Canada - Mboko stars, but what to make of Naomi Osaka?

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1:47Matt Roberts: Hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast on a Friday night if you're with us live, I think, outside of Grand Slam Dailies and Billie Jean King Cup and Davis Cup Dailies, this might be our first live Friday night podcast. So anything could happen, folks. Disco David is here. Hello, David.

2:13David Law: Hello. Hello. I've never been called that before. I really like it.

2:17Matt Roberts: Just came up with it. Didn't have time to workshop it, but I quite like it.

2:21David Law: Do you know, I used to hate discos when I was of an age that I was supposed to go to them. And now that I'm in my 50s... Do you mean school discos? Yeah.

2:32Matt Roberts: Or do you mean like clubs?

2:33David Law: Clubs, yeah. Like, you know, when you're 18, 19, 20 and you have to go. You have to go to a club on a Friday night. You don't want to, but, you know, you're made to go. and now I'm 51 and I kind of wouldn't mind.

2:55Matt Roberts: Going to a club right now.

2:58David Law: Well, you just call me Disco Davion and I just sort of thought, okay, fine.

3:05Matt Roberts: Matt has had a new Carlos Alcaraz haircut for this podcast in honour of the Carlos Alcaraz in Cincinnati comeback. Has Victor paid you a visit, Matt? Yeah, slid into his DMs, asked if he could fly over to Richmond. No. Apparently that's what he does. Well, exactly. He's very available. He comes to you. Yeah.

3:31Matt Roberts: Did you go to discos every Friday night because you couldn't say no? I didn't do that. I said no. Yeah. Yeah, I said no, David. I know, sometimes.

3:45David Law: It's a product of the 90s, peer pressure, you know.

3:50Matt Roberts: Well, look, there is nowhere we'd rather be this Friday night. I think that's why we've ended up having a podcast together, because we're all pretty much, you know, not Friday night disco people. It's way better. Well, David is now, apparently. Well, I'd want to go with you two and Billie Jean, you know,

4:10David Law: and then we'll have a great time.

4:12Matt Roberts: Yeah, although do you remember I suggested we all go to that club, what's it called, the club in India Mills, the famous one that's sort of wonderful and dreadful all at the same time. And you weren't having that. So the key words here are Disco David and then you're up for anything. Yeah. I've learned something new about you tonight. Right. Shall we keep up the disco vibes and start in Montreal with Victoria Mboko, 18 year old Victoria Mboko ranked outside the world's top 300 at the start of the year. Now the world number 24, she'll be seeded at the US Open and she is a WTA 1000 champion. She beat four Grand Slam champions en route to her home title in Montreal and beat Naomi Osaka.

5:08Matt Roberts: More on her to come in the final 2-6, 6-4, 6-1, her first title. An incredible moment, incredible scenes watching it, incredible scenes over in Toronto where the men's final was happening. and everything stopped when word spread that Victoria Mboko had won the title a few hundred miles away at the sister event in the sister city. Like, truly incredible scenes. There is an awful lot to get into here, so I'd like to start with your sort of opening headline thoughts about Victoria Mboko, please, David. Disco David. Well.

5:53David Law: Go. Watching her and that atmosphere did make me want to dance a bit. She's an unbelievable presence in that tournament. She just lit the whole thing up. It didn't matter that all the big names, so many big names weren't there in either Toronto or Montreal because Victoria Mboko was enough to carry the whole thing, even in Toronto. You know, like you mentioned, the fact that it interrupted the Shelton-Hachinov final and there was this eruption of happiness amongst Canadian tennis fans. That's a wonderful thing in itself. I really didn't expect this to happen this soon and to keep going the way it did.

6:41David Law: You know, I saw her play for the first time properly in Paris. I read about her for the first time from Matt Futterman in The Athletic really nice in-depth article about her and her family and her upbringing and the fact that she'd won so many matches at lower levels which always makes somebody really intriguing when they then make a step up and then she's qualified in Paris and she just looks like she's got the raw materials to be a really special player and a frightening player in terms of how good she could be for the opposition. But I didn't expect so soon afterwards for her to go and win a title like this.

7:24David Law: I thought she could go to Canada or another North American hardcourt tournament and get a couple of big wins, you know, and reach a third round at a Grand Slam or have a couple of good wins at a tournament like this. But I always expect when somebody gets a win or two at an event like this that they're just going to run out of gas. And she just kept on backing it up. And she kept going to set down, pretty dramatically losing the first set of those last two matches. And then finds her way back and just ends up really rocking these household names and taking them down. I dare say there is a degree of newcomers power, in a way, that A, she hasn't got anything to worry about.

8:13David Law: She's it's it's all upside. And from the opponent's side, a little bit like when you're playing against Tatiana Maria at Queens. Nobody nobody knows what to do with them. And and is that likely to keep on happening? I mean, look, I think Victoria Mboko's got way bigger upside and more potential to carry this on than Tatiana Maria would have done. and I think she could be a factor for years to come. But I'm aware that people may start finding some things out about how to unsettle Victoria and Boca, but they certainly couldn't during this tournament, and they had a good go. Elena Rebacchina and Naomi Osaka are Grand Slam champions, and I just was amazed the way she just kept at it, just kept going.

9:01David Law: you know Goff, Ribackina, Osaka just played within herself, backed herself, had the goods, got the win it was just and it was a glorious atmosphere for the most part of obviously we'll go on to talk about how it felt the opposite from an Osaka side of things and it leaves you with a strange feeling I think afterwards but crikey I was impressed. Matt? Yeah by the way Matt Futterman is going to be thrilled with his shout out. He's really enjoying being the Victoria Mboko early adopter. He sent me several texts this week about just that. Totally. Some great journalism. You know, watching him go about his business in Paris around the qualifying court there and just speaking to the team.

9:50David Law: You know, they were all happy to speak to Matt. You know, it was really quite interesting to watch. We have to shout out Catherine's tennis podcast, meets as well little little bounce for the tennis podcast meets with with with her winning this

10:05Matt Roberts: that's that's good news for us yeah tennis podcast meets needs a bounce i think doesn't it we did rumors of a curse was starting to starting to percolate so thank you victorian bokeh yeah i think my um my main take is quite similar to david's really and that it felt like a very a very much sort of in-the-moment win. It felt like a lot of things coming together for Mboko at this event, playing in front of that home crowd in Montreal. I think the Montreal crowd has shown itself this week to be particularly vociferous with its support, and they really did carry her through. They'd given out the Allé Vicky signs to everyone for those semifinal and final matches.

10:51There was just this great feeling, this great sort of groundswell of support behind her. Plus, she is at the moment just playing with so much confidence, having won, I think it's over 50 matches this year, when you take into account the various levels that she's been playing at. It did feel like just a coming together of a lot of things at the right time from Boko, because thanks to Matt Futterman, we have known about her talent, but I didn't think that she had this in her this early. it felt very particular to this tournament just everything everything going right I think when I've watched Mboko in the past I've been most impressed with the ball striking you know particularly the backhand obviously but the forehand's got a got a slightly funky technique it really stands out but I've just been struck by that I think what struck me this week was actually the athleticism she's a she's a way better mover and athlete and defender on a tennis court than I had realised.

11:52You know, obviously the sort of, the point that epitomises that, that everyone will go to from this tournament is the one in the final game against Osaka, where Osaka had basically given up on the point and Mboko chased down a drop shot and hit it for a winner. It was this spectacular moment, but there were a lot of other points throughout the week where she used her athleticism and her defence to just be way better than I had realised in that side of the game. So I felt like I learned a bit more about her this week as well. And as David said, the resilience that she showed to not get down on herself in these matches when she was being pretty comprehensively outplayed by Rybakina and Osaka in those latter two matches.

12:34And going back into the start of the tournament, she lost the first set to Buzkovo as well. Just like coming back to win a lot of matches was really impressive. I talked about her poise against Coco Gauff. that was there as well this sort of I wouldn't normally associate that word with with someone so young who also has a great sort of twinkle in the eye and connection with the crowd it's it's it's a really great combination that she's got so yeah I felt like I learned a lot about Mboko the player this week I sort of opened my eyes to the new parts of her game and just got more excited about about her potential but I I would I would agree with David on some of the are players going to figure her out and how how specific to this week and the momentum and the confidence that that she's got you know like I don't know it's a huge jump she's now taken up into the top 25 from about 85 in the world and she's jumped 60 places as a result of this win it just just puts her in a new echelon and sometimes that can be that can be tricky to deal with but I I would love it if she could because what a presence she is on the tour and in these tournaments.

13:47Matt Roberts: She has this remarkable ability to stay present and not panic. There were such parallels, I thought, between the opening set, the feel of the opening set, the semi-final against Rabakina and the final against Osaka. I think I sent messages to our group at some stage during both those sets expressing fear that it could end up being awkward. 6-1 first set to Rabakina and 6-2 first set to Osaka. The Montreal crowd, of which more soon, they're so expressive and they became such a character in themselves over the course of the week. You could feel their energy. You could feel them worrying about it being awkward as well.

14:37Matt Roberts: And just puts puts those puts those disappointments behind you as if they're not even disappointments. They're just like, OK, I've played a practice set. Let's go. And I mean, look, I think we probably can't dance around the Osaka of it all any longer. like we will come back to some more sort of big picture Mboko chat I think but you know in this final as soon as Mboko got her teeth into that second set Osaka left the building in an incredibly alarming way you know going into this final I'm sure you two felt the same it felt like just the absolute dream final for everybody like the organizers would have just been like drooling at the prospect of this final, the Osaka storyline, the Mboko storyline.

15:31Matt Roberts: It felt like there is no bad scenario here, no matter who wins, kind of no matter what the scoreline is. Like, this is all upside. And if you told me Victoria Mboko is going to win this Osaka Mboko final in three sets, So I'd have gone, great, sign me up, like, awesome. I'm going to have very uncomplicated, joyful feelings about that. And my feelings watching that final reach its conclusion last night, live, Matt, as you were up in the middle of the night as well, at sort of, what was it, 1.30 in the morning. My feelings could not have been more complicated and confusing. It was a very odd experience, actually, watching the last couple of sets of that final.

16:24Yeah, rarely had two ends of the spectrum like that at the same time. Like, just incredible and boco scenes. And I wanted to go with it. I wanted to just completely live in that energy that she was giving off, that the crowd was giving to her. And it was magical seeing her win. But on the other side, it was one of the tougher watches I can remember. I mean, she was so despondent and defeated so early in this match, Osaka. As you said, start of the second set, it was maybe Mboko getting her teeth into it, maybe the crowd getting up. I think there was a line call that Osaka wasn't particularly happy about as well.

17:11And her energy and her attitude just flipped. And suddenly she was kind of sulky. She was kind of pouting. She was just giving off really bad negative energy. It was just a really tough watch. Her tennis deserted her. She stopped sort of moving for the ball. She tried to hit out too much. Her forehand left the building. And as great as Mboko was playing, I actually found that the Osaka of it all was overtaking my feelings more. I felt I didn't enjoy it. I didn't like watching this match because of that. And look, I really felt for her. I don't know exactly what the cause was. I don't know whether she knows, to be honest.

18:05because everything had been upside through this tournament until that point, you know, like the movement had looked better. She'd been getting tight wind. She'd been swatting good players aside. She had all this momentum. She just set up in the final. And then it just went and never looked like coming back.

18:28Matt Roberts: Yeah, the speed with which the fragility was exposed was very, very alarming. I would say it looked to me like the catalyst for it was the crowd. Mboko gave the crowd something to get their teeth into. The energy changed and it was incredibly pro-Mboko to the extent of cheering for double faults. and that kind of thing. There's a debate to be had about whether a line was crossed, but I would say that was the catalyst rather than my interpretation. This is, you know, big-time armchair psychology, but it was the catalyst rather than the cause. I think the cause of what was going on with Naomi Osaka is internal.

19:16Like, that is somebody that plainly to me

19:20Matt Roberts: has a fundamental lack of self-esteem. like the whole the whole throughout that third set I had some Madison Keys therapy speak ringing in my head of you know if you're looking for results and achievements on the tennis courts to to to plug a hole inside you you're going to be disappointed um and if you if you told me at the start of last week Naomi Osaka is going to win a match from from match point down against a good player. She's going to win exactly the kind of match that she wants to win. She's then going to storm her way through her next three, I think, subsequent matches and reach the final.

20:02Matt Roberts: And you're going to end up feeling net negative about Naomi Osaka as a tennis player relative to how you felt before this tournament. I just would not have believed it. I couldn't have wrapped my head around how that could be possible. and yet that is how I feel. David, you are a more sensible sleeper than I am, so you watched this on Catch Up today. What did you make of it all?

20:33David Law: It's such a complicated set of feelings that I have thinking about Naomi Osaka generally because it's not just this incident, this is one of so many moments in her career where I've veered dramatically in how I not feel about her, but kind of because I like her. I like her. I love her tennis, and I hope the best for her. I think she finds some of this really hard, this environment, and she's constantly battling that, I think. And this was another instalment of that ongoing battle, which I don't think she'll ever win. I don't think she'll ever lose. I think it'll just carry on being this struggle.

21:24David Law: And look, most people struggle in life to varying degrees at one point or another. And we've seen with her that the press conferences that she decided not to attend, which, you know, at the time we were outraged by some of it. and I grew to feel differently about it as time went on and when I learnt more about why she felt as she felt and I sort of thought, okay, well, here's somebody that I don't feel like I just want to judge because there's a set of rules.

22:02David Law: One of the slight disappointments is because she didn't go to a press conference, nobody was able to ask her nobody was able to find out from her how she felt and why she was feeling but maybe she wasn't in a position to articulate that at the time I'm still hopeful that that will come and that she'll have time to process this and feel better about it I did wonder at the time whether she might be getting some flashbacks from the Serena US Open final when the whole crowd was against her but in a much more just angry way against the umpire rather than against her or or just being pro Serena in that case this was this was a mainly I felt was a pro Mboko crowd I mean there were there were moments of of you know cheering double folds and stuff like that which is which I always think must be really tough but I end up feeling like yes I know people are angry about the the post-match on court interview when she didn't give any credit to Mboko I and I know that people find it really tough to stomach that stuff and I understand why but I also think well there's somebody who just looks really like she's having a tough time and you're being made to speak and I just kind of I give people a bit more of a pass for that especially her

23:28Matt Roberts: yeah I mean look I think two things can be true right like I don't think runners-up should be made to speak. I think just because some people, and Karen Hashinov is an example of this, find it within themselves to do an incredibly magnanimous job of it doesn't mean it's not a pretty insane thing to expect a losing player to do. I think staying on the court at all for the ceremony is a pretty underratedly bananas element of this sport. So, look, I do agree with you. I have sympathy with anybody being made to address a crowd, especially a crowd that's been against you. But I think that can be true.

24:11Matt Roberts: And you can also criticise how she handled that in the moment, kind of making allowances for the circumstances or not. Like it was really bad. It was really bad, not because she was upset and disappointed. Like we've seen upset and disappointed in those sorts of scenarios. And I think people have give that a lot of grace and and sympathy like this. She came off as rude and entitled, I think was that that was a bit of a tough scene. You know, she was applauded up to the microphone and she said thanks, I guess. in a very childish way and then sort of gave out a list of thank yous. Forgot to thank Mboko, forgot to congratulate Mboko, which I'm sure she does feel terrible about after the fact.

25:06Matt Roberts: But it still happened and it still is now overshadowing the achievements of this 18-year-old who idolised Naomi Osaka growing up and she had said that in a press conference earlier in the week and Asaka was asked about it and said she was really chuffed to hear that and it just left such a sour feeling. And look, I don't know what was going on for why she didn't want to come to press but I think that was a missed opportunity for her to front up to it because, as you say, I think those are tough situations. If you come to press afterwards and you say, look, I was just, I was, my mind was swirling.

25:56Matt Roberts: That didn't go great. I would like to set things right here and now. I think that puts it to bed, to be honest. So it's a shame she didn't come to press, but I also do respect and agree with the right to not do that if you're not in a fit mental state to do so. But personally, I don't give Osaka an entirely free pass on this one, despite all of the circumstances, if you like. Where do you format? I was going to say, or you can come to press Serena Savalanka style and double down on everything you've said in the encore speech.

26:38In the moment, I thought, like, gosh, I don't like that. like it's almost a reflex I feel like that you just congratulate your opponent so the fact that she didn't do it almost in the moment felt a little bit sort of deliberate because she had those little jabs at the at the crowd as well didn't she saying you know I hope you had a good night and thank you I guess like it kind of seemed in the moment like she knew what she was doing but I have to say on reflection I have I have thought about it a little bit more and she did she did give some quotes she didn't come to press did she but i think the wta asked her one or two questions and and and put those quotes out and look she says in that that she forgot i think she was trying to get out of there as quickly as she possibly could um she said in in those quotes that umboko played amazingly well i i definitely do give her a lot of grace in that moment because i think i think like you said I think it is hard to to expect people to say the right thing in the moment I think we were more critical of Sabalenka about the press conference okay we didn't love yeah we didn't love the encore things that she said but we understood in the heat of the moment you've just lost the grandstand final Osaka's just totally lost her game totally lost the chance to win her biggest title for many many years she is not going to be her best self in that encore interview She said the right things in the kind of post-match.

28:14And yeah, so I think she's going to get hammered for it. I think she probably is already getting hammered for it. And I feel like the reaction to these things is always disproportionate to the offense. It's not great, but it's also not that big of a deal to me. It's kind of where I stand.

28:42Matt Roberts: How do you feel about sort of net positive or negative for Osaka? Like, I've seen a lot of people saying like, OK, but Thomas Wikorowski is a really good pair of hands for guiding her through this situation. But and yes, I agree with that. I really rate him and I rate that decision. And she's reached the final with him in her corner, the first event together. But I don't know. Again, this is me doing armchair psychology. I'm not qualified for. But what I saw there was a human being with problems holding her back on the tennis court that a coach can't solve. That was what I saw. Yeah, the tennis signs, really positive for everything we've spoken about today and on the pod on Monday as well.

29:31like I do think he's had an impact there and I think hopefully that will only that will only grow with time but that as you said that seemed pretty deeper and entrenched the the sort of issues issues troubling her in that in that final and I I don't know whether Mick Karofsky can solve those I don't think so so I kind of end up feeling more positive about the tennis but less positive about the place Naomi Osaka is in generally so it's a net not good really

30:16David Law: see I don't agree because I didn't expect Naomi Osaka to be in a different place to this anyway, really, like where she is. I think that this is life. This is her life. And I think that this is likely not to just change that much. I think there will be tough times for her. But I still think she people people can suffer and still do well in their chosen vocation.

30:46Matt Roberts: But she suffered and didn't do well this time.

30:49David Law: Like it stopped her from doing well. yesterday i understand but but over the course of two weeks she ended up in the final and she did she nearly won the thing um i do i she's not going to come across this sort of situation all the time and even the fact that she has and even if she does again she might be able to learn from it she may this may be the thing that she can use to analyze and improve i don't know listen i I can't know that for sure. But two weeks ago, she wasn't playing this sort of tennis at all. And she wasn't winning matches regularly. She had Patrick Moritoglu as a coach. Sorry, I don't believe in him as a coach, personally.

31:36David Law: And I don't think he was helping her. I think she is more likely to be helped by this current guy. but just generally I think that this is a real step in the right direction because this is way better than she's done before I do think she needs I'm very interested to hear what she has to say about this the next time we see her but yeah overall I'm still going to take a net positive from it personally I hope you're right because 24 hours ago I was so excited about

32:10Matt Roberts: this from Naomi Osaka so we heard it on the last podcast didn't you like it's not what it was 24 hours ago I don't feel like that we're all so back on the hype train yeah but I just I don't know I was really alarmed by what that looked to me like it revealed about her soul to be honest like I feel really sad about Naomi Osaka's soul right now um and I really hope it was circumstance specific I really do. And I agree with you. Like she's not going to face that very, very often, potentially only in Montreal. Like I've learned a lot about Montreal tennis fans this week. They are they are into it.

32:50Matt Roberts: But I will say I think it was that circumstance exposing something about her rather than that necessarily being specific, totally specific to the circumstance. Like making the parallel to that 2018 US Open final and like how she was able to deal with that in the moment and not take it personally or not take it personally to the extent that it hampered her tennis. Like yesterday, she instantly took it totally personally to the point where her tennis fell apart. And that was really tough to see. and like really human. I'm not sure how brilliantly I would deal with somebody cheering my double fault.

33:32Matt Roberts: So I think they'd get tired after a while because there would be so many of them. Like extremely human, but also not necessarily a signifier of being in a great place. But I sure do hope you're right, David. And I feel better about the people she has in her corner now than she did before. I'm going to have to ask you some big picture questions about Victoria Mboko that will definitely get criticised for getting ahead of ourselves and over-hyping her and risking all sorts of hyperinflation but I need to ask you both whether Victoria Mboko is in the US Open mix I've done it, there you go it would be a dereliction of duty if I didn't do it over to you I'm running away from the microphone

34:25David Law: no it's an absolutely fair question but no she's not no she's not for me either I think what the reason why is because it was one kind of in the image of what winning your first title should be in that it was quite messy like and I don't know she played great at times as well she did a lot of good things that we've talked about but she's not the finished article you know this is not sort of someone arriving on the scene and just like announcing themselves and beating all the best players in the world like and thinking where the weakness is there you know and that kind of thing I'm thinking you know it's not it's not Bianca Andreescu to me in 2019 when she she was kind of similar-ish trajectory you know to Mboko and obviously one in Canada just before the US Open.

35:24And I think, I don't know whether the mix was a thing at the time. I think it might have been. I think we might have declared Andreescu in the mix because, you know, she should be so many good players throughout that season. And it felt like, just felt like she sort of was ready to win a Grand Slam title. I don't have that feeling about Mboko. And that's not to say that she's not really good, but you know she wasn't having to play Iguzviantek had a slam and Sabalenka had a slam you know I think the level is higher than she kind of showed this week to win this title even though it was a great run in itself and I'm generally you know really upbeat and high on Mboko but I'm not at she's going to win a slam territory also a bit worried about the wrist to be quite honest yeah

36:15Matt Roberts: Yeah, I was going to say she's also got a wrist injury, which it clearly warms up as the match goes on. I was really worried about the extent to which it was troubling her in the first set yesterday, particularly on serve, where obviously you have to snap the wrist. But it seemed to improve, but it's obviously not great. And she's made the decision to not go to Cincinnati, which I think is the right one. But also it's an awkward decision, isn't it? It's like if you win Madrid before the French Open, it's not the best one to win, sort of timeline-wise, because there's now quite a long gap. It's quite hard to keep up the momentum, but obviously it's momentum versus sort of physical preservation.

37:02Matt Roberts: But the wrist isn't nothing. No, I mean, she did it. She seemed to do it on that fall against Rebecca in the semifinals. She fell hard on it and had to get it taped up. and then I think she had an MRI or certainly went to went to the hospital in between the semi-final and the final and I was worried about it going into the final and as you said worried at the start she I think even if it wasn't bothering her physically it was definitely in her head at the start she was sort of adjusting it and yeah it's definitely a little factor of of concern for the next few weeks hopefully not a long-term thing her technique on the forehand though is you know like there's a reason like technique's important you know and I do worry about injury when players have a bit of an odd technique and coupled with you know just the impact on the wrist plus the technique a little bit of concern there everything about her is giving backhand list Matt both the quality obviously of the backhand the fact that she's having success and having a slightly dodgy forehand this is this is right in the matt roberts sweet spot yeah anyone hoping for an announcement i'm afraid is going to be disappointed she remains she remains on the watch list i'm i'm pretty happy with the with the five we've got at the moment on the backhand list but she's coming wait until you watch belinda Bencic use her protected ranking to play mixed doubles with Zverev at the US Open.

38:40Matt Roberts: I think that's when the change will come. I think you'll find that the list will find that's tough to stomach. Just incidentally, just in on threads, Naomi Osaka famously a threads user. They are out there and shared to Instagram. She said, thanks, Montreal. It's been a really great run. I also want to say sorry and congratulations to Victoria. You played a great match and have an amazing career ahead I realized I didn't congratulate you on the court honestly I was in a daze and I was so focused on not having the same speech as Indian Wells 2018 finals or the Jenny Jennifer situation that I tried to make my speech as short as possible thanks everyone for the week see you in New York so that's well done that's that's a good thing to have done without question um do any of us have any not to sort of end the Mboko portion on a downer but do we have any concern that like this is too much too soon from Boko like is it actually a good thing to suddenly have huge success at 18 like is it actually long-term better to build a career and a ranking it's a great question

39:50David Law: it's a great question because there are so many examples on both sides where I have felt in hindsight certainly oh and I got very excited and I might be part of the hype train no great surprise there of various players and then felt as though collectively we've all put too much pressure on a player and that they've suffered as a result of it and others you know it's just it's just been a platform and they've they've been off um maybe maybe i am just an optimist i just think she just looks the part maybe yes i love the way she i love the way she carries herself on the court I love the excitement I love the the daring game that is that seems to have control she just looks like she's been doing this for years when I watch her on the court and I like what I see at least around her team and I like when Matt Futterman has spoken to them I just get I get good vibes and I do worry about when somebody becomes a big star everybody tries to jump on the bandwagon a bit, you know.

40:58David Law: And I think that Canada, you saw the appetite for another idol. And that does sometimes worry me. And I do, I just think basically Bianca Andreescu has just been terribly unlucky. I don't think that there was anything wrong with the hype she got. She's just been terribly unlucky with the injuries mostly and the pandemic and just things going wrong. So I hope for better luck for Victoria Mboko. I don't see much there that she can't handle if she's just given a little bit of help along the way. But I don't know what it's like. I've not been in it. I've only witnessed it from the outside. But I really wish the best for her.

41:47Matt Roberts: Yeah, me too. I loved every time they cut to the Mboko players' box and it was just a row of women, like, amazing. and then a dog appeared after she won like it was so great and there was obviously her family was sitting slightly separately weren't they and they were an amazing vibe like I agree like the people around you are everything in these sorts of scenarios a lot a lot is about who their agent is I think and that's kind of a murky part of it all that it's like quite a big picture in the puzzle, the sort of commercial decisions that are made and how long term of you, the commercial people around a player are prepared to take.

42:31Matt Roberts: So, yeah, there's a lot of unknowns there, but nobody's doubting the kind of raw materials. But that is kind of philosophically a general question, isn't it, about breakout success at a young age? okay anything else from montreal coco goff and mccartney kessler won the doubles title

42:53David Law: good win for meredith david yep um doing well and uh yeah i did i saw a few bits from that i think that's my guess is that that's just really a good feeling for for coco goff to take away from this tournament i think i really think she needed this because you know it's been so many dodgy results of late and no real feel good moving on from a tournament now she gets one very interested to see what she does with that going in cincinnati go-kart was their team name which i enjoyed

43:29Matt Roberts: excellent oh that's actually it's very good you like that david you hate a team name i quite like

43:34David Law: But that's the thing.

43:36Matt Roberts: Who is Disco David? I don't know this man. I liked Sarandi because it had a, you know, a pun, a good one.

43:48David Law: That's actually quite good. By the way, did you see that Mboka and Osaka are not playing Cincinnati? Yes. I saw.

43:58Matt Roberts: Yes. We talked about that.

44:00David Law: Yeah.

44:02Matt Roberts: So hang on. just rowing back punning is the key I think it being good

44:09David Law: is a good pun I don't like puns typically so if I do laugh then they're good David also I believe claimed to come up with Sir Andy

44:21Matt Roberts: you laughed at that that's funny yeah actually funny didn't you claim to come up with Sir Andy I'm sure that was a thing

44:31David Law: oh well that's probably what I liked I think that was why you liked it. I think that was it.

44:35Matt Roberts: Yeah, that's ringing a bell. OK, well, I do. I like GoCart, but I don't have such an issue with the team names as you do, David. So we're still learning the parameters of your feelings about team names. It's a work in progress, folks.

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47:39Matt Roberts: On to Toronto and a maiden Masters 1000 title for Ben Shelton. He beat Karen Hashinov in a thrilling final 6-7, 6-4, 7-6. You also got wins over Alex de Manor and Taylor Fritz in the semifinals. I watched the conclusion of the first set, Matt. I think you did as well because it sort of dovetailed with the end of the Montreal final. Such a long time to play Montreal and Toronto and the finals clashed. I mean, what the fuck? There was sort of 21 hours in the day since Monday. And 21 hours when there was no single tennis being played. All the tennis clashed. Yeah, it was disgraceful. Scheduling disgrace.

48:30race but glad i got that off my chest sorry thank you uh matt and i watched karen hashanov take the

48:39Matt Roberts: thrilling opening set on the tie break and then woke up to news that ben shelton had won the subsequent two sets and won the title so david is somebody with a healthier body clock than us or certainly than me uh tell us how ben shelton won this match oh this was this was a good match i

48:56David Law: I mean, look, it wasn't the story that Mboku and Osaka was, obviously, but it was kind of what we referenced a few days ago when talking about how not having big names, not having the sort of Sinner and Alcaraz and Djokovic and Draper gives other players chance to shine. And you kind of want people to step up, really. I expected it would be more likely to be Zverev and Fritz that ended up in the final. And fair play to these two. They stopped that from happening. And I actually think that Karan Hachinov, I mean, I know this is the first time he's really knocked on the door to this degree since he won Paris.

49:41David Law: You know, it's a long time ago now. What is it, seven years ago? Six, seven years ago? But I think he's been really good all year. I've sensed that he hasn't necessarily had all the wins to go with some of the form that I've seen. I've kind of thought he's plateaued in recent years. He's been good to a certain degree. Never looks like a threat against the very best players. I've felt more that he's a threat this year. And I felt more conviction to his game. And the win over Zverev, an example of that. Somebody he was really struggling to beat in recent years. stepped up got the win in the tie break there in this one he he was set points down in the first set and and really Shelton should have won that first set but again Hachinov took it from him and I'm going through this second set and I'm and I'm watching it and thinking I think I think Hachinov's got him here I think he's just a bit too steady and a bit too relentless and I'm not quite sure where the injection comes from in Shelton's game because I'm still trying to work out what sort of player he is really, what sort of level he's got in him.

50:51David Law: He's obviously a very good player and he rises to the occasion at the Grand Slams but I'm thinking well what, has he got another level? And I thought in this match he showed he did because at, I wrote this down, he's a set in 3-4 down, he was 15-30 down so he's right on the brink of defeat, really, here. You know, it's one, it's two more points, and he's a breaker, served down, and Hashinov serving for this match. And from there, I felt like Shelton showed an injection that I wasn't really sure he had. Obviously, he's got the big serve, but this was more than that. The point he played at a set in 3-4, 15-30 was a drop shot, brought his opponent in, hit a lob over his head, got a fairly cautious smash and then passed him from there and I thought wow that's clear thinking so that's 30 all then he hit a fake backhand drop shot poked it down the line and then did a cross court backhand passing shot off the back of that so he's got game point then a massive serve to hold so that puts him at 4 games all next game he comes out and he absolutely levels the ball three times for clean winners to break serve.

52:08David Law: He went down love 40 in the next game. He had to save four break points, but he got out of it. And I just thought, you know, he used in the post-match on-court interview, he used the word clutch, which is a word that I try at my utmost not to use and actually to not listen to when people use it, because I don't like the word, right? The problem is it's just so bloody useful in as much as I can't think of an equivalent that we use over this side of the Atlantic that means the same thing and actually is as relevant. And because that's exactly what he was. He stepped up when he needed to and delivered in the clutch.

52:52David Law: Oh, God. But anyway, that's what he did. Hang on. Clutch or the clutch? Well, they used both. He just said I was clutch. I don't know. I don't know. But I think what it means is when it really mattered, I was there. And then in the deciding set, it was just, you know, frankly, I fast-forwarded quite a lot of the games because they were just zipping by 40-15 game, 40-love game. You know, it was like that. And then I stopped at the final set tiebreak and really took that in. And again, he was clutch. He was. And he just found the shots. I don't have an issue with clutch, David. You don't?

53:29Matt Roberts: I don't. No. You're used to.

53:31David Law: That's kind of irritating.

53:33Matt Roberts: Yeah. I think I was an idiot. Like David.

53:40David Law: Yeah, I'm starting to think I was an idiot too. Yeah.

53:43Matt Roberts: Like, it's a useful word.

53:46David Law: Yeah. It is. Get over ourselves.

53:47Matt Roberts: That's what language is for. Like, it's not offensive. It's not gendered. That's a win.

53:53David Law: We're learning and growing.

53:55Matt Roberts: Look at us. Yeah. We're going to be using it all the time now.

53:58David Law: I know. People are going to get sick of it. They're going to be like, oh, talking about much again.

54:03Matt Roberts: I've got more other things to be annoyed about now. The roster is less space on it. This is a total, total tangent. But how does, speaking of you being annoyed about things, how does Mboko winning Montreal as a wild card make you feel about your position?

54:27David Law: More growing.

54:27Matt Roberts: you shit Matt look it's a blow if you're going to be building a big case you've got to be able to knock these arguments back I thought you'd be ready I thought you'd be ready for this well no because I present the pod so I thought you've got your firm hand on the tiller here Catherine I can silence the media look it's a blow undoubtedly and as I said last time we discussed this which I can't remember recently anyway, unfortunately it was recently that I declared my views on wildcards that the variety of wildcards I most enjoy and most support are young giving a leg up to young players and if there was a sort of scientific way to protect that variety of wildcard.

55:28Matt Roberts: I might be on board with that. But, yeah, I'd still... Shouldn't have been in the draw. Yeah, shouldn't have been in the draw. Yeah, go on. Take her trophy away now. Yeah. Yeah, Venus and Boko.

55:48David Law: By the way, great speeches after this match. And the other thing... Yes. And I particularly wanted to mention Hachinov because I don't feel like I've listened to many speeches from Hachinov over the years. I mean, I know he hasn't won that many tournaments, you know, but maybe I just haven't hung around for these speeches. But, blimey, heck. I think that's probably it. He is a grown-up. He is a grown-up, the way he talks. I mean, look, again, I know I perhaps look like a hypocrite because I'm prepared to give Osaka so much of a pass. But look, I feel like I can do both. I loved listening to Hachinov just talk about him and his kids.

56:37David Law: He says, we win together, we lose together. And he just thanked everybody in a sort of really genuine kind of way. and he really paid tribute to Shelton's family and how good for Shelton things are. How educated they are. Yeah, I just, I don't know, just... I thought, wow, this guy loves the sport. He knows he's got a good deal. He's earning a great living out of it. And sometimes we wonder, we're looking for meaning and relevance as part of a narrative. And of course we're going to do that. and I don't know how much more he's got in him but he certainly made me slightly rethink my framing of him as a bloke.

57:25Disco David has become a clutch and a Hachanov guy in one episode. I wasn't anticipating any of this. Just on Shelton, I think it's this tournament when obviously Sinner's not in the draw and an Alcaraz is not in the draw. It feels like an absolutely classic, like, how do you decipher meaning from that? Because, you know, I think Shelton's, you know, David was talking about who's going to step up. I do feel like Shelton has actually kind of put himself in the conversation this year in terms of being kind of the next best guy. If it's not Sinner, it's not Alcaraz. I mean, he's literally lost to Sinner and Alcaraz at the slams, hasn't he?

58:11Five in the race. Right. But he did need a win like this, I think, because, you know, he's been showing up at the slams, which is great. That's the most important thing. But I don't think he'd ever been beyond the quarters at a Masters 1000 before. And suddenly he's now broken through and actually won one. He also hadn't had a top 10 win all year, but he's got two in a row against De Menor and Taylor Fritz. And it was the Fritz match where I think that's the best I've seen Shelton play. Because he was so good from the baseline. and he was really good from the baseline against Dimonor as well. He won the long rallies against Alex Dimonor.

58:48I wouldn't have thought that would be possible for Ben Shelton. He didn't win the long rallies against Hakchanov, but he had his usual way of winning, which was to win the short rallies against Hakchanov. So he just had a bit more variety to his game. He was throwing in the slice a lot against Hakchanov, different pace balls. I think he exploited Fritz's movement in that matchup. It was just a lot of things that I thought Shelton did really well this tournament. And talking about him being clutch and him playing well in big moments, do you remember after he lost to Sinner at Wimbledon, he had a little bit of a crisis of confidence about that, where his serve deserted him in those big moments.

59:30I remember Matt Futterman was in that press conference, and he came out of it a bit like Shelton feels like he's maybe, you know, if he's not delivering in those big moments, and kind of what is he as a tennis player. But because that's always been his calling card. And that was back this tournament, you know, really back. You know, won those three deciding set tie breaks to win the thing. That's extremely impressive, I think. Took care of De Menor and Fritz without needing them. So this is, this just feels like, it just felt like Shelton took a step this week in terms of a lot of things, you know, beating top 10 players, showing more to his game.

1:00:08and yet that question remains did any of the things that he showed this week will he be able to bring them against Sinner and Alcaraz because he says himself when he plays Sinner it's like he's playing a guy playing at two times speed and he can't necessarily get into the rallies like he can against De Menor and Fritz so it remains a fascination to me what Shelton's ceiling is he He might have the highest ceiling out of anyone that isn't Sinner and Alcaraz at the moment. But can he actually beat them? Like, I don't know if we learned that this week. Because I just, it's such a different thing playing them to playing everyone else.

1:00:56Matt Roberts: Yeah. Yeah, I thought about asking. it felt like okay well I've got to ask the is Ben Shelton in the in the mix for the US Open question but it's a mix of two isn't it like yeah and look I've said I think there could be a US Open one day where Shelton takes advantage with the crowd behind him with that game and all of that I just don't doesn't seem to me like it's going to be this one Sinner's got a lot in the energy in the tank you know having had the three months off at the start of the year he's playing so well kind of the best ten of his life. Alcarez, I think, is in a much better place than he was at last year's US Open, for example.

1:01:35Like, I don't see any reason now, a few weeks out, why Alcarez and Sinner are going to drop the level going into New York. And I still think, as great as Shelton was this week, I still think that needs to happen for Shelton to actually win it, which might happen one year, but I wouldn't call it this year at the moment. Yeah.

1:01:59Matt Roberts: Having the highest ceiling of anybody but the two best players in the world whose floor is still higher than your ceiling is... Right.

1:02:10David Law: Yeah.

1:02:10Matt Roberts: It's like the Tom Womsgams quote about Greg inheriting five million, isn't it? You'll be the poorest rich person in America. No? Succession reference anybody? David, Disco David, I need you for my succession references.

1:02:31David Law: I don't know quite as if I know that you.

1:02:35Matt Roberts: Okay. One thing I would say on Shelton, I saw a video of him recently playing in 2017. He was being coached by Nick Bolitieri. And he's hitting quite rudimentary backhands in this Shelton. And it just made me think that he might have a lot more developing to go. Like, I think he's still relatively young in terms of his development. I know he's that, you know, I know he's not really young. What is he, 22? But in terms of like the amount of time that he's been like properly dedicated to tennis and he's not Alcaraz in that sense. If I compare the Alcaraz I saw in 2017, way ahead of where Ben Shelton was in 2017, it just feels like there's maybe more development to come from Shelton.

1:03:31I think we can be guilty of boxing players in. Maybe he won't develop more, but I think he's already showing some development. The backhand's way better than it was.

1:03:44Matt Roberts: Felt like he was reading Fritz's serve, the returns improved. I think I'm betting on there not being enough improvement to get past Sinu and Alcaraz. That's still my overall take. But I still think there's a lot more to come. And he might be able to narrow that gap, which over the last couple of years I've only thought was actually widening, if that makes sense. Yeah. And you'll have the crowd with him in New York. That'll help.

1:04:14David Law: I think that that could be a factor in as much as I do think that Alcraz in particular is vulnerable, as incredible as his top level is. I sort of think, well, if Shelton could get Alcraz's side of the draw, he's going to want to be in Alcraz's half, isn't he? And if somebody could, you know, sort out Sinner, you never know. Easy.

1:04:38Matt Roberts: Someone else do that hard job.

1:04:41David Law: Grigor wasn't far away, was he?

1:04:42Matt Roberts: I'll let Bertic take out Alcaraz and I'll cruise to the title that is how you win a Grand Slam folks David I was slightly worried about your body clock when you informed us that you had watched every point of Zverev's defeat to Hashanov because this took place in the dead of the night

1:05:02David Law: yeah that was also an early morning job I did no middle of the night watching or late night watching I have to do it in the morning but I stayed away from the results so that I could watch it as live. That's old school. I watched it really because I was curious. Zverev had given these quotes talking about how his conversations with Rafael Nadal had made him realise he's got to be more aggressive in the important moments and he's got to not wait. And he said, I knew this stuff, but Rafael Nadal said it, so now I know. And I was very curious to see, well, OK, well, what does that look like? And is that a thing?

1:05:46David Law: Look, he lost this in a deciding set tie break to Hachinov. He did have a match point where he hit a return that hit the tape. And, I mean, it's flip of the coin whether it goes over or not. And it came back his own side. And he got edged out. So the bad news is for Zverev is that he lost another match against another player. I mean, I have the list somewhere of the players he's lost to this year, and there's 15-odd different names on that list, and not all the usual suspects. I mean, he's lost some bad ones, a lot of them. And so what is this? It's a step in the right direction, is it, or not?

1:06:23David Law: He didn't win the tournament. But the good news is I did sense, from his perspective, a difference in the way he was trying to approach big moments. and he lost the first set of a few matches, Arnaldi, Poprin, but then he started to, well, he came back in them and he did, you know, in the first match he played against Adam Walton, everybody was going on about a 52-stroke rally as though it was this amazing thing and I just thought, no, it's not. It's just in lockdown mode, not wanting to miss and trying to dare his opponent to choke. And that's kind of what happened. But I saw some things from Zverev that I don't typically see.

1:07:14David Law: I saw him, having lost the first set, crowd in the baseline and kind of almost premeditated, decide to hit a forehand and come into the net, regardless of what the ball he's coming in off was like. and I thought, well that's different because normally he just stays at the back and waits and when he was getting to the net, I mean he's so big his wingspan is so immense that he can get to a hell of a lot of balls and he can make you miss and you don't have to hit the best volley in the world and actually when you looked at his net approaches, there were a lot of them in this Khachanov match, first set he did exactly what he's always done stayed way behind the baseline, got bullied and you know he's never going to win a Grand Slam doing that I mean I don't think he'll win a Grand Slam anyway as I've said many times but his best chance will be if he keeps this up which is trying to just step on it anyway even though I don't think he really believes in it or it really comes naturally he's doing it because he's he's done the rest of it for the last 10 years and that hasn't worked um and i'm i'm interested to see what happens my my guess is that because it's not in his dna really and he's actually got a bit of a clunky forehand in truth i don't think it'll stand up to to the uh sort of the eye really and and when it's really important but to scrutiny but it's the only way it's the only way he'll ever do what he actually wants to do

1:08:58Matt Roberts: you've got to be prepared to lose playing, you've got to commit to it so hard you're prepared to lose so we'll see it's interesting Julian Cash and Lloyd Glasspool good news for Matthew a little nod to Friends of the Tennis Podcast us there that will have heard Matthew's voice note, very unexpected voice note in our Wimbledon review show Cash and Glasspool have continued their absolutely extraordinary unbeaten run by winning the doubles title in Toronto, they obviously won the Wimbledon title but that is four titles and 19 matches in a row for these two, like unreal an absolutely unreal run from them, like they must just feel totally bulletproof and and in doubles of course with that shorter format you know it feels like the margins are so small like i'm going to use the word of the hour they must have been extremely clutch in this in this run there's been so many like match tie breaks that they've that they've managed to come through uh yeah it's a really impressive run i like it when a you know when a team builds up a bit of a you know a bit of dominance on the on the double swing like i think that's good i think that's good for doubles like when there's when there's a when there's a team that are together and are winning and feel strong and yeah i'm like i just find it more i just find it easier to engage with that narrative than like oh like who's playing together this week and kind of who's won this one like i think it's good and it's good for the tour that they're doing this it's it's it's bonkers to me and i think very harmful to the sort of brand of doubles that you have individuals becoming doubles number ones i think that is stupid um like you've got to maximize the team element yeah and yeah everything you've just said um okay that is it for Part two, part three, we'll talk about Cincinnati that has, of course, already begun.

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1:12:41Matt Roberts: Before we talk about Cincinnati, some bits and bobs of coaching news kind of over the last few days. We've had the news that Emma Raducanu is going to be working with Francisco Roig, who was coach, sort of secondary coach to Rafael Nadal for many, many years. What do we think of this? I last saw Francisco Roig at the nightclub in Indian Wells that I still can't remember the name of. I can't believe I'm blanking on this. The Nest. Yeah. The Nest. Last time I saw Francisco Roig, he was having quite a good time at the Nest. Disco Francisco. Oh my God, it just came to me. Wow, we should do Friday night podcasts more often.

1:13:33Matt Roberts: I have got video of it that I will release for a price. Before I get myself in more trouble, David, Matt, what do we think of this partnership? I mean, I don't really know what to make of Francisco Roig as a as a coach really oh i've i have seen the video um look he obviously had that success with nadal i don't know how transferable that role is to this i know he's worked a little bit with sloan stevens i think in in the past as well um the one thing i would say is i know that tomaini carryall of the guardian spoke i think exclusively to radhakanu out in cincinnati and I just really liked Raducanu's own assessment of where she is right now.

1:14:22She said, I've been good at being creative, scrapping, playing the big points well, but the overall quality of my game needs to be better. And I see that when I play the really top players where I can't run and I can't scrap. I have to wait on them to miss a bit. That's where I need to improve. That's where I'm hoping he can help me. And I just felt, I thought like that was a really good self-evaluation. I feel like the one thing about Raducanu is like, I know she's had all these coaches, but I do think she knows her own game. Maybe because of those coaches, you know, she's often been having to sort of think about what it is she wants to get out of a coaching partnership.

1:15:05So look, I have absolutely no idea, to be quite honest, whether Francisco Roig is the right guy to do that. But I'm pretty encouraged that Raducanu sees that as the task at hand because that does totally strike me as the next step. I think she's been playing, you know, probably the most consistent tennis of her career this season and trying to make that jump and hurt the top players is a big leap to make. But I think, you know, she's targeting that and absolutely hope that Francisco Roy can do it. It's obviously come about because Mark Petchy isn't committing to Emma Adekanu because of all of his broadcasting commitments.

1:15:52So I think she needed someone who could be there all the time, even though I'm sure Adekanu and Petchy are still in touch.

1:16:02Matt Roberts: Holgeruna has hired Marco Panici who is one half of the duo that Yannick Sinner sacked after Haller I don't know why that's funny but it is It's very Holgeruna isn't it? Yeah To mop up a sort of semi-discredited staff member from the sidelines I think it's quite a good move. Yeah. Yeah, probably. He needs serious people around him. He's a fitness trainer. I've often had a lot of concerns about Runa's fitness in big matches and lasting on the tour. I think he needed someone like that. As you said, the way he left the Sinner team, we don't really know. I think there was talk about an interview, wasn't there, that Panicci gave and sort of breaking the trust of Sinner maybe.

1:17:05But, you know, that's still a bit unclear to me. But I don't know. I think it's not the worst hire Runa's done, I don't think.

1:17:18Matt Roberts: No, it's interesting that he's... Panicci and Badio, I thought they only came as a team. I'd like to know the behind the scenes of Panici taking a job without Badio. Was it like, oh, David, help me out, Nottingham Forest, Brian Clough and his...

1:17:41David Law: Peter Taylor, my word, Catherine. That's going back before my time.

1:17:46Matt Roberts: Well, no, I've seen the film, haven't I? I've seen The Damned United.

1:17:51David Law: he always seems pretty no-nonsense that Paniccio I remember he was one of the few who seemed to be prepared to shout back at Novak Djokovic and Goran was always saying he used Marco as the bloke to get the messages across because he got the biggest booming voice but yeah I mean it's a pretty good pedigree really in terms of players he's worked for who've done pretty well

1:18:16Matt Roberts: we've got Dennis Schneider working with Sasha Byan Bayern obviously having recently split from Donna Vekic having well not added a great line to his CV in terms of the results that Donna Vekic had while working with him but Dana Schneider's giving that a go she's had a disappointing season Schneider after a really big breakthrough last year I think it's not a disaster but I think people are expecting more so we will see on that front And now a couple of bits of news reported by The Athletic. One is that Irina Sabalenka has added Max Murney to her team as a consultant for Cincinnati and the US Open.

1:19:01Matt Roberts: I've got in the agenda here, David knows Max. I did not know Disco David knew Max Murney. Have you got some crazy story about Max Murney from back in the day?

1:19:13David Law: The beast, Max the beast, Murney.

1:19:15Matt Roberts: he was no ass uh he was a good player um was he one of was he new balls please yes he was yeah yeah

1:19:23David Law: going way back um i knew him when i was on the atp tour a lovely fellow really charming guy um one of boletieri's sort of students you know used to used to love talking about max murley um and max i mean i haven't seen him for many years but i know that he had a brain tumor quite recently and was was really unwell um but thankfully it appears you know is is is doing well now and and i'm i'll be really pleased to see him you know it's um i was shocked to hear about how unwell he was but um but no it's great that he's uh he's going to be back on the scene and and what i would say is he is somebody who will keep things light you know he's a he's easy going he's a great communicator I think he'll be a good I mean aside from his knowledge of tennis which is which is high I think I think he will be a good guy to be around good to know

1:20:24Matt Roberts: some other news just broken in the athletic is that Stefano Vukov is free to return to the Elena Rabakina coaching box. David, this is hot off the press. You got wind of it earlier on this evening. It's now being reported by The Athletic, which means it's confirmed, and indeed the WTA have confirmed it. They have said that while case details remain confidential, we can confirm that Mr Vukov is eligible to receive credentials at WTA events. and they said they won't be commenting any further. He was obviously handed a one-year ban from receiving credentials at WTA events earlier this year. That suspension does appear to have been lifted.

1:21:20Matt Roberts: We knew that he was appealing that ban and that that appeal took place just before Wimbledon, I think, entered Vukov into private arbitration with the tour as part of the appeal. and the hearing took place just before Wimbledon and it does appear that he's been successful in that appeal and he is clear to be accredited at WTA events and I would expect to see him back in Cincinnati.

1:21:54David Law: Yeah, I mean, either there or the US Open unless something else happens. But, yeah, I heard that just before we came on air and sent a note across to the WTA who sent us and the Athletic that statement. I'm not that surprised given just things that I was hearing about it. But it will be very interesting to see whether it goes any further, really, because they were pretty steadfast in their view of that suspension at the time. So we'll see. Yeah, absolutely.

1:22:37Matt Roberts: In terms of Cincinnati itself, it's got a new look for 2025. What's actually different, Matt, about Cincinnati? Well, a lot. I mean the court colours it used to be blue on green it's now blue on blue it's much sort of giving Australian Open, Australia swing vibes the look to the court and it's had a huge renovation the site $260 million renovation Matt Futterman was reporting in the Athletic and you know I think they I think they kind of thought they had to you know that obviously ben navarro was potentially going to move it they decided to keep it in cincinnati and they've expanded the site i think i think honestly to keep up with the demand now for these two week long masters 1000 events when there's so many more people coming through the gates and there's more opportunities for hospitality and all that kind of thing and there's more players on site any bigger areas and all that kind of thing so i think the players are are very happy with the improvements that have been made.

1:23:45Certainly that was what Matt Futterham was reporting. They buy out the neighbouring golf course for the week so that players and their teams can play. Carlos Alcaraz and Kaspar Rood were playing golf today together.

1:24:00Matt Roberts: They should buy out Kings Island. You've been there. I would be there in a heartbeat if it was unfettered access to the adjacent theme park, I would not be on this podcast right now. God, that was a good day at that theme park. Did sort of get mild whiplash though, which wasn't great. Anyway, what have we seen so far? Novak Djokovic withdrew before the tournament, obviously Mboko and Osaka have both withdrawn. Artifis is out Jack Draper withdrew a while ago Mira Andreva is also missing, yeah he's not missing though, Caroline Garcia Everyone remember her retirement ceremony? It was a shock to me that she was in the draw

1:24:56Matt Roberts: Paola Badosa's withdrawal from the US Open means Elise Corne is the next player in the draw, she was sitting with us in the press room at Wimbledon what's going on by the way by the way the garcia she won today she beat she beat sonny cartel one of one of the funniest uh miss misunderstandings miscommunications i've ever seen during that match she garcia asked uh the ball kid to go over to her team for her and get some gut she was talking about string gut string the ball kid i think slightly well definitely misunderstood caroline garcia and went over to her team and said she's asked for some yogurt and they were like huh what so then she had to go back and garcia was like gut oh no no not yogurt string i need i need string i need to restring my racket it was i've probably not done that clip justice I think it's doing the rounds it was so funny and I just I just really enjoyed it it reminded me of when I was um ill at a champions tour event in Chengdu and after sort of three days of fever dream locked in my hotel room I eventually emerged looking sort of very pale and not having eaten for a few days and uh thought that you know the safest thing for me to to to venture to eat is toast so i explained to a very trying to be helpful member of tournament staff that that i would like some toast um and he was next scene wandering back into the room clutching a toaster blessing which must have been so much sort of more complicated to acquire than just some toast.

1:26:51Matt Roberts: Bless him. Joel Fonseca has already won a match, beat Yung Chaukete Bu in 7-5 in the third. And he needed a win, really, Fonseca. He's in the sort of did we overhype him category. And I'm not asking that question of anybody in particular. I'm just throwing it out there in general. But he could do with a win or two, Joel Fonseca. Pesci Perikar's had a bit of a tough period hasn't he? Tough season really He lost to the young player from Hong Kong Coleman Wong 6-3, 6-2 That is a name to look out for Marketa Vondroshova has already thrashed Jacqueline Christian And a bit of a tough season for my fantasy team actually Christian and Boone both in there Not been exactly racking up the points for me That means we get Vondroshova-Sabalenka in round two.

1:27:47Matt Roberts: Yes, please, to that. And Venus Williams got a world card. She lost to Jessica Boutas-Monero, four and four. So the men's draw, we have a top half that includes Yannick Sinner, Tommy Paul, Kasper Rude, Lorenzo Mazzetti, Taylor Fritz, Alejandro Davidovic, Shokina, Flavio Caboli, Francis Tiafoe and Holger Runa. And the bottom half is where you find Alcaraz, Rublev, Mensic, Domino, Zverev, Medvedev and Shelton. And then the top half of the women's is Sabalenka, Raducanu, Fernandes, Samsonova, Rabakina, Kij, Shvantech, Schneider and Anisimova. And the bottom half has Goff, Ostapenko, Svitolina, Paolini, Pegula, Bencic, Towson, Mukova and Navarro.

1:28:30Matt Roberts: So that'll all be unfolding over the course of the next 12 days, something like that. The finals, of course, taking place on a Monday because great. Why wouldn't you? Great plan, everybody. Well done. Good job, lads. Great process. It of course means that our schedule is a bit all over the place. But we do have a couple of shows over the next week to cover Cincinnati. When is our next show? Tuesday. That's the plan. We're going Tuesday, Friday, Tuesday? Yeah. Yeah. Tuesday, Friday, Tuesday, folks. It's catchy. Let's make it catch on. And of course, the second Tuesday of those shows will be live just like this one, except we will be in New York.

1:29:23Matt Roberts: Crazy, crazy how quickly that has come around. Folks, this has been such a fun episode. Maybe we should Friday night it more often. Bring back Disco David. What a fun time. hello to our mascots hello Phoebe, hello Maisie and hello Roger hello to our top folks and executive producers Greg, Chris and Jeff Greg sent us a photo earlier of the venue for our New York live show he must have been wandering past the area and it made me very very excited, I am very very excited about the live show so thank you Greg shout out to The Athletic We're, of course, part of the Athletic Podcast Network. They've been doing great journalism.

1:30:10Matt Roberts: They've just broken that Vukov-Robachina story. Check out their work. And, Matt, we have some shout-outs tonight. Disco shout-outs. We do. We have Ian Farrand in Winchester. Hello, Ian, in Winchester. Lovely neck of the woods, Winchester. Not that far from here. And Ian... Good cathedral. Ian's a long-time listener. And this year, he, his wife and his three girls are going to be in New York for the US Open. They're going to go to fan week, going to go to the mixed doubles and the first, one of the early days of the tournament proper as well. So hopefully we'll see Ian there. Love that. Oh, Ian, yes, please, please say hello somehow.

1:30:59Matt Roberts: Drop us a note on Instagram and we'll try and find a way to come and say hi. brilliant have a great time in New York Ian cheers Ian it's not a very Tennessee name Ian is it

1:31:09David Law: Ian Flanagan Catherine you keep forgetting

1:31:13Matt Roberts: Flanmania yeah Flanmania is a very Friday night energy isn't it Ian thank you for giving us the opportunity to talk about Flanmania again we've also got Sam Wood and she's from Barkshire Catherine Crowthorn oh yeah no Crowthorn

1:31:33David Law: we know Sam Sam often says hello to us at tennis tournaments and is a barge member

1:31:40Matt Roberts: yes I didn't know Sam was from Crowthorne Sam says that she had a lovely chat with Catherine David on the steps outside Suzanne Longland yes but you didn't mention that you're from Crowthorne Sam buried the lead two stops on from my well it's where my parents still live so maybe I shouldn't disclose the location. But two stops on from Wynersh on the train line. Crowthorne, there you go. Lovely stuff. Thank you, Sam. Like Sam Stoser. Yes. Very good. Former US Open champion. And we've also got Judy Singleton, who is from Rocky Hill, New Jersey. Judy. Of course.

1:32:32David Law: Judy Dalton

1:32:33Matt Roberts: got a New Jersey and Judy Murray yeah and Judy says for many years I went to the US Open with my dad and about five years in a row we were rained out before there were roofs one year we were leaving ash due to the rain and we ran into Bud Collins in front of the media centre we got to chat to him for a bit and he was so friendly it made the rainy day a bit brighter

1:33:00David Law: this is epic I don't remember the rain at the US Open. Oh, dear.

1:33:06Matt Roberts: I definitely remember rain, David.

1:33:08David Law: No, but rain just stop in play for days on end. Yeah, to keep having Monday finals.

1:33:16Matt Roberts: Judy, thank you. Judy, Ian and Sam, thank you ever so much for being friends of the Tennis Podcast. If you would like to become a friend of the Tennis Podcast, get access to the Barge, our safe, fun community space, all of our bonus episodes, Tennis Relived, the review shows that we do after every slam, we do a live YouTube show once a month. You get ad-free listening as well and a bunch of other stuff. Then the link to do that is in our show notes. Thank you for joining us live if you did tonight. Hello to Hannah in the chat, who's obviously had a fact to hand about Crowthorne, incredibly. And yeah, thank you very much for listening, everybody.

1:33:57please do join us again for our next podcast on Tuesday.

1:34:02Matt Roberts: Tuesday, Friday, Tuesday, folks. Keep saying it over and over. Maybe we'll remember. Tuesday, Friday, Tuesday. Thank you for listening. We'll speak to you then.

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