Cheap, flat and shallow. Did anyone really win the Battle of the Sexes?

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0:31Matt Roberts: AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the 14500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows, and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com. Hi, this is John from Cambridge, Massachusetts, and you're listening to The Tennis Podcast.

1:22Matt Roberts: Well, hello and welcome to the tennis podcast introduced beautifully, commandingly there by John in Cambridge, Massachusetts. You can get yourself an intro or a shout out on this show at any time of the year. The link to become a friend of the pod is in the show notes. Friends also get access to The Barge, our online community platform, Hannah's Column, our brilliant writer, our entire archive of Friends shows and at least 25 bonus episodes of the Tennis Podcast every year, including Tennis Relived, our history series, our Grand Slam review shows, Tennis Podcast Meets, our new edition for 2025, which will continue into 2026.

2:05Matt Roberts: will continue until we've met all the tennis players in the world. So I think we've got a good time to run on that. And of course, 12 live Q &A shows every year as well. Plus, we still have some pet mascot slots to fill, some guest editor slots and some Grand Slam prediction slots available for a couple more weeks as well. Our presenter mascot slots have been snapped up. More news on that in the coming days, folks. Watch this space. Matt Roberts is here. Hello, Matt. Happy holidays. How was your Christmas?

2:41Catherine Whitaker: Hello. It was very, very nice. Thank you. I am still at my parents heading back to London tomorrow, but it feels nice to be doing a podcast again. I feel like we did four in the week leading up to Christmas, and then to go a week without one is a bit sort of destabilising. But here we are. We're back, and it's good to see you, Catherine. were you Matt on Christmas Day doing like the Seb Co Steve Ovette thing of sort of practicing your podcasting knowing that none of your rivals would be just keeping that edge over everyone else I actually wasn't I can't speak for Catherine

3:24Matt Roberts: that folks oh you don't want to know what I was doing on Christmas Day folks that is the voice of Charlie Eccleshire from The Athletic Charlie hello welcome thanks for being here how has your holiday week been? Very nice thank you yeah but yeah I guess tennis came crashing back into our lives today with all that happened a few hours ago which we'll get on to Yes spoiler alert thank you for the segue Charlie today was the day Nick Kyrgios versus Irina Sabalenka in the self-titled Battle of the Sexes, an event staged by management company Evolve, who also represent both Sabalenka and Kyrgios, and which here in the UK was broadcast on BBC One.

4:13Matt Roberts: In the US, I think it was on Tennis Channel, I believe. it was won by Nick Kyrgios, the men's world number 671, 6-3, 6-3 over Sabalenka. The match played in front of a crowd of apparently about 6 ,000 inside the Coca-Cola arena in Dubai, an arena which incidentally has a capacity of around 17 ,000, but not the full 17 ,000 were put on sale. So they were pitching 6 ,000 as a sellout crowd. look we we here at the tennis podcast haven't made any secret of our feelings about this event ahead of time Matt how did our experience of watching the event today match up to all the expectations

5:04Catherine Whitaker: that we went into this with I think from a tennis perspective my kind of worst fears were realized i supposed in that you had a clearly unfit nick kyrgios giving what seemed like a pretty half-hearted effort at times beating the world number one women's player ina sabalenka despite court adjustments in her favor and and i kind of just come out of that thinking well sure like of course that was that was always the most likely outcome a great job lifting up women's tennis arena sabalenka by by taking part in this as she kept saying would happen all along um and look i i'm not going to think any worse of women's tennis because of this but you bet some people will you know an event that totally sort of did not need to happen will fuel the fire of misogyny that we know is out there.

6:10Catherine Whitaker: So from that point of view, as I said, all my worst fears realised. I think what I was most surprised by was how sort of bland and meh and really like lacking in show and style this was. In fact, the production of it was pretty poor and cheap seeming. certainly on the BBC there were a few merciful moments where we lost pictures for for quite a while and the you know and the commentary duo just had a sort of wide shot of the stadium and had to talk over it while we were hearing the background noise and and and the and the picture was breaking up and it was just really really poor and the players were trying to do a bit of back and forth but they weren't mic'd up so we couldn't hear them I thought the court with the different dimensions looked really really odd and jarring and everyone in the arena looked pretty bored and there were zero vibes coming through the screen whatsoever like really really flat so like obviously Sabalenka and Kyrgios and the people you know putting on this event the whole time were sort of distancing themselves from the seriousness of it you know they were hearing the criticism and they were saying look it's not that deep it's going to be entertaining That was kind of their counter argument.

7:32Catherine Whitaker: And I just, look, maybe some people found it entertaining. I just don't really think it even was that. It seemed to fall really, really flat to me.

7:44Matt Roberts: Yeah, no way to underline a lack of vibe than inviting Karen Hashanov to just inexplicably be present without any particular explanation. making a late run for the Holger Runa what are you doing here award for 2025 yeah look I echo everything that you said there Matt and I think Charlie your colleague James Hansen the Athletic put it put it brilliantly in a tweet earlier if your entire defence against charges of setting back women's tennis is it's a show, then it had better be a show. And it really wasn't. The whole thing to me looked cheap. It looked like it was done on the cheap. And I know events are expensive to put on, but I think they had some decent sponsors going on there.

8:49Matt Roberts: The fact that it was on the BBC and on Tennis Channel would have helped bring in significant sponsor backing, I would have thought and it that whole situation just sort of emphasized to me how much this was just a hollow hollow money grab for for everybody involved and I couldn't quite believe my eyes that I was watching this unfold on BBC One during sort of prime BBC One hours on the Sunday after Christmas. Yeah I think broadly this it needed to have stakes or vibes and it ended up with neither really because you you actually watching it you're like the the way this would work you know obviously 1973 there was there were huge stakes you know it really meant something and those stakes don't exist now thankfully um the the only way it would have been interesting in that sense was if they if there was needle if they really didn't like one another for whatever reason you know and i don't mean that kyrgios sabalenka necessarily but whoever was facing each other or you kind of lean into the vibes of it and you really do make it a show and at a bare minimum like you said I think if they had mic'd them up that could have been quite fun like they are both you know they you know people have their views on Nick Kyrgios certainly but he can be reasonably entertaining you know he's he that could have been quite interesting seeing them or mic'd up at change of ends that sort of thing but there wasn't really they might have been able to explain my Karen Hashanah exactly little cameo from Karen Hashanah but only we could have heard the explanation um yeah it was i mean and then there's that weird moment where like kaka and ronaldo were sort of entered why were they so late they were but but they weren't even unveiled in any sort of particular way they were just sort of there and they just had to wait and then and you know like they had to shuffle past peter crouch yeah crouch yeah justice for peter

10:40Catherine Whitaker: crouch why did he not get his own entrance time yeah that's true um but even and then like you had the sabalenka doing the macarena thing which again if charlie that was my low point of the day

10:51Matt Roberts: yeah but i think if it really made my soul slide out of slide out of me so bad but if that but that it was that's what i mean it was also confused because it was like it's both what is this a kind of does this have any importance or is it just a hit and giggle if it's a hit and giggle well, fine, lean into that. And you have Sabalenka doing the Macarena or whatever. But it was all, I don't know, it just found itself caught in between those two things. And actually... It looked poorly planned, didn't it? Like even down to the fact that, okay, Sabalenka had that big entrance in the sparkly coat, which, you know, fine, whatever.

11:33Matt Roberts: But like prior to that, Nick Kyrgios had just sort of wandered onto court, holding a... It looked like the child was sort of showing him the way because he'd got lost. It was really bizarre. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it was. I mean, and also I think what happened was there was obviously a lot of hype going into it. And to give it its due, it did get a lot of attention. You know, with the fact that it was on the BBC, as you say, in this primetime slot, what a coup that is, you know, for any event. And, you know, all the big broadcasters were covering it and talking about it in the lead up and probably will do tomorrow, there will be quite a lot of reaction to it.

12:14I think a lot of people probably felt quite numb once they started watching it because it was just a bit confused as to what it was trying to do. And as you said, the court sort of gave you a bit of a headache, that kind of jagged, it looked like a really old, really bad graphics computer game where things didn't quite line up properly.

12:35Matt Roberts: It looked like there'd been a mistake with the machine. yeah exactly I mean the thing is as well like it is it's it's hard in a way because I I agree with you Matt what you were saying about oh you know clearly it's not gonna you know there are going to be a lot of people who have bad takes in this in bad faith you know about what it means women's tennis and all of that for me as someone who you know follows the sport very closely this sort of thing isn't revelatory like you we know that like this isn't a surprise like that Sabalenka is losing to Nick Kyrgios. You know, this has been done to death.

13:11Like, that's not interesting. I actually found it more, but I didn't feel like it, so I don't feel it did necessarily set women's tennis back hugely. I actually felt more sorry, in a way, for Kyrgios, because Sabalenka next month goes and tries to win a fifth Grand Slam title. Whereas this is sort of Kyrgios' tennis reality now, isn't it? I mean, doing these sorts of events. You know, Sabalenka can move on from this.

13:36Matt Roberts: He wants any different tennis reality than a big payday? Nah, maybe not. Which is what he got today. Yeah, yeah, maybe it's fine. And a load of publicity. But this will, but there's a finite amount of things like this you can do, really, isn't there? I mean, there's huge diminishing returns. Oh, I think Evolve. But there won't. Thinking up ways to deepen that well every day. Yeah, I suppose, but like this, this got a lot of attention because it was a kind of novelty thing. and yeah maybe Kyrgios can't maybe the interest in him will sustain in across the world you'll be able to find venues that will put things on for him but I don't know like Sabalenka this will be quite quick you know when she's competing for the Australian Open title as the world number one I think this will feel like quite a distant memory whereas I don't really know what You know, he is far, far less relevant in the world of tennis than she is.

14:32And yeah, I just, I think she'll, you know, we'll talk to her about it in Australia. She'll be grilled about it. But then it will become a kind of secondary thing. Whereas, you know, Nick Kyrgios, I don't know. I don't know sort of how much more we'll see of him in competitive tennis anyway.

14:50Catherine Whitaker: yeah i certainly don't feel sorry for nick kiros that this is all that his sort of tennis life has been reduced to but you could really tell that that was certainly true by the quite sort of extraordinary statements he was coming out with in the build-up to this talking about how you know this is going to be one of the most watched sporting events of the last decade and how he said afterwards this is all all anyone in the world has been talking about for the last six months you know and it was it was it was these sorts of statements around the event and talking about what a sellout it was that were just indicative of this event taking place in this culture of delusion that we now live in where you can say things and they can just be entirely unchallenged and and and and they're sort of presented as as as fact and and i sort of found And that element of it really, really sort of tough to stomach as well.

15:48Catherine Whitaker: I thought, you know, in terms of my expectations of the day, I would say the BBC did actually cover it with a with a slightly more sort of critical lens than I was expecting. And I thought I thought Russell Fuller, particularly in the studio, provided a really valuable perspective in the kind of build up. But I was kind of left there thinking sort of, if it is such nonsense, which Russell Fuller is sort of putting across really well, why are you showing it? Like the sort of constant tension was kind of existing as I was watching it. It was a very, very strange feeling having that on the BBC.

16:25Matt Roberts: Yeah, the whole, exactly. The whole thing was emblematic of the age, wasn't it? of unchallenged sort of bent reality, just stated as fact. And populism, there's a lot of people out there, most of them men, saying, well, lots of people watched it, so that justifies its existence and its prominence in our discourse. I mean, lots of people would have watched it if they were both naked. you know like does that does that justify that concept like surely there has to be more than ratings like we we want we want as a people to to be better than that right yeah i mean i guess that the question that comes from it is what does it mean anything you know does this tie into a kind of exhibitionification of the sport you know where we're going to see more and more of these like we are seeing more of those um and some are more high profile than others is that what you know tennis as the u.s open knows you can't necessarily schedule the matches you want i've you know the fact they never had a federa nadal match let alone a final um you know that that's where it differs from a sport like boxing or something like that so and you know luckily on the men's side, Sinner and Alcraz play each other all the time anyway.

17:56So you don't need to kind of fix things in this way. But yeah, or is it just a kind of weird one-off thing that happened that we'll look back on in the way that we do that time? Nadal and Federer played on a half grass court, half clay court. You know, I don't know.

18:12Matt Roberts: That was great. Sabalenka, unfortunately. Yeah, I was going to say, Matt is going to defend that with his life. Matt's still watching reruns of that on YouTube. So Savalenka was talking about wanting to play more. I don't know, like it hadn't even occurred to me that this would be anything other than a one-off, but maybe that was spectacularly naive of me. I mean, as the US Open has shown, one of the areas where, and the Hotman Cup and events like that, like where tennis can be, there is such a potency, is that it's one of the very few sports that men and women can really play together that will always be like an incredible usp that the sport doesn't really lean into now obviously this is a kind of very mangled strange form of that but i do wonder if a grand slam like the australian open would look at this and wonder is there a fun entertaining way you can do it you know so you get i don't know like a mini tournament in one of the days leading up not so it's because the problem with this match was that it got quite boring quite quickly because it was kind of like what is it they're sort of playing at three quarter pace it was on a slow court but if you did a kind of i don't know where you've got coco goff playing against one of her good mates on the atp side you know could you do a sort of best of three games or something just just make it a bit of fun or maybe you do just do it as mixed doubles i don't know but i don't know if there's like a kernel of something in this uh that other events will look at and think this might be entertaining I mean some you know not one point slam not quite that sort of novelty but I don't know are we that desperate though are we that desperate that we're looking this hard for kernels well I mean I'm sure a lot of the slams are looking at the mixed doubles event that the US Open put on and wondering whether they can do sort of equivalence of that um and they probably don't want to just like completely copy it so so they might you know they might be looking at other innovative ways they can do it with different rules and that sort of thing I do think the micing up bit is really important to like show a bit of the player's personality and make it fun and I think that that was a big misstep I mean I honestly think I mean it it looked like a cost saving to me it looked like every possible cost had been spared.

20:39Matt Roberts: You know, there was no electronic line calling. There was no feature made of the 9 % smaller court. It genuinely looked like there'd been a mistake in the manufacturing of the court. Why was the court grey? I was thinking, is grey the cheapest colour to print? Is grey paint the cheapest? It just looked so shite, I thought. And it It made me think about the first time when this event came onto my radar, all of our radars, watching some social video of Kyrgios and Bublik during US Open. And I remember thinking, sort of picturing in my head that this is probably what it would look like and I would barely pay any attention to it and it would come and be gone and be a gimmick and that's that.

21:30Matt Roberts: Like the craziness, the single most crazy thing to me is that this was on BBC One primetime this afternoon and that I was asked to go on. Well, I mean, all sorts of things over the course of the last 24 hours and two weeks or whatever. But, you know, I went on Five Live this morning to talk about it. Charlie, you went on Radio 4 yesterday evening. Like, that's what's crazy to me, that people have treated this thing as if it would be anything other than a bit of nonsense. Yeah, and that is why I'm kind of curious to know what, I mean, it was hard to really gauge much of a response, but I do wonder what people who aren't as close to tennis did make of it, whether they were entertained or whether they did have their, like how quickly their curiosity waned.

22:21Because as you said, like clearly there was interest. There was interest from all the broadcasters and newspapers and the idea of it. I just don't know how much then the reality did interest them. And I'd be interested to know what the ratings were or how quick the drop off was, how much people sort of stayed with it. Especially as, you know, in this country, the BBC's footage, which they were getting from Dubai, was cutting out. So which kind of added to the sort of like, what is this feel of it?

22:56Matt Roberts: I think that was the feed that was cutting out. I think that was universal. Yeah, that seemed to be what they were saying. Yeah, pretty big disaster that I would say. You're only broadcasting one match and a significant portion of it was the feed was dead. now I suspect that the rights were given away for free in a lot of cases because you know it being on prominent broadcasters generates value to sponsors you know that can be a good play nothing wrong with that kind of arrangement it's not uncommon so you know there won't be any lawsuits at play here But if that had happened during a Grand Slam final, say, you'd have rights holders suing the event for not delivering on what they'd paid for, frankly.

23:53Catherine Whitaker: the thing that I've spent I think the most time sort of thinking about is Irina Sabalenka's role in all of this and look we know she you know has never been a great sort of messenger for the cause of women's tennis and women's sport she's been a she's been an amazing example of it in terms of her play and her prowess and her competitiveness and her sheer talent and ability like that I'm not questioning that at all but in terms of like championing women's tennis she's never been great you know in terms of like the comments that she's given about you know I know I know that you're waiting for the men's matches thank you for coming to mind little little things like that but my mind did Charlie go back to kind of the article that you wrote right at the start of the year which was about how she is this tennis superstar and yet her endorsement and her brand deals don't yet match up and obviously i think that has changed quite a lot since she wrote that article obviously with her move to evolve but it did sort of strike me as a as a bit of a sort of desperate act i don't know from from marina sabalenka to sort of get involved in this and obviously it's happening now at the end of the year but this this idea would have been generated and talked about way earlier in the year when maybe she was still in that state of not quite having the endorsements and and and the brand deals that have since come and therefore in terms of her future i would sort of i would sort of hope that she would realize that she doesn't need to take part in an event like this like she is now getting much more of what she deserves but i don't i don't know whether she quite thinks like that yeah that's interesting i mean i my read on it is slightly different like i do feel there was an obliviousness from her um as to how this would look i do genuinely believe that um and yeah that that that piece i wrote was um yeah was was kind of about that it that her sort of profile and how much of a star she is and her great personality and vibe wasn't matching up and and you know a lot of that is to do with her nationality that's the reality and i think she's done incredibly well over the last year or So from a branding perspective to sort of overcome some of those disadvantages.

26:16But yeah, I think long term, I don't know how well this will play for her. But I do think it did come from because, you know, we know what she's like. She's great fun. She's, you know, she's a great vibe. You know, we were there in New York after she won the US Open and she came in in an even more extravagant kind of outfit and entrance to her press conference having won the US Open. even compared to tonight um and to be fair you know if you can get her on it like i remember interviewing her that last year's wta finals and she was talking about that push for equal prize money and that sort of thing and how you know the previous year in um at the wta finals when it was such a farce you know had been this kind of watershed moment and they didn't want that to happen again and that kind of thing but yeah i do think she she went into this thinking that it could be this bit of fun and i i think she really would have been surprised about the kind of level of backlash and i think even she i think will not like the fact that because you know i don't think she will have been grilled necessarily um in the immediate aftermath of this match but i think come the australian open because that will be the first time that we'll get to talk to her after it she is going to get a lot of questions about it and I think Will kind of be a bit like what's the big deal?

27:38It was a kind of bit of fun and I don't think necessarily would have thought about the wider ramifications of it and why it isn't as she's been saying you know necessarily going to be a step forward for women's tennis and the WTA tour

27:56Matt Roberts: Can't wait for that press conference Who's pumped? Okay anything further on the battle of the sexes until the next one, apparently. What a thought. Okay, that is it for part one, then join us in part two for things that aren't the battle of the sexes. Today's show is brought to you by Vanguard. To all the financial advisors listening, let's talk bonds for a minute. Capturing value in fixed income isn't easy. Bond markets are massive, murky, and let's be real, lots of firms throw a couple of flashy funds your way and call it a day, but not Vanguard. Vanguard bonds are institutional quality. Institutional quality isn't a tagline.

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30:36Matt Roberts: welcome back to part two of the tennis podcast where we turn our attention now to tennis the actual atp and wta tours and kind of anticipation of the 2026 tennis season which will be getting underway very shortly um and in fact before we do that a a revisiting of a story from 10 days or so ago that just keeps on rumbling because well actually very shortly after we recorded our last podcast Juan Carlos Ferreiro hired some sort of crisis communications person like big sort of Olivia Pope energy from Juan Carlos Ferreiro suddenly I think on Christmas Eve he he popped up on every Spanish media outlet that I have ever heard of.

31:27Catherine Whitaker: David did say he's a talker. We will find out.

31:32Matt Roberts: I thought it might be a few more days, hours, a bit more. But anyway, it turns out David, of course, was bang right. Juan Carlos Ferro is indeed a talker. Here is a selection of some of the very revealing things that he had to say on the demise of his coaching relationship with Carlos Alcaraz. Obviously, this is one side of the story. We haven't heard from Carlos Alcaraz yet. It seems like he's got no intention of saying anything until, of course, he comes to Melbourne and he comes to his pre-tournament press conference. But this is what we know from Ferraro about the split. He said, everything seemed like it was set to continue.

32:17Matt Roberts: It's true that when the year ends, there are certain things at the contract level that have to be looked at. And as in any new contract, looking ahead to next year, there were certain things on which we did not agree. It may be that they could have been saved if we had sat down to talk. But in the end, we didn't sit down and we decided not to continue. Ferreira was quick to shut down speculation around money. He said the financial issue wasn't one of the problems that led to the split. his comments addressed rumours in the Spanish press that had suggested he had demanded a dramatically higher salary in order to remain in Alcaraz's camps but he dismissed that he dismissed reports that a clash between training bases played a role Alcaraz had grown up training at the Carlos Alcaraz Academy in Murcia run by his father for more than 30 years as well.

33:12Matt Roberts: Ferreiro operates the Ferreiro Tennis Academy in Vilena, where Alcaraz spent much of his formative time on tour. Ferreiro said, we've never seen this as a rivalry. We've gradually come to understand that given the demands of the tour, Carlos would want to spend more time at home. We offered the academies he could train whenever necessary, but it was never an obligation. Never. I think maybe we both need some time to fully process this breakup. up. It's not so easy. Right now I'm hurting. These kinds of relationships are difficult to end overnight. I gave it my all. I poured my heart and soul into this project.

33:50Matt Roberts: I think I invested a huge amount of time, a lot of enthusiasm, a lot of work and I think it was important to find the team and the people who let me do it. In the end I'm incredibly grateful for something like this. He also, now he could have been being playful here, but when asked if he would ever coach Yannick Sinner, he did not say no. He said, not right now, it's all a bit raw with Carlos, but you never know, which I found very fun. I think the biggest single takeaway from this for me, Matt, is that he and Carlos Alcaraz haven't had a conversation. That this split, this split so seismic it prompted our first ever emergency YouTube live in very dramatic behind the scenes fashion.

34:51Matt Roberts: was not preceded by a conversation between the two men involved.

34:58Catherine Whitaker: I completely agree, Catherine. That was the key line that I saw as well. If we would have talked, we could have sorted it out. It just seems like madness, frankly, for any relationship to end like that. But let alone one that has lasted so long and been so successful. like what are we doing here on on all sides and uh yeah from a ferrero perspective you could tell that he was hurting he seemed really really sad in in these interviews that he did i i watched the one they did with marco and yeah there was a yeah he was sound he was sad and it was it was kind of all heightened by by the fact that alcaraz's trophies were there behind him while he was talking just sort of as a sort of physical reminder of what they achieved together like as you said obviously this is this is ferrero's side we haven't heard from the alcaraz camp we haven't heard from alcaraz himself other than his statement so for a full picture we'll probably need to wait for that but based on what we know so far i am really not getting good vibes about this at all it really feels like it could have been handled a lot better and therefore benefited both sides a lot better it does seem a really weird situation because clearly there were it seems like there were simmering kind of issues that if they really wanted to resolve they could have done and it got to the point where someone involved didn't really want to resolve those issues like think of the way like sinner and cahill have managed to somehow find solutions to keep it going even when it looked like it wasn't going to for whatever reason and then this where yeah they seem to that clearly there are differences and they haven't been able to work them out i just don't know how much will there has been to work them out or not enough will seemingly.

37:10Matt Roberts: It's pretty amazing to think that what what 10 days ago we did that emergency live stream and podcast reacting to the news we had Matt Flutterman on the show and look at the time we were fronting up that you know we had very little information and we were really just speculating about what might have caused this split and sort of Matt's take was that most likely this was a symptom of Alcoraz growing up and taking control of his team and his kind of his business and starting to make decisions for himself as an adult and kind of shed the the the paternal figure that had guided him through his formative years and now wasn't the right fit for him as a grown man.

38:04Matt Roberts: Now, again, it's just one side of the story, but based on the information that we have, it sounds like potentially the opposite of that. And what's happened is Carlos Alcaraz having extremely little agency in this. And okay, if he actively didn't want this to happen, I suppose it wouldn't have happened. But it sounds like something he's passively allowed to happen that's been driven by other people in his team rather than something that he has driven himself, which I find worrying. Though I guess it is in Ferrero's interest to make it seem like that. Like if you're trying to, you know, he's trying to present it to future employers potentially as well.

38:47And it looks far better on him if it's like, well, you know, the man himself didn't want to get rid of me. This was about intermediaries and misunderstandings.

38:55Matt Roberts: He's saying I've fallen for a Ferrero PR. He's got you hook, line and sinker. Who knows? But like that, you know, it would stand to reason that he that would be the kind of story he wants to tell. It may well be completely the accurate one, but we don't know yet. And it will be really interesting to hear Alcraz's side, how sort of candid he will be. That's another question. it's hard to imagine him coming into press in Australia and look even if this is his perspective on what's happened it's hard to imagine him coming in and saying yeah I wanted it was me I wanted rid of Juan Carlos I did the deed I'm the I'm the hit man it's it's hard to imagine that It does sound a lot like Ferreira is going to pop up with another player sometime fairly soon to me.

39:54And that's going to be interesting. Yeah, it will be. I mean, the Sinner obviously would be the sort of dream story, you know, in David's honour, the kind of WWF, WWE story there. You know, turning heel and coaching Alcaraz's great rival. but I mean but that I mean the problem is if he stays on the ATP tour it's hard to be that relevant unless you're coaching one of two players really um but it's going to be it's going to be interesting isn't it because Alcaraz you know we used him being so kind of his disposition is so sunny and especially at the start of the year and it's all fresh and new exciting vibes and whereas he's going to be getting a bit of a grilling straight off the bat which I don't think he'll be too comfortable with and too keen on.

40:43I mean, he's not really, it's so rare that, you know, he really, that he's, not that this is a controversy as such, but it's obviously a huge off court talking point. And yeah, I can't think of too many times where he's really going to have been grilled in this sort of way. Whereas obviously Sinner has had so much experience because of the doping ban and that. Yeah, but even then, you know,

41:08Matt Roberts: Every other player was getting asked about Sinner's. And of course Alcaraz got asked about Sinner's doping situation. And yet somehow the sort of the tone of the questioning was just sort of different because it felt like, oh, you know, you just don't quite feel right to quite sort of go there with Alcaraz. But this is, I agree, I think it's going to feel different to any press conference situation we've ever had with Carlos Alcaraz. and I'm not sure I'm looking forward to that. I mean, I'm sort of, sort of am on one hand because I, you know, I live for drama, but on the other hand, not. Yeah, because I do think it could genuinely affect him, which again, because you just, you don't really want to do that to him in some ways because he is, he feel, I mean, you know, he feels like a very sort of pure, quite chirpy personality.

42:07and I think he you know we've seen him he has been affected by things even like the whole the way Djokovic gets in his head I do think you know he can he can get a bit unsettled and a bit rattled by things and I wouldn't be hugely surprised if it did just put him off kilter a little bit at the start of the Australian Open and possibly throughout

42:29Matt Roberts: wouldn't be the tennis podcast with some pointless speculation on the basis of absolutely no evidence whatsoever taking Yannick Sinner out of it who do we think Ferreira might pop up to coach next if we had to place our bets he's done Zverev that went badly

42:50Catherine Whitaker: I think Charlie's made a good point though like I think on the ATP tour you'd have to go for someone pretty young that you could kind of nurture in a similar mould to Alcraz obviously like you know there's only one Carlos Alcarez he's not going to then he's going to like discover the next Carlos Alcarez but if you're if you're going to like someone ranked 10 to 20 there's there's it's such an obvious like step down but still within a similar mold of coaching you know like coaching at the top whereas I think if he went to a younger player someone he could try and work up the rankings so you can have success that way I think success is going to be easier to measure and have with a younger player than it is you know someone ranked 15 to 20 in the world right now because how do you make such a difference maybe he can maybe he's that good a coach that he can be the one to make the difference but i think he knows the reality of how good al karaz and sinner are and and closing that gap is not going to be something that he's going to take on just for anyone because i mean links wise someone like flavio caballi has trained you know he's spent off seasons with them you know he'll know them well he's a kind but again he's a sort of Alcaraz light in some ways you know he tries extravagant things sometimes doesn't make the wrong shot selection but he's just a different league so it would feel like a bit of a a step down um I mean yeah it would be incredibly exciting if you went for someone like Fonseca I guess and was like let's let's try and take you you know you've been on that similar trajectory to Alcaraz now let me take you on those last few steps like that that's one of the few moves I think where you could be a bit like wow yeah that's a that is a pretty exciting project to

44:37Matt Roberts: be working on post Alcaraz yeah okay so Ferrero to stay in sort of paternal coach yeah mold I do worry sort of just on that like the the kind of um the Alcaraz side of things I can imagine like as David said prophetically like he is chatty I do fear as well there'll be you know it might be the Australian Open it might be other tournaments that more stuff's going to come out from Ferraro that Alcraz will then be quizzed which obviously we will all lap up because that will be great but I don't think it'll be hugely helpful you know you can imagine Carlos Juan Carlos said in commentary or in an interview this about your game or this about your opponent or whatever it is and I think he'll feel quite uncomfortable with that kind of questioning exposing exactly and it wouldn't surprise me like who know he could be mouthing off during the Australian Open quite feasibly Ferreira well presumably Spanish if I don't know who the Spanish rights holders are for Australian Open potentially Euros but certainly used to be Eurosport Spain I mean if I'm a producer for them I'm putting in a call to Ferrero getting him getting him on the team

45:53Catherine Whitaker: I do think there is also a scenario where not in the short term but in the long term Alcaraz and Ferrero work it out and actually Ferrero's next move is potentially back to Alcaraz like I think it's not likely in the short term but given the statements given the love that clearly is still there between them. And maybe if Alcaraz has a dip, maybe if Alcaraz does have that dip in form, maybe it is a bit of a sort of realisation on both parts that actually this would be better for both of us if we can work this out. I don't think it's happening any time soon, but it wouldn't shock me if that happened.

46:36Catherine Whitaker: If it's the kind of Murray going back to Lendl kind of thing in a couple of years or so.

46:45Matt Roberts: The problem is, and look, sort of wider career, Al Krause has got plenty of time, but he's also sort of got a ticking clock, hasn't he? Like this Australian Open, this next tournament, the first one after this seismic split is his most important of the year. And the one he wants, the one he would sacrifice a second slam for this year. So he kind of, you know, if there weren't that pressure on completing, becoming the youngest man to complete the calendar slam, he'd say, OK, well, you know, look, he can afford to have a dud Australian Open and a lull and take some time to adjust to this really big change.

47:30Matt Roberts: But in his mind, he can't afford that. Unless he thinks or hopes there'll be the kind of new manager bounce that will carry him to the career grand slam. He needs a new manager first. Yeah. Allardyce waiting by the phone. There were reports I saw online earlier that Al Kraz had said he wanted Andy Murray. I can't find any verification for those, but obviously I want them to be true. I mean, that would be amazing. And I did get a few messages about that. I think Murray would say no. So my hunch on the basis of our conversation with him a month ago is that he really doesn't want to coach right now.

48:16Matt Roberts: I think he would find that extremely hard to say no to. But I think he would just about manage it. You don't think it would be like how he had no intention of coaching when Djokovic called him, but then you see that Djokovic is calling you and asking you to coach him. Exactly. I don't think he will do that exact same. I don't think he'll reenact that scenario. he can't just keep saying no I don't want to coach right now and then when the actual call comes in say yes can he true I mean you're right but there aren't that many people who you'd put in that bracket I mean there's basically Djokovic, Sinner and Alcaraz on the men's side look I think he'd find it very hard to say no to yeah thank you Charlie I appreciate it appreciate it Okay, look, that's it for part two.

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50:38Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast, where we look ahead now to proper tennis starting in just a few days' time. The United Cup is the first event off the blocks. The group stages and quarterfinals happening in Perth and Sydney, and then the semifinals and finals happening in Sydney. We had the news a couple of days ago that Jack Draper is out of the United Cup for Team GB and in fact out of the Australian Open. The mood music was there, wasn't it, when he pulled out of the two exhibitions that he was scheduled to play to start the comeback from the bone bruising to his arm, the injury that had been plaguing him throughout the summer and that he took a long break from tennis in order to heal following the US Open.

51:29Matt Roberts: He announced it on Boxing Day with a video message on social media, clearly devastated. You know, this is an ambitious guy that is desperate to compete and is champing at the bit and is currently being held back in a cage. and it kind of makes this decision all the more impressive to me because I think it would have been very easy for him to just give it a go and see how he got on. But he said, I've had this injury for a long time. I'm at the very, very end stages of the process and to step back on court, back into five-set tennis so soon just doesn't seem like the smart decision for me and my tennis.

52:16Matt Roberts: This is a worry though, Charlie, isn't it? because it's a long time away from the game already. This is a chronic injury that it doesn't seem like there's any kind of surgical solution for. And it's clearly still not healed properly to the point where he's totally confident in it. And long-term for Jack Draper, that's a concern. Yeah, it's really worrying. I mean, those quotes can make it seem like, you know, I guess the positive is that he feels he's coming right to the end of it. And this is just a kind of smart managing of his body. But yeah, it's going to be a long time since he played by the time he comes back in, well, hopefully February the earliest.

53:03And then he's basically going to go straight into Indian Wells, which got a thousand points to defend. That's going to be, that's a lot of pressure, you know, when you haven't played a lot of tennis. And I think that is sensible not to go straight back into best of five. And it was at the Australian Open last year, wasn't it? Won his first three matches, all five sets. And then he, you know, he pulled out against Alcrest, you know, kind of shell of a man by that point because he'd played so much tennis. So he knows as well as anyone how demanding that can be. So it does make, that does make some sense.

53:38But yeah, I mean, just so unfortunate because he's had lots of injuries before. and then it looked like he was kind of overcoming them and then getting these great results as a consequence of that, of finally being injury-free. I do just feel really sorry for him on a personal level. Being injured is just really, really rough. Whether you're an amateur, I mean, obviously it's way worse as a professional, but even as an amateur, anyone who's played any sport knows, it really does get you down. And I think for him, it must be so wearing and so frustrating having made that breakthrough. Like it's, you know, Karsu went back to when he won Indian Wells.

54:18You know, he was then number four in the world not long after. And it really did feel, and zooming out as well, like it is, it's a shame for the men's game because there really aren't that many people who we've thought could be realistic challenges to Sinner and Alcaraz over the last year or so. But he was one of them. He really was. And yeah, you could say maybe we were getting ahead of ourselves, but, you know, he beat Alcaraz pretty comfortably on the way to winning Indian Wells. Alcaraz talked about how he was nervous about playing Draper. Like clearly Draper has some aura in the locker room.

54:49And we saw last year he got hurt, Shelton got hurt, Feast got hurt, all of those guys. But yeah, mainly it's just for him. I just feel really sorry for him that this has happened. And I hope it is a case of he is just being sensible and it isn't one where it just keeps getting later and later because that's a little bit what's happened so far with, you know, oh, okay, he'll be back for UTS. He's, you know, plenty of time for that. Then that goes. Then it's the next exhibition in Macau, I think. And then once that, once those go, as you say, Catherine, I was pretty fearful. It felt, you know, a pretty long shot that he would, you know, maybe he'd play in Australia, but the idea of him being able to do much there felt increasingly remote.

55:36Matt Roberts: do we know Matt who's replacing him in the GB I do know drop the bomb Billy Harris big but I mean big for Billy Harris definitely GB are in Perth so that's Great Britain Emirati Karnou and apparently Billy Harris in Group E with Team Greece which is Sitsipas and Sakari. It's always Sitsipas and Sakari, isn't it? They are Greece. And then Team Japan, which features Naomi Osaka. You've also got Group C in Perth. That's France. The Rindeknesh-Boisson team. Rindeknesh playing alongside someone he's not related to for once. Switzerland, which is Stamarinka and Belinda Bencic. And Italy, which is the Vibzi, Kabali, Paulini duo.

56:30Matt Roberts: Very into that. And then you've got Group A also in Perth, which is USA. They're always in Perth, Team USA, aren't they? Coco Gough, I saw a video of her arriving at Perth Airport this morning and she did have a look of kind of Perth again, is it? About her. She's with Taylor Fritz. It's always Gough and Fritz. You've also got Spain and you've got Argentina. So that's Perth. In Sydney, you've got Group B, which is Canada, Mboko and Felix Orgelia Seem. You've got Belgium, which is Zizu Berg's and Elisa Mertens. And you've got China in Group B. You've got Group D, which is Australia. Alex de Minora and Maya Joint leading the line for Australia.

57:14Matt Roberts: Czechia have got Jakob Menchik and Barbora Krejcikova. And you've got Team Norway in Group D. Matt's just written rude for Team Norway. anyone anyone know the name of the Norwegian woman that appears at the United Cup and disappears forever after

57:34Catherine Whitaker: I've got Melen Helgo in my head and I don't know why I would have that in my head if it's not her

57:43Matt Roberts: we'll go with it Matt very good you've also got Group F in Sydney, Germany Eva Lise and Alexander Zverev, Poland, Svantec and Hrkacz, always Svantec and Hrkacz, and the Netherlands. Are Team USA going to defend their title in the United Cup, Matt Roberts?

58:11Catherine Whitaker: Well, Taylor Fritz is going to have to up his mixed doubles game, if that is the case, based on what we saw at the US Open. uh yeah i think i think they're probably the favorites again um it's funny i i i really enjoy the united cup you know like the start of the season i'm raring to go um i get to listen to you commentating and doing some courtside interviews catherine which is always fun um and yet i never really think like big picture about it like i i think it's because it maybe doesn't have the sort of baked in history that a lot of the other events have like i don't find myself thinking should this event be even bigger and better like i do with the billy jean king cup and the davis cup and i don't really find myself thinking oh my god i wonder who's going to win this event like to me all of that is kind of secondary to its real usp which is bringing the men and women together and starting the season in like a fun accessible way and I I don't know whether people feel differently like maybe people are absolutely hanging on the result of the United Cup and it's it's one of their like most important events of the season I don't see it like that at all I just have like a really good time watching it and treat it as like a really nice alternative to the more regular tour events that also take place in in the first week of the season like Like, I think we had a few years of ATP Cup where it really felt like they ruined the start of the tennis season.

59:50Catherine Whitaker: In the past couple of years, I've actually really enjoyed it again. Like, I think it's a great way for the tennis season to start with these different type of events. And the United Cup plays a big part in that. Like, I'm looking at the schedule and I know that, barring injury, we're going to get Raducanu Osaka, like, really early into the new season. I'm excited about that. We're going to have Dimonor Rude, I think, very early into the season. That's one I'm looking forward to. Like that France-Switzerland-Italy group is fantastic. Like so many fun names in there. Like it's just a good time. And as much as I can answer your question and say, I think probably Goff and Fritz are the favorites for the US.

1:00:31Catherine Whitaker: I just don't really think of the event in that way. It sort of exists somewhere between exhibition and serious for me. And I'm quite happy with that personally.

1:00:42Matt Roberts: And I think, Matt, perhaps the reason we don't have all the existential discussion about United Cup is because the United Cup is happy with that as well. I think it's comfortable with what it is and isn't trying to be more or different or tell us it's something it isn't quite. Like it knows that it's a large part of its value is imparted by its place in the calendar. and perhaps it's the fact that it's owned by Tennis Australia which also owns the Australian Open. Like it being a build-up to the event, to the Australian Open is fine by them because it is all part of the same Australian swing package but I do appreciate that.

1:01:24Matt Roberts: Like obviously they want to big up the event and tell us it's brilliant and make it as good as it can be but it doesn't feel like they're trying to tell me it's something it's not. I feel like we're all on the same page about what it is. Players, organisers, media, and everyone's kind of cool with that. Yeah, I was going to ask that. What's the feeling like on the ground? Does it have that same sort of more fun kind of vibe than it is? Or, you know, we've really got to be winning this. I mean, also everyone's in a good mood, aren't they, at the start of the year? Definitely. And it's very, yeah, it is all about the vibe and the freshness, but sort of little indicators always or one sort of key indicator of this sort of thing of whether it's sort of trying an event is trying to big itself up more is whether on-court interviewers ask, what would it mean to you to win the United Cup?

1:02:19Matt Roberts: nobody's nobody's pushing that agenda or trying to force slightly contrived quotes out of players that don't want to slag off the tournament they're in or do it down but you know we we all know that united cup champion is is not featuring on coco goff's cv anywhere anywhere prominently but i also think that when she's in it she is competing very very hard and I think that is because of its place in the calendar yeah and because of the quality of the opposition you know she could be you know last year she faced Iga Shontek in her last match before the Australian Open that

1:03:05Matt Roberts: matters and in a way in a way that an exhibition match wouldn't it's critically more than an exhibition but it is also imparted its its value and its significant and its vibes significance and its vibes by its place in the calendar and i think that's that's absolutely fine no i think that's such an important distinction though is that like when an event doesn't try to kind of ram its importance down your throat that that is such a big turn off. So who's going to win it? Who's going to get it on their CV? Who is going to, yeah, finally tick that box. United Cup champion. How does that sound? It is kind of hard to say because, and this is a bit of a cop-out, but players will be in varying states of readiness

1:04:02and competitiveness to an extent and kind of how much they kind of knee the matches, et cetera, et cetera. It's tough. I mean, you look on paper, Team USA does look like in a pretty good position.

1:04:19Matt Roberts: They've got a mixed double specialist. Yes.

1:04:26But no, I think like, yeah, I would say,

1:04:29Matt Roberts: I mean, Spain and Argentina is a good draw, isn't it? Matt hasn't even bothered to write any of the, players in Team Spain or Team Argentina.

1:04:37Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, that's unfair to, I believe it's Munar for Spain. You're a big Munar guy now. Yeah, and he was brilliant. He was brilliant last year. Didn't even get on the agenda. Sebastian Baez, I want to say, is playing for Argentina on the men's side.

1:04:52Matt Roberts: It's a good draw for Team USA, isn't it?

1:04:55Catherine Whitaker: Yeah.

1:04:55Matt Roberts: Yeah. Okay, let's all say that Team USA are going to defend the United Cup. I think Team Canada could be fun that is a really fun pairing very good that's good vibes I mean Germany Avalise and Zverev just as a you know kind of just in tennis terms what's that chemistry going to be like I mean Avalise obviously with great memories of Australia from last year that was her kind of big breakout event and she's gone She's been there for a while. She seems to have gone really early to Australia. I've seen social media content of her in Australia for quite a long time. Maybe she's into the ashes. Could be.

1:05:43I would have had more time to do it. Her money's worth.

1:05:47Matt Roberts: Yeah. Her day three tickets. Are the tournaments taking place in week one of the 2026 tennis calendar? WTA Brisbane, which is a 500 event on the women's side. Irina Sabalenka in the field there. Amanda Anisimova, Elena Rabakina, Jessica Begula, Madison Keyes, Mira Andreeva, Katerina Alexandrova, Clara Towson, Karolina Mukova, Leila Fernandez. That is, Matt, a heck of a field.

1:06:20Catherine Whitaker: It's so good. I said on our recent Friends Q &A that, look, I love the United Cup. I'll just explain why I like it. I also love the first PDF draw of the season that comes out. And it tends to be WTA Brisbane. And it's just straight fire from round one. There's going to be so many good matches there straight away. And especially as well in the second round. Like, yeah, it's a pretty mouthwatering start to the season in Brisbane. And then it's got the ATP 250 event attached to it as well, which is you know kind of my favorite thing really like a one week combined event i know they're at slightly different you know stages in terms of 250 and 500 it's not exactly the same but it's just a really good vibe always in in brisbane as well i tend to think in my mind i always think of brisbane as having like a quite fast court as well like i like i think it's quite exciting tennis to start the season often as well yeah it's a good venue brisbane but this as well does show what we've spoken about so many times before but the potency of like a little bit of a break and we're already like so much what we're talking about is just the fact that it's kind of the first and everything feels so exciting right at the start but that would be even more if this was all in October Charlie oh exactly yeah you'd just be like looking at that draw like another draw yeah I'm sick of draws I'm drowning in draws right now it's like give me a draw

1:07:49Matt Roberts: the men's draw in Brisbane we've got Daniel Medvedev Alejandro Davidovich Fikina Yuli Lehechka Tommy Paul Denis Shapovalov Joel Fonseca Lerner Tien Francis Tiafoe Valentin Vachero is a name we pick out in fields now

1:08:04Catherine Whitaker: and Thomas Mahatch absolutely desperate to get her Medvedev Tien week one of the ATP season

1:08:11Matt Roberts: I think they'll I'm just assuming they'll play every week of 2026 that's what they do isn't it

1:08:16Catherine Whitaker: I just had such a good time. It just, yeah, like, give me that, please, draw gods.

1:08:22Matt Roberts: Absolutely. Matt is waiting for the PDF. We have the WTA in Auckland with Svitolina, Navarro, Eala, Jovic, Sonny Cartel, Donna Vekic and Venus Williams?

1:08:39Catherine Whitaker: Correct. She has a wild card. Okay. Newly married Venus Williams. Yeah, congratulations Venus. We have been burned by Venus Williams' wild cards. They're not quite materialising before. Believe it.

1:08:53Matt Roberts: There was a moment, I only hovered because I thought, could it be Michael Venus? Because he is from New Zealand. He is. But why would he make it onto the agenda when poor old Jaume Munar couldn't? So that was the thought process. Into a WTA event. Is this a kind of extended battle of the sexes? Michael Venus against the field. This is what they give the public what they want.

1:09:18Catherine Whitaker: And again, I think this is a fun start to the season. Like Brisbane is your big hitters on the WTA side and Auckland's always like a sort of alternative field, you know. It's indie, isn't it? It's indie. It's kind of your hitster tennis fans. Yeah.

1:09:38Matt Roberts: Okay, well, on the indie side of things for the men is the ATP event in Hong Kong where you've got Lorenzo Mazzetti, fresh as a daisy from his four-week-long off-season nursing a newborn baby. Lorenzo Mazzetti, Andrei Rublev, Karen Hashanov, hot-footing it from Dubai, Alexander Bublik and Art of Feast making his comeback. Mac. Muzzetti came out of the blocks last year, Mac, with a new haircut, a new kit, a new kit sponsor and a new serve.

1:10:17Catherine Whitaker: He's already got a new haircut. So all eyes on Muzzetti in Hong Kong.

1:10:20Matt Roberts: He's already got a new haircut? Yeah.

1:10:22Catherine Whitaker: What's he done? He's gone quite short the sides.

1:10:28Matt Roberts: A fade?

1:10:30Catherine Whitaker: Yeah.

1:10:34Okay.

1:10:34Matt Roberts: Is it good?

1:10:36Catherine Whitaker: I haven't seen many angles of it but I think it's pretty good yeah

1:10:42Matt Roberts: the internet get Matt Roberts more angles of Lorenzo Mazzetti's new haircut please we need a better assessment the feast comeback is quite a big deal well hopefully yeah I mean hopefully he sort of is ready and he's not doing a kind of what Jack Draper decided not to do I believe Marin Cilic is also playing that event if you wanted more vibes more good vibes still knocking around um thanks for that charlie you big follower of the um did marion chileach win today twitter account he's behind it pushing their agenda yeah he's a love a lovely bloke uh absolutely no one's disputing that charlie i mean for mazzetti i do think like given how sort of torturous last year was you know towards the end for him to pick himself up and go again must be i don't know it must feel like there is a long way to go from here maybe you'll feel

1:11:45Catherine Whitaker: refreshed i don't know i mean in terms of you know you said this year he came out with a new serve i think you know his big change this year is is he's got a new coach hasn't he jose perlas he's been added to the team he hasn't ripped up his team he's he's added Pirlas who used to work with I think Ferreira in fact um and and and a whole host of Spanish players of that generation I think he's worked with Fennini as well more recently and I think Mazzetti is one who is like he's got a shot to close the gap I would say on clay like I think I think we certainly saw the improvements he made to his game on hardcore.

1:12:27Catherine Whitaker: And that went a long way to helping him get into the top 10 and get to Turin. But in terms of like Mazzetti being an actual threat to the big two, I've just used that term. I didn't really mean to use that term, but Alcaraz and Sinner, like it might be that you get like surface specialists who can do it. Like we might move into more sort of that kind of vibe again. And I think Mazzetti on clay, you know, he took a set off Alcaraz in Monte Carlo and at the French Open. He won the first set both times and both times his body let him down. He was having to push himself to such an extreme to live with Alcaraz.

1:13:03Catherine Whitaker: But I think just on the tennis front for a set there, maybe longer at the French Open, he was with him. And I think if he can make the improvement sort of physically, he will see that there's a bit of opportunity there maybe to close the gap. Now, that's all very well and good, you know, because then if he'd beaten Alcaraz, he'd have still had to try and beat Sinner and do it again. Like it's really, really hard. It's going to be so hard. But I do think Mazzetti is one based on the season he just had, adding someone to his team who will genuinely be looking at 2026 as a chance to like try and make up some ground on the field.

1:13:40Catherine Whitaker: I think he's hungry for it, you know? And that's been a real change, I think, in Mazzetti over the last couple of years. Like he's super serious now in a way that I'm not sure he always was. and that's quite exciting to me. Could he be the Ferraro project?

1:13:57Matt Roberts: Well, I was just... Yeah, maybe. I was just going to say, he's my poster boy for it being possible to grow fangs. Hmm. Imagine what Ferraro could do with him from this point.

1:14:14Catherine Whitaker: Well, let's give José Pérez a go.

1:14:18Matt Roberts: He hasn't even had a go yet. It's had to both. Okay.

1:14:29Matt Roberts: Folks, we have our first mascot of the 2026 tennis season. That mascot, oh, what a beauty we have here. It is Remus, owned by Rebecca Monk. Remus is a one-year-old rescue pup who Rebecca says we got from Dogs Trust just before Christmas 2024. What a wonderful thing. He's a blue staffy Sharpay cross. And after a rough start in life, says Rebecca, he's now settled in well and wants nothing more than to sit next to us on the sofa for snuggles. He's best friends with our six-year-old daughter Odette, and they have wonderful fun together. I haven't yet managed to get him interested in tennis, but I'm working on it.

1:15:09Matt Roberts: Maybe Lorenzo Mazzetti's new haircut will pull Remus in. He is an absolutely gorgeous boy. I hope you've had a wonderful Christmas together with Remus as a family with lots and lots of snuggles. I can't stop looking at him and his little foldy over ears. He is absolutely beautiful. Thank you, Remus, for being our first mascot of the 2026 tennis season. We have our mascots and they will be revealed in the coming days. No tennis podcast presenter left on the shelf. No sirree. Big announcements to come soon. Matt, let's have some shout outs.

1:15:52Catherine Whitaker: We have Tony and Nancy Zollo, who are self-described long-time listeners from Edwardsville, Illinois.

1:16:04Matt Roberts: Tony and Nancy. Hello. Charlie, any tennis Tonys or Nancys? Tony Pickard. Tony Roche. Yep. Tony Godstick. There's a Federer connection there, isn't there? Yeah, if we're going behind the scenes. Picard was Ed Berg's coach. Ed Berg was Federer's coach, as was Tony Roach. Roachie. Is that how you know him? That's how he was always referred to in commentary. And I was always like, who is this Roachie guy that they're talking about? And my mum would be like, that's Tony Roach. There is no name that Australians can't put a Y on. It's incredible. And then what was the second name? Nancy. We've got Nancy Ritchie.

1:16:48yeah

1:16:49Matt Roberts: original nine member Nancy Richie actually very good tennis names well done Tony and Nancy trying to think of another Nancy we've got a good one enough Charlie you've got to know your limits with this game yeah thank you Tony and Nancy we've also

1:17:08Catherine Whitaker: got Michael Gisborne from Yorkshire

1:17:12Matt Roberts: hello Michael a Yorkshire lad

1:17:16Catherine Whitaker: and Michael says I've been listening to the podcast since pre-mat I first went to Wimbledon in the 70s and then in 1986 when I saw Jimmy Connors come back from two sets down and one four in the third to win which I think was against Michael Pernfors wasn't it that was always rolled out as a Michael Pernfors stat on the champions tour wasn't it that he once led Jimmy Connors by two sets to love and 4-1 and lost.

1:17:43Matt Roberts: I've interviewed Michael Pernforce about that exact experience several times.

1:17:48Catherine Whitaker: I'm sure you have and Michael says.

1:17:50Matt Roberts: He's famous for that and the man that he was the player that McEnroe was playing when he got defaulted at the Australian Open. Unfortunately those are the two things that Michael Pernforce is famous for. He's the loveliest man, Michael Pernforce.

1:18:04Catherine Whitaker: And well, like our Michael who says I now watch live tennis most years at the Nottingham Open. I also watch live football, having seen Blackburn Rovers lose at home to Fulham, Reading and West Brom over the years.

1:18:21Matt Roberts: The Holy Trinity. Now he hasn't said Arsenal, Charlie, but I'm going to assume he's seen them lose to Arsenal as well. Yes, they're not for a while. Having just not played them for a while, you know, I'm sure they would love to be in a position to lose to Arsenal.

1:18:37Catherine Whitaker: I wonder if it was at the game when we beat them 7-0. Get in touch, Michael.

1:18:45Matt Roberts: You two have just done a very smug 15 seconds of football chat between you. Michael, thank you ever so much. It sounds on the basis of those dates like it might be a while since someone's called you a lad. So you're welcome.

1:19:00Catherine Whitaker: And finally, we have Catherine's dad, David Whittaker, for a shout out.

1:19:07Matt Roberts: Oh, hello, Catherine's dad.

1:19:11Catherine Whitaker: Catherine's dad says, Catherine, of your own parish, there was a time I didn't know what a podcast was and happy Christmas. Oh, oh.

1:19:24Matt Roberts: And there was a time several years into us producing this podcast where my dad said he couldn't listen because he doesn't get on with headphones.

1:19:34Matt Roberts: Look at us now. He never misses an episode. he's always the first to listen because I'll get his review precisely an hour after it's gone up. Has he now altered his view on headphones? Did the sort of ubiquity now of wireless headphones make a difference? I'd say he still isn't a headphone fan, Charlie. He mostly listens through speakers while stringing tennis rackets or in the car. Right. I'd say he's discovered ways around the headphone issue rather than got over himself. Yeah.

1:20:12Catherine Whitaker: And he's listed lots of tennis Davids for us.

1:20:16Matt Roberts: Oh, let's hear his list. Law?

1:20:20Catherine Whitaker: I've got one in my head. I wonder if he's gone with this one. It starts with Sanguinetti.

1:20:26Matt Roberts: Oh, my dad always liked Davide Sanguinetti.

1:20:30Catherine Whitaker: He's also got Ferrer, Nalbandian, Felgate, Wheaton and Lloyd. I had Prinnacil, who is so David Law-coded. He would definitely have much to say, more than anyone would have to say about him. Yeah, David would definitely have an anecdote.

1:20:50Matt Roberts: Could you, Charlie, pick David Prinnacil out of a lineup? Not a chance. To the point where I don't think I could tell you anything. I think he's German. I think that's all I could tell you. I know nothing else about him. If he walked in looking like he did in the 90s, if he walked in frozen in time, could you identify him? Even then, no, because all I know is his name from draw sheets that I would have read in Wimbledon programmes. This isn't based on having seen him. And yet he was the David that was in your mind. The name is just so embedded. And it's not like you would have been going deep in any of these Wimbledon draws.

1:21:29But, you know, the things that stay lodged in your brain. I don't know.

1:21:33Matt Roberts: I think Andre Pavel was that guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yuri Novak, another one. Yeah. If those three, if that trio walked in now and we had to identify who was Yuri Novak, who was Andre Pavel and who was David Prylis. Honestly, if my life depended on it, I don't think I could do it. The fun we would have. The niche fun. Charlie thank you ever so much for your time and energy and willingness to watch the Battle of the Sexes today you're very well you didn't even watch it live you watched it I had to watch I was yeah I was driving during it and so you know pulled up checked my phone uh and had I mean the north of 100 messages I think on our whatsapp chat and yeah that gave me some impression of yeah oh really positive about how great we were having so yeah i was then like and i've now got to sit through this not even as live but um yeah well worth it thank you charlie we are of course part of the athletic podcast network check out charlie's writing uh matt's writing james is writing everything they've got to say it's good stuff folks um and look forward to seeing you in australia charlie yes uh matt thank you as well thank you i don't usually thank you but it it feels rude having

1:22:57Catherine Whitaker: thanked charlie to not thank you safe travels katherine thank you very much this time tomorrow

1:23:03Matt Roberts: i will be on a flight to perth all being well um are you getting the direct flight because there is one isn't there i'm not getting the direct flight charlie i did last year and i did find it a very good experience um but it was really expensive this year and i yeah fair enough i'm a bit annoyed about it but the but quantus didn't have wi-fi on their long distance flights and i i did find that problematic so swings and roundabouts yeah it's too long on a plane you're better off you're better off splitting up agreed agreed um folks thank you very much for listening. Just one thing I wanted to say before we close the show today, we had some incredibly sad news in the week, the tennis media community.

1:23:58Matt Roberts: We had the news that Duncan Mackenzie-McCarg, a colleague of ours, a roving reporter for Stan Sports in Australia, somebody that was an ever-present at Grand Slam tennis events for the past few years and more. He died this week, aged just 41, out in LA where he was based. Incredibly sad news, as you can imagine, and something that's been very much in our minds. So I just wanted to pay tribute to Duncan and all his work in the tennis community and say that we're thinking of all his loved ones at the moment because that is obviously a devastating thing to have happened. So Duncan and his loved ones very much in our thoughts at the moment.

1:24:45Matt Roberts: We will be back on Monday, the 5th of January with David for our next show. Thank you for listening. Happy New Year. We'll speak to you then.

1:25:05We just had Lucky's first birthday, and it was so great to be able to go into Michael's and get everything.

1:25:09Matt Roberts: Of course, I knew they had craft supplies there, but I didn't realize how expansive their party supplies were. And Michael's really is where you can go to get everything for a party, whether you're planning a kid's birthday or even an adult celebration. They've got over 4 ,500 party supplies, more than 60 different themes, and prices starting at just 99 cents. Plus, they've recently lowered prices on hundreds of items. We found adorable decorations, balloons, everything we needed to pull the party together without making a bunch of different shopping trips. Plus, I always have a good time going to Michael's.

1:25:40I love shopping there. I could just browse the aisles forever. But if you're short on time, like I always seem to be, you can also get same-day delivery or buy online and pick up at the store.

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