Aus Open Day 11 - Djokovic dream still alive, or is it?

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1:26Matt Roberts: Well, hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast coming to you from Melbourne Park on day 11 of the 2026 Australian Open or the Dud Slam, as we've decided to rename it because the damp squibs just keep on coming. In hindsight, Flavio Caboli's watery shits in the first match of the tournament were potentially an omen. And in the words of Matt Roberts during a particularly low moment earlier on this evening, we used to get washouts that were better than this.

2:02David Law: Because you at least got replays on the big screen. Of classic matches. Yes. The watery shits were our high points.

2:11Matt Roberts: Matt was in such need of a win. a couple of hours ago that he went up to the media reception to make inquiries about whether the winner of the Guess the Number of M &Ms in the Jar competition had been decided.

2:30David Law: Because he's feeling good about his chances.

2:32Catherine Whitaker: We needed a win. And instead I just got looked at like I was some kind of absolute joke.

2:40Matt Roberts: I was like, go and do some work. We are still awaiting the outcome of that competition. So there could be a win around the corner. In fact, there could be many wins around the corner. We could be in for a barnstormer of a climax to this Australian Open. Matt could win the one point slam tomorrow and the M &Ms in a jar competition. He could do the double. It's all still to play for, folks. But there's no hiding from the fact that today was a bit of a bummer.

3:08David Law: yeah and the thing is i i always want to remember that there are some players who've won some matches not all of them but some of them who played exceptionally well and you know and then rebakina for instance fantastic performance um jessica begula brilliant yannick sinner tonight very good okay novat jacovic not your best but you're through anyway but the the bottom line is we've been without any upsets and real drama throughout this tournament. And the payoff to that is that you get all the big names clashing and therefore you get classics at the end of the tournament. What have we got, four days left?

3:51David Law: You know, it's not happened again. And after last night's Coco Gauff, three games she won. You know, we've had a series of blowouts tonight, really, in terms of one-sided matches. and then one that was genuinely looking like it could be gripping or at least a big story is ruined by an injury and it's just such a shame.

4:13Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, four days ago, seven out of eight matches were straight setters in the singles. Three days ago, six out of seven were straight setters and we had a walkover that day. Yesterday, three out of four were straight sets and today, four out of four, including a retirement.

4:32Matt Roberts: Which is where we should start, I think, with Novak Djokovic progressing through to the semifinals here, despite being two sets to love down and, in his own words, on his way home to Lorenzo Mazzetti. 4-6, 3-6. He was 3-1 up in the third set. But how meaningful that is, is, well, not even really up for debate, to be honest. I mean, Novak Djokovic is not shying away from the fact that he was absolutely losing this match before Lorenzo Mazzetti was forced to retire with what he's pretty sure, even before having scans, is a tear to his hip or groin or upper thigh area. It wasn't really close for those two sets.

5:21Matt Roberts: Novak Djokovic was being comprehensively outplayed. And in his words, in what was an on-court interview so bizarre that I found it quite irksome, actually, to see the greatest male player of all time. And look, I don't think anybody did anything wrong in this situation. I think it was well handled by the interviewer, by Novak Djokovic. It was just such an odd situation that you ended up with the greatest male player of all time who's just reached a Grand Slam semi-final doing a comedy routine about how bad he was today and how little chance he stood of winning. You know, he ended the final question with a joke about how crap his overheads were today.

6:07Matt Roberts: It really made me feel very odd. And obviously before that, I'd felt extremely sad for Lorenzo Mazzetti and even sadder when I saw him walk into the press conference room and grab at his groin just to get up onto the platform where the desk is that the players sit at in the press conference room. It was a really upsetting, really, really upsetting scene. I think Novak Djokovic was upset by it even. And we're left with this incredibly bizarre situation where Novak Djokovic, in his last two matches, has won zero sets. I mean, one match didn't take place because he went through via walkover, Jakub Mensik pulling out, and now today he was two sets to love down to Lorenzo Mazzetti.

6:59Matt Roberts: It's an incredibly bizarre situation.

7:02David Law: Yeah, pretty unheard of. I think I remember him having one route through, maybe a little bit like this, several years ago at a US Open, perhaps?

7:13Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, the 2016 US Open. He had a walkover and two retirements en route to the final.

7:19David Law: Yeah, that stood out to me. And that was a weird tournament. Ended up being won by Stan Wawenka. but yeah it's it's simultaneously the best case scenario for him because his 38 year old body has not been put through the ringer and here he is in the semi-finals with a full tank you would assume to be able to go out and take it to Yannick Sinner which he'll need to do but on the other hand he suddenly doesn't appear to have any form at all and he hasn't had any match play really OK, he had a couple of sets today, but he lost them both. He looked good in the first couple of rounds of this tournament, but that's not enough preparation for Yannick Sinner on paper.

8:02David Law: Certainly not ideal, is it? And he seems in a terrible mood, really. I mean, I agree with you. I think he handled it as well as he possibly could on court. I'm glad he sort of joked at his own expense a little bit and the line about the sort of self-awareness about the overheads which people do make fun of him about was good but you know he came into the press conference and I wasn't there but from what you've told me he was irritable and I think he's just look I do think he's sad for Mazzetti and I think he's also feels a bit awkward about it but it's you know it's the sport but he's got to find a way to get himself going again now and it's it's today at least i

8:51Matt Roberts: think that's tough yeah he was incredibly irritable in press he kind of picked a bit of a fight actually um with someone asking a question where which the fact that they didn't state in the question that he had won 24 grand sum titles jokovic took issue with he thought that should have been sort of stated in the question as a mark of respect. And yeah, it looked to me like he was spoiling for a bit of a tete-a-tete. And I get it. I do that sometimes. But it's not always an indicator of a great headspace, right? And I think this is an incredibly awkward situation for Novak Djokovic. I honestly think he's been kind of humiliated out there today by Lorenzo Mazzetti, who himself came into press and said actually he played through the entire second set with this injury it was worsening it didn't suddenly come on at the start of that third set obviously we all suddenly noticed it being very acute but he had played with it worsening throughout the second set that's pretty humiliating for Novak Djokovic given what that match looked like and what that second set looked like and I honestly think look I think there's a lot of things going on in Novak Djokovic's brain and he is the greatest male player of all time he will believe somewhere in there that he has a chance against Yannick Sinner but I also think somewhere in there is the feeling of shit I might get humiliated again you know you don't often get the chance to be humiliated twice in a tennis tournament oh round robin right maybe we should turn the Australian Open into round robin

10:33Catherine Whitaker: Maybe that would make it better somehow. Yeah, look, I mean, it's very hard to describe the degree to which he was being outplayed in those first couple of sets. And, you know, when we thought that Mazzetti was fit, I was very much framing this match as a real moment in Novak Djokovic's career where what's happened suddenly is he's not caught up to Yannick Sinner or Carlos Alcaraz or they've not come back to him, but actually he's come back to the field or the field have caught up to Novak Djokovic. Because, you know, Mazzetti is absolutely one of the contenders to be the third guy. Third is up for grabs and Mazzetti is in that conversation.

11:24Catherine Whitaker: And he was totally outplaying Novak Djokovic in those first couple of sets. He was brilliant, Mazzetti, like so good. doing so much damage with his forehand, serving well, retrieving and putting up these lobs to force Djokovic into those smashes that he joked about, using the slice backhand effectively, like he had it all going on. And Novak Djokovic, by contrast, was error strewn and trying to end points in ways that weren't really on and missing a lot and flat and seemed to just have no real timing or conviction in his shots. And then, of course, we get the very, very sudden retirement. So I imagine Novak Djokovic, given the praise he was heaping on Mazzetti and the pretty defeatist attitude that he had afterwards, thinking that the match had kind of gone, I imagine he was almost processing in real time as that match was happening, OK, maybe there's a chance I can get back into it, but also, wow, this is hitting me hard here.

12:33Catherine Whitaker: I'm heading home, in his own words. And then suddenly to have to flip that and realise that he's going to have to face Yannick Sinner in a couple of days' time is just an unprecedented situation for him. And look, today was day session and it was windy and those are not conditions that generally suit Novak Djokovic. has still been a very, very long time since he actually lost here in the night session. He does tend to play his best tennis under the lights here on the Rod Laver Arena. But he's going to have to up his level by so much in order to not make it a bit, you know, just in order to just get through it in a couple of days' time against Yannick Sinner.

13:24Catherine Whitaker: If he plays like he did today and Yannick Sinner plays like he did today, it will not be close.

13:30Matt Roberts: And it wasn't even Pete Yannick Sinner today. In fact, there was some speculation that he was a bit ill. Maybe we'll come on to him in a moment. He's also got pretty ugly looking blisters, Djokovic, David. I mean, I tried not to look at the screen when they were doing the close up on the blisters because it just wasn't what today needed. but they the split second that i unfortunately was subjected to looked pretty gross made me wince

13:57David Law: um he'd already got wrapping on on his feet and he said it was to protect them um you know some pretty heavy padding there um but he wanted it reapplied he wanted a new a new fresh um application of that understandably if it's if it's sore and they took off the one that was there and it was like oh my god that's gross i mean tennis players feet are gross anyway they give they're battering them in in the way they move about you know but that i was thinking crikey that that must be horrible to move on but he didn't seem overly concerned about it in in in the transcripts he he said look i'm basically probably as healthy as i've been at this stage of a tournament in a long time and and that's just because he hasn't had the physical toll on his body you would imagine but then that isn't solely what's required in order to try and take this guy on.

14:52David Law: I still have, and it might just be nostalgia in my brain, the recollection of what he did in the Olympic final. That was best of three sets, of course, against Carlos Alcaraz. I have what he did here 12 months ago against Alcaraz whilst injured, playing out of his mind and actually overcoming Alcaraz in the quarterfinals before, again, having to pull the plug the next round. So until I see it with my own eyes that he can't do it, and again, I'm always going to believe that he can if he finds the timing, because I've seen him find that timing in so many matches when I've thought he wouldn't. and then when he does, it's eyes bulging out of my head watching what he's capable of doing.

15:44David Law: But that may be the past. That may just be the past now. Most likely it is. But I definitely want to see it again in a couple of days' time because I'd love to think that he could just find it, turn it on push Yannick Sinner, make him do something beyond his standard game even which is a hell of a game in its own right and it wasn't

16:15Catherine Whitaker: that long ago that we were talking about his form being good, you know I know it was against a standard of opposition that is not even close to Sinner's class and I think we've seen enough of their matches now to know that Sinner's ball speed and his movement just means that Djokovic is unable to do some of the things that he can do against the Pedro Martinez you know at this stage in his career but it's not like a completely wild idea to me that he comes out with better form in a couple of days time and also like you know we've been talking about all these sort of lucky escapes that Yannick Sinner has had at various slams in the past and gone on to win them.

16:58Catherine Whitaker: If Djokovic can get in the mindset rather than, oh, I'm going to be humiliated again, but actually, oh, maybe the stars are aligning. Maybe this is my chance. If he can just sort of grab onto something like that and get a bit inspired, then maybe he's got some kind of chance in this. But yeah, it is very, very difficult to see that given what we saw from both of them today in their most recent matches. There's just one moment today from Djokovic I did want to shout out, which was an amazing moment of sportsmanship. He actually ended up losing the game where this happened, making it even more notable, I suppose, where basically everyone thought that he'd won the point and the score was called.

17:46Catherine Whitaker: And Djokovic said, hang on a minute, I touched that ball with my racket rather than it going out. and he conceded the point to Mazzetti. And I don't think anyone in the stadium, umpire included, thought that he had touched the ball with his racket there. And it was a really important moment. It was like the final game of the second set. So, yeah, I just wanted to mention that because that was a genuine moment of real class from Djokovic, I thought, today.

18:17Matt Roberts: On Muzzetti, look, we've seen a lot of sad Lorenzo Muzzetti. We've seen sad Lorenzo Muzzetti clutching a panda after losing the Chengdu final. This was a new level of sad Muzzetti in both walking off court and in the press conference earlier. He said, there's no words to describe how I'm feeling right now, how tough this injury is in this moment. And honestly, I never imagined the feeling of playing like that and being in that position and then having to retire. He said that, you know, although this is a body part that has broken down before and broken down in key matches before, he said they did, he and his team did extensive testing before the start of the season and nothing showed up in terms of weakness there.

19:07Matt Roberts: He wasn't worrying about or trying to protect that part of the body. but he also said I know my body and even though I haven't had a scan or anything I feel pretty sure that this is a tear and tear is a bad word like this could keep him out for a little while and obviously coming up to clay season he's going to have an awful lot of points to defend and for a guy that was looking in pole position to take that number three spot that's up for grabs it's obviously devastating for him I feel so sad for him I feel sad for men's tennis

19:46David Law: yeah I mean it's another yeah it's another blow for the for men's tennis and especially as he's starting to make things happen in his career beyond where he was a year ago he's made advances But that's three of these in a year of similar sort of body part that has broken down. So that's a concern. And, yeah, I mean, I'm afraid, generally speaking, men's tennis is massively predictable right now. No matter how much you search for potential, for jeopardy, for opportunity, Fair play to the top two they just slam the door shut and we'll have another couple of looks at that in a couple of days time

20:39Matt Roberts: Yeah and maybe we'll get a Sincras final for the ages and that's all we'll remember from this tournament and that's all anyone will remember and everything will feel fine and we'll end up having that debate again, right? Is it enough? Is their rivalry enough to sustain men's tennis? Yannick Sinner today, 6 '3", 6 '4", 6 '4", over Ben Shelton, finished a little while ago. Pretty routine, quite honestly. I mean, to use your word, David, predictable, really.

21:16Catherine Whitaker: Well, he's now won 22 sets in a row against Ben Shelton, which is a staggering level of dominance. And look, a lot of those sets have been close. there's been a lot in the past there's been a tie break and you thought okay maybe if Shelton can win that and make it physical and try and impose his advantage that way then maybe it could be a really interesting match but it never happens Sinner always either wins the tie break or gets the crucial break at the crucial point and that's a massive sample size now 22 sets in a row to suggest that this is a pretty serious mismatch and match-up problem and look that's the other side of it right like okay we've got some we've got some really bad injuries to the young players the chasing pack they're also all like constantly trying to improve and I don't really doubt any of their mindsets or intentions in that regard you know Shelton, Mazzetti, Draper, Feast even Runa these are guys who are hungry and are constantly trying to improve the problem is they're also trying to catch up to people who are also improving because Yannick Sinner has Carlos Alcaraz to go up against and he's getting better all the time and Alcaraz has Yannick Sinner to go up against and it just feels like no matter what the others are doing the gap is not closing at all and Sinner rushes Shelton in a way that no one else does there's that quote from Shelton in the past isn't there about when I when I'm playing Yannick Sinner it's like I'm playing on double speed and he just extinguishes any hope that Shelton really has in in the matchups you know in that first set 18 winners four unforced errors I mean pretty unplayable and yes he had a little physical wobble I would say at the end of the second set start of the third where he suddenly looked pretty exhausted and pale and he wasn't He wasn't quite walking right, Sinner.

23:30Catherine Whitaker: But he weathered it and finished the match pretty strongly as well, albeit helped out by a pretty loose game from Shelton to surrender his serve at the end. Yeah, I haven't really got a lot more to say about this one. I feel like Shelton's had a good tournament and has impressed me. but you come out of it feeling ultimately the same about him in terms of his sort of overall place relative to Sinner and Alcarez.

24:03Matt Roberts: And look, it means we've got the top four seeds in the semi-finals. How big is the mix? Because, well, for me, the mix is two. And for anybody that doesn't know, new listeners, whatever, our definition of the mix is players that you would not be surprised to see win the title. We have the top four seeds in the semi-finals and I think the mix is two, which is pretty crazy.

24:33David Law: Yeah, yeah. I mean, at this stage, I would be surprised if either Zverev or Djokovic won it. Yeah, because of the magnitude of their opposition. And I think actually Zverev is playing as well as I've seen him play, really. and it's possible that he might catch Al Kraz out but then the chances of him also getting Sinner most likely if he plays him I think are slim and yeah just on Ben Shelton I was pretty high on him after the first three rounds less so after his win over Kasparud which was a night session match the same as this and something different happens off his racket, I feel, in the Rod Laverina in a night session to how it does in a day session when it's springy.

25:26David Law: That said, still, you know, Sinner and Alcraz have shown the last two nights that they are different when they get to this stage of the tournament. And it's not surprising. They don't even play any lead-up tournaments. They don't even bother. They just play the early rounds and get some sets in. And then by the time they get to the latter stages, you might have a Lorenzo Mazzetti breaking down physically. You might have a Novak Djokovic who's expended some energy. Taylor Fritz who's playing all the time. He's fallen apart physically. And they're just coming into their prime.

26:02Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, they're able to not play warm-up events or play fewer warm-up events later in the year leading into the slams because they're so good they can use the opening few rounds to to settle into the tournament and by doing that it increases the advantage they have over the rest of the field like it's it's it's an absolute dream scenario for both of them and a and a nightmare really for everyone else and i think is a big part of the reason why we're looking on track for a fourth consecutive slam final between them.

26:42Matt Roberts: Certainly feels like it, doesn't it? Only time will tell. Okay, that's it for part one. Join us in part two when we'll talk about the women's damp squibs on day 11.

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28:58Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part two of today's Day 11 Australian Open podcast, where we turn our attention now to the two women's quarterfinals that we had today. Two quarterfinals, one in straight sets by Jessica Bagula over Amanda Anisimova and Elena Rabakina over Igor Sviontek. And those two results mean that for the first time in Matt Roberts' young-ish lifetime. All four of the women's semi-finalists have got to those semi-finals without dropping a set.

29:32Catherine Whitaker: Should I be concerned that I've gone from young to youngish?

29:37Matt Roberts: Well, in the words of my dad on a FaceTime call the other night, you two are really ticking off the decades, aren't you?

29:50Catherine Whitaker: it comes for us all Matt yeah here I am um yeah look it's a it's a pretty remarkable stat um I believe it was the 1995 French Open the last time that happened and it's kind of goes to what David said earlier right like you're you're absolutely desperate to praise these incredible feats you know like Sabalenka in the last couple of rounds has clicked into gear and played brilliant tennis Pagula has been brilliant all tournament quite frankly we're back in a so impressive today in particular I would say and then Alina Svitolina hasn't lost a match all season having won the title in Auckland before the Australian Open started.

30:40Catherine Whitaker: So, like, these four women have been amazing and deserve all the praise. It's just that, what does that say about, like, the bigger picture of the tournament? And I think we're so used to, on the women's side, having so many good matches. And I think we've probably been a bit spoiled by that over the last few slams. And this one has just been extremely notable for as good as those four players have been. They've been head and shoulders above everyone else, really. And we've not had the close matches, the jeopardy that we're looking for and hoping for and expecting up until the semifinals. And hopefully that'll change.

31:25Catherine Whitaker: That's the thing about this tournament. There were so few upsets that there were so many good players still left in that every day you've been able to tell yourself, OK, well, tomorrow will be better. Tomorrow will be better because look at that line-up. And day after day, it just hasn't really got better. But women's semi-final night is so often one of the best nights in tennis. And I don't know if my hopes are high, but I'm going to try and get them high before tomorrow night.

31:55Matt Roberts: The most competitive and intriguing and high-quality set I think played today was probably the second set between Jessica Bagula and Amanda Anisimova. The crowd were really into this. This was the second match of the day on the Rod Laver Arena and the first set had been a mismatch. Anisimova was a bit of a no-show in that opening set. It was very windy conditions and Jessica Bagula just dealt with them so much better than Anisimova. But credit to Anna Samova for getting something together in that second set because she was having a bit of a nightmare and it turned into a match that really felt like it was going three for a while there.

32:39Matt Roberts: And Anna Samova ended up, well, absolutely distraught, quite frankly, in the press conference. It's just been so eclipsed by Lorenzo Mazzetti's level of distraught that, oh, what a day. but yeah, she came into the press conference with a traitor-style hood up. Yeah, it was sad scenes, Matt. You did well to swerve it.

33:02Catherine Whitaker: It was sad. I think there's been stress and tension in her matches right from the start here, quite honestly, that wasn't really there in quite a lot of her grandstand matches in the second half of last year. I would say the only real match this tournament where she sailed through without any distress was the Peyton Stearns one on the really hot day when I just think she just did such a good job of just focusing on on the match and she played really well. but in all of her other matches there have been little alarm bells in terms of her on-court demeanour and how she was letting stuff get to her.

33:46Catherine Whitaker: And so early in this match you could see on her face that she was pretty stressed out. I do want to give full credit to Pagula for the match generally, but especially that first set. I thought it was some of the smartest tennis you can possibly play. She exploited all of Anissimova's little weaknesses, you know, hitting with such depth to constrict Anissimova and kind of force her to overhit and make some errors. She was using the short slice to really target the movement forward. She was going into the forehand. You know, we've seen those videos of Pagula being asked who she thinks has the best backhand on tour and instantly saying Amanda Anissimova.

34:31Catherine Whitaker: Like, she's aware of the game down the other end and she just absolutely executed her game to nullify Anissimov in that first set. It was such a clean set from Pagula. She won basically double the amount of points as Anissimov, 31 to 16. It was an absolute beatdown, really, in that first set. And Anissimov held in the opening game of the second set from breakpoint down and that made it a match. And then in the second set, you had this pattern developing where Nisimova was getting through her service games okay to begin with, but couldn't really break through, couldn't really do some damage. Her return game just wasn't really there for the start of it, but she did eventually get the break.

35:15Catherine Whitaker: But then the opposite happened and her serve fell to pieces and she ended up hitting numerous double faults in that second set, including three in one game. And that handed the break back to Jessica Bagula. it went in to a tie break after Pagula had failed to serve it out but Pagula absolutely ran through that tie break 7-1 playing it very very solidly and consistently and it it did feel like Pagula came back down to earth after that extraordinary first set level and maybe the chances were there for Nisimova but Pagula was still playing really really well and hitting with such authority but without much risk you never thought she was going to miss in a way that anissa mova didn't really have her her a game today there was a lot of a lot of miscued shots off both wings forehand and backhand and she was getting she was getting pretty sort of worked up by it all and i think she knows that that is sort of the last remaining thing really that she does need to still improve you know like the shots have improved the resilience has improved the movement has improved but getting getting stressed by either by her own level or her opponent's own level that maybe she can't do anything about is still something that you do feel like is affecting her in in some matches and i think we've seen that in a lot of her big matches over the last nine months or so But, you know, I think the perspective of 12 months, the fact that she's pretty disappointed to have gone out to Pagula in the quarterfinals of the Australian Open, tells you everything.

36:57Catherine Whitaker: Because she'd have bitten your hand off for that this time last year.

37:02Matt Roberts: It was actually a great line from Pagula in her press conference. She's so often a breath of fresh air, isn't she, in a grown-up in the room, Pagula. and she was asked about the things that she's worked on and whether she's been working particularly hard on anything. She said, I actually don't think I've worked harder. She said, if anything, maybe I've worked less hard, but I've worked smarter and I've really honed in on the specific things that can make me better. And that's so unusual to hear, isn't it? Usually it's a boasting competition about who's working the hardest and I think a lot of players and probably us as well think just because players aren't posting videos of themselves in the gym doesn't mean they're not in the gym.

37:50Matt Roberts: You know, like they're all, they're mostly all working about as hard as you can work. But I thought that was a great line from Paguda. And I thought there was an incredible contrast today because Rabakina and Anisimova are quite similar players in lots of ways. It's a similar kind of ball that comes at you. and Sviantek with the Rabakina flat power into her forehand, she couldn't handle it. It was totally exposing with that big swing on the forehand, whereas the way Pagula handles pace into her forehand and pings it back, she does an even better job of it somehow when she's on the move, on the stretch on the forehand side.

38:33Matt Roberts: It's an incredible skill and a really underrated one.

38:36David Law: Yeah, she can both retaliate with flat power off that stroke, deflect it back, or she can caress it back and soften the power and blunt it. So many times Anissa Merva was having to play four big shots to finish a rally that she would normally finish in one, maybe two. And that's a great testament. I've always thought Pagula is one of the great anticipators on the tour. And she retrieves more balls than the vast majority of players. She just doesn't waste points. And I think you're looking at a matchup problem now. That's 4-0 she's got against Anissa Mova. And I don't think that that is something to overlook.

39:26David Law: I know that the other three were when Anisimova wasn't this version of herself. But that was a... I know Anisimova came back into it, but she had to play lights out to get to a break up in that second set before letting Pagula or Pagula forcing her way back in and winning it on a tie break. For instance, I'm not exactly sure what the play is for Inisimova to get wins against Pagula right now. I'm sure there is one. I'm sure she's capable. She's that good. But she looked stressed when she first came out because of the way Pagula moves and plays and asks questions of her. And just on the subject of Pagula being a grown-up in the way she talks about her own game, same things stood out to me.

40:16David Law: But also the way her coaching teams talk to her, the back and forth they have, at the end of the first set Pegula went over to them whilst Anisimova was off the court having a bit of a going to the bathroom, having a reset, whatever and Mark Merkline said to her look, she's going to come back at you you know that this second set's going to be back and forth he said it's going to go back and forth and you've just got to be okay with that and kind of ride it out and it happened exactly as he said it would but there was just sort of an appreciation of of it not all being up to you and you've got to just play the long game in the in the set really um i think she's playing some of the best tennis i've ever seen her play me too and it'll be elena rabachner in tomorrow's semi-final

41:15Matt Roberts: and Rabakina taking care of Shontek, 7-5, 6-1. This was one-sided for Rabakina. Was that how you read it?

41:28David Law: When she got past the first few games, yeah. Shontek started well. She got an immediate break of serve. And in fact, there were several breaks of serve around there. But once Rabakina had got settled, she was hitting so smoothly and powerfully. and I know that they've got a very different demeanor generally and they've got a different approach to the sport of tennis but Schwantek looked stressed rattled um hurried she was trying to she was still trying to finish things and then missing by the width of a tram line the tram lines you know it was there was there were a couple of really good opportunities that she had where she just blew a shot that you normally expect her to put away and I think that that's because she knew well if I don't put it away that gives her a shot and she's going to put it away um yeah and then the second set was a non-event because Rebecca once she'd put the foot down and got comfortable I mean yeah there was no contest at all then

42:32Catherine Whitaker: and once again a big difference maker between the two was the serve you know like the most devastating shot on the court was Elena Rabatkin as first serve she didn't she didn't land it a huge percentage of the time but when she did get it in she was winning almost all of the points behind it whereas Igor Sviontek we've talked a lot about how her serve has gone up and down in the in the last year or so and she's had really good serving tournaments like Cincinnati or like Wimbledon which really does help her and she's had far less good serving tournaments and less good serving days when she can't rely on it and she can be in trouble and I just think the constant pressure of not having a reliable serve and knowing that you could get broken and also wow she's serving so well that's putting even extra pressure on my service game eventually kind of comes out in the wash and I think ends up with the kind of second set that we had today because I actually thought for the first set Fiontech did quite a good job off the ground I actually thought like she was trying to give herself some time and trying to not rush all the time um but that that went away in the as the match progressed and you know rebeckner was also absolutely incredible in that second set so clean sweeping winners off off both wings and yeah it was it was pretty pretty one-sided to to kind of finish the match um and look i thought sviontek would would probably win this one just because of the general trend in her head-to-head against Rabakina over the last year or so and the fact that maybe it's changed a bit today but I haven't up until now fully trusted Rabakina at slams just considering her record over the last couple of years compared to on tour but for Svantec now she is losing most of her matches now against her biggest rivals.

44:47Catherine Whitaker: She lost her last two against Rabakina, her last two against Pagula, her last two against Nisimova, her last two against Andreeva, her last two against Sabalenka, you know like her last four against Gough like these are her biggest rivals and they've got the edge now in the head-to-head and Svantec still has a remarkable consistency on the tour but when she comes up against these players they're getting the better of her and they're and they're exploiting weaknesses in her game which which have developed and i think she has lost a bit of aura she on take i think players used to go onto the court against fiontech fearing a bit of a thrashing you know and now bakery right and now i think they're actually sensing that if you can if you can keep it close actually you might be able to impose a heavy score on her.

45:43Catherine Whitaker: It's a very, very different dynamic to her matches. But then I was quite encouraged by the way she spoke in the press conference afterwards, Fiontech.

45:52Matt Roberts: There did seem to be a shift, David, from the way Fiontech was speaking in press.

45:57David Law: Yeah, she was much more matter-of-fact and upbeat, generally more energetic. I don't think that's any great surprise. I mean, the last press conference we had at a grand time was the end of the year, and she just had such a lot of tennis over several weeks. I think she's more aware of changes she can now make. I mean, I think the attempt has been, the intention has been to make changes along the way. And she said a year ago, I had sort of a eureka moment with Wim Forsett and the things I was working on happened. This time, they haven't quite. I'm still trying to get there. she didn't completely elaborate on everything but it's it's still about balance i think between this all-out attacking game and not and trying to find that um and the serve and all of these things but she's really keen to get that right and it was put to her well the problem is how do you do that in this crowded schedule that you have in professional tennis and she's talked in the past about how impossible it is with the way the the lengthened 1000 events are how can you do it you've got to play them she would say because they're mandatory well she's had a shift of approach with regard to that now and she said no no I'm you're not allowed to do it in terms of the rules but I'm going to do it because that's what I need to do so I will be missing some 1000 events she didn't say which ones but i think that that's quite important really both for sort of freshness and coming to events feeling up for it like she did this fortnight um but also to give her that chance to work on things yeah and i do wonder you know what the whether hearing things

47:48Matt Roberts: like that will make any impact on on the tours and this 1000 situation i mean probably not well

47:54David Law: The thing is, though, Catherine, at some point, they're going to have so much of the field just not there because this isn't going to go back.

48:03Matt Roberts: And blow back from the tournaments that are paying, the price tag that they're paying for the sanction fees to be the top-tier, tour-level events and what they're guaranteeing their sponsors that are paying all that money to be associated with top-tier, tour-level events. There's all the trickle-down. It is going to start.

48:24David Law: Yeah, I mean, Jack Draper warned us about what would happen, and it had already started to happen. But I think players like Svantec, who kind of, you know, she was doing it anyway, even though she didn't agree with the schedule, she was still playing them. I just think more and more they're going to look at their peers and they're going to say, well, he's not playing, she's not playing. I don't have to play then.

48:49Matt Roberts: she she also was one of the many players that was asked today and was prepared to talk about the issue of player surveillance for content purposes that was obviously shown up by Coco Goff's moment yesterday smashing her racket in the corridor area car park area I think it actually is just outside of the Rod Laver arena which she didn't realize was filmed was filmed she thought she was having a private moment to let off some steam after her defeat it was filmed it was shown live I've seen it being run on the channel 9 news today over and over and over which I know I guess they've got the content is out there they're thinking you know there's nothing to lose by showing it on the other hand you could think maybe just keep your head down a bit but all the players are speaking out on this about how you know as giante described it as feeling like animals in a zoo um pugula described it as really invasive and she pointed out that there have been incidents even before this blow up with um with the coco goff moment there was somebody they were able to zoom in on carlos alcaraz's phone weren't they and look it was harmless what was on there he was looking at yannick's in his instagram story whatever but like in principle that we should all be uncomfortable with that i think and i as as as we discussed last night i really see it from both sides like content is king that is the world that we live in and given what players are putting on given what players are putting on their own content channels to justify the amount of money that broadcasters are paying for rights and it is that money that in quite large part pays prize money so this is part of what pays the players wages in effect in order to give them value they do need this kind of stuff right the old the you know the old-fashioned stuff that they used to get doesn't cut it anymore and they need stuff that's clippable to go on social media and get attention that is just how the world works now but equally I do a lot of this is making me uncomfortable and I don't want players to feel like their privacy is being invaded and there has to be a middle ground I think and it's a strange it's a strange tension here because I always think of this slam as the one that prioritises players above all else.

51:31And it feels like this is a real collision of two very powerful forces,

51:40Matt Roberts: you know, TV and TV money and player power. And it's interesting. I share what you said last night, David. I don't think these sorts of genies go back in bottles. But then equally, the players have been pretty forthright and they do have a lot of power, particularly here.

52:01David Law: Yeah, and the more I've thought about it, the more I think there is a middle ground here, that they can find a solution to this because I don't think that they need to stop cameras being cameras and having them everywhere. But I think that they could provide a second space for them. I think that they need to provide somewhere else that players can meet entourages and go that the cameras don't go. I don't know how big I don't know where but I think that that is necessary somewhere that they can smash a racket in private somewhere that they can go and have a conversation in a way that they don't want to be filmed that should be achievable they have player lounges they should have something that is not too far away from wherever they've got to go with regard to the locker room or the courts just provide somewhere else I think yeah and I could definitely imagine them them doing that given what you said about how they do typically cater to the players so well here

53:00Catherine Whitaker: and I think the fact that so many players have spoken up about this it would be it'd be a tough look to completely ignore it even if they're not going to go back on it altogether it does just strike me that the Australian Open might have slightly reached the point on a lot of things of just going a little bit too far like it's it's remarkable the event that gets put on here but things like this in terms of turning everything into content like great idea that you had and it's just gone a little bit too far and there's now no privacy in terms of getting more and more people through the gates and turning it into a festival again absolutely wonderful but given the issues with the crowds that we've had and people not being able to get on courts and all that kind of thing a lot of personal experiences we've heard from people about what it's like has that just gone a little bit too far you know and that's just the sense i've got from the australian open this year um and i don't know whether as you said whether they go back on these things like they're so pleased with their record numbers like they're going to want to keep breaking those records but there comes a point where you've got to value quality over quantity tweaks can be made i think so and i trust them to make them as much respect as i have for

54:36David Law: craig tyler i do believe he loves a record and by the sounds of it he may not be here in a year so yeah who knows i don't know but um but then equally that almost makes it you know someone

54:48Matt Roberts: else is going to come in and to take the attendance records thing the absolute last thing they're going to want is new regime crowds are down but they're going to be even more motivated than but their win could be we've decided we want to make the experience a little better for those that are coming through the gates i hope so but that is qualitative rather than quantitative and And I fear that, you know, it's harder to boast about qualitative wins.

55:19David Law: Yeah, but the truth is, I think following Craig Tiley as somebody who's a visionary and an entrepreneur, I think is a pretty impossible task in terms of bettering what he's done, because he is an incredible mind, an operator. But I think there are other things that maybe I don't agree with him so much on. I think those qualitative things, and a lot of them I think he has got right, you know, in terms of the way he's treated players and the way they felt welcomed and looked after.

55:51Catherine Whitaker: And we're incredibly well looked after. Absolutely. You know, as the media.

55:54David Law: It's not binary, but at the same time, I do think there are some things I don't, I would have done differently, and we're talking about a couple of them here, and I actually think you could feed off those if you are following him by saying, this is the feedback we had from the players, we're listening. This is the feedback we had from the crowd. We're listening.

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57:41Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast, where Sensation of the Day is here to bring the vibes. Now, there are some contenders. In fact, there are some contenders still on court. Kim Birrell and Talia Gibson, former winners, of course, of 2026 Sensations of the Day. They're still on the Rod Laver Arena in women's doubles quarterfinal action. so look if they win they would certainly get honourable mentions just like Olivia Gadecki and John Pears honourable mention for them they beat Taylor Townsend and Nikola Mektic today 13-11 in the match tie break to reach the mixed doubles final incredible performance from them that's back to back finals for Gadecki and Pears here and just incidentally on Taylor Townsend they're really tough day for her because she and Katarina Siniarkova, the top seeds and defending champions, lost in the women's doubles quarterfinals today to Danilina and Kroonich.

58:42Matt Roberts: Six love final set. That's a real shock. But back to sensation of the day. Gideki and Piers, strong contenders. Potential Kim Birrell and Talia Gibson, strong contenders. But unfortunately, the race was run when I arrived at my desk this morning and found a package waiting on it that had been delivered via post to the Tennis Australian media reception and then delivered to my desk. And it was a beautiful, like beautifully bound book called Wine Dogs of Australia. I kid you not. It's literally just a book full of pictures of dogs making wine. I can't believe it's real.

59:34David Law: It's just beautiful.

59:36Matt Roberts: It's bound like a children's fairy tale book. And it sort of is for me. It's the adult Catherine Mitica version of children's fairy tales. And it was sent to me by the wonderful Meg with a beautiful card as well and just the most gorgeous, thoughtful, lovely thing to do. And it could not have arrived on a more perfect day, Meg. Matt trudged back from the Mazzetti retirement, sat at his desk, heaved a big sigh and just leaned over and grabbed the book and started flicking through it. It's an absolute joy and just the loveliest thing. And Meg is our sensation of the day. Are we all happy with that?

1:00:22Catherine Whitaker: Absolutely. We needed that book.

1:00:24Matt Roberts: yeah we needed that book thank you Meg so lovely so nice um just while we're on the doubles quickly Gabby Dabrowski and Louisa Stefani David uh they beat Shane Ostapenko 6176 you were out there

1:00:39David Law: watching oh it's amazing it's amazing I mean listen um should we should remind that uh Dabrowski and Stefani have kind of become the team of the tennis podcast this year um because of suddenly my fandom of Luisa Stefani and Mats of Dabrowski and they've teamed up this year and I mean what a team they look as well, I mean they were leading this match, I was watching the whole thing on my laptop whilst in the Rod Laver arena watching, I can't remember which one I was on at the time

1:01:13Catherine Whitaker: it was the Anisimova one wasn't it?

1:01:15David Law: yes that's right

1:01:16Catherine Whitaker: I should probably say the Pagula one

1:01:18David Law: that's right and Dabrowski and Stefani were 6-1 three love up against last year's runners-up, Ostapenko and Shea. And I mean, look, they are a more classical athletic doubles team from yesteryear because they're all over the net. They're attacking the net on nothing balls. There's no attempt to play the perfect approach shot. It's get in, trust your volleys, knock them off. We're at the net, you're not. whereas Ostopenko and Shea would serve and stay back, both of them, right on the baseline and kind of trust their ability from the baseline. And the thing is, at 6-1-3, love, that wasn't working at all.

1:02:04David Law: The Brazilian-Canadian duo just... It was like they had got sixth sense already and they were just knocking off the volleys. I thought this was going to be over in 10 minutes. To be honest, I didn't speak to them afterwards, but I got the sense maybe Stefani and Dabrowski were just relaxing a little bit. And then suddenly Shea and Ostapenko just exploded into action. Ostapenko was hitting the most ferocious ground strokes at the volleyers of the net, and Shea lifted two perfect topspin lobs over their heads. They're a very unusual-looking combination in terms of style, but it makes them quite formidable.

1:02:48David Law: and they fought all the way back, got it to the tie-break and eventually Dabrowski and Stefani won the tie-break. But the nice thing is that was the best set of tennis I think I've seen in the tournament in terms of just the crowd being really into it. I mean, maybe Lernotien against Zverev was a really good second set. That one went to a tie-break. But I don't know, the women's doubles particularly, I find the men's doubles more difficult to get into because it tends to be a lot more serve dominated. But this was special and now they're into the semifinals and they face the conquerors of the top seeds and defending champions.

1:03:27David Law: So that's going to be very interesting to follow.

1:03:31Matt Roberts: In the wheelchair events today, it was first round action in the wheelchair events and all of the big names and top seeds have regressed through pretty comfortably. Alfie Hewitt, Kito Oda Sam Schroeder Niels Vink in the quad events, Yui Kimmiji Anique Van Coot and Dede De Root the unseeded Dede De Root and that means that she now faces the second seed, Anique Van Coot in the second round which is a real test of where De Root is at because she She hasn't quite been the same since that hip surgery she had after the Paris Olympics didn't play the Australian Open last year and hasn't been past a Grand Slam singles quarterfinal since the surgery.

1:04:21Matt Roberts: She's had an off-season and this is her big comeback, it feels like. But we'll find out a lot when she takes on Van Coutts. So the wheelchair rents is a big part of tomorrow's order of play. Of course, in terms of the singles action, it is all night session tomorrow. So the Rod Laver Arena kicks off in the day session with some legends. Then you've got men's doubles semifinal action. You've got Jason Kubler and Mark Polmans taking on Luke Johnson. Is it L. Johnson? Yep. Luke Johnson took a big swing there, paid off. I think that was a flat out guess for me. I needn't have confessed to that. There we go.

1:05:05Matt Roberts: Luke Johnson and Jan Zielinski. That's a men's doubles semifinal. Then we have a women's doubles semifinal between Danilina and Kroenich and Dabrowski and Stefani. And then night session not before or from 7.30, Sabalenka Svitolina is first. And then it's Jessica Bagula against Elena Rabatkinad. The second court tomorrow starts with Alfie Hewitt against Gordon Reid, top seed Hewitt, against his doubles partner, his long-time doubles partner, Gordon Reid, of course. Then it's some legends doubles, Mollick and Stozer against Kerber and Petkovic. Then it's men's doubles, semifinals, Granoja Zabajos against Neil Skubski and Christian Harrison.

1:05:49Matt Roberts: And then in the night session, or rather the kind of twilight session on the second court, women's doubles, semifinals, action, Mertens and Zhang against the winners of the match currently on court, Shiba Haran's Von Areva are a set up on Kim Birrell and Talia Gibson. Kia Arena tomorrow is wheelchair event central. Sam Schroeder in action first. Then it's that match between De Gote and Van Cout. And then you've got Takito Oda third on. And then you've got some quad wheelchair doubles and some men's wheelchair doubles. And that final match of the day, the men's wheelchair doubles, is Hewitt and Reid against Fernandes and Oda.

1:06:30Matt Roberts: So that's good. And then you've got lots of juniors, lots going on around the grounds tomorrow. You've got wheelchair action over on court number five as well. So do check that out if you are coming tomorrow and on court seven, in fact. So lots going on, including at 11 a.m. the media one point slam. Unfortunately, not open to the public. That was a question that Matt asked at the same time as asking about the M &M competition.

1:07:00David Law: Are we included in public, Catherine, or are we allowed to go? I'm hoping our accreditations will allow us to be there in a support capacity.

1:07:11Matt Roberts: I'm hoping so. I've bought permanent markers for this, David. I've planned a sign. There's very sophisticated in-jokes on there.

1:07:22Catherine Whitaker: It's a great sign.

1:07:23Matt Roberts: It's going to be great. How are you feeling, Matt?

1:07:27Catherine Whitaker: Terrible. I've got a real dilemma in the morning because the Team Athletic have arranged a 9am hit, which they've invited me to.

1:07:42David Law: 9am?

1:07:43Catherine Whitaker: But that means less sleep. So do I need the practice more or the sleep more is the question. Well, you know what I'm going to say. And I think I need the sleep more. You know, I've played a couple of times this week. You have played. I've got to trust my game.

1:08:00Matt Roberts: Yeah.

1:08:01Catherine Whitaker: I'm playing on the wrong surface. I've been playing on Astro, and we'll be playing on a hard court tomorrow. But I think I need to prioritise the sleep.

1:08:10Matt Roberts: I think the game's there, Matt. And look, I'm very close to doing

1:08:15Catherine Whitaker: an Alejandro Davidovich for Kino and putting out a statement about an 11am start, given we always work the night session. I'm feeling at a disadvantage. Sounds like you just put one out. we're going to do our best. I've bought my shorts.

1:08:32Matt Roberts: Yeah. He's got, he's got shorts. He's got the paraphernalia.

1:08:37Catherine Whitaker: The whole thing is making me anxious. I like to know, I like to have the information about what's coming. I don't have nearly enough details about this event. I've only just learned where it is. I don't know how many are in it. We don't know what the draw is. We don't know who's going to be there. We can't do a workflow. I haven't got a workflow. Like, it's really putting me on edge. It's more my kind of thing. And I've been ramping up the pressure. Catherine's bought wristbands. I'm going to re-grip my racket I've bought shorts there's going to be a sign

1:09:03Matt Roberts: I bought him Matt needed a new

1:09:05Catherine Whitaker: I'm basically going to play probably going to play one point shank a forehand and we're all going to go home Matt if I'm coming you get a pep talk

1:09:15David Law: that's true

1:09:16Matt Roberts: and we get to see David Heck all the opposition

1:09:18David Law: that's the bit I'm most excited about we don't know how allowed that is yet but I don't care if it's allowed or not

1:09:26Catherine Whitaker: I haven't seen any published rules we will deal with the consequences of the heckling.

1:09:30David Law: Imagine if you got disqualified from the one-point slam for your mate on the sidelines.

1:09:34Matt Roberts: The other thing is we can kind of, Team Athletic are all playing, aren't they? So we can believe so.

1:09:39Catherine Whitaker: We've just seen them go off into the night. Right, to get their beauty sleep. They're going to be tucked up in bed soon.

1:09:43David Law: They've gone for an early night.

1:09:45Matt Roberts: I think your game is there, Matt. Okay, thank you. What's most important is that you're mentally fresh.

1:09:50Catherine Whitaker: Right, yeah, agreed.

1:09:51Matt Roberts: Because I think, I'm sensing that your main issue here is the mental side of things.

1:09:58David Law: Your biggest opponent is yourself.

1:10:00Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I agree. Yeah. I agree. And potentially player Henley.

1:10:05David Law: Hopefully you're on the opposite side and somebody else takes her out. She's so good. Maybe she'll do a double false.

1:10:12Matt Roberts: You're good. It's going to be great. I'm looking forward to it. Imagine if he won it. Oh, I have been imagining it. We don't even know what the prize is. We need this, David. We haven't won the MNM competition. We don't know what the prize is. Well, until... I suspect nothing. Until told otherwise, I'm assuming it's a million dollars.

1:10:31David Law: I mean, we would have assumed so, wouldn't you? Yeah. Why would it not be?

1:10:36Matt Roberts: Exactly. Do head to our Instagram for One Point Slam updates, because that's why I'm going. And to support you, Matt. As I've said in this pod, content is king. So please give us a follow and make it all worthwhile. It's quite funny, isn't it?

1:10:53David Law: They've found somewhere they can close off to the public.

1:10:59Catherine Whitaker: Oh, God, yeah. Am I going to be on camera? Am I going to be streamed on AO Blue Zone? Your racket smash. Oh, my God.

1:11:09Matt Roberts: I cannot wait. I really cannot wait. It's going to be great. Folks, lovely Gus is looking at me with her tongue out, with her paw propped open. I've seen so many beautiful wine dogs today. They're my new absolute favourite. And Gus is right up there. Thank you, Gus. And thank you, Renee, for continuing to send the wonderful content. Thank you and hello to Bodie, Maisie and Roger. I remain on zero points. That's Bodie's debut in the predictions.

1:11:44Catherine Whitaker: And you're now starting to curse people.

1:11:46Matt Roberts: Yeah, that's starting to be considered as a factor because I had Mazzetti today. We ride again, Bodie. We ride again. Hello to Chris, Greg and Jeff, our top folks and executive producers. Matt, let's have some shout outs.

1:12:03Catherine Whitaker: We have Eliza Nyset from Atlanta, Georgia. Hi, Eliza. Eliza says, I've loved tennis my whole life, but I didn't start watching it regularly until I graduated college. I went to the US Open last year and got to see Vondrosheva Rabatkinner, which was amazing.

1:12:26Matt Roberts: Do you remember what amazing tennis matches were like?

1:12:29David Law: Can't say I do, really.

1:12:31Catherine Whitaker: Eliza says, I'm really glad I have this podcast and the barge, because otherwise my friends would have to hear me talk about tennis even more than they already do. She's on the barge, I love it.

1:12:44Matt Roberts: I've put Eliza into the WTA website, and they've given me Eliza Panda from the US. They've given me Eliza Rocha from Brazil, and they've given me Eliza Rustandar from Indonesia. Cool. So there we go. Thank you, Eliza.

1:13:04Catherine Whitaker: We also have Brendan Raymond Yakubian. Hello, Brendan. Hi, Brendan. Who's from Alaska. Wow. And this is a surprise shout out from his wife, Julie. Oh, I love a surprise shout out. Well done, Julie. Julie says Brendan loves to listen to the pod on long drives into Anchorage with about a million pauses for discussion and debate or around the fire pit in the backyard or while camping.

1:13:36Matt Roberts: I can't hear fire pit without thinking about the traitors.

1:13:41Catherine Whitaker: Or Love Island. Or Love Island.

1:13:43David Law: Brendan Evans, the American tennis player who was a big next big thing type and didn't really happen. But he got loads of sponsorship deals for a while.

1:13:55Matt Roberts: Was he a new Balls Please guy?

1:13:57David Law: No, he didn't get on that. He wasn't that good.

1:14:03Matt Roberts: Brendan and Julie, because that's a lovely thing for Julie to do. Thank you ever so much. That's really great. I hope you feel surprised.

1:14:10Catherine Whitaker: And finally we have Seagal Shaharabani

1:14:15Matt Roberts: Hello Seagal Hi Seagal

1:14:17Catherine Whitaker: Who is in Israel And Seagal says Ilanit Fridman Who played wheelchair tennis In the Beijing Paralympics Was my neighbour when we were growing up Oh that's so cool That is incredibly cool

1:14:32Matt Roberts: They have Guy Sasson As well don't they Israeli wheelchair tennis player Playing here I think Seagal thank you very much indeed thank you to Seagal, Brendan Julie and Eliza thank you all for being friends of the Tennis Podcast if you'd like to become a friend then the link is in our show notes we are part of the Athletic Podcast Network we're not going to promise great tennis we've been burned one too many times but we'll promise that we'll be back to hopefully bring you great entertainment no matter what the quality of the tennis. Thank you for listening. We'll speak to you tomorrow.

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