Canada - Who will take their chance with the big names out?

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1:46Matt Roberts: Hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast and happy August one and all. A month that will soon slip away like a bottle of wine. So we'll make the most of it while it's here. Joining me today, he's living for the hope of it all, Matt Roberts, everybody. How are you doing, Matt?

2:05Catherine Whitaker: Very well, thank you. We've just had our recording delayed by some thrilling cricket that we all watched the conclusion of. and back to full strength on the Tennis Podcast this week. Thrilled that David is back with us.

2:20Matt Roberts: Yeah, don't call it a comeback. Friends of the Tennis Podcast will already know that David is back. We soft-launched his return on our Friends Q &A show last week, but let's call this the Hard Launch David Law Comeback. Hello, David.

2:35David Law: I've never been hard-launched before. I feel great. That sounds like something that young people do, and I'm not one of those anymore. And yes, I made my soft launch come back by messing up the stream the other day. So I'm trying very hard not to mess anything up on this.

2:54Matt Roberts: Yes, David has been granted by me a one week grace period post-holiday of forgetting how to podcast. 30 seconds before going live for our friend show last week, David said, I'm too relaxed. I've had too good a holiday. And then 30 seconds later, we were we were busy not going on air when we when we thought we were going on air. So, look, of all the reasons to be to be substandard at podcasting, I think a relaxed David Law is is the best possible reason. Yeah, I agree.

3:30David Law: And my back's on the mend as well. now after my golf catastrophe last week when I was on the seventh hole and I did a practice swing and then froze solid and then got buggyed off the court. The court, the course, because yeah, I couldn't move. And now I can move. So, you know, things are on the up.

3:52Matt Roberts: Yes, David rated his holiday 10 out of 10, despite it ending with paralysis on a golf course. So So that's how good the preceding 10 days of the holiday were. But don't worry, folks, it's a comeback in all respects. David is on the mend and we have been very much enjoying the tennis that we've been watching over the past few days. From, of course, Toronto and Montreal, we have reached the quarterfinal stage. The finals of both events will take place on Thursday because that is how tennis is moving and shaking these days. The quarterfinals are split over two days. Let's start in Montreal, shall we, where the quarterfinal line-up looks thus.

4:35Matt Roberts: Victoria Mboko will take on Jessica Butas-Monero. Marta Kostiuk faces Elena Rabakina. Alina Svitolina up against Naomi Osaka. And Madison Keyes against Clara Towson. Matt, David, what has stood out for you from what we've seen so far in Montreal? What's been your favourite story? Matt Roberts.

5:01Catherine Whitaker: Oh, good question. My favourite story, I think probably Victoria Mboko. You know, it was a it was kind of a tough tournament for the Canadians early on here, like across both the men and the women. there was obviously Bouchard's retirement that had a lot of attention and there was a really big good atmosphere that night but otherwise like it was defined by losses for a lot of their homegrown players and their talents Leila Fernandez coming off the Washington title was very unhappy with the scheduling of her match and she lost early to Maya Joint Denis Shapovalov and Felix or she had a seam lost in quite a sort of sad manner.

5:45Catherine Whitaker: And I just think for a nation that's had all these great talents and breakthroughs of the last few years, kind of seeing that cohort, you know, just struggling a little bit at that home tournament was a bit of a tough scene. But enter Victoria Mboko, who has obviously been such a shining light on the tour generally this season and has won so many matches when you take into account the lower levels that she's been winning at consistently as well. And she's just absolutely risen to the occasion and she has become the home star of this tournament. And obviously it all came together in that win over Coco Goff the other night, the top seed in Montreal.

6:26Catherine Whitaker: Just an absolutely incredibly poised, impressive performance from her in a big atmosphere, a big night session occasion. and look, Goff did not have anywhere near her best game but I was really struck by how Mboko handled the moment and handled the stage and it just felt like one of those moments where a lot more people will start to take notice of Mboko. Real tennis fans are aware of the talent but that was a bit of a match and a moment that I think will hopefully open up her game and her talent to some more casual fans and they'll be aware of her and they'll follow her and I just thought it was awesome seeing her handle that spotlight.

7:09Catherine Whitaker: So I think that was my sort of moment of the tournament so far.

7:14Matt Roberts: Yeah, I think it's fair to say that we're all, David, on board the Victorian Boko hype train, right? Yeah, yeah, I think that's fair.

7:22David Law: And I think it's really great that she's doing this so soon after the breakout at the French Open in particular and other results, you know, in the clay court season. And it would have been very easy for her to have that as the highlight of the year and not really be able to do anything else. When she gets the wild card, you know, there's suddenly a lot of hype around and a lot of people at home are expecting a lot of her. And she's not only met those expectations, she's surpassed them. And she's done it in a manner that makes me feel like there should be kind of hope for the future as well. It doesn't feel like she's just riding some adrenaline wave.

8:01David Law: This seems to be a very contained game that she's got, a repeatable game that hurts, but doesn't look like it's just sort of thrashing at the ball. You know, there is a very good base to what she has. And I think she's very exciting for the future. I mean, I'm mindful that we've seen breakouts, particularly from Canada, actually. You know, you listed some of those names there and anything can happen and she will have different types of pressures over the course of time. But I didn't expect her to be quite this far along. Even when we saw her at the French, I wouldn't have expected her to be doing this by this time.

8:41This is not a suggestion, Matt.

8:44Matt Roberts: I would never. Just genuine curiosity. Is she where is she proximate to the backhand list currently?

8:54Catherine Whitaker: well for those of us who watched our shows on tennis channel during queens you will know that we ran a we ran a section on the backhand list and we also did a little watch list section and victoria mboko was on the watch list and very much remains there with you know she might be first on the watch list she might be the next in if anyone is to fall from the backhand list in the next few months i would i would suspect that mboko might be the one to to replace them it's a hell of a shot isn't it particularly down the line the way she cracks it down the line it's the down the line one that makes me feel things and the forehand technique is kind of funky she kind of hits across the ball a little bit it doesn't look like that reliable a shot it kind of does a lot of damage but the backhand is the more solid production i think of stroke and it does a lot of damage as well and it backs up a big serve and a big game generally and look she played she played golf didn't she earlier earlier in the season in rome and pushed her threatened her in that in that first set but kind of couldn't keep it up but here against a different coco golf i just was impressed with the way umboko yeah rose to that occasion i watched her from the front row at wimbledon against hayley baptiste on one of the outside courts and i was struck then by kind of how on eggs she seemed the entire match even though she was leading in that first set she never felt like she had her nerves kind of under control and I thought that might take some time to to come with with maturity but this just seemed like a really mature performance the other night she just kept it kept it together so well even when Goff was threatening a little bit more in that second set she had to save some break points didn't she but yeah I was just impressed And as you said, the backhand is kind of the leading shot.

10:50Catherine Whitaker: And I very much, very much have my eye on it, of course.

10:54Matt Roberts: It was one and four against Coco Goff. So not even close, really. Although, as you say, there were those break points she had to fend off in the second set, which she did. And I believe this is the only match all year where Coco Goff hasn't broken serve. And frankly, right now, if she's not breaking serve, she doesn't stand a chance of winning a tennis match because of the state her own serve is in, which is, David, a very, very bad one. I mean, I watched pretty much all of both her prior two matches in this tournament before the Mboko match against Daniel Collins and Veronica Kudomitova, two three set wins.

11:37Matt Roberts: Utterly compelling in the way that bad Coco Goff matches often are. but 37 double faults across those two matches like the Collins match in particular was an absolute shit show like a glorious shit show I loved it um but a shit show yeah I mean there

12:01David Law: I can't think of too many matches that I've ever seen where somebody's hit 23 double faults in a three-set match and won it and it's it's a great credit to her that she finds ways we were watching the next one together when she was down and and like a long way down against Krematova and and Matt just said I just always expect her to win these matches and I thought no chance she was a set in a breakdown I think at the time and I looked an hour later she's then set all on 5-2 up and I'm thinking okay well I guess she just pulled things together but when when I've watched highlights and watched some of this match against Mboko in particular I was struck by just how lost she looked confused she looked about why it's going wrong she just was there was a lot of times when she would hit a double fault and it wasn't like missing a bit long it was sort of missing wide of the center service line and it wasn't even going in the right direction you know and and and she would then turn around and look at her team and just she always seems so secure in her own mind about what she's trying to do and what she maybe needs to do to put it right and and she finds a way to do that but i i just detected somebody who's who's very confused right now and that must be a horrible feeling when you're as experienced as coca goff is that you've won two grand slams one of them quite recently you've come off the back of that where is the game gone how have you gone from grand slam champion to this in the space of three months and barely won matches.

13:39David Law: It's very surprising.

13:42Matt Roberts: And yet, David, because of who she is, and there is nobody else on the planet that I would say this about, the fact that her game looks in an absolute state right now doesn't actually have much impact on how I feel about her chances of winning the US Open in a few weeks' time. Matt and I joked while you were still going down water slides in Portugal David after the Danielle Collins match that like you know we were talking about how dreadful it was and we both sort of cracked the same joke at the same time which was oh she's probably going to win the US Open and like she's not my pick for the US Open Matt but I'm absolutely not counting her out despite how crap it looks right now

14:30Catherine Whitaker: Yeah I think what we've learnt about Coco Gauff in the last year or so is that she's probably never as high as you think she is because the technical flaws are always lurking and they can come in seemingly out of nowhere. Like the way they did earlier on in the season, in the Middle East swing and the sunshine double, off the back of some really good tennis she played at the end of last season and the start of this season at the United Cup, I suddenly thought, right, OK, that is now Coco Goff's level. But suddenly the double faults came back. But then she's never as low as you think she is either because she's Coco Gauff and she's so resilient.

15:08Catherine Whitaker: She's so incredibly mentally strong and talented generally that she can flip that form on its head and suddenly she can go and win a Grand Sam title. I mean, a couple of years ago, it was the, you know, the kind of nadir was that performance against Kennan at Wimbledon, wasn't it? And then she won the next slam. and earlier on in this season we've had that low point through the Middle East swing and and the sunshine double and then she goes in and wins the next slam at Roland Garros as well but what I would say is that she did find form before those slams both times you know like two years ago Washington and Cincinnati she won and then she won the US Open as well and obviously this year she had the finals in Madrid and Rome didn't she like she so she went into those slams off the back of some pretty recent really big struggles with her game but also just finding form in the nick of time and i feel like for her to win the us open it does feel like cincinnati is pretty big for her like she needs to show some signs of you know at least the game coming along better and not having all the double fault issues and and that kind of thing so i think it's a big big couple of weeks coming up for Coco Gauff but yeah it is extraordinary the way that the way that these technical problems can just come and go and I say technical problems I do think they are technical I think you know they've tried to make big changes wouldn't haven't they with the with the grip and there's definitely technical issues there it was interesting hearing her talk about him as kind of mental issues as well because she didn't hit a double fault in the doubles match that she played the other day and And she said that she wants to be able to serve in singles like she's serving in the double.

16:54Catherine Whitaker: She says something about having a partner and, you know, not like all the intensity and the pressure coming on my serve every time. She said it kind of frees her up a little bit. So I think it's a classic case of these things are often a bit of both, right? A bit technical and a bit mental. I think she's in that space at the moment. So like a lot of work to do, not much time to do it. but if anyone can if anyone can come from this kind of slump and in a few weeks time be playing Grand Slam winning tennis it is Coco Gauff so like don't write her off but at the moment yeah it's been pretty dismal run of results and forms since Roland Garros hasn't it

17:38Matt Roberts: What about Iga Shiontek then? Looked to be absolutely cruising we've all listened to the interview that she did on Andy Roddick's served podcast recently where she just sounded like a a different person to the one that we've been encountering in in press conferences over the last six nine twelve months like relaxed and happy and enjoying her tennis and and her life and seeming relatively by her standards stress-free and kind of liberated from the from the prison that the that the positive test seemed to seem to kind of place her in at the end of last year and big hangover into this year, I think.

18:19Matt Roberts: And that seemed to be being reflected in her tennis through the opening couple of matches she played in Canada. Very straightforward wins over Jo Han Yu and Ava Lees as well. And then, then David, she runs into Clara Towson. Different story altogether.

18:39David Law: These things can happen. And Towson has a bit of the Ostapenkos about her. in the way that she tees off on the return. And that's what struck me, is that she was waiting for that kick serve taken at the top of the bounce and absolutely crushing it. And that impacts Svantec, even when Svantec's playing well. That sort of game can hurt her still. And she was doing some other things well. She was throwing in some drop shots, some of which Svantec got to quite comfortably because she's such a good mover. and then there were some really really high balls that were bouncing on the baseline and there was one contentious line call I say that I mean look it's it's the Hawkeye live uh but you know there was one of those that Shrantech clearly didn't believe was was quite right that landed you know went halfway up to the moon and then came down um but the and the wind I think I think the wind was bothering a little bit you know occasionally suddenly coming up and and that sort of thing but this was Towson showing what she's actually capable of, I think, if she plays her best stuff.

19:47David Law: I don't think there's anything to worry about there for Sviantek. I think it's pretty amazing that she played this tournament, given all the withdrawals on the men's side, for the champion of Wimbledon with such little turnaround to come in and play the thing and have a couple of wins and be beaten in a hard-fought match like that. I would say, you know, I look at the losses she's had and Goff's had, and I agree with you. I think Goff needs some positive shoots in order to get a real US Open contending run together. Whereas I think Shrantec's just about where she needs to be. And I don't expect her to just dominate this stretch of tournaments.

20:31David Law: But I actually think now she gets a few extra days off and so forth. But, yeah, it's interesting.

20:39Matt Roberts: Yeah, no longer is doing the Canada-Cincinnati back-to-back thing. I think it's, A, going to be incredibly rare for any player to pull that off. But I, B, think it actually could be counterproductive to do that. I don't actually think it'll be a good thing now for a player to do the double in terms of prospects for the US Open, just because of the sheer length of the events now. Do you agree, Matt, that this was one of those where it was way more significant for Towson than it was for Svantec?

21:16Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I do agree. I think, look, Towson has shown herself to be really dangerous this year, hasn't she? She's beaten Sabalenka this year. She beat Rabatkin at Wimbledon. Very impressive wins, those. And she's one of the best servers in the world. And, you know, given that she was serving well, particularly on break points in the first set, as David said, she was then always a threat on return game. You felt like, OK, even if she wasn't necessarily getting into all of them, she had the chance to be dangerous on the return when it was there for her. And, yeah, it is the kind of game style that can be tricky for Svjantek.

21:52Catherine Whitaker: I think post-Wimbledon, Svantec is going to be fascinating because my read on what happened at Wimbledon was that a lot of why she was able to play her best and why she did so well was because the pressure was slightly off, or if not off, different. And she was a bit more under the radar. Well, winning Wimbledon immediately thrust you back into that she's a favourite to win again and a contender for everything again. and does one Wimbledon title, which is obviously a huge deal. She wouldn't trade it for anything, but it doesn't necessarily change the fact that for a year she hadn't won a title.

22:32Catherine Whitaker: She has been vulnerable in the closing stages of tournaments here. There have been issues with her game that we've seen this year. Has all of that gone away just because she's won Wimbledon? I'm not so sure. I definitely think she's among the favourites to win the US Open, for sure. But it doesn't necessarily strike me that like Sviontek, as we knew her a couple of years ago, kind of dominating everything is necessarily back. Do you know what I mean? Like, I just think she's going to have to deal with that pressure again and, you know, maybe cover up some of the holes in her game that have appeared.

23:10Catherine Whitaker: And I back her to do it over the long run. Like, I think Sviontek is back in terms of, as I said, being a contender and a real threat to win these biggest tournaments. And she will be winning them. But I think she's also a little bit more vulnerable still than she was when she was on her streak, for example, or when she's had the periods of her best tennis. So it's an interesting place to find her in. I think she said, didn't she, that no matter the results of any other tournament, she's happy with her season now because she's won Wimbledon. And I believe her when she says that. And I do think it has generally helped create a bit of a lightness around her and is going to help her over the course of these next few months.

23:56Catherine Whitaker: But that's not to say that she's going to be sweeping up and dominating everything. I wouldn't be surprised if players like Clara Towson, And there's a few of them, big hitters, informed players can keep causing her problems, as we've seen through the whole year. So, yeah, just absolutely fascinating where Igor Sviantek is right now.

24:18Matt Roberts: For Clara Towson, it's Madison Keyes in the quarterfinal. She saved match points last night to beat Karolina Mukova. Also got her revenge over Lara Siegmund earlier in the week. for Madison Keys, I'd say.

24:37Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I almost said Madison Keys when you asked me what my moment of the week of the tournament was because I was so swept up in that win yesterday over Mukovo. It felt like a bit of a win-win, to be honest, because it was nice to see Mukovo back playing much better tennis again.

24:54Matt Roberts: Calling losing from match points up a win. That's how bad things have been

25:00Catherine Whitaker: for Karolina Mukovo, isn't it? She was hitting double-handed backhands, which she just wasn't doing earlier in the summer. So that was a win. And some of the stuff she conjured up in that third set, if anyone wants a reminder of what Mukova can do, try and watch the two-all game in that third set. There was a shot behind the back. She actually lost that point, but she held from Love 40 down. The look on Keys' face said it all. Like, how are you getting my power back? How are you pulling off these little touch shots? And it was brilliant. But then Madison Keyes did what Madison Keyes has done a lot this year, which was, you know, just go for it when she's down.

25:40Catherine Whitaker: And she just pulled the trigger on one of these shots on the match point. It hit the line and she ends up winning from saving the match points. And it was just a reminder of the drama that Madison Keyes has brought to the tour this year. So I loved that match as well. And, you know, I thought we were going to be on for a Keys-Sviontech rematch. I say rematch, you know, I'm obviously thinking about their Australian Open semifinal, which in my mind is still one of the absolute highlights of the year. But obviously the draw has kind of not gone that way. And now Madison Keys has Towson instead. So, yeah, that was a real highlight for me, that match.

26:16Matt Roberts: Is Mooker still in your fantasy team, David? Did you hang on to her? No. I don't blame you I mean she literally she didn't have a double handed backhand I traded her in for Leila Fernandez

26:31David Law: and immediately won Washington so I'm going to call that a win but yes I do watch Mukova and think how can you let this player go but it was wow it was fun that match and then at the end just to see Keyes just make Mukova irrelevant in the closing stages was also very entertaining. She would have made anybody irrelevant, the way she hit the ball. It was like, I'm going to either win this or not. It's really that simple. Yeah.

27:04Matt Roberts: Keyes-Swiątek and Swiątek-Anisimova are both matches that Matt had sort of penciled into his diary for this week that aren't going to happen.

27:15Catherine Whitaker: Just didn't see Clara Towson coming, obviously.

27:19David Law: Well, you know you should learn your lesson.

27:23Matt Roberts: Amanda Anisimova would have been playing Naomi Osaka in the quarterfinals had she not lost to Alina Svitolina, quite handily in fact. I watched some of this in a bit of a haze in the middle of the night. I woke up, checked the tennis scores, thought, huh, popped it on. Svitolina was brilliant, but I think Anisimova ill, that, and like genuinely ill, not Berlin ill? Or was it Bad Homburg? Not tanking anyway, genuinely ill.

27:54Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, because she'd been absolutely brilliant against Emma Raducanu. Like just a phenomenal performance from Anissimova against a player who's caused a lot of problems this year. You know, she was 0-2 against Raducanu this year. But, you know, I would use the phrase that David just used there about Madison Keyes and Mukova, Anisimova just made Raducanu irrelevant, just hit her off the court.

28:19Matt Roberts: It was like nearly 30 winners or something, wasn't it?

28:21Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, like she was just seeing the ball brilliantly. And I just thought, well, Anisimova's playing really, really well. But I did think Svitolina would be tricky with, you know, just so tenacious and makes you fight for every ball and kind of makes you doubt yourself, I think, as well, Svitolina, when you can't necessarily hit through her. and Svitolina has been playing well and was great, but yes, Sinisimova, it was a poor performance, very error-ridden, and she said afterwards that she was feeling ill. It wasn't a tank like Berlin when she just had enough matches on the grass. It was, yeah, she genuinely did seem a bit compromised, but Svitolina was great.

29:02Matt Roberts: So Svitolina against Osaka will be one of the two quarterfinals to be played tomorrow, as well as Madison Keyes against Clara Towson. Naomi Osaka. Another highlight. You talked about, you know, the need for green shoots. I see green shoots in Naomi Osaka. Now, this might not be a neutral take because I might be seeing what I want to see, but her victory over Lyudmila Samsonova a couple of rounds ago saving match points along the way that is exactly David the type of match that she has been losing so much of our analysis of Naomi Osaka over the past few weeks and months has been she's got to win one of these soon and that could make things click for her well look it's early days but that Samsonova win feels like it could have been it to me.

30:00David Law: Yeah, she's my story really, I think overall, Osaka I, Mboko, of course we've already talked about, but Osaka because I don't know how many more of these she could have taken, really in the long run, how many times can you know you're this good and just not be getting results and she's made the coaching change one I absolutely applaud in changing Patrick Moratoglu for Thomas Witkowski I think that's a really good move. And, I mean, look, trying to establish cause and effect, I think, is impossible, really, at this point. What you've got to do is give her the credit, because she's playing against Lidmina Samsonova, absolutely a match I thought she was going to lose.

30:46David Law: I watched the first set and a half of it before leaving for the airport to come home from my holiday, and she just couldn't make any impact. She would just lose an early game at the start of a set. And then she wasn't able to claw it back. Some son of a just swings and connects. And when she's like that, she's very difficult to stop. Get to the airport, watching the live scores, listening to Matt's reaction on our WhatsApp thread. And suddenly she saved match points. And suddenly she's turning it around. and I said to you guys at the time when she won that I just felt this is it this feels like a really seminal moment for her a line in the sand where she's just she's won a match that didn't look likely she's lost so many of them I sometimes wonder about the sliding doors of if she'd have won that Chiantet match the other year the French Open and then she's backed it up and she's still in the tournament.

31:52David Law: She's won two more matches. I mean, the one she's just won against Anastasia Sevastova. I don't think you can read too much into that. I did watch it. Sevastova, you know, she's newly back on the tour and looks as though she'd hit the wall. But still, it doesn't matter, does it? Osaka just got the job done. Now very interested to see if she can take it further. And I just hope she's feeling the confidence from these wins because when she does get confident, you still see these angles of shots with power that nobody else really has, just different trajectories of shot. And I hope this is it for her, I really do.

32:31Catherine Whitaker: Fun to hear you talk about the potential sliding doors with that Svantec match because I often think about that match as well. And what was interesting here is that obviously Wick Karosky was in Svantec's coaching corner that day. That was the last match of Osaka's that he would have been kind of present for on court, I should think. And then he comes back and the first match where he's coaching Osaka is this kind of sliding doors match again, where finally she comes out on the right side of one of those close ones. And it seems to have slightly unlocked her game in the next two matches. and what I found interesting about the Samsonova match was that so often you think of Osaka as being able to dominate and being the one to just hit the winners.

33:20Catherine Whitaker: Well, it's tough to do that against Samsonova because she's so aggressive. She's going after every ball and Osaka said afterwards that she just kind of realised I don't necessarily need to be the one hitting the winners here. I've got to keep the ball in the court and a lot of the key moments in that second set and actually at the end as she won at Osaka were defined by Osaka's defence. She was lunging and running in the corners and defending well and then being able to inject and hit the winner but she was soaking up the sense of her power pretty well and that seemed like a slight shift in mindset and approach that I think was a great one.

34:00Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, of all the dormant volcanoes, Osaka is... she's the most dormant and the most volcano yes exactly because the eruption is the biggest like if it if it comes off we've seen it we've seen her win four majors and i just i won't give up believing that it might still be possible it might be deluded but every time i watch her i have that feeling of god what if this all comes together and it's just it's just happened a little bit this week and as David said like a long way to go we can't read too much into the Sevastova match and I actually didn't see much of the Ostopenko match but she's had a good record against Ostopenko she's beaten her in that way before and it not necessarily led to anything else but just with the coaching change with winning the tight match I'm just starting to to believe again I'm ready to be hurt again Catherine yeah oh me too I'm so ready the the

35:02Matt Roberts: The defence really struck me as well, both as a sort of as a weapon and as a tool in her arsenal, but also as a as a signifier of her hunger. You know, she's prepared to chase down every ball and just put herself on the line just for an outside chance of scrapping her way to an extra point. I felt like that was, you know, again, this might be me saying what I want to see, but but I felt like that was symbolic in a way. And the primary reaction I had when I heard that she was working with Thomas Wachorowski was relief. I, too, was very pleased to see that she had split from Patrick Morotoglu. I think it was pretty clear that that dynamic was toxic from the way that both of them were talking.

35:54Matt Roberts: And the results weren't resulting either. But I did worry that after that split, she might just not employ a new coach or do a bit of a, do you remember when Dominic Thiem split with Nicholas Massou for the second time and it felt like the beginning of a winding down process. and I did just worry that there was a risk of that with Naomi Osaka and I saw this news that she was teaming up with Thomas Witkorowski who is a no-nonsense guy. He's not signing up to any gig, I don't think, without assurances that she's in this. You know, she's totally committed to make the best of what she still has to give, whatever that might be.

36:44Matt Roberts: And I'm with you, Matt. I think there is a volcano there ready to erupt if it can just be, if the magma can just be unlocked somehow. So yeah, I was so heartened by that news. And I generally think he's a really good match for her because he just strikes me as so professional and it just all seems, you know, I don't, he doesn't strike me as a laugh necessarily like not not jumping to go to the pub with Thomas Wicorowski although he you know that there might be layers to him that I haven't seen but in terms of his you know professional persona I don't think he's a laugh I do think it's all business um but I think that's a great statement of intent from Naomi Osaka and I'm with you Matt I am so ready to be hurt again.

37:42Matt Roberts: A few other results to touch upon from Montreal before we move on to Toronto. So we've got Keyes Towson, Svitolina Osaka, Mboko Boutas-Monero. That is the quarterfinal rather at the top of the draw. The winner of that will face the winner of Marta Kostiuk and Elena Rabatkinner. Rebecca is such a weird player at the moment, David, isn't she? Like, I find her so unconvincing and I'm waiting for her to crumble. But she's also just so damn good. So damn good.

38:20David Law: Yeah, that's what we're seeing, I think. One of the things that I do remember talking to Goran Ivanovic about is him saying she's so good that it doesn't really matter who her coach is to a certain degree. She can get results. She will be a top 10 player because she's just that good. It's about how high within that top 10 you can get. Is she going to maximize her potential from here to the end of her career under her current setup? I'd be surprised. Now that may change. But you watch her go toe-to-toe. I watched the latter stages of the Jastrzemska match that she's just won. who was playing pretty lights out tennis herself.

39:05David Law: And there were a lot of matches going like that at the time. They were right down to the wire, both players teeing off. And this was one of those and sort of real chances on both sides. And yet the sort of fluid natural ball strike of Rabakina, she's like the big punching boxer who never loses their punch. And it's always going to be there, that ball strike. um and like i say i i don't i used to i was thinking of her as part of a big three or four you know not that long ago and i don't now but maybe she will get back to that it just it's it still feels like she's living off her skill really at the moment yeah yeah no i i feel

39:54Matt Roberts: exactly the same and i have so many feelings watching a Rebecca you know a lot of them uncomfortable because I just love her game. I love her ball strike so much, but they're just, well, before the Ustremska match, which, you know, she fought through in pretty tough fashion, actually, 7-5 in the third. I just, it just looked to me like all the resilience had gone and that's a tough sight to see. But she's through to the quarterfinals where she will face Marta Kostyuk, who is Kostyuk-ing, winning all her matches from a set down against Vondroshova, Kazakina and McCartney-Kessler. It's just, it's been great tennis actually in Montreal this week, hasn't it?

40:40Matt Roberts: Like these women have brought the drama.

40:44Catherine Whitaker: Massively. I was, you know, more hyped about Montreal than I was Toronto and that has played out, but actually it's been better than I thought it would be. there have been so many good matches. I think it's been the tournament of the year with the most comebacks from a set down, like already on the WTA Tour. We've had so many. And as you said, Kostiuk has provided a hefty percentage of them. And like when we were doing the live show on Thursday night, the chat was very, very distracted by the closing stages of Kostiuk-Kasikina. I subsequently went back to watch those closing stages. and I understood why they were distracted.

41:26Catherine Whitaker: Kostiuk was winning points on the floor at one point. And she needed, you know, talk about players needing a week like this. You know, Rabatkin, as you said, she'd lost her last eight from a set down. She hadn't won from a set down since February, which speaks to that, as you said, that lack of resilience in these matches. But she had it against Jastremska. And Kostiuk had lost six matches in a row since Rome. She hadn't won a match since Rome. She'd been on a really tough run of form. But yeah, that tenacity has been back this week, even though she'd looked down and out in the first match against Vondrosheva.

42:05Catherine Whitaker: She's come through the match against Kessler. I watched quite a lot of that. Very, very windy conditions, a little double faults between them. But again, she found a way through. And, you know, you feel like Rebecca has got a big power advantage against Kostiuk in that match. But the way Kostiuk is competing right now, you wouldn't put anything past her. So it's been it's been a really, really fun week in Montreal, as you say, and Kostiuk kind of right at the top of that. Epitomises that.

42:33Matt Roberts: Yeah, absolutely. Just before we move on, I would like to give a quick shout out to Aoi Ito. I'm not sure. I'm not sure if you both watched her match against Jasmine Paolini. I know she went on to lose and this story is sort of long forgotten and didn't turn out to be that significant in how the tournament has played out. But Aoi Ito might be my story still of the tournament from Montreal. She's Laura Siegmund without the faff, guys. I love her. She's so great.

43:11Catherine Whitaker: oh yeah she's i mean she's quite a lot like sue wei she in terms of her unorthodox style i mean she she basically only hit slice forehands she she actually hit over a few more as the match went on again against paolini but honestly probably the most original game the most unorthodox game on on on the tour right now she like doesn't look like an athlete at all like

43:39Matt Roberts: Her serve is Whittaker-esque.

43:42Catherine Whitaker: The technique on the serve is crazy. She doesn't bend her knees. She often just sort of stands still in the middle of points. She's got this kind of goofy game, this sliced forehand. And yet to make that work, as she has been doing more and more, she's got a lot of wins at like lower levels. She started to have wins on the WTA Tour as well this year. She's only 21. Right, she's young and she's...

44:08Matt Roberts: She's coming, guys. She's smart.

44:10Catherine Whitaker: She's tactically smart. She puts these players in positions they don't want to be. On match point, she sort of semi-sabred the Paolini serve. I think Tim Hedman would call it a crush and rush on the backhand and then knocked off a drop volley. There's going to be matches where she's going to get absolutely thrashed. like she's barely going to win games against a lot of players but there's going to be matches like the paolini one where she's just emanating joy for the spectators and causing her opponents to just go mad because they can't they can't beat this game that's in front of them which is so unorthodox yeah if if you get a chance watch ito because yeah you won't you won't regret it there'll be there'll be something you take away from that match like wow i've not seen that before

45:01Matt Roberts: yeah really fun absolutely um and just a final footnote from montreal the retirement of jeannie bouchard probably something david we wouldn't mention unless there had been a unless she'd been given this wild card and there had been the ceremony obviously she she ended up winning a match and providing some really great drama and i i'm i'm sure canada feel really good about the wild they gave her but I do feel like this giving this trend of giving out retiring retirement wild cards is proliferating and different people have different feelings I'm not a fan um but yeah she Jeannie Bouchard has retired we were asked one of our questions in our friends Q &A show last week was to describe Jeannie Bouchard's career in five words or fewer and um i struggled to even find five words to be honest like i stopped at weird what a weird career

46:04David Law: yeah yeah i i do feel like her her breakout wins i mean in the space of a year she reached a couple of grand slam semis and wimbledon final um in was it 2013 and and that was more than i was expecting really from her at the time and and yet because she'd done that that was exciting and then look she had her concussion at the US Open and I do think that that really put her back and other players I think did find her out I think she was a pretty one dimensional player really but I didn't like the way her career ended up just kind of disintegrating and it ended up as a pickleball career but I mean I know I don't like that I don't like that sport particularly and I didn't really like the way she sort of just didn't retire from tennis and then started that up.

47:02David Law: So at least there's a full stop to it now and look, she meant stuff particularly to Canadian tennis. That was a big year. It's 12 years ago now. But yeah, I do think we're going to see more of this for sure. One tournament does it, another tournament sees it and another player sees it and they think, oh, that would be a nice way to go out. So I suspect you're going to have to just get used to it.

47:30Matt Roberts: But taking a wild card just to say goodbye in a competitive event. Yeah.

47:38David Law: I mean, I get why you don't like it. I understand why not.

47:43Matt Roberts: Play an exhibition match. Put on a special exhibition and then have a ceremony after it. By all means, if you need the ceremony of a goodbye and you want it to involve forehands and backhands so it's reflective of the career that went before.

48:00David Law: That's harder to do. It's harder to put on an exhibition and get everybody to come. If you're her, you can just say, oh, well, they've already got an infrastructure and a massive crowd. I could just get a wild card from them and then I don't have to do anything.

48:13Matt Roberts: Sure, I don't blame her for accepting it. Well, I do a little bit blame her for accepting it because you are taking an opportunity away from somebody else. But, I mean, it's up to the... The tournaments are offering these wild cards.

48:26David Law: And a lot of it, I dare say a lot of them, particularly in Montreal, they're probably thinking, well, you know, Irina Sabalenka's pulled out. And on the men's side, you know, there's a lot of star quality missing because of the way these things have gone.

48:41Matt Roberts: Yeah.

48:42David Law: She's a star. She's going to pack the place out.

48:45Matt Roberts: Yeah, I agree. and I guess fundamentally that brings me to the conclusion that I don't believe in wild cards and I think this trend is just exposing that because they're anti-competitive. If you want to control who's in your draw, stage an exhibition.

49:07David Law: I understand. But happy retirement, Eugenie.

49:12Matt Roberts: And Vasek. We'll move on to Toronto in just a moment. Before we do, a bit of a PSA, because the Tennis History Conference that you might have heard us talk about before is being held at Wimbledon this year on Tuesday, the 9th of December. The topic, the sort of umbrella theme for this year's event is Trailblazers in Tennis, 50 years on from Arthur Ashe and Billie Jean King winning Wimbledon singles in 1975. we're going to be there and we're going to be giving a presentation at the start of the day Alfie Hewitt and Gordon Reid will also be there and Hannah Wilkes is going to be there she's going to be giving a presentation as well as a couple of other Friends of the Tennis Podcast which is really really lovely we are thrilled that Hannah's proposal got accepted for one of the presentations.

50:09Matt Roberts: I mean, of course it did. Of course it did. I'm sure it's absolutely brilliant. Tickets are on sale now. We will put the link to those tickets in our show notes and it'll be in the newsletter later this week and I'll pop it on Instagram as well at the Tennis Podcast on Instagram. And yeah, if you want to subscribe to the newsletter, we'll put that link in our show notes and I'll pop that on Instagram as well. Between vacations, sports, activities, busy days and endless tennis to watch, let's face it, healthy eating can slip. I'm also personally not organised enough to be a meal prep person, but if that's you too, don't worry.

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51:34Matt Roberts: homechef.com slash tennispod. You must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert.

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54:24David Law: some reminding um what's interesting about it is I I initially see all these withdrawals and I think why am I going to care about this tournament? You know, there's none of it. So many of the top players are not there. And then I get to the tournament and then these other players start becoming more relevant because, well, the other guys aren't there. The Sinner and Alkraz and Draper, et cetera, and Djokovic. And I end up thinking, oh, yeah, I'm actually quite enjoying these storylines now and the chance for them to get a bit of oxygen and them to be the headline makers. And actually, I'm quite into the fact that Popperin has managed to keep in the tournament.

55:05David Law: I think it's quite impressive that he's still there. And I think he's had one or two battles along the way. But it's just, it's quite difficult to back these things up. And he's not had a great year. So yes, I did have to kind of remind myself, but it was a hell of a run last year. And then of course, he did the same last year. He backed it up and went and beat Novak Djokovic of the US Open. So that was pretty cool. But yeah, I have to kind of separate my, well, does this mean anything kind of thoughts and actually just enjoy them in isolation and see these players kind of making names for themselves because the big names aren't there.

55:49Matt Roberts: It's tough though, isn't it? Because it should automatically mean something because it's a 1000. So you're kind of having to treat it as not a 1000 and find meaning and fun elsewhere, which, good on you. But if I was that event, I would be... Well, I would have issues with, I'd be speaking to the ATP.

56:14David Law: Yeah, well you said, is it sustainable is what you guys were saying last week. Yeah, I don't think it is. I don't see how it can be because this isn't what they signed up for. You know, the reason they are a 1 ,000 and there's nine of them is you're supposed to get commitments from the top players. And there they are. I mean, it was just inevitable it felt like. I mean, like I said, my biggest surprise of the whole stretch is that Igor Fiontek ended up playing. But look, the Grand Slams and the women's side are best of three sets. That helps on that score. But it was no surprise at all that Alkraza and Sinner pulled out.

56:53David Law: And you don't want to be feeling like that if you're a 1 ,000. When are you next going to see the Wimbledon finalists in your tournament? I'm not sure you ever will.

57:04Matt Roberts: and okay yeah i'm sure i'm sure they would say well we're getting the extra revenue of the extra few days but that that's a very short-termist view of it and will you continue to get cute extra revenue if if sponsors start to pay less because it's less of an attractive event and the crowds show up less because they know they're not going to be seeing carlos alcaraz or or Yannick Sinner. Alexey Popperin mounting this title defence that he is is a cool story and we're tennis podcasters, we're here to talk about it. If you'd offered Toronto that story or an Alcaraz-Sinner final or even one of Alcaraz-Sinner or Djokovic or even Draper rocking up and playing, they'd be taking the not Alexey Popperin option, I'm afraid.

57:57Matt Roberts: Like this is damaging to that event for sure. And I do wonder what conversations might be taking place behind the scenes. But having said that, David is absolutely right, Matt, isn't he? That, well, we've probably been underestimating Alexey Poporin and his prospects of mounting this title defence. I think in particular in Canada, because it's not even the same place, is it? It's sort of the same tournament by name only. Like it's not one of those things where you've walked back through the doors of the stadium onto the centre court and it's all come flooding back to you. It's like it's literally a completely different city, thousands of miles away.

58:37Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, when you hear players talk about, you know, their favourite tournament, they'll often cite things like, oh, I go to the same restaurant all the time or I sort of build up these habits that I do. But, you know, as you said, he's in a different city. He can't do those things. He's going to have different feelings. And yet he's kept it going. He's actually never lost in Canada. Last year was his first time playing the event and he won it. He's won three matches here. He's 9-0 at the Canadian Open. And it's been impressive. He is just perplexing, Alexey Popper. And he does seem to be a completely different player against top players in Masters 1000 events.

59:24Catherine Whitaker: He's won nine of his last 11 against the top 20 at this level.

59:30Matt Roberts: It's quite a niche career, isn't it?

59:31Catherine Whitaker: Very niche. Like only Carlos Alcaraz can match that in terms of like wins against fellow top 20 players from their last 11 matches. It's kind of crazy. And yet I kind of look at the two big headline wins that he's had. And, you know, like, I just think Zverev in the next round is going to be a much, much different test because Medvedev, I mean, literally left the court, didn't he, without his stuff, Medvedev. I don't know what headspace he was in. He just, he lost.

1:00:03Matt Roberts: Apparently he went straight out to the car.

1:00:05Catherine Whitaker: Just walked off, left all his stuff on the court. Like, that was, that was not a guy who is locked in at the moment. And then Holger Runa, you know, can kind of lose to anyone. and I did quite enjoy Runa's tweet about the match afterwards. He said, good things and bad things tonight. I need to step up. And I thought, okay, that's his assessment of the match. He said, go out and defend that title, Alexi. And look, winning two matches like that from losing positions when you're the defending champion, it's been an impressive run from Popper in and found that he's kept it going. But at this stage, I would still be quite surprised if he does go on to actually defend the title.

1:00:55Matt Roberts: Just on Medvedev, I know that this isn't new. This is the continuation of a trend which has been running all year. In fact, prior to this year, the decline of Daniel Medvedev has been a theme of the tennis podcast. Matt, you called it very, very early. but this does I mean like how are we worried about how low he might potentially go here like I think we all called this decline is sort of him slipping out of the top 10 and and failing to be ceasing to be a staple at the the year-end finals but I'm now starting to worry that about where the bottom of the barrel might be for Daniel Medvedev. What do you think, David?

1:01:43David Law: Well, you know, there was a press conference not that long ago where he was asked about how long he wanted to keep playing, you know, whether he thought about, I think probably because all this discussion about how players retire and that sort of stuff.

1:01:59Matt Roberts: I think it was Paris. Yeah. I think it was French Open.

1:02:02David Law: He looked very confused about why he was being asked this to me because, well, I suppose as an element of what else would I be doing you know I'm not old enough to be retiring yet I'm not that bad you know but he's nowhere near what you would expect him to be what he used to be and he's he just seemed to be going from tournament to tournament looking a bit nowhere

1:02:31Matt Roberts: but he also did say David in response to that question yes that was sort of part one to he was like oh it's you know it's not that bad like I'm not thinking about retirement but then he said oh but if you know if I dropped out of the top 50 then it would maybe be a different discussion well like that doesn't feel beyond the realms of possibility like what what level of 10 what level of tennis by ranking is he playing right now probably outside the world's top 50

1:03:04Catherine Whitaker: and I think what I've been struck by is obviously like last year like the game just didn't look good you know the serve was a problem it wasn't impacting matches and obviously that's carried on but I think what what's also come in this year is a what what feels like a certain level of delusion in his press conferences I remember the one in in Paris where he kept talking about like he felt like he was playing really good tennis on on the clay and like it would it would maybe help him on the grass and and the other surfaces and i you know if he's genuinely feeling that who am i to to say that he's wrong it just didn't feel like that was necessarily what the reality was and then do you remember that press conference at wimbledon where he kept going on about how everything was fine because he played well in halla and yet halla was the exception and i always felt like Medvedev knew who he was as a player and knew what he had to offer on the court and he was a real maximizer you know I never would have thought Medvedev would have won a slam and got to world number one he's done those things in my mind he has kind of overachieved but equally I didn't see the decline coming like this and I think a lot I think a lot of it has been physical he's talked about that shoulder being a real issue and causing a lot of pain and he wasn't always able to practice and I think that was a big reason for his serve.

1:04:25Catherine Whitaker: But yeah, he's just in a really tricky place right now. And yeah, I would say he's still playing top 50 tennis, but he's a long way from playing top five tennis, which he was for several years. And he's much more vulnerable now to kind of lose to anyone. Like I always have Medvedev on upset alert and it's kind of becoming, is it even an upset anymore? And yeah, I think it's more likely that he continues this decline than it is he gets back to where he was. I really do think the peak Medvedev years have gone. Like I'd like to think that he can hopefully get back, you know, be better than he's doing now.

1:05:17Catherine Whitaker: but it feels a long way back to where he was especially with new players coming through compared to when he was at the top.

1:05:29Matt Roberts: Quarter-finals-wise in Toronto we have Alexander Zverev, the top seed against Alexey Poporin and Alex Mickelson against Karen Hashanov those are today's two quarter-finals and then tomorrow's two are Alex Domenor against Ben Shelton and Andrei Rublev against Taylor Fritz. David, same question to you that I asked about Montreal, your story of the week from Toronto, other than unexpected Alexey Popperin reaching the quarterfinals.

1:06:01David Law: Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, I think probably it's the way the Americans just squeaked through these third set tie breaks last night. Fritz and Shelton and our sort of players that I'm expecting to... Because they're the next group in line, particularly Fritz, of course. I'm always very interested who ends up winning these tournaments when Sinner and Al Kras are not there. I mean, proper and good luck to him. You know, he came out and he played big tennis and he won the thing last year. This should be Taylor Fritz or Alexander Zverev, shouldn't it? One of these guys should be winning this tournament.

1:06:41David Law: There should be no question about it. they should be in the final that should be it and yeah I don't necessarily think that that is the case I think sometimes a little bit like how Popperin plays his best stuff against the other top or against the top players in the world I sometimes feel as though say Fritz plays his best tennis when he's fourth seed you know and Sinner and our crowds are still there and he can just do it under the radar a little bit then you now you're putting expectation on him he's supposed to go do this and I'm interested to see what he does I mean that was a really close match he had against Jurid Hedgir last night he he does he he's made a thing the last couple of years of winning those sort of matches um and then he had Shelton who had this this absolute knockdown drag out affair with Flavio Caballi where Caballi's five three up in the deciding set I mean you know that he should have won that match and then they've had some aggro at the end as well and he's made some sort of gesture that he says I think is towards his team that Shelton thought initially was towards him and they had some words at the net and so 5-3 has ended up being Shelton winning it on a tie break and I just find I don't have a single player that I look at and think there's the story of the week I just find the whole mix of these guys who ends up coming out on top is the story of the week for me.

1:08:04David Law: I want to know who's going to end up making hay in the absence of Alcaraz and Sina and Djokovic. And I'm not absolutely convinced it's going to be the ones who should do it.

1:08:20Matt Roberts: Great answer, David. But I cannot believe you didn't say Dan Evans against Alejandro Davidovich Vakina.

1:08:29David Law: Why should I have said that?

1:08:31Matt Roberts: Oh, because it's right in the aggro sweet spot, isn't it? It's petty. It's silly. Someone does have a point. Davidovich Vakina ended up winning at 11am, which was a great final act to the aggro episode. Matt, do you want to fill people in in case they're not across this?

1:08:53Catherine Whitaker: I really like Hanver Davidovich Fikina. I thought this was a crazy thing to be complaining about. And he didn't just put out a little tweet about it or an Instagram post. It was such a po-faced sort of essay. It was in English and in Spanish. He wanted everyone to know his point. And his point was that he was the only match scheduled at 11am. that day and he was staying an hour away from site so to start 11 a.m he was gonna have to get up really early and i just kind of looked at that and i did think that strikes me as really unremarkable playing at 11 a.m like people do that all the time someone else had played in that slot the day before it wasn't like a one-off total one-off only him um and then dan evans pops up on Instagram a few hours later.

1:09:54Matt Roberts: I didn't even realise Dan Evans was on Instagram. I thought that Dan Evo official account, it just smacked of not official.

1:10:06David Law: That's a management account, mainly, I think, designed to put the occasional thing up about his results and his sponsors to keep them happy. I think he must have nicked the login because he got annoyed about somebody complaining about working for a living which always winds him up

1:10:28Catherine Whitaker: Right, and I can't remember his exact words but it was basically, wake up and play like, people are going to work at 8 o 'clock in the morning 9 o 'clock in the morning It was get a grip, wasn't it? They've got longer commutes than you and they're earlier like, what are you complaining about? And I have to say, as I said, I really like Alain O'Davidovich-Vikina, but I was totally with Evans here. I thought he lost his mind a little bit there, Davidovich-Vikina. That was...

1:10:56David Law: It does happen.

1:10:57Catherine Whitaker: I think the players have a lot of points when they complain about scheduling and all of that. And we're so often in agreement with what they're saying. But here, I was a bit like, get a grip. Come on.

1:11:13Matt Roberts: Yeah, well, he ended up winning that match. But lost, well, no, weird retirement yesterday, I think, are just sort of hitting the wall. It seems like it. Like sort of unspecified, nothing left to give reason for retirement against Andrej Ryblev. The internet seems confused about reasons for retirement as well. Matt, other than Evans against Davidovich Vakina, your story of the week from Toronto. and the quarterfinal that you're most looking forward to?

1:11:48Catherine Whitaker: I think, well, definitely the match I'm most looking forward to is Shelton de Manor. That's the one that's popping off the screen for me. I mean, I was kind of expecting that to be the Washington final, actually, but then Alejandro Daviduic-Vikina played so well to be a kind of flat Ben Shelton that night, a very error-strewn performance from Shelton. and like David said Shelton has been amazing like in the latter stages of matches this week he's won a couple of deciding set tie breaks continued his head to head dominance over Brandon Nakashima but I'm not sure he's playing necessarily his best stuff, he's sort of bringing it at the end but he's been a bit vulnerable and Dimonor's just had an odd week because he came he had to rush over from Washington and play a match, you know, reasonably early.

1:12:40Catherine Whitaker: And then the sensation Christopher O 'Connell withdrew. And in a week like this, where you get days off anyway, that meant that he ended up with three days off in the middle of the tournament. And he said after his win over Tiafoe, he really did find it hard. He kind of switched off. Like, it's just not normal to have that amount of time off in the middle of a tournament like this. But I thought he really outplayed Tiafoe yesterday for two sets and yet found himself in a third set. so he had to battle through that one and yeah it's just I'm excited about the potential for the rallies in that match they're both such good athletes in kind of different ways as well Shelton's obviously got that huge serve and he can kind of athletically win points whereas Dimonor he is just I know it's not new but he is so fast there was a couple of points right at the end against Tiafoe where he's just no one else I don't think is getting those balls back.

1:13:37Catherine Whitaker: Maybe Alcaraz, maybe like peak Monfils, but he's in a group kind of on his own or maybe with one or two others, De Menor, the way he uses his speed. And I think that could be a great kind of electric match shown against De Menor. So that's the one that is jumping out for me for sure.

1:13:57Matt Roberts: Yeah, same. I'm looking forward to that. Karen Hashanov, of course, is popping up because, well, just because. reminding us that he exists. Alex Mickelson is popping up and bringing me some sweet, sweet points. I'm glad I weathered the natural surfaces rough patch with my man Alex because grass and clay were not good to us, but he's coming good again.

1:14:22Catherine Whitaker: He was puking against Lorenzo Mazzetti. I don't know how... Post-puke Mickelson on my fantasy team. Mazzetti really should have won that match,

1:14:34Matt Roberts: but Mickelson did

1:14:36Catherine Whitaker: and then he backed it up by beating Lerner Tien and they're good friends aren't they Tien and Mickelson we learned that earlier in the year and yeah it's very open that match Mickelson-Hashinov I could make a case for either of them really Yeah

1:14:50Matt Roberts: so the winner is Verov and Poparin to face the winner of Mickelson-Hashinov and the winner is Shelton-Dominor to face the winner of Fritz and Rublev as I said the finals of both these events are Thursday and we will be back with our Canada rap show on Friday. And that show, if you fancy joining us live, will be live on YouTube at 8pm UK time. That's it for part two. Join us in part three, where I will be poking the David bear about the US Open mixed doubles. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the 14500 use the ServiceNow AI platform.

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1:16:24Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part three of the Tennis Podcast, where there is just a spot of US Open news. We have the 14 of the 16 mixed doubles teams announced for the US Open, David. Again, announced via an Instagram post, which stated at the top of it, an official Grand Slam tournament, which is making me laugh every single time. The eight doubles teams that are getting direct entry via their combined singles rankings are Emi Navarro and Yannick Sinner, Paola Bedossa and Jack Draper, Iga Shontek and Kasper Rood, Elena Rabakno and Taylor Fritz, Amanda Anisimova and Holger Runa, Belinda Bencic and Alexander Zverev, Jessica Pegula and Tommy Paul, and Mira Andreva and Daniel Medvedev.

1:17:15Matt Roberts: We understand the combined ranking cutoff was something like 19 to get direct entry. Alex de Minhoor is campaigning on behalf of himself and Katie Bolter because they are not currently on the list because the teams receiving wild cards currently are Emera Adekanu and Carlos Alcaraz, Madison Keyes and Francis Tiafoe, Olga Danilovic and Novak Djokovic, Taylor Townsend and Ben Shelton, Venus Williams and Riley Apulka and Sara Arani and Andrea Vavasori. Now there are two more wildcards still to be awarded and of course there are going to be withdrawals because this event starts the day after Cincinnati finishes because tennis.

1:18:00Matt Roberts: But as it stands at the moment, David, as you predicted, they have thrown a bone to the defending champions Arani and Vavasori but that is it in terms of doubles players at this doubles tournament. It's a no to Katarina Siniarkova and Marcelo Aravalo, who pulled a real rock star move by entering as the two number ones. How do you feel about this, David?

1:18:29David Law: The thing is, I'm simultaneously excited about seeing what it's like and seeing all these stars together playing mixed doubles, but also just really miffed that it could have been so much better and so much more interesting if they'd have been up against some of the best doubles players in the world. I'd love to have seen that. I'd love to have seen Aravalo and Siniakova. They should be on that list. The world, you know, they should be there. And I mean, look, there might still be. There are still two wild cards still to come. Yet I think that there's probably a better chance of it being Serena Williams and somebody than it is to be them.

1:19:12David Law: I mean, I have no idea if Serena Williams actually wants to play in this tournament. But if she did, she'd be getting a wild card, 100%. And I mean, look, I'd want to see it. Of course I would. But I still feel no matter who they have the opportunity to give one of these things to, the very best doubles players in the world should be there. I think it is pretty disrespectful that those two are not being given a wild card when all these others are. And I understand reimagined. I understand the point. And look, it will sell out. And it will be amazing TV. And people will love it. And people will rightfully point the finger at me and say, well, were you interested in the mixed doubles before?

1:19:58David Law: No, I wasn't, really. but there's also no there's no need to go to those extremes you don't need to just prove your point to me on people and the doubles players by you can have somewhere in between it's fine and that's what they should have and I think it's a real shame that they don't both in terms of the format of scoring and in terms of the field Matt

1:20:23Matt Roberts: anything to add?

1:20:25Catherine Whitaker: I just can't stop thinking about Belinda Bencic taking a protected ranking to to get into this event.

1:20:32Matt Roberts: To play fast four with Alexander Zverev.

1:20:34Catherine Whitaker: I think that's crazy. She's almost lost her place on the backhand list for that. Like, what are you doing?

1:20:42Matt Roberts: Yeah, Victoria Mboko is not doing that, is she?

1:20:47Matt Roberts: You mentioned Serena there, David. I know this is pointless speculation, but she has been posting training videos on her socials. It wouldn't surprise me at all. It's suddenly not totally ludicrous to imagine that one of those wild cards is being held back for her, right?

1:21:09David Law: To play fast four over two days. She could win it. It's not ludicrous at all.

1:21:16Matt Roberts: Absolutely. What's in it for her?

1:21:20David Law: I mean, I don't know how much fun life is after tennis when you've been a superstar and everybody's been cheering your name for 20 years. I mean, if you get a chance to do a couple of days of Arthur Ashe Stadium and just be the centre of attention and just be able to compete and be up against players that you probably think, actually, I could still beat this lot. I think there's plenty in it for her if she actually feels like she could do herself justice. I don't think for a second she'd want to play if she didn't think she'd be good.

1:21:54Matt Roberts: Well, she's just watched her older sister win a singles match. Exactly.

1:22:00Catherine Whitaker: And Venus was asked about Serena making a comeback from those Instagram training videos in one of her press conferences in Washington. And like she kind of says everything with a little glint in the eye, Venus. But she did say, I've got no news, but I'm sure if Serena's got news, she'll tell you. And I don't know. I did kind of think maybe, maybe. David, would you rather see Serena or Sini Arcova get the wild card?

1:22:28David Law: There's two wild cards.

1:22:30Catherine Whitaker: Oh, so you want them both to fill the slots? No, David.

1:22:34Matt Roberts: If it were just one.

1:22:36Catherine Whitaker: If it were one, who do you want?

1:22:39David Law: That's not fair. That's not fair. I've got another question. They had seven wild cards, didn't they? Eight.

1:22:48Matt Roberts: Yeah, but who are they going to turn down? Carlos Alcaraz and Emma Radicani?

1:22:53David Law: Well, there are others, aren't there? It wasn't just them. Go through the list.

1:23:00Matt Roberts: Venus Williams and Riley Opelka I mean

1:23:04David Law: I'm delighted to see Venus

1:23:06Matt Roberts: Taylor Townsend and Ben Shelton

1:23:08David Law: quite happy with that one

1:23:10Matt Roberts: Madison Keyes and Francis Tiafoe

1:23:13David Law: quite happy with that one

1:23:14Matt Roberts: Olga Danilovic and Novak Djokovic

1:23:18David Law: yeah I get your point

1:23:20Matt Roberts: Ansara Arani and Andrei Vavasori you're a campaign pretty hard for yeah

1:23:26David Law: yeah it's look it's difficult it's difficult i take your point okay who who will in this

1:23:33Matt Roberts: one of those imaginary scenario where she's playing one of those plus serena

1:23:38David Law: one of them have got to go to make room for cine archivist yeah who is it um i will get rid of

1:23:50David Law: who am I going to get rid of

1:23:53Matt Roberts: do you want to hear your options again

1:23:55David Law: yes please

1:23:56Matt Roberts: this is like that scene from The Office isn't it always the same

1:24:03Matt Roberts: Madison Keyes and Francis Tiafoe Olga Danilovic and 24 time Grand Slam champion Novak Djokovic Emma Raducanu and Carlos Alcaraz Taylor Townsend and Ben Shelton Venus Williams and Riley Apelka Sara Arani and Andrea Vavasori. And you have to get rid of both players in the partnership, David.

1:24:20David Law: Right.

1:24:20Matt Roberts: You can't just get rid of Riley Opelka.

1:24:24David Law: I'll drop Djokovic and Danilevic. I don't think Djokovic is that into this. He's not. He's not bothered.

1:24:33Matt Roberts: Hang on, if we're dropping people based on how bothered they are about it, I think that's a completely different thought experiment. Okay, final question. in this highly speculative section of the pod that I am loving, who will her partner be?

1:24:47David Law: Oh, a Brian. No, that's lame.

1:24:51Matt Roberts: That's lame. What? What's lame about it?

1:24:55David Law: Wouldn't you choose a Brian? I would.

1:24:58Matt Roberts: No, but the US Open wouldn't choose a Brian for her.

1:25:01David Law: I think she could play with anybody. She could play with Matt Roberts.

1:25:06Matt Roberts: Why would they choose a doubles player? They don't want doubles players.

1:25:10David Law: Yeah, but the Bryans aren't just any doubles players. They're American legends. The US Open loved the Bryans.

1:25:18Matt Roberts: Who would you choose for, Matt? I think if you're convincing Serena to play,

1:25:28Catherine Whitaker: you try and convince Federer to play.

1:25:34Matt Roberts: Would he do it, David? Is his post-retirement career sad enough that he might want a bit of this?

1:25:44David Law: Like I say, if he actually thinks he can not embarrass himself, I think he'd absolutely do a two-day thing playing fast four. Why not?

1:25:56Catherine Whitaker: One of the quite funny things about this is that they're missing the biggest star of all. Coco Goff's not playing. Tokyo Golf. And she's been consistent about that all year. She said at the start, I'm not going to play that because it's going to affect my preparation going into the actual US Open. I do wonder whether, you know, if she... Well, two questions, actually. If she goes out early in Cincinnati, might she reconsider? You know, she'll have a lot more time. are they allowed to pick a wild card from a bunch of people who haven't entered? I don't actually know how that works.

1:26:40Matt Roberts: The thing is...

1:26:41Catherine Whitaker: You can do what you like if you...

1:26:43Matt Roberts: I think they can, but they have picked people who've entered. Because of the schedule, there's going to be partner swapping, isn't there? Because let's say Emi Navarro reaches the final in Cincinnati and Yannick Sinner loses earlier in Cincinnati. they are not going to let a willing Yannick Sinner not be able to play just because Emma Navarro is unavailable. They're going to find someone for Yannick Sinner to go to the dance with. So there is going to be partner swapping here. So I think kind of, I think you're right, David, I think all bets are off and they'll find a way to make it all work. I mean, what if, David, we ditched Olga Danilovic and we got Serena in with Djokovic?

1:27:32Sure.

1:27:35Matt Roberts: That could happen, couldn't it?

1:27:37David Law: I mean, no offence, Olga. I mean, some offence, but yeah.

1:27:43Matt Roberts: Okay, last bit of very important US Open news, which I simply have to put to David. Have you seen Game Set Matchmaker, David?

1:27:51David Law: You know, I did see something about it And then I just instantly thought, this is not for me. I don't want to do that.

1:28:00Matt Roberts: It's definitely not for you. Is it for anybody? Who is it for? I think is the real question. Would you like to hear? I'm going to read out details whether you'd like to hear them or not. Introducing Game Set Matchmaker, a bold new US Open YouTube series that follows one tennis savvy bachelorette, the champion on her quest to find love one match at a time over the course of eight episodes filmed during US Open fan week will any of her seven matches be destined for a real life doubles partner the series will air during the tournament and the first reply I've got the first comment I've got showing up on my Instagram feed is Donna Vekic saying wait what crying laughing emoji It's just about sums things up.

1:28:51I mean, who is this for? I'm partial to a naff, you know, turn your mind to mush dating show.

1:29:03Matt Roberts: And I'm also partial to tennis. And this is not for me. This makes me recoil in horror.

1:29:11David Law: I've seen what happened when you went to one point slam and the turn around.

1:29:15Matt Roberts: I shouldn't rule out.

1:29:18David Law: Can you tell me, Matt, that you would be that surprised if Catherine turned this on just out of a bit of professional curiosity and was into it within about four minutes?

1:29:29Catherine Whitaker: Not even very professional curiosity. Just curiosity. Yeah, you're right. It's true, isn't it? No one has gone from zero to 100 harder than Catherine at the one-point slam, so anything is possible.

1:29:44David Law: It's true. I wouldn't judge you. I just observe it. I would judge me.

1:29:49Matt Roberts: I think I would keep it to myself. If internally I was enjoying Game Set Matchmaker, I think I'd keep it to myself. It just feels like, first of all, it feels very like 10 years ago. Like that was the crest of the Love Island, Love is Blind, well, maybe five years ago. But it just feels a bit late to be doing this. And it also just feels like, I don't know, it feels to me like boomers thinking they've nailed what Gen Z want. You know what I mean? Like boomers sitting around a table going, what do Gen Z want, guys? What are they into?

1:30:29Catherine Whitaker: Can I tell you what I want? A proper US Open draw. I didn't ask for this mixed singles. I didn't ask for this, whatever it is, matchmaker. just stream the draw and do it properly that is how to improve the fan week of the US Open

1:30:55Matt Roberts: can't wait for the moment the PDF lands in your inbox Matt and we get this rant all over again who's pumped for the US Open I am this time in two weeks we'll be on a flight or on two separate flights cannot wait folks we have two Two mascots for this episode. I think these are returning mascots. I think I know these guys. We have Snicker and Doodle. Snicker and Doodle owned by Amy Tarr. And they are Maltese Shih Tzu crosses, which apparently is called a Shmaltese, which is a name I'm very much here for. They're both seven years old. They're brother and sister and they live in New York City. They say when And we're not inside watching tennis or sci-fi with our humans.

1:31:44Matt Roberts: We love to go for walks in Central Park as long as it's not raining. We love watching children go around the carousel or finding a sunny spot high up on the schist rocks to observe all the action in the park. Fellow dogs, squirrels, birds and pedestrians scurrying in all directions. Well, Amy, that's exactly what I hope to be doing in a couple of weeks time, watching the world go by in Central Park for an hour or so. So I very much hope I bump into Snicker and Doodle while I'm doing so because they are incredible. And I really love the name Schmaltese. Love that. So thank you, Snicker and Doodle.

1:32:23Matt Roberts: And thank you, Amy. You'll be going in our newsletter and on our Instagram. And if you're watching us on YouTube, you're probably looking at their lovely faces. They look like they're friends to me in a brother and sister kind of way. I'm sure they have their moments, but they look like they're friends to me. And of course, animals being friends is the best thing in the world. Hello to our mascots, of course. Hello, Phoebe. Hello, Maisie. And hello, Roger. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. Thank you to The Athletic. We are, of course, proudly part of The Athletic Podcast Network.

1:32:57Matt Roberts: And Matt, it is over to you for a very special shout out this week.

1:33:04Catherine Whitaker: Yes, that's right. um pam shriver got in touch with us uh to tell us about braun levy he was a loyola high school tennis and sports star all set to attend the university of virginia later this year um but in may of this year he was he was tragically killed by a drunk driver and it was just a a devastating loss for the southern california community tennis community and his family and his friends and pam described him to us as an outstanding young man and wrote in her tribute on twitter that he was a pillar and a gem the usta wrote that he was a passionate tennis player a devoted teammate and a loyal friend and born's lasting impact wasn't written only through wins or rankings it was written through the happiness he gave others he had a way of brightening every room he walked into his sportsmanship never wavered and his love for tennis for people and for life was always evident and um yeah since his since his passing a number of efforts have been made to honor his legacy and a scholarship fund has been set up in his name live like brawn to support a Loyola student each year and his family have created a foundation in his honour, the Live Like Braun Foundation.

1:34:36And the reason we wanted to pay tribute to Braun this week

1:34:40Catherine Whitaker: was because this Saturday, 9th of August, would have been his 19th birthday and a tournament is being held in his honour and will be held in his honour in future years in the Southern California area on and around his birthday. So, yeah, Braun sounds like a very special person and that event sounds like it's going to be very special this weekend. And, yeah, we just wanted to say that we're thinking of his family, Pam and all those who knew him.

1:35:16Matt Roberts: Absolutely. And best of luck to everybody involved in that tournament this Saturday. it's a desperately sad story to hear about but incredibly from Braun's family and community to create a legacy and honour him in that way so best of luck to everybody involved on Saturday best of luck to everybody involved on Saturday we will be back on Friday with our next show that show will be live at 8pm on YouTube look out for the link in our newsletter and across our socials it'll also be available as a podcast as usual as well enjoy the rest of the week of tennis in Canada we'll be doing just that thank you for listening and we'll speak to you on Friday

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