Can anyone stop Alcaraz the serve bot?

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1:40Well, hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast on this fine Monday morning, the last Monday morning before Wimbledon. Yeah, I was in Wimbledon Village yesterday morning. All the shops have their Wimbledon themed displays in them. Lots of sort of mannequins with tennis balls as heads. which is a little bit weird but I see what they're going for. You're going to love it. David Law is here. How are you doing David?

2:07David Law: I can't wait. In fact I think I'm going to come down today. I'm supposed to come down on Wednesday but now I can't wait because I want to see a mannequin with a tennis ball head. Let's do it. I will take a picture for you on my dog walk later. Now unfortunately not with us this morning is Matt Roberts. Where is Matt in this critical week leading up to a Grand Slam? I hear you ask. Well, where else but on a plane to San Sebastian to see Bruce Springsteen? Don't worry, he is back on Wednesday and he promises to be, quote, invigorated. Plus, we have a more than adequate replacement for Matt on today's show.

2:48A Springsteen fan like myself, he's far too professional, just one off to Spain in the lead up to a Grand Slam. It's the Athletics' Charlie Eccleshire. Hello, Charlie. And thank you for your professionalism. No, I'm delighted to be here. I mean, would I rather be where Matt is? Yes, 100%. But as a second option, this is wonderful. Delighted. Thank you. Yes, I feel the same. How do you feel about mannequins with tennis balls as heads? Good. Yeah, I've always been pro that. Great. Great. You're going to be in the right place in a few days' time. Right, let's get into it because there is a whole lot to talk about on today's show.

3:32Let's start at Queen's, where Carlos Alcaraz has become a two-time HSBC Championships champion, lifting that enormous trophy for the second time in three years. He beat Euriel Hetchka 7-5, 6-7, 6-2 in the final. How good was he in this final, David?

3:54David Law: Oh, he was good enough. Very good. And I still think there was room for even better. And actually, you know, he will probably feel like he should have won it in straight sets. I do think Uri Lehechka deserved that third set for his application and for his professionalism and for his quality overall. all I mean I think he played pretty much to the upper reaches of his ability in order to take that into three sets it is tough to do that against Alcraz when Alcraz is serving the way he is right now I mean that's that was the big standout for me for Alcraz this week that's the first time apart from the Wimbledon final last year that's the first time I've seen him put back-to-back serving performances in and then to sort of withstand the disappointment of not winning it in two he could so easily have just thought you know what it's not that big a deal I'm trying to win Wimbledon that's the goal but no he wanted this title and he just refreshed himself and he rebooted and off he went and won the third easily I thought it was it was an exceptionally good week for our Kras.

5:00It's really interesting on the serve thing because he clearly does take a huge amount of pride in it when he does serve well because he's not someone who serves really well i think he and he i'm sure he really doesn't like the fact that he can do everything brilliantly but he's just he's not a great server so when he does serve well you can see it means a lot to him and after the moon arm match he actually he you know he was asked like you know were you um you showed signs of frustration you disappointed maybe that you let your temper boil over or whatever it was like no that can happen what i'm annoyed about is my serving it wasn't good enough um i need to do better basically so clearly that's a big preoccupation right now especially the fact that we're playing on grass.

5:39And I'm sure he does think about that Djokovic final, apart from that weird last game where he blew it. But I think that's the best serving performance I've ever seen from him. And if he serves like that, then, I mean, where's the chink? What do you attack? Because that's the one thing that gives some players hope, I think. Right. That's what I was thinking all throughout those last couple of matches from Carlos Alcraz, both in which he broke his own ace record for a best of three set match. He did it in the semi-finals very comfortably in a two set 6-4, 6-4 win over Roberto Batista Agut. I think he hit 15 in that match, was it?

6:21An eight in the first set. And then he hit 18, I think, in the end in the final. But of course, that was three sets. But both still records for best of three set matches. Like if you're somebody else in the locker room and you've already experienced the famous Carlos Alcaraz with the slightly dodgy serve. And now you're looking at the famous Carlos Alcaraz, the serve bot. Like how demoralizing for everybody else. If he can keep up this serving and this consistency, this is four titles in his last five tournaments and he reached the final of the fifth one. We haven't seen any real lapsed performances from him.

7:09I think this is a problem for the rest of men's tennis for the next 10 years. Well, yeah, and the thing is as well, it's kind of twofold, the serve issue, because not only is he serving better, but it gives him a focus. I think he's far less likely to sort of let his mind wander. When matches get a bit silly and up and down, that's when, yeah, maybe he might start doing stupid stuff. But serving keeps him kind of locked in because he really wants to keep not getting broken. And if he's serving 18 aces, you know, he's serving, that's more than an ace a game. So, you know, for him to then start, you know, that's such a big thing for him.

7:42And I just think he really, you can see he's got a real pride. Like, I don't want to get broken. And that's worrying because, you know, You want him to start getting a bit lax and throwing in some stupid shots and stuff. If he's locked in, then that really is a problem. That's such a good point. He's like a keeper that wants to keep a clean sheet. Yeah, exactly. It prevents him from having the lads, it's Tottenham energy. David, I feel like the next thing we should do is to hear from Carlos Alcaraz because we got the chance to speak to him yesterday, minutes after he lifted that incredible trophy.

8:21We've been doing shows, review shows, recap shows on Tennis Channel for the last couple of weeks and a bit of commentary as well. And it's been tremendous fun. And it all culminated yesterday in us getting to have Carlos Alcaraz live on the show. And of course, we asked him quite a lot about the serve. So it feels like the next thing we should do is to hear that interview and you get a little bit of a Matt Roberts cameo as well. So here we are speaking to the freshly crowned Queen's Club champion, Carlos Alcaraz. We hear you. Carlos, congratulations. Thank you. You are the king of Queen's yet again.

8:59How good does it feel to be you right now? Well, it feels great, to be honest. Here at Queen's, it's a really special,

9:12place. Obviously, seeing back a little bit that I came with no expectation, I ended up playing on Sunday and lifting the trophy, playing such a great tennis and feeling great moving on the grass. I couldn't ask for a better feeling right now. And how does it feel to be a serve bot now? Much easier. The match is alright. I can play with less stress, let's say. Knowing that I'm serving great, I think the staff gives you a lot of confidence, a lot of calm during the points, during the punches. So I'm just glad the way that I was serving today and yesterday especially.

9:59David Law: Carlos, does this feel now like something that you have a little bit of control over this serve because after the match against Muna, when you weren't serving as well, you made some adjustments and you've been serving more aces than we've ever seen from you. Do you feel like this could be something you could repeat at Wimbledon and in the future now? Yeah, absolutely. I know what I have to do. I know what I have to practice on the serve. so obviously I think I'm not going to surf like this every match there will be some day or some matches that I will not feel the same way but the good thing is I know what I have to adjust the surf just to make a good surf on the matches so I think that's the positive thing I know the the things that I have to put on the practices.

11:04But yeah, I just hope to play and well, to surf like this at Wimbledon because on grass is a really important weapon. And I will try to make the most of it and let's see. But I'll keep putting a lot of focus on the surf this week and obviously at Wimbledon. Carlos, I've always wondered what is your best surface you've now won 25 of your last 26 on grass and 34

11:37David Law: of your last 36 on clay so which one is it? I don't know I mean the results are making me even doubt about it so I don't know which one I would choose If Klay, Gras, honestly, I feel great on both. But, you know, we have much, much tournaments on Klay. So I would say Klay. Carlos, this time two weeks ago, 14 days ago, you were, I think, in about set number two of that Roland Garros final. Can you believe that was only two weeks ago? Well, first, I mean, as a tennis player, we have tournaments week after week after week. And sometimes we don't have time to realize what we have done. So once a tournament began, you forgot everything in the past.

12:44I mean, 100 % is in the tournament you're playing. the things that are going on right now. So, yeah, honestly, two weeks, it feels like, okay, super long, you know, seeing back. But, yeah, it's just I've been really focused on this tournament this week. So I didn't think, you know, in Rolanga-Rosa at all. So just like that. I hope you get the chance to enjoy it soon. Carlos, congratulations. Could you show us the trophy? I think it's the biggest trophy in tennis. I think so. At least I've never lived a trophy like this before. Let's have a look. Whoa, look at that. Yeah, that's a big one. Is it heavy?

13:38David Law: It is really heavy. I'll let you put it down. Enjoy the celebrations. Quick trip back to Ibiza? No, I don't think so. I wish. I wish. I hope to be back home, but I'm going to stay here in London. But I wish. Enjoy the celebrations in London, Carlos. Thanks so much for speaking to us. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. The look of glee, Charlie, when he lifted up that trophy. And David's look of glee when he lifted up that trophy. big cut, like how he just, it just makes you smile, doesn't he? And everything you had to say there totally, I think, backed up your take about the serve and it giving him a focus.

14:24I think that's a really interesting, a really interesting point, actually. I mean, serve's such an interesting shot as well, because at any level, there's such a pride. I think it really affects how one views oneself as a tennis player. Like even if you're, if you play, even if you win a match, but you're getting broken all the time it can i don't know there's i i just think there's there's something about it it's so like um it's like your defenses have been breached if you keep getting broken and and i think it does just give you a kind of feeling of strength and um and almost invincibility and that's what he seems to have you know like when pete sampras would win wimbledon it would be like it was basically unbreakable and no matter what else was going on if you have that that that gives you a real aura that david has entered the conversation and you know i i've

15:14David Law: always thought and i think carlos alkraus has always thought that the serve is a bit boring like that it's not really something to be getting excited about because you know that's not the fun bit is it it's the running around and seeing what you can do and make people jump out their seats And I think it's something that he's only getting now as a source of pride as he's realized that it's a bit like when you're a kid and you learn to work hard. I know this because this is what happened to me. I discovered work ethic. And suddenly I found out that that's cool and getting results is cool. I'm trying to teach my son this.

15:51David Law: And I feel like Alcraz is suddenly realizing, gee, if I serve well, these guys can't beat me. It's amazing. but you have to as him you have to accept that it's not going to be as fun and I think as viewers we're going to have to accept that and enjoy his performances because two sets of that yesterday were not fun really it was only really in the third set that it got fun and I just think that you that's okay yeah I mean you could say all three sets weren't that fun really like the second set tie break was fun and there was jeopardy in it Alcaraz did a totally improbable point and a finger to the ear.

16:33And obviously that's what I remember. But it was not a great tennis match. We were making comparisons to the 90s, to grass court tennis in the 90s in our commentary. And that was mostly because for me, David, so many of Alcaraz's service games were going by in about a minute. And the pressure that puts on the opponent. You know, Lehechka would fend off a break point or hold to juice or to 30, you know, a fairly normal service game. And suddenly he'd have the balls in his hand again because Alcaraz is just held to love in about 45 seconds.

17:12David Law: That's why I was so impressed with Lehechka for even keeping it close. But yeah, this is something, everybody keeps talking about this Wimbledon final, that this is where it was seen. And I don't even remember that. I don't remember it feeling quite like what we've seen the last couple of days. I mean, your reference to the 90s tennis, I remember the year before I started working at Queen's, 1995, there was a semi-final between, I think, Guy Forge and Pete Sampras. And I think there might have been about three rallies in the match that were longer than three strokes. This is the era when you fell in love with tennis, David.

17:51I know. How did you manage it?

17:52David Law: That's true love, Catherine. If you can fall in love with something as sort of functional as that was. That's loving someone on their worst day, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I always remember I was on a little camping holiday with my dad and my sister and my brother-in-law. So I'd finished my exams for my first year of university. and I remember being on this camping trip, listening to the radio, listening to John Inverdell present the Five Live coverage back then in 1995 and I remember him asking the pundit, an Australian coach, I think Warren Jakes, asking him, if tennis is like this, how do we appreciate it?

18:33David Law: How do we enjoy it? Because all that's happening is a service going down and somebody's failing to return it. And he said, well, at times like this, you've just got to appreciate the beauty of the serve and i remember trying to get on board with that even as a pete sambras fan trying to get on board with it and and and really struggling and but watching it yesterday i could appreciate it without necessarily enjoying it and i remember thinking god al kraus this is this is different level now well i guess as well because that's you know there are other elements there it's not all that there is um whereas back then in a lot of those matches that was kind of that was all that you were saying you know whereas at least the Alcaraz you're like oh this is quite intriguing this is interesting because we've often talked about the fact that he doesn't have this huge serve or whatever but on the subject of 90s grass court tennis David when um when Alcaraz and Munar played their match and it was clocked at 323 I've been sent in but I think it was actually 326 maybe anyway it was we were told it was the longest match at Queen's since 1991 um when Malavi Washington beat Mark Kale Kiel Kyle Kyle yeah I remember Mark Kyle he was he'd beaten Sampras that year at Queen's that's right yeah extraordinarily but this match was clocked at three hours 31 despite a scoreline and bear in mind this is grass court tennis in 1991 a scoreline of six seven and it was only seven three in the tie break 6-3, 6-2.

20:05Now, I do not believe for a second that match could have taken three and a half hours. It just couldn't, couldn't it? That can't be right. Is there a stoppage? Yeah, unless there was like a two-hour mid-match stoppage. I'm going to look

20:22David Law: into it, Charlie. I'm going to contact both players and see if I can find out. We tried to get Malibu, Washington, and he didn't engage. Because we were like, this is, we've got to find It's the last record that he's holding on to, Charlie. He doesn't want it taken from him. So if that gets struck off the record, does the Alcaraz-Munar match become the longest in Queen's history? Yeah, though I think the records only go back to 1990. Though I'd be, again, I'd be astonished if there was anything longer pre-1990. But yeah, it would be the longest on record. But yes, they run with this. By Washington refusing to engage.

21:00Can we track down Mark Kyle?

21:02David Law: Oh, I'm going to be trying. This man that I hadn't heard of five minutes ago. I've already found his website. I mean, team at Washington, next year will be 30 years since his Wimbledon final. There we are. It'll be very in demand. Gosh. You'll remember that, the Richard Krychek one. How long before you try and track down the streaker? Oh, yes. Yeah. Great shout. Are you actually going to do that? I'll leave that one with you, Charlie. Not to me, but someone can.

21:31Look, we're going to be doing a lot of Wimbledon previews over the course of this week, so we'll have plenty of time to talk about this, but it feels like it'd be remiss not just to touch upon Wimbledon quickly with Al Karaz. Like, can anyone beat him? And does he feel... We had this conversation yesterday in our rap show, Charlie, about before Roland Garros, we all picked Alcaraz as the favourite. We all, I think, picked that Alcaraz-Sinna final to happen or thought that was the single most likely scenario. But we said if one of them isn't going to get there, it's more likely to be Alcaraz because he's more susceptible to bumps along the road.

22:15And I personally don't feel that way about Alcaraz now. I feel like he's an incredibly strong favourite now for this Wimbledon title. And David, I think you said yesterday that he's the strongest favourite he's ever been for Wimbledon, including, of course, the last two years. Yeah.

22:39David Law: I don't know what you think about that, Charlie. I mean, when he came in two years ago, Djokovic was the favourite. And I remember feeling just beforehand that actually I think Alcraz has got a real chance. and then last year Al Kraz was the favourite but he wasn't playing like this. He wasn't coming into the event. Even though he'd won the French Open, it wasn't like this. No, I think that's right in theory. I do have a feeling he will have a flat performance and not win the tournament. I don't know where this has come from. I think it's because last year I thought the same. I think it's easy for him and a bit Djokovic to lull us into forgetting like how hard doing the French Open Wimbledon double actually is and so I think it's easy to be like oh well he did it last year of course he'll do it you know it's it's easy um it's really not like it's it's a really really historically difficult thing to do you know unless you're Bjorn Borg Nadal did it a couple of times Federer did it what once and Djokovic has done it a couple of times but it's really bloody hard and I just I just wonder if there will come a point at which you know he's played a huge amount um it's also very rare I think the Dow's done it to do the French Open Queens Wimbledon triple and I know partly that's not everyone plays Queens but it's a lot and I and I just wonder if there will come a point at which he I don't know it it just gets away from him like and and he has teetered on the brink you know obviously the French Open final he was he was basically off the brink you know he was so close to that edge but new definition of brink yeah like that is real brinkmanship um so yeah i i i think in theory you're right like he is because he's never cut you know yeah last year he was playing nowhere near this level um but that's just a feeling i have that um yeah that that there has to come a point at which she comes back down to earth that's a real cat amongst the pigeons david because Charlie's feelings do have a tendency to be...

24:43This is the guy that saw Marketa von Drosheva coming. No one's ever seen Marketa von Drosheva coming.

24:50David Law: Actually, do you see her? We can do that in part two. I mean, actually, who's picking up the pieces then, Charlie? Either Djokovic or Sinner. I mean, I haven't yet in this premonition I've had, I haven't yet seen who of those two will benefit. But I do also think, just to comparison with last year, yes, Alcaraz is in a far better shape himself. Novak Djokovic, I think, would also be in far better shape. I mean, bear in mind that Alcaraz's main two rivals last year for the title, Sinner got ill and lost in the quarters, so he didn't have to play Alcaraz in the semi. That was a nice little bonus.

25:29He played Medvedev instead. And then in the final, he played Novak Djokovic, who's a few weeks out from knee surgery and let's be honest it's a shadow of himself in that final the same Novak Djokovic by the way who beat him not long after in the French Open and there is a world in which Djokovic pulls out that performance at that year's Wimbledon we're saying holy heck like where did that come from well he did it in Paris and so I think Djokovic will be you know is in far better shape as well and I think Sinner even though yes he's coming off a huge disappointment I think he's got another year of Wimbledon grass and playing Wimbledon last year as like the Yannick Sinner we now know.

26:10So I think relatively speaking, his rivals are also in better shape. So, yeah, I think I would probably go Sinner to pick up the pieces just because that feels like the sensible choice, but I wouldn't rule out, you know, Novak having a run as well. Just quickly, I feel like we should give Yui Lahetska his flowers a bit before we move on. Because he is some grass court player. And, you know, he proved that over the course of the week and in the final, I think, against Carlos Alcaraz. I didn't realise, David, that he could do a lot of the things we saw him do at Queen's this week. I can, Matt reminded us early doors, I think, after his second win over Gabriel Diallo.

27:01You know, he beat Dominor, Handley, Diallo, Fernley, Draper, and then challenged Alcaraz in that final. But he had to miss the whole of the grass court season last year. He got injured in Madrid, had to skip the season. He has reached round four of Wimbledon before. And despite the fact that it feels like he's been around a long time, he is still a very young player. and this guy can play on grass. It looks to me like his best surface, David.

27:27David Law: Yeah, he actually looks like a specialist and yet he's adept on the other surfaces and I feel like we've yet to see the best of him because he keeps getting stopped when he's up and running because of a back injury or something like that. He's got a body that has broken down a lot and yet he came out onto this court and he just looked as though he'd been given extra impetus, as though this is a surface that really gels with his skill set. And he has this enjoyment of getting down low and living with the ball and absorbing power and redirecting it and getting into the net and showing hands that I didn't think he had.

28:12David Law: You know, his ability to take pace off a ball. I mean, one of the points late in that second set when he kind of dominated Alcrast from the baseline, as players can do, but then they come in on a shot and they hit a drop volley and you're like, oh my word, why have you done that? He's going to get to it and make you look a fool. But his touch was so good that he was able to do it without Alcrast getting there. And that's rare. He doesn't panic at the net. He's got good composure. And he was cracking down serves at 135, 138 regularly into the the sort of chest of opponents he's got a vicious flat body serve he had loads of aces you would not want to face this guy if he can maintain his fitness and maintain that sort of form he is weak to material yeah i have to say as well he's one of the first time i'd spoken to him was this week just gone to queens and he seems like a you know really nice guy thoughtful and you realize like you do um with a lot of players you because there are so many players that we follow you often have to make these fairly snap judgments based on not very much and so really to me this year he was the guy who Djokovic took out pretty comfortably at the Australian Open I remember feeling really disappointed by that match because I thought oh you know maybe this will be something and then you you know you kind of put that on the play and you'll be like oh gosh like you know you've ruined my night with this match that I thought was going to be good and then isn't and then obviously he got absolutely destroyed by Yannick Sinner Aronogaros and you kind of think oh okay well that's him which is so stupid obviously but you you know you kind of just distill things and then you see him have a run like this and he goes oh there's there's so much to his game and he is young he's a he's basically exactly the same age as Jack Draper they're they're born a month apart um but you know he is someone who I think because there was hype about when he was coming through maybe and then you write off a bit what I find interesting with him as well and this takes me back to when i used to do the predictions with you guys is that what would always happen what always happens before you resigned before i resigned because of people like yuri de hechka no but you'll have someone who has a run at queens or a grass court event and you know there'll be someone who's had a run at a queen a pre-wimbledon event who then does well at wimbledon and then there'll be another who crashes out in the first round will make you look really stupid and you just don't know who's going to be the one you know like yuri de hechka he could easily go and have a run at Wimbledon he could also go out first round and go what was Queens about?

30:46I know one of these will happen to one of these I just don't know which but he will be someone I'll be watching with interest because I agree with David no one's going to want to play him early on there aren't many people who look like they really appreciate and have a feel for the grass and he is one of them

31:03David Law: Charlie's gone with the Alcaraz as the guy to sort of have a good Queens and then just screw it up at Wimbledon. He'll be gone in the first round. How do we feel about Jack Draper after Queen's? He reached the semi-finals. By doing so, he secured number four seed at Wimbledon, which would mean he's guaranteed not to face Alcaraz or Sinner until the semi-finals. But getting to the semi-finals is a big ask for a guy that has never been past the second round at Wimbledon David and is suffering from tonsillitis. That's what he revealed after his loss to Uriah Lehechka not in an excuse-y way. I didn't get that vibe from him at all.

31:50He didn't come into the press conference room and say this is why I lost and actually I'd clocked that his voice hadn't sounded right all week and he had been suffering from it all week and battling through it. So there's positives there aren't there that that he was able to to win so much in spite of this this tonsillitis but it's it's a worry isn't it you know he's he's already got the hype to deal with and now he's got an illness as well and a and a disrupted preparation what do you think what's realistic

32:24David Law: to expect from him well i i really will be at pains not to expect him to live up to that seeding the fourth seeding and I feel like I'd like to think I would have felt like that regardless of the tonsillitis because I think it's a little a little harsh uh his his rise has been so meteoric really considering I would never have thought he would have been a top five player this time last year not yet you know maybe one day but but I thought it would take a while so it's it's something else that he's done this um this is going to sap his energy for a few days you would have thought and might end up impacting what he's able to do at Wimbledon and I do worry for his sort of state of mind and being happy to be out there and compete without worrying about this on top of all the expectations but fingers crossed that he can come through that.

33:21David Law: To me, if he gets into the second week, that is success. I would be perfectly happy to see him in that draw on Monday, second Monday, and whether he wins or loses that match or whether he wins and loses a quarterfinal, I think you've got to say that's decent and it's a good stepping stone from where he was. Yeah, I think it was, he was quite clear throughout the week he wasn't really playing his best. He definitely was aware of that and I think that's right. You know, all his matches were pretty close. some of them could have gone either way before the semi-final. And I think, yeah, to be playing with tonsillitis and in that heat on Saturday, it was tough.

34:06He kind of, it felt to me a bit like he did what he needed to do. And what he needed to do was get to the semi to get that top four seeding. He's also been at pain to say, let's not just assume I'm going to roll into the semi-final. There's a heck of a lot of tennis to be played before then. it will be really interesting and I'm working on a piece about being the guy at Wimbledon and the pressure that brings you know and I've spoken to people Is that just an excuse to try and speak to Greg? I did speak to Greg for the piece Catherine because Which year was he the guy? Well David, 98 he comes in as the number four seed having just had a breakthrough run at the US Open the year before.

34:52David Law: Is that the year he did his ankle? Exactly, against Tiedemans. He loves to talk about how he did his ankle. Well, I do remember it happening. And I was a big Greg fan at the time. I was gutted. And then that guy, was it Tiedemans? Is that how it's pronounced? Lawrence Tiedemans? Yeah. And then he beat Tim, as you mentioned, because that was the 98 year where everyone kind of went out. But he didn't, you know, Greg obviously didn't really get the chance to properly play because he played injured that year, went out in the first round. But Tim, I spoke to a lot about this. And you know what he said, which is interesting?

35:31He was like, we as the media, or at least now, we focus a lot on the downsides of the pressure and that element of it, which is part of it. But he's also like, it's also a huge advantage. And you look at most British players are elevated by playing at Wimbledon. And certainly, you know, he got to four semifinals here of his six career semis. And yes, slam semis. And yes, obviously, grass was also his best surface. But, you know, he rode that wave. And I think that's the key thing is can you harness that energy? But it is double-edged in a way because there is then a flatness if you are, if a crowd's there and right with you and then it's not really happening.

36:12Inevitably, then fans can get edgy and there is a bit of a letdown. um he's he seems to be pretty level-headed about it um but and so i don't think it will come down necessarily to you know if he does go out early or something like that i don't think it'll be like oh he couldn't handle the pressure i just think like there are a lot of really good players knocking around um and you know the way the men's draw is there is just the potential you meet someone like Bublik and he plays incredibly well and especially on grass you know you come up someone who has a good serving day but I think it's all there for him that the sense I get is you know to actually go and win the thing I think this year is probably a year too early but I think he'll be he'll be in that conversation in years to come if he's not already I mean I would put him probably as going by ranking anyway he's the fourth favorite I think he's somewhere below those the three at the top to actually be expected to go and win it.

37:16But yeah, I just hope he's healthy. That's the main thing. It would be a shame if he doesn't really get the chance to properly go for it this year. Yeah, absolutely. Just before we move on from Queen's reflections on the two weeks as a whole, obviously the first time since 1973 that it's been a two-week affair. I mean, the grass held up incredibly well. incredible credit to Graeme Kimpton, the head groundsman there, and his whole team that just made an absolute nonsense of all the worry and alarm expressed by the ATP when the women's event was announced about the shape that the grass would be in for the men after the women had had their way with it because it was two incredibly hot, challenging weeks and the grass was in pretty great shape yesterday for the men's final.

38:17I mean, there's the prize money disparity that leaves me very uncomfortable still, even more so given what a roaring success that women's event was. The total prize fund for the WTA event,$1.4 million, and that has been voluntarily increased by the LTA by a third, but the ATP prize fund is still more than a million more than that, £2.1 million versus£1.04 million, so double essentially. And the LTA have pledged equality on that front by 2029, but what yeah I think I think what that did as well now yeah but also that remark that um sort of served as a reminder of that huge disparity that exists outside of the biggest across the board because like the minimums that exist on the tours are so different and while though and if you have those then obviously that's gonna enforce what people do if they see a minimum then that affects where they think they should benchmark it.

39:31It was during the French Open, actually, the LTA confirmed that, this pledge to get it, you know, equal by 2029. But yeah, I mean, I think you look at other tournaments and there's still such huge disparities. And Queen's as well, the WTA event served a reminder because it was so vibrant and so well attended, just how many events aren't across the year. You know, it was actually quite striking in a way to see a 500 that did have, that was so packed out. and I think that's the benchmark. They should all be like that. And that was with, I think, 80%, more than 80 % of the WTA tickets sold and that was with them going on sale after the ATP event had sold out.

40:11So if you think of it as a finite amount of volume of demand, the ATP got to exploit all of that and sell out and then the WTA event got the rest. So I hope they go on sale at the same time this year. And yeah, look, good on the LTA for making up some of that. I do think it's a PR open goal for HSBC. Surely, surely. I mean, you're a bank, presumably you have money. I know it's great that they're sponsoring, you know, both events and supporting tennis and women's tennis and all of that. But even looking at it from a kind of mercenary marketing perspective, what an open goal to say we have put in the money to equal the prize money because that's the right thing to do.

41:05That's what I would do if I was head of marketing at HSBC. Hopefully they're listening. Right. We move on to Haller. and this is where, Charlie, you finally get the chance to talk about Alexander Bublik because we've got you down here as a Bublik guy. He's won the title 6-3, 7-6 over Daniel Medvedev in the final. Medvedev had a 6-0 head-to-head going into that final and, of course, earlier in the week, Bublik had beaten Yannick Sinner in the quarterfinal. 3-6, 6-3, 6-4. Sinner's first loss to someone other than Carlos Alcaraz since Cincinnati 2024 and his first loss to someone outside the top 20 since Cincinnati 2023.

41:53Coupled with the quarterfinal at Roland Garros, Charlie, is this some consistency from Alexander Bublik? Yeah, when I was in Paris and working on a piece on Bublik, I had a chat with his agent and manager. He's known him forever. They've been working together for a long, long time. And he was talking all about Alexander Bublik and how he is. Because I do find him a fascinating character, as I talked about on the Friends episode after the review show. It was one of my favourite stories of the tournament. But he said something. He was like, yeah, we've always thought he'd win Wimbledon eventually.

42:31And, you know, it was a kind of throwaway comment. But it's just like, and I'm not suggesting that's ever going to happen, but it just put this seed in my... The way he said it was just so like, as if that was like a really normal thing, as if that's something everyone in tennis has always said. But it was like, yeah, you know, we definitely think he's got that in him. And Wimbledon's always been the one they thought he'd be best suited to. And I think Bublik himself has talked about how, you know, the grass makes the most sense for him. So he's just suddenly kind of, I don't know, come from nowhere to just catapult himself into the conversation.

43:04And you talk about people no one would want to face. I'm sorry, there is no one who would want it, anywhere near their side of the draw. I mean, as Medvedev was saying in his post-match speech, which was really funny, hopefully you'll be on Alcaraz and Sinner's quarter or side and just, like, you know, wreak some havoc there. And I think that would be really fun. Who, like everyone else, would love to see him, you know, play a Sinner or a Djokovic or an Alcaraz kind of as early as possible. He's just, like, what's so unique about him, I think, is that he's got all the kind of dinky touch feel trick shots, but then a cannon of a serve.

43:43Like this is not Korentan Mute. This is not someone who's like, you know, doing all of that stuff, but then is underarm serving because he doesn't really have much of a serve. Like Bublik can underarm serve, but he's got a sort of Kyrios style underarm serve because people are kind of cowering behind the baseline because they know he can also bang them down at close to 140. so um he's he is a really interesting player and again just going back though that you hope he's not one of these guys who has sort of burnt himself out a bit by having a big grass court run on top of obviously that running out of score to final but i'm really really intrigued to watch him and you know often one talks about in sport kind of homogenization and lots of players playing the same way he does not like he plays his own way and uh and i i am he's going to be one of the names i'm looking out for in the wimbledon draw and he'll be seeded which yeah he will which which is a bit of a shame i have to say like yeah i'm pleased for him but that would have been hilarious wouldn't it imagine him as a floater yeah yeah imagine how relieved like all the seeds are in the draw that he's got himself acceding.

44:57I'm taking note of this David from the Vondroshova guy. Yeah

45:01David Law: you should. You know I do feel if you put me on the spot right now, I'll put myself on the spot I think Bublik is more likely to win Wimbledon than Jack Draper this year I mean I don't know either of them are going to win it but I think that You just think he could get hot? I think I agree with that. I don't think Draper's quite ready, and this tonsillitis, that is not ideal at all. And I think Draper's going to work his way in, and in three years, I think he's going to be a semi-finalist at worst, as long as he doesn't get injured. But I could see Bublik just cutting a swathe through this draw.

45:44David Law: I really could. or losing in the first round well yeah that's the thing i mean the thing with him is like he he has put it together he has been consistent but there really you think there is that potential he could suddenly lose interest in a match um and that that is kind of the risk with him obviously there's been less of that of late but he might and i do get the impression i do get the impression from what he's been saying after these breakthrough results that he's he's getting a taste for it isn't he like how how good and satisfying it feels to live up to his potential or certainly the externally perceived potential he keeps getting quite emotional he keeps having these quite profound moments doesn't he gave a really nice interview after winning yesterday in Halle revealed that after Wimbledon last year, he was very, very close to quitting tennis.

46:46And it was his coach that talked him into giving it a go. He said, look, if you need to take a couple of months off, then so be it. Just don't do anything rash. But I think, like to David's point earlier about with Alcaraz realising that hard work, as kind of unsexy as it is, Like for someone like Bublik, more hard work and everything like that gives you more of a platform to do the fun stuff. Like, you know, the fitter you are, the more, the better you're going to be in position to hit a drop shot through your legs. Like that's, that's kind of how it works. And he, he does. Yeah, he does look like he's got a bit of a taste for it.

47:26Cause I asked him after the Draper match, you know, I was like, yes, you don't want to be sacrificing everything, but does, you know, he just come off court, said it was like the best moment of his life. I was like, does this kind of give you the taste for it? And he actually, he kind of picked me up because I said like, you know, it might lead to more moments like this. And he was like, well, that's the key word, might. Like there's no guarantee. But I imagine he is having a lot of fun, you know, and he's still being true to himself. He's still kind of playing in a very inventive, creative way.

47:59So, yeah, it's going to be interesting. you do wonder as well whether he's a little bit, maybe this is unfair, but if it feels a little bit now or never, maybe, and that he's so riding the crest of this wave, it's kind of like, don't stop. Don't think about it. Just keep doing what you're doing because you never know when. Don't listen to the fact that David Law has just made an outlandish prediction. Don't be this tournament's Fonseca.

48:26David Law: It's your fault, Catherine. Push me into it. Right, that's it for part one. And we'll be back in part two to talk about Marketa Vondrosheva with the Marketa Vondrosheva. Hello, folks. This is Catherine from The Tennis Podcast. Now, creatine, as you very well may know, is one of the most researched and effective supplements available. But you've also probably noticed that the category has exploded and most of the many brands out there have focused on flavours, formats and marketing instead of actually making the creatine itself better. That's why Momentus created Signature Spec creatine, their most advanced creatine ever, setting a new standard for creatine quality.

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51:22Welcome back to part two of the tennis podcast where we head to Berlin now and Monketa Vondrosheva popping up and saying hi. She's won the title. She's beat Wong Jin Yu 7-6, 4-6, 6-2 in the final. She also beat, settle in for this list of players, folks, Madison Keyes, Diana Schneider, Hans Jeper and Irina Sabalenka en route to that final. One of Matt's dormant volcanoes has erupted. Charlie, did you see it coming? Oh, God, no. Not at all. I mean, she seemed like she was maybe getting back to being, you know, someone who could just play matches. And that was itself a bonus after the injury she's had.

52:14But no, I didn't see this run coming. And I have to say, I would... When someone's had such serious injuries, I don't know, I always just kind of treat them with care a little bit. Even off the back of this, I still wouldn't have big expectations going into Wimbledon. And sorry if that's kind of dampening people's excitement about this run. Just because, you know, we've seen it with Karolina Mukhova a bit as well. Like, you know, she had that US Open run. It was kind of like, oh, great, she's back. It's like, doesn't always work like that. You know, I think it's not always linear when you're coming back from an injury like this.

52:47There'll be ups, there'll be some downs. And I'm just so pleased that she had this up because honestly, like, I wouldn't have necessarily thought, I wouldn't have thought when this was going to happen. I still would have thought there was an if about whether she was going to be able to come back and play this level of tennis. And, you know, you think back to last year, she went out in the first round at Wimbledon and, you know, as the defending champion and just how upsetting that was for her, clearly, as, you know, as it would be for anyone. And yeah, just an amazing turnaround from then. But I wouldn't necessarily expect it to translate to a deep run at Wimbledon.

53:22Yeah, it's almost like she's wasted her eruption. Kind of, yeah. In Berlin. You've gone two weeks too soon. The win over Sabalenka, David, was a real reminder of how that kind of player can be a problem for Sabalenka. And obviously Vondreshev is an elite version of that kind of player. She's a Wimbledon champion, particularly on this surface. But it was, I don't know, I found that match really interesting from a Sabalenka perspective.

53:55David Law: And a reminder as well of how the very top women in the world have less time to turn matches around at Grand Slams because there isn't a best of five set format. I do think there are, throughout history, a lot of players that have maybe been derailed over the best of three that wouldn't have been had they been able to have the full format, full Grand Slam format. But yes, I do think Sabalenka in particular and this type of player in particular, yeah, this is where it can get messy. Because Vondroshofer can just do things that the others can't. She can use the pace against you. She can turn it around on you in different angles.

54:41David Law: And she in the final, for instance, was struggling, I feel like, because she was the favourite almost, and she was expected to make the play. And she managed to kind of get the win, but it was after that incredible run to get to the final, it was looking very dicey. I mean, I think she was 6-2 down in the first set of tiebreak before she turned that around and won. um but yeah i i i do find sabalanka fascinating because of what's happened in the last six weeks or so getting to the final being so unsporting in her comments afterwards and getting a lot of stick for it and and now her sort of rowing back on it or at least apologizing for it does this affect her does this does this make her play a little win in herself perhaps at the wimbledon which I never thought of that she would ever do.

55:35David Law: But I think there might be something in that that it inhibits her a little bit. Yeah, she really, really has rode back on those post-match comments from Roland Garrison. Good on her for doing this. She told Eurosport Germany, it was completely unprofessional of me. I let my emotions get the better of me. I absolutely regret what I said. We all make mistakes. I'm just a human being who's still learning in life. I think we all have those days when we lose control. But what I also want to say is that I wrote to Coco afterward, not immediately, but recently. She said, I never intended to attack her.

56:13I was super emotional and not very smart at that press conference. I'm not necessarily grateful for what I did. It took me a while to go back and think about it, to approach it with open eyes and to understand. I realised a lot about myself. Why do I lose so many finals? and she said I kept getting so emotional I learned a lot above all one thing I'm the one who always treats my opponents with respect whether I whether I win or lose without that respect I wouldn't be where I am today so it was tough but very valuable lesson for me I mean good on her for for really owning owning it the way she has but exactly as you say David those those comments are an indicator of how kind of profoundly this has made her think.

57:01And I don't know, what do you think, Charlie? There could be a hangover for Wimbledon or she could definitely, definitely win the title. Yeah, I mean, she's obviously, she does go in as the favourite. I think it's interesting with these, I was just thinking about more generally with the kind of rivalries and having an edge between players in the kind of social media edge. I feel like that's kind of been blunted in a way, which is a bit of a shame. Like I feel, I don't, you know, I think what Sabalenka did wasn't right after the final, but I also think players should be able to do that without such fear of a social media backlash that everyone basically ends up saying the same thing.

57:44And like, I was thinking back, you know, Federer was about Djokovic, was often fairly similar to this. Like if you look at what he says after that, when Djokovic beats him in the 2011 US Open semi and he saves the match points, Federer basically says, yeah, he swung and got lucky on match point. Like, it's pretty graceless stuff, but it's pre... If he did that now, he'd have been so jumped on and he then would have had to issue an apology probably on a notes app on Twitter and it would all been a big thing. And it's just like, I don't know, I think having an edge is great. It hooks people into the sport.

58:22And it's good that Sablenk has done this and I'm sure it's done, you know, she believes it and whatever. But like, I do think we should also allow rivalries to develop where there can be a bit of spikiness. Because if you look at tennis at the moment, there isn't really any, at least publicly, in the rivalries. And I think that really does add something. So I don't know. I just think it's, yeah, people should be able to vent and be emotional after these hugely emotional matches and not get, you know, but they are inevitably going to get so condemned by so many people that they then will roll back on them.

59:02So I just think it'll be interesting to see what happens. I just really hope these two play again in a final soon and we can see how that plays out. I think there still will be some spice there. I hope so. don't you think i mean like yeah and i'm not i'm not trying to like push artificial spice or aggro but i just think people want to see people being authentic and if being authentic is i'm pissed off because i've lost and i don't think i should have lost then i'm all for that yep me too i'm here for aggro i would say that maria saccharine yulia putin saver have done you a bit of a favor this weekend on the aggro front.

59:42Elena Rabakina managed to lose four match points in a row in that match against Irina Sabalenka. That was pretty extraordinary. You saw that, David, I think?

59:53David Law: Yeah, it's one of those where I'm trying to work out, is it good news for Rabakina that she got to four match points against Irina Sabalenka or is it bad news because she then lost them? It's probably both, isn't it? It's a big surprise to think that she'd get to that position and not seal one of them with her game um i i do find her fascinating as well we talk about von drossova for obvious reasons because she's just won this title but you've got this wimbledon champion whose game is just so perfectly suited to grass more suited to it probably even sabalenka and we're not talking about her that much because she's she's not done anything for such a long time but she absolutely could come out there and win the thing I mean it's only last year that going into the semi-finals she seemed like the massive favorite of the four players left and was a set up against Krychikova and I remember at that point being like she's cruising to the final she's got she would be she would have been the big favorite against Paolini in the final and then again a bit like the best of three thing you're saying you know it just suddenly flick of a switch she kind of got broken out of nowhere in the second set and then the third set ran away from her and that was it um but she was right there But yeah, I mean, I do also think I can see why it's hard to kind of pick her as a favourite just because there isn't really in the year since much of an evidence base to do that.

1:01:23You're kind of going on what's come before, which can be a good indicator, but it's a tricky one with her. Wang Jin Yu, by the way, the beaten finalist, she beat Daria Kazekina, Coco Goff, Paola Bedossa, Lyudmila Samsonova. fantastic week for her I think she's 33 in the live ranking so she should get a seeding at Wimbledon and she's 23 years old and so which makes her of the age group that was effective at an extremely formative critical time by Covid and that applies I think even more to Chinese players who just stopped travelling altogether didn't they they so many of them just their careers were just totally curtailed at that point for a year or so.

1:02:14So I feel like we're only now just starting to see the capabilities of Wong Jin Yu. So an incredible week for her. Be interesting to keep an eye on her at Wimbledon. Could go deep, could win first round. Could lose first round, rather. Just quickly heading to Nottingham, the WTA 250 there. Speaking of players who have secured themselves a Wimbledon seeding, McCartney Kessler has done that by winning the title, beating Diania Stremska 6-4, 7-5 in the final. A lot of tough three-set wins. She beat Beatrice Adajma in the first round, beat two-time defending champion Katie Bolter in the quarterfinals.

1:02:56She's firmly in the category, Kessler, of players that nobody is going to want to face at Wimbledon, Charlie. Yeah, I mean, Haddad Shmaa was the number one seed for the event. And like you say, Katie Bolter was going for a third title in a row. So, I mean, that was a big win. Yeah, I mean, I haven't seen loads of her, I have to say. She's not a player I know particularly well, but she's another one I will be looking out for in the Wimbledon draw. And I'm curious to see more and see how her kind of game matches up to the grass, because it obviously does. There obviously is something that happens.

1:03:29you're where David was at the time of our end of year quiz last year and he called her Meredith Meredith what was it?

1:03:38David Law: Schofield. Meredith Schofield. I knew who she was I knew that she's good I couldn't remember her name so I went with Meredith Schofield as opposed to McCartney Kessler and she's forever going to be known as Meredith to me and I'm very proud of her very proud to see Meredith doing so well and actually I felt for her when she didn't beat Junction Wen at Queen's the other week and she was playing so well she got to 4-1 in the third and couldn't quite get it over the line but yeah she's a bit like Le Hetchke you know the game makes sense on the surface and you can see the eyes widening and her thinking this is my big chance I mean this is my surface but you know.

1:04:25What an unusual way to develop a sort of affection for a tennis player by totally skewering their name. Well there's like a guilt that exists there isn't there? I need to repay this person, I feel bad. Right, that's it for part two, we'll be back in part three with some news from the tennis world this week and it's been quite a news heavy week, we'll see you in part three.

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1:05:41Ready to talk with an expert? Visit Bill.com slash proven to get started and grab a$150 gift card as a thank you. Terms and conditions apply. See offer page for details. Welcome back to part three of the tennis podcast, where we now turn our attention to New York and the U.S. Open and their mixed doubles tournament. Now, we knew that they had these big plans to revamp the tournament, make it a two-day event with 16 pairs, eight getting in via their combined singles ranking, and then eight getting in via wild cards. So a perceived total diss to doubles players. Lots of them spoke out about it at the time of this announcement.

1:06:33Andrea Vavasori and Sara Irani, the reigning mixed doubles champions at the US Open, most prominently spoke out kind of on the doubles side of things. But it caused a lot of consternation in the doubles specialist world and really, really set the cat amongst the pigeons as a very radical thing to do. Well, this week, the US Open announced the teams that have entered. Now, this isn't the final list of who will actually make up the draw for the mixed doubles. The entries close on July the 28th. So there's still quite a long time to go. And at that point, it'll be those top eight teams that get in automatically.

1:07:21So essentially, this is a kind of headline grabbing thing, I assume, to start selling some tickets. It's giving Craig Tiley and his big entry list announcement at the Australian Open. But you've got to say mission accomplished in terms of the headline grabbing. In terms of what they want to achieve, they are doing it. These are the teams that have entered, if you haven't already seen. Hold on to your hats, folks. Emma Navarro and Yannick Sinner. What a bizarre week Yannick Sinner has had. Released a classical single with Andrea Bocelli and announced a partnership with Emma Navarro. Jung Chin Wen and Jack Draper.

1:08:11Jessica Bergula and Tommy Paul. Jasmine Paolini and Lorenzo Mazzetti. Elena Rabacchner and Taylor Fritz. Mira Andrava and Daniel Medvedev. Yeah, because the Olympics went so well. Madison Keyes and Francis Tiafoe. Irina Sabalenka and Grigal Dimitrov. Paola Bedossa and Stefano Sitsipas. Emma Radikarnou and Carlos Alcaraz. Belinda Bencic and Alexander Zverev. Olga Danilovic and Novak Djokovic. Taylor Townsend and Ben Shelton. Sara Rani and Andrea Vavasori, bless them throwing their hats in the ring. And Nick Kyrgios. I bet they'll be getting a World Cup. And Naomi Osaka.

1:08:59Lots to take in, folks.

1:09:04David, I'm going to go to you first in your stony face. Say what you need to say.

1:09:11David Law: It's not the mixed doubles championship of the US Open, is it? That's what it's not. Don't try and tell me it is. Sounds fun, though. I'll be watching. and I'll be talking to them, and I'll be wanting to know all about it, and we'll be talking about it. And, you know, I start to think as you're reeling off that list of names, what they should actually do, if they really want to, if tennis wants to go down this route, and I understand why they would, just make all doubles like this then. Just stop having double specialists. Stop doing it. Just make it so that you have a ranking that incorporates doubles and that players have got to play singles and doubles, or they can't play.

1:09:52David Law: You know, and then you could... I suspect the US Open, if it were in charge of all of tennis, would be up for that. But, you know, we've got these seven different jurisdictions that... I just feel like, you know, just sticking one in in the middle of the tournament and saying this is your mixed doubles championship and trying to get people to really take that seriously. It's an exhibition. They've been doing it for the last couple of years, this kind of mixed madness or whatever they call it. And it's fun. Great. And actually, they have sold this really well. And I do want to watch it. But it's just not the mixed doubles championship of the tournament because, well, where's your history?

1:10:32David Law: And I don't mind if they just were to draw a line and just say, yeah, we're just not doing that anymore because that was rubbish. And in fact, we're not going to do any of this doubles anymore because who's ever heard of these people? Who wants to watch these people? I'm sure that I'm not saying that on a personal note. I mean, I do find doubles still entertaining to watch and I respect these people that are playing it. But if you really want to do it, just go all in. But the counter to that, David, is in order to get the top players playing, it has to be a really short format. It has to be guaranteed only two days.

1:11:08There has to be a guarantee. I'm sure these top players are getting a handsome check to commit to playing this. it has to be something that is guaranteed not to interfere with their singles, right? So it's a tension between those two things. Well, these Masters 1000s are long enough, aren't they?

1:11:30David Law: You could definitely fit them into that. Charlie, what do you think? It's a really good talking point because it brings together so many of the kind of tensions that exist within tennis and I guess any enterprise right now. You know, it's like, do we just, what are we led by? You know, do we, in a way, do we just give the public what they want? And really what the public want is the biggest names playing more. Like that is, you know, so do we just double down and just cater to that? And at what cost? I mean, because, you know, there is an element to which a lot of the people who are up in arms about the mixed doubles.

1:12:11Well, how much of the mixed doubles US Open did you watch last year? did you see any of it and yes they might say well yes i'd have loved to but it wasn't broadcast or whatever but there is a lack of interest really and and there is something like there is something very potent about men and women playing sport together and that is a usp of tennis that often is lost like there's no doubt it is really cool like watching you know remember like the hotman cup and there was fed that picture of federer and serena and it kind of broke the internet and all of that like there is there is rich potential definitely to tap into and yeah we probably don't do it i i see david's point that you know maybe there's a middle ground and you know this exists as a kind of exhibitiony thing like it previously has and you still have an actual mixed doubles event and there are victims here those doubles players because bearing in mind as well like for them it's a decent chance of earnings a lot of these players aren't earning you know stupid sums instead what we're doing is saying no we're going to put a million pound prize but plus as you say appearance fees whatever to these players who are already making a fortune but is that just what you know is that just capitalism is that what we want you know ultimately a lot of the people i imagine who are feel instinctively anti this are also going to really enjoy watching carlos Sal Karaz playing with Emma Raducanu or some of those partnerships you've mentioned.

1:13:40And it is going to get people talking about the sport. So I do feel quite conflicted about it. And I don't know where it goes. I mean, I guess as well, they would say, you know, no, this isn't, you know, we've still got the men's doubles and the women's doubles. We still absolutely respect doubles as a discipline. It's just this one kind of bonus tournament, which, you know, one could argue has, you know, isn't like a super serious event. Yes, it's important, but we're not talking about players really inciting their mixed doubles records very often. It's already fairly low down the food chain, I suppose would be their argument.

1:14:17Yeah, and if this is a big success, that could kind of, by relativity, diminish the other two doubles tournaments, right? You're going to have a full stadium watching Raducanu and Alcaraz versus Keyes and Tiafoe in the final. And then on come Nils Kubski and Joe Salisbury. Like, it's just going to look totally lacklustre by comparison. Is there a chance, and I'm sure people will shout this down, but is there a chance that it lifts doubles? A rising tide raises all votes. Yeah, and I'm not saying I believe that necessarily, but in a kind of like people watching like yeah doubles is great why don't we watch more doubles um because doubles is like that's the thing it is doubles can be so good to watch um and you know it's what a lot of people play and so there's a relatability element that you know maybe there isn't with singles but um but we're talking about like you know it's gonna be it will be a big talking point um yeah and it will be then interesting to see yeah do any of the other slabs follow suit in any way or is it just i suspect if this they'll be looking at the balance sheets of this very closely i don't think wimbledon would ever do it but they don't have the same financial their financial equations are very different to the other three slams so at the moment they have a third week so right exactly so i i think paris and particularly australia i'd imagine will be looking very closely at this and treating uh the u.s open as the canary down the mine.

1:15:54I'm with you, Charlie, I'm conflicted. And I've surprised myself a bit with my reaction to this, because when these changes were first unveiled sort of in the abstracts, conceptually, I was totally with you, David. I was really grumpy about it and the trashing of history and the ripping away of integrity from it all. And then when they made this announcement, I was really into it. I'm really into it. Like it got my attention. I am. I'm into all the plots. I've raised all the eyebrows that everybody on the Internet has raised. I was very into Emma Raducani showing up to watch her doubles partner, Carlos Algaraz on Saturday at Queens.

1:16:41I'm very into how on earth Emma Navarro and Yannick Sinner came about, what Jung Chin Wen and Jack Draper is going to look like as a partnership, Andreeva and Medvedev getting the band back together. I am I'm really, really into it. And I've been having the same thoughts about what you were saying, Charlie, about how criminally undermined the the potential for women, men and women playing together. It is in tennis like it is. it's pathetic really how little tennis maximises the potential there. Just look at the Olympics last year and the amount of excitement around the doubles and in particular the mixed doubles.

1:17:37And I suppose part of that is novelty value. Like if it happened week in, week out, it would be a bit less exciting. But I still think the potential for the interactions and dynamics and dynamics and all the rest of it. I'm really, really excited by that. Andy and Serena, 2019 was huge. Absolutely, a real celebration of this huge USP that tennis has of, I'm not going to say equality because, as we've discussed earlier in the show, there's a long way to go there, but something far closer to equality and union than really any other sport has going on. And I'm really excited by that. I wish there was a way they could have done this while preserving some more integrity of the competition and of the meaning of that trophy and the meaning of those names going on the honour roll.

1:18:33But the problem is I don't have the answer to that because I do think to get the big names playing, it has to be a really diminished format because tennis is too demanding now. They are not going to take any risk with their singles. So I share your concern about integrity, David, but I don't have a solution. And I cannot deny my feelings.

1:19:06David Law: I genuinely want to know what happens to last year's champions, whether they get to go in it, whether they get given a wild card. I suspect politically they'll be given a wild card. I think if they could put if they had a but are they going to get let's say what about the beaten finalists last year, what about the semi-finalists you can just imagine that Nick Kyrgios is going to get a wild card ahead because at the moment Osaka and Kyrgios aren't anywhere near getting in on the basis of their ranking Kyrgios isn't a tennis player and I continue to find it incredibly disappointing how Naomi Osaka is prepared to be used to launder the Nick Kyrgios reputation.

1:19:48But I think the USCA are going to give them a wild card. I just think, yeah, I do think it's difficult. I mean, it's kind of like computer gaming. It reminds me of like on old computer games, you just pick like totally random pairings out of curiosity and it would be like, this is great fun. What are you trying to say about Elena Rabachner and Taylor Fritz, Charlie? Are you saying they're not mates? they've actually played together in a pre-US Open thing last year they've probably got more experience than a lot of these pairs but yeah like Draper Jung I mean that's it's just that's such a curious one but it is you know and to younger people who you know are used to gaming and this sort of thing I think it will be a lot of fun and I do think you know players reveal elements of themselves in these kind of pairings and you know and that will it will get it casuals are going to be interested in this and i do think it's hard to be too sanctimonious about it when only speaking for myself i have what i watch zero mixed doubles like i do so i feel a little bit and i think that's true of a lot of people who are criticizing it like it's one thing if you're saying like how can you take this away from me like i love them but it's like that's just not really the case like surely there's a middle ground though charlie surely you can you can

1:21:08David Law: make it more fun and stick more singles players in it without just making it this? I would like to think so, but none of us have a proposal for that, do we? I certainly don't. Have I been asked? I'm asking you. I haven't got time to tell you about it right now. I'm sure I could come up with something different to a two-day exhibition with 16 teams, eight of which are wild cards. That is not a tennis tournament. I mean, even a middle ground would be to say, OK, we're going to do eight of the pairs are based on singles ranking, eight of the pairs are based on doubles rankings. That would feel like a sort of compromise.

1:21:46David Law: Charlie sorted it. And there'd still be, I'm sure... And then there'd be the spice of all those doubles players with something to prove. A bit like in the Olympics last year when, you know, Nadal and Algraz got taught a bit of a doubles lesson. It was by Krejcik and Ram, I think, wasn't it? And I did find that really interesting. there were quite a few of those pairings that popped up it was like the singles guys and it would get rid of nick kyrgios sign sign me up yeah okay great um yeah okay well look the the proof will be in the pudding won't it i suspect they're selling tickets and the thing is like they'll rarely i feel once you've crossed a rubicon like this you really then go back in a Genies don't go back in bockers, do they?

1:22:34Yeah, it just will be, it will sell more tickets.

1:22:37David Law: That's the thing, they've gone so far, so immediately. There is no, there's no way you can say, actually, you know what, next year we're going to do the eight doubles teams and the eight singles teams thing. Yeah, admitting fault or error or having gone too far isn't very in fashion at the moment, is it, particularly in America. But it's a bit like as well with media coverage, and I'm so grateful, like for the New York Times, the Athletic, we do cover such a wide range because our readers seem to genuinely be curious about the wideness and the depth of the sport. But, you know, increasingly publications, if you say to them, you know, do you want to write a story about a couple of doubles players or do you want to write a story about big name X does teeny thing Y, the latter is always going to get more views.

1:23:26So you're going to, and then you'll get that positive feedback. You're going to keep doing that. And it kind of feels a little, you know, it's like, that's why I think it's interesting because we're seeing that, and not just in sport, but in all areas of the media, you know, it's narrower and narrower and narrower. And this is kind of an extension of that. But then you're like, well, shouldn't you just give the people what they want? And, you know, there's no right answer here. It's very complicated. The people have been given what they want, Charlie, and the world is burning, so. Yeah. There is that.

1:24:02There is that. Can't trust democracy. Totally unrelated to the world burning. Yannick Sinner and Andrea Bocelli releasing a single. Charlie, your reaction to this and the video and the... Well, I'm glad it was trailed. Or maybe I'm not, because if I'd just seen it without the kind of trailer the day before, just to see it cold... You just thought the world had ended and we were in the twilight zone. I thought it was some sort of weird fever dream. But, you know, good luck to him. Yeah, good luck to them both. A couple of other bits of news from this. I'm having to do some real like the one show segues here.

1:24:51Petra Govitova has announced that she will retire at the US Open. she will continue playing over the summer she says she doesn't know exactly what her hard court schedule will look like leading up to the US Open but that will be her final tournament she's received a wild card into Wimbledon so she will get to play one last Wimbledon David when we were talking about this announcement on one of our tennis channel shows Matt made the point that there's a strong case to be made that Petra Kovitava is the best player never to be number one

1:25:27David Law: yeah I think it was a very good very well made point because she got so close to it so many times a match away and won two Wimbledons was one of those players that the very best in the world hadn't no answer to really unless it was Serena Williams really everybody else suffered at the hands of Petra Govitova when she was on I won't forget the way she beat Eugenie Bouchard in that second of her Wimbledon finals. It wasn't even a contest because Kvitova was so good. And then to make such an extremely good performance in the rest of her career, despite that awful attack that she suffered in her own home, where she had her hand sort of cut so badly that she lost all feeling and sensitivity in her hand.

1:26:18David Law: I mean, absolutely astonishing that she managed to make a comeback from that. And yeah, great career. yeah and an incredibly nice person as well incredibly popular player and just to put into context as well something i worked out channeling my inner matt here since 96 she's the only multiple wimbledon champion whose surname isn't williams on the women's side so just to put into context how rare it is to actually wow do what she did because wimbledon has been so apart from the williams sisters been so kind of wildly inconsistent and i think people I certainly when she that that Bouchard match David references that's 2014 final you watch that and you're kind of like how anyone beat her on grass she's just phenomenal I mean she was just destroying the ball and that whole run I think she lost only a set that whole tournament um just incredible I think the number one thing as well maybe is fitting in some ways because she was she was never like a sort of just reliably consistent player like she had this incredible top level but she could all i mean talk about like predictions busters good god petra govita for some of those you just be like is she winning the thing or is she going out in the first round yeah we're to record emergency podcasts because of her so like uh yeah i feel somehow oddly appropriate she never quite got the number one which is such like a kind of hallmark of consistency and always always bringing it yeah yeah it's a great point um we also had the news this week that uh Pam Shriver is no longer going to be part of the Donna Vekic coaching teams coaching teams she said one of the greatest experiences I've had in my 50 plus years in tennis has been helping coach donna vekic since october 2022 here in la it's been a challenging year therefore i need to lean even more into my community and my family's well-being i'm stepping down from team dv um which is sad to see but i'm i'm glad pam is focusing on herself and if she does coach again then somebody is going to be very very lucky to have her in their coaching box that is for sure.

1:28:37And one last one show style segue from me, Charlie, on the news front. I just wanted to touch upon your piece from last week about online abuse of tennis players because it's something that's been quite a lot in the news over here in the UK because Britain's Katie Bolter has spoken out about it. And you did a piece in The Athletic which was very interesting headline why online abuse of tennis players led to law enforcement investigations in in 2024 15 cases were considered so threatening that they were escalated to to law enforcement agencies last year yeah and bear in mind as well like there are some big numbers um in the wta and icf's report but that's still only really scratching the surface because there's so much stuff that goes on and goes unchecked and doesn't necessarily get picked up on by um the software they have and by the people involved because it's just it's such a big problem and just to give a sense of like how long this has been going on for i remember in in january 2018 i did a big report on social media abuse so that's what seven and a half years ago and i really see very little check reading back that piece and looking at the conversations we're having now really so little has changed and and well if anything you know social media as we know and certainly certain platforms have got a lot more toxic and and the thing that's really scary i guess is that we've seen a little bit of the social the online world crossing into the physical world like in the yagish fiontech miami incident and that you know there were kind of posts from the person involved kind of war you know that talking in a very hostile way towards her um and and it you know and and so often what you're what you'll hear is we'll be like we'll just go off social media don't use social media and it's like these people need social you know we're not like yes if you're if you're a top top player of course you've got the luxury jack draper basically says i don't go on social media he can afford to you know he's one of the best players in the world He's got huge endorsement deals, people who can run his socials, et cetera.

1:30:58If you're a jobbing player where every dollar is important, you can't just go off it because you need it to promote yourself and to try and get deals and endorsements. You're all competing with other people. So it's not as simple. I'm sure most people, we've all probably been there. You'd love to just not use it. But there are times when you're like, I wish I didn't have to. But you need to promote yourself. That's all part of the game. And it's just a shame that doing that with a big shame comes with this huge cost. And I think it's hard to really comprehend. And obviously you get desensitized to an extent, but just every match, every defeat, you know.

1:31:38And even like Paguda said it as well, she said even turning off mentions and ability to interact with her, she still then sees it coming on her newsfeed. And I think that's got worse as well, especially X is now who you follow seems to be almost irrelevant. You're still just getting served up all this stuff. And I'm sure it's the way the algorithm works. Obviously, if people are talking about you, you're far more likely to see it. So it's this hugely intractable problem that tennis and society has grappled with for a long time. And that tennis and sport is implicated in because of the way it's embraced gambling, betting, because so much of this abuse is coming from people that have lost money betting on their matches.

1:32:28Yeah. And tennis is a sport that is better on a huge amount. You know, it's right up there. And you can understand, you know, there's always matches going on. There are little things within matches you can bet on. there's so much to it um and yeah i remember from the piece i referenced from a few years ago some of the players were saying that they were like how can there be betting sponsorships and things like how can we be complicit in this basically what you know that we're then just getting abused from these people i think you know that's that area of it's maybe improved a little bit like i think there's slightly fewer of those things it's slightly visible but um yeah it's it's really sad and yeah Katie I'd recommend reading the well brace yourself but you know Katie Bowles' interview with the BBC is really sobering and not extraordinary in any way that's what's so sobering about it This week while we were on air yesterday David commentating on the Queen's final I got a notification from the Wimbledon referees office that an order of play was out for Wimbledon.

1:33:43Yeah. Because qualifying is about to start. Wimbledon is about to start. Are we ready? Do you feel ready, David?

1:33:51David Law: Oh, yeah. Let's do it. I can't wait. We've had Artifice and Kaspar Rood both withdraw from Wimbledon. No great surprise. But needs must. It's a relief, though, isn't it? that Artifice has withdrawn, I think. Yeah, he needs to have probably two or three months off and just sort this out. We have events this week. There's a WTA 500 in Bad Homburg. Incredibly strong field there. Jessica Pegula, Jasmine Paulini, Mira Andreeva and Iger Sviantek are the top four seeds. Round ones include Emi Navarro against Marta Kostiuk. Donna Vekic has drawn Dennis Schneider for the second week in a row. Aleksandr Bencic.

1:34:38P.S. Bencic is going to be unseeded at Wimbledon. And Svitolina against Mertens. In fact, didn't I see Svitolina has already beaten Elisa Mertens? Tennis is just always happening. I think I woke up to an alert that Svitolina had beaten Mertens. And we've already had some spectacular aggro from Sakary and Putin Saver. Would anybody like to comment on Zachary's Lucas Russell, Andy Murray inspired, nobody likes you? All for it. I mean, you know, all for, like I said, just all for the authenticity. And handshakes is such a weird thing. Like, I love it. It's such a good thing about tennis, but like, God, there must be times you're like, I really don't want to have to do this.

1:35:26But it's just so great that we have it as a way of being like, right, there's been tension, there's been aggro, go on, go and speak to one another right at the end of the match. just prodding them towards falling out with one another. Yeah, I mean, this was... Sakharin crossed the net to go over to Putin's saver and say, what was that you just said? It was a bit kind of Medvedev-Sitsipas, Miami 2018. I mean, Artur Feest as well, like, it's a shame because he's had a few kind of aggro-y handshakes. Not to say he's been to blame David, of course, but...

1:36:00David Law: No, usually it's been Alexander Zverev. Well, there is that, yeah. But, yeah, I do think it's one of the many micro great things about tennis that you have to do this. Yeah, well done, Maria Zachary, for giving us that joy. We've got a WTA 250 in Eastbourne this week. Dario Kazekina, Emma Raducanu, she plays today. Yelena Ostapenko, Barbora Krojcikova and Onsja Burr are all in the draw in Eastbourne and the WTA side. And there's also an ATP 250. Taylor Fritz, Jakob Mensik, Ugo Ember, Tommy Paul are the top four seeds. And there's an ATP 250 in Mallorca. Ben Shelton, Felix Orgelia, Seam, Talon Greekspour and Alex Mickelson are the top four seeds.

1:36:50How can there be that much tennis happening in the week leading up to Wimbledon? Plus Wimbledon qualifying and draws and media day. Like it's so much. And Matt's gone to see Bruce Springsteen in Spain. I do think there is a, like we talk about those two-week Masters in the clay court season. It can feel like a kind of sparsity of things sometimes because they're just kind of dragging on. The grass court season is so like intense and there's so much going on. And at the start of the day, you're checking like four different tournament order of plays to try and kind of keep on top of everything. but it is great these few weeks.

1:37:30Yeah, it's brilliant but I also don't blame Matt for checking out for a couple of days and going to put his Basque beret on. In terms of our plans this week, we have got a Wimbledon Relived coming your way on Wednesday and it is focusing on, David? The 90s! The 90s! 1995 Wimbledon! Some of the press clippings, Charlie, that Matt has been sending through from the Wimbledon Library from 1995 are so extraordinary. And a lot of them are Ruzetski related. I am so pumped for this. Can I send you an additional press clipping? One of my first ever, I mean, I want to say articles, inverted commas, aged, what would have been, eight, I think?

1:38:18I found this recently. I'd written, we had to do like a creative writing story. and my story was that I was playing tennis with a friend and then I need to check, I'll check this and then we were watching the Wimbledon final and then we got sucked into the TV and we're playing the Wimbledon final. I think I'm Sampras, my friend's Becca and it then just turns into a quite boring sort of blow-by-blow account of the Wimbledon final as imagined by an eight-year-old me. But I'll dig it out and send it to you and yeah, you can add it to your clippings from Wimbledon 95. Add it to the article where Greg Rzeski reveals that he starts the day with 16 Weetabix.

1:39:01I can't top that. Honestly, the 90s were wild. That was my first ever Wimbledon. I'm so looking forward to listening to you. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it as well. That is recording on Wednesday and we'll be up Wednesday for Friends of the Tennis Podcast. Thursday, we have our live show at Shoreditch Town Hall, 7pm, an incredible venue, an incredible evening. We really are excited. Last few tickets are available. We'll put the link in our show notes. I'll put it on Instagram if you'd like to come along. We would love to see you. Charlie, hopefully you'll be able to make it. I know it's a busy, busy time.

1:39:44Yeah, I hope so. I've got this Thursday evening event that I'd far less like to go to. So I'm hoping I can squeeze my way out of that one and come on to yours. Tough scene if people involved in that event are listening. But we appreciate being your first choice. I'm hopeful they won't be. It'd be lovely to see you there. Billie Jean's going to come. Yeah, all sorts of people. It's going to be really fun. and we'll hang around in the bar afterwards to say hello. If anybody wants to show me a picture of their dog, that would be very welcome too. And then Friday is when it all kicks off. Daily live podcasts, of course, on YouTube from Wimbledon from Friday.

1:40:28That's our Draw Day podcast. Matt will be wearing his very best outfit for his very favourite draw. Saturday is media day. Sunday we'll have our preview and then it all kicks off on Monday and we're going to be live every day at 9.30pm UK time from Wimbledon. No pet mascot or shout outs this week because no Matt this week and we don't know how to do it without him. But of course we have our mascots. Hello to Phoebe, hello to Maisie and hello to Roger. Hello to our top folks and executive producers Greg, Chris and Jeff. We are proudly part of the Athletic Podcast Network and do make sure you check out Charlie and Matt's stories this week, last week, next week, throughout Wimbledon.

1:41:15There's great stuff in there, even if Charlie isn't so lowbrow as to do the streaker relive story. Somebody will, folks. Somebody will do that important hashtag journalism for you. Maybe I will now. Now you've got me thinking about it. Now I've put the pressure on. It was such a thing. It was such a mid-90s thing, wasn't it? Yeah, what's happened to streaking? That's the biggest story here. Yeah, that's the way in. The demise of streaking. Sold. Great. OK. Right. We'll be back for Friends on Wednesday of this week talking about the 90s. We'll be back on Friday with our Wimbledon Draw Show. It is all happening, folks.

1:41:56We hope to see you on Thursday at Shoreditch Town Hall. Thank you for listening, Charlie. Thank you for filling Matt's very considerable shoes and we will speak to you very soon indeed.

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