Cousins Prove Dreams Can Come True

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0:45Matt Roberts: AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the Fortune 500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows, and AI connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com. This is Steve Armour of Silverado, California. Whether you're boasting about your big pair of lungs, out for a walk with your woodle, or clearing your tennis court of sparkle spooge, you're also listening to The Tennis Podcast.

1:44Matt Roberts: Hello and welcome to The Tennis Podcast, introduced absolutely beautifully there by Long time listener and supporter and all around excellent human being, Steve Armour. Some little in jokes in there from Steve that some of you will enjoy. Some will have gone over people's heads, but that's fine. I loved it. So thank you, Steve, very much for that wonderful introduction to today's show. I am looking forward to this show very much indeed. The meat of the China swing has reached its conclusion. Shanghai and Wuhan coming to pretty extraordinary ends yesterday. David is here. Hello, David.

2:34David Law: Hello. Yeah, they did come to quite extraordinary conclusions, didn't they? And actually, I ended up having the loveliest time watching all of it. The last few days of both tournaments I thought were fabulous. Yes, and it was tennis happening first thing in the morning, which is your dream and my nightmare. Although here we are at 8.14 in the morning recording today's show. This is as productive as I am able to be before 9am, I think, and it's very much a one-off. Matt, how are you doing?

3:14Catherine Whitaker: yeah it's 814 BC for me before coffee and yet here we are and uh I think I think it's going to be a good pod I think I think you're right I think it was a fun fun conclusion to those tournaments like a little bit for everything if you want your big names go to Wuhan if you want the Rindekanesh family go to Shanghai.

3:40Yeah, let's start in Shanghai, shall we? Which we obviously talked about on our last pod. We predicted chaos, but my goodness me, we didn't know that it would be Rindekanesh family chaos. Who could possibly have known that a David Law pep talk could have such a powerful force field that it could impact not only Artur Indeknesh himself, but all tennis-playing members of his family, David. The world number 204, Valentin Vacharo, beat his cousin, Artur Indeknesh,

4:19Matt Roberts: in the final in Shanghai to win his first ATP title and become the lowest-ranked man ever to win a Masters 1000 title. 4-6, 6-3, 6-3, absolute scenes in the final. Rindra Knessh adding his name to the list of players defeated by Cramp in Shanghai and my goodness me, was it a long list. And yeah, there's so many elements to this Valentin Vachereau story. And David, you were all in on all of it. all elements of the Valentin Vachero story were right up your alley.

5:02David Law: Yeah, oh, they really were. And listen, I kind of got into the Vachero story because I was following Rindiknesh. Obviously, I have a vested interest because I've kind of got into Arthur Rindiknesh this year and I had my little chat with him in the corridor in the US Open and Simon Briggs was good enough to remind us a couple of days ago that on last week's pod, I said he might go all the way, Rindik Kinesh. And that sort of drew slightly startled responses from yourselves. I think, Catherine, you said, what, win Shanghai? And I sort of said, well, and then I suddenly thought, actually, that does sound a bit ridiculous.

5:40Of course, that's probably not going to happen. And I tried to row back a little bit. And little did I know that another member of his family ranked outside the world's top 200 would actually go one step further.

5:53David Law: by beating his cousin in the final. I mean, absolutely astonishing turn of events. But my word, did I enjoy the run of Vachereau, the story of Vachereau. He talked afterwards about how he wasn't sure whether he could keep going anymore if he wondered whether he would ever get inside the world's top 100. And he said his girlfriend sort of convinced him that it would happen this year for him. And here he's managed to do it in the space of a week. He's gone from outside the top 200 to 40 in the world. Rinderkinesh, in the speech at the end, you reiterated what he said to me in that little chat on Tennis Podcast Meets, that earlier this year he wasn't sure whether he could carry on.

6:42He's 30 years old. It's just not going well. And now he's having the best results of his career. And it was the manner in which they both did it. You know, Rindeknesh beating Zverev and playing this kind of cavalier type tennis, swashbuckling tennis, getting to the net a lot. And again, he's been one-upped by this guy from Monaco who never had a player like this at all, who's just got explosive power on both sides. He's a strapping guy, six foot four, six foot five, huge, big, hulking guy who just takes huge swings off both sides. And has somehow managed to knock out Novak Djokovic despite losing the first game and going to break down.

7:25You know, we'll come on to Djokovic and maybe the physical state he was in. But this was just an amazing run. There were six matches coming from a set down, you know, to get through to this stage. He turned up in Shanghai not even knowing if he'd get into qualifying. I mean, that is incredible all around. and it's made his career, it's made him a millionaire on the spot and he just seems like the loveliest bloke. I mean, it's probably not that difficult to seem lovely when you've just won that thing, but he really does seem like a lovely fella and they were crying. I missed half of the goth-pagula match.

8:09I had to relegate that to the small screen just because I had to watch this trophy ceremony and hear the speeches and they didn't disappoint. You know, they were there on the stage and one guy is looking to the sky in disbelief. The other guy is down on his haunches. They're both in tears, telling each other how much they love each other in public, in front of thousands of people. And then Rinderknecht starts to cramp and falls off the stage having cramp in his leg. And the cameras had to do a sort of instant cutaway just in case he was really seriously ill. It was the most dramatic.

8:45David Law: Thankfully, he just had cramp. And the ATP trainer, fair play to him, managed to get out there and sort him out, put him on a chair. But my word, what a dramatic scene and an amazing end to the tournament. Have we ever seen a medical timeout during a trophy ceremony before? The closest we've seen is probably when Nadal played Djokovic and they kind of had to give each of the chairs.

9:10Matt Roberts: But I've never seen an ATP physio have to attend the scene.

9:15Catherine Whitaker: before and i really enjoyed vashiro's response it was the most the most family-esque response just sort of look at him and basically just laugh at him like he'll be all right

9:28David Law: sibling sibling i think we're okay yeah and look i think we probably need to hold our

9:35Matt Roberts: hands up here valentine vashiro was not somebody that was on our radar at all i'm not sure he was on any radar. This is not some young up-and-comer whose card was marked as a potential future talent. You know, watch out for this guy. Keep an eye on his results. We knew him. We knew his name only as a wild card into Monte Carlo. That was how we knew him because he's a Monogask, right? We thought he was the token local wild card into Monte Carlo. we did not even know that he was Arta Rindukhanesh's cousin and we are, I think in the scheme of things, particularly one of us we're Arta Rindukhanesh connoisseurs I think, you know, yeah, I think that's what we are we didn't even know that this guy was his cousin and that he had this in him like, it's a lot to process, Matt

10:40Catherine Whitaker: it's a lot there's a lot to process yeah and when I was thinking about it I think it kind of was almost that element that made me think it was like such a special week because you know we've had family matches before in tennis you know we've had the McEnroe brothers play each other on the men's side I think that was the last time that there'd been like an all-family final on the men's side back in the early 90s there and obviously we had Venus and Serena like the most incredible sporting story that there is pretty much those two being at the top of the sport for so long but it was the unknown and it revealing itself to us in real time and them then going on to meet in the final during the tournament where everyone learned about it that made it so sort of cinematic and hollywood and all of those cliches you know like that element and and also extremely amusing you know like as it as it was happening i was like this point in the season i want the funniest possible outcome at this tournament you know like it's been a tournament absolutely decimated by injury and retirements and withdrawals and players struggling how can we get some fun out of this tournament and it was clear that it was the vachiro rindekanesh path the collision course and then to get it you know on semi-finals day we had them going up against jokovic and medvede you know and you're thinking okay neither Djokovic or Medvedev are at their peak right now but you would still expect them to end up in the final against each other and no it was it was the magic of the Vashiro Rinnekinish story and yeah it was a real it was a real how can you not be romantic about tennis week wasn't it you know like so their mothers are sisters um also Vashiro's coach is his half-brother and the nephew of Rindekanesh's mother.

12:33Catherine Whitaker: So there's another connection there. And there were just so many moments where you had these real, just beautiful family moments, you know, whether it be Vashiro coming on court after Rindekanesh had won his semi-final and giving Rindekanesh a big hug when they both knew they were going to be in the final. The fact they warmed up together the morning of the final. The thing that Vashiro wrote on the camera after he'd won, saying grandma and grandpa would be proud. Just lovely, lovely moments the whole way through. And yeah, hands up. I did not have any idea that Vashiro could play tennis like that.

13:14Catherine Whitaker: He'd won one tour level match prior to this, as you said, in Monte Carlo. And the extraordinary thing, David's kind of mentioned it, the tennis he played from a set down all week. To win six matches from a set down, including a couple in qualifying, and one of those he was two points away from defeat. There was a graphic on the tennis TV coverage just literally showing how his ground stroke speed and speed generally on his shots went up in the final sets of these matches. He was just bold, playing aggressive tennis, going for it. The final set he played against Rindnikanesh was unbelievable. I know Rindeknesh was really struggling physically, but Vashiro did not miss a ball, really, the entire set.

14:00Catherine Whitaker: He was superb. So, yeah, just a really incredible week and kind of a reminder that, as Vashiro said himself, things can change so quickly in tennis, right? You know, like not normally to this extreme. This is crazy. But it really does sometimes just take a week, a spark, a couple of matches or two, and you can change your career. And that's what Vashro has done. He's inside the top 50. He's going to be playing on the tour now rather than the Challenger Tour, entering tournaments that he hasn't had a chance to enter before. And, yeah, kind of live the dream is what he's going to get to do off the back of this week.

14:44Catherine Whitaker: and just crazily special. And will he be able to continue the dream, David? Oh, you went there. I know. It's okay if he doesn't. You came to the right guy. It's okay if it was just one romantic, cinematic week.

15:05Matt Roberts: It doesn't need to mean anything, but I am intrigued to know if it means something because this was a unique set of circumstances in Shanghai, wasn't it? You know, some players not there, a lot of players falling by the wayside because the conditions were so crippling and an incredibly slow tennis court that these two dealt with incredibly. Like, the amount of entertainment in their tennis on that court was so impressive. Like at the start of the week in Shanghai, I was worried that there wasn't going to be any particularly fun tennis to watch. And it was all going to feel like death by a thousand cuts because it was so impossible to hit winners.

15:51Matt Roberts: But that court actually kind of drew the magician out of both Fashiro and Rindikinesh. And they created something really, really fun. But is this a week or a 12-day period in isolation, David?

16:12David Law: I really hope not. Because I really loved watching Vashro play. He is fun to watch. And he does draw you in. He's very likeable. And I think that there are a lot of players and coaches who may look at his game and be able to tell me specifically why he isn't higher ranked than he is and why what you're laying out there isn't going to be sustainable. To my eye, I look at a guy with the materials, with raw power off both sides. And, I mean, he hit some stunning shots in that final alone. You know, being pushed into corners on his backhand side and coming out with clean winners. And they didn't look like they were wild, flailing shots.

17:07They looked compact and repeatable. On the forehand, he just has the ability to hit through that court. You know, not that many people were able to do that.

17:19David Law: That seemed more of a sort of muscled shot, more of a kind of heave. But he was pulling it off. I don't see why he can't cope in in the sort of ranking level that he's that he's now at really just by just based on what I've seen I realize he's maybe just had the week of his life and a lot of them a lot of them like could have gone the other way if he'd have just lost a couple of points here and there and we may never have been having this conversation that that just shows how how wafer thin uh a future is and and isn't and and that that's a bit scary to think about but he's he's the thing with thing with top level sports is once you get up there it's a lot easier to stay there in in tennis it might not be it might not be it's in some sports but actually rankings wise once you get into these big tournaments you only you only have to have a couple of good days here and there and you you pick up points and you stay in the ranking zone that you're in i just think like the upper echelons of his game are actually a lot higher than a lot of people who are who have been around the the 50 in the world mark for years whether whether whether he sort of has a bad run i mean you know lots of things go into whether you able to to sort of string wins together are you mentally strong enough are you sort of do you believe in yourself?

18:49David Law: All these things are factors but just looking at his game and his physique hopefully he stays fit, all these things but I just think well why not? He's got a big game.

19:03Matt Roberts: If he survived Shanghai physically intact, David, I think he could survive some sort of meteor event. I'd back him to stay physically fit. Nine matches in those conditions and he's the guy who actually was getting better in matches he's the guy who in the final set of the final match probably played the best tennis that anybody saw raw week and he beat so many different types of players gerrard bublich mahach okay mahach was a retirement greekspor runa djokovic rindikanesh like extraordinary run and i think greekspor um

19:43Catherine Whitaker: might be doing the sort of thing we're doing and a sort of slight Vachero apology because his quotes after that match were a bit like, I beat Yannick Sinner the other day and now I just lost to Vachero. Like, what is going on? But, you know, I suppose he's probably feeling a little bit better about that loss now that Vachero has backed it up, backed it up and backed it up again and gone on to win the title. I think the thing for me is that kind of what we've said before about like young players and you only get that chance to be young player for a very short period. And that's something that's so special about being a young player.

20:22Catherine Whitaker: You can use that in a way. I almost feel like Vachero is going to lose that underdog status that he had this week that I think was absolutely underpinning everything that he did. There was a snowball effect of underdog, really. You're going from one match into another. Everyone was kind of underestimating him, thinking, OK, this will be the round where the run stops. And yet he just kept it going. And I think being catapulted into that ranking spot that he's in now, literally having won a Masters 1000 title, I don't think people are going to be necessarily expecting him to sort of back it up by winning more Masters 1000 titles.

21:03Catherine Whitaker: But he just won't be able to play with that same sense of freedom, I suppose again I think is my is my slight sense and I think I think that was vital to how well he was playing particularly from a set down in all these matches so I totally take the point about it's going to be easier for him to earn bigger points now because he's getting into bigger events I think he can I think he can maybe even continue to go up in the rankings certainly hover around where he is for the next year or so. But I would be surprised if this isn't the absolute high point of his career.

21:45Matt Roberts: Similar question, but this time about Artur Rindeknesh, whose situation here is very, very different because this is the continuation. Okay, it's a very, very high peak in terms of the trend, but it's a continuation of a trend for Rinderkinesh of becoming a consistent, credible top 40, now top 30 player. I think he's up to 28 in the world. What's next for Rinderkinesh? And I guess kind of what I want to know, I know we have the credible Rinderkinesh joke, but if he plays that same match against Yannick Sinner, a role on Garros next year, does he approach it differently? Does he step on the court really believing he's going to win and he's not going to be the alley-shuffle, high-knees, entertaining-for-five-games guy?

22:48Matt Roberts: And he's actually going to be the guy that can have a serious challenge, have a serious go at the top players, David? Well, I think the thing is, you do have to look at that draw and think, well, actually, maybe you were just a bit unlucky there for a start. You played Yannick Sinner. You can lose in straight sets to Yannick Sinner and it's no shame. But, yeah, I mean, look, I think because of his whole history with Taylor Fritz and his stub on his toe,

23:22David Law: having just celebrated wildly moments before and had to retire from a match. All these things made him look like a bit of a joke, really. And actually, that sells him short, really. He's a very serious character about his tennis. He wants to be free on a court. I think he likes those celebrations, but he sees them as almost a means to an end to try to free him up and play that loose kind of tennis. What I do think is I would want to seek out his matches at Roland Garros now, you know, because he should be expecting, with the protection of a seeding, perhaps, a bit of a run. You know, not just a...

24:06Come on, David, you have been seeking out Artur Rindeknesh matches for the last six months. No, I have, but I haven't seen it at Roland Garros. That's different, you know. And it's a bit like with Mute. This last year, I felt the same about him. You know, suddenly he's actually, this isn't just the odd one-off. He's doing it to a loss now. How many French players are you intending to take under your wing? I am quite into a lot of them. You are, yeah. Yeah, you've got a little stable of French guys. I mean, there is only one Art of Feast, obviously. And now a Monogasque as well. Yeah, well, absolutely.

24:47these are all players that move me and they're all a bit funny as well

24:51David Law: apart from Artifis he's not funny he's just electric and cool and dreamy and amazing but I don't know I mean the interesting thing for Rinderkinesh will be I mean he's turned 30 now 30 isn't old in tennis standards now it used to feel like this dead end age years ago

25:15Matt Roberts: But it's all in terms of making a breakthrough. Yeah, it is.

25:19David Law: And a little like Matt said about Vashro, we may look at 2025 as the pinnacle of Rindkanesh's career. I think that that's perfectly reasonable to think that that might be the case. Equally, though, he's shown his game is a problem to people. I don't quite know how his service is as effective as it is, the way he delivers it. just just on to my eye he looks like he's too front on and as though he's going to fall over to his left when he hits the serve and yet he still manages and his ball toss is like the

25:53Catherine Whitaker: furthest forward in the world isn't it he really does yeah fall into it i don't quite know how he

26:00David Law: he gets the success with it that he does but he sure does have it and i mean you know he's he's beaten zverev twice this this year i mean look 16 players have beaten zverev so So, you know, it's not that big of an achievement. But, I mean, you know, to do it twice, including a Grand Slam, I think is significant. And then to just be backing it up by beating the players he's beaten. He beat Felix Ogi Aliassim this week. And you saw at the net the kind of acknowledgement from Felix of what he'd just been beaten by. You know, this guy's playing some good stuff. and it all looks I think it takes players by surprise because they just get a bit ambushed by the accuracy and power of the serve and then he's come into the net quite a lot I think that's a good move I don't think he's a great volleyer he doesn't look like a great volleyer to me but he's a big guy he's tall, he's rangy he's come in on good ground strokes and he's just there and he's a problem.

27:08So I don't know. I just think he worries people

27:14David Law: because he looks like he's not that bothered and that makes him more dangerous. And he is really bothered, but you don't know when he's coming for you. He's not a good volleyer, but he is there.

27:29That is the faintest of compliments, isn't it? Should we talk about Novak?

27:37Matt Roberts: Well, a few of the various victims of the Rindikanesh family along the way in Shanghai, starting with Novak Djokovic, who was beaten in the semis in straight sets by eventual champion Vashiro. He had a wild old week, did Novak Djokovic, and ended up physically really struggling in that semi-final, which you can look at two ways. A lot of people were physically struggling last week in Shanghai. Just add Novak Djokovic's name to the list. Looked at another way. He's 38 years old. This is part of a trend of seeing Novak Djokovic exit tournaments looking like a 38-year-old. Where do we stand on where Novak Djokovic is at after last week, Matt?

28:34Catherine Whitaker: I think it slightly depends what your answer is to the question, why did he go to Shanghai? Because, you know, like if he went to prove that he can still win, you know, big level tournaments and I think particularly get through big level tournaments without physical issues. You know, I remember in that final press conference at the US Open where he was talking a lot about the problems he's having over best of five, but he mentioned best of three. And like that, over that format, he almost thinks that he would have maybe more of a shot at beating Sinner or Alcraz because he really felt like it was the physical toll of having played four or five best of five set matches and then having to play Sinner and Alcraz at the slams that was holding him back.

29:23Catherine Whitaker: But we saw a lot of physical issues in Shanghai, even over best of three. You know, like every match was an enormous struggle and it was a combination of, I think, the conditions. Like, they've never been his ideal conditions, that kind of oppressive heat and humidity. Particularly now, I think they're not going to be. But also he was obviously having quite a lot of back issues as well, wasn't he? and look at times his level was good but equally at times he was being really pushed by guys that he's always been able to beat much more easily than that you know he went three sets with Hanfman three sets with Munar two tight sets with Zizou Berg you know it was not peak Djokovic level so if you think he went to win the title and maybe even beat a Sinner or Alcaraz I think them not being in the tournament certainly Alcaraz not even starting it Sinner having to retire so early in it that might have just it might have sort of opened it up as a chance for Djokovic to win it but he might also have gone there hoping to play one of them and test his own level against them over best of three so from that point of view I think you have to say I don't think he got out of Shanghai what he wanted at all however I'm having a slight readjustment of why Novak Djokovic is playing tennis at all and I've always thought he's only playing to win you know but he's kind of told us that he is looking for these moments he is looking for appreciation and love and he's getting that I mean the reception he gets in China has always been incredible I think he's earned it and deserved it by the way that he really does go out of his way to, you know, he speaks pretty good Chinese and he writes on the camera and he spends a lot of time with the fans.

31:16Catherine Whitaker: And, you know, he really does respect the culture that is over there and the fans that he has there and, you know, all of that. So, and I do think now that is a big reason as to why he's still playing. And he got that. He got a lot of love. He got a couple of incredible moments, you know, flat on his back. after dropping the second set against Munar, looking down and out, and then coming back and defiantly winning the third set. You know, I'm starting to think that these little moments now are what Novak Djokovic is in it for. I think there's obviously still part of him that wants to win these titles, of course, but I no longer think it's the be-all and end-all for him.

32:02Catherine Whitaker: So to answer your question, I don't know, because I do think there's both. I think he wants to win, but he wants more than that. And he got more than that, but he didn't win. So I really don't know. I wonder whether you have more clarity in your answer. But I feel like that's just where we're going to be now with Novak Djokovic, constantly weighing up these different elements of why he's still playing. And some weeks will give him that satisfaction and some won't. And I think on the whole, this one probably did. he had a run he got the love but it's hard to look past those physical issues and see how how much he was struggling and when I think about him talking about LA Olympics and all that kind of thing when you see him like this it's kind of like well what state is he going to be in in two years time like I think he's gathering evidence in terms of what his what his exit out of this sport is going to be.

33:03Catherine Whitaker: And I don't know whether it's completely clear in his mind. Yeah, as always, he remains, whenever he's in the draw, he makes it, he kind of makes it more compelling and more fascinating. Do you agree, David? Do you think there's been a shift in mentality and motivation from Djokovic?

33:23David Law: I definitely think over the last year there has. This is not isolated. Most tournaments that he has been in, He has ended up looking physically less than when he started, and much more than anybody else, and much more than he ever has. And he's acknowledging it. It's like his body can't really cope with the rigours of a full tournament. Maybe it would in a 250 or something like that, or a one-week 500, I don't know. maybe he just needs a bit of good luck and his body to kind of handle it for a couple of weeks. Because I don't think it's for lack of preparation or anything like that. I think he, I mean, you could say it might be a lack of matches going into a Grand Slam perhaps, but I trust him to be turning every stone over in practice and preparation.

34:21David Law: He just happens to be 38 and starting to look like it now. I think the big question mark for me is whether he has in his mind already decided what the exit is and it might be sooner than I'm not so sure it is just tournament to tournament and see how I feel now and I have no evidence for that I don't know that he doesn't subscribe to that in things he says out loud but he must think about I think he said he thinks about it. He may just not have reached a decision or a conclusion. But I still wouldn't be at all surprised if next year is his last. And I think that would be absolutely fine for him, his legacy.

35:11David Law: I just hope for him that it isn't kind of limping out of something and realising I can't play anymore at all like it was for Roger Federer. That's what I hope he manages to avoid, that he can figure out some sort of way that he wants to go and get that.

35:30Matt Roberts: Yeah, I think I expect next year to be his last. What exactly that looks like, I don't know. But I think I do expect 2026 to be the end of the road for Novak Djokovic. And maybe he's thinking, OK, what if I do a farewell tour next year? does that tour go beyond the Grand Slam season? Maybe he's thinking this is my last chance to play Shanghai and that was his motivation for being there this year. It's certainly very possible, I think.

36:07David Law: I could imagine it being Lombardone, personally. Because I think he really does want to play one more Lombardone. And I just have a feeling that might be what happens. that he decides that that's the perfect note.

36:23Matt Roberts: Just before we move on to Wuhan, I feel like we should touch upon the Daniel Medvedev show in Shanghai. Matt, you said what you want at this time of year is funny. I feel like Daniel Medvedev has been delivering that and in particular his matches with Lerna Tien, which is my favourite new weird rivalry in ATP tennis. They played the match of the week, I think, last week. I loved Medvedev TN even though it felt like a sequel to The Hunger Games. It kind of had a little bit of everything. And as much as Medvedev is delivering fun, he also does seem to be delivering some of his best tennis in a very very long time

37:13Catherine Whitaker: yeah I mean sequel to the Hunger Games sequel to their match in Beijing the week before where you know it felt like the script writers only had one script for that and that is Medvedev to to go up a set and look to be like he's going to win it and then start cramping dramatically and for Tien to to get back in the match. But this time Medvedev did manage to get over the cramps. He didn't have to retire. And actually, I think, incredible display of resilience, I think, to win that match in three sets the way he did and then play a really good match, I thought, against Dimonor. You know, there were elements there of absolute vintage Medvedev.

37:58Catherine Whitaker: You know, Dimonor simply unable to get the ball past him and then Medvedev able to sort of turn the tables and hit big winners up the line. You know, really good Medvedev elements in that match. He's not back by any stretch of the imagination. You know, like the serve for one is still nowhere near as good as it was when he was at his peak. And he is having more physical issues. I know it was, you know, extreme in Shanghai, but, you know, even in that Dimonor match, it looked like he was hanging on and struggling even in a straight set win. But it's good signs, you know. There were times where I thought maybe the Thomas Johansson coaching partnership might be over at the end of that TN match, considering the volume of abuse that was going his way.

38:49Catherine Whitaker: And then he gets the win and he plays that match against Dimonor and I think, oh, it's healthy and it's never been better in the Johansson-Medford coaching partnership. you know like it was really swinging one way and then another kind of that was the Medvedev experience all week but yeah like good to at least have him back getting to the latter stages of big tournaments um again whether he can continue that let's see but I think we saw kind of the value of Medvedev in a week like this where I thought he I thought he was extremely compelling viewing and And yeah, the TN Medvedev little rivalry there is, God, give me more of their matches.

39:32Catherine Whitaker: Like two players who construct points and struggle to hit winners cleanly, but use their minds in such an interesting way. And you know that Medvedev really rates TN. You know, in that interview afterwards, he was massively talking him up. He basically said he can't serve. His serve's rubbish. she basically said but from the back of the court he is one of the very very best players in the world and i think anyone who's watched tm would probably agree with that assessment so yeah more of them playing against each other please more of tn generally and hopefully more of medvedev looking a bit more like his old self i know that i know david's quite into the johansen medvedev

40:20David Law: partnership i'm intrigued by it and i like i've always liked thomas johansson as i i got to know him similar vintage um i was on the tour when he was on the tour um and i think he's a he's a shrewd guy but he's also he's just got that really down-to-earth, deadpan, Swedish kind of, I'm not going to listen to any of this nonsense, I'm just going to crack on with my job attitude, you know. He did a great job of just putting his head down and just saying, come on, you know, serve out wide, you know, watch for the slider, you know. And he wasn't rising to any of it. And it felt like Medvedev was trying to challenge him, trying to bait him, provoke him into a reaction.

41:13I've never really, I think probably McEnroe might be similar, but I don't think I've come across many like Medvedev,

41:21David Law: who's able to go from, I think, being really rude and obnoxious, actually, to umpires and to his coaches, and actually makes me thoroughly dislike him. And then a couple of minutes later, be talking in his on-court interview, kind of owning every bit of it, but giving a really detailed analysis of what's just happened and why. And he's utterly compelling and likable. How he manages that and kind of then turns me around. It's quite something. but I mean I think I think it's come at the right time this coaching change because he needed a new injection of life into his career whether it's going to last and amount to much we'll wait and see but it was definitely the right call I think.

42:14Matt Roberts: Okay that's it for part one join us in part two when we will head to Wuhan and the WTA 1000 title won there by Coco Goff. Today's show is brought to you by Vanguard. To all the financial advisors listening, let's talk bonds for a minute. Capturing value in fixed income isn't easy. Bond markets are massive, murky, and let's be real, lots of firms throw a couple of flashy funds your way and call it a day, but not Vanguard. Vanguard bonds are institutional quality. Institutional quality isn't a tagline. It's a commitment to your clients. It means top grade products across the board. Vanguard's been in the game a long time, and their scale gives them a serious edge.

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44:55Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part two of the tennis podcast where we turn our attention to Wuhan and Coco Goff's first title there. She beat Jessica Pegula, her former doubles partner, 6-4, 7-5 in the final. beat Jasmine Paolini in the semis, didn't drop a set all week. She's never as high as you think and she's never as low as you think. Matt, Coco Goff is incredible. She's absolutely incredible. I mean, the manner of her defeat in Beijing, as much as I said on last week's podcast and I was telling myself, you know, let's not catastrophise about Coco Goff off the back of one poor performance, I still didn't expect her to go to the next tournament and win it without dropping a set.

45:43Catherine Whitaker: Same. Yeah, like a very good week for the latter part of that take. Never as low as you think she is. Yeah, she was so nearly double bageled by Amanda Nisimova a few days ago and then turns it around and wins the title. And actually, this is now two seasons in a row where you've come out of the US Open And there's been a big, big part of me thinking, shut the season down, Coco. Like, go and have a rest, go and work on the game, have a block. And it's two seasons in a row where she's gone on and had some really, really big success. You know, she won, what was it, Beijing last year and the WTA finals after the US Open.

46:27Catherine Whitaker: And this year she's now won Wuhan. And she even said that her coach thought about shutting the season down. and, you know, considering it. And she said, no, I still want to play. And look, the game was a lot better this week. I think there are still obviously elements that she can improve. You know, she played a match against Jasmine Paolini where there were 11 breaks of serve in a row, you know, like in the middle of that match. And I thought she played a great tactical match against Paolini to not feed her forehands. She'd lost to Paolini three times already this year, and she just made the matchup look different.

47:10Catherine Whitaker: Incredibly smart tennis from Coco Gauff to do that. And then in the final, again, incredibly tactically smart to mix up the pace of her shots and not give Pagula rhythm, which Pagula absolutely craves and is so good at. But she took pace off. She mixed up heights and spins and just really scrambled Pagula's mind a little bit as Pagula tried to take it into a third set. You know, there were still double faults looming. You know, there was a sort of run of them that meant that she went three love down in that second set to Pagula. But she was also serving 74 % first serves in. Like, there were clear improvements to her game that we've seen even from just the week before or certainly since the US Open.

47:59So I think, you know, she's absolutely, you know, it's been a good decision to keep playing

48:05Catherine Whitaker: and try and put some of those changes into practice, I think, and get a title like this. And she's got this absolutely remarkable record in finals, hasn't she? She's never lost a final on a hard court. She's the first player ever to win her first nine WTA finals on a hard court. It's a really impressive thing, the way she competes in these big finals. and yeah you come out of it just absolutely in awe again of her resilience really because you know she could easily have been really dismayed coming off uh beijing where anisimova beat her so so easily and yet she puts it behind her comes out and wins the title the next week it is absolutely remarkable it's it's it's something that has powered her whole career really where she's often had her her biggest successes off the back of some really poor form just in in recent in recent months so yeah like very very impressive week from Coco Golf and good to see because I did I was beginning to wonder whether you know it did feel like she needed a week like this you know as much as I'd stand by the take you know I do still think she needs those little wins along the way and she just hadn't really had one in a while you know kind of ever since Roland Garros it had been only question marks and only concerns about the game from the outside mostly I think she was pretty confident in her choices and the and the and the process she was on but you want these little wins along the way and she's got a pretty big one here and yeah just hats off and incredibly incredibly impressive from Coco Gauff.

49:49Matt Roberts: On Pagula David she might not have left Wuhan with the trophy, but she's confirmed her qualification for Riyadh. OK, that was never in much doubt, but she's confirmed to be in that field. Fourth American to qualify this year. Reached the final, obviously, but also did the impossible. She snapped Irina Sabalenka's tiebreak streak by beating her in the semifinals in an incredible match.

50:22David Law: Yeah, and particularly an extraordinary end because she was 5-2 down in the deciding set. To Arena Sabalenka, to turn around a match like that, I'm not sure whether to be more shocked at Sabalenka letting that go or more impressed that Pagula turned it around. I mean, I suppose on both, at the end of the day, I certainly don't want to take anything away from Pagula because I really feel like she stepped up to Sabalenka. She challenged her. She took play away from her. She has a brilliant way of retaliating in rallies, does Pigula. I think she's great at staying in them, reading where balls are going.

51:05David Law: And then she tries to sting you with her own shots, if she can get half a yard sort of thing to swing. But that was a massive shock, really. Sabalenka, once she'd got into the tournament, I mean, I saw Sabalenka's first match against Rebecca Sramkova, Shremkova and Shremkova broke her immediately with some incredible returning and I thought oh wow Sabalenka's in trouble here she lost the set and when she'd won that won that match and got back into it I thought she's she's gonna win this whole tournament again you know she just doesn't lose this thing and and that's how it was looking really you know she's in the semi-finals against Pagula who's had it had I was sort of waiting for the tournament to catch up with Pagula you know That was her eighth match in a row where she's gone best of three sets, gone the distance.

51:54David Law: And Matt had detailed that in his stat in our newsletter, that this is sort of in the record books stuff now. This was equaling the most recent streak of three set matches in a row. I can't remember who the other player was. I know Alison Risk was the leader, Matt. Who was the second one?

52:14Catherine Whitaker: It was Ostapenko on eight a couple of years ago as well. Yeah. Yeah. So, and I mean, and she'd become such a great watch at Peguila, the way she was just struggling to convert match points herself, but then saving match points on her own side. And kind of when everybody's wilting physically and everybody's just sort of struggling at the end of the year and struggling in the conditions,

52:42David Law: she seems to be almost getting better. and I definitely do think this has been the best spell of the year in many ways for her. She's looked great. She's looked full of running, full of energy, and I dare say she doesn't completely feel like that, but that's how it was coming across. So it was a fantastic run to the final. I do think I felt like she was hitting the wall in the final. She went three love down immediately to Goff, made a real match of it even though it was straight sets, but as Matt was saying, the strategy of Goff who I would say, I mean, I always remember the quote she gave at the US Open where she said, after the US Open to me, the rest of the year really is about working on my game.

53:28David Law: So even though she hasn't taken time off for a block to work on it, her attitude shifts, in her words, so that she's not thinking about results all the time, even though she's actually amassing these incredible results she says it's about working on her game and trying to get better for next year um and maybe there's something in that in terms of what you actually end up with that you perhaps loosen up a little bit um she certainly looks a lot looser than she does at the US Open which it really struck me when we were at the US Open how not only obviously all the question marks about the serve and the biomechanics coming but all the stuff she she is signed up to do with sponsors and expectations of her at the US Open suddenly weighed incredibly heavily this year I felt I was taken aback by that um and and so yeah maybe now it's a little a little easier in a way

54:27Matt Roberts: and weighed heavily before that on Wimbledon I think in a slightly different way because of the amount of stuff of that ilk she did following on from the Roland Garros victory. Yeah, I think that's a really good point.

54:44Catherine Whitaker: I just want to echo David's sentiments on the Jessica Pergula experience over the last two weeks. Like, her matches, particularly the ending of her matches, have been so fun. And I can't tell whether she's been the most clutch player on tour or the most un-clutch. She's won from match points down against Raducanu, lost from match points up against Noskova, made a total mess of the first set against Navarro, but ended up coming back to win it. Needed seven match points to beat Hayley Baptiste. Double-faulted four times in a game when trying to serve out the match against Sabalenka. The only time all match she hit the double-fault.

55:29Catherine Whitaker: but then reset to win the tie break against Sabalenka who'd won 19 in a row. Like her ability, and I use that word reset, her ability to put stuff behind her and get back to work in matches is ridiculous. Like, you know, we talk about Coco Gauff's resilience. I think Pagula is up there in terms of resilience as well. Like it's remarkable the way these matches have finished in such dramatic ways. one after another. And I have to come down on the side of clutch generally because she's won so many of them. It's just taken a really long-winded route so often to get there, but she's often ended up getting the win.

56:11Catherine Whitaker: And yeah, full credit to her. It's been so fun to see that.

56:17Matt Roberts: Jasmine Paolini got her first ever win over Iger Svantec. And how? 6-1, 6-2 in the quarterfinals. Matt, you texted the group to say Paolini was returning like Andre Agassi.

56:31Catherine Whitaker: Which I know is always a dangerous thing to put in a WhatsApp group with David because, you know, Andre Agassi's returns, David will defend them to the help, put them as... He'll go to war for them. Yeah, you know, but I thought, he's not going to argue about Jasmine Paolini. I'm safe. Wasn't far off. And look, Andre Agassi was doing it against Gorani Ionisovic's serve on a slick, fast grass court at Wimbledon. But what I meant was just the devastating impact. And Paolini was just taking Svjantek's serve apart in a way that I'd never seen her do before. I'd seen other players do it, but I'd not seen Paolini do it.

57:19Catherine Whitaker: And her numbers generally in that match were incredible. 15 winners, only three unforced errors. She was playing bold, risky tennis, but not making errors off it. It was like a perfect Paolini performance. She was so good. I think Svante looks pretty exhausted, to be honest, and like she needs the end of the season. So I wouldn't draw too many conclusions about her performance, really. I think it's likely that some of your worst habits are going to come out at this time of year when you're feeling like she is. But from a Paolini perspective, she needed that win, right? It's important for her. She's trying to get into the WTA finals and she'd never beaten Igor Sviantek before.

58:08Catherine Whitaker: Even an Igor Sviantek who's not at her best, I thought would be a difficult matchup for Paolini. But she just dominated it. and okay she couldn't keep it going against Coco Goff but she's at least like really put herself in pole position I would say it's in her hands you know she is now ahead of Rabakina in the race and they're both in Ningbo this week so you know if Paolini can better Rabakina's result she's going to still be in front of her so like a big week for Paolini I would say who hadn't had her best tennis before the Sviantet match and then just delivered it emphatically

58:46Matt Roberts: Yeah, we've got two spots up for grabs and basically three players fighting for them. And all three of those players are playing the 500 event in Ningbo this week. So it's Andreeva, Paolini and Rabakina. And Paolini is very much in pole position there. And yeah, they've got a great field in Ningbo. So Andreeva, Raducanu, Rabakina, Paolini, Bencic, Mboko, Alexandrova, Vondroshova, Mukova. Great, great field. Alexandrova is a top 10 player now. When I did my fantasy league picks at the start of the year, I didn't think Katerina Alexandrova was going to be my bread and butter. She's keeping you afloat.

59:33But I also didn't think Unchaketebu was going to be my bread and butter. So, you know.

59:38Catherine Whitaker: Did you have bread or butter? Yes, Alexandra. No. No. No, my original team had Hubert Hercatch in it. Where's he been? Managed to fob him off on David. Yeah. That was a good bit of business. You named your team Buyer's Remorse. and I very much stand by that it was it was like 2 o 'clock in the morning wasn't it in Perth it was 2 o 'clock in the morning and I was also hosting the oh yeah that was the other excuse the draft it was a savage yeah I really fumbled it was a real it was terrible for me I had a real crisis of confidence afterwards anyway it was a learning experience as I recall it mid auction you were really doubting yourself all the way through it I thought I was quite a good multitasker but I really I don't know under the heavy microscope of a draft I really I crumbled David and ended up with Huber Hercatch and Ekaterina Alexandrovich although accidentally that was a great pick so here we are.

1:01:00Matt Roberts: Folks, that is it for part two. Join us in part three when we'll cover some bits and bobs of news, including important One Point Slam news. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the 14500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows and AI connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com.

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1:02:44Welcome back to part three of the tennis podcast, where before we get on to the section that I'm busting to talk about pertaining to the revamped one-point slam.

1:02:56Matt Roberts: Some more serious bits of news. Jack Draper has hired Jamie Delgado as his new head coach. He will continue to work with James Trotman, who's been his very, very long-standing coach and has remained a part of the team even when other coaches have come on board. Obviously, Wayne Ferreira most notably for a short period last year. but Jamie Delgado will be the primary coach by the sounds of things he will cover the majority of weeks on tour and James Trotman will continue to be there but in a slightly more backseat role what was your reaction to this news David?

1:03:37David Law: Well I do think James Trotman's a very good coach and they've done really well together I don't know the circumstances behind that but I do rate Jamie Delgado I think he's a good bloke, I think he's he's proved that he can work with several different players now and he's I mean he did a solid job with Andy Murray at different stages of his career, he was there for a long time, that gave him a good grounding at the very top level he saw things I think at the top level that really stand you in good stead for informing other players what it takes and I think Denis Shapovalov made an enormous mistake by not continuing with that relationship and really investing in Jamie Delgado for the long run because he got an immediate return as it turned out with a run at the Australian Open.

1:04:35David Law: Grigor Dimitrov then picked up Delgado and really has had some amazing results the last two or three years. I think absolutely maximised his game, helped him maximise his game. I know also Danny Valvedere was involved there too, but just looking at the work of Dimitrov, he finally kind of figured out what he should be doing, I think. And Delgado was a big part of that. I think he just I think he understands tennis I think he understands when I sometimes say I'm talking from a lay person's point of view that I'll often go to Jamie and he'll sort of back it up he'll back up what I'm seeing with my eyes with the specifics and I would have thought he will understand Jack's game very quickly he will understand how it hurts people and there's always the question mark have had to manage Jack to try to help him stay fit, which is not something a coach alone can do.

1:05:43David Law: They need a team of people, but there will be a similarly common-sense approach, I think, that Delgado will provide, as will have happened under James Trotman, and at a higher level with more people in the past.

1:05:58Matt Roberts: He's also happy to go all-in, Delgado, isn't he, and be there as many weeks as you need him for. Yeah. Which I think can be quite a big deal. That's often not the case with the very top, you know, the high-level coaches. It's a bit of a negotiation of how many weeks they're prepared to be on the road. So that'll be interesting to see in 2026. We've also had the news that the ITIA has introduced a support programme for players navigating integrity investigations. So that's anti-corruption and anti-doping investigations. This is a trial scheme which is starting immediately and it introduces support initiatives for anyone involved in an ITIA investigation including financial assistance to test products, confidential third-party counselling and free legal support.

1:06:55Matt Roberts: So a review of this trial will happened at the end of 2026. The CEO of the ITIA, Karen Morehouse, said anyone who finds themselves part of either an anti-doping or anti-corruption investigation deserves the opportunity to defend or explain themselves and we recognise the process can come at both a financial and emotional cost. No player picks up a tennis racket as a child with any motivation other than playing the game. Individuals find themselves in these situations for a lot of reasons and so no matter what those reasons are and where the case ends up they also deserve someone to talk to this is kind of a it's basically legal aid this um but in a in a tennis setting and does seem to be although it's not explicitly referenced there a direct response to some high profile cases you've got the the tara moore case which dragged on for a very very long time and she's been very outspoken about the toll that that took and her her own personal inability she felt to be able to properly defend herself in that time and also you've got the Yannick Sinner case where everything seems to have been above board but he obviously has tremendous resource resource available to him to be able to defend himself and get access to to every possible bit of leniency or loophole or whatever you want to call it get the best possible treatment because that is what you hire people to do for you if you've got the resource to do it everybody would so this on the face of it it you know practically how it all works out we don't know we'll find out at the end of 2026 but as a headline David this seems like a really good thing yeah I'm I'm happy

1:08:46David Law: that this is happening I I do think goodness how how deep are the pockets here for for the cases that could come up the number of cases and and given the Tara Moore example just how long it's taken and and how expensive it would have been um but look i'm i'm happy that something is is changing in this in this uh situation because yeah i mean it doesn't it it doesn't feel right that you just don't have a chance if of defending yourself if you're particularly if you are innocent because you don't have those those resources yeah you don't want finance and

1:09:33Matt Roberts: resource to be the determining factor in justice nobody wants that the sport doesn't want that okay that'd be an interesting one to follow now the big one point slam news it's had a makeover folks I'm nervous I'm really nervous I've been it did it didn't need a glow up it was well it wasn't quite perfect but it was a it was a beautiful beautiful thing and maybe it will continue to be maybe it will get more beautiful I'm I'm wary of not doing what I what I originally did with the one point slam which was write it off and then it turned out to be the absolute light of my life. This could be the same, but I am anxious.

1:10:24Matt Roberts: They've announced this week, Tennis Australia, that the winner of this year's one point slam will earn one million Australian dollars. There's a new format. It means that there are 10 amateurs competing and 22 professionals. This year it was 16 and 16. And Craig Tiley has confirmed that Carlos Alcaraz will play. So any Australians or international players who have registered with Tennis Australia can enter the one point slam events at their local tennis clubs. The winners of the grassroot tournaments will then go into a draw with one amateur player from every state and territory selected to take part in the grand finale in a night session on Rod Laver Arena on Wednesday the 14th of January.

1:11:15Matt Roberts: Now I can't believe I'm about to say this because I would have thought that there is no event in tennis that could not be enhanced by the participation of Carlos Alcaraz. I don't think this event needs Carlos Alcaraz in fact I think Carlos Alcaraz goes against the spirit of the one point slam is that controversial to say?

1:11:42Catherine Whitaker: no

1:11:44Matt Roberts: like it needs professionals but I almost think the fact that this year the professionals were Priscilla Hon and Omar Jessica and okay there was a Hercatch, there was a Rublev but like the point is that it's pros against amateurs not that it's i don't know it's not carlis is a pro

1:12:09David Law: yeah katherine you're gonna it's gonna happen all over again you're gonna turn up and you're gonna bloody love it um i look i think i will enjoy it but i'm worried they've they've stripped the heart and soul from the one-point slam. You want it on the Keir Arena. I want it on the Keir Arena. I want I want Paul. We all remember Paul. Yeah, and look, okay, it was won by a pro this year, but it was won by a

1:12:40Matt Roberts: pro for whom$60 ,000, which was the prize, was still a really, really massive deal. It was won by Omar Jessica, wasn't it? I don't know. I know I'll be into it. I'll love it. But I just, I feel very protective of, it's my favourite event of the year. I feel very protective of it. And I don't think it needs, I just don't think it needed a revamp. It was such a beautiful thing. All it needed was the finessing of the coin toss situation.

1:13:12Catherine Whitaker: It needed less faff. I remember there'd been quite a lot of, yeah, it needed less faff. Yeah. I fear it's going to get more faff. Well, I mean, I think this is Craig Tiley's response to the US Open mixed doubles. It is. You know, I think that's the reason that they've gone so big now on the one point slam. Like, I think they've seen what the US Open did in terms of hosting a big event in the lead up with top players. And they've thought, we want some of that.

1:13:46David Law: They've seen what it did to Catherine Whittaker. Yeah. But it did that to me because Paul was the star of the one-point slam 2025. Not Carlos Alcaraz. I don't remember who Paul is or was. I sent you a video of Paul mere days ago, David, with timestamps. I didn't quite get to it.

1:14:12Paul was the am that took the one-point slam by storm. Didn't quite win it, but he did take out a couple of pros along the way. Had a swashbuckling wide serve.

1:14:24Matt Roberts: Paul is the point of the one-point slam, not Carlos Alcaraz, is what I'm trying to say. Still 10 potential Pauls. Paul should be the star.

1:14:33Catherine Whitaker: I would feel better if it was even number of amateurs and pros again. I don't like that discrepancy.

1:14:41David Law: It's got a little bit of... I suppose we will have to invite Andrea Vavasori to the next doubles to it

1:14:47Catherine Whitaker: I suppose they will say that by doing this local club grassroot stuff they're trying to reach out to the amateur players and get people participating that way my response would be great but let's have equal numbers on the actual Rod Laver arena for the finale. I don't see why you can't even that up.

1:15:15Matt Roberts: I don't see Al Karaz against Hercatch playing one point. No. That's just absolutely not the point. No. No. What makes you think Hercatch is in this? Because he was in it last year. He was the big draw last year. Yeah, he was. Yeah, him and Rublev were the big names, weren't they? You think he's not going to get the call up again, David?

1:15:41David Law: like Matt says I think this is their mixed doubles so they're going to get as bigger names as possible and they're going to make it as glitzy as they can but it's still amateurs coming in for one point against them I think it's going to be great okay I hope so thank you for your reassurance David it's very important to me that the one point slam remains the light of my life I mean, you can go.

1:16:05Catherine Whitaker: I think there's an event also on the Monday, Catherine, involving just the amateurs. It's some sort of qualifying thing to get to the night session event on the Wednesday. And I'm pretty sure you might already be in Melbourne. So you've got to be there. Yeah. Yeah, great. Brilliant. this week while I twiddle my thumbs just counting down to the one point slam what have we got to entertain us this week talked about Ningbo, the WTA 500 event, we've also got a

1:16:40Matt Roberts: WTA 250 event in Osaka where Naomi Osaka is the top seed, you've got Linda Nozkova there as the second seed, she must be absolutely exhausted Nozkova

1:16:53Catherine Whitaker: that tournament, I was watching a bit of that this morning, that's a throwback event in terms of the court colours. You know, like most courts now are blue. This one is green. It's like watching tennis from David's time. Obviously, it's still David's time. Okay. But David's favourite time. Good rescue. Yeah, good save that. What I'm saying is I couldn't see the ball.

1:17:30Fernandez-Baptiste is the first round. I'll definitely check that out. That sounds great. We've got the ATP 250 event. And now Matty. Karen Hashanov is there. Daniel Medvedev, Flavio Caballi all in the draw.

1:17:43Matt Roberts: We've got Mute Tomic round one. Did you all see the social video this week from Shanghai of the players trying to hit through a very, very small target or three targets of varying sizes, but everybody was going for the top one, the smallest one. Have you seen that, David?

1:18:05David Law: No. Oh, no, I have. Yes, yes. It's a good bit of content.

1:18:08Matt Roberts: Very good. Wasn't it? Didn't Medvedev turn up and do it first time on the backhand? He certainly did it. Not quite first time, but he did. Everybody was so on brand. He missed the first couple and then kind of figured it out and bunted a completely flat backhand through the slot. TN did it. Leonard TN figured it out. He looped. He plopped a topspin forehand through the slot. Flavio Caballi just sort of flailed a bunch of shots at the target and then just did sort of very extravagant gestures towards the target when they didn't go in. Alexander Zverev just looked annoyed and like the world was against him because it didn't work out for him.

1:18:57Yeah, it was a good bit of content and not necessarily revealing because everybody was exactly who you thought they would be,

1:19:07Matt Roberts: I think, in quite a fun way. The ATP is also in Brussels this week for its 250 event. You've got Lorenzo Mazzetti and Felix Orgelia-Siem as the top two seeds, Joel Fonseca and Botic van der Zanschulp is a round one match yes please we've also got an ATP 250 in Stockholm Holger Rune and Kasper Rude the top two seeds you've got Ima against Ima in round one Mikael against Elias keeping up the family theme in the ATP and we've also got the Six Kings Slam in Saudi Arabia involving Novak Djokovic, Carlos Al-Kharazianic Sinner Taylor Fritz, Alexander Zverev and Denis Shapovalov.

1:19:51Catherine Whitaker: No, it's Stefano Sitsipas, isn't it? I thought that was weird. Why was Shapovalov? Have you just done a late edit to the agenda? I mixed up Sitsipas and Shapovalov in my head and wrote Shapovalov when I meant Sitsipas. My trust in you is such that I went ahead and read Shapovalov, even though every bone in my body was saying Denis Shapovalov has not been asked to play the Saudi Kings yeah sit to pass Djokovic has been given the second seeding in this event which means he gets a bye

1:20:26David Law: how many of these injured players are going to make it I wonder after all their various ailments matches on Wednesday Thursday and Saturday it's going to be on Netflix so there you go

1:20:42Catherine Whitaker: by the way what a wild thing a tennis season is. Joao Fonseca is now lower ranked than Valentin Vachero.

1:20:53He's the guy we should have been bigging up.

1:20:56Catherine Whitaker: Like, predictions really are a false game, aren't they? Yeah.

1:21:06Matt Roberts: What about us? We are back on Monday with our next show to talk about all of that. We also have a Friends show, a Q &A show live on Friday night this week. What fun. A Friday night live show. Disco David. Disco David making a comeback. So if you're a friend of the pod, that'll be live on Friday on YouTube. It'll be available as a podcast as well. If you'd like to become a friend, And then the link, of course, is in our show notes. We have a mascot for today's show. In fact, we have two. These mascots are from lovely, lovely Carol Ray. Long time listener supporter, all around wonderful person, has been to our live shows before.

1:21:58Matt Roberts: And she submits today Dobby and Stray. Now, we've had Stray as a mascot before, I think several times before, actually. Yes, Carol says you've met Stray a few times before on the tennis podcast. So I thought I'd introduce Dobby. Dobby came to my daughter in March as a rescue from North Macedonia. He was billed as a Jack Russell, but a doggy DNA test since shows there's no terrier in him, but some Pekingese, some Chihuahua and 5 % wolf. That's incredible. Dobby is a pretty perfect little dog he loves people, food and my daughter Eliza he adores Stray and follows her everywhere they enjoy digging huge holes in the lawn together and Dobby can take or leave a tennis ball but Stray makes up for that sometimes travelling with two in her mouth and we've got an absolutely adorable picture here of Dobby and Stray together curled up on a sort of plushy thing definitely being friends and yeah Carol sent me a message on Instagram actually when Dobby was added to the family and it was all just very wholesome, wholesome, lovely time so I'm very happy for Carol and the family and Dobby and Stray who look like they're the very best of friends which is my absolute favourite thing so thank you Carol we of course have our mascots Phoebe, Maisie and Roger, hello to you, we have our top folks and executive producers Greg, Chris and Jeff.

1:23:34Matt Roberts: Let's have some shout outs Matt.

1:23:36Catherine Whitaker: We have Marion and Martina from Mainz, Germany.

1:23:42Matt Roberts: Hello Marion and Martina. Very Tennessee names there like Bartley and Hingis or Navratilova. Or Trevisan. I was not expecting that third name.

1:23:58Catherine Whitaker: That's true. and Marion and Martina say we have now made the WTA tournaments in Stuttgart and Bad Homburg a fixed part of our calendars I can highly recommend both love that

1:24:13Matt Roberts: just ticking off all the all the key German events good stuff thank you Marion and Martina thank you

1:24:20Catherine Whitaker: we've also got Becky Piggott-Bader or Bader maybe Piggott-Bader from Collier's Wood in London. Oh, nearby. My neck of the woods. It is. Or the wood.

1:24:40Hello, Becky.

1:24:41David Law: Like Rebecca Marino? I don't know if she goes by the name Becky, to be honest.

1:24:48Catherine Whitaker: It's a good shout, though. And this is a present. A shout-out is a present from Becky's husband, Jimmy. Oh Lovely Well that's a very Tennessee name Becky actually isn't a very Tennessee name Is it? I think we might need a Might need a bit of Pam Or some Nick Imerson help Becky or maybe Jimmy Has come up with Becky Vest An American Player in the 70s Had a second round ceiling in the slams But is apparently the only Mississippi born and raised female player to make the main draw at Roland Garros, Wimbledon and the US Open. Haven't fact checked that, but sounds good. Jimmy, we like it when people do the research for us.

1:25:40We salute you. Thank you very much. Jimmy has done you proud there, Becky.

1:25:45Catherine Whitaker: And finally, we have Andrew Greenhoff from Bristol. Hello, Andrew. We've met Andrew at the US Open. a couple of years ago during the Alcaraz Medvedev semifinal. Oh, yes.

1:26:03Matt Roberts: Gosh.

1:26:04Catherine Whitaker: And Andrew says, I'm writing this shout-out form a couple of hours before the women's semifinals at the US Open, which I agree is the best night session in Grand Slam tennis. I'd intended to be there this year, but sadly my mother passed away in the middle of last month, so plans have understandably had to change. and instead of being at Arthur Ashe Stadium tonight, I've been getting some sleep in ahead of attempting to pull off an all-nighter watching Sabalenka Pagula and the much-anticipated tennis podcast Derby, Osaka versus Anissa Mova. Andrew says, the daily Grand Slam episodes have helped enormously in coping with several long motorway trips between my home in Bristol and my mother's house in Yorkshire.

1:26:48Catherine Whitaker: So a big thank you to the three of you and your guests for providing a much needed distraction and giving me other things to think about and making me laugh and smile. Oh, Andrew, thank you for that. I'm sorry you lost your mum. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the pod and taking some comfort from it. That's extremely lovely for us to hear. And yeah, I hope you're doing well. Andrew like Andrew Baron Murray that's what he was when he first came on the scene right he was an Andrew like Stanislas he had a rebrand like the one point slam

1:27:36David Law: and that worked out alright didn't it it did yeah Andrew Becky Marion Martina thank you ever so much for your support

1:27:46Matt Roberts: of the tennis podcast if you'd like to get yourself a shout out You can do that by becoming a friend of the tennis podcast. The link is in the show notes. We've got that live show with Disco David on Friday night. We will see you then, friends of the tennis podcast, and we'll be back next Monday on the main feed. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. Thank you for listening. We'll speak to you soon.

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