Aus Open Day 13 - Djokovic vs Alcaraz, for history

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1:16Matt Roberts: Well hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast coming to you from Garden Square at 2.20 in the morning after a day that has delivered all the drama that we've been desperately craving for the last 12 days and more, quite frankly. It turns out it was coming. It was just all coming on one bonkers day. First of all, a Shakespearean five-hour, 27-minute semifinal between Carlos Alcaraz and Alexander Zverev, the longest in Australian Open history, won by, to quote Daniel Medvedev, the famous Carlos Alcaraz, followed impossibly this evening by 38-year-old Novak Djokovic defying gravity to take out the two-time defending champion Yannick Sinner in five exhilarating sets, the sum of which is a men's singles final on Sunday, which is as narratively delicious as you can imagine.

2:23Matt Roberts: 22-year-old Carlos Alcaraz aiming to become the youngest ever man to complete the career Grand Slam against Novak Djokovic, shooting for the outright Grand Slam record of 25 and to be the oldest major champion in the Open era. So in total, nine hours, 36 minutes of breathless entertainment. Our 12 day long debt has been collected. I feel alive. I feel ruined. I feel like I need a group therapy session. So enter, as always, Matt Roberts, David Law and joining us tonight to help process the madness, the Athletics' Charlie Eccleshare. David your memory goes back the furthest have you ever experienced a single day quite like that

3:18David Law: Charlie and I were just talking about this trying to remember if we could remember a semi-finals day like this because I think we've had incredible days full of five set drama but certainly off the top of my head I can't remember a semi-finals day with as many ups and downs and as many significant results, conclusions, consequences, which we're now left with. The fact that we're now left with a final between one guy trying for a 25th major singles title, a number that nobody's ever reached, man or woman, in history, and the other fella is trying to become the youngest ever to complete the career Grand Slam.

4:07David Law: I mean, that doesn't get any better, really, on paper. And all I would say is, well, we told you. We told you the drama was coming, and here we are.

4:16Matt Roberts: Charlie, how many versions of each of your articles do you think you wrote today? So I was covering the first semifinal, Alkrazverev. I must have written, like, a good few thousand words, maybe up to about 5 ,000 words, many of which never saw the light of day because they were totally irrelevant. I mean, the first draft was kind of, and this seems about three weeks ago, but was kind of, oh, isn't, I mean, how ludicrous this sounds now, just given what order came, but it was all about how Alcraz didn't play his A game, but he kind of was by his standards winning ugly against Vero of those first couple of sets, you know, it's kind of like, because he'll just motor through the third, and this will kind of take care of itself quite nicely, you know, we'll be back in the media centre in no time.

5:02And then obviously it became the Alcraz pulling out injured, because that seemed like a distinct possibility. And obviously we had to have that kind of ready because that can happen so suddenly, as happened only a couple of days earlier with Mazzetti against Djokovic. And then obviously the match just went in so many different directions. And then, yeah, obviously eventually Al Graz and I got over the line.

5:26Matt Roberts: And if you told me after that match that that wouldn't be our headline match, headline story of the day, Like, we were just discussing this. I would have assumed that Novak Djokovic had retired in his press conference or something. Like, I couldn't really have imagined a scenario where the second match, after those five hours and 27 minutes, ended up feeling like the lead story. And yet, I think that is the case. Matt, are you OK? I've been worried about you for several hours. I've been worried about me too. I had a wretched headache at the end of Alkarez Zverev. But people bounced back and, God, I enjoyed those final couple of sets of Djokovic Sinner and the drama of it.

6:15And I think that's the most people that have ever still been in a tennis stadium at 1.30 in the morning pushing two. Like, it was packed. It was atmospheric. Eric. It was, as you said, what we've been waiting for. I feel okay because I'm like, tennis is good. After all these days, like I told you, tennis is good. That is why we do this. That is why we love it. The people who've really won here are like the tennis casuals who tune in for Grand Slams for the last few days. They'll be thinking like, yeah, this has been a great tournament. This is amazing. Every match I've watched so far has been incredible.

6:50Matt Roberts: They weren't there for the Lorenzo Mazzetti trauma, but Novak Djokovic was. Right, 3-6, 6-3, 4-6, 6-4, 6-4, in a mere four hours and nine minutes tonight for Novak Djokovic. If I sound a bit mealy-mouthed, it's because obviously I'm eating my words right now from last night, from the night before, from a lot of the podcasts that we've recorded this tournament. I was not expecting clearly what we saw from Novak Djokovic tonight I was expecting this match to look like what we saw in the first set that first set played out how I expected Yannick Sinner wasn't at peak I don't think he was against Ben Shelton in the previous round either but that was okay he didn't need to be I don't quite have the words for what ended up coming after that first set But perhaps you do, David, because you saw it coming, or at least you saw the possibility of it coming.

7:53David Law: Yes, I thought it felt implausible 24 hours ago, but possible. Based on, well, who we're talking about, really. This guy has won 10 of these titles, and he's won 24 overall. But it's not just that, it's the manner in which he's done it, and it's the manner of the type of performances I've seen, even in the last 18 months, where it's very occasional, but he can still find that ridiculous level. To quote Grigor Dimitrov at the start of this tournament in Tennis Podcast Meets, that flow state that he found when he was facing Sinner and Two Zets of Love up at Wimbledon. I've seen it in the final of the Olympics, and I've seen it here last year against Al Kraz both times.

8:42David Law: And if you can produce it against that guy, who's so much younger than you and so incredible, and you can actually outplay him the way that Djokovic was in his 36th, 37th, 38th years, to me it didn't seem impossible that he might find that level again. The only thing is we hadn't seen him find that level against Yannick Sinner in years. And we were up to five match wins in a row for Sinner, who was going for a record six. Nobody's ever beaten Djokovic six times in a row. And the manner of his game against Djokovic just seemed to handcuff Djokovic. He was doing to Djokovic what Djokovic had been doing to everybody else for two decades.

9:24David Law: But I just always thought, and I thought we saw snapshots of it in the French Open, which he lost in straight sets, but there were moments when the ball came off the Djokovic racket and troubled Sinner. Not enough of them. and I just wondered I wondered whether here we might feel that and look it wasn't going that way but suddenly in that in that fourth set and then particularly in the fifth and this wasn't the best sinner I don't think I think you summed that up well Catherine I don't think we've seen the best sinner but it was still a bloody good sinner who was going for it but Djokovic found absolute peak form in those last two sets and he showed why he's dominated Nadal and Federer in those rivalries.

10:11David Law: He has a purity off his strings and a movement that ended up putting him on the baseline and Sinner scrambling around the back behind him, wailing away with power but not having much impact because Djokovic was timing everything. He was numb almost, Djokovic, the way he was playing tonight. Yeah, David said last night, I'll believe he can until he can't, which was a wonderful turn of phrase about Novak Djokovic. I thought we'd seen that he can't. You know, over the last few months, I had taken those matches that he's had against Alcaraz and against Sinner to mean that this is just not going to be possible for him anymore.

10:59anymore and you know with the slight caveat that under the lights in Australia has always been the time where he's played his absolute best tennis and it's still an absolute age since he actually lost a night session match here it's crazy these conditions and and and the sting on his shots like when he when he gets going is still there but you know David talks about 18 months ago 12 months ago like to me that's such a long time when you're this late into your 30s like that's that's it's a bigger difference when you're that old than when you're in your mid-20s right like to me just so much time had passed that I didn't think he'd be able to pull this off in this way I even with the help he'd had with the draw with the withdrawal and then only having to play two sets against Mazzetti I still thought there might be some physical issues that he would run into and look, I did think he was struggling a bit physically, but he came on so strong down the stretch.

12:03But what I didn't expect above all was the way he was dictating the game to Yannick Sinner, the way he was pulling the trigger down the line first in the rallies and the way he was playing the match on his terms. And I just didn't think he'd be able to do that against Sinner's movement and Sinner's weight of shot. And there were so many vintage Djokovic moments there, a hold from Love 40 down in that final set, roars and picking out people in the crowd and getting them on side. It was all the stuff that has just made him the greatest male player of all time. And this might be one of his best, well, it is definitely one of his best ever wins.

12:50It's staggering. I actually think, yeah, it was both vintage, but also new. New, yeah. I can rarely remember him playing so aggressively. Those forehand winners down the line, he was like 20 plus forehand winners, and so many of them just flew down the line. The thing I've always loved most about Djokovic is the way he would raise his level when he played Nadal or someone like that. But he so often didn't have to play his best level because he could play fairly mediocre by his standards, and it would be enough to beat everyone. I think what we saw tonight was Sina took him to a higher plane. he had to go somewhere that he'd sort of never gotten in terms of the aggression because he couldn't he just he couldn't make that a match where it was about like I'm just gonna you know get everything back like that just wouldn't have worked tonight against Sinner he went for shots in a way I can barely remember and I still can't believe he's won to the point where I wonder if Will you know look back on this as being a particularly bad Sinner performance or something like Sinner wasn't at his best and he he looked kind of out of sorts afterwards I thought but But from the Djokovic side, just unbelievable.

13:58Matt Roberts: Do you think Sinner was shocked by it, by that, the way that Djokovic played that you've all just described? I mean, he was pretty much asked that in press just now. We've just come from that press conference. It's a tricky one for him, isn't it? Because if you say, yeah, we're surprised. Yeah, I thought he'd be shit, to be honest. Everyone's afraid of disrespecting 24-time grand slam champion Novak Djokovic in press conferences right now. so I get how that's tricky for him but I do still wonder if he was pretty shocked by obviously by the level but by the approach that he came out with tonight pulling those triggers down the lines and being the one in charge he made Yannick Sinner a passenger from the baseline tonight I think if not surprised I think it hurt him like the way he was in the press conference just now compared to after the French Open final, which was pretty much the biggest devastation a player can suffer.

14:56To me, he seemed, I don't know if he was more upset, he seemed more angry tonight with himself in a way of like, I've let myself down, in a way that I think he didn't so much after the Ron Garos final. But I think that's partly because him and Alcaraz, they are this little club and they kind of elevate each other. And, you know, everyone came out of that French Open final almost saying it was kind of arbitrary who won. You know, they both just put on this show, this exhibition, whereas tonight was all about Novak Djokovic. And I think Sinner will feel really disappointed in himself. And, yeah, a bit surprised by Djokovic's level, but also hurt by it.

15:33And probably a bit embarrassed that he got pummeled and outmuscled and outpowered by a 38-year-old who, two days ago, Lorenzo Mazzetti was rag-dolling in a day session.

15:44David Law: the more similar press conference to tonight was the US Open one where he was talking about wanting to incorporate new variety and play like Carlos because he was frustrated in that way tonight he was frustrated about missed opportunities kept talking about the missed break points that he had and I take that point and he obviously was up a first set as well and he was serving out lights out in that first set but I do think it shook him to his boots in sets four and five to to be treated like that because it's not like he was taking a back step himself he was going for it he was swinging but the other guy was hitting the cleaner ball and as you said Matt he was pulling the trigger down the line instantly Djokovic that's that's the Djokovic that Nadal couldn't cope with in a long spell.

16:35David Law: Nobody hits the ball down the line better than Novak Djokovic. I think Sinner has actually become the next guy who's done that, but actually Djokovic got the better of him in that regard tonight. And it is the first time, like you say, that we've seen Sinner kind of feel the Djokovic effect like that. Look, I know he's lost to him before, but it was more in the period of his career where he was really developing Sinner, and you would expect him to take losses to Novak Djokovic. But this was Djokovic imposing himself on Sinner in a way that he has done a couple of times to Alcaraz. Obviously, the Olympics final stands out.

17:12The quarterfinal here last year stands out. Even the Cincinnati final stands out. These have been big moments in Alcaraz's career where he's had to confront the greatness of Novak Djokovic. Sinner has played Djokovic a lot, but he's felt really superior to him in the matchup in the last year or so. And I do think, therefore, that it rocked him, like we've all said. And I think he lost his way in the match. And I think when he then did have the chances, he didn't quite have the conviction in his game that he needed to take those chances. And Djokovic stepped up on a lot of the breakpoints. There was a backhand winner down the line, followed by a forehand winner down the line on a couple of them.

17:58And good serving. Djokovic is spot serving tonight. I mean, outrageously good. He is like a grandmaster, Djokovic, who has conquered all elements of the sport. and he can just pull on those strings, whether it be tactical mastery or coming up top in big moments or knowing how to navigate five steps. He's done it all. And tonight, under those conditions, he managed to bring it all together in a way that was just remarkable. I still can't fully process what we witnessed. A Serbian journalist asked me to hold his laptop at the end so they didn't get up on match point and it fly everywhere.

18:45David Law: Like, that was the sort of scenes that were around us in the press seats. What was he going through when, despite having outplayed Sinner for two sets to wrestle control and get the big chance, he fluffed his lines in the penultimate? Oh, God, we haven't even talked about that. Oh, my God. Because that was, I mean, we could be sitting here having a very different conversation right now. Thank goodness for bringing that up, David. Match point. He's put down the perfect serve, Djokovic. He has the most straightforward mid-court ball to put away, and he hit it straight back to Sinner, who did a brilliant job of manipulating the ball back to him at his feet and actually ended up wrestling the point away.

19:30David Law: I can't tell you how straightforward that point was to win for a player of Novak Djokovic's ability. It was over. People were standing up. They'd taken the photo of the moment. How he didn't put that ball away, and great from Sinner to anticipate it, I suppose. But we talk about the elements of Noah Djokovic that were new today. The point after was a vintage Djokovic moment. Having blown that point, he then just finds a perfect first serve and sort of kills Sinner's moment there and suddenly he's got another match point. Incredible points. Do you remember that in 2016? So it would be almost exactly 10 years ago.

20:12He played Federer in the semifinal. Federer won. I always think of this, Charles. Yeah, that ridiculous point that Federer won. And then Djokovic just... He didn't win another point in the match. Yeah, he won that game and then that was it. I mean, it was just like... And I remember... And everyone went wild when Federer won that point. And he was just like, yeah, so what? I'm going to win the next one and then the match. But yeah, two out of 18 break points for Sinner. That's what is going to kill him. I mean, he will have so many regrets about that.

20:40Matt Roberts: That's why he was furious. I mean, for all the reasons you've said, lost to a 38-year-old, didn't play his best, but it's the missed chances, isn't it? Yeah, that's the thing. And like, you know, every player has those days from time to time. Federer had a few. He had one here against Sitza Pass. But yeah, I think that those are just so hard to take because he knows, he knows he had the chances. Can we have a moment for the mustard and the ketchup? the two men who I think just sort of embodied the lunacy of today and the rollercoaster. What a rollercoaster they had.

21:16David Law: They went on a similar journey to Novak Djokovic in the match, in a way, because they were positioned... Now, just to set the scene, I mean, the ketchup and the tomato and the mustard bottle, what does that mean? Well, the two people decided to come to the Australian Open semifinals dressed as a mustard bottle and a ketchup bottle. They were incredible fancy dress outfits. And they were really bang on. And my word, were they noisy. And they were shouting for Djokovic. And they were saying, we want ace from him when he was about to serve. But the thing is, they were on three rows from the back of the entire stadium in a 15 ,000-seat stadium.

21:58David Law: These are, by the way, machines going past to clean the gangways. and we've got people tidying up rubbish all around.

22:05Matt Roberts: It's a big post-apocalyptic vibe about the scene around us.

22:09David Law: They're getting the place ready for the women's final tomorrow. And this went on for some hours and suddenly there was a huge number of seats around them that were empty from people who either didn't want to have to look over the top of the ketchup bottle or didn't want to hear these blokes shouting at the top of their voice in the direction of Novak Djokovic. About seven games from the end, Catherine looked back to see where they were, and they'd gone.

22:34Matt Roberts: Well, no, hang on. There was a chapter in the story before that where they were spoken to by security.

22:39David Law: Yeah, they almost got ejected. They just about managed to stay in. And then we suddenly realised they'd gone from nearly being ejected to being on the back row to suddenly being on the front row, right next to Novak Djokovic. So they'd got promoted. They had quite the day. We want ace. Was that what they were saying?

22:59Matt Roberts: I thought it was we want eggs. I thought it was an eight or something. I just couldn't work it out. I just assumed it must be food-related. Like, there has to be a reason why they're dressed as a mustard and a ketchup.

23:09David Law: There was a moment where they chanted, we want ace, Djokovic hits an ace, and they just went, thank you!

23:15Matt Roberts: Yeah, one of them did a twirl after that. It was, yeah, I mean, totally surreal. And actually, surreal is one of the words that Djokovic used in his on-court interview afterwards, didn't he? along with the words I just hope I have enough gas for Sunday which was slightly ominous and also when asked about what it would mean to him to win on Sunday he said honestly it feels like winning tonight

23:44David Law: I think that's fair enough of course but he does have to

23:50Matt Roberts: how on earth do you pick yourself up from this to summit another mountain

23:56David Law: Well, if anybody can, that bloke can.

23:59Matt Roberts: And we'll come on to this, but Carlos Alcaraz is in the same boat. And look, I kind of have a theory today that like, you know, how this tournament generally has had the feel of dud after dud after dud. I do think these things catch. And I do think if Carlos Alcaraz converts that two sets to love lead and wins it in straight sets and gets the job done quickly. Like, I don't know. Maybe I'm totally out of my mind, but I think... We'd have been asleep for about four hours already in this parallel universe. No, I think the Djokovic upset becomes less likely. That's what I mean, yeah, because then Sinner wins in straight sets as well and we're out of it.

24:41Yeah, I just think, like, these things catch, and I think Djokovic is, you know, he's watching that first semi-final. He's getting a taste for it. He's thinking, hang on a minute. If I can bring it now... These guys aren't so inventive. I've got to play either cramping Carlos Alcaraz or Zverev, who I back myself to be. That's kind of the situation. And so he gave that line in the on-court interview, didn't he, where he said something like, I just want to be there physically with him, go toe-to-toe with him, and then let's let the gods decide who wins. And I saw that was like a really ominous line from Novak Djokovic.

25:19And that's the play, isn't it? He's got to make it a match. He's got to get into it in a way that he got into this one. There's definitely a world where he gets blown away, I think, even after what we've seen tonight. Maybe I'm being completely ridiculous writing him off again. I do think that's still possible. He is still 38 years old coming up against someone in his absolute prime who we think is going to be an all-time great in Carlos Alcaraz. But if he can make it a match, if he can get into it, if he can get in Alcaraz's head, he is going to fancy his chances. He is dangerous on Sunday night, Novak Djokovic, after what he's just pulled off.

25:56I mean, he articulated kind of the worries I and I imagine everyone had was a kind of like, what state is he going to be in now? And it's the Pat Cunter thing, can he lift himself again? And I mean, obviously a few hours before we'd had all those same concerns about Alcaraz. So maybe they can't see each other out and they're both kind of knackered for that match. but I do think for him to lift, you know, we've seen it, we saw it here last year, he beat Alcaraz, obviously he suffered an injury in that match, but then he wasn't able to then back it up against Zverev. We just don't know how much this, I mean, he was also playing at, he was playing at basically a peak level.

26:36Whether he'd be able to do that again, and, you know, whether part of as much as Sinner obviously wasn't going to say he was surprised, whether there was an element of a surprise factor, subconsciously or otherwise everyone was writing him off i'm sure you know all the expectations and he got to be the defiant kind of i'm going to show you guy whereas now i think a lot of people will be thinking he's got a great shot this is an even match against the guy who's just played five and a half hours a guy who jokovic beat here last year who he's beaten in other big matches we know alcaraz even in that us open final when jokovic was clearly injured and you know could barely moved by the end but Alcres even said he was like I didn't really enjoy it like I don't he doesn't like playing Djokovic um but maybe that's going to force him to lock in as well and there's also this just so tantalizing situation of just the feel the feeling of both these both these men

27:33Matt Roberts: feel like they're fated to win this title right it feels like oh well of course you know the the the tide is with Novak Djokovic. This is destined to happen. And it felt like that with Carlos Alcaraz earlier today. And they can't both. We should probably talk about Carlos Alcaraz and his five hours and 27 minutes en route to this final. We will do that in part two.

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29:48Matt Roberts: Bombas is styles for whatever you enjoy. You can run in Bombas, lounge in Bombas, dress them up, dress them down, but always give back in Bombas. Because with every item purchased, another is donated. Bombas, comfort worth calling for. Go to bombas.com slash audio and use code audio for 20 % off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com and use code audio. Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast, where it is time to talk about the longest semifinal in Australian Open history. 6-4, 7-6, 6-7, 6-7, 7-5. Carlos Alcaraz beat Alexander Zverev. Matt, we met post-puke Alcaraz today. what a player he is I've yet to find a version of Carlos Alcaraz that I don't like and post-puke was also great gosh this match I mean so much has happened since this match but this was one of those ones that just became an entirely different organism all together, half way through it Carlos Alcres was not at his best in the first set.

31:07I think his serve was really getting him out of trouble in that first set. His ground strokes weren't quite on it. His then serve drops off in the second set, but then he started finding the ground strokes, and he'd had a period at the start of the second set where he was a little bit too much the showman, I think, and not quite locking in and winning the points he needed to win, so therefore he went down a break, but he got it back and he won the second set and honestly I thought he was cruising to victory here and then it just all changed when well I thought he was injured initially my first reaction to what happened was that he was injured that he had stretched for a ball and hurt his leg and then when he took a medical timeout I thought right well he's definitely injured because you can't can't take a medical timeout for cramp.

32:01But it became apparent quite quickly, actually, that this was cramping and that he was struggling with that and it was going to be something that he was then going to have to manage through the rest of the match. And we were presented with this incredible scenario where Alcaraz has got this lead, but he's cramping. Kanzverev deal with facing a cramping opponent, but he's got such a clear advantage At least because Alcaraz is barely moving at times. But has Alcaraz got enough time left in the match for it to wear off? Enough for him to still get over the line? It just became fascinating and gripping in a way that I just couldn't have imagined after the way the first couple of sets played out.

32:46Matt Roberts: Charlie, you called this an act of escapology, much like the Roland Garros final, which I completely agree with. And yet it's just wild, isn't it? He was two sets to love up and cruising, and yet it was an act of escapology that he won that match today. Yeah, it's weird because it does feel kind of backward that he was the one two sets up rather than two sets down. But it absolutely did feel like he was sort of done for for a while. Both because there was this sense either he was going to pull out or it was like, is he going to just sort of stagger towards the finish line just so he can complete the match?

33:25you know one of those types or then obviously once it does get to the fifth set Zverev gets the early break and just and keeps holding on again a bit like Sinner missing all those break points in the fifth set and throughout the match against Djokovic that was Alcaraz against Zverev in that fifth set until finally he did break him but yeah it had that escapology feel I mean he is just he's the guy at doing that I mean like Djokovic did it to Federer a few times but it's pretty rare to be doing that in like you know top level grand slam semis and finals like just clawing your way out of these situations and the way he does it and just you know is so fearless and you know he talked about belief it's just about like never giving up i refuse to give up which he said on court and then expanded in the press conference a bit but uh yeah he was right on the precipice again and

34:16Matt Roberts: kind of just hauled himself back it was a three-act play wasn't it it was the first two sets Alcaraz cruising it was most of the next two sets of Alcaraz walking around like a zombie trying to keep himself as loose as possible but also kind of just running down the clock to give himself time for the pickle juice to to work you know we we we heard that his box I think it but Sammy Lopez said to him, like, it'll wear off in a while. Just hang in there. It will wear off in a while. We had Darren Cahill saying that to Deannick Sinner earlier in the tournament in a slightly different scenario, but, like, just find a way to stay in the match and you'll have your chance later on.

35:03Matt Roberts: And then the third act, obviously, was that fifth set where it felt like, you know, OK, they were both out on their feet because they'd been playing for five hours, but it became a proper competitive tennis match again for that fifth set. Yeah, I was really impressed with the way Alcaraz managed his game in that period where he was clearly really struggling with the cramps because first of all he really stripped everything back in terms of movement but was still able to come up with some absolutely outrageous shot making. It was like so efficient suddenly his tennis became.

35:46David Law: He got to within two points of winning the match in straight.

35:50Matt Roberts: He immediately went a love 30 on the Zvereux serve, didn't he?

35:53David Law: While standing still hitting drop shot winners. It was actually conversely a reminder of his talent in some ways because he was just teeing off in a way we rarely see him doing now because he's a bit more methodical. It was kind of a throwback, but he was basically just absolutely leathering forehands or pulling out really early drop shots. Yeah, so that was remarkable. But then what I really enjoyed was his attitude to it all. Like there was no real sense of panic about him. I think maybe in the initial stages and, you know, there was a lot of chat between him and the team. But as it went on, I think he, you know, he was heard saying to himself, poco a poco, little by little.

36:32Like he was, he just realized that he did have time still in this match and he kept celebrating the little wins along the way. Like raising his arms aloft, keeping the crowd fully engaged in it, grinning, like making everyone in that stadium believe along with him. So he like, he wasn't on his own in that belief. He suddenly had this groundswell of support around him. He was obviously the more popular player in the match anyway, but he galvanised everyone to believe in his comeback story from two sets up. It was a crazy feat that he pulled off, and I think only Carlos Alcaraz could have done that.

37:12It's one of his gifts, the way that he can connect with crowds like that. I really think it was an important aspect in this match for him.

37:22Matt Roberts: It was like the French Open final was a rehearsal for today. I remember him doing that at a sit-down in the French Open final after a hold of serve when he was a breakdown and he shook his fist at the crowd. Like, it's OK. Come with me.

37:37David Law: It's OK.

37:38Matt Roberts: We're still in this. Maybe not quite I've got this, but I've got a chance in this and I feel OK about it. Don't give up on me. And he was like, I've done this before. I know this play and it was a tidal wave, that emotion tonight. Well, and he managed to use the missed opportunities as belief. He said in the press conference that OK was frustrated not being able to take his break points, but he was mentally telling himself, well, that means you're getting chances. and like that that mentality is incredible like there'd be a lot of players who would just treat that as everything slipping away but he he knew he had something to hold on to there just on the crowd point as well I do think that will be a really interesting element of Sunday because obviously Novak did have a lot of the crowd today what happens on Sunday you know Alkraza is so beloved kind of everywhere but you know Novak is in some ways divisive here but he does have a huge swell of support as well where are they going to go and how does it affect both those players we've seen before a bit in that u.s open semi-final i seem to remember and the crowd were quite with djokovic in a sort of not sympathy but in a you need a lift more and i don't think alcaraz loved that yeah i think it i think it depends how much serbian support turns out right like there's a huge serbian community here and they show up for him i think the the neutrals i would expect to be more with Carlos Alcaraz because that's just what he does to people.

39:22Matt Roberts: But obviously Djokovic will have some support from the neutrals and the Serbians show up and make themselves known. David, I feel like tonight was, I mean it was always going to be a win for one of your theories because you've got two totally opposite theories on the go. It's a numbers game of theories. But it really was a win for your second Alcaraz theory I think about this being a coming of age for him a post Ferreira coming of age the way as Matt has just described his management of that situation the way you could see him he was playing this languid tennis keeping himself loose we've seen him before in these situations we know cramp is stress related for him it was also okay it wasn't the hottest day we've had but they played in the blazing sun all day there's a hole in the ozone layer in australia and being in the sun on a 30 degree day is serious business um but it you know it is also stress related and we've seen those cramps take over his body we see him feel feel them in his arms you could see him shaking out his arms all the time trying to keep those loose it was like it was like he shut down on all the unnecessary systems in his body just to keep the essential ones going long enough that he could fire back up the whole thing in set five.

40:49Matt Roberts: I thought it was incredible maturity today.

40:53David Law: Yeah, actually, the theory manifested itself in a way that I wasn't really anticipating because the moment I came up with it was when he went three love up against Alex Diminor and I just thought he looks released. He looks as though he's just playing on his own terms, and that is a frightening prospect for anybody. In this instance, I'd be fascinated to know what led to the cramp. It did occur to me, is Ferreira not being around, meaning he's not as well prepared as he used to be? Just all things that were flying around in my head, and I have absolutely no idea whether that's the case. But actually, the thing that I wasn't expecting was what you've just discussed there about his own management of himself, his own taking control of this adverse situation.

41:41David Law: And also, another element was the first two sets that kind of get forgotten when he wasn't playing Carlos Alcaraz-type tennis, he was playing Alexander Zverev-type tennis. He was almost saying, I'm going to beat you at your own game. I'm going to hit big serves, I'm going to go toe-to-toe with you from the baseline. Charlie and I were sat next to each other and it just kept occurring to me, It's like he just wants to be a wall and just beat him. He's not hitting any drop shots. It took an hour for him to hit a drop shot in the match. And so there was that. And then there was the kind of releasing his body from the cramp and overcoming it.

42:19David Law: And then finding this way to incrementally work his way back in that fifth set from a breakdown to get the break back. It was just a masterclass because what Zverev told us is that he ran out of gas. Alcrast wore him down with that accumulation of break points and long rallies. It's so true, though, isn't it? We used to think of Alcrast, he was characterized as a bit immature and all of those things. What an unbelievably intelligent and smart person he is. Both, we're talking today, yeah, about how he managed his body and was able to work out exactly what he needed to do at any given moment to preserve his energy.

42:58But just like the emotional intelligence, like we're talking about, to know how to work a crowd and harness energy like that is such a hard skill and to do it in a way that's not annoying that's not kind of arrogant that doesn't provoke your opponent because you know if you get that wrong if you if you sort of get that showmanship a bit wrong you're just a dick and people don't like you and your opponent is kind of like wants to beat you all the more but he he has found a way he's basically perfected that and I think it's totally authentic to know how to work a crowd and feed off their energy and it becomes so kind of I don't know perpetuating and what goes both ways just just another word on the thing that he's kept

43:41David Law: referring to all tournament long about his concentration how proud he is of that end of the second set when he's been 2-5 down and he wins that set which he knows is really in the balance his celebration wasn't finger to the ear it was finger to the temple looking at his team and I got the sense that he was he was proud of himself you know and I mean look he ended up going through all manner of trouble that he wasn't anticipating but I think that's just another little stage in his development incidentally Zverev said it was the second set that he most regretted rather than anything that came later because he should have won that set I mean as

44:17Matt Roberts: David said he was 5-2 up should he have though because he was 5-2 up and he missed that volley at five all in the tie break. He was five to up, but that felt largely against the run of play to me. I mean, he then mentioned that he felt like he wasn't ruthless enough in sets three and four. Yeah, because he let them go to tie breaks. He let them go to tie breaks. I think that if there is a regret for Zverev, I think it's that personally. Yeah, me too. And he mentioned that as well. But I do really stand by the take that that was some of the best tennis in crucial moments that Zverev has ever delivered.

44:58I totally do not think this was a choke from Zverev, even though he was up a break in that fifth set all the way and ended up losing his serve as he served for it and couldn't even take it to a tiebreak. I think that was 90 % physical in that final set. He did the right things all the way through the match, didn't he? The way he was holding onto his serve and some of the forehands... The forehand he hit to hold for 5-3 smashed up the line. I've never seen him hit a shot basically at any point, let alone in an absolutely massive moment like that. No, I completely agree. I don't think it would be fair for the narrative to be, oh, Zverev's choked again.

45:38That wasn't what happened. It was a haymaker forehand, that was. And he met so many moments like that throughout the fifth set. like I do think yes maybe he could have closed the second set I do I thought he played quite poorly when Alcaraz was really struggling with the movement I think he his mind was scrambled which again is understandable and he knew that he couldn't lose the match

46:08David Law: he was feeling an injustice as well at that point he was and I think he was probably right to be

46:14Matt Roberts: yeah because So the sequence of events in the third set, well, actually sort of backdating it a bit, we didn't know this had happened at the time, but it was then reported that ESPN had spotted that at 3-2 in the third set, Alcaraz vomited into his towel. So we found out that we were watching post-puke Alcaraz, sort of in retrospect. and then at 4-all in the third set we see Alcaraz lunge into a forehand I think it was and he immediately pulls up on his right leg looks like something in the groin type area there's instantly, obviously, something wrong he manages to hold for 5-4 with three insanely good points and then he goes to the sit-down, the physio comes out, assesses him, he's pointing at his right groin, his right adductor, and he then starts getting a medical timeout, the umpire announces a medical timeout, and at the time we all thought he had an injury, that he'd tweaked or maybe worse, even torn a muscle in that area.

47:36Matt Roberts: Zverev at this point thinks it's cramp and he lets it be known that he thinks it's cramp. He says it's unbelievable that he's getting treated for cramps. It's BS. You're protecting these two guys all the time, sort of suggesting special treatment for Alcaraz and Sinner. Now, the rules are you're allowed to receive medical attention for cramp at changes of ends, three of them. But you're not allowed to take a medical time out for cramp. There is a provision in the rules here for cramping that is precipitated by heat stress. Yeah, I know, which feels to me an incredibly grey area because how do you know, how are you able to make that diagnosis in the moment and what heat does it qualify?

48:23Today was 30 degrees, it was hot as you say. You know, who can say definitively, yeah, I'm cramping because of the heat? But Alcaraz said that he told the physio that it was an adductor injury because he was only feeling it in that region at that point. He thought it was an injury. And the physio said, OK, well, I'll give you a rub.

48:45Matt Roberts: And he did only give that area a rub at that time. And then subsequently he had rubs to both legs. We saw him chugging the pickle juice like it became very obvious quite quickly that it was that it was cramp. And look, I think big picture, there should be a change to the rules around cramping and medical timeouts. But I think given what the rules are, it was very legitimate for Zverev to be as het up as he was. OK, I think the sort of you're protecting these guys line is not so into that. But I think legit for him to be pretty wound up by this. definitely and actually again to be fair to him i thought his press conference was was really good like he was very sporting yeah he was very sporting i think everyone was kind of thinking you know rubbing their hands a bit like oh look how annoyed he got in the match he's going to absolutely tee off in the press conference if we just you know give him a nudge and he really didn't he was kind of you know he even said i don't want such a great match to be overshadowed with this incident but yeah in the moment i can see why he was really wound up and you know hit The comment about protecting the big two, I'm sure that reflects a view amongst many in the locker room, rightly or wrongly.

50:03It's kind of a tough scene, especially coming from him, who has been protected by the sport. Yes. In a much larger way. Yeah, I mean, Zverev, yeah, it's so hard because he, again, we're coming off a match in a tournament where he's pushed himself and he's turning a good performance but ultimately it just wasn't quite enough and you know think back to that french open final a couple of years ago i mean i'm trying to remember that match so well but he he well he certainly never got as close i mean he was never he was two sets to one he was two sets to one up yeah but he he didn't he didn't he wasn't a breakup

50:45David Law: in the fifth i think the point the main point is that he's never played a whole tournament including the decisive match in his journey like this he's never taken it on he's finally doing what all the coaches and rafael nadal who he met up with last year and all the pundits and people like us have said why is this six foot seven guy playing counter-attacking tennis and why does he go into his shell and just try and survive when anybody stands up to him in a big moment well he didn't do that today he tried to take out Carlos Alcaraz in exactly the way you would want him to if you were wanting him to be the winner of this match and if he sticks to that going forwards he actually has a chance of fulfilling his dreams um he still has to cope with the fact that there's Carlos Alcaraz and Yannick Sinner in the sport and they may just be too good for him I think they are too good for him but who knows when somebody's going to run into cramp who knows when somebody's going to get an injury maybe they'll have a bad day this is his blueprint for actually winning at grand slam right here there's also no at jokovic day well that's true yeah no i mean he may hope like your andy murray relived uh episode recently that this is his kind of 2012 semi-final against jokovic equivalent that you know on one hand yeah you know that was a that was an absolute heartbreaker for Murray, but it also showed him that maybe he wasn't a million miles away as he had been seen before.

52:21Maybe Zverev can kind of channel that kind of energy as well.

52:24Matt Roberts: Do you think, it's a genuine question, I'm not sure I have an answer to it, but do you think there were, I mean, I was really struck by how sporting and like not okay, he was obviously gutted, Zverev, but it was a very different scene to Yannick Sinner's press conference. tonally. Sinner was furious, clearly. Handled himself, was very contained about it, but was clearly, clearly furious. Whereas Zverev was exhausted and gutted, but very magnanimous and accepting. Do you think there's a part of him that knows he would have been lucky if he'd won today? Gotten lucky with what happened to Alcaraz?

53:09Matt Roberts: physically. I don't think that. No, I don't think so.

53:12David Law: No, I think he feels, well, in his words, he said, I'm too tired to be upset about it. Would he have been lucky? I don't think so, because I think he would then be a bit like, you can't have it both ways. Like, this is a sport about, you know, getting cramp and everything like that. If my opponent gets cramp and I beat him because of that, well that's on him that's his lack of conditioning that's his problem

53:40Matt Roberts: is it lack of conditioning we don't know we don't know that is how the sport treats it this is probably not a conversation for 3.15 in the morning that is how the sport treats it

53:48David Law: I mean I actually do feel that a change should be made and I think people should be allowed to include cramp in the medical time out personally and also like today is a good case study of what it would look like like he did have treatment for cramp today and it like it didn't solve it but it's like on court coaching rather than it's going on and everybody's pretending it's not, just do it. What difference does it make? What does loss of conditioning mean anyway? It means somebody gets stressed or somebody hasn't had quite enough to drink. It's not like Carlos Alcaraz isn't fit enough.

54:22Matt Roberts: And an injury can be provoked, or at least in part provoked, by a loss of conditioning. These things aren't binary. But I don't think Zverev would have felt lucky, and I don't think he should, because Sinner and Alcaraz win a lot of matches if they're not necessarily their best, but they are physically better than their opponent and they can kind of rely on that. And I think Zverev justifiably prides himself on being one of the fittest guys on the tour. And if that had meant outlasting Carlos Alcaraz, I don't think he would have seen that as luck. I think he would have seen that as more vindication for how much he backs himself physically.

54:59David Law: Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, I think Lorenzo Mazzetti was unlucky. He was two sets up. He was outplaying his opponents and he pulled up with a torn muscle. That's unlucky. You can't do anything about that. Yeah, I tend to agree.

55:18Matt Roberts: He, well, I mean, he too was exhausted in his press conference, wasn't he? Carlos Alcaraz. And he had the glint in his eye, but he was also quite businesslike, I thought. that he, I mean, obviously he wants this so much. He wants it more than the next three slams, Catherine. He wants it more than the other three put together.

55:43David Law: Catherine put that question to him, and I couldn't believe that he just didn't take a beat before saying, yes, I'd rather win this tournament to be the youngest ever to win the career slam than if I would have won Roland Garros, Wimbledon and the USA, but I'd rather win this one. But he did say he does want to reach the final.

55:59Matt Roberts: Yeah, he did a big grin, he went, but I can reach the final, right? He's thinking about his ranking. And again, it's not like, you know, after five hours, 27 minutes, ask that question, he's not going to come in and go, well, actually, yeah, I'm not that bothered. Yeah, I'll have one of the other ones. I mean, it's crazy. But it was the fact that he didn't take a beat, wasn't it? It was the way he answered the question, I think, that was so striking to me anyway. You know, sometimes when you think like, oh, we in the media are making a big deal out of a certain achievement or statistic or whatever.

56:27In this case, clearly, no, he is as much in agreement as we are that this would be a hugely significant thing to be the youngest guy to do it. But it's crazy. I remember reading Nadal's autobiography years ago, and he talks about after he beat Vidasco in five and a quarter hours. I mean, that must have been the longest semi until today and how broken he was physically. I mean, how he was just absolutely wrecked. And granted, that was a more physical match, I think, than today's in lots of ways. that was extraordinary, you know, long rallies. Obviously, Novak in that 2012 semi that I mentioned earlier, he then went and beat Nadal in six hours.

57:05So there is precedent for doing this. But to go again, like, off the back of a five and a half, a five and a half hour match. I mean, you know, Murray talked about he could barely move after his semi-final against Djokovic.

57:17Matt Roberts: And he did say, he said, look, I don't know how I'm going to be on Sunday. He said, I feel pretty crap now.

57:24David Law: It's tantalising, really. because of the unknowns. I mean, we all just hope that they are able to physically turn up and not be compromised because there was a very real scenario for a while where I thought, okay, I think Alcaraz might scrape this through and then not be able to play the final. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had that thought. That would have been very 2026. Very Dodd slam.

57:48Matt Roberts: God, do you remember the Dodd slam? What would they have done instead of a final? Bring out that one-point slam guy? Do you remember when Federer... Rafa's here, but he has just had surgery. Rafa's been given a Kia in... Yeah, in about two hours from now. Six and a half hours. Rafael Nadal will be here being presented with a special Kia. But yeah, there was that O2. There was the ATP finals in the O2, wasn't there? Yes, and they got Tim Henman, Andy Murray, who'd lost in the tournament. Yeah. Who'd been thrashed in the tournament. Yeah. To just come and play. To come and play an exhibition.

58:25David Law: Yep. Chris Commode did his stuff. Yeah, made some calls.

58:30Matt Roberts: Charlie, we get 24 hours to make our predictions, give our thoughts for Sunday's final. I need yours now. That's so hard because... It's always hard. You're not getting out of it. Alcraz in four. But the variables involved in this, I mean... Yeah, OK. I'll take it. I'll take it because it is 3.20 in the morning. That is it for part two. We'll be back in part three with Sensation of the Day. And a look ahead to tomorrow. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the Fortune 500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows and AI, connecting every corner of your business.

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1:00:13Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast, where there's really only one contender for sensation of the day or sensations of the day. It's the mixed doubles champions, Olivier Gadecki and John Pearce, who won the title on the Rod Laver Arena about 14 hours ago. They beat Kristina Medinovich and Manuel Guinard, 4-6-6-3-10-8, a thriller, in the mixed doubles final. And they lost in the mixed final last year, didn't they, Gadecki and Pearce? So well done to them. the double crown of mixed doubles champions and sensations of the day.

1:00:47David Law: Absolutely.

1:00:48Matt Roberts: Huge for them. I did have in the agenda here David and Matt Dingles. Talk about overshadowed. But that was when I thought we were still in the Dodd Slam. And I think Dingles is going to have to go from this agenda. That's a shame. Very quick summary. David was incredible. OK. He really was. He did a drop shot lob. and then just mic dropped and left. That's amazing. That's all the people need to know. A quick summary of wheelchair events today. Alfie Hewitt lost in the men's wheelchair singles in the semifinals, lost in straight sets to Martin de la Puente. De la Puente will now face Taquito Oda in the final.

1:01:33Matt Roberts: Oda beat Gustav Fernandes and Oda and Fernandes later teamed up to win the men's doubles title, the men's doubles title. their second major title together after the US Open. The top seed in the women's wheelchair singles also lost. Xi Xiaohui took out Yumi Kamiji, the top seed, 10-8 in the third. So in tomorrow's final, Xi will face Dida Derhut, who also won through a thriller, 11-9 in the third versus Wong Ziying. Xiaohui is going for a first Grand Slam singles title in her second consecutive final, and De Gucht is going for a 24th and she's into her first singles final since Wimbledon 2024. In the quad, singles, Niels Wink and Sam Schroeder set up yet another final.

1:02:23Matt Roberts: Wink has already won the quad doubles title. That was earlier on today or yesterday, whenever it was, with Guy Sasson. They beat Heath Davidson and Andy Lapthorne in two straight sets. And the women's wheelchair doubles final was also played today. That was won by Li Xiaohui and Wang Ziyang over Yui Kimiji and Zhu Zhenzhen. So the order of play for tomorrow. I've written in here, Rafael Nadal receiving a Kia at 10am. That's the important way the day is starting. Will anyone be here? I'm not sure any media are going to be here for that. No.

1:03:01David Law: If there's a Kia knocking around, I'll be here.

1:03:04Matt Roberts: The fact that Rafael Nadal is in town, though, suggests to me that he might be doing the trophy presentation on Sunday. He, of course, is the current youngest man to complete the career Grand Slam. It's just a hunch for me. It doesn't end with the Kia. He hasn't come all this way. Just to get a Kia. Just to receive a Kia that's a different colour to all the other Kias. Right, day 14. it's the women's doubles final first Anna Danilina and Alexandra Krunic taking on the new doubles world number one come Monday, Lisa Mertens and Zhang Shuai then it is the men's doubles final, they do them back to back here Jason Kubler and Mark Polmans the Australian wild cards taking on the six seeds, Christian Harrison and Neil Skubsky, these leaf blowers really want us to leave, then in the night session from 7.30pm probably later than that because of faff if I've learned anything today.

1:04:02Matt Roberts: Arena Sabalenka against Elena Rabakina. Charlie Eccleshaw, what's going to happen? Ooh, I think it's going to be three sets. I feel quite confident in that. Ah, it's a really hard one to call because I've been sort of backing Rabakina for much of this tournament. Um, do I stick with her? No, I think Sabalenka will win it. yeah wow this from the guy that picked Vondroshova to win Wimbledon I know I really did I really thought Rebecca had something special but I yeah I just think Sabalenka will just about get over the line but I think it will be a really close match David Matt Sabalenka yeah

1:04:53David Law: I think the same I think we're in for a close one I think we've had the crappy slam Now we're going to have the excellent slam. It doesn't quite crawl off the tongue. We're going to have that. So for the last three days, it's all going to be excellent. And I think it's going to be three sets, and I think Sabalenka will edge it. Yeah, I'm leaning Sabalenka as well. I do think the way they were back in the forehand fell apart down the stretch a bit against Pagula would be a little bit of a concern I would have coming into a final, whereas Sabalenka, OK, hasn't been tested in quite the same way as Pagula did test for Bakkena there.

1:05:37But I don't know, she's just been more convincing. She's talking a lot, isn't she, Sabalenka, about, you know, she knows what went wrong in those finals last year in the Grand Slam, is what she says. And then she obviously played a good US Open final. I'm backing Sabalenka to get it done. But I think possibly three sets as well. Most of her, as I said yesterday, most of her wins over Rabakina have been three sets. Rabakina does have an ability to beat Sabalenka in straight sets. She's done it a lot, but Sabalenka doesn't lose in slams in straight sets. She's on an incredible streak of over 100 matches of that not happening.

1:06:18So I think it's going to be close. I think it would take something very special to be as good as their final here three years ago, which was one of the great Grand Sam finals that I've seen in terms of quality. But I think it's going to be good. And I am just backing Sabalenka.

1:06:38Matt Roberts: OK, I'll go Rabakina. I do think one area where I think Rabakina could make life difficult for Sabalenka is how kind of serene and zen she is. And I think my theory I have is that part of, I think, what helped Sabalenka against Anna Samova in the US Open final was seeing that Anna Simova was really stressed. And I think that really helped Sabalenka to be like, oh, I'm not the stressed one here for once. Like, you know, she's used to going to Grandstand finals. And especially at that point, that was coming towards the end of the year where she'd lost a couple and all the focus was on how stressed is she going to be.

1:07:13And Anna Simova was that one. And I really think that helps. But I think, you know, conversely then, the fact that Rebecca will give her nothing. And Paguda talked about this after that match. She was like, it is really hard against her because she gives nothing away. and you know Sabalenka will be so outwardly expressive we know that I also think the return of serve we talk a lot about Rabakina's serve her return can be really good and I think she could have some real joy on the Sabalenka serve and I think that will really piss Sabalenka off to use it I think the term she used the other night God you made such a good case for Rabakina

1:07:47Matt Roberts: you picked it from the start of the tournament and you're picking Sabalenka I know that's just yeah the last couple of rounds I feel Sabalenka has really stepped up. Just an Eccleshire feeling. Yeah, just suddenly getting that... I think once you get this close in, she has stepped it up. But yeah, I could definitely make a case for her back in there. I do think, just to slightly counter the point about the stress, I do think it is sometimes helpful for Sabalenka in Grand Sam Finals to feel like not everything is on her racket. I think that can slightly calm her down. I think we did see that here against Rabatkinner in their grandstand final.

1:08:32The opposite of Goff, basically. The opposite of Goff. And I think we saw it against Anisimova as well. Like, knowing sometimes that the person down the other end is going to come up with a loose error and that kind of stuff. Like, obviously, if Rabatkinner is totally on it, that doesn't really work. But I think the stress of a grandstand final will mean that there might be the odd little sort of rough moment for Rabakina. And Rabakina got tight down the stretch against Pagula the other night. She did, yeah, the forehand. You mentioned her forehand breaking down, but she looked pretty edgy. She admitted that after.

1:09:07Matt Roberts: I am excited. I feel pretty confident this is going to be good. These things catch, in the words of Matt Roberts. That's it, right? We're now in the bit where, as David said, it's all going to be epic. We've had 12 days of catching cram. We've broken the spell. We are collecting the debt, folks. We're doing it with Gus, our Australian Open mascot. Our mascots, Bodie, Maisie and Roger, our executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. I think Matt would kill me if I asked him to do shout-outs right now.

1:09:38David Law: Yeah, so would these leaf blowers.

1:09:40Matt Roberts: So we'll save that for tomorrow. Charlie, thank you ever so much for your precious sleep time tonight. It's been great. Thank you very much. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. What an extraordinary day it has been here in Melbourne. Thank you for listening. Let's do it all again tomorrow. We'll speak to you then.

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