Cincinnati - Who's winning this thing?

0:00As a small business owner, you're the CEO, the marketing team, and the customer service rep all at once. I was recently talking to a shop owner who told me their worst nightmare isn't a slow day, it's the vanishing act. It's that moment you're inches away from a deadline and the Wi-Fi just disappears. We've all felt that pit in our stomach when the connection flares up right when it matters most. Your business is only as strong as your connection. AT &T Business is the reliable provider built for that exact brand of hustle. so you can stay focused on the work that builds your legacy. Powered by AT &T Business.

0:34Built to work. Get AT &T Business at business.att.com.

0:42Matt Roberts: AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the Fortune 500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows and AI connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at ServiceNow.com.

1:27Matt Roberts: Well, hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast on this fine Friday morning. Friday the 15th of August, three days since we last spoke to you. Cincinnati edging towards its crescendo. We are midway through the quarterfinal stage in Cincinnati. So we're going to talk about everything that's happened in the last few days. Look ahead to what might happen over the next few days. David, how are you doing? I'm all right on this bright, sunny day. I mean, I may as well just keep saying that, really, because it's sunny every day at the moment in Solihull. Yes, I've been told to turn my fan down because it's audible or it was audible.

2:05Matt Roberts: So I'm going to be getting sweatier over the course of this podcast. Everyone can listen out for the deterioration in the quality of my material as I grow more uncomfortable in the heat wave. it's lovely though and nowhere near as bad as Cincinnati which looks absolutely monstrous Matt in terms of conditions

2:26Catherine Whitaker: it does yeah we've had a lot of conditions a lot of rain in the days since we last recorded but when it's not been raining it's just looked extremely unpleasant to be playing in those sorts of conditions with the heat and humidity lots of retirements on the men's side And yeah, here we are. 8am recording for us. I'm going to put out a statement in English and Spanish later. Alejandro Davidovich Fakina style. Who can expect me to be working at this time?

3:00Matt Roberts: Me. I asked for an 8am recording. Everybody was on the floor in shock when I sent that voice note. But I've got a haircut. I've got a pre-Gran Slam haircut. Victor's coming to town. God, imagine if I had a Victor. Right, just before we get into it, a PSA very quickly about our live show that we mentioned on Tuesday in Wrexham. Yep, us and Ryan Reynolds, we are Wrexham people now. October the 22nd at the Grove Park Theatre in Wrexham. A lot of you have asked us to put on a show outside of London, so this is us doing just that. we're very excited tickets went on sale for Friends on Tuesday and they go on general sale today in fact by the time you're listening to this they're probably already on sale the link will be in our show notes in our newsletter on our social media and the tickets are available via Eventbrite so if all else fails just google Eventbrite Tennis Podcast Wrexham Wrexham of course with a W and we hope to see you there we're very very excited so yeah come to Wrexham we'll be there my first time my first time in Wrexham I've never been before I've been to other places in Wales but never Wrexham have you been to North Wales?

4:27yes yes I used to go I used to go on family holidays to North Wales when I was about seven or eight years of age

4:33Matt Roberts: I think some members of my extended family might come because because I have family in North Wales so that'll be interesting that'll be excellent I'm sure they are into tennis or we'll be able to appreciate much of the material. We can turn them.

4:47Catherine Whitaker: And they're into you.

4:51Matt Roberts: Yeah, a bit, you know, once a year. Anyway, it's going to be fun. Price now. October 22nd.

4:59Catherine Whitaker: Bonus gathering for them.

5:02Matt Roberts: Yeah, exactly. Probably, probably too much. Right, let's get into it with Cincinnati. and let's start the Terence Atman apology tour. Who is this guy? He has now beaten Joel Fonseca, Flavio Caboli, Taylor Fritz, Holger Runa and he will now have the chance to take on Yannick Sinner. He's 23 years old, career high ranking of 118 in the world, doesn't have a kit sponsor, doesn't have an agent. Last time he was on our radar, he was being booed off Court Philippe Châtrier by his own fans. After having lost to Richard Gasquet. What on earth is happening in the world of Terence Atman, Matt?

5:52Catherine Whitaker: And last week he lost to Fakundo Bagnis on a hard court. And has now put together the best run of his career. and as you said he's going to have jumped 67 spots in the rankings he's going to be inside the top 70 now uh he's due to play u.s open qualifying next week if he beats yannick sinner in the semis he will be playing the final of cincinnati on the same day that u.s open qualifying starts so that's a it's a very very wild situation that we're in and yeah honestly the only times we've referenced him in the past has has been in relation to some sort of slightly dramatic incidents that he'd been involved in i remember the match against medvedev at the australian open where they were both really struggling physically and medvedev said that he was he was cramping but he also saw that atman was cramping down the other end and i think atman ended up retiring in that match and then of course the Richard Gasquet match at the French Open this year.

6:56Catherine Whitaker: Those were really what I knew Atman for. But this week I've had my eyes open to the quite extraordinary nature of the upper level of his game that he's been displaying against the likes of Fritz and Runa. I mean, this guy absolutely cracks the forehand in particular. that's the shot where he's got this incredible racket head speed he's also got it on the serve he's got a low ball toss and you don't really know where the serve's going but the forehand has done so much damage against fritz and against runa the backhand's more sort of slightly one pace slightly flatter he slices it as well he's a lefty i should say and he's just been playing with such incredible confidence against these top 10 players and it's really been an interesting sort of case study of sort of there are these guys ranked 100 150 in the world who've got this incredible level in them it's not the level necessarily that's been this thing blocking them to having these sorts of results I think it's a week in week out consistency I think keeping kind of emotions in check on court has often been stuff that Atman has struggled with.

8:17Catherine Whitaker: But this week, everything has come together. And he's been awesome. I mean, like, legitimately brilliant tennis. I've woken up to watch these matches back and sort of been expecting, like, a disaster from Fritz. And it wasn't that. I don't think Runa played particularly well. But basically they've just been beaten by a better player playing at their absolute peak. And now we've got the ultimate test of whether this run, this incredible form that he's piecing together can actually hurt Yannick Sinner. We were talking about players that can do damage to Yannick Sinner on the pod the other day. And I don't know, Atman feels like a perfect case study.

9:05Catherine Whitaker: Sinner's not going to know that much about him. He's playing the absolute best tennis of his life. Can Atman do damage to Sinner is now a question that I'm intrigued by. And if you said that a week ago, I'd have laughed you off the podcast.

9:26Matt Roberts: Whereas what we should have been laughing at was the proposal yesterday by David, which I seconded of can Felix Orgelia seem to do damage to Yannick Sinner being a potentially intriguing question because of the head-to-head. And I was like, yeah, it does add a layer of intrigue. And that all aged absolutely terribly. He's got one of France's biggest Pokemon collections, David, Terence Atman. He does magic tricks. He's nicknamed the magician, not sure by who, but there you go. He has an IQ of 158. These are things I have urgently learned about Terence Atman in the last three days.

10:08Catherine Whitaker: And he wrote Fermi Paradox on the camera after the win over Holger Runa. He's different, isn't he?

10:16Matt Roberts: He's different. He's coached by Guillaume Peer, who I imagine is a name. He previously coached Richard Gasquet and Marcus Bagdates. I don't, it wasn't a name that particularly landed with me, but I've read some articles about him where he has credited this coach with a lot of what's been happening to him. He's won a couple of challenger titles. he said the fact that a coach of that calibre with that CV believed in him meant a lot to him because I think that belief in his emotions generally is something that he's really struggled with. It's an interesting one, isn't it? Because you'll sometimes watch challenges or you'll see qualifying and you'll see a player that really stands out for their skill set, for the weapons and you think wow i'm really going to follow the progress of this player and then you'll not really see them in relevant tournaments to the tennis podcast for instance do you know the tour events because they're just not getting in them they're not able to string it together for whatever reason whether it is a a hitch in their game or more often something like that just not really believing in themselves not not really being dedicated professionals in maybe the way they need to in order to actually crack it and fulfill their potential.

11:43I love it when somebody comes out of the pack like this and clearly is shocking these top players to the boots because they're just... Taylor Fritz is a perfect example because he's Mr. Reliable. He's the guy who I always bank on, particularly in American hard-court tournaments. As long as Taylor Fritz is not injured, he's going to reach his seeding. That's what I always feel. And, you know, he looked so shocked towards the end of this match. I don't know what's happening. I'm doing my thing and this guy's beating me. And the same sort of thought occurred to me when he was being beaten by Gael Monfils in Australia at the start of this year.

12:24He just couldn't believe it. You know, I've cracked the sort of be a top pro and fulfill potential elements of my career. and now I'm running into a French guy playing out of his mind. And that's a couple of times that's happened this year to Taylor Fritz. It is quite interesting watching just the way Atman goes about it, the way he'll sort of totally gamble on running around his forehand, knowing that he's leaving the entire court. I mean, he is off the shot of the camera. He's so far out in the tram lines to hit the forehand. knowing he's got to hit a cold winner if he's going to win the point.

13:08And he gambles on that, and he falls away from the ball to give himself extra power and extra leverage and extra flatness to the strike. And look, I would imagine that Yannick Sinner will have answers to that. And I think there is also the question of, well, is there a point at which Atman's going to hit the wall? But equally, I'm far more intrigued by it than probably watching Sinner against Dimonor at this point, who we've seen him play so many times. And we just know that's a tough matchup for Dimonor. So, yeah, I like it. I'm enjoying this tournament because it's the last one before the US Open and watching these players try to jockey for position and find their form and tweak their games and then watching a guy like this just gatecrash everything.

13:56It's excellent.

13:59Matt Roberts: yeah apparently he broke 25 rackets last year it's good going I remember when Marit Safin told me he broke over 40 odd in 2000 and he seemed quite pleased to himself well I think the difference here is that Atman I mean Atman's had a total transformation on this front I haven't haven't followed him closely over the summer but as of as of early summer, which is when this article I've been reading is dated from the ATP tour, he hadn't broken a single one. That's interesting. He's made a real point of trying to clean up those areas of his mental approach, and I think this coach has been a big part of that.

14:44Matt Roberts: He says, I'm more emotional than the usual guy because I'm thinking more. I have more thoughts in my head, which is a takedown of all tennis players isn't it? He said, I've always been someone very sensitive, very nice. I was always really nervous on the court. I remember when I was 10 years old, I was already breaking rackets. It was always a part of me. So taking this off took a lot of time. He's really interesting. I'm into it. I mean, is he only chance? Does he really have a chance against Yannick Sinner? I mean,

15:20Catherine Whitaker: as much as anyone else does, I think. I mean, maybe other than Carlos Alcaraz, but honestly, like a different look, total form and confidence. I think one of the keys is to get Sinner out of his rhythm. Like you've got to be like, you can't just play a baseline slugfest against Yannick Sinner. You will lose. He has got probably a better forehand and backhand than you. And he moves better than you. and he's more locked in than you in the big moments. Like, you're going to lose. So you've got to do something else. And actually, again, I can't believe these words are coming out of my mouth. I don't think he particularly enjoyed playing Adrian Manorino the other night, Yannick Sinner.

16:07Catherine Whitaker: Oh, no. I really don't think he enjoyed that. With that low ball and, again, the leftiness. It's just a different look. And I think those different looks are what are going to be challenging for Sinner. Sinner will probably still come through and he'll still win. I think he's able to negate even some of the fancier games on tour. But as David said the other day, look at one of the losses he's taken this year, Bublik, a guy who's not interested in just going toe-to-toe in topspin rallies necessarily from the back of the court. He's got a slice, he comes forward. He's quite chaotic with his serve speeds.

16:46Catherine Whitaker: These sorts of things, I think it's very hard to pull off. It's very hard to do that over the course of a match and actually win. But Atman's been doing it against Fritz and against Runa. It's a big step to do it against Sinner, and I'd be stunned. I think by far the most likely outcome is Sinner in straight sets. But let's have a look. Let's see. let's see and that's that's interesting to me in a way that as David said we're getting used to a lot of these matchups maybe you know against Sinner and we know what's going to happen going into them this one I think I know what's going to happen but I don't know for sure and yeah thank you Terence Atman for providing us with that intrigue this week it's been a lot of fun

17:36Matt Roberts: just staying on Yannick Sinner sort of Adrian Manorino aside where I'm not quite sure there was jeopardy but there was a little bit of fun there certainly the questions that Adrian Manorino asked Yannick Sinner it was fun to see him work out how to come up with the answers which of course he inevitably did but I continue to be so struck David by how happy and chill and relaxed he looks It's like he's on holiday. And I know he's had a three-month break in the middle of the season, hasn't he? But he looks alarmingly chilled out, but in a way that isn't taking any kind of edge off his tennis at all.

18:24Yeah, well, and if you think it was a year ago, he would have been on all of these calls for hours on end to talk about and find out about his case and what was going to happen to him and all that sort of thing. And I think he is freed up by all of it now. He did an incredible job of compartmentalizing that a year ago. Whatever you think about it, how he did that, I will never know, to go and win back-to-back hardcourt majors with all that going on. But, yeah, he just seems very at ease with his life, where he is. And as you say, I mean, the freshness is different to everybody else. They've all been grinding.

19:16I can't remember really a week that Alexander Zverev hasn't been playing a tournament, really, when there have been significant tournaments going on. And, I mean, I'm amazed that he manages to keep just grinding out tournaments like that. To me, it would get on top of you, really. But, yeah, Sinner's just not had that. And here he is, ready to go. And he's the man to beat.

19:43Matt Roberts: Yeah, I mean, what can you say, Matt? Sinner looks awesome, doesn't he? Yeah.

19:50Catherine Whitaker: And look, there was actually a huge awkwardness, I felt, to Sinha or Ziali Asim last night. I mean, look, I know that the big picture is Sinha's rise since they last met and Ziali Asim's decline. I think even by Orjee Ali's seam standards, this was a particularly bad day. Like he just had no feel on the ball at all. He was double faulting at really inopportune moments, you know, to give away breaks of serve. He didn't hit a single winner in the first set. He won nine points. Sinner broke himself at the start of the second set, but then just won six games in a row again. So Sinner won six games in a row in both sets to win 6-2.

20:34Catherine Whitaker: 6-2 and like it was it was a horrible performance from felix orgelli asim like i've just i've rarely seen a top player play that poorly to be honest like and kind of felt like just you could tell in the handshake at the net like they they both sort of just had a sort of slight look on their face like well that was that was rubbish wasn't it like just like i think i think orgelli asim was kind of embarrassed.

21:05Matt Roberts: Like me and David at the Albert Hall. Right. The funny thing is they had a handshake like that when they played their first match. It's just that it was Ogie Aliasin winning 6-2, 6-1. And I remember Sinner doing exactly then. It just tapped him on the chest as if to say, good match, well done. And this time it was more like, bad luck, I know how you feel sort of thing. But oh my word. I mean, maybe this was an outlier in how bad things are for Felix. I know he's not playing like that all the time. But when you look at his 2022 record, he won 60 matches that year, six in the world, wins the Davis Cup.

21:44He's a Grand Slam semi-finalist. He looks like he's going places way beyond where he is right there. And here he is now. He's in the 20s and 30s in the world. And he just isn't a factor at the sharp end of big tournaments anymore. I can't understand why he's fallen away like this. And I mean, I know injuries play a factor in careers, but still this is, it's rare that you see a player in his early 20s actually decline over a three-year spell like this.

22:21Matt Roberts: Yeah, it was awkward. Yeah, it was really, really uncomfortable, actually. so Cinerat Man is a semi-final we have two more men's quarterfinals to come later on today which will decide the other semi-final we have Carlos Alcarazza against Andrei Rublev and we have Ben Shelton against Alexander Zverev Shelton kind of backing up Canada incredibly well even if it ends here I still think this is an incredibly good run from him And this is an interesting one because, you know, Zverev thinks of himself as the guy outside of Alcoraz and Sinner, doesn't he? He very much thinks of himself as best of the rest.

23:10Matt Roberts: And Shelton is trying to muscle in there maybe right at this moment actually in real terms is best of the rest. This potentially, with Jack Draper on the injury sidelines for another few more days until the US Open, and OK, Novak Djokovic, but Novak Djokovic doesn't really play outside of the slams. Is this a bit of a point to prove about best of the rest matchup, David? I think it is really interesting because it's Shelton, and I think he's carrying himself a little bit differently to how everybody else is in this sequence of tournaments. I think a lot of players, I saw it against Khachanov the other night, he broke Sverev back to level up at 5-all, then he got broken to lose the set 7-5, loses three games in a row, and suddenly, I mean, I don't know whether it was, it didn't look like injury to me for Khachanov when he retired, it looked like a guy who's just hit the wall a bit, is tired, it keeps raining he did really well in Canada and all these matches got to the final and looked like he'd had enough

24:13Catherine Whitaker: he said he felt something in his back but it sounded like kind of a precaution yeah Shelton is not carrying himself like that now I realise Shelton may not have the thing in the back great but he's carrying himself like I remember Andy Roddick carried himself in 2003 which is I'm going to win all these matches I'm just going to try and win them all I'm not going to try and conserve anything. I'm not, I'm just, he said on his show the other day, I'm going to ride the confidence. You know, everybody's complaining about how many tournaments there are. And it is a real problem still, I think. I think this is too much length of tournament in this period, all congested.

24:56But, you know, he won 20 out of 21 matches that summer. The only bloke to beat him all summer was Tim Henman, incredibly. terribly um but here's Shelton kind of playing better as he's going along even if he might be fatigued and he's right in this confidence of just winning loads and loads of matches I think he's getting a real buzz from it I think he's getting a buzz from the from the Cincinnati crowd and I agree with you particularly about Zverev he's never beaten him it's 3-0 that record but they played each other last year very close 3-6-7-6-7-5 for Zverev I think I think Shelton is desperate to get a win over Zverev.

25:37And at the same time, I think Zverev has found something these last couple of weeks. He now looks like he did at the start of the year. And he's got what I talked about a week ago. Definitely in his mind, he's trying to make himself do things on big points and go to the net and become difficult to pass. He still has the odd shocker of a game where he loses his rhythm and suddenly you realise he's playing terribly defensive tennis and he's like he has to remind himself. But I think this now is a huge match for these two. Going into the US Open, if Shelton was to get this win, he no longer feels just like a guy who might have a good quarterfinal run.

26:19And he feels like he would go in thinking of himself a little bit like when Roddick beat Federer in 03 Canada after Federer had won Wimbledon. You could sense that that was just such a massive deal. He beat him 7-6 in the third, did Roddick. And he carried himself a bit differently after that. And then when he won the US Open. Look, obviously, Shelton's got other people ahead in Sinner and Alcraz that are far more established than Federer was at that stage ahead of him. And he's also, I don't know whether he's as good as Roddick, you know, but there's something there. There's something about the way he's carrying himself that makes you feel he can produce more than his talent alone, just the shots.

27:01He can inject something that hurts the opposition and he gets this crowd going. And yeah, him and Zverev's a good one. Zverev, obviously with that head-to-head over Shelton and does traditionally like playing lefties, doesn't he?

27:17Catherine Whitaker: He's got a very good record. He's very over against lefties. He grew up, obviously, playing a lefty in his brother. And his backhand is absolutely world-class. And that's generally the sort of angle of attack that a lefty brings. But I don't know. I think it would be... I agree with David. It would be big for Shelton in terms of keeping riding this confidence and going into the US Open in the best kind of possible place. and yes it would kind of mark him out as you know maybe right now the best of the rest I think I think for it to truly like move the needle going into the US Open or be really like meaningful for how I see that tournament one of these guys needs a meaningful win over Sinner or Alcraz like as David said those two are just so far above everyone else right now especially at the majors that you know even if Shelton's really convincing against Verev and wins it it doesn't massively change the picture for me because he okay then maybe have a shot at doing against Alcaraz in the semis potentially like that then I think we're talking about a guy going into US Open in a totally different place to where he's been before as long as as long as those two remain ahead I don't know how much you can you can take from wins over other players on tour it all helps a bit but I don't know I just think Sinner and Alcaraz is just at such a different level to these guys we've seen it with Djokovic right we've seen him beat up the rest of the tour and then try and play Sinner and Alcaraz particularly Sinner this year and he can't can't do the things that he does against them and I think I think that that would be the same for Shelton

29:07Matt Roberts: What about Carlos Alcraz? I'm finding it quite hard to tell where he's at OK, he took this scenic route against Demir Jumher in the opening round He's since then had two very convincing straight sets, victories Hamad Majenovic 4-4, Majenovic was really struggling physically in that match I mean, to be honest, Alcraz was struggling a bit physically in that match The conditions were absolutely brutal and then he's taking care of Luke Annardi as well but I just, I mean, that's man against boy, really. He got grouchy over some water bottles.

29:48Catherine Whitaker: It was our man Greg Allensworth again. Of course it was in the chair. It was to do with the fact that he had, I think he's using his Evian water bottles and Evian isn't an official sponsor or something so he needs to cover up the labels and he was like

30:04Matt Roberts: that is irritating and he was like no I'm not going to do that well he was expected to go and get some sort of masking tape mid match

30:14Catherine Whitaker: I'm not entirely sure whether Greg was asking him to do that or pointing out that he needs to do it in his matches going forward or something I'm honestly not sure it was a very odd exchange but Alcraz really really held his ground

30:30Matt Roberts: he did yeah he did He did, yeah, in a very sort of charming way. He's got Rublev next, which, I mean, even Rublev, I don't feel like that's the sort of test necessarily where we'll learn that much. I feel like you just need... Give me Shelton Alcaraz now, and let's figure out where these guys are both really at. It was that match at Wimbledon, though, that was the one that kind of ignited Al Kraz at Wimbledon, I thought. The riblet match. Yeah, even in that match, he was sort of not quite there. I mean, he was playing well but not winning the big points and then suddenly he was and then he wins the match and then he looks like a different proposition altogether.

31:21And I think it might be quite a good one for him. Like, he... Probably one of the best impersonations of Sinner, in a way, is Rubblev. He's nowhere near as good. But it's that kind of relentlessness that he's got to try to make sure he's on for and get everything in place. Even in the Nardi match, he managed to go 4-2 behind in the second set. You know, reel off four games in a row and win it. but um but you know it's still stuff that he he will want to be trying to smooth out of his his runs at these these tournament but it's not really surprising i mean that is who he is i think fundamentally anyway but this is his first tournament since wimbledon you know this looking back i was mentioning that roddick run of course wimbledon was a week earlier back then and there were other tournaments that were were crammed in everything just felt a bit more spaced out you've got more time so for him to have had this proper break which which he clearly needs this is about getting the wrist the rust out of the system i think as much as anything

32:32Matt Roberts: okay um everyone's pick from this point onwards in the men's oh sinner

32:41pretty difficult not to to pick sinner i think you're picking sinner to be out crowds in the final

32:48Catherine Whitaker: probably I'm not convinced Alcaraz gets there but probably Sinner over Alcaraz I actually think I actually think Zverev would be dangerous for Alcaraz in the in the semis okay

33:06Matt Roberts: I mean it's just it's so boring doing men's predictions at the moment isn't it like oh it's a hard court is it Yannick Sinner right great next Today's show is brought to you by Vanguard. To all the financial advisors listening, let's talk bonds for a minute. Capturing value in fixed income isn't easy. Bond markets are massive, murky, and let's be real, lots of firms throw a couple of flashy funds your way and call it a day, but not Vanguard. Vanguard bonds are institutional quality. Institutional quality isn't a tagline. It's a commitment to your clients. It means top grade products across the board.

33:47Vanguard's been in the game a long time and their scale gives them a serious edge. They're able to invest across all kinds of sectors, maturities and geographies, which means they can spot and act on opportunities that others might miss. So if you're looking to give your clients consistent results year in and year out, go see the record for yourself at vanguard.com forward slash audio. That's vanguard.com forward slash audio. All investing is subject to risk. Vanguard Marketing Corporation Distributor.

34:40drive the growth of golf worldwide. All this, and there's more to come. Accenture, the official business and technology consulting partner of the R &A. Learn more at Accenture.com slash R &A. As a small business owner, you're the CEO, the marketing team, and the customer service rep all at once. I was recently talking to a shop owner who told me their worst nightmare isn't a slow day, it's the vanishing act. It's that moment you're inches away from a deadline and the Wi-Fi just disappears. We've all felt that pit in our stomach when the connection flares up right when it matters most. Your business is only as strong as your connection.

35:20AT &T Business is the reliable provider built for that exact brand of hustle, so you can stay focused on the work that builds your legacy. Powered by AT &T Business. Built to work. Get AT &T Business at business.att.com.

35:39Matt Roberts: Right, on to part two and the women's event in Cincinnati where it's all a bit simpler. We are at the quarterfinal stage. We have quarterfinals of Irina Sabalenka against Elena Rabakina, Igor Shontek against Anna Kalinskaya, Vavara Gruchever against Veronica Kudomitova and Jasmine Paolini against Coco Gough. Now, aside from Anna Kalinskaya's dog, which obviously goes without saying has been the star of the show in Cincinnati this week what for you Matt on the women's side over the past three days has jumped out the most?

36:18Catherine Whitaker: It's a good question because I think what we've actually got there is other than the Gracheva-Kudomatova quarterfinal which is quite left field we've actually got a couple of really big name matchups in terms of Sabalenka Rabacchino and Paolini Goff. So I think that's the sort of overarching story, how most of the top names have stayed in and set up these big clashes. And obviously Igor Fiontek's still there. I think maybe the sort of result that jumped out to me most was Jessica Pagula losing to Magda Lynette. I can't work out Jessica Pagula this year. She's having a very sort of un-Jessica Pagula-like year in that she seems to be really inconsistent.

37:05Catherine Whitaker: You know, there have been moments, she's won three titles. She's won Austin, she's won Charleston, she's won Bad Homburg. And of course, she beat Ygris Viontek in that Bad Homburg final, who then went on to win Wimbledon. You know, it was a good level. She played well. And yet, she's also just taken some bizarre losses. You know, you think of the Boisson one at the French Open. even all the way back in Australia she lost to Olga Danilovic which I remember being a bit surprised by and she lost to Sevastova in Canada from 6-3-2 love up and here she's lost to Magda Lynette and again it was a bit of a strange match it was one of those ones that was interrupted she had the momentum having won the second set Pagula then had to come back the next day and she loses the third set to Lynette but for someone who last year did this, you know, kind of David's talking about Andy Roddick there, you know, Jessica Bergoula, okay, she didn't have ultimately the same success, but she did the three finals.

38:07Catherine Whitaker: You know, she did Canada, Cincinnati, US Open last year. An incredible feat. I know Canada was a little bit of a weaker feel because of the Olympics, but still, like, it was amazing the way she just put this run together, whereas this time, she's gone two wins, two losses across Canada and Cincinnati and the form has really not been there. And yeah, I'm just sort of having to reframe a little bit how I think of Jessica Bagula because I so often just assume that she's going to make her seeding and be there in the latter stages of these big tournaments, quarterfinals semis. Whereas now it seems like she might be playing brilliantly and she could beat still the best players in the world as we saw igas viontech on you know on the grass of bad homburg or she's just more susceptible now to kind of bombing out early and and putting in a bad performance and that's not a place we've been in quite so much with jessica pergula over the last last few years um i know she spoke on i think caroline garcia's podcast about she's really got la olympics as a goal and maybe like end goal of her career I just sort of think that she might already be having those sorts of thoughts about how much longer she wants to play for and sort of just I suppose where she is right now as a tennis player and I think once those thoughts enter your head it maybe can just interrupt the sort of brilliant rhythm that I think she was in for for a number of years it It feels like she's been slightly thrown off that this year.

39:47Catherine Whitaker: And I still see her as, you know, she's, what is she? I think she's in the top eight in the race. I think she could well reach the WTA finals. She's still very much in that conversation. She could well go and reach the quarterfinals semis of the US Open. But I've also got her now on upset watch in a way that I think, you know, She has been upset in the past, but generally she was consistent and reliable. I didn't have her on upset watch, but the shift now is that to me. I think this match against Lynette typified that. If you think of her recent losses, it was in keeping with that kind of player that I think before I'd have really had her as favourite against, whereas now she is a bit more susceptible in these bigger tournaments to early losses.

40:38Matt Roberts: yeah I had the same reaction or sort of dot joining when I saw the clips or that one clip in particular from her speaking on the on Caroline Garcia's podcast about you know she laughed at the prospect of playing well into her 30s and said you know oh no that's not going to be me um yeah I've got LA 2028 as a goal in my mind and look I totally understand that the needing needing to have a a fixed end point even if it doesn't actually turn out to be you know just sort of indefinite relentless hamster wheel of of tennis um sort of putting putting a break on that makes sense to me but also I I don't know it's not I think tennis is so demanding that if you're anything other than totally absorbed and wrapped up in it all and and all consumed by it then you're you're giving away a fraction of a percentage point which you which you can't afford to do in a sport of such fine margins and I do just wonder if those thoughts are kicking around in her head whether that does take the tiniest bit of edge off um but the tiniest bit tiniest bit is enough david yeah could could well be um and yeah i i think probably knowing that she doesn't want to play into her 30s or deep into them is probably way healthier and it's probably for her life you know she's probably going to end up living a better life as a result of that because so many players seem to retire and then suddenly like oh I've stopped I've stopped playing you know because that wasn't necessarily the plan um or they they didn't they haven't really got a plan after tennis and but at the same time You know, yeah, I think you have to be so much, it seems, in the moment in tennis or any sport.

42:45You have to be in the present all the time just thinking about those, the minutiae of what's involved in an all-consuming sport. And I'm certainly not saying she's doing it wrong if this is indeed a fact. But I could imagine it. And, you know, I think sometimes when you speak to her, she's hugely competitive and very ambitious. I mean, this is a player who has, I think, definitely exceeded my expectations of what she would do several years ago. I think she's probably exceeded some of her own, really, if you'd have gone back that far. You know, she really elevated herself. But she's also made it clear she's going to give it absolutely everything she's got.

43:30but she's not going to just be a mess if she doesn't win a Grand Slam. You know, she's as determined as everybody else, but she's also going to be OK if she doesn't. And, yeah, it probably leads to a slightly shorter career. And, yeah, I am fascinated to see whether that is taking an edge off whether we might have seen the best of her at the Grand Slam level, but maybe not. I know it's not a very satisfying answer, but I don't think it's categoric either way, really, with someone like her. She's an interesting one.

44:13Matt Roberts: It's always awkward, isn't it, these case studies, and there are so many of them that it kind of exposed the fact that in tennis, like success or continued success relentless success is so often in at odds or in competition with or in incompatible with like a healthy happy life um and we're here as a tennis podcast like framing everything in terms of like success and assuming that you know you want to achieve as much as you can on the tennis court and wanting that for people and sometimes it feels like rooting for bad mental health um because so often that is it feels like that is the trade-off um which is yeah which is a it's a it's a weird thing but here we are what what is um again aside from anna kallensky's dog because what a dog um and and boy are we being fed with content about that dog over the course of this week.

45:18Matt Roberts: What's jumped out to you, David, over the last few days? Well, again, it is the jockeying for position, really. Because you've got Irina Sabalenka back into the mix of this tournament now, having decided to not go to Canada, and seeing her just edge Emma Raducanu in that very tight match, and then just you can start to see the rust coming out of her game now as well. She's getting those competitive edges back. And yet you've still got Svantec and you've still got Goff, who's been trying to do the same. And we were talking about how she'd won the doubles last week. And maybe that's her finding something.

45:56I love watching this process. Everybody's sort of revving their engines a little bit at the moment and just trying to figure out, well, how ready to go am I? How hard can I push the accelerator at this point? And they don't want to go too early. But, yeah, I think we could be in for a really good last few days at this tournament. And having Sabalenka-Rabakina, I mean, that's always a match-up that I savour the prospect of. You know, and I'm curious to see which way it goes this time.

46:28Matt Roberts: They played in the grass, didn't they? And Rabakina had all of those match points. Yeah. And, yeah. Yeah. David, I was at dinner with Matt earlier this week and our mate Dave and Billie Jean, lovely evening. And Dave was asking for some, you know, he's a religious listener to the tennis podcast. People wanted some off the record tennis takes, asked who we're picking for the US Open. And I thought, you know, I know Matt's US Open mind here. I know what he's going to do. He picked Coco Gauff. Wow, that's interesting. Are you OK with me exposing that, Matt? Was that just a dinner take?

47:13Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I don't think it's that wild, is it, to pick Coco Gauff to win the US Open, given she's won it and she's won a slam this year.

47:19Matt Roberts: I think I was surprised, given that the last time we had a deep Coco Gauff discussion on this podcast, the take was... Needs form. She needs form. She needs a really good Cincinnati. And she might be on the way to that, That might be what we find ourselves talking about on Tuesday. But have we seen enough? Have you seen enough? I'm guessing you've seen enough to be convinced already that she has that form.

47:48Catherine Whitaker: I've seen enough in the... Look, she hit three double faults in her previous match. Like, she's already taken a massive leap in terms of, like, getting those back under control. And that was what was so jarring in Canada. you know there was the double faults it was then you know that that then just leaks into everything else in your game and yeah i think as i said she's never as low as you think she is koha goff because she can she can get it back and she can still fight through these matches when she's not playing that well and I suppose a lot of it is to do with Sabalenka because to me Sabalenka should be the pick you know I should look at the US Open and think Sabalenka's to win because she's been the most consistent player this year she's gonna go deep at the slam because she kind of always does as you expect her to be in those latter stages.

48:52Catherine Whitaker: But then I'm looking at match-ups, and I have to think that Coco Gauff will navigate her way in New York through to the latter stages as well. And if we get Sabalenka Gauff again at this stage, I'm picking Gauff now in that match-up. Like, given what we saw at the US Open a couple of years ago, given what we saw in Paris, there's no way now that I could go into that matchup and pick Sabalenka. Unless Sabalenka has literally played like the best tennis we've seen ever play and Goff is hitting 20 double faults and somehow winning I think it would take that sort of opposite end of the spectrum for me to pick Sabalenka to beat Goff now.

49:39Catherine Whitaker: I think Goff, the matchup, I think she's in her head. so I was just kind of thinking it through like that that again going on matchups if Iga Sviontek's playing well I still think that's a problem for Goff you know like the Sviontek matchup has been tougher for Goff in the past but I don't really know where Iga Sviontek's quite at really she's the one I haven't really got a sense of in this swing really to be honest I'm sort of still thinking about Wimbledon with Igor Svjantek. I haven't quite thought about where she is right now on the hard courts. I know I did see a bit against Castella. I felt like she was struggling a bit on serve.

50:24Catherine Whitaker: I think she mentioned on the Andy Roddick podcast, didn't she? She does struggle with these balls in this swing to control the serve. She has quite a low for a serve percentage and double faults. I'm not sure she's absolutely peak right now, but she would be a tough matchup for Goff. I don't know. I just have a little feeling that Goff might do it again. And part of it is the Sabalenka matchup, I suppose.

50:51Matt Roberts: Right. But, like, big picture, it's not an outrageous take at all. But I'm just thinking in the context of, like, the last time I heard your Coco Goff takes, I was a bit taken aback. In a fun way. In a very fun way.

51:04Catherine Whitaker: Obviously, Amanda Nismov is going to win the US Open, though.

51:07Matt Roberts: Yes. And Matt's going blonde. She's currently very disappointed with that take.

51:17Matt Roberts: Where should we go? I was going to say Shvantec is a Kalinskaya away from a meeting with either Elena Rabakina or Irina Savalenka, which is, you know, that's what I want to see. I mean, also want to see more of Anna Kalinskaya's dog. But if it's not going to be that, then Shvantec against, I mean, ideally Sabalenka, really. That's what we want to see to find out where Svantec is at, I think. Right, David? Yeah, and look, I still feel... I don't feel like Matt does about the Goff and Sabalenka match-up. I would still pick Sabalenka. I can't think she's going to... I mean, she's my pick for the US Open right now.

52:06I don't see how somebody who's that much the world number one ends the year with no Grand Slams. I know, of course, that can happen, but she's got to be so up for it. And I think she's learnt stuff from that French Open. And she has been, or the Australian Open. It's not like she hasn't. I know a lot's happened, but I back her, actually. I back her to figure all this out. I think the bigger problem is there are players like Rebecca and Svantec that's why this is all so fascinating there are players that can beat her who are there right there and I'm really looking forward to seeing her try to figure a way through all these and also to figure a way against the New York crowd in a couple of weeks time I love all of that

53:06Matt Roberts: I've had your picks for the US Open which is great who are your picks for Cincinnati? It should also be Sabalenka right David? It should also be Goff I'd still go Sabalenka and Sinner I just feel like they are at the moment the best two players in the world and I struggle not to go with that really at any time You know, even if circumstances are suggesting something else, who feels like the best players in the world to me at the moment? It's those two. She's in the better half of the draw, Goff, in Cincinnati, isn't she? She is. She's a heavy favourite to reach the final, at least.

53:49Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, look, I mean, she's lost twice to Paolini this year. I mean, both of those were on clay, and she's won their matches on hard courts in the past, but Paolini was in a good mood yesterday. I mean, it was a bit of a tough watch with Krejcikova. She had a foot injury and that really did seem to trouble her. But Paolini came up with one of my favourite little expressions after the Max describing the ice towel as an ice sausage. Really enjoyed that from Paolini. It was just fantastic. That's the Paolini I really just love seeing. She was beaming. She was really pleased with herself, I think, that she'd come up with ice sausage.

54:32Catherine Whitaker: But I probably would be back in golf. I think my pick, again, I might be contradicting myself here. I think my pick for Cincinnati would be Sabalenka. It's the pressure cooker of a Grand Slam final or semi-final and a New York crowd. in those circumstances, based on what I've seen so far from their careers, that's why I'd be backing Goff over Sabalenka. And a bit the match-up as well. But it's not like Sabalenka can't beat Coco Goff. Of course she can. She has multiple times. It's just the US Open, like if they were to meet there, it would be intense. and I just, right now, I would probably more expect unforced error Sabalenka to come out than I would best player in the world Sabalenka to come out.

55:28Catherine Whitaker: So that's why my prediction for the US Open might be a bit different to the prediction for Cincinnati. I think in Cincinnati, I probably would back Sabalenka. That's kind of where she's had the dominance over the rest of the tour, these kind of events. but as you said if she has to go through Rebecca and Svantec and Gough to win it like that's blooming difficult

55:55Matt Roberts: Anything else we want to pick out from what we've seen so far in in Cincinnati Anna Kaninskaya has gone a bit Alejandro Davidovich Fakina although I think she has a bit more of a point than Davidovich Fakina had you're not having it Matt

56:13Catherine Whitaker: No, she's got more of a point.

56:16Matt Roberts: It's the unfairness, right? It's the imbalance of the situation between her and Shvantec, her opponent.

56:24Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I mean, look, she's got a day off. So it's a bit tough to be unhappy about the 11 a.m. schedule when you've had a day off. I think what she should be complaining about is the fact that she was out there until 2.40 a.m. you know like that that should be the complaint you know because that's what's thrown off her rhythm and her her sleep schedule um so yes she's definitely got more of a point than alejandro niridovich vikina who had no point but either in english or spanish yeah um no i i do feel for players when there are scheduling you know they feel like they're being screwed over about the scheduling, but it's not the most egregious scheduling.

57:10Matt Roberts: It is wild, isn't it, how institutionalised players, the sport is about late finishes, that the 3am finish isn't what you're complaining about. That's just a given, except that. It's the fact that the rest of the schedule isn't making accommodations for the fact that matches are finishing at 3am. Like, it's pretty wild when you zoom out. yeah tennis be tennising David anything else jump out jump out to you Gracheva, Vovara Gracheva she's come through qualies yeah I was watching that match yesterday and that was that was really interesting to sort of a set all against Seidel, Seidel I'm not exactly sure of the pronunciation Seidel I think and then she just physically just gave way and then third set she couldn't play really anymore.

58:03I mean, she did well to play it at all. But Gracheva gave a great post-match interview on the court after that. Just, this is what I also like when you get an Atman breaking through, you know, and stuff like that. You just meet these players because you've, I've never heard Gracheva speak before, I don't think. And then suddenly she's on court giving this interview. She's full of beans because she's so excited. She's made this incredible run. And also, she's got a personality that very few people know about. And so, you know, you get to see it because she's won a big match. She's on a court. She's getting an on-court interview in a full crowd thinking, oh, I'm going to follow this player next because she seems really great.

58:49So, yeah. But then I'm always fascinated to see whether they're going to back it up because it's different, isn't it? The whole routine cadence of a tournament is different for these players. They're not used to this. This is not normally how their week goes. So now they've got a kind of... They may well have already peaked, and then the players they're playing against are just warming up. So, yeah, we've got... This Cincinnati line-up is just that right mix of established names who you expect to see at the sharp end of the US Open and a couple of players who just, oh, blimey, I didn't expect them to be there, who keep it a bit more interesting.

59:37Catherine Whitaker: Just the final thing that's jumped out to me is Rabakina, to be honest, winning from a set down in every single match that she's played. I mean, we saw her do that against Shastrzemska, didn't we, in Canada, and that was the first time she'd done that in a long time. And she's managed to keep doing it in Cincinnati. It's still not fully convincing to me. I do think the Madison Keys win was a bit wide by Keys at the end of that. She really didn't seem to be particularly well. I hope that she can recover quickly. But you kind of saw in the tie break what I felt like was the difference between Keys and Rebecca in that first set.

1:00:20Keys was, I'm going to use that word, clutch.

1:00:24Catherine Whitaker: And Rabatkinner wasn't and hasn't been for quite a while now. She played a dreadful tie-break, Rabatkinner. She comes back to win the match, as I said, partially aided by Keys fading in that third set. But in that crunch moment, Rabatkinner didn't really have it. And you feel like she's going to need it if she's going to beat Sabalenka, particularly with Sabalenka's incredible tie-break. record that we spoke about on Tuesday. So it sort of has been notable that Rebecca has started to win from a set down again. And she's had a little bit more resilience in these matches. But it feels a little bit on edge.

1:01:07Matt Roberts: And, you know, like, I don't know.

1:01:09Catherine Whitaker: I just don't know how sustainable it is.

1:01:11Matt Roberts: I'm still not back here in a tie break. I feel quite a long way from that. And you probably see tie breaks coming in the San Blanco match. We will see. We will see. That's it for part two. We'll be back in part three with just a couple of other bits and bobs. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the 14500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows, and AI connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most.

1:02:01Matt Roberts: Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com. Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie. When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well. Roof repair? Done well. Kitchen sink install? Done well. Deck upgrades? Done well. Electrical upgrade? Done well. Angie's been connecting homeowners with skilled pros for nearly 30 years, so we know the difference between done and done well. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find a pro for your project at Angie.com.

1:02:43Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part three of the tennis podcast, where I'm just going to update you in a moment on on our schedule over the next few days. But first, the US Open wildcards have been announced, mostly sort of the names you'd expect, young American hopefuls, that kind of thing. But two names do jump out. One of those is 45-year-old Venus Williams. And one of those is apparently not retired Caroline Garcia.

1:03:19Matt Roberts: Making the most of it. Making the blooming most of it. I mean, come on. Bianca Andreescu hasn't got a wild card, but Caroline Garcia has.

1:03:33Catherine Whitaker: what are we doing what are we doing

1:03:35Matt Roberts: it's the nonsense

1:03:35Catherine Whitaker: French reciprocal thing she's got that

1:03:40Matt Roberts: it's and that's how France are using their reciprocal wildcard is it should they not be trying to invest in that's embarrassing a young player to give them a chance yeah that's embarrassing and Karen Garcia is taking a wildcard from a from a young French player she's had a beautiful ceremony on Châtrier. It's not on.

1:04:09I can't argue.

1:04:10Matt Roberts: If we're having wild cards, then Venus can have one. Yeah. Cool, that's fun. There's not a person who's coming to watch a Venus Williams match who's not going to be excited about the fact that they're getting to watch Venus Williams. She showed the other day that she can still play. You know, it's unbelievable what she's doing. But, yeah, I do. That reciprocal thing, in any case, is something I've never liked. It's another machination of wildcards that exposes and makes you think about actually what wildcards are and how anti-democratic and stupid they are. Well, you think just, I mean, also, women's tennis in France is, they haven't got that many winners, you know, they haven't got that many young players, but on the men's side, they've got a lot more coming through.

1:05:11And you've got a chance, surely, to give somebody, maybe there isn't, maybe there aren't any players that they believe in or something. I don't know. Oh, come on.

1:05:23Matt Roberts: Well, what message is that sending? If that's the message that they're sending, there's nobody we believe in enough. Well, I mean, you know, maybe their view is earn your right to be considered. We're not just going to hand one out to... Well, Caroline Garcia hasn't. Well, she's had a good career, though, right? She's had a good career, whereas if there are young players who aren't putting it in, they might take that view. But then I just think, hand it back.

1:05:51Matt Roberts: yeah the whole the whole thing is embarrassing

1:05:58Matt Roberts: pumped to see venus williams though if we're going to do wild cards then i am excited to see venus williams but i do think as much as mboko was a setback for my down with wild cards movement i think this announcement was was good for my move you're back on track Yeah, Caroline Garcia has got me back on track. Reciprocal wildcards. What a load of tosh.

1:06:27Matt Roberts: Right. Our schedule. It will be a surprise to nobody that we've got quite a lot of podcasts coming up, folks. So the Cincinnati finals are both on Monday. That means that we will have our Cincinnati rap show on Tuesday. as always it's a combined 1000 event so that rap show will be live by this point all three of us will be in New York so we will be live from New York on Tuesday at 4pm local time is the plan 4pm eastern time that's what 1pm on the west coast I think so that'll be our next sort of regular show after this we do have a show for you on Monday we recorded it yesterday did Matt and I very special show speaking to a friend and colleague of ours and a brilliant writer Giri Nathan who has a book coming out next week called Changeover it's a new book about Yannick Sinner and Carlos Alcaraz and their young rivalry and Matt and I have had the chance to read it and it's brilliant and unsurprisingly Giri was fascinating talking about it and it was a pleasure to get to do that show and it'll be going out on Monday to tide you over until our next regular show on Tuesday so you'll be listening to that on Monday while we're all flying to New York then we'll have our Cincinnati review show on Tuesday on Wednesday we will be doing a special show to review the mixed doubles an official Grand Slam tournament then on Thursday we don't have a podcast but we do have a live show at the Gramercy Theatre and we're very very excited about it and then on Friday our daily US Open coverage kicks off with a draw and media day show and from that point in folks it is 17 daily podcasts so So buckle up.

1:08:37Matt Roberts: It's going to be fun. Bring it on. Yeah, it's going to be so much fun. And we hope you'll join us for all of that fun. Yeah, Monday show will be cool. Tuesday we'll be in New York talking about everything that's happened over the next few days in Cincinnati. We'll have our mascots for all of it. Hello to Phoebe. Hello to Maisie. And hello to Roger. Any Roger pictures?

1:09:03Catherine Whitaker: Not yet.

1:09:05Matt Roberts: Well, not since the last ones. He's too big to get in the frame now. Yeah, we need him next to household objects for scale from this point onwards, I think. Hello to our top folks and executive producers Greg, Chris and Jeff. Let's have some shout outs, Matt.

1:09:28Catherine Whitaker: We have Randy Curtis from Orlando, Florida.

1:09:34Matt Roberts: Hello, Randy.

1:09:36Catherine Whitaker: Randy says...

1:09:37Matt Roberts: That's a name that doesn't exist in the UK.

1:09:40Catherine Whitaker: Randy says, I'm not Big Randy, but I am a long-time listener who enjoys your tennis insight and chemistry. I hope to meet you in person one day, maybe at the US Open, since that's the major I attend on a regular basis.

1:09:54Matt Roberts: Oh, come and say hi, Randy.

1:09:57Catherine Whitaker: Probably should get some Big Randy backstory. Yeah, lovely Big Randy shout-out from Randy. Yes, Big Randy being the co-host of the No Laying Up golf podcast that we all love and who is a friend of ours and listens to the tennis podcast on the regular. So hello, Big Randy. Hello, this Randy.

1:10:18Matt Roberts: Yes. Hello, Randy's everywhere. But there aren't any in the UK. They're all in America. If there is one, do write in. Yeah. There aren't any. uh there must be tennis randy's american ones uh there's randy walker who is a communications manager from the usta in years gone by and i get emails from randy walker he's a lovely fella he's very nice and he and he has lots of lots of fingers in lots of tennis pies and he does lots of creative stuff. Great. Very nice fella. Great stuff. That is great work, David. Thank you, Randy.

1:11:08Catherine Whitaker: We've also got Matt Schwartz. Right, Matt.

1:11:13Matt Roberts: Hello, Matt.

1:11:14Catherine Whitaker: Matt is from Ardsley, New York, now residing in Scotch Plains, New Jersey. Of course. And like Jeff Schwartz, the former agent of Pete Sampras.

1:11:30Matt Roberts: Look at him go.

1:11:31Catherine Whitaker: And...

1:11:32Matt Roberts: Look at him go.

1:11:34Catherine Whitaker: Matt's got a little quiz for us. There's a tennis Schwartz who played on the WTA in the late 90s and made a Roland Garros quarterfinal. Can anyone guess? By anyone, he means David.

1:11:49Matt Roberts: I'm going to guess Laura.

1:11:55Catherine Whitaker: I can't answer because I've looked this up I didn't know the answer I was going to say I nearly said Brenda Schwartz McCarthy but that's Schultz McCarthy I think It's Barbara Oh Barbara Schwartz Yes of course but my 90s brain has failed me Barbara Schwartz sorry Barbara good little quiz there from Matt yeah Barbara Schwartz loved that yeah

1:12:28Matt Roberts: really want to encourage shout outs with a accompanied quiz question into that thank you Matt obviously you have a great name Matt we like Matt's here

1:12:40Catherine Whitaker: cheers Matt and finally we have Matthew Moffat from Paris Texas we know we love Matthew

1:12:50Matt Roberts: we know and love Matthew he's part of the team sure is not only a friend of the tennis podcast but a friend of Matt Roberts and a David's diamond maybe an honorary David's diamond absolutely yeah he can make the grade him and Lynn, both David's diamonds via Matt what does Matthew say about himself or should we have you say nice things about Matthew Matt?

1:13:21Catherine Whitaker: Matthew says that we can wing it. How did you get to know Matthew again? Just give us a little bit of backstory there Matt. So Matthew took part in our year-long predictions in I think he signed up in 2023 with Lynn and I organised those and I had a WhatsApp group with them and yeah they just became great friends I became great friends with them They then did it again in 2024. And, you know, the group's still going. We're constantly talking about tennis. And, yeah, Matthew and Lynn helped us out during Roland Garros this year. They were part of our team for the sort of end of night uploading process.

1:14:06Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, they streamlined our end of days at Grand Slams, which is, like, one of the most useful jobs imaginable. So, yeah. we love Matthew we love Lynn and yeah big shout out for Matthew

1:14:21Matt Roberts: yeah big shout out for Matthew thank you Matthew thank you Matthew thank you Matt thank you Randy Randy come on Catherine Matthew Matt Randy I had I had Matthew Matthew Matthew Matthew Matt Randy thank you ever so much thank you for being friends of the tennis podcast we are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. We're back on Monday with that special show with Geary Nathan. It's worth a listen. It's brilliant. And his book is worth a read. And we're back on Tuesday with our Cincinnati rap show live from New York, 9pm UK time, 4pm local time on the East Coast. We can't wait. We really can't wait.

1:15:07Matt Roberts: We are ready to get going with the lead-in to this final Grand Slam of the 2025 tennis season. Thank you for listening. We'll speak to you next week.

1:15:22As a small business owner, you're the CEO, the marketing team, and the customer service rep all at once. I was recently talking to a shop owner who told me their worst nightmare isn't a slow day, it's the vanishing act. It's that moment you're inches away from a deadline and the Wi-Fi just disappears. We've all felt that pit in our stomach when the connection flares up right when it matters most. Your business is only as strong as your connection. AT &T Business is the reliable provider built for that exact brand of hustle, so you can stay focused on the work that builds your legacy. Powered by AT &T Business.

1:15:57Built to work. Get AT &T Business at business.att.com.

1:16:02Catherine Whitaker: Hi, I'm Jack Ravici, Kramer, host of The Best One Yet. At T-Boy, we're always talking about small decisions that can have an outsized impact. One of the simplest is staying hydrated. Whether I'm traveling, getting a workout in, or heading into a busy day, I keep Liquid IV on hand. It's clinically demonstrated to hydrate faster than water alone and contains three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink, plus eight vitamins and nutrients. It's an easy addition to your daily routine and helps support hydration when you need it most. Shop now at liquidiv.com. Liquid IV hydration that goes wherever life takes you.