Canada - Eala lights up Toronto as men drop like flies

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1:21Matt Roberts: Well, hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast, our fourth pod of the week. It is Friday morning As we come to you, Montreal and Toronto have just about got off the starting blocks. David, a four-pod week is basically a grand slam.

1:37David Law: It's good, isn't it? Yeah, we should do this more often. Oh, we are doing it all the time, so it's fine.

1:45Matt Roberts: Matt is here. How's it going, Matt? Didn't stay up to watch Amanda and Isamova. Turned out to be a good decision because that was mostly rain, let me tell you.

1:54Catherine Whitaker: Yes, well, with an early recording like this, I had a decision to make and I opted for early night, early wake up, whizzed through the condensed 15 minute matches on Tennis Channel. So I've watched a load of those this morning and look, she got the win. So it worked.

2:13Matt Roberts: Yeah, I take it they cut out the sad static shots of an empty court with rain falling down in the 15 minute highlights, which is what I found myself staring at at midnight last night. We will get on to all of that. We are going to start, though, with the hospital ward that is men's tennis at the moment. and we're actually going to start outside of Canada. The hospital ward does extend to Canada as well, but we're starting in Europe. With the Carlos Alcaraz news that broke a couple of days ago, we knew he was targeting Cincinnati for his comeback. He'd never confirmed Cincinnati for his comeback, but we obviously started seeing very encouraging training footage of Carlos Alcaraz, first with braids, then without braids.

3:03Matt Roberts: The Braid era seems to have gone very quickly. Maybe he's a tennis podcast listener, who knows. But so have hopes of him playing in Cincinnati because we had the confirmation a couple of evenings ago that he has withdrawn from Cincinnati. We're hearing sort of through the grapevine reassurances that this isn't due to any kind of setback. It was just always going to be an ambitious timeline line for him to be ready in time for Cincinnati. So it's not, it's obviously a blow, David. I was looking forward to maybe seeing Carlos Alcaraz in Cincinnati and it is, but apart from that, I do, I sort of believe the reassurances that this isn't any kind of disaster with the injury, but it now does leave him the pickle of, well, can he make a comeback from a what four month injury and this is different to an off season you know he had a lot of time not being able to hit tennis balls at all that is very unusual for tennis players can he come back from that period on the sidelines cold into a best of five set grand slam tournament or would

4:19David Law: that be madness it doesn't sound ideal does it um i mean i i i think it is a pretty big setback personally it's the the idea was if you're going to play the US Open the idea is to play Cincinnati really isn't it and to to get yourself properly into a big tournament with best of three set matches and he's not able to do that um at the moment it's a setback in terms of

4:51Matt Roberts: potentially being competitive at the US Open maybe but I mean it's not a setback in terms of nothing's happened nothing's happened to his wrist no is what we're hearing it was just always an

5:02David Law: ambitious timeline yeah but i think it's a bit of a reality check because i think when we were all seeing those video pictures of him swiping forehands and and looking like a tennis player on the practice court i think we were running away and probably thinking oh he's back well you weren't

5:23Matt Roberts: David, you were an absolute bummer about it. I know. You've been proven right.

5:27David Law: I do, really, don't I? And I think that that's probably a little bit of life experience of having been the excitable one every time anybody looks half decent on a practice court. I've spent a lifetime doing this, getting over-enthusiastic about somebody's comeback based on a few bits of footage. And the truth is it's so different being in a match situation. I mean, we could well be in a situation where by the end of this year, and imagine if somebody had put this to you in Australia, that Serena Williams plays more Grand Slam tournaments in 2026 than Carlos Alcaraz does. You know, that is an absolute possibility.

6:11David Law: That do you know. Yeah, it's a bit of a reality check, isn't it? And look, Serena came and played Wimbledon without playing anything before other than a bit of doubles. And, you know, I mean, she looked OK in that one match. Surely this isn't the comp. No, but this is kind of my point, really.

6:29Matt Roberts: She's had four years on the sideline and is in her mid-40s.

6:32David Law: I know, but I mean, I do think that I'm still pretty apprehensive about Alcrasz generally. It's not just about the US Open because he's taken such a long time off.

6:46Catherine Whitaker: Can I interest you in Winston-Salem?

6:48Matt Roberts: Yeah, there are rumours, David. Sure. And these are spurious at this stage, but I'm willing to get excited about them. There are spurious rumours that he's investigating the wildcard situation in Winston-Salem. I'll tell you now, Carlos, I think they'll be up for it. Imagine if they'd given them all out. Yeah, we've given one to Zachary Schreider. I'm sorry. That was the last one. They will change the rules if need be.

7:19David Law: Zachary, is there any chance we could have that wildcard back? We'll make it worth your while. You know, but it's...

7:25Matt Roberts: David, if we got the news later today, he's taken a Winston-Salem wildcard and, you know, a positive quote about how he just needed that extra week or two weeks, I suppose, isn't it? Would that change how you feel?

7:42David Law: Not really. I want to see him play. I'd be looking forward to seeing him. And then upon seeing him in match situations, time after time, I would be certainly more relieved by that. I mean, I think there's still a big difference between that and going to the US Open and being, I'm not necessarily being competitive for the title, but you want to see him able to physically do it again. that's the the bottom line is can this guy play tennis over best of five sets i'm not saying again but like if he doesn't play now then he's got several months until the australian open and and i just sort of wonder well what's the point at which you can build it up and start playing because so far you've had four months out of the sport so it must be pretty bad to miss that much time?

8:40Matt Roberts: Well, that was pretty depressing, Matt.

8:47Yeah, look, I mean, I totally understand what David's saying and I guess I agree with it, really. I think the Cincinnati news and the fact that he's withdrawn from that

9:00Catherine Whitaker: has just made me re-evaluate the timeline. You know, there was something in my head that that was going, OK, he's already hitting again. If he could get one or two matches in Cincinnati and come through that pain free. OK, he can then go into the US Open. And I don't think he's likely to win it just with the sheer lack of tennis that he's had. But maybe we get a Grand Sam experience again where Carlos Alcaraz is a factor and is winning a few rounds. and looking better and building. And I was that level of excited about our careers going into the US Open. Now I'm, oh, well, does it even make sense to play the US Open?

9:45Catherine Whitaker: You know, because if you can't play Cincinnati, how ready are you? Even with potentially a Winston-Salem wildcard, how ready are you for Grand Slam? And I think the answer to that at this stage is probably not ready. And if he is going to come back for the US Open, I get the sense that it would be pushing it, which has been totally against his approach this entire time. So, you know, in that respect, I'd also now be nervous, I think, if he played the US Open, because I think it would feel like he's trying desperately to get back for it and not miss three Grand Slams this year. So that's what's changed for me rather than any concern about the injury generally.

10:32Catherine Whitaker: I have to believe everything we're reading, which is that the recovery is on the right track and he will get back. It's just a matter of when and that when in my mind has just shifted back a little bit. Yeah, he's hitting the timing is pretty unfortunate, isn't it?

10:51Matt Roberts: because if he doesn't make it for the US Open, he's hitting a rare point in the calendar where there aren't any grand slams to build up to.

11:00Catherine Whitaker: A big Lever Cup comeback.

11:02Matt Roberts: Yeah, Lever Cup are absolutely rubbing their hands together at this, aren't they? Do you know what they don't want? A Winston-Salem wildcard. To be honest, not the worst event to come back in. No, absolutely. It's down the road from us, Matt. We've got accreditation.

11:21Catherine Whitaker: I was thinking for him, actually, but yeah, it's good for him as well. No, I agree.

11:31Matt Roberts: Staying with devastating men's tennis injury news for honestly quite some time, actually, folks, strap in. Yannick Sinner, some slightly worrying murmurings coming from the Sinner camp this week. well, originally worrying and latterly less worrying. Corriere della Sera reported yesterday that he was having medical checks in Milan, I think, that weren't routine. They were related to some discomfort he was feeling in his knee. And at that point, participation in Cincinnati sounded like it was in doubt. Now, Gazetta were reporting last night that he had had a positive training session and that the verdict was that the knee issue, whatever it is, is treatable with physiotherapy and that the plan very much is to fly to Cincinnati.

12:25Matt Roberts: So look, this is a completely different situation to Carlos Alcaraz, but it's still not, it's not great, is it, David?

12:34David Law: Not really. You know, it is difficult because we've not seen him, I've not seen him noticeably struggle, certainly in tennis matches with that and we haven't seen him pull out of anything yet. I suppose you could say he's pulled out of Canada but then I fully expected him to pull out of Canada. Certainly, you know, that makes total sense given what he's done the last couple of years. This is a bit of a concern because it is proper publication with proper reporting there. Yeah, time will tell But it wouldn't be a massive surprise in terms of just the number of players who are struggling physically right now with the grind of the circuit.

13:22Matt Roberts: Yeah, it is. Look, it is a pretty desperate situation, quite frankly. That doesn't sound too alarming for Yannick Sinner, but it's definitely, you know, we'll be watching out for that. It's, you know, it's a brutal surface, hard courts, isn't it? It's unforgiving on the joints if you are going into a Grand Slam swing with a joint issue. It's far from ideal. OK, let's head to Canada and start ticking off the devastating injury news from Montreal. At the time of recording, by the way, which is Friday morning, both the men's and the women's events are at the same stage. They're halfway through the third round.

14:08Matt Roberts: On the men's side, only three of the top 11 men's seeds remain. And by contrast, on the women's side, only one of the top 13 seeds has lost. I mean, due to injury and shock defeat and withdrawal, the Montreal draw is just absolutely decimated right now. And we'll come on to who that might end up being an opportunity for. I think the answer to that might be, frankly, anybody at this point. But let's start by ticking off all the injuries that we've experienced so far in Montreal. And I'm afraid we have to start with, honestly, what was some of the most harrowing scenes I've seen on a tennis court this year during Jack Draper's comeback match against Terence Atman on, what was it, Tuesday night in Montreal.

15:08Matt Roberts: One four down in the final set was Jack Draper. He'd won the second set, but then at the start of the third, it became very clear very quickly that something was wrong. It was basically like he powered down serve speeds, dropped way off. he was bailing out of baseline rallies playing a lot of drop shots really good drop shots by the way that's a real weapon he's developed in his arsenal but you don't want to be playing them for that reason that you don't want to hang in longer rallies he ended up losing the match but it was at the 1-4 sit down in the deciding set when Jack Draper crumples quite frankly in a sort of, well, a devastating depiction of a man that has had a soul-destroying year on tour and off tour, trying desperately to get his body into a position where it can just compete and do the thing that he has spent his whole life training it to do.

16:15Matt Roberts: And it looks at the moment like it simply cannot do that. My read on the situation, David, is that with this bone bruising, this chronic bone bruising he gets in his racket arm, my read on the situation is it can handle load up to a certain point. It can handle maybe even 90 % of what's required to compete at the top of men's tennis. It can handle practice, but it can't handle 100%. They can't handle the match court and it comes back, you know, an hour, 90 minutes into tennis matches. And maybe that's something he can play through and improve. But the look on his face on Tuesday night suggested to me that he fears or maybe even knows that that is not the case.

17:05David Law: Yeah, I believe he didn't do a press conference following that match. And so I'm cautious about putting my own read on his sobbing, his really moving, sobbing courtside. I don't want to necessarily tell you why that was because I don't know. I haven't asked him or I haven't been told by him why that is. um we're guessing but i mean we all we do know that the guy has been out for most of the year and he's kept trying to come back and he's kept getting sensitivity to that arm and uh and you know i i after that i i i sought out and there's a really good piece by jonathan jureko on the bbc sport website about bone bruising which is to try to explain what it is which is an internal bleeding in the center of the humerus bone.

18:02David Law: The vice president of the British Orthopedic Association, Professor Amar Rangan, said that it's like a sort of tube-like bone between the shoulder and elbow joints, and one of them breaks, and there's sort of blood pressure with inside the bone. And tennis players are particularly liable to it because of the stresses you're putting on that part of the body with the acceleration and deacceleration of shots, particularly the serve. And it says that generally it's sort of a dull, deep-seated pain as well as limited mobility and inflammation. And, you know, in terms of how you recover from it, well, the professor says it's almost a race between the bone healing and further stresses.

18:47David Law: So Jack's taken all these months off to rest it and rehab it, and you're hoping that it heals enough so that he can play the sport again. But, you know, some people say, well, I mean, I think my wife said to me the other day, could he not have surgery? You know, and apparently surgery is something that would damage it further. That wouldn't improve it. It would actually sort of damage it. And the only thing that can strengthen it is to rest and heal it that way. And, of course, Jack doesn't want to just rest. He wants to be a player. And Arthur Ferry's had it. And Toby Samuels had it in the UK.

19:25David Law: And they have recovered and they have become players. don't know the extent of theirs but he's in this constant process of trying to heal it and i think i'm there and i think it can cope and it's coping in practice it's what it's played a couple of matches and oh no now it's stopped and now it's hurting again and now what do i do that's my reading on it is like how do you keep this up um i i i've seen a bit of footage of him practicing i think in preparation for another challenger um that's coming up next week um

19:56Matt Roberts: But I think he can practice, right? Yeah. You know, we heard about that practice set he won against Ben Shelton's 6-1 in Washington. I think, you know, he can get to a certain point and it feel good. But, you know, this is a game of fine margins, isn't it? And, you know, you can't be playing at practice level on the match court. Yeah.

20:23David Law: Yeah, it's devastating really to see it. And I mean, he's such a great guy and he so wants it. He's doing all the right things. He's dedicating his whole life to trying to make himself able to play this sport at the level he knows he can. And he's not able to at the moment. And there's no obvious sign of him cracking it. And I really hope that's wrong. I hope that he is closer and he's just frustrated. But the way his serve powered down, the way he had to sort of change the way he was playing midway through that match, hopefully it's just a setback from the first big match back. Obviously, he didn't play Wimbledon.

21:09David Law: He had to pull out of Washington at the last minute. And he's played this match. And maybe you've got to test it and see how far away you are. Maybe it needs another sort of incremental build-up of matches. I don't know, but I just know that I'm devastated for him that he's having this experience and I really hope he can find a way through it.

21:30Matt Roberts: Anything to add, Matt? No. Honestly, that was one of the toughest things I've seen on a tennis court in a while, seeing Draper like that.

21:43Catherine Whitaker: And I don't have anything to add on the injury and just hope all the best for him, really. That was brutal.

21:52Matt Roberts: Yeah, absolutely. Félix Auger-Eliassime withdrew from the tournament ahead of his first match, citing a back injury sustained in practice. He was the second seed at this tournament, Montreal, his home event, you know, with the state of the draw. I mean, frankly, without the draw being in that state, he was a favourite to win this title and he couldn't even get to the starting line. Back injuries sustained in practice, devastating for the event that were already in ruins by this point, quite frankly. This is an event that obviously last year they had the WTA and they had Victoria Mboko coming through in Montreal to win the title.

22:34Matt Roberts: And it just couldn't be more different for them this year, could it? All the Canadians are out. Denis Shapovalov and Gabriel Diallo both retired in their opening matches. tough scenes for Diallo. Actually, I don't know if you saw that. It was on the same night as the devastating Jack Draper scenes, but Gabriel Diallo was in such a bad way. Leg injury for him. And then all the other Canadians, the smattering of wild cards, they all lost. So there were none left by the end of round two. Just a couple more injuries to cover before we get to the light at the end of the tunnel, folks. Taylor Fritz has a new injury seemingly.

23:21Matt Roberts: Oh God, what's he got? He lost to Augustin Taranti in his opening match and the result itself didn't raise any red flags for me. I thought, well, that could be a blessing in disguise for Taylor Fritz to have an enforced couple of weeks off. But then it's emerged that he's struggling with his right foot, Matt.

23:45Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, well, I don't know how bad this is, but he was having it looked at during this match against Durante and was getting a bit of treatment on it and, you know, looked to be in some pain with it. But I've not actually seen any quotes about what the nature of that injury is. And I do think it was a tough turnaround coming off Washington with the Monday final and having to play. and we know that he's sort of managing, you know, serious knee condition as well. So, yes, hopefully the foot's not too bad and it can actually be a bit of a blessing in disguise with Cincinnati and the US Open to come.

24:28Catherine Whitaker: And he's already banked 500 points on the hard courts in Washington. So, yeah, we'll just have to see on that one.

24:37Matt Roberts: and a retirement last night from Francis Tiafoe against Arthur Rindeknesh.

24:44David Law: Yeah, I saw that one. He looked unwell. I don't know the exact nature of what was going on there, whether it was an injury or unwell, but I mean, right from the first couple of games, he just looked like he really didn't have any energy, he couldn't really get around the court. He was sort of... The final game of it was quite funny on the tennis TV, 10-minute highlights for a 6-2-2 love. Half the highlights were the final game, which he was coming up with some of the most ridiculous, almost trick shots, touch shots to stay in the game. The crowd were going crazy. And yet he got broken. And the crowd had gone wild.

25:25David Law: And then he just walks to the net and he has to shake hands. And they didn't really understand, I don't think. Well, he's just been hitting some worldies. But, I mean, there were just rabbits out of the hat, you know. and he didn't look in a good way.

25:36Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I also thought he looked ill. Chris Eubanks did mention that there's a bit of a wrist issue there as well for him. So I don't know exactly what the retirement was related to. But yeah, a couple of things going on with Tiafoe.

25:51Matt Roberts: Disastrous US swing so far, North American swing so far for Tiafoe. Quite a lot of pressure on Cincinnati for him, I'd imagine, to try and find something. That is it for the injury section of the show. I could do that's it for part one, couldn't I? And just have, you know, a whole injury part one. But no, we're going to turn our attention to happier news coming from the unexpected source, David, of Art of Feast, who has won back-to-back tennis matches. Bring us good news.

26:28David Law: He looked all right as well. I mean, I don't want to tempt fate because obviously when we saw him against Raphael Hoddard the other day, he played a great first set, didn't quite win it and then started to feel something, went off the court, la la la. Anyway, he's back and he looks okay to me. There were no sort of twinges or anything like that. He looked blummin' rusty. I mean, really.

26:53Matt Roberts: There was a racket smash in that Shrider match.

26:55David Law: Yeah, he was not very good in his first match. That was not a good performance particularly. You know, he is a player who's prone to a sudden lapse and losing three games very quickly. He lost the first three games of that match. And then he lost another three-game period in the second set, which cost him the set, you know. But he's able to get himself back on track and still win a lot of those. Second round match was very close against Navone until sort of three-all. And then he just took over. he looked much more like he did in the spring in this match so and when he was doing well in Indian Wells and Miami he looks a heck of a player and you know he's exactly the sort of player if he could just not get injured now or if the injury doesn't crop up he's the sort of guy that comes through the biggest if in men's tennis at the moment well I mean it is isn't it I mean what an extraordinary show to have had I mean it's no exaggeration the sheer number of problems players are having but Feast is the sort of guy that might be able to take advantage of this and, you know, go all the way.

28:04Matt Roberts: Just, we will move on, but just lingering on this injury situation for a moment, that is an extraordinary opening to the show, really, isn't it? That's, it is, I know we keep banging on about it, but the situation keeps somehow worsening. Should the ATP be at least acknowledging this in some way? Should we be hearing from Gaudenzi or someone from the ATP? Should somebody be saying, look, we can see we're noticing this trend. The welfare of the players is always our number one priority. And we will be, I don't know, the sort of statement, the sort of corporate statement that people's put up, we'll be looking into it, we'll be conducting a review, we'll be, you know, we see that something is happening here.

28:54David Law: I'd like to think that they're a bit worried about it.

28:57Matt Roberts: But what evidence have we got at the moment that they are? Or that they see it as anything other than a bunch of individual unfortunate events?

29:07David Law: I am mindful that what everybody says in public isn't necessarily how they feel and what they're doing in private. That having been said, there's so many of them at the moment. If there isn't an obvious link, then they probably need to get that out there that this isn't out of the ordinary historically or something like that, unless it is out of the ordinary historically. I mean, we may be in an unfortunate period where all the headline names are getting the injuries and the lower rank and file aren't, for instance, whereas maybe in the past it's been the other way around. I don't know. But the sheer number of headliners being out of the game and comparing that to the women's game, for instance, it's not great, is it?

29:53Matt Roberts: But don't you think the optics, even if they are doing stuff behind the scenes, the optics and the PR of this matter, right? You know, fans are looking at this going, my God, men's tennis, like what a disaster. I as a tennis fan would want to hear from the ATP that they don't want this to be how things are they don't want this to be the status quo

30:17David Law: based on the show we've just had for the last half an hour I'm going to be asking them the question are you worried? are you doing anything about it? is there anything to be seen in your stats?

30:33Matt Roberts: we'll keep you posted folks uh okay that's the injury section of the show on to the dutch section of the show who knows how long this segment will be a thing for but it's certainly a thing today let's start with talon greekspor david finally got over the line against uh albeit a subpar alexander zverev but one that needed putting away David and that is something historically that Talon Greeks Paul has spectacularly failed to do even from winning positions well this time he blooming well did it yeah I remember another

31:09David Law: one of his wins against Zverev was very similar to this last year I think in Indian Wells sort of seven six in the third you know where he's had several chances he's been by far the better player and yet you've you're sitting there thinking he's not going to win this is he you know and and he sort of should have won the first set. He was by far the better player, lost it on a tie break. I mean, Zverev really was a part. And, you know, he said in his pre-tournament press conference, I'm not really expecting much of myself here, and that it was kind of touch and go about whether he played the event.

31:43David Law: And then, I mean, the second set could have been a bagel. I mean, it was 6-2 in the end, but he won the first four games, Greek sport. He's playing really well, by the way. third set he takes a 3-1 lead he serves for it immediately starts to lose his serve and is going to the corner and he's got there are a lot of demons going on there with Talon Greeks he's had a tough year he said afterwards I've had a really tough year and so this is kind of the biggest win of my life really to have got this now and he lost his serve and when the scores were level there I think at four games all, something like that.

32:25David Law: I thought, OK, it's probably over now. And Zverev will probably take over. But no, he broke again immediately. Griegsport, and this time he served it out. All power to him for doing that.

32:39Matt Roberts: And it turned into a twin set of big Dutch victories because later that evening, Bertik van der Zanschelp took out Daniel Medvedev, who's got a very odd record at this event, Medvedev. I think you surprise me. Well, he reached the final in 2019, lost to Nadal, I think it was then. And every other year going back to 2018, he's lost his opening match. And look, this was an odd match. Again, not surprising given the personnel involved. Nobody could hold serve. Daniel Medvedev was just slightly less able to hold serve than Burtick. nine double faults, I think, for Medvedev versus only three aces. I mean, if you'd showed that version of Medvedev to the 2019 one, I was there for that run to the final in 2019.

33:32Matt Roberts: And it was just so exciting from Medvedev. He was an exciting tennis player. He hit a good smattering of double faults back then because he took risks on the second serve, didn't he? He kind of gained the system. And I remember him talking about how he'd worked out that, you know, what his second serve percentage was. And it was worth taking the risk of the double fault to go big on the second serve. And, you know, he could really do damage to opponents back then. And look, this was the Bertic that sometimes randomly gets out of bed in the morning that looks world-beating. He's so smooth, Bertic, at his best, isn't it?

34:14Matt Roberts: It's like he just hits this flow state. and he's like, I mean, he's as surprised as anyone.

34:23Matt Roberts: His face is saying I'm 5-2 down, but his tennis is saying I'm 5-2 up. So yeah, look, Bertic was great, but Medvedev, yeah, doesn't look like the one that's going to be taking advantage of any opportunities. There might be immense tennis at the moment, which, you know, he's one of the rare top players. He's won a hard-court Grand Slam and he's not injured. And yet he can't take advantage. It's, yeah, I imagine he's pretty damn frustrated, Daniel Medvedev. I think he described it as a horrible match or something afterwards. You know, he's not happy. But a great duo of wins for Dutch players. So we'd lost Zverev, we'd lost Felix Rouget, Eliasim to injury.

35:20Matt Roberts: Obviously Sinar Alkraz didn't get to the start line, lost Medvedev, Fritz is gone. You're thinking, wow, what an opportunity for Alex de Manor, Matt. Top seed remaining. He's serving for the match against Cam Norrie last night. Ends up losing it 6-1 in the third.

35:39Catherine Whitaker: Such a tough loss for de Manor because he should have won this. Totally. I mean, an odd first set. He came out firing Dimonor, broke Norrie in the opening game, and then suddenly was 4-1 down, despite not playing all that badly, I thought. I thought Norrie was really impressive in that opening stretch. But then Norrie twice gets broken from 40-1 up in that first set, and Dimonor comes up with some incredible shot-making down the stretch in the first set, wins the opener, and then takes this 5-2 lead in the second set. And frankly, I am at that stage getting ready for bed. I'm like, this is over.

36:18Catherine Whitaker: I'm going to go and brush my teeth. I'm going to keep the telly on. But I am ready as soon as this finishes to turn the telly off, get to sleep.

36:27Matt Roberts: Hang on, what's your new flat layout? We've not been invited round, David, so we don't know. Can you see your big telly from your bathroom?

36:35Catherine Whitaker: I can see my big telly from most places, yeah. Not from the bathroom, but, you know, the noise feeds through. It's a good set-up. But he double-faults on match point, De Manor. And that's immediately a warning sign, isn't it, of sort of, he's tense. And against Norrie, you know Norrie's not going to go away. And he keeps the pressure on. And he serves for it again, De Manor, at 5-4. Norrie plays quite a nice game, but the Diminor gets broken. But then Diminor does manage to take it to a tie break. He holds to take it to a tie break. And I'm thinking, OK, he's got over the little choke that he's just had.

37:17Catherine Whitaker: He's now in a tie break, takes a lead in the tie break. And then he loses that lead and suddenly loses the set. And all of his momentum's gone. And he loses the third very, very quickly. again with a lot of badly timed double faults on break points he'd be double faulted to go down a break he double faulted to go down a double break and it was just the picture of a man who is just severely lacking confidence I think at the moment and the ability to to tough through matches which has always been one of his great attributes there's a lot of self-doubt I think in there right now. And the opportunities are there for him and he can't grasp them.

38:02Catherine Whitaker: And I think it's all snowballing and making it worse in his mind. Yeah, really, really tough loss for De Menor because I agree with you. I think this tournament was well set up for him, actually, to really have a run.

38:18Matt Roberts: Rafael Hodder, the wall that we're all expecting him to hit isn't here yet. He was really impressive last night. Straight sets over Lorenzo Mazzetti, Matt.

38:31Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, second week in a row that he's beaten Mazzetti. He needed three sets in Washington. He's done it in straight sets here. And look, very tight first set. Mazzetti has break point at 4-3. And then loses 11 points in a row. and Tennis TV clipped up that little section of the match and described it as a generational lock-in from Hodar, which I think might have been bait because you then watch the points and it's basically just the unforced error fest from Lorenzo Mazzetti.

39:10Matt Roberts: It's just Mazzetti on a hard court.

39:13Catherine Whitaker: Hodar doesn't do a huge amount of locking in, I wouldn't have said. Generational. But, you know, he knuckled down. He didn't make errors. He came with a lot of good energy in those moments, whereas Mazzetti's energy was... No one's clicking on a knuckling down, Matt. No, I guess not. I'm not afraid of it. I'm not afraid of it. Imagine what Novak Djokovic is thinking.

39:35Matt Roberts: Generational knuckling down from Raphael Hodder. Click.

39:39Catherine Whitaker: Yeah. I was like, okay. But I suppose it was indicative of a guy like Hodder who at the moment is like the anti-Demenoir, isn't he? He's full of confidence. He's winning a lot of matches, even when he's not necessarily playing his best. He's coming through tough moments and that all builds confidence. Whereas Mazzetti doesn't have any of that at the moment and is searching again. And I just have this sense that Mazzetti, every time something goes a little bit wrong on court, he's almost thinking, oh well I had it all going on in Australia and then I got injured you know it almost feels like he's still not over that mentally he's bringing that still to the match court and which is understandable he was playing brilliantly when his when his career got disrupted like that but it's just a process of trying to get it back and you see it in those moments where he has an opportunity and can't take it he suddenly gets very very frustrated and down on himself and And he sort of let that first set run away from him.

40:46Catherine Whitaker: And then that energy continued in the second set and Hodder built a 4-1 lead. And then it became a bit of a match again. And Mazzetti was suddenly back and the shot making was back and he recovered one of the breaks. And maybe he could have pushed it. But Hodder was good. Hodder was really good in this one. He was more explosive than I'd seen him recently. taking charge, hitting his backhand down the line very well to expose Mazzetti, who wants to stand in his backhand corner. He leaves quite a lot of space up the line, and Hodder took advantage of that. He was dangerous on return, looking to harm on all the returns that he's hitting.

41:24Catherine Whitaker: That's the Hodder that I think we first saw and want to see. He did have a bit of that going on last night against Mazzetti. It's another big opportunity for him in this tournament as well. You know, like he's the one right now with the confidence. It's just I do still think he's hanging on a little bit physically based on all the matches he's played. So that's going to be interesting to watch.

41:49Matt Roberts: Is Hodder the favourite for the title from here?

41:55Catherine Whitaker: It's a very good question.

41:59Matt Roberts: David?

42:03Matt Roberts: or either of you somebody say something it's

42:10Catherine Whitaker: Hodder's problem is he's actually landed in the in the section that is still a little bit tough he's got the Heska and then he's and then he's got the winner of Feast Norrie like there's there's actually a lot of good players still left in that little section

42:26Matt Roberts: who's your pick who's your pick from here

42:34Catherine Whitaker: I don't have a pick

42:36Matt Roberts: do you think it could could be somebody really random

42:41David Law: isn't Jakob Minchik or Ben Shelton maybe the favourite at this point I would probably put one of those guys

42:50Matt Roberts: yeah Tommy Paul Leonard Tien and they're playing each other

42:55David Law: Paul and Tien

42:58Matt Roberts: Fonseca plays rude I think Yeah he does

43:01Catherine Whitaker: Fonseca looked good against Sitsa Pass

43:03David Law: Yeah I'd probably go with one of those guys I mean Shelton won it last year didn't he I'd probably go Minsk actually the way he's playing at the moment

43:15Matt Roberts: Matt your pick

43:20Who

43:21Matt Roberts: Is there anyone in the draw Is everybody in the mix who's not in the mix

43:28David Law: lots of people are certainly okay Zizu Bergz

43:36Catherine Whitaker: yeah Borges he's had a nice run he's won three matches but I'd be surprised if he won the title

43:44Matt Roberts: is Rindeknesh in the mix Nakashima Rindeknesh Darderi

43:50David Law: Marida's not in the mix is Darderi in the mix David

43:54Matt Roberts: no Cam Norrie

43:57David Law: but there are several that are probably yeah Norrie's in the mix

44:01Matt Roberts: so Burgs isn't Terence Atman

44:09Catherine Whitaker: I'd be surprised if he won it Hubert Hurkacz, Bertic

44:14Matt Roberts: my guy Bertic you tell me yeah it would be spectacularly random Yeah, but he's the guy that does the surprising thing. So he always gets to a point where he loses. Yeah, no, he will lose. Bertic will lose. Thiago Augustin-Tarrante, not in the mix. Popperin, former champion in the mix. Alex Mickelson. These are questions, folks. Please answer. Yeah, but... Mickelson in the mix.

44:50David Law: What do you think?

44:54Matt Roberts: I think Alex Wilson is not in the mix. I would still be surprised.

44:57Catherine Whitaker: Trying to pick someone out of this to actually win it is just total guesswork.

45:02Matt Roberts: Okay, but don't be surprised and annoyed that I'm asking you to do that guesswork on the tennis podcast.

45:09David Law: You look surprised and annoyed when we asked you.

45:12Matt Roberts: Yeah.

45:15Matt Roberts: I've said no to Bertic. Bertic is not in the mix.

45:20Catherine Whitaker: I could do that.

45:21Matt Roberts: Not in my lifetime. Okay, so from here, David, you're picking Shelton? No, you're picking Menshik.

45:28David Law: No, Menshik, yeah.

45:29Matt Roberts: And Matt, you're picking... I'm going to press you. You're picking Fonseca. Fun. These are fun predictions. Okay, folks, that's it for part one. We'll be back in part two to talk about Toronto.

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48:10Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast where we head to Toronto now and the WTA event, the 1000 event happening there this week and a first match, a first tournament, a first defeat since lifting the Wimbledon Trophy for Linda Nozkova too. Katie McNally, 7661, McNally sort of incrementingly increasing her relevance on the WTA tour in quite an exciting way and she set up now a third round match with Alexandra Eyalo Iyala, who we'll talk about in just a moment. That's a night session match tonight. McNally, Iyala. Already can't wait for that. Tell us about McNally's victory over Nozkova, Matt.

48:54Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, look, she's absolutely got game, McNally, and I really like her game. And it's good to see her becoming more relevant on the tour. And like you, I'm looking forward to this match against Iyala. Nozkova fell to pieces. I mean she was 5-1 up in the opening set Noshkova and it was then you know it was a bit like how she just couldn't suddenly play against Mukova in the Wimbledon final but very understandably because she was trying to win Wimbledon and then she recovered and got it back on track well this was like she then never recovered from the drop-off you know like her numbers at the end of this 11 double faults, 42 unforced errors was only 48 % for serves in lost 12 of the last 14 games.

49:43Catherine Whitaker: And just once she lost it, she couldn't get it back. And we know she's got quite a high risk game, you know, in terms of like she goes for lines and she tries to hit the ball flat. And sometimes it can look a bit like this. And I think it's an important reminder that, yes, she's shown she's so capable of of putting it all together and winning Wimbledon but it's not it's not always going to look like that and first match back after you've become a major champion I think you said it after the after the Wimbledon final Catherine like you almost give her a pass now until the start of next season you know like so much just suddenly changes for you it's it's It's hard, very hard.

50:31Catherine Whitaker: But I do think McNally-Eyala could be a lot of fun tonight, like just match-up-wise, game-style-wise, that one I'm really into. So, yeah, it was nice for McNally to get that win.

50:43Matt Roberts: Again, like with Hodder, no signs yet of that wall being hit. I mean, she's just riding a wave, Eyala, isn't she? I mean, absolute scenes for her first match, 6-2 in the third over Alicia Parks, David.

51:01David Law: Yeah, you get some great atmospheres in Toronto generally, especially for these night sessions. But when the Islay came out, I mean, it was absolutely extraordinary. I mean, it might have been a level up on many of the other tournaments that we've had recently from her in terms of atmosphere. It's like some homecoming. It's just like the sort of thing you see after somebody comes back to their home country. after winning a grand slam. And it was so electric and wonderful. I mean, Alicia Parks looked really taken aback at times and a bit irritated as well upon hearing certain things, I think, after certain serves and stuff like that, which I kind of, I do get.

51:44David Law: I mean, but you've got to get used to it. You've got to accept it. But there's a look in the eye about Iala. She's still in the zone right now. she's still looking like she's playing tennis pretty much to the limit she still looks fresh she still has that look of real intense focus as though she is right where you want to be with this atmosphere taking energy from it kind of almost orchestrating it i mean at the end of her match against park she was sort of asking for even more noise i'm like crikey i'm not sure they can do much but there was no she's not cowed by it at all at some point I still think crikey it's quite early in the the US season to be playing this well and to win this many matches you you can't just keep this up can you and just go and just keep winning all the way through the US Open I don't think that's doable so at some point she needs a rest you would have thought but look that's throwing it forward too far i don't i don't want to look at alexandra iala through the lens of the u.s open all the time i know that i do that a lot but i don't want to do that with her because she's so new on the circuit she's let's just enjoy this this is this is unique this is

53:11David Law: it's it's it's almost generational into you know we use that word earlier to talk about a lockdown from rafael hoda well this is generational atmosphere um and and an event for for tennis not just women's tennis for tennis this woman is getting 10 times the eyeballs on her kind of online clips than anybody else it seems at the moment so lock in and enjoy i would say

53:38Catherine Whitaker: the the tournament director said they simply had to put her on the main court like they had no other choice because of the demand that was there for her match

53:51Matt Roberts: and presumably it becomes a kind of security concern like a crowd control issue to not put her on the main court yeah she's headlining the night session tonight against Katie McNally I might set my alarm wake up in the middle of the night UK time to watch that one Amanda Anissa Mova Matt, she's beaten Barton Cova. She's facing Svitolina now. How's the forehand looking now that Rick Vlieshawers is back in the fold?

54:24Catherine Whitaker: Honestly, like a little tough to say because I did only see those 15-minute Tennis Channel condensed match highlights. and they're not going to show, you know, all the forehands that she was missing at Wimbledon, for example, in that sort of package. I think there was still, you know, she had some great points at the start of the third set and had second serve returns and missed forehands on both of them. And there was a couple of opportunities where Barton Kovar rushed her on that shot, you could see. But it was also a lot of good that wasn't there at Wimbledon. So I think it's coming back, hopefully.

55:05Catherine Whitaker: To me, the thing that stood out was how fast she looked. Like Barton Kovar was drop-shotting her and playing short balls and Anissa Mova was up to them. And I think she looks a lot more grounded and comfortable moving on a hard court than she does on the clay and the grass, to be honest. And I know she obviously reached the women in final last year, but that was mostly due to the ball striking. I think the movement looks better on a hard court. She looks more agile, I would say. Backhand, dialed, just cannons coming off that wing, of course. And she had to fight here. She was set down. She won the second set very easily, but then was twice a breakdown in the third set, but broke back immediately both times and just dug in, fought well, didn't let her frustration boil over like we have seen a lot this year.

56:03Catherine Whitaker: Problem now is she runs into Svitolina and Svitolina was awesome last night against Potapova and has a very good record against Anisimova. Beat her in Canada last year very comfortably, but I do think that was a match that Anisimova didn't really need, you know, after the Wimbledon final, after all the wins she's had, Canada didn't mean that much to her. Canada, I think, and this tournament means a lot to Anissimova now. She needs to find something going into the US Open. So it could be a pretty special match, actually, against Svitolina. I liked what I saw from Anissimova with the caveat that I didn't see the full match.

56:47Matt Roberts: I do think this stage of the season, Svitolina is vulnerable, regardless of how well she's played in the previous match and obviously the head-to-head is a problem for Anisimova but I just always, I don't know, I just feel like the well isn't as deep. I mean it isn't for everybody but I feel like that in the past couple of seasons has been more extreme for Svitolina and there was certainly evidence of that in Washington. It was Iala she lost to in Washington, wasn't it?

57:17Catherine Whitaker: She almost lost her first match here to Bufus Monero. She was very close to going out, but as I said, was very good against Potipova.

57:27Matt Roberts: Irina Sabalenka, David, has done what she needed to do for now to keep her world number one ranking. She's into the fourth round where she'll face Ekaterina Alexandrova.

57:39David Law: Yeah, yeah. It's good to see her back winning again and looking happy. She played the night session in this one, and she made it very clear how much she enjoyed it. Absolutely packed house. You know, this is one of those where, because they're dividing the tournaments up between Montreal and Toronto, she hasn't got to do the whole, oh, I know you're here for so-and-so, but it's very clear they're all here for you, Arena, or at least, you know, there's big crowds that are supporting it. I did think, you know, I hope Emily Marismo is watching this, because Irina Sabalenka enjoyed that. She's made it very clear that she likes the night session atmosphere.

58:21So good on her.

58:23David Law: And yeah, she needs to get a bit of a run going, doesn't she, Sabalenka? Needs to get some momentum.

58:27Matt Roberts: Yeah, I'd have thought so. Iga Svantec has dropped only five games through two rounds. She beat Sara Bejlik and she's beaten Victoria Goljubic. That Bejlik match could have turned, definitely. There was a game in the second Svantec serving game where there were about 12, 13 juices maybe. And it felt like, wow, if Baelic gets this back, maybe the whole match is different. But in the end, Svantec wins it and puts her foot to the floor. And, you know, through two rounds, it feels like we're talking about the Svantec of old, the Egers Bakery Svantec. But she now faces Marta Kostiuk, who absolutely took Madison Keyes to the cleaners last night, Kostiuk.

59:17Matt Roberts: I mean, she sort of big picture seems to be absolutely riding away of Kostiuk. I mean, I would have totally understood if the Wimbledon, the summer, the early summer Marta Kostiuk didn't necessarily carry through until the US Open. If there was a bit of a drop off, if she looked like she was running on fumes a little bit, well, so far, not in the least, Matt.

59:48Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I'll be honest. I didn't I didn't see much of this match against Madison Keyes because I was so wrapped up in the Alex Dimenor of it all as he was trying to trying to serve it out. and I just was checking the score on this one and it was looking pretty straightforward. So I didn't feel like I had to get eyes on it, but I'm expecting it to be much closer than that.

1:00:13Matt Roberts: Who do you see, both of you, as the favourite in Kostiuk-Swiątek? Not who do you think is going to win, like objectively, as objective as you can be. Who's the favourite there?

1:00:25David Law: I still think Swiątek is the favourite. I think you'd have to look at their pedigree in their records generally and have to go with her. But, I mean, it just wouldn't surprise me at all if Kostiuk came and played lights out and made things very difficult. Equally, I think you can get very one-sided matches for Svantec. If she's playing well and the other player's just a bit off, she can win straightforwardly too.

1:00:50Catherine Whitaker: This is the first time Svantec's had like a chunk of time with Francisco Roig, isn't it? To actually train, really. It's been all about tournaments and matches. I think it's going to be interesting in a match like this against Kostiuk, who's beaten her this year, to see whether she can actually implement what she's been working on when she's under pressure. I felt like she played with a lot of nice patience in those first two matches. You know, Golubic, she's someone with a lot of variety, and Sivante didn't let that bother her at all. She was very good. It's just that Kostiuk can apply more pressure and has got more firepower, And that's what I think is the real test of everything Svantec's been working on, really, for quite a long time now.

1:01:35But I don't know.

1:01:37Catherine Whitaker: She seems in good spirits, I've thought, in some of her interviews that I've seen. I really want to see Svantec come out firing and, you know, see whether Kostiuk can live with her. Yeah, it's a great match.

1:01:56Matt Roberts: Tasty match, yeah. Yeah, really tasty. Maya Joint won a couple of matches. I mean, back-to-back match wins for Maya Joint in 2026 is a really big deal. Great win over Serana Castella, who might be on fumes a bit now, Castella. We've had Mirandreva looking good so far. She faces home favourite Leila Fernandez tonight. Emma Navarro lost, Matt, to the talented young Russian Alina Korneva. So it's Kornieva Jovic now. You watched the Navarro-Kornieva match and had a fun time?

1:02:38Catherine Whitaker: Not really. It wasn't particularly a fun time, I wouldn't have said. It was a bit of a demolition. Well, it's made it onto the agenda. Well, that comment is about Jovic-Kornieva, which I think is interesting. Two players born in 2007, And yet I think we know a lot more about Jovic. But Corneva was the junior in 2003. She beat Andreeva in the Australian Open final. In 2023. Sorry, 2023. She literally wasn't born in 2023. She also won the French Open girls that year. She won the first two. She finished the year number one. She's just had horrible injuries since then. She had a wrist injury. She had an adductor problem.

1:03:24Catherine Whitaker: she's missed about 15 months of competition and obviously she'll have seen what Andreeva's gone on to do in that time and now what Jovic is doing but Corneva this season has jumped a lot she's won a lot of matches at tour level at world tennis tour level she reached the semi-finals in Athens a couple of weeks ago she got a win over Valantova there and she's absolutely destroyed Navarro here 2-2 and I think she feels like a lot of matches are on her racket, Corneva. I think obviously Jovic is very, very good and I would expect Jovic to win but I'm just interested to see where Corneva's at, I suppose, coming up against someone who is her age but has achieved a lot more on the tour.

1:04:15Catherine Whitaker: She's coached by Annabelle Medina-Guriguez, is Corneva and there's a good interview with her on the WTA website where she's talked about how she realised that she needs to watch tennis and study her opponents and she started doing that a lot more and she thinks that's really helpful for her to create tactical plans to face certain opponents. So, you know, really interested just how that one goes and that might be first up today actually in Canada.

1:04:45Matt Roberts: She was coach of Jelena Ostapenko, as I recall, when Ostapenko won the French Open, Medina Gorriguez. So that's a Grand Slam winning coach she's got there, which, you know, good stuff.

1:05:02Catherine Whitaker: Who might have performed wonders, actually, those two weeks.

1:05:05Matt Roberts: Yeah, might be a generational coach, Medina Gorriguez. OK, that's it for part two and your Toronto roundup of what's happened so far. We'll be back in part three with just a couple of bits and bobs of news.

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1:06:37Matt Roberts: welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast a couple of bits of wta news unsurprisingly a lot of the wta players have been asked in their pre-tournament and post-match press conferences about the story that we reported on a week or so ago about the wta's new dna-based sex testing policy. The quotes are floating around out there. None are particularly surprising. A lot of reluctance from players to get lost in the weeds on this. A deep awareness, I'd have thought, of what an easily inflamed topic it is, or already inflamed topic it is. But unsurprisingly Coco Gough has expressed the most informed, sensitive and nuanced view of the lot.

1:07:31Matt Roberts: I mean, it's amazing how she does this really. She's managed to express, you know, very, very clear and heartfelt support for the trans community while also stating the general need to protect the integrity of women's sport and an awareness of what a lightning rod of a topic this is. I mean, she just, it's so easy to say, I don't want to talk about this. I'm just a tennis player. These aren't my decisions. And she so rarely resorts to that. She's so impressive. Thank goodness for her, Catherine,

1:08:13David Law: because, you know, quite often when these topics come up, obviously people want to ask the players their view it affects the players it affects the sport they are the people that are the most high profile people to talk about it it's just that quite often you feel as though they're unequipped or unprepared to properly engage with it and she is on both stands and she just makes i read her quotes and i nod my head and and that is pretty much without fail and and i'm i'm just so grateful that she is there yeah absolutely and you say that we want

1:08:54Catherine Whitaker: to hear from the players which to a certain extent i do but i want to hear from the wta leadership on this yeah like don't you think like when something like this comes out it really should be the the wta leadership the ones who've made the decision who are front and center for press conferences and questions like yes it affects these players but they're not the ones who have made the decision and yet they're the ones who have to answer all the questions like i just think it's staggering that something like this can like a big thing can be made and the and the and the double change just put out a statement yeah stick it out in a press release and don't do

1:09:35David Law: press conferences and let the players do those yeah yeah you're right i agree yeah absolutely

1:09:41Matt Roberts: I think it's legit for the players to be, even though I, you know, kind of Coco Goff aside because I trust her to be informed. I'm not that interested in what the players have to say about it generally, unless it is clear that they are informed on the topic, because this is such a nuanced topic that requires such delicacy that, you know, If somebody isn't properly informed and reasoned on it, it's just not an opinion I'm hugely interested in. And yet their opinion is relevant because the WTA in their statement said, a big motivation for this has been that WTA players, certainly some of them, they say, have been asking for it.

1:10:25Matt Roberts: So it's completely legit to ask. But yeah, I completely agree. I mean, unfortunately, it's the playbook we see in politics quite a lot now, isn't it? It's the Farage playbook. Make a statement. Don't invite the media. Don't have to take any questions on it. But yeah, I completely agree with you, Matt. David, we've had the news that WTA Ventures, which is kind of the commercial marketing arm of the WTA, and ATP, there's an ATP equivalent. There was a lot of talk. In fact, I think the plan, the default plan was for those two entities to merge for a long time and to form tennis ventures and for that to be like the first step towards an intended merger of the two tours for the marketing departments to merge first.

1:11:21Matt Roberts: And then let's take it from there. I believe tennis ventures is now pretty much off the cards. And so we have WTA ventures and ATP ventures. and WTA Ventures, we are hearing, have appointed IMG, the huge management company, as its production partner for broadcast, replacing DAZN. David, you've done a bit of a deep dive on this. You've had a bit of a briefing about it. What does it mean to the tennis fan? What's the relevance of this? What's the importance of this move?

1:12:00David Law: well i think whilst i would love to have seen the two tours come together of course and and be combined and really put their full weight behind just selling the the product and communicating the product of tennis um in the absence of that i am encouraged by this because i think there has been a shortfall and a big disparity between the way the WTA tour and the ATP tour have been presented over the years. Tennis TV, I think, do a magnificent job of promoting men's tennis. The WTA removed themselves from that platform many years ago because they weren't getting a fair deal in their view and they went out on their own.

1:12:49And I don't think whilst the

1:12:51David Law: The DAZN deal, which was a 10-year deal, did promise to produce footage of every single match on the WTA circuit. And it's been good to that. They have done that. I don't think they've packaged and presented that to the tennis fan over the years in a way that it has been really satisfactorily able to digest and to consume the product. This should help with that. this should help with the broadcast quality i think it will make it a lot more aligned um and and able to sort of tell a story for for tennis um that's the hope and be a lot more integrated that i think the social side of things should improve because the the content will be there and everybody have access to it within within the operation the sort of conversations i've been having the last couple of days make me feel that everything should be a lot more integrated that they produce matches, that it goes into a system, there are people working on it.

1:13:53David Law: There's obviously, there's a lot of AI going on in terms of producing match highlight footage. And some of that is, over the last couple of years, I've found very substandard. What I would say is having had a good look at the WTA's YouTube site this morning and compared it to Tennis TV and ATP, they are now doing more match highlights than anybody else, the WTA tour. and they have lengthened them to sort of six minutes, which is a much better length at least in terms of being able to, right, I want to know what happened overnight. I can go and watch some highlights. If I went back six or eight months ago, it wasn't like that.

1:14:33David Law: I still think there are some real gaps. You know, I watched the Anissa Mova highlights today and the first seven points, Anissa Mova won, and she was 2-4 down. And I just don't understand, you know, how that can happen. But that's one of the downsides, I think, of AI, really. But you simply cannot have editors doing every single match. You would just need such an enormous team of people. But I think that the IMG deal, they are vastly experienced. They do this for a lot of others. Wimbledon, for instance, produced their own broadcast, which then goes to everybody else. and that's increasingly the way things happen.

1:15:16David Law: I think this should help with getting the product out there, making it easier to consume.

1:15:25Matt Roberts: Yeah, look, I worked with IMG's production partners with Amazon for five years. Amazon didn't have their own house productions. They appointed IMG to kind of run all that under the guidance of executives from Amazon. and they know what they're doing. They're an incredibly experienced, well-oiled outfit with a lot of resources and a lot of expertise. I would say that everything depends on budget. You know, like there's not many corners to be cut here. You get what you pay for in TV production and that's kind of a that's a vicious circle isn't it because you know you you increase you increase revenues and increase budgets by by growing the sport and you grow the sport by by putting money into the production and and getting eyeballs on the game and and and all of that so um it's kind of a self-feeding uh ecosystem or that's the plan we see that don't

1:16:32David Law: we if you compare the ATP production versus the WTA over the over the years it has been night and

1:16:40Matt Roberts: day really in terms of the feel absolutely yeah and and look good really good people really good producers can get eek more out of a budget than than average producers for sure but generally in TV, you get what you pay for, is my experience. Okay, I think that's it for today's show. We'll be back on Monday, though, to talk about, well, more things that have happened in Canada over the weekend. Probably a lot of it in the middle of the night. Not sure how much sleep we'll have had over the weekend, but I'm excited to lose sleep in order to watch Alexandra Ayala. We have our mascots. We have Bodhi, Maisie and Roger.

1:17:26Matt Roberts: We had some Roger visual updates this week, Matt, which I enjoyed very much. We have swimming Roger. Swimming. Yeah, the head poking out. I didn't know Bern's Mountain Dogs were swimmers, Matt. This was a real revelation for me. He must take so long to dry off. So long. Yeah, I loved it so much. He managed to look small. His tiny little head poking out from the big expanse of water. Thank you, Carrie, for sending that. Bodhi and Maisie, visual updates. Content is very much welcomed. Please do send me some Bodhi and Maisie content. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff.

1:18:14Matt Roberts: We salute you and we'll take some shout outs, Matt.

1:18:19Catherine Whitaker: We have a couple today. We have Ruth Murray from Hertfordshire.

1:18:25Matt Roberts: Hello, Ruth Murray from Hertford, George, where my brother and family live. Lovely part of the world. Ruth, like my childhood best friend. And Murray, like the Murrays.

1:18:50Matt Roberts: Tennis Ruths. That's tough, isn't it? Pam's definitely going to text us but off the top of my head I've got nothing what do we know about Ruth?

1:19:01Catherine Whitaker: Ruth and her husband Robin went to Wimbledon for the first time this year and Ruth was wearing her tennis podcast t-shirt

1:19:09Matt Roberts: go on Ruth love that first time first time Wimbledon is a is a vibe is a real vibe that's a like wow I'm here kind of moment. So hope you both had that. Thank you, Ruth.

1:19:31Catherine Whitaker: And finally, we have Susan Ford from Chicago.

1:19:37Matt Roberts: Hello, Susan, like Susan Lajovic.

1:19:42Catherine Whitaker: Indeed. And Chicago, like Chicago.

1:19:48David Law: Matt in Chicago.

1:19:50Catherine Whitaker: And Susan says, I play tennis with a lovely group of friends and we're constantly referencing or retelling good lines or insights we hear on the pod. Keep up the wonderful energy. Lovely message.

1:20:03Matt Roberts: Lovely message. Thank you, Susan. And thank you for giving us an opportunity to relive the summer hits of Chicago. And Susan Lajovic, truly two of my favourite bits from summer 2026. Susan and Ruth thank you ever so much for being friends of the Tennis Podcast if you'd like to become a friend of the pod the link is in the show notes and if you do become a friend you get access to our whole archive including the show that we did on Wednesday night with Pam your friend of mine Pamela Howard-Shriver debating and discussing what to do about doubles obviously in light of the announcement or other news that leaked from the ATP during Wimbledon that they're planning to drastically change the face of doubles on the ATP tour, much to the consternation of much of the doubles tennis world.

1:20:53Matt Roberts: Certainly a lot of the top men's doubles players have spoken out about it. It sparked a lot of debate. We decided to deep dive on that debate with 22-time major doubles champion Pam Shriver on Wednesday night. And that show is up now for Friends of the Pod. Link to become a friend in the show notes. We'll be back on Monday with our next show. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. Thank you for listening. We'll speak to you then.

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