt Roberts: Is that a Matt Roberts special stat?

48:49Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I was quite pleased with that one. There's no newsletter this week because David's on holiday. So I thought we'd get it into the show. Yeah, crazy. And like he's had his best results in that time. You know, he's got to Grand Slam semifinals and won an Olympic bronze medal and been a player at 18th finals. Been ranked as high as number five. Right. But he's been on this crazy streak of losing finals. He'd lost seven in a row prior to this one. And honestly, frankly, even the fact he got to the final this week was somewhat of a surprise, given the season he's had, really, and the amount of injury that he's had, the SOAS injury at the start of the year, then the thigh, then most recently managed to break his finger in a practice session.

49:41Catherine Whitaker: It really felt like Lorenzo Mazzetti was cursed on court this year. But, I mean, it's one of the most compelling title runs of the season, I think, all the way through. You know, he had Kwame in his second match. And that match was really interesting because Mazzetti was getting booed by the crowd during it. You know, I've rarely seen a player take as many medical timeouts as Kwame did in that match. And Mazzetti was getting pretty annoyed by it. He shushed the crowd at the end of it and then had to use his on-court interview to kind of defend himself and try and win the fans back. and then he's playing a Frenchman in the next round, like Luka Van Asch, and that match goes on for three and a half hours.

50:27Catherine Whitaker: It is pretty much as slow as an indoor hardcore can get in Lyon. Sludge. I mean, Van Asch and Mazzetti just could not hit winners. They were both playing beautifully and constructing these rallies, but they're both such good movers and don't have huge firepower that just getting through the other one was just such an ordeal. And Muzzetti, I thought he was injured again in that match. He pulled up. It turned out I think it was cramp and he was just struggling physically with his conditioning. But I thought, oh my God, he's injured himself again. But somehow he comes through that one against Van Asch at one in the morning, having had to turn off his phone alarm because he had it set for an anti-doping.

51:15Catherine Whitaker: you know he had it set that that was his hour that he was going to be available for anti-doping he didn't want it to disturb the match I've never seen that before on court and he comes back at 4 p.m the same day to beat Flavio Caballi from a set down and suddenly he's in the final and somehow I think produced his best performance of the whole tournament in that final against Taylor Fritz who had not been broken all tournament and Mazzetti breaks him in his first service game with the most brilliant return game. Backhand winners, forehand winner and honestly the whole week that match in particular such a reminder of how good Mazzetti's variety can be.

51:58Catherine Whitaker: How great he is in defence. He was driving Fritz absolutely nuts. Those lobs. With those lobs and the retrievals and the ability to change the tempo and the rhythm of the rallies but then have a real punch as well. Great to see Mazzetti playing like that again. And he's such a confidence player. I think he takes knocks really hard. Like when he's injured, it really affects him, I think, for a long time. It takes him a while to build the confidence back up. But he seemed to be really playing with it today. and it did remind me actually the whole run of his Monte Carlo run last year where he kept coming from a set down and it just felt like he didn't end up winning that title.

52:40Catherine Whitaker: He got injured in the final, but he built up a lot of resilience that tournament and it was almost like I'm going to be tough to beat again and it felt like he had that this week where even though it was one in the morning and he was knackered, even though he was having to come back the next day, he was just competing so well and his level was so good And it's by far the best we've seen of him since Australia. So, yeah, really, really great to see.

53:06Matt Roberts: Made Fritz look one-dimensional, didn't he, in that final? It was really an incredible performance. I mean, I just could not believe that off the back of that Van Asch match and then beating Kabali, I mean, that was amazing, to come back and beat Kabali. and then I did just think in the final it being Mazzetti and him having this finals record and being such a long drought chucking the injury record such a demanding week up against Taylor Fritz I really think that is such an incredibly impressive win like I yeah I couldn't believe how well he played as Matt said that first game uh to break uh the first returning game he had having held from, I think he was down love 30.

53:54And that's the thing, Fritz kept going to love 30, 15, 30, couldn't get a break point. And Mazzetti won something like 10 points in a row in those first few games. And he had back-to-back, backhand down the line winners and then a forehand down the line winner. Just so good to see. And like, I mean, yeah, that Djokovic match in the Australian Open, I can't believe that that's this year. It feels so long ago. So much has happened. like he's that was so rough like that was one of the saddest moments of the year seeing we were watching that together weren't we yeah we were yeah we were on court um and yeah had that suddenly

54:28Matt Roberts: of like oh my gosh this is what's been a real miss he has been yeah he has he's in that bracket absent all year but it's been an injury blighted enough the year that it feels like we've just missed out on Lorenzo Mazzetti in 2026.

54:45Catherine Whitaker: And I think as, you know, as Charlie wrote about with the one-handed backhand, there's been this stat, hasn't there, that this has been the year, the first time in history where a men's player with a one-handed backhand hasn't got to a Grand Sam semi-final. And obviously it's been on the decline for a while, but you've had Federer for so long and Wawrinka and Gasquet and Tsitsipas and Thiem. And it kind of feels like Mazzetti has kind of been, I don't know, maybe the last bastion of the one-hander. And I think a week like this shows how effective it can still be. Like, obviously, I think it's clear that the two-hander is the big advantage in the sport right now.

55:28Catherine Whitaker: But Mazzetti's ability to hit the ball down the line, but kind of inside out, is extraordinary. And he was catching people time and time again with it. that is much easier to do with a one-hander than it is with a two-hander. And he had that beautifully this week. And, yeah, he also feels like the current single-hander who's most likely to get back to a Grand Sam semifinal level, given his age and how good his top level is. So maybe the single-hander can come again through Mazzetti in the next few years. But, yeah, it was a lovely reminder to see his tennis this week.

56:10Matt Roberts: especially as we're about to lose stan from that list it's his farewell tournament this week and in basel we'll we'll look ahead to that in part three but he's he's set himself up nicely got a nice little win over martin lander luthay this week um charlie big stan i don't think i knew you were a big stan guy yeah i mean i kind of feel like most people are aren't they stan is pretty well liked i just think like what he did was like just so phenomenal because obviously for anyone to do like we saw what it took for andy murray who was like the next guy after the big three to win those three grand slams and to compete with them for stan favrinka to do i do think people forget like how little he was really talked about or thought about before he sort of probably that 2013 australian open when he took jokovic to five sets that was when people were like oh this guy's one but but he was still like uh on his day he can be a bit you know he can be a really tough opponent he was in the like philip kohlschreiber category you know like he certainly wasn't in the like burdick category of like okay he's the next guy or like del potro obviously or or even then someone maybe someone like nishikori you know those were the kind of next cabs off the rank so to speak he wasn't and so he kind of came out of nowhere and then to do what he did to win those three slams um and then have such a long career after i mean it's 10 years since he won the third of those three um and he was a late bloomer winning winning those hugely yeah yeah i mean he was like late 20 he was late 20s very unorthodox career he really has if you track if you tracked it on some sort of graph against like other major champions.

58:01Matt Roberts: It would look very, it would be a real outlier, I think.

58:04Catherine Whitaker: And he just totally, you know, was able to be so much better against the best players over five sets, which was such an outlier. Like, you know, the whole discourse was, oh, Nadal, Djokovic, the big guys have got this stranglehold over the slams. It's so hard to beat them over five sets. And Wawrinka was repeatedly losing to them on the tour. Like, barely beating them at all. His record is terrible against them. You think of him as a giant killer, and he was in the sense that he had these few isolated, very famous, incredible wins. But generally his record was really bad. His head-to-head is really bad against most of them.

58:44I've got so many memories of because he did it in the biggest matches on the biggest stages,

58:50Matt Roberts: when he would come up against them on tour level, you would big those matches up and you would give him the chances as if you think, well, he's done it on the biggest stage. He did it in the French Open final against Djokovic. Exactly. Why can't he do it? I feel like I've played quite a big part in bigging up some stammering matches matches that have flopped on their ass so so so badly well he's he was just like the most economical player in many ways if you think he has the same number of grand slam titles as murray from four finals compared to 11 finals uh you know like that's that's the difference he was a fat yeah like masters 1000s he won one you know like that that was him all over you know whereas and do you remember when he was asked he was asked about the big four wasn't he they were like do you ever get annoyed that it's not talked about as a big five given that you've got the same number of majors as Andy Murray he was like god no yeah if you've seen our records outside of the slams like no look at our 1000s no I asked him about that last year and he was like absolutely not he was like Murray completely different from where I was but yeah so I just I love that he picked his moments and, yeah, just seized those opportunities when they came.

1:00:17Catherine Whitaker: Did you see that little bit of content that came out of Murray's trip to the Nadal Academy where someone in Nadal's team was showing Murray around the museum and he says, just so you know, we have a big three room but not a big four room. Yes, yes, yes, yeah, yeah. And Rafa's always felt bad about that. And Murray's like, it's fine. I totally get why you have a big three room. And I really think that's, you know, I'm a broken record on this, but absolutely there is a big three. There was a big three. There absolutely is and was a big four. Those are different things. There was never a big five.

1:00:59Catherine Whitaker: And I think that always made Wawrinka interesting. He just operated outside of those dynamics. It doesn't take away from his career. He did what he did, but there wasn't a moment in history where it was the five of them all going for it at the same time in the way that there was with Murray as part of the Big Four.

1:01:17Matt Roberts: He was a disruptor, wasn't he? Most disruptors pull off the big win, but they don't collect the title at the end of the big win. He did the big wins and he got three major titles. Okay, well, his career isn't over yet. He's still got Basel to come. We'll talk about that. Go on, go ahead, Matt.

1:01:45Catherine Whitaker: I was just going to say in Lyon, Catherine, I thought you would have liked the difference in the trophies. It was one of those sort of novelty trophies that Mazzetti got. You got a lion, a roaring lion. It looked like somebody had gone to a car boot sale

1:01:59Matt Roberts: and just picked up what they got on the day.

1:02:04Catherine Whitaker: whereas Fritz got like a tiny wooden box

1:02:08Matt Roberts: yeah like it contained like someone's ashes or something

1:02:13Catherine Whitaker: it was very amusing to me and Mazzetti was struggling to lift the lion and needed to put it down at one stage yeah but yeah I liked it but it was odd

1:02:28Matt Roberts: in Almaty they too give away some very unique stuff to the winner the title in Almaty won by Daniel Medvedev beating Nikolos Baselashvili in the final 6-7, 6-1 6-3, defending a title for the first time in his career the fun Daniel Medvedev stat is well and truly dead isn't it he's not only winning repeat titles He's now doing it in back-to-back years.

1:03:00Catherine Whitaker: And this is the first time he's managed to win championship points at the same event. Because obviously in Dubai he had the walkover in the final. But he has now definitively put that stat to bed.

1:03:15Matt Roberts: And it makes his position in the race very interesting. I think it puts him up into fifth in the race, given other results this week that we'll come on to talk about. Charlie, are you surprised that Daniel Medvedev finds himself in this position? I'm so surprised and so impressed. I have to say, this time a year ago, hold my hands up, I just did not think this was where Medvedev was going to be. We've seen the decline of someone like Stefanos Tsitsipas. and I'm not saying I necessarily thought it would be that sharp. I thought Medvedev's good enough that he'll still be picking up wins, but top five?

1:03:56No way. I just thought, I really thought that, to me, his serve had gone. That was the big thing. He used to win so many cheap points. Remember how he would just win games in a minute? He would just be racing through those service games, and he had the shoulder injury, and he'd lost so much potency with that shot. And I was kind of like, well, he's a bit screwed here. And he was losing all those matches, first round Grand Slams last year. And yeah, I just did not see this coming. I'm so impressed that he has knuckled down and rebounded like this.

1:04:35Matt Roberts: It's kind of a halfway house between it's not, you know, Medvedev's back to being a... No. but he's arrested the decline

1:04:49Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I think, you know, Charlie mentioned his serve. He didn't lose serve in the whole tournament this week in Almaty, which just wouldn't have been possible for Medvedev last year. You know, like even in good serving conditions with balls that he likes, last year he would just throw in so many poor games on serve and be so much more vulnerable. That has been a real bedrock for him in the last month or so. He still had a very confusing season to me. He has, yeah. He's had real low points, you know, obviously the love and love, the default. He had that string of losses over the summer where the slams were a little bit there to be got at.

1:05:31Catherine Whitaker: You think of the way that Zverev has won two slams this year and the way that Medvedev has been better than Zverev in their own head-to-head generally in their rivalry. You've got to look at that and think that it feels like a little bit of an opportunity miss for Medvedev. But he's split with his coach. But then he's had these real high points like titles and beating Alcaraz and pushing Sinner kind of more than anyone in that spring period. And getting back in, I think he'll be at the ATP finals. He's pretty set to qualify. There's so many players we'll have to overtake him now. That is a really good season.

1:06:05Catherine Whitaker: He's close to 50 wins again on tour, which is a really good benchmark. benchmark so i found him i found him somewhat lacking in some of the biggest moments this year at the slams i think he's had a disappointing slam season but so good on tour generally to get himself in this position and i would have i'd have thought he would have signed for this year a year ago as charlie said where he was to get back into the top five i think is is is impressive And can he now kick on again and get the slam results back, I think is going to be the really interesting thing for him next season. I have some doubts.

1:06:44Matt Roberts: Well, they've dropped off so much.

1:06:46Catherine Whitaker: Yeah.

1:06:47Matt Roberts: Even just sort of getting back to being a consistent quarter finalist again would be quite a big leap from where he is now, slam-wise. Getting some non-blue on your Wikipedia page would be big for him. Exactly. He's managed not to lose to Benjamin Bonzi in a Grand Slam this year, which perhaps could be seen as a step forward from 2025. But do you remember, Catherine, we were together at that press conference at Wimbledon last year after the Bonzi defeat, and he was like clinging on to the fact that, yes, I've had a terrible year, but I did play quite well in Haller. Don't forget about Haller. It was like, that's what you're clinging on to.

1:07:22You're former one number one in Grand Slam champion. Quite delusional.

1:07:26Matt Roberts: He'd been, because we think of him as like the great realist, don't we? Exactly. And that was a weirdly delusional press conference. That's why, I think that fed into why I was just like, I fear for this guy. Because if you really believe, either you're just putting on a front, or if you believe that, that that's kind of, that makes this abysmal year okay, then... You really are a hallow truthist. Yeah, that's the real quiz kind of thing. He gets a nice hat, he gets a whole, he does rock the garb well. I think in Almaty, the winner's garb. I think he does pull that off. Are you a big... We had the retirement of Mikhail Kokushkin this week.

1:08:11Matt Roberts: Are you a Kokushkin guy? Struggling. The only thing I can ever remember about him is one year covering the Eastbourne tournament and John Inverdale coming in and saying how he'd been out the night before and seen Michael Kokushkin eating dinner on his own and he'd gone and chatted to him and what a lovely man Mikhail Kokushkin was. that's it for Kokushkin tales or takes but good luck to him have a good retirement event I think I remember Simon Briggs he played Murray at Wimbledon as well I remember he did and I think around that time Simon Briggs came up with I think what he thought was a really good stat that we'd be very impressed by about him having the most K's in his name of any tennis player

1:08:52Catherine Whitaker: Simon went through a real period of trying to push that K was the most over performing letter in tennis Yeah. Kukushkin, Kokunakis, Cage, Corey. Conta was big at the time. There was Kiros. There were a lot of Ks. Yeah. I remember when he says, yes, they're a cavalcade and spelling it with a K. Oh.

1:09:14Matt Roberts: Wow. Okay. What a time.

1:09:16Catherine Whitaker: He was a Davis Cup stalwart, wasn't he? Yes. For Kazakhstan with a K. Yes. And yes, he won a lot of matches in that competition over the years.

1:09:28Matt Roberts: Moving on to Brussels and the first ever ATP event, certainly to my memory, that has moved midweek due to a Duran Duran concert. Won by Talon Greekspour, despite being pretty displeased about the tournament changing venue midweek due to a Duran Duran concert. he beat Jan-Leonard Strouf 4-6, 6-3, 6-4 in the final. Strouf having got to that final courtesy of Art of Feast serving for the match in the semis and failing to convert. It's a big drama for Strouf on his route to the final. I just don't think I'm ever going to get over the fact that Brussels changed venue midweek with your own concert.

1:10:16Catherine Whitaker: that is yeah that is extraordinary yeah and um greek spores gripe seemed to be the the difference in the dimensions of the court and the and the amount of size side it's just a completely different court like yes talon it literally is and i have to say i was impressed that you know because he went on that rant having dropped the first set of his first match in the new venue against Lehekshka, for him to then turn that, like I thought he was going to absolutely tailspin and lose it at that point in a very Greek sport way, to be quite honest. But he really had resilience in this tournament. He came from a set down in his last three matches to win it, got over the change of venue and yeah, did well.

1:11:02I mean, he's quite a gripey character, isn't he? Oh yeah. I mean, watching this final yesterday, it's pretty stressful. You know, he is chirping away his team throughout. It was an impressive comeback. And as Matt says, for the last three rounds, come back from a set down. But yeah, he's a stressful watch.

1:11:24Catherine Whitaker: And he did very much need, maybe not need, but he benefited from, unfortunately, a bit of a classic strufe down the stretch there at 4-all in the third. Yeah, it was a horror game, wasn't it? Oh, the bad overhead. Two overhead misses and missed volley. Yeah, Vavali, forehand. Textbook Struffy. And he'd been the more clustered player.

1:11:47Matt Roberts: Yeah, if you told me ahead of that semi-final, someone is going to serve for the match and fail to convert, I would have bet my life on it being Jan and Ed Struth.

1:11:58Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, me too. Although, David would definitely have more to say. But Feast has got a bit of a problem at the moment. He keeps going up in sets and not converting them. He kept doing it against Vachero. He did it against Burtick the other week. Like he needs to figure out a way to close these sets. I do wonder whether, you know, the carrot of Turin and trying to get there is maybe weighing on him a little bit. He's in a new situation at the end of a season and perhaps he's feeling some of that pressure in these matches that he's not getting over the line in at the moment.

1:12:34Matt Roberts: Charlie, I feel like you're turning into our sort of obituaries guy on this podcast. but we had the last throws of David Goffin's career dice this week in Brussels. Didn't quite make it to the second venue. Yeah, a lot of farewells. David Goffin, another one. Always liked him. I thought he was a good player. He was fun to watch. He also obviously played his part in one of the great moments for British tennis of the last however many years, certainly my tennis watching lifetime he was the man who was lobbed by Andy Murray to win Britain the Davis Cup in 2015 in Ghent uh and I went to that final uh as a fan um and it was uh pretty spectacular but yeah I mean he was right there for a while I mean like a bit you know below that he occupied a space below where Vavrinka was obviously but he was kind of you know knocking around the world's top 10 and um he got to the find of the atp finals i think in 2017 maybe is

1:13:39Catherine Whitaker: that the year dimitrov won it he beat nadal and federer in that tournament yeah so like he you know he and he was a great clay court player and i think in his his last game here he finished with four aces didn't he yeah so you know quite a funny sign-off for david goff and and i think he was you know he was unlike Wawrinka who had the you know physical stature and the power to really go toe-to-toe with the best players. Goffin was always having to puncture above his weight. He was so slight so small compared to the other players and yet would take the ball early and really put players under pressure that way and I always think it's underrated how he got Belgium to another Davis Cup final a couple of years after that one.

1:14:25Matt Roberts: Belgium were really the K's of the World They were

1:14:30Catherine Whitaker: And that was because of Goffin He was so good in that competition Like pre-Covid David Goffin was a Very very fun watch and I think he First came on my radar with that Match against Federer at the French Open in 2014 Was he a lucky loser I think he did an on-court interview afterwards Despite losing And he looked like he was in a boy band He looked so young

1:14:57Matt Roberts: it's crazy yeah i love david goffman's back and down the line yeah so good shot so much uh okay we have significant race to turin updates for you i think we'll do that in part three as we look ahead to the week to come because i can run you through who's playing basel who's playing vienna because i think all of it's going to be very significant in the shake-up uh we do have one more event to cover from this past week. That was in Wrexham. Won by Hannah Klugman in terms of the actual proper tournament. She might just be the real deal, young Hannah Klugman. The biggest title of her career so far.

1:15:42Matt Roberts: She's still only 17, is a while away from turning 18. Klugman is the youngest British player on record to win a professional women's singles title at W100 level or higher. So good stuff ahead, hopefully, for Hannah Klugman. Wasn't the real event in Wrexham, though, was it? We all know what that was. Charlie, treat this next couple of minutes as a post-match press conference for Matt Roberts after the one-point slam. Take it away. just firing firing questions at him no i mean i will say for a start i was i mean because matt was putting on our group you know like the the question always and one was saying do you serve do you receive and i was very much supporting matt's decision to receive like that seemed to me the sensible one like she might be a bit tight you know all the pressures on her um so i backed you there Matt um obviously then I mean have you had regrets have you thought oh I mean obviously because it couldn't couldn't have gone any worse that sounds hard but you know

1:16:51Catherine Whitaker: it made the right totally accurate Charlie we drove all the way to Wrexham and I failed to get the ball over the net that is that's what's happened that's what happened but was the pro do you think the process was right to to receive or do you now look back and think you could have just maybe you connect with a serve i i i think you should stand by that man i don't think yeah i think it was good process yeah yeah and for everyone i was playing katie o 'brien former

1:17:16Matt Roberts: former british number one best cv in the draw i would say yeah katherine was responsible for the

1:17:23Catherine Whitaker: draw yeah i know you did stitch that but but but after the we'd done a bit of a medvedev delulu thing we'd convinced ourselves that was a really good draw yeah and i like i did all my prep from the draw venue back to the tennis venue i got on youtube i watched the katie o 'brien against elena dementieva highlights from 2007 in eastbourne you know i'd had i'd had a hit earlier that day and i was you were like oh she's got a slice backhand that not not relevant information to your to your rally it turned out yeah i and like i i did it i did a fine split step and i tried to i tried to be aggressive and i just got the contact all wrong and the return bounced before the net and the umpire said game set match before the ball had even hit the net i mean hang on a second map i think it bounced before the net oh it did yeah okay did it feel still he said game set match before it got to the net.

1:18:24Catherine Whitaker: Did the surf feel particularly heavy? Yes.

1:18:27Matt Roberts: Charlie, it was skiddy. It skidded through.

1:18:30Catherine Whitaker: It had a lot more on it than I was expecting, which is stupid. Like, I'm facing a pro. Like, obviously, their surf is going to have something on it. It's not just going to be a total dolly. I mean, I think I would back myself to return that most times, but the pressure of you knowing that's your only shot, like totally got to me and i uh yeah miss hit it badly he managed not to lose via a a poor call in his opponent's favor though charlie a poor call made by made by you myself yeah yeah yeah so good karma's coming my way this january though it's got to be I'm owed whoever I'm playing can you just call your shot out I might own Greg Allensworth maybe we'll play each other Charlie and then one of us is guaranteed to go through I like that

1:19:31Matt Roberts: I'm not responsible for the draw next time so I can't help you okay that is that's the torture over with Matt and that's it for part two we'll be back in part three to look ahead

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1:20:47Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast. Just before we look ahead to who's playing where this week, an update on the race to Turin, which really is exciting this year. It's in a really, really good place. So Daniel Medvedev has jumped ahead of Flavio Caballi and is up into fifth thanks to his title in Almaty. Artifices' run to the semifinals in Brussels means that he has leapfrogged Francis Tiafoe into seventh place. So Francis Tiafoe was down in eighth. A reminder that ninth place will be the cutoff this year because we know that Yannick Sinner in second place will not be playing.

1:21:31Matt Roberts: So everybody from fifth down to 13th in the race, 13th is currently Tommy Paul. Everybody from 5th down to 13th is playing this week, either in Vienna or Basel. And there are still five spots in Turin up for grabs. Five spots out of eight. This really is exciting. So you've got Zverev Alcaraz and Ben Shelton, who have all qualified. And then from 5th down to 13th, You've got Medvedev, Kabaly, Fis, Tiafoe, Rodar, Dominoor, Djokovic, Fritz and Tommy Paul all playing this week in Vienna or Basel and all with a chance to qualify. So playing in Vienna, we have round ones that include Alexander Zverev against Martin Lander-Luthe, Lorenzo Muzetti against Francis Tiafoe.

1:22:27Matt Roberts: That's not the draw that Tiafoe wanted in terms of his hopes for qualifying for Turin. Flavio Caboli against Grigol Dimitrov. We might call that a good draw these days. Daniel Merida against Daniel Medvedev. Cam Norrie against Francisco Surungelo. Tommy Paul has got Andrei Rublev. Carlos Alcaraz is playing in Vienna. He's got Karin Hashanov in round one. And Alex de Menor also hoping to qualify for Turin. He has Thomas Mahatch, which again, these days we might call a good draw. Also in Vienna, we have Matteo Berrettini, Lerner Tien, Jakub Menchik and Talon Grixpor, the Brussels champion. They're all in the draw.

1:23:11Matt Roberts: And over in Basel, we have obviously the retirement of Stan Borinka incoming. He has drawn Yurila Hetschka in round one. We have Novak Djokovic in the Basel draw. He's got Ugo Mbair in round one and Mbair is a very good indoor player. I think that's tricky. Hubert Hercats has got Zizou Bergz in round one and Artifis has got Giovanni Mpesci Pericard. We also have Taylor Fritz, Ben Shelton, Kasper Rood, Raphael Rodar, Holger Rune and Alex Mickelson all in the draw in Basel. It's giving some real life to this time of the season, isn't it, Charlie, which can sometimes, well, feel in need of revival.

1:23:58Oh, definitely. This can feel like such a dead period and a lot of players don't really have much to play for. This is great. I mean, this is as exciting a race as you can really hope to have. I'll be interested then to see how it translates to the event. I do think it will make for a quite open event. I remember being in Turin last year and I was thinking about this. That was probably the height of the Cine Alcaraz duopoly. You know, it came off the back of, they just played three straight slam finals against each other. They'd split the previous eight slams between them. And even the way it ended that week with, you know, Sinner wins the title, Alcarez gets number one.

1:24:37It felt all so cozy that these two just, you know, tennis just kind of very sportingly would carve up everything for those two. And it shows how quickly things change because at that point it felt like it would be like that forever kind of, you know, Sinner-Alcarez. and to the point we were talking about, are we getting a bit bored of Cine Alcraz playing each other all the time? Now I think what people wouldn't give for one more slam final between them. But I do think this year, whoever gets there, it's going to be quite an interesting, compelling mix. The Djokovic element is great. That's a really nice subplot.

1:25:16The fact that he could equal Federer's tally in Basel of career titles as well is really interesting. but yeah loads going on and the fact that they're all playing you know so it can all change

1:25:29Catherine Whitaker: and also the fact that the type of events we've got over the next two weeks are absolute sweet spot we've obviously got these two 500s one week events bangers only matches from the first day and then Paris is a one week Masters 1000 so that's going to be packed as well like we're in for a really good couple of weeks I think on the ATP side to finish the season.

1:25:54Matt Roberts: I won't ask you both to predict all five of the remaining qualifiers. I think that's a bit cruel. But I am going to ask you both, is Djokovic going to do it? He's currently in 11th. So ninth will get you in. Ninth is currently Hodar on 3 ,159 points. And Djokovic is in 11th on 2 ,840. So that's a gap of about 300 points. Just more than 300 points. Just over, yeah.

1:26:32Predicting Djokovic, I mean, it's just so hard, even for, you know, I do like my predictions. I don't think he will.

1:26:45Catherine Whitaker: I'm going to go. I'm going to go yes just because normally when he puts his mind to something I feel like he does it

1:26:55Matt Roberts: and he really has put his mind to this I mean that is fascinating isn't it Charlie like how much he has decided to want this and go for it yeah even that element of it is interesting that he you know you're kind of curious why is that why do you really want this like you know you've got absolutely nothing to prove I'd love to know I mean is it that he thinks I mean I guess he thinks he can win the event for a start but also just like I don't know being amongst all the players again does that get his does that lift his aura a little bit going into next year and can he sort of lay down a few markers ahead of 2027 really interesting as to yeah exactly why he wants to do it I think he's going to do it I don't know I certainly back at what have we got Tiafoe in 8th I don't I never feel confident in Tiafoe I know this is slightly different sort of more tenacious Tiafoe at the end of this season but Hodar in 9th Diminor in 10th Do you know what I actually think he will as well I can't doubt the guy I want to you know rationally but it is him and he probably will He'll find a way and rip his shirt off and do it in like three and a half hours or something crazy and collapse.

1:28:22Yeah, he probably will. He'll find a way. There's no rhyme or reason with him, but he's sort of superhuman.

1:28:31Matt Roberts: Yeah, I'm up for that. It's a good storyline. The women this week have a 500 in Tokyo. Top seed Rabakina due to play there. She can secure the year-end number one ranking in Tokyo so that she goes into the WTA finals with that in the bag. Leila Fernandes is also going on to Tokyo as well after both of them reach the final in Ningbo this week. Fernandes has got Maria Sakari round one. We've got Naomi Osaka playing this tournament. She's got Jasmine Paulini in round one. Also in the draw there, you've got Maja Kvilinska, Belinda Bencic, Jana Schneider, Alexandra Iala Nikola Bartunkova Elisa Mertens and Sarana Castella now technically I think this could be the retirement of Sarana Castella but that's all gone a bit quiet hasn't it I smell me someone backing out of a retirement and that's absolutely fine but yeah Fines change your mind as I've just done with Djokovic so no judgement we've done this dance it's the danger of announcing you know a year ahead of time you know years a long time we also have a 250 for the WTA in Guangzhou where Darius Sneger is the top seed or was the top seed I suppose she still is but she's not still in the tournament she's already lost to Anna Bondar and also in the draw in Guangzhou is 46 year old Venus Williams who has a wild card and faces nine 19-year-old Lily Taggart in round one?

1:30:09Yeah, speaking of being curious about why people are doing things. Yeah, I won't ask Peter. 18, my God. She's even, yeah.

1:30:20Matt Roberts: I won't ask anybody to try and explain why Venus is doing this. Because she can, I suppose. What a fun match to watch. Yeah. Maybe. Single-handed backhand, just going back to that thread. but yeah very strange last bit of news from this week we have been following with interest the plight of alejandro davidovich fukina and his controversial means of trying to get himself picked for the spanish davis cup team despite being out of favor for a long time with captain David Ferrer. Well, we have today's the day that the final teams, the picks, are announced by the captains for the Davis Cup finals and we can confirm that Alejandro Davidovic Fikina is in.

1:31:11Matt Roberts: He is David Ferrer's fifth and final pick for the Spanish Davis Cup team. I am so pleased about this. Well done David Ferrer for not being too stubborn. to pick Alejandro Davidovic-Vikina. And it very much validates his egginess. And maybe it means we'll get more egginess in the future, which is really all I want. Yeah, and I actually went back and had a look at the history there

1:31:46Catherine Whitaker: because I couldn't quite remember what had gone on between Davidovic-Vikina and Ferreira in the past. But what happened is last year, Davidovic-Vikina pulled out of the last minute of their qualifier against Denmark. And I think Ferrer got quite annoyed about that. Ferrer then picked four players for the finals. And Davidovic Fikina said, well, I don't want to be picked as the fifth. So I'm out. I'm ruling myself out. So this year, he's obviously already named his four David Ferrer. But Alejandro Davidovic Fikina has kind of changed his mind about being picked as the fifth and was very much making a play, as we saw through all his messages on the camera.

1:32:22Catherine Whitaker: And he has now been picked. So I'm pleased that Ferrer has picked the right team here. Like, absolutely, you should have him on your team if you're trying to win the tournament. He's been playing so well. And I'm pleased that Davidovic Fakina has accepted the role of being picked last. Happy to be the fifth, that's fine.

1:32:43Matt Roberts: I'm happy that everybody has swallowed their pride here. Yeah, right.

1:32:48Catherine Whitaker: And honestly, I think it goes back to the ATP finals as well. Like if Jodar ends up playing the ATP finals and plays a lot of matches there, he could be pretty tired going into the finals. He may well end up being the two pick anyway, Davidovic, Fikina, and playing from the start. So, yeah, I'm pleased that they've come to that decision. They have a very strong team, Spain, assuming everyone stays fit.

1:33:10Matt Roberts: Have to be the favourites, don't they, Spain? And having said before, you know, with Svitolina, thinking about delicacy and press conferences and that kind of thing, with this first question just goes straight for the jugular david alejandro what exactly was your beef with one another yeah why do you not like each other just just tell us everything get it and speaking of which like the other team confirmations aren't in yet depending on how online you are you might be pretty intrigued about what the italian team is going to look like we're a highbrow tennis podcast so we're not going to get into the rumors that are circulating online All that I'll tell you for fact is that Lorenzo Mazzetti and Matteo Berrettini don't follow one another on Instagram.

1:33:58Catherine Whitaker: And I think Mazzetti still follows Berrettini, but Berrettini doesn't follow Mazzetti anymore.

1:34:05Matt Roberts: I believe that's a change in status. OK, so we wait with interest for the Italian team nominations and for the others, but with just slightly less interest. And we will keep you posted along the way. We'll be back next week, next Monday, with our next podcast on the main feed to talk all about it. Holly David will be back with a tan, presumably. We have a friend show that we did last week about the Hall of Fame where we were joined by Pam Shriver. It was really, well, though I say so myself, I think it was a really great show, kind of debating eligibility for the Hall of Fame. some people kind of right on the fringes, both in and out, and why players with seemingly comparable CVs, one will be in and one won't be in.

1:34:58Matt Roberts: It was a really interesting show. So that's up now for Friends of the Tennis Podcast. And we have our next Friends show coming next week. It's a Q &A on Wednesday, the 4th of November at 8pm UK time. And then later that week, we're also doing our next episode of Tennis Relived on the history of the tour finals and the David Law Memory Bank is being opened to the public. So very excited for that one. Charlie, it's your favourite bit of the show coming up. It's the mascots. Let's go. I had an awful moment last night where I realised I'd forgotten the name of the cat. The cat that you... Jenny? How could you forget that?

1:35:40Matt Roberts: I had Camilla in my head. Anyway, Jenny. Poor Jenny, ignored by me for all those years and then forgotten by you. Our mascot for this week, Charlie, is Cookie. Cookie is owned by Aria Timms and her grandpa, Mark Forbes, who is a longtime lovely man and supporter of the podcast. And oh my God, this is an incredible dog. Cookie follows in the footsteps of Ted and Alfie, iconic previous mascots. He's a one-year-old chocolate dapple Dachshund belonging to Aria, but shared by Nana and Grandpa. Cookie is a lovely family pet with real attitude. He loves getting into all sorts of fun with Aria and family.

1:36:26Matt Roberts: He loves being the centre of attention and what he lacks in height, he more than makes up for with his zest for life and playing with Aria. He watches tennis with concentration and enjoys listening to the tennis podcast. that is a beautiful dog a dappled dachshund is one of life's joys so thank you Mark for making Cookie our mascot for this week's show anything to say Charlie? No that sounds like they've got a much more healthy relationship than Jenny and I so good luck to them

1:37:02Catherine Whitaker: and Charlie Mark is the kit man at Southampton he's got a very interesting job I think he runs Southampton football apart from the spine of course I think they'd fall apart without him yeah let's not implicate Mark in anything he's the wholesome positive side yes Mark is fantastic and I know he's got a bit of an injury at the moment so he can't play tennis just now so wishing wishing Mark all the best as well as he gets back on court soon

1:37:33Matt Roberts: you and Yannick Sin are both Mark You're in good company. Hello to our mascots, Bodhi, Maisie and Roger. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. We won't put you through shout outs, Charlie, because David would be annoyed to miss out on shout outs. And we need his memory bank, quite frankly. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. Do check out, well, not Charlie's writing because he's still on paternity leave, but the Nadal interview is there and your wonderful colleagues are doing great work. Although every time I go on the athletics tennis page, I end up embroiled in doing sports strands.

1:38:16That's, then it's working.

1:38:18Matt Roberts: Which has been promoted very heavily and I feel like I'm just the absolute target market for that. Oh, a sport related way to waste some time on my phone. Great. Yes, please. Glad it's working. yeah it's absolutely working on me so do check that out thank you so much for joining us today charlie much thank you so much thanks for having me enjoy your two podcast day thank you very much uh we got in there first though so yeah the fresher version yeah yeah post nadal pre-football cliches uh no it's really really great to have you back on the show we've missed you and tennis has missed you. So be good to see you back soon.

1:38:59Catherine Whitaker: We'll see you on the road soon. Very much so. We'll see you soon.

1:39:02Matt Roberts: Matt, thank you as well. David, enjoy your holiday. Thank you all for listening and for watching and we'll speak to you soon.

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