Cincinnati - Will beaten Djokovic contend in New York?

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1:18Matt Roberts: Hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast. It is Monday morning. We are now less than two weeks out from the US Open and tennis is tennising over in an incredibly hot and humid looking Cincinnati. We have had Novak Djokovic drama, of course. We have had shoe nanigans and we've had what David is claiming is the worst drop shot he has ever seen. Don't give the game away, David. That's a little teaser for people to stay tuned for later in the show. But you seem thrilled to report that you'd seen it on the group chat.

1:53David Law: Yeah, and it's sort of upgraded itself from the worst drop shot of the year to the worst one I've ever seen in the time it's taken for me to report it and now it be announced here. But do you know what? I'm quite happy to go with that.

2:06Matt Roberts: Did you say year? Yeah, I did. Have I inflated?

2:10David Law: Well, now that I've slept on it and you've mentioned it, I can't think of another one that's been worse than that one. So I'm quite happy to detail it.

2:20Matt Roberts: Matt Roberts, how are you doing? You've seen rain in the UK weather forecast and you're planning an exciting week.

2:27Catherine Whitaker: Oh, I can't wait. I'm going to stand out in it Shawshank Redemption style and let it fall on me. And I cannot wait. I'm counting down the days until the end of this week. I just don't believe it.

2:42Matt Roberts: Like, honestly, I will believe it when I see it.

2:45Catherine Whitaker: That is a fair position, I think, over the last few weeks to not believe that rain is coming. but it's been dangled in front of me as hope.

2:53Matt Roberts: Is the UK capable of rain anymore? What a time to be alive, folks. OK, let's start with the ATP side of things in Cincinnati and, of course, with Novak Djokovic and his main character energy despite being out of the tournament. He lost in three dramatic sets to Thiago Augustin-Tarrante. What a summer he's having. 2-6, 6-4, 6-4. And he had a terrible time, did Novak Djokovic, in the albeit very challenging conditions in Cincinnati. He had a medical timeout following an incredibly long, I think, 18-minute service hold. A towel was, a sort of modesty towel, was held up for Novak Djokovic to puke.

3:40Matt Roberts: That's where we are in tennis now, that we've devised privacy protocols for on-court puking. Look, no shade here. Very, very, very grateful for it. But it was a tough Novak Djokovic scene. I mean, the commentators were speculating about retirement at that point. He struggled on, but he was clearly having a terrible time. He said after the match, it was not an enjoyable match for me. He said, the way I felt, it was not the first time and not the last time he'll feel that way. And he said that he has a health condition that's been bothering him for the last couple of years and it causes a lot of issues, especially when it's humid and hot.

4:23Matt Roberts: Now, that's the extent of what we know about this health condition. We can speculate beyond our medical expertise. I am pretty intrigued, to be honest, but I also know it's a delicate thing and he's only giving us that much information for a reason and I don't want to pry beyond what's cool. But I am pretty intrigued about what's going on here with Novak Djokovic. He was, well, I was going to say Matt, not himself, but maybe we don't quite know what Novak Djokovic's true self is at the moment. He's played 20 tennis matches in 2026, I think, which is a massive drop off from previous years. I personally feel like I don't quite know what his baseline is.

5:17Matt Roberts: The situation here was obviously aggravated by the conditions. But yeah, it was a lot to take in from a Novak Djokovic perspective, especially with those post-match comments.

5:29Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, and it all happened quite suddenly because he actually started the match really well and I'd seen his interview before the tournament where he talked about why he was playing Cincinnati and that was because he was feeling good coming out of Wimbledon and his body had held up and sure enough, he's 6-2 up on Turante a guy who's had some really good results this year and the commentators were waxing lyrical about the fact that he's still capable of going a month without any tennis and just quite handily beating someone who's been playing really well on the ATP tour. And he was making it all look pretty comfortable, very sharp.

6:08Catherine Whitaker: And then, as you say, at the start of that second set, he had that incredibly long service game. And at that moment, from then on, the rest of the match was just a huge struggle for him. and he seemed to spend most of the rest of the match either puking or trying not to puke or sweating, sighing. He sat down on the court at one point. He was sort of giving up on points because he had no energy left. It was a real, real struggle for him out there. And honestly, I thought he was either going to retire or do a classic Novak Djokovic thing and still come through and win somehow, some way. And actually it was secret option number three and he was just going to keep going to the end and end up losing it.

6:54Catherine Whitaker: And it did remind me a little bit of the Dino Prismic match he played in Rome earlier this year where, you know, just clearly struggling physically. This did seem to be more heat related, as you say, and particularly with those comments post-match. We've certainly seen him have issues and struggles in these sorts of conditions and look like he's having a terrible time in the past. So it wasn't a shock to me. But the context of it, given he seemed to bound into Cincinnati quite buoyant and I'm sure is eyeing up the US Open, given the picture of men's tennis right now. Those circumstances made it a little bit shocking and certainly called into question how ready he's going to be for any potential heat in New York as he pushes 40.

7:47Catherine Whitaker: And obviously he'll be hoping to play night sessions to avoid the heat of the day. And he'll be hoping to acclimatise and spend more time in the country and probably get used to it. This was his first match in many weeks. But, yeah, it's a real test for him. I think these conditions now and, you know, he's going to need some luck in New York, I think, not to be confronted with them again.

8:13Matt Roberts: Yeah, that's the thing, isn't it, David? Like these sorts of conditions are everywhere now. They're even at Wimbledon and the French Open. OK, I think Cincinnati so far this tournament has been extreme, but not a totally different kettle of fish than what we typically get in New York. and he's 39 years of age. That's enough of a hurdle in itself. As incredible as he is, can he afford to have any other challenges on his plate besides the momentous challenge of being nearly 40?

8:49David Law: Well, we have seen this year, pretty much for the first time in as long as I can remember, him losing earlier in a Grand Slam against Fonseca when he was two sets up. You know, that hasn't really happened before. There was the one where he lost to Popperin, but he just had the Olympics, you know, so I kind of discount that. I do feel like Cincinnati is a place that you can bound in as he did after having a lovely month off. I can only imagine how delightful his life has been in that month and then be presented with these conditions. and there's no real preparing for them, unless you spend your whole time in them, I think, to get used to it.

9:31David Law: We'll talk about Ben Shelton a little bit later. These are different conditions to what you get elsewhere. That having been said, we've had a couple of good years in New York, relatively speaking, where it hasn't been like this. But my word, can it be? We were speaking to somebody from the US Open a couple of days ago who said it was a bit like that there at the moment. And if it gets like that again, we had, I think, the one three or four years ago where it was just horrendous every day in New York. So miserable, those conditions. It's impossible to really explain it to somebody who's not there and experiencing it.

10:09David Law: So I totally understand how he feels, even without a specific condition that he's alluded to. and the only thing is he's now experienced probably about as bad as it can get the only thing is he may well have to do it he's got to do it over best of five sets in New York but perhaps he just needed this bit of exposure to give himself a chance but yeah it's um it's a it's it's a problem just coming in cold into something like this especially when you're 39

10:44Matt Roberts: previously we've been talking about Novak Djokovic at slams in terms of you know okay he needs the draw to fall for him he could do with you know in Paris it was will he come out in the Yannick Sinner half wasn't it do you do you not feel like like that anymore like even if the draw falls for him you don't back him to to get to the semi-final to face yannick sinner or carlos alcaraz say or alexander zverev at this point no matt's making a i think i still do that jockovich face i don't

11:20David Law: feel like he's more vulnerable personally um than he was i still feel like we know his top level beats everybody other than those two and sometimes those two, which is an incredible thing to say when the guy's 39. But he doesn't always play at that level.

11:38Matt Roberts: But if you can only produce your top level for one set or two sets, it's sort of irrelevant at a Grand Slam, isn't it?

11:46Catherine Whitaker: He's having trouble sustaining it through matches, isn't he? Even at Wimbledon where he got to the semis and I would say it was a good tournament for him. He was struggling to win in straight sets. He had the very easy win over Tsitsipas, but every other one was a real struggle for him. And it felt like maybe it did end up slightly costing him by the end. So that's a concern for me. I think, you know, if he's really going to have a shot, he needs to be, I think, winning a bit more efficiently than he has been at slams recently. The thing is, though, like, we still don't know what the men's US Open is going to look like.

12:23Catherine Whitaker: And if Sinner and Alcaraz are not there, if one of them is not there, if both of them are there but vulnerable, Novak Djokovic is still pretty much at the top of the list of the next people I'm looking at. I would say Zverev is up there as well, given what he did at Roland Garros. Shelton, Auger Ali, Asim, you know, like they'd be kind of in there as well. But I think I put Djokovic above them right now. Just because of his Grand Slam experience and know-how. And he's reached the final in a semi this year. Like, he can still figure these things out. But this one just put a slight dampener. Slight dampener.

13:09Catherine Whitaker: Because I did think he could use Cincinnati to get a couple of matches under his belt and really head into the US Open looking good. That hasn't happened. And in the end, he's going to have to figure it out on the fly in New York, I suppose.

13:25Matt Roberts: You mentioned Ben Shelton on that list, Matt. He is also out of Cincinnati. He lost to Jaime Farrier, 6-4, 6-4 overnight. His first match of the tournament, obviously coming in, having to acclimatise and turn around very quickly after his title in Montreal. How does this defeat and the nature of it affect both of your very punchy feelings about Ben Shelton after that title in Montreal, David?

13:58David Law: My feelings don't change. I still feel that he is just as much of a factor and a contender for the US Open title as I did before this loss. and that's because I feel like it could have you could have got two ways to go into the US Open in a good state A, by winning this tournament and getting even more momentum or B, losing early and being able to be fresh and go and just practice in New York for a lot of time now I know he's playing doubles in Cincinnati as well I don't know whether he's lost already but I know he was playing doubles with Tommy Paul but even so he's now got chance to acclimatize and really get used to it and actually he was talking in the pre-tournament press conference in Cincinnati about his post-Wimbledon period where he lost early and he said I was able to put three hard weeks in after that really get ready you know he says you can you know you don't want to lose early at Wimbledon but you've got to make most of it if you do and try to grind for the next stage and look this was this was a bit strange in as much as he came out pumped and he was looked like he really had ambition in the pre-tournament press conference he was saying I feel all right I feel good actually you know and I'm really looking forward to it Farrier is good we should say that he he qualified at this tournament without dropping a set then he beat jensen brooksby 6-3 6-2 easily now he's beaten ben shelton 6-4 6-4 shelton did go up 4-1 in the second set and and was getting fired up he he missed loads of chances i think he his first break of serve his break of serve that he got was on his 10th break point you know you you you're dicing with trouble if you don't take those sort of chances i just don't think once he's got his feet under him in New York that that's going to be the situation that and being said Farrier is 79 in the world and he's he's coming I mean he's come from not even being somebody I knew about a year ago to qualify in all three Grand Slam tournaments and he's a big match player he loved it you know he could see that he was quite happy to engage with this I'm playing an American in America thing and and he and he's got something about him I don't I don't worry for Ben Shelton at the US Open the biggest concern I would have for him would be injury like last year because he's tracking very similarly here he won Canada last year he lost early in Cincinnati and he and he said he was playing way better in Montreal than he did in Toronto last year which is the same as I think we all saw but when he got to New York last year he was firing and I just think he's going to be firing at Flushing Meadows I think he's a real contender this time Ben Shelton Matt you feel the same I do feel the same yes I think I'll feel

17:06Catherine Whitaker: differently if Sinner rocks up and suddenly is absolutely flying in New York but right here right now with that uncertainty I do think Shelton is is a contender and I'm not I don't think I'm going to be thinking too much about this loss in Cincinnati when he when he steps out for his first match in New York I think he'll be I think he'll be ready I think he'll be raring to go I think he knows he's been playing good tennis and yeah this one was one of those that could have that could have gone another way if he takes more of his break points it wasn't like he just was a complete no show he had absolutely nothing left I think there's probably maybe a bit of mental fatigue and sort of trying to come into that first match of the new place off the back of a title is is hard and yeah like honestly like the US Open is the tournament for Djokovic and Shelton here and Cincinnati is the tournament for Tarante and Farrier it feels like you know like they've both had they've both had really nice seasons you know Tarante's halved his ranking he was a guy who was always hovering around 100 just outside he's now 25 but he's he's up to around 50 in the world and he's beaten a host of good players this year to rante sarundalo shelton caballi paul fritz nori davidovich fakina and now djokovic that's quite a list and he's got a he's got a massive serve

18:30Matt Roberts: he's got a big he's a good watch isn't he he is 120 mile a forehand he hit which was the fastest

18:36David Law: of the year.

18:37Matt Roberts: He's flashy. He's got a very fast arm.

18:40Catherine Whitaker: Yeah. And then Farrier is just he's qualified at all the slams this year and has put together a really strong season and I feel like him and Nuno Borges are constantly breaking new ground for Portuguese tennis in that a couple of them are reaching the third or fourth round of tournaments. It's just going to be interesting to see whether one of them can now punch through even more and be like second week guys at these tournaments. And I think Farrier has got a shot at that. It was a really nice interview he gave afterwards, talking about how much it meant for him. He said he went over to his team and was like, this is a we made it moment.

19:16Catherine Whitaker: Like getting his first top 10 win and doing it on a big stage against a home player. He was really up for it. And you don't really see many weaknesses in his game. He's got a nice serve. He's good forehand and backhand. When he was trying to serve out the opening set, Shelton had a break point and he serve volleyed and saved it really impressively. He's coming, Farrier. I don't quite know what his ceiling is, but I think it's higher than where he is right now. So, yeah, nice for those two guys who've had big years to get, like, statement wins like this in a big tournament. And I just think Djokovic and Shelton just turn their attention to the US Open, really.

19:57Matt Roberts: David loves it. You're a Portugal guy, David. except at major football tournaments where Cristiano Ronaldo is a problem and Bruno Fernandes. In fact, many of the team are a problem. But outside of football, you're a Portugal guy.

20:16David Law: I go on holiday vacation there every year pretty much and I love the climate. I love the people actually. I mean, I find people so pleasant company and I always used to at the tennis tournament that I went to every year. You've been to it, Catherine, a Champions Tour event. It was the best one on the calendar every year in Val de Lobo in the Algarve.

20:38Matt Roberts: I only got to go once because you always nabbed that one for yourself. That's right. And then finally I got to go once.

20:44David Law: I only let you go when my kids were born.

20:51David Law: But I did. I used to go every year and all the players were like that. It's almost like we'll play for free. we love it there it's so nice um but i would always love hanging out with the the portuguese journalists a they were all massively into football and the tournament was just before the football season started and one year we hired assigned a couple of portuguese players and i was asking them all about it but i was always absolutely fascinated by why they hadn't got any tennis players you know they've got this perfect climate for the sport they can play year-round outside they've got clay courts everywhere and i just i never really understood it you know Borgias and Farrier they are they're real outliers I mean they had they had Joao Sosa

21:32Matt Roberts: who was that is their best player you know but Michelle Larcher de Brito yes uh yeah I mean just

21:41David Law: when when we were when we were going there um 15 20 years ago this was before any of these guys were doing anything and and they they just didn't have players that were anything like sort of Spain their neighboring country you know and it was it was always confusing to me um and yeah so Farrier having success now I think this could be could be really big for the country I'd love to see them get into it you know and and have a player that they really love watching she confirmed Portuguese

22:16Matt Roberts: Michelle Larcher de Brito. She's only 33 years old. Time for a comeback. Yeah. Okay, the time has come to talk about the latest incident of shoe-nanigans, folks. It involves Raphael Hodar and Denis Shapovalov. Was this, Matt, a generational comeback or a generational collapse? Surely something generational happened here.

22:46Catherine Whitaker: everything now has to be generational yeah i mean look if if shoo nanigans are gonna work on anyone it's gonna be denis shapovalos isn't it i mean yep five one up in that final set served for it twice, had match points, double faulted on a match point and got very annoyed at what was happening down the other end of the court with these shoe nanigans or shoelace nanigans, which doesn't work, but that's more accurate because it's his shoelaces that Hodder has issues with. And we have seen it multiple times over the last few weeks. often when he's been losing, not exclusively, but it has been when he's been losing against Fritz in the Washington final.

23:39Catherine Whitaker: I did against Nakashima in Canada. I saw him do it against Mazzetti when he was leading that match. So it's not always when he's losing. And his shoelaces, I don't know, they break or they, he has to change them repeatedly, like several, several times through tournaments and sometimes several times through matches. I don't quite know what to make of this. It seems that it's something to do with the way he slides and moves on the court, is sort of breaking his shoelaces. I don't think it's totally like he's making it up and there's not a problem there. I think there is an issue there. I think the way he's going about it and taking a long time to change these shoelaces, It's not having another pair immediately ready and all that kind of stuff and doing it in opponent service games.

24:33Catherine Whitaker: I'm not surprised it's sort of pissing people off. I think they probably need to handle it better than Denis Shapovalov did and let it sort of completely get to them when they're in the lead like that. And Hodder did start playing a lot better, we should say, as well. But I don't love it from Hodder. I feel like he needs to find a fix quite quickly to whatever is going on.

25:03Matt Roberts: I feel like the world and human beings might have evolved to a point where there probably should be a fix for shoelaces breaking. I feel like we've put a man on the moon. We can probably get Hodder some shoelaces that don't break. Maybe Velcro. Yeah. I feel like there's options there that he probably should be exploring. The umpire was incredible because it happened twice in the match. And the second time, the crowd were pretty confused about what was going on in his announcement. He said, sorry, folks, there's going to be a short break here while Rafael Hodder does something with his shoes because his shoelaces, he's got a problem with the shoelaces once again.

25:47Matt Roberts: It was excellent implied sass.

25:50David Law: I've got a fix, by the way. Yeah?

25:52Matt Roberts: Is it just better shoelaces? No, it's don't let him stop in order to sort out his shoelaces until the changeover.

26:01David Law: You got broken shoelaces?

26:03Matt Roberts: Tough shit. Speaking my language. Yeah, I mean, I don't think this should be allowed. That would surprise nobody.

26:11David Law: Fine, you know, I mean, I'm sorry. If your equipment ain't working, fine. Change them at the changeover. Do not waste any time. If you go over your time, you get a warning. Simple as.

26:26Matt Roberts: If you want to re-grip your racket, you have to wait till the changeover.

26:31David Law: This is nonsense. This is a ridiculous rule that the announcement goes up that a player is being given more time to sort out his shoelaces. What is that about? Just don't allow it. I don't blame the umpire. This is clearly in the rules, right? It just shouldn't be. I'm sorry. and maybe it's dangerous maybe it's more likely to turn his ankle if he can't sort it well I'm sorry sort it out

26:58Matt Roberts: but I think he'd sort it out pretty quickly absolutely if there were greater penalties or greater disadvantage to him for having his shoelaces break mid-match right totally punishment works folks that's the next t-shirt tough on crime

27:18David Law: I don't even blame I have no, no, you know, I do, I do look, I mean, Hodder took a medical timeout and he, cause he was cramping at five, one, like his calf had gone and he was stumbling all over the shop. I mean, look, Dennis can't have many complaints. I'm afraid you're five on up pal. And you, you, you, you, you got, I think he got to 30, 15. And then he has two match points, you know, and he would play amazing points to set up the match points. I understand it's nerve wracking and all the rest of it. and yeah look Hodar twice has this the broken shoelace and he's also having the trainer out every single change of ends again it's allowed he's getting but he's getting his calf rubbed and whatever um I I think Hodar probably is pushing the boundaries but I also think he probably is learning what the boundaries are he's never he's never even played a year before this

28:11Matt Roberts: one i do i mean look he is gaining a bit of a reputation isn't he potentially unfairly there's the there's the being a bit snappy with the ball kids which you know there were some incidents that i think the the internet was a bit unfair about with him but i but again i think they were unfair because he hadn't necessarily earned and benefit the doubt on that that front because there were a few few dodgy incidents and now there's this look he's not he's not killing anyone he's not he's not committing heinous crimes out there but he is just developing a bit of a reputation

28:47David Law: of being a bit eggy yeah he's also developing a reputation for for being an incredible fighter

28:56Matt Roberts: you know absolutely and the thing is david you know we're all talking about who's going to be the third guy. And I realise Alexander Zverev is there and has stepped up, but I'm talking in terms of young guys, if the Alcaraz-Sinna generation may be younger. And maybe this is a bit Djokovic-like, Djokovic breaking into the big two as it was at the time. A guy coming along that really isn't there to make friends and doesn't mind being a party pooper and raining on a parade and just is like, check out this tennis. is that a reach, that comparison?

29:40Catherine Whitaker: I see why you've made it.

29:42David Law: Yeah.

29:46David Law: Well, that's been well. He keeps surprising me because I thought he was going to be destructive at the French and he wasn't, but he was not playing very well and he still got to the quarterfinals. Then I thought his form and level and results would drop off a cliff because I thought he'd hit a wall, and they didn't. And then I thought he was going to list a tennis shapovalov, and he didn't. So I don't really know what's coming next from him. And he does, he looks very, like when these things happen, he looks a bit wide-eyed and, you know, what have I done? I didn't mean to do anything, you know.

30:25David Law: But he also stands his ground as well. so and he's and he's and he's unapologetic with his game what what i like about him is when something a little bit controversial happens his game doesn't fall apart because he's self-conscious or he's worried about who he might have upset he almost seems to get better so i find that quite

30:46Matt Roberts: interesting yeah i i guess that's kind of what i'm saying like regardless of what he ends up doing tennis-wise and whether he ends up being the Djokovic to their Nadal and Federer. Like, personality-wise, I love the Sin Karaz love-in. That's really fun. But I think it's fun that there's someone a bit eggier on the scene. Yeah, I guess I'm... To pat everyone's bums and be a golden retriever, you know? Like variety is the spice of life.

31:23Catherine Whitaker: I guess I'm just finding it hard because like Hodder's rise has happened at a time where Sin Caraz hasn't been a thing. It hasn't felt like the Sinner-Alcaraz duopoly that we had last year and this third guy coming along. And also like presumably Hodder and Alcaraz are going to be sharing Davis Cup teams in the future. And maybe they'll really get on and have these winning moments together. Like, I don't know. Or maybe they won't. Or maybe they won't. Like, who knows?

31:55Matt Roberts: Alcaraz gets on with everybody.

31:57David Law: Imagine if he didn't get on with Hodder.

31:59Matt Roberts: He's not going to not get on with him.

32:01David Law: It'd be great, wouldn't it, if he didn't?

32:02Matt Roberts: It might be slightly less affectionate. I don't know.

32:05David Law: Imagine if Hodder was the one who...

32:06Matt Roberts: There might be less fan fiction about Alcaraz and Hodder than there is about Alcaraz and Sinner. Do you understand that reference, David?

32:16David Law: I don't know what you're talking about. What? Fan fiction?

32:22Matt Roberts: Sorry, Matt. Carry on.

32:24Catherine Whitaker: I was going to say the other thing that added like an edge to this match is that the grandstand at Cincinnati is so loud. Like all the noise from the other courts bleeds through when you're watching this. And like mid-match, you were hearing music, fireworks, national anthems. Out calls. Out calls from the next call. I kept thinking the ball hasn't even landed yet. It was like... There was just this overwhelming sense of chaos happening at this match. And then, of course, we then got medical timeouts and shunanigans and Shapovalov being Shapovalov. Like, this whole thing. It was just a crazy environment.

33:08Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, that's something I've really noticed about the grandstand at Cincinnati, about just how loud it is.

33:14Matt Roberts: Was it in Cincinnati where we had Cotton Eye Joe?

33:17Catherine Whitaker: No, that was in Canada.

33:20Matt Roberts: Canada. What a time. Okay, folks, that's it for part one. We'll be back in part two to talk about a few other bits and bobs on the men's side and turn our attention to the women as well.

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36:43Matt Roberts: If you want to try Momentous Signature Spec Creatine, head to livemomentous.com and use code TENNNSPOD for up to 35 % off your entire first order. That's livemomentous.com, promo code TENNNSPOD for up to 35 % off. Livemomentous.com, promo code TENNNSPOD. Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast. a few more men's updates for you from the opening weekend of action in Cincinnati. Arthur Ferry, remember him? He can win tennis matches outside of Wimbledon. Won his first match since Wimbledon, 7-6 in the third over James Duckworth and now faces Alex de Menor. Félix Auger-Eliassime has beaten Stefanos Sitzapath pretty handily, 6-3, 7-5.

37:34Matt Roberts: Auger-Eliassime's first match since pulling out of Canada with a back injury and he looked pretty much 100 % physically, Felix Orgelia seems, so that was good to see. Alexander Zverev beat Cameron Norrie in a match that finished at 2.15am. I did say tennis was tennising and he now faces Terence Atman in his third round match. Of course, Atman a semi-finalist last year. Anything from that smorgasbord of results, David, to pick out?

38:09David Law: I do find Svev quite interesting because he lost first round in Canada and that was the only tournament he'd played since Wimbledon. He's one that I think does need this. He went to set down against Cam Norrie there and he needed that comeback. And I know it's late night and all that sort of stuff, but I think he needs some feel. This is a swing that he's, last year or so, he's complained that he hasn't had really much feel on the ball at the US Open last year. I really think he needs that, especially at a time when he could once again be the one to take advantage of this period. But again, there's a few there.

38:53David Law: Oji Aliassime, I think, is the same. There's a real opportunity, but they need to get some reps in. Whereas Shelton, I think it's fine for him that he's lost in that regard.

39:08Matt Roberts: Arthur Ferry? Are we into Arthur Ferry outside of the UK?

39:15Catherine Whitaker: Seeded Arthur Ferry, no less, which was, you know, I'd sort of registered that he was going to be in the tournament. I hadn't quite fully registered that he jumped so high to be seeded. I checked in with Matthew, our camera operator at Wimbledon. Big Arthur Ferry guy said he's got Alex de Menor next. And Matthew said he's going to win.

39:39Matt Roberts: So like he thought Sitsipas was going to win against Djokovic.

39:43Catherine Whitaker: Well, he's quite in tune with Arthur Ferry, to be fair. He did keep saying he was going to win the matches he kept winning at Wimbledon. True. and Dimenor himself needed a 7-6 in the third to get past Quentin Alice. He smashed his racket right at the end of that match at four all in the third. He had triple break point, then he had another break point. He didn't take it. He smashed his racket, which you don't normally see from Dimenor. He did sound a lot more upbeat in his tennis channel interview than I was expecting. I really like the tennis channel interviews that they do on site of these tournaments.

40:18Catherine Whitaker: and they have a good rapport, I think, with the players. They're sort of what you need in those broadcast interviews and they really get the players to open up, I think. And Dimonor was framing it differently. He was framing it in terms of being able to win when he's not at his best and seeing that as a positive. I just still think he's struggling with his game as well. So I do think Ferry's got quite a shot there, to be honest.

40:47Matt Roberts: Speaking of racket smashes Taylor Fritz did one of the weirder racket smashes I've ever seen did it within the first four minutes of his match against Alex Mickelson and then went on to win really comfortably I'm finding Taylor Fritz increasingly funny

41:08Catherine Whitaker: We know you're a Fritz guy in hiding, Catherine

41:11David Law: Yeah, I like it when things are a bit weird Fritz and Diminor had a little chat here, you know, and said, you know what, I found that if I smashed a racket, I played better. Oh, I'm going to try that then.

41:24Matt Roberts: First four minutes, though.

41:27Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, well, he lost his serve in the opening game and he was really annoyed about that. He barely made a first serve. He hit a double fault, Mickelson broke him and, yeah, smashed his racket. And I think it was Richard Connolly in the interview afterwards. afterwards i'm not 100 sure about that but i think it was asked him about it and uh he was like yeah i just needed to get it out of my system because if i hadn't i'd have still been annoyed playing the next return game and it would have festered and lingered he said yeah so maybe it was a bit weird smashing a racket after four minutes but it worked he broke back straight away and then played really well and richard i think was like did you come on to court with any bad feelings and he was like no no it was literally just the service game that annoyed me so I knew I would be okay if I got it out of my system so yeah it was good

42:18Matt Roberts: that's a pretty good advert for a racket smash isn't it you know a bit of controlled frustration release my kids are always appalled when they see one

42:33well

42:33Matt Roberts: we've done some good parenting there good parenting Yeah. Kasper Rude, retired injured against Christopher O 'Connell, seems to have a back injury and a hair injury. Tough scene for Kasper Rude at the moment. O 'Connell now plays Joël Fonseca, who beat Burtick van der Zandeskulp. Good to see that from Fonseca. I think he was very frustrated by the Shelton loss in Montreal, by all accounts. That's a good bounce back, I would say, because Bertic, what a player. What a player. Daniel Medvedev recovered from 5-2 down in the second set to beat Marco Trunjaliti. Did anyone see any of this? Did anybody see what Trunjaliti was wearing?

43:23David Law: I did, yeah.

43:24Matt Roberts: It looked like he was cosplaying someone that stormed the capital.

43:34Matt Roberts: he's Argentinian it was really taken aback

43:40David Law: I don't think he meant anything by it but it was a bit of a oh okay you're wearing that are you yeah

43:52Matt Roberts: Nakashima now for Medvedev would you say Nakashima the favourite there maybe probably

44:02David Law: 50-50

44:05Catherine Whitaker: He's not playing very well and Nakashima's playing really well Yeah, I think Nakashima might win that

44:14Matt Roberts: Matt, some Kabali updates for us Assorted Flavio Kabali updates

44:20Catherine Whitaker: Yes, well as you will know as a Kabali guy we've been on a down period He had lost three matches in a row, all in straight sets. Arthur Ferry, Burak Shager, Yannick Hanfman. So he needed to get something going heading into the US Open. And then he draws Ketj Manovic in his first match, which is not easy. He's had some trouble with him before, he said. But he managed to get the win in three sets. It was a match that had a big rain delay in the middle of it. and he sort of lost his momentum, but managed to get it back in the third. And in his interview afterwards, he said that he lost feeling with the ball after playing two of the worst matches of his career in Humag and Montreal.

45:14Catherine Whitaker: And I realised that the H that he loses when he pronounces Ulk, he gains when he pronounces Humag. So I really enjoyed that little bit of Kabbali lore. And he also said that he is coping on tour without his girlfriend by playing lots of PlayStation. So these are your Kabbali updates as he looks to rediscover feeling with the ball.

45:46Matt Roberts: We ride the waves with Flavio, as always. as we do David with Arthur Rindeknesh your final update from the ATP side of things in Cincinnati he's lost his tiny mind with some Sir Rundleau fans or maybe just one Sir Rundleau fan in the crowd. What's he up to Arthur?

46:10David Law: Yeah he was clearly getting heckled from the side of the court and as he I think as he leveled for 4-all and the decider he decided to let the fan or fans have a bit back and he did that by going straight over to them leaning over the fence quite dramatically and roaring in their faces which I loved but it was quite in keeping with some of his other demonstrative actions over the years. One thinks back to his high knee celebration and subsequent retirement after stubbing his toe. One thinks of have a nice flight home. One thinks of his five game run against Yannick Sinner and his Muhammad Ali shuffle and subsequently barely winning another game.

47:11David Law: And following this particular moment, he then lost to Juan Manuel Sorendolo. But I still loved it.

47:22Matt Roberts: Riding the ways with Artur Indekanesh as well. Okay, that's it for part two. We'll be back in part three to talk about the WTA. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the 14500 use the ServiceNow AI platform, While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows, and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com.

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48:45Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part three of today's pod. David, you said that Irina Sabalenka was the player most in need of a big Cincinnati. We've seen her play her first match. She needed six match points eventually to beat Talia Gibson, 6-2, 7-6. served for it in the second set, played an extraordinary game to eventually get broken back and taken to a tie break, which she then won comfortably. I mean, a straight set's win, but not hugely convincing, I would say, for Irina Sabalenka. What do you think?

49:22David Law: The same. This is part, I think, of what she needs in order to get to where she wants to be. it's not there yet you know she's not just flying she was decent in the first set but Talia Gibson hasn't been playing brilliantly of late um she's not been playing like she did in the spring um but yeah this this was a struggle in the second set and it was kind of clunky you know she's she's just not she's not sure what's coming off her racket at the moment which I think is a big problem for her mentally. She's so used to having total control over the ball, and if she hits the ball well, she's confident.

50:06David Law: And that isn't the case right now. But you've got to stay in the tournament to give yourself a chance to have more matches and to get to that point. I think that that's why this remains still a very important tournament. Not that she necessarily wins it. I don't think she has to win it. But I think she has to look convincing and look better by the end of it and go into the US Open thinking, OK, it's rounding into form.

50:34Matt Roberts: Igor Shontek and Elena Rabakina both won their openers after the turnaround from Toronto. They were given an extra day of rest, weren't they? But wins for Shontek over Emiliano Arango and Rabakina over Taylor Townsend. They could meet as early as the quarterfinals. Yeah, they'd meet in the quarterfinals. in Cincinnati, Svantec and Rabakkinet, if they get that far, Matt. Anything to report from these two opening matches?

51:07Catherine Whitaker: No, I watched the Svantec one a little bit more closely last night of a tight opening to it against Durango. It looked like she was sort of just trying to get back in the rhythm and a new tournament. But once she cracked it open, she absolutely raced through as I thought she would, Svantec. That's quite a good match-up for her, I think, against Sarango, who's a talented player but doesn't have big weapons to really hurt the top players. And I do like Svantec's draw here. It's interesting comparing her with Shelton and just thinking about trying to back up Canada by Cincinnati. I just think Svantec's got a nice look to certainly get to that quarterfinal.

51:49Catherine Whitaker: She's got Zachary, who has beaten her this year, obviously, but it feels like Svantec's in a very different place now and Zachary as well isn't all that convincing. And then she's got either Parry or Boisson in the fourth round, Svantec. So I really think she'll make that quarterfinal, whereas we're back in a... She probably... Well, she's got Magdalena Freck and then she's got the winner of either Schneider or Maja Kvalinska, which was, of course, the French Open semifinal a few weeks ago. They're now meeting in the third round, I think, on court three or four in Cincinnati. It's amazing how quickly things can change in tennis.

52:30Catherine Whitaker: But I sort of like that from Rabatkinner as well to make it through. So I think we probably will see Svantec-Rabatkinner again. And given how fresh I think Svantec might be compared to Rabatkinner, just because of the different sorts of matches they've played in this run, It feels like Svantec's got a bit of a look here at really going deep again in Cincinnati. So that would be quite something building up to the US Open if suddenly Svantec's in this really convincing run of form, back-to-back tournaments, you know. And I think it's set up for her to really do that.

53:09Matt Roberts: Kvalinska incidentally got her first win since Roland Garros in her opening match beating Christina Bookshore. Obviously, she had that hideous injury, very tough scene in her opening match at Wimbledon. So great to see for Wilinska. On Arango, incidentally, who Shontek beat in her opener. Arango in her first round match beat Venus Williams, who won just four games, 6-2, 6-2 in that match. That's nine games for Venus Williams in her two matches in Toronto and Cincinnati, where she received wild cards. She hasn't won a match for over a year now. Her last win was over Peyton Stearns in Washington last year.

53:51Matt Roberts: She's played 10 tournaments this year in singles with no wins. I know this is a tricky one and an uncomfortable question because we all love Venus Williams and respect what she's doing and what she's trying to do and how much she loves still playing tennis. And I love that she still wants to go out there despite the fact that she's lost all her matches this year. I really do love that. But I also think she shouldn't be allowed to do it, as brutal as that sounds. I just wondered whether you two had any feelings on the wild cards that Venus is continuing to receive.

54:33David Law: Yeah, I would share your view now. I felt I was quite defensive of her, But A, being offered wild cards because she's such a name. And B, you know, if she wants them, she's earned them just by her reputation alone. And I do slightly feel differently now. I'm not enjoying watching her being totally uncompetitive and losing heavily a lot. You know, I'm not enjoying that personally. Now, that's just a personal view. And out there, you may have totally different feelings. you may just think oh i just want to see her on the court i don't care as long as she's happy those are all valid feelings as well i do feel like at some point you are taking a spot away from somebody else um i mean i suppose wild cards by their very nature are just invitational um so does it matter golf did does it you know golf i've been reading a book about how the masters were giving arnold palmer uh uh an invitation to the to the masters when he was he'd not got a chance of making the cut you know when he was getting older but i do feel at some point i don't love it it just feels like an exhibition at this point for me like it feels

56:00Matt Roberts: like the most extreme example i mean i don't believe in any world cards but it feels like a really extreme example of kind of what I hate about wild cards, which is just, well, if that's what we want, then let's just, if you don't want to watch competitive tennis, then go and go and watch an exhibition. Yeah, I don't know. It's a really tricky one. Matt, do you want to sit it out?

56:30Catherine Whitaker: I don't really know where I fall. I take your point, absolutely. The last few matches I've not enjoyed watching. I've actually switched off. I've been a bit like, okay, I don't really need to see any more of this. And yeah, I would say that if you're going to have wild cards, one of the reasons the tournament would pick players for wild cards is because they think they're going to be a good ticket for people to have. And the crowds are packed. people are still showing up for Venus Williams. So maybe there's enough justification there. And just trying to judge that line of what is competitive and what isn't competitive.

57:13Catherine Whitaker: It felt like she was competitive last year. She got that win. She pushed Mukava, didn't she, at the US Open. Even the start of this year, she played a good three-set match, I think, against Danilevic in Australia. But it has tailed off. So like, how do you, how do you draw that line? I suppose is, is a little bit tricky. I've certainly, all I can say is I've enjoyed Venus Williams' matches up until the last couple, which I haven't enjoyed. And it has felt a bit different to me. Like maybe there's been a shift and given that now the option to get her in the tournament in doubles, I mean, it's always there really.

57:53Catherine Whitaker: I think she'd be up for playing doubles and she has been playing, but now, especially when you've got Serena as well, it maybe comes to, well does she also need a singles wildcard? Could it be a bit like what Wimbledon chose to do and not give her a singles wildcard but give her a doubles one so at least you get her in the tournament you sort of tip that box of people who want to see Venus Williams can still see Venus Williams but then you're also trying to make the actual main draw more competitive by giving it to someone who's going to have more of a chance perhaps there is that balance that's available to them and the singles wildcards can now start being phased out a little bit.

58:31Catherine Whitaker: But I have understood up to this point why she's been getting them. But the last couple of matches have been a tough watch. And they've been quite good draws, really, in the grand scheme of things, considering who she might have got. And she hasn't been competitive.

58:50Matt Roberts: Overnight tonight Matt Alex Eala against Amanda Anisimova What do you love more, the Anisimova backhand or the numbers?

59:02Catherine Whitaker: The backhand Sorry to all our new friends in the Philippines

59:12Matt Roberts: How will Anisimova cope with the circus? Will she be Alicia Parks or will she be Katie McNally? That's probably harsh on Alicia Parks, but she had a couple of moments of looking like she wasn't loving it.

59:32Catherine Whitaker: The thing is, if this match were happening with 2025 Anissimova, I would think Anissimova is going to win that. She is just a destroyer of second serves. And I think she would have just overwhelmed Iala with the form that she was in last year and the ball strike. Thing is, it's not 2025 Anisimova and the game's not really there. And she is getting stressed out quite a lot. And Iala's playing so well and is on this streak of beating top players, isn't she? And if she's caused all of those top players trouble, I have to think she'll probably cause 2026 Amanda Anisimova trouble as well. and throw the crowd in and Anissimova's going to have to deal with that thing of being at home but probably not being the favourite amongst the crowd with the Philippine support that there probably will be.

1:00:30Catherine Whitaker: I would probably think Keala's going to win based on where they are right now. But there's a bit of me thinking, well, what if 2025 Anissimova shows up and just blasts her off the court, sort of. Kind of like Bencic did. I know Ayala had nothing left in that one, but Bencic just made that look quite sort of straightforward with her game. And I think Anissa Mova's capable of that. I'm just not quite sure whether she will at the moment. If I had to make a prediction, I would probably be predicting Ayala right now.

1:01:05Matt Roberts: Mir Andreeva thrashed Oleksandr Olenikova, 6-1, 6-0. I feel like that is the sort of loss that Olenikova is just going to take. Sometimes with that game, she's occasionally just going to get hit off the court. Overnight last night, Coco Goff came from a set down to beat Ludmilla Samsonova, Lina Svitolina, 6-0 in the third over Teresa Valantova, saving seven match points. Svitolina.

1:01:34Catherine Whitaker: I've watched them all. Would you like me to do a breakdown?

1:01:38Matt Roberts: Yes. Oh, these are my favourite. Off you go.

1:01:42Catherine Whitaker: so Svitolina is serving down 3-6-4-5-15-40 that's when the first of the match points come and there are five match points in that game first one, forehand error, shanked wide by Valentova second one, backhand error, rally ball in the net third one, forehand error but off a decent shot from Svitolina, Valantova tries to defensive slice it back and it drifts long. Fourth one, forehand error, forehand approach long from Valantova. Fifth one, forehand error, mishit in the net from Valantova. So she loses that game. Svitolina holds. Valantova then holds to take it to 6-5. You're thinking after all those match points have come and gone, maybe she was going to lose serve, but she did well.

1:02:37Catherine Whitaker: She held. and then she had another match point a 6th match point at 5 all 30-40 gets a bit unlucky Valantova one of her shots hits a net cord and it sits up and Svitolina hits a winner so that's the first winner on the match point and then she gets another match point her 7th advantage and she hits a forehand error long she then generational

1:03:03Matt Roberts: run of match point fails that

1:03:06Catherine Whitaker: she then Valantova goes 5-2 up in the tie break but this gets away from her as well and that is then one choke too many and she loses the third set 6-love and as soon as you're in the third set with Svitolina having lost all those match points there's only one winner I think Svitolina's now won 15 of her 18 deciding sets this year an incredible record she is dealing with a bit of a foot injury it looked like to me Svitolina she was struggling a bit through this one incredibly gritty but Vanantova she's going to regret making errors on six of the seven match points it was a brutal watch

1:03:53Matt Roberts: Better things for other Czechs in the draw Barbora Krejcikova lost to fellow Czech Sara Belek Linda Nozkova got her first wins as a Wimbledon champion against Katie Bolter. And Katarina Siniarkova is through. She faces Madison Keyes, who got past Darius Nygur, just did Madison Keyes. Marta Kostiuk battled through against Sophia Kennan. And David, you can now reveal the identity of the perpetrator of the worst drop shot you have ever seen.

1:04:31Catherine Whitaker: Slash of the year.

1:04:35David Law: it's been upgraded Matt that's old news

1:04:40David Law: the first thing to note I think about this match is that Sophia Kenin was playing really well and just took it into the trenches and is doing a lot of the things that we're familiar with her doing when she's playing well Kostjuk has been a bit out of form since Wimbledon and has been just not looking like she trusts her game that much and she looks like she might have hit the wall a bit as well. So incredibly well done to her for winning this match in the end and going through. But she was aided by a drop shot from Kenan.

1:05:24Matt Roberts: For the benefit of the tape, he's done air quotes there.

1:05:27David Law: yes um kenny's winning the rally right she's she's forcing koscik side to side she takes her off the court behind the baseline opens the forehand face of her racket to hit a drop shot down the middle which looks like the sort of feed that i give to my son when i want to build his confidence with the ball when i'm at the net and i just plop one up in the air and i say put this away son and sure enough that's exactly what marta kostic did she didn't even have to properly run she just sort of it was just played to her and i thought kostic was quite generous in not smashing it through her and actually going to the side of her.

1:06:23David Law: But it was the worst drop shot I've ever seen. It was like half lob, half sort of mid-court have a put away.

1:06:38Matt Roberts: Beautifully described, David. Much appreciated. She faces Kostiuk. Has she got someone interesting next? She's got Slam Stevens.

1:06:50Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, Slam Stevens. Yeah. And I realised this week that in another lifetime, I subscribed to Slam Stevens' newsletter because one of those popped into my inbox. And I was just caught by it because the lead was like, as of this week, I am ranked 305 in the world. But just you wait till the end of the summer was basically the vibe. and she listed all the tournaments she was going to be playing over the summer. And I mean, she's playing everything, Sloane-Steven. She played Evansville, Memphis, Toronto, Cincinnati. She's playing Monterey next week and then the US Open. And actually, already she's beaten Staradup Saver, 62 in the world, Solana Sierra, 86 in the world, and Potapova now, 27 in the world.

1:07:42Catherine Whitaker: So sort of the losses have been getting less bad and the wins have been getting slightly better over this run. And now here she is in the third round and she's giving it a go. And as David said, Kostiuk's been a little bit vulnerable recently. I would still expect Kostiuk to win. But yeah, it's just intriguing that Stevens is sort of going for it as much as she is.

1:08:09David Law: I'm going Stevens. Okay. Wow.

1:08:14Matt Roberts: I do appreciate the Sloane-Stevens newsletter updates. It's reassuring to know that whatever Sloane-Stevens news there is, Matt will be across it. Yeah.

1:08:25Catherine Whitaker: She said it's a huge stretch of tournaments, a lot of opportunities and hopefully a lot of ranking points. So if this ranking isn't looking a whole lot better by the end of the summer swing, let's just say start praying for your girl now.

1:08:39David Law: I do remember at the start of the year in Australia when she did her post-match that she said the people said what are you going to do next and she says I don't know I just want to play a lot she did say that

1:08:51Matt Roberts: good for her we've seen everyone play now I'm going to ask you for predictions that's what we do here who's going to win Cincinnati men and women David David.

1:09:07David Law: Who's going to win? Matt's looking at a draw face.

1:09:19David Law: Yeah. I'm going to go for Coco Goff and I'll go for Taylor Fritz. I was going to go Fritz, you know.

1:09:31Matt Roberts: from racket smash to trophy what a journey love it david matt

1:09:42Catherine Whitaker: i might go for the sviontech double

1:09:46Matt Roberts: just just keep it rolling um i thought fritz as well but let's go

1:09:58Catherine Whitaker: Felix. Wow.

1:10:02Matt Roberts: From injury with Rural at his home tournament to trophy. Okay.

1:10:11Okay. Yeah. Well,

1:10:16Matt Roberts: see you on... Hang on.

1:10:18Catherine Whitaker: See you on Thursday when they're both out.

1:10:20Matt Roberts: Yeah. Okay. So our next pod is Thursday. The finals of this tournament are, in fact, on a Sunday, as normal. We thank you, Cincinnati. So we've got pods on Thursday and then we've got our live post-Cincinnati pod on Monday. A slightly different timing for the live pod on Monday. I'll let Matt explain why.

1:10:43Catherine Whitaker: I'm sure the listeners will understand. Fulham Chelsea at eight o 'clock in the UK. so obviously well the options were live show without me or live show at five o 'clock so we're going live show at five o 'clock

1:11:00David Law: Ultimatum Matt

1:11:03Matt Roberts: I'll be in New York by then lovely when did you go there? Saturday oh blimey I know tell me about it so yeah we've got one more pod with all of us here in the UK and not interrupted by football. That's on Thursday. And then we'll be back on Monday with our post-Cincinnati live show. And then it is non-stop pods, folks. We've got six next week. I think Tuesday next week is our only non-pod day. And of course, we're starting with the...

1:11:37Catherine Whitaker: But friends are getting a pod that day.

1:11:39Matt Roberts: But friends are getting a pod that day. Absolutely.

1:11:44Catherine Whitaker: The belter it is. US Open Relived will drop that day.

1:11:48Matt Roberts: Right, we're recording it tomorrow? Yes. Great. And holding it.

1:11:56David Law: Special guest, Yevgeny Kafelnikov.

1:11:59Matt Roberts: Yeah, David dropped a guy's... Guess what? I've got Yevgeny.

1:12:07David Law: I'd only been chasing him for a month.

1:12:10Matt Roberts: Yeah, he's a hard guy.

1:12:13David Law: He delivered with one day to go.

1:12:16Matt Roberts: He was there at the one time that I did the Val de Lobo event in Portugal, David. He was there and his luggage didn't make it to Portugal.

1:12:27David Law: I bet that went down well.

1:12:30Matt Roberts: And they lent him, they gave him kit from the shop, from the pro shop on site at the club, but they didn't have underwear. and so he told us all before the match that he was going out to play without underwear in fact what he actually did was emerge from the shop wearing the kit and ask Thomas Muster if if the shorts were see-through that is actually what happened excellent I didn't realize how much

1:13:00David Law: I'd got in common with Yevgeny Kowalnikov because it's not an underwear related point but um it i i arrived at valdeloba for the portugal champion store event with my luggage and whilst it was in the lobby of the hotel somebody working for the hotel mistook it for somebody's luggage that was departing and put it on a van and it ended up in dublin um no yeah and so i had the next three days with no luggage and fair play to the tournament they sent me off to the pro the golf pro shop and kitted me out it's fantastic with underwear did you get underwear i think i got those from another shop okay you decided not to bother yeah well you know we can't be everything the same can we but anyway the reason that we've got him on the show is to talk about the 1996 redraw of the US Open, the controversy of Yevgeny flying home.

1:14:06Matt Roberts: I'm so excited. Yeah, we found a way to do a tennis relived about a draw. We're pumped. So that's recording tomorrow. It'll be out on Tuesday next week for Friends of the Tennis Podcast. So for Friends, we are daily from a week today for three solid weeks.

1:14:32Matt Roberts: But our next show is Thursday.

1:14:34David Law: I wish I was wearing my Pumped t-shirt and not my Cut the Faff t-shirt.

1:14:38Matt Roberts: But you're wearing your Cut your Faff t-shirt, David. Is that pointed at Raphael Khodar? Here it is, Luke. I too am wearing my Cut the Faff t-shirt. We've had enough of Faff. Today's mascot is Nigel. We've had Nigel before, haven't we? We certainly know Paula Cech, Nigel's owner. Nigel is a rescue, as are all my pets, says Paula. He's a feisty boy. He's a cat, by the way, I should clarify. I'm looking at a lovely picture of him, black cat, green eyes. Paula says he's a feisty boy who loves to explore the outdoors, but is feeling depressed because we recently moved from Virginia to Stokie, Illinois, and he isn't adjusting to the move well at all.

1:15:22Matt Roberts: Oh, bless him. The new house has a beautiful, very large fenced-back yard, but he refuses to leave his spacious enclave in the basement. Once the new deck is built, we will work hard to coax him out to explore under supervision. He is loving and mischievous and always wants to cuddle in the evening, but right now he is royally pissed and hates everyone. The pod should wish me luck in bringing him into the new calm. Vicky tells us that this was submitted earlier in the year so we hope that Nigel is all settled now on his new deck. Really hope so. That's a... Oh, poor Nigel. What I would say is that being pissed and hating everyone really suits Cats.

1:16:12Matt Roberts: I thought you were going to say suits you. I'm not sure it does suit me, regrettably Yeah, Billie Jean was well she wasn't pissed but she was sad a couple of weeks ago, she had an abscess and it just didn't suit her at all being sad, but being

1:16:39Matt Roberts: Yeah, being a hater really suits cats and it yeah so but I hope I hope he's I hope he's happy now Nigel what a lovely little face I had a black cat as a kid Marmite so I've got a special place place in my heart for black cats and ginger

1:16:55Catherine Whitaker: cats because I had a ginger cat too there we go and um as the as the pods Illinois experts I can And I can tell you that Paula was part of a little barge meetup this week in Chicago with Rachel and a few others. I saw a lovely photo from a little meetup they had. So it was good to see Paula. And yeah, hopefully Nigel's all right now.

1:17:25Matt Roberts: People are hanging out in Chicago without you, Matt. I know.

1:17:31Catherine Whitaker: They almost had to put me up when I...

1:17:34Matt Roberts: When you missed your amortize.

1:17:36Catherine Whitaker: When I missed my train.

1:17:40Matt Roberts: Paula, thank you very much for making Nigel this week's mascot. And I hope he is enjoying his decking by now. Hello to Bodie Maisie and Roger, our mascots. Hello to Greg, Chris and Jeff, our top folks and executive producers. Let's have some shout outs, Matt.

1:17:57Catherine Whitaker: We have two shout outs today. the first of which is for Dustin Wilson from Seattle.

1:18:06Matt Roberts: Hello, Dustin. Like Dustin Brown.

1:18:10David Law: Great place. And great comparison, Dustin.

1:18:16Catherine Whitaker: Dustin is a long-term listener. This is his first shout-out. Dustin says, I fell in love with tennis when I was a teenager watching the Williams sisters take over the sport. And Serena would always be my all-time favourite. but these days I'm equally obsessed with Carlos Alcarez. I've since managed to turn my husband, Jay Kyle, into a full-blown tennis superfan. He knew nothing about the sport before me, but now he's got strong opinions and a favourite player of his own, Lorenzo Mazzetti. We've got tickets to mixed doubles and opening day at this year's US Open, which is pretty good going.

1:18:54Matt Roberts: Do you want to come on the Thursday as well, Dustin? the day after the mist.

1:19:00David Law: What's happening on Thursday?

1:19:02Matt Roberts: We're doing a performance on the stage, David, back to back with Chicago.

1:19:09David Law: Yep. Come, Dustin, come. Free entry.

1:19:16Catherine Whitaker: And you'll like this. Dustin also has three pets.

1:19:20Matt Roberts: Oh, yeah.

1:19:21Catherine Whitaker: Two chihuahua crosses called Luna and Pegasus. and he says and then there's our indoor pigeon who perches on top of the TV specifically to watch Taylor Fritz play. Oh.

1:19:39David Law: I just got Matt Roberts' face in my head. Is Taylor Fritz sort of making a noise

1:19:44Matt Roberts: on a particular frequency that birds respond to? Let us know, Dustin.

1:19:53Catherine Whitaker: another Fritz guy

1:19:56Matt Roberts: Dustin thank you very much for being a friend of the pod

1:20:00Catherine Whitaker: and finally we have Bob Murphy from Sydney Australia hello Bob like Bob Ryan

1:20:08David Law: and like Murphy Jensen

1:20:10Matt Roberts: oh very good

1:20:13David Law: very good who may or may not have been doing

1:20:16Matt Roberts: on court interviews in Washington I think it was Luke in the end

1:20:21David Law: but it is quite hard to tell them apart you know back in the day Luke used to have long hair and Murphy used to be bald now they're both bald so difficult to tell them apart they both sound the same but they are kind of fun I've got to say

1:20:40Matt Roberts: Bob's in Sydney?

1:20:43Catherine Whitaker: yes and has been listening since 2017 and has been following tennis since Pat Cash won Wimbledon wow

1:20:51Matt Roberts: 87 awesome wow so listen to the follow tennis for 30 years before the tennis podcast came along and then matt roberts came along all downhill from there i mean hang on that means that i meant that complimentary like like a bike going downhill it all gets easier from there a lot easier

1:21:17David Law: rather than it going, ugh.

1:21:19Matt Roberts: Yeah. Bob got it. Bob got it. Thank you, Bob. And thank you, Dustin, for being friends with the Tennis Podcast. If you'd like to become a friend of the pod, get access to all of our bonus content, ad-free listening, the barge, including, of course, that upcoming Tennis Relived show about the redraw at the US Open in 1996. Then the link to become a friend is in our show notes. That's it from us. We're part of the Athletic Podcast Network. We'll be back on Thursday. Thank you for listening. We'll speak to you then.

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