Dan Evans - The party's (almost) over

0:00There are moments that reveal who we are and who we're meant to become. For those born to lead, such moments call for a vehicle of equal distinction. Dynamic by design, uncompromising in execution, the Range Rover Sport was engineered for those rare individuals who demand the world and possess the conviction to claim it. When your time to lead arrives, you need a vehicle that rises to meet it. The Range Rover Sport. Exclusive offers available now. Explore further at RangeRover.com. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the 14500 use the ServiceNow AI platform.

0:43While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com.

1:29in a conversation here on the tennis podcast. He was happy to do that. We talked about his rise at the rankings. He got to just outside the world's top 20, playing Davis Cup for Great Britain. And of course, that incredible moment when he stood alongside Andy Murray during his final match as a tennis pro at the Olympics a couple of years ago in Paris. But it also covers the spectacular drops in ranking that Evans had, having his funding withdrawn, and getting banned for a year for taking cocaine. As I said, there were a lot of downs as well as ups and this is a very open interview. He doesn't duck anything and I hope you enjoy it.

2:11I should also say that this interview was done before we got news that he wouldn't be getting a wild card at the Queen's Club. He was disappointed, as you can probably imagine. You may have read that he said that it would have been a classy gesture had he been given a wild card, but wasn't to be. At the moment, he hasn't got a wildcard for Wimbledon either. Not for the main draw anyway. He's got one for the doubles but he wasn't on the initial list of wildcards for Wimbledon. There are still a couple of spaces to fill. He's hoping that he does get one of those too but if not, he'll be entering qualifying and trying to do it the hard way.

2:48Personally, I hope he gets one but either way, I'll be following his progress with great interest. His journey has been different fascinating and entertaining here's his story

3:10well Dan Evans welcome to the tennis podcast um it occurs to me that when this goes out you won't be a tennis player professionally in about a month from now yeah how's that feel no it feels I don't know really it's something new obviously I've been pretty injured the last year or so so it's not been not sort of lived the typical tennis tennis life and yeah it's been it's been it's been quite a cool year really just you know helping Henry out and it's been something different I've really enjoyed it to be honest this is Henry Searle a young British tennis player yeah I've enjoyed sort of looking at the game from a different point of view for the last four or five months when I haven't been able to play but yeah the last month or so I've been able to start practising again been able to do my normal work and it's been it's been good I've really enjoyed it the last month to be back playing and yeah I've been on the The last two weeks been on the clay.

4:25It's been pretty cool. Does it help a little bit maybe with the transition from player to post-player life? The fact that you've done a bit of coaching whilst still wanting to play in the future?

4:45Helping out has come about by accident. We were practising. And yeah, he just sort of, I was just helping a younger guy. And then I went to a few tournaments and it sort of happened naturally that, you know, things were working, how I sort of viewed tennis, he, I guess, liked. And yeah, it wasn't something I was planning on doing straight away. You know, I would have liked to have took some time off, but I'm really enjoying that. And yeah, I'm going to look after myself for the next two months of my own career. and try and get some wins, yeah. Yeah. When did you know that this was it? This was going to be the year?

5:32I just think like when you can't... I thought about it for a while, like last few years. I sort of started to see tennis a bit differently from a sort of different point of view. Yeah, sort of looking at the game from like the outside a bit more as a... not as a coach, but like in that sort of way. and yeah, the traveling had become a bit tedious, but it wasn't a bad, it wasn't a hard decision, or it wasn't like a, I didn't feel bad doing it, or feel, you know, like people, I'm losing tennis, I don't feel like I'm losing tennis, tennis will always sort of be just there in life, and I never saw it as a job, so that wasn't a big deal for me that I'll be stopping, because I think being a coach isn't a job either.

6:23Or staying in tennis isn't a tough job. It's an unbelievably good sport. It's treated me really well. I've enjoyed it. It doesn't feel a difficult decision. I'm sure I'll miss playing the big events, most of the Grand Slams, the other events I haven't been playing. I've not really missed, to be honest with you. and yeah you know I'm enjoying well I will enjoy a bit of retirement if you can call it that yeah I don't feel like I'm retiring it's sort of just moving on a bit it's it's weird isn't it being a professional athlete particularly in tennis I mean I know you play a lot of golf and they can play golf into the 60s you know but what are you 35 now yeah you've got a bit of gray in your beard there I can see yeah uh but you know it's it's it's young isn't it to stop doing what you've always done yeah like uh yeah life is long isn't it like i'm just i'm i'm you know you're old in tennis terms but you know my parents i mean they won't mind me saying are probably classed as old i'm not classed as old but people call you old in tennis um but that's you know i've never really struggled with normal life.

7:39I've always sort of kept my life away from tennis. Not private, but I've always kept that part of my life going, even when I've been a tennis player. And I think that's really helped me going, will help me going forwards into, again, I say retirement. It sounds like I'm about to go to an old people's home, But it's, yeah, again, it doesn't feel like I'm retiring. It just feels like I'm moving on to something else in tennis. And, you know, that's why I think tennis is, you know, a great thing to get into. You know, there's so many, not jobs, but things you can do in tennis after you stop your playing career.

8:26If you want to, I mean, I know a lot of players move away from the sport, but I don't see that I will. I think I'll stay in it and try and help the younger generation or whoever wants help. It's something I've always looked forward to doing. We're going to have a little talk about your career, highs and lows. There's quite a lot of them, both of them. I'm sure you haven't because this would be an egotistical thing to do potentially, but have you ever read your wikipedia page no it's quite a read i'm gonna read a bit of it to you right because i mean it it's there's an overview to start with daniel evidence born 23rd of may 1990s british professional tennis player has been ranked as high as 21 in the world in singles it's pretty good um and that was in august 2023 you you were 52 in doubles in 2021 and you're part of the 2015 davis cup winning team you've won four tight no you've reached four finals four atp finals and you won the titles at the murray river open and and in washington which i think everybody remembers that yeah that was a hell of a run um a lot of davis cup experiences a lot of olympic experiences uh early life it says you were born and grew up in the whole green area of Birmingham, your dad an electrician, your mum a nurse, two older sisters.

9:59Yeah. No tennis in the family? No, no, no tennis, no, no. So it says here you played squash with your dad and that you sort of fell into tennis a bit later on. Did you, was there a moment that you thought, oh, I like tennis or maybe I could actually be good at this? Not really. Yeah, my dad played squash and then, you know, I was just a kid who didn't want to be in the house. Obviously, there was none of, like, video games back then. So it was, I would sit in the house where my mum watched Coronation Street or go to the squash club with my dad. So, yeah, I was, mum let me go. Yeah, I probably wasn't the best parent in the world.

10:48I mean, late nights at a very young age. Yeah, you know, you'd play the team matches when they were having dinner after because back in the old days you played a match and then you'd go for food in the clubhouse. I'd be on the squash court with one of the other lads, one of the other sons, and yeah, and I played squash. But the club was squash, tennis, cricket. We played it all, but I was pretty lucky that one of the guy who was, he was like working for the Warwickshire LTA was best friends with a tennis coach. And they was up there and they sort of said like, there's a kid who can play squash, maybe have a look at him on the tennis court.

11:36And I just started like that. It wasn't, and yeah, I had a few lessons because I could play tennis because we played every sport. it wasn't like I'd never had lessons but so then started doing that and and then the the Warwickshire uh Warwickshire bloke who was uh the coach I never forget it he said I think you should maybe we're going to get someone else to have a look at it was John Hicks and Andrew Lewandowski come to Billsley of all places and I never forget it was like a trial and I was fucking like geez what is this and they sort of put me on the pathway to not the LTA pathway but like listen you're going to start you should start playing a bit and I did How old were you at this point?

12:31Graham Adams was coaching me so I reckon 10, 11 and then obviously I moved to the National Academy after that Loughborough with yeah so then it was like a natural progression that was sort of Graham was great he's just handed me over you know like a lot of coaches now you know keep their players but Graham was like no no like that's your natural progression and yeah didn't get in at the start Mark Taylor who's still coaching now, a good friend yeah I didn't get in at the start and he sort of said to the coach and I think you should take him and the coach wasn't really having it. And then I did all right in the summer and then the coach said, well, I think, yeah, you're probably right.

13:22Then I got into the National Academy that way. So you would be what, 12 or 13? 13 when we moved to Loughborough. It was... It's quite a big thing to do, isn't it? For a young lad. Probably is now, but back then I was just like, I don't have to go to school so much. Like it was... Like I just couldn't believe I was getting to play tennis so much. By then I was just, you know, not besotted by tennis, but like, you know, I couldn't believe I was getting a chance to be coached by these guys. Like, yeah, I was just loving it every minute. Did you know that you were good and maybe potentially could have a career in this good at this stage?

14:01I thought I was good. Like, I had no bones about that, but I wasn't very good, if that makes sense. like I had it's all relative isn't it yeah no I thought I was pretty good but I was pretty small I had a lot like I had a double handed back and then they changed me to a one hand it was like you know it was a bit mismatched I wasn't yeah but I I just loved it like you get to go to school for a few hours and then you were playing tennis non-stop and I was getting coached by like you know back then when you you know Leighton Alfred coached some top 100 players he was the head of the, I couldn't believe I was getting to go on court with this guy, like it's not like it is now, you know, the coaches are not of that calibre anymore in those positions, you know, dare I say it but that's just a fact, and you know, I was just like, this is unbelievable, and I was like three or four in the age group, and I started to just 16, like Mark Taylor just, you know threw everything into the to us like non-stop for hours uh the three of us it was me james rich and elliott chang i think i can't remember but he worked like his socks off like non-stop give us individuals when you know in the mornings it was you know you couldn't have had a better upbringing and in tennis like oh and you staying in in i lived with a host family uh right um and it was again like they were great Graham and Marilyn they were just yeah cool like as soon as I walked it was like the cupboards are yours it's your house and it was it was yeah you know like it wouldn't happen now let's be honest like there'd be too much red tape in the way for that to happen now but it was just like yeah you know you literally look forward to waking up in the morning you just got to play tennis it was it was unbelievable yeah so you've been living at home, you've gone there, what did your mum and dad make of all this?

16:09I mean, mum struggled a bit. Did it take a bit of convincing that this is a good idea? I don't think my dad did. I think he was thinking he'd get to play golf now. Wouldn't have to drive me places in the weekends at sort of the academy's job. I'm sure as parents they were, but like by that point I was hooked on tennis. I wanted to be a tennis player and you know, and let's not as you said they were nurse and electrician this was financial breathing space for them it was a chance for me to get looked after by the federation and I'm not sure listeners will know I'm sure some of them will but the tournaments are not are not done I'm sure they are now but you could play one week in Sunderland and next week you could be in you know Redbridge and Essex it wasn't there wasn't a swing like a geographical no exactly like that could have been done a bit better whoever was doing that let me tell you so like it was like one weekend might be up there and then the next is there or there wasn't weekends off when you even when you were 11 12 so then you know the academy would then that would be their responsibility then so of course my dad might come to a few of the tournaments still but you know they sort of get your weekends back and you know now you're an adult you know and the weekend's obviously unbelievable isn't it like but when you're 13 you haven't got a clue what a weekend is and your old man's dragging you around the country it's like so it's it was it was just yeah you know i couldn't have i couldn't have asked for a better tennis like upbringing education anything like that late and then yeah mark especially were unbelievable with me yeah so you you start your junior career you're getting entered into stuff the first entry in wikipedia is in 2006 the lawn tennis association withdrew him from the wimbledon junior tournament for being in his own words stupid on court what did you do was that junior tournament yeah I think it was Peter Finn who's actually the Wimbledon practice desk like coordinator now was it Queenwood I got my last code violation I was on a warning if I had any more what were you getting these for?

18:41probably swearing I imagine but yeah he gave me the last one pretty sure it was Peter and yeah they took like yeah they didn't let me play junior but like looking back now it's right like again that wouldn't happen now like they get away with murder kids now like you know nobody tells them off nobody especially the juniors the behaviours you know right up there with what they see on telly you know so looking back all of the you're obviously going to go for a few of my misdemeanours on court but whatever you know the the LTA did took away funding and I look back and it all helped me, to be honest, yeah.

19:20It's interesting. But the next year you broke through a bit in the juniors. You reached the quarterfinals of the US Open and the same at the Australian Open in 08. So you're starting to have some results. Yeah, I was doing all right, but I was still like... I could still feel I was missing something. Like I wasn't quite as good as the rest, you know. although even when you're young, you know, you think you've got a chance, but, you know, I was never, you know, I was always battling to win those matches. I was never really winning, if you look back. And, you know, I sort of felt that a bit even in juniors, and I was fine with that, you know, like I was under no illusions that it's about, you know, I sort of had an idea what was going to be ahead.

20:15was your size a part of that do you think or was it just I just wasn't I needed to learn my trade a bit I think my game style wasn't developed and stuff I had some things which was decent and then others just wasn't there yet I wasn't strong enough that's just part and parcel I think that's one of the hardest things for juniors now is to sort of realise where their game is at as a junior. But again, I think it's become really hard now because it's massively on results as juniors, selection processes. And that's, you know, in every sport, it's not just tennis, I think. But I was lucky, again, I go back to the people I had around me, they knew the time of day, they knew what they were doing with me, so it wasn't...

21:19I never felt under pressure to win or to lose. It was... I was... Yeah, I was sort of... I was told what was right, what was wrong, try, see how you get on, and then you move on. It wasn't like, no, you've got to win. There was other things out there than just winning and losing with the guys who were looking after me at the time. And, you know, if you actually look back, we had Matt Little as our fitness coach at that academy, which is, you know, he went on to train Andy for years. So we were really lucky in that sense. We, you know, I had really good people around me, even from the start of like juniors.

22:02You got a wild card at Queen's that year. That's the first time I met you. And you had... And I can still remember the phone call, where it was, who it was off. It was off Paul Anacorn. And I was just like, what is this? Like, I was obviously happy, but, you know, I was nowhere near ready. Like, and I was, I just couldn't, I couldn't, I never forget. I played with Feli Lopez on one of the days, practicing, and his serve was taking my racket out of my hand. And I was like, this isn't... Like, I sort of knew before I went on it was a bit of a problem. And then I played Malise, who was obviously really good on the grass.

22:46And, yeah, I mean, I don't know if I'd take it back that if I had my time again, I wouldn't play that match or you're never going to turn down a wild card. But, you know, I was nowhere near good enough to play that match. Why do you think they gave it to you? I think vote of confidence. Paul Anacone was really good with me. Again, when I talk about good people I had around, he was amazing to me. Yeah, I think there wasn't much else going on at that time. There were some tennis players, but I'm not sure I'd call them professional tennis players in Britain at that time. So I think they just thought, he's going to play there at some point.

23:30let's give him a shot at it and looking back they're probably right I played there a few times You were put on centre court I remember, it was 6-1-6-1 I thought it was 6-1-6 but ok, 1-1 might be alright and I still remember you smashing the ball over the clubhouse but everybody went on about that that happens at daily occurrence just because you're a wild card you can't show your emotion and I could never get my head around that everybody was going on and it was just like that's what kids do like it's normal and that's the point isn't it you were still were you 18? I was 18 like I couldn't like yeah I'd hardly practiced on the grass as well I come from juniors at French Ove it was like it was an amazing experience but it wasn't you know it wasn't one where I'd be like I look back I think, geez, that was a good experience.

24:31It was nice, but it wasn't like a career-changing moment. You know, like, oh, I've got the taste for that. You know, when you get the cliches, oh, that tournament gave me the taste to get there. You looked like you wanted to get out of there. And I did. Like, that's the actual truth. I wanted to be off the court. I knew pretty soon I couldn't win the match. So that was that. Yeah. I remember you had floppy blonde hair with a whitehead patterned, probably. Yeah. and uh yeah that's when i found out you were a villa fan but you know here we are all these years later so i'm kind of being that bad um so you've you've had that experience and you've gone to wimbledon um and a few weeks later you're suspended by the lta for being pictured in a nightclub the night before your doubles match at wimbledon yeah um what happened there well it was a it was sort of two occasions after that match at queens as i said at the start i still like to live pretty normally at that point even still and yeah we we went out for some drinks with friends after that match at queens i think it was at queens yeah and yeah we saw i i got caught, not caught, I don't know why I say get caught but like they found out that happened so I sort of got a bit of a light warning for that and yeah we was all staying, all the boys were staying at the University of Rahampton was the official hotel and it was terrible, it was like prison sales, whatever something I imagine prison sales are like and on the last night or second last night we had arranged to like go to the IBM party and sneak out.

26:30And at the start of the night, there was like eight of us who were going to sneak out. Well, in the end, it was only three. And the other guy was Dan Smethurst, who I was playing doubles with the next day. And he was the one who got us. They never had a picture of us. There's no chance they did. And I still to this day. But Dan Smethurst's performance under the hangover sort of got us, in my opinion, got us caught. But yeah, yeah, we shouldn't have gone out. But it's boys being boys, you know. We did what we did. And yeah, ironically, he didn't get banned and I did. Yeah, I mean, if you look back, there's a lot of headlines out there on the internet about this.

27:19How did you Something like that happens What are your conversations with your mum and dad like I mean do they think Oh well he's just a young lad I don't know I remember going I mean this is amazing When I got banned for that I drove home with My agent at the time Came to watch and Ian Taylor was in the car, the footballer and I sat in the car and I obviously didn't tell them but they came to watch so they had a driver for the day so I just jumped in the car back with them. It was like, and I told my dad when I got in, he didn't say anything. He was like, God, again. It's like, it wasn't, it's not a big deal.

28:08Like, okay, I shouldn't have gone out but the grand scheme of things, it's not a massive, like it's irresponsible because you're playing at Wimbledon. I get it. But if you look how we were, you can't hold kids up in the University of Roehampton for two weeks, playing Roehampton, playing Wimbledon. You've got to go to bed at 10 and you'd have a coach at the end of the corridor sitting on a chair. You can't, like, what do you think kids are going to do? Like, especially some from up north who, you know, a bit rough and ready. It was just what we wanted to do. And no one was stopping us doing that after two weeks.

28:48And at that time, Roger Draper was in charge of the LTA. And you mentioned Paul Anacone. He brought in some seriously expensive coaches, Anacone, Peter Lundgren, God rest his soul, Brad Gilbert, several others. And they had become pretty hard if they saw anything. I remember there were bans handed out for things that were on social media and stuff like that at the time. Of course, like, some of the stuff... But, again, I'm not saying they shouldn't have banned me, but that's just what kids do. And that's fine. If you do it, then ban them, that's fine. I'm not saying the punishment was severe, but that is what kids are going to do.

29:35Like, we're in London doing nothing every night. So what would you do if you were in charge? well, they now stay in a proper hotel. Like, it's all done properly now. Like, the qualies, the main draw, everything. It was just that was the situation at the time. But, again, like, that's part of your tennis career, like, doing stuff like... We were doing it in the French Open as well. Like, we've done it everywhere, but we just didn't get caught there. Like, that's the... And I'm sure there's coaches out there who took juniors away and they went out, but all over the world, of course there is. It's exactly the same principle, but no one there watching them.

30:24I suppose that is one of the things about being British and Wimbledon and all that sort of thing is everything is held to a certain standard, I suppose, and it might not necessarily be in a non-Grand Slam nation or where the microscope isn't? The bottom line is we shouldn't have gone out. That's the bottom line. We were playing the next day at the best tournament in the world. Juniors, men's, women, mixed doubles, whatever you want to call it. Whatever event is the best tournament to play at. But we did and we got our punishment. Well, I did. So the next year you get in some results. you get called into the Davis Cup team.

31:08It's quite interesting because, I mean, you've ended up having some pretty amazing memories from Davis Cup over the years, but your first couple were tough, like particularly the one in 2010 against Lithuania away. And, you know, I mean, we got, Britain got, they lost a Euro-African Zone 2 match and you were pretty green and you were sort of playing a lad, well I mean I don't think I've heard of him since but like was that a tough was that a tough experience the toughest thing the experience was tough I think the toughest thing about that was the panic I felt on the side like I could feel the tension of the LTA that everything if we lost this match I could it was like It was at boiling point.

32:04You could feel it. And I'll never forget it. The guy had a terrible forehand. And one of the pieces of advice just hit to the forehand. This was John Lloyd, wasn't it? I remember him saying to me. And it wasn't like, for Flossie at the time, who had been a good tennis player, that's a simple bit of advice. But for a guy who wasn't, as you say, it was green, That wasn't that simple for me to do. You just hit to the guy's forehand. The needed, like, and this is not a, what's the word? This isn't me saying he was wrong in what, he was right in what he was saying, but it wasn't, just wasn't that simple.

32:50You know, there was obviously so much going on in my head. You know, a lot going on on the side. You know, everybody knew what happened. You could feel this while you were on the court. Yeah, yeah, yeah. it was it was apparent like what was going to happen like we knew if people lost if we lost this match there was yeah like it was it was just obvious like and and again in the airport like when we were leaving the next day like nobody was talking like it was just and there was delegates there from the LTA like there always is and that was sort of like my first experience I was like jeez what like you know I didn't know that people from the LTA came to watch Davis Cup abroad like I was like president etc etc and it was yeah that was my biggest overriding feeling there was like the panic I could feel from just a lot of British people who were there the dignitaries like LTA staff you could feel and I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure I'm not I could you know you could feel geez we're losing this and i mean the head you know the headlines were horrific like because this i think again the point is that roger draper had put together this incredibly expensive package of coaches and suddenly britain is in what the equivalent of division three four and they're right but that was where britain was at the time in tennis like that's how ignorant we were as a nation like we think and how arrogant are we to think we should go over to lithuania away in davis cup and just roll them over that's how arrogant we were and how clueless we were as a country at that time and that's the bottom line is you go to any away match you look now when we go away play davis cup who did they play they played norway the other week and they're celebrating it like we've won the World Cup.

34:49That's how far we've come to realise Davis Cup, when you play away, it's an absolute nails match, regardless who you play. They played absolutely nobody in Norway. It was borderline impossible to lose. But yet we're celebrating like, and that's how far, that is what, how hard Davis Cup is. But that's where we were as a tennis nation at the time. If you look back, we had the arrogance. We've got some good coaches and say we'll win this, we'll roll them up. You've still got to play the game. And you look now how many upsets there are. If you actually look back, it wasn't that big of an upset. To beat me at the time wasn't a massive thing and I can't even remember who played the other match.

35:31But I know Barankis played, who was a really good player at the time. So it wasn't a great moment for British tennis, but there was plenty of arrogance about it as well to think we should be over there. If I look back now and beat those guys, there's an away tie, there's an away fans, quick indoor court. It wasn't as simple as they made it. A couple of years later, you end up back in the Davis Cup team and you had some really good results. You had a win over Cleezan. Martin Cleezan, very good player. You had the one against Evgeny Donskoy, he was 80 in the world in the next tie and that that helped britain to to set up a a world group playoff against um croatia which which you were also at i was there too but i mean like these were these were these the second one of those i think the first one andy was there with you and the second one he wasn't and it was kind of like you're so low down he you've got a i think he was saying if if if they get us to a point and i'll join back up again and that's what he did in that Croatia playoff yeah but I mean were you did you have any reservations about playing again after the experience you'd had against Lithuania I really enjoyed like the team event like all the players like there was nothing wrong with the team environment or the staff on the team that was all good it was just a situation we was in at that time wasn't wasn't ideal and I think as you said like it's just compounded that roger had brought in big names it made it a headline it really wasn't you know and again you go back there was plenty of arrogance about it to think we should just roll these guys so i was i was cool with it there was a new captain um you know i'd seen they'd done really good work they'd won a lot of matches when i wasn't there because i wasn't good enough um and yeah i i started playing and yeah i really enjoyed like the start with leon it was it was really good um and i had some good results like that that's you know that's the main thing is if you can sort of add add some points on the board for the team you feel you feel that it's all worth it and that's what what davis cook was always about really just helping the team.

38:05And yeah, it's been an unbelievable sort of part of what my career and probably the best part, to be honest, those weeks were the best part. Today's show is brought to you by Vanguard. To all the financial advisors listening, let's talk bonds for a minute. Capturing value in fixed income isn't easy. Bond markets are massive, murky, and let's be real, lots of firms throw a couple of flashy funds your way and call it a day, but not Vanguard. Vanguard bonds are institutional quality. Institutional quality isn't a tagline. It's a commitment to your clients. It means top grade products across the board.

38:45Vanguard's been in the game a long time and their scale gives them a serious edge. They're able to invest across all kinds of sectors, maturities and geographies, which means they can spot and act on opportunities that others might miss. So if you're looking to give your clients consistent results year in and year out, go see the record for yourself at vanguard.com forward slash audio. That's vanguard.com forward slash audio. All investing is subject to risk. Vanguard Marketing Corporation Distributor.

39:32creators show up consistently on every feed and build a brand that brings in clients, without spending their whole week making content. Rated the number one AI video platform for small businesses on G2 with the most realistic AI avatars in the industry. Trusted by a community of over 30 million people and 85 % of the fortune 100, and built to work in over 175 languages, so you can reach your audience in theirs. Here's the wild part. Record yourself for just 15 seconds, and HeyGen builds an AI avatar that makes professional videos for you on demand, so you can post everywhere your audience is, as yourself, without filming every time.

40:06Your first three videos are free at heygen.com slash pod. That's H-E-Y-G-E-N dot com slash P-O-D. There's never been a better time to get outside and experience the benefits of nature. Discover nearby trails and explore the outdoors with all trails. Download the free app today and find your outside

40:31And I mean it seemed as though it was feeding in To what you would go on to do on the tour I mean the big breakthrough moment really I think Was the US Open run you had in 2013 Yeah You qualified, you beat Kane Ishikori, you beat Bernard Tomic I mean these are top players I mean the next year Nishikori went and reached the final of that tournament and you lost that brilliant match against Tommy Robredo. I mean, my sense, I was commentating on these matches for BBC Radio and there was real interest in you at that time. Could you sense that at all? No, not really. You know, I was just loving playing in New York.

41:16It was like I didn't have a coach at the time. I was there alone. I think Leon was actually helping me, went at the US Open. I just was there with a fitness coach who I'd sort of picked up along the way on the swing of the challengers who was actually helping James Ward. And yeah, it just happened. And I felt it after the tournament when I was sort of 130, like the, I don't want to say the LTA, but the men's side were pushing me a bit more then. They sort of give me a coach. I wouldn't say we rushed, but I was, I'd been there for like eight weeks. We went to Croatia. Then I had to go to Asia and I come home from Asia.

42:10I was just, I didn't want to go there. And I sort of said that, but still then like professionalism wasn't where it should be, you know, like, so I think Dave was a bit worried if I was home. So it wasn't an easy sort of trajectory, if you like, from 1.30 to 20. Well, I didn't get there, basically. I didn't get there until I was 25, and I was 23 then. Did you think you'd cracked it a bit after that? No, no, no. No, I didn't. I wanted to, but it was top 100 to me back then was still so hard. Like it was really like a tough thing to get into. It wasn't like, no, no, I'll get there. It was like, no, no, when you get there, that's going to be some achievement.

43:02You know, like I wasn't. But, you know, because back then there was such a big thing on top 100 in Britain. It was like, you know, no one had really done it apart from Andy, Greg, Tim. Martin Lee had done it and only just James Ward hadn't done it by then yeah it was like and you know people of course people who work in that men's team they want you to do it as well it's not it's not for them they want it for you you know like which that's great but it's not all did you feel the pressure a bit? no there was like I just felt a bit rushed in that way. It was like rather than, you know, just set a plan out.

43:54And there's no luck. I didn't look back and have any hard feelings about it. It is what it was. And then, yeah, it become a thing. Like, oh, God. And then I dropped a bit and then. Well, you dropped a bit. I mean, a year and a half later, you're 772 in the world. Yeah. That's a bit. so what I mean Tim Hemman had a pop at you around about then as well um so I think you know what I obviously had a bit of money then and I hadn't had much I obviously drank too much did whatever else uh went out a lot but that was you know I was sharing what I had like I loved it like it was with my mates it wasn't so you were going out with your mates and you were picking up the tab and like of course like no not just picking up but I was sharing like I wanted the good times with them and like it wasn't we didn't have the chance before you know like were you finding it a bit hard to be like right Dan Evans professional tennis player this is what you have to do all the time and you're not you know you're not supposed to do any of this I didn't I found it hard to be professional that was hard I found it hard to be professional day in day there's no doubt about that and I was only 23 still pretty young and then yeah and then probably you know after that it becomes a bit of a habit you stop training I think I had a bit of like a knee issue but I sort of probably used that a bit too much you know and then yeah and then you get you just drop like if you don't play tennis you drop that's the bottom line Yeah, I mean, the fluctuations in your ranking are incredible when you look at them.

45:40If you actually look at the graph of the years, I mean, I've not seen too many like that. Ernest Goulbis is one who's had a few like that, but not many. 2016, you win 29 out of 32 matches, and you actually end that year 66 in the world. So you've gone from 772 in the world. You've gone 1.30 at the end of 2013 to 7.72 mid-2015, back into 66 in the world at the end of 2016. So, I mean, you're basically proving that when you're playing often, the level's there. Is there a moment that something clicked there? Obviously, again, I was really lucky that in America I was there alone and I made the semis, I think, of Knoxville Challenger and Liam Brodie was there with Mark Hilton and dare I say it, they was having a few issues, I think.

46:43And they left on the semis day and I'd known Hilton coached me before and I ended up winning that week and it was right at the end of the season. Anyway, they split and then I think Leon said, to me would you like to try with Hiltz and Hiltz lived in Nottingham I didn't want to be down in London and so Hiltz drove every day from Nottingham to to Prairie and we practiced and there was just one condition that we practiced on Saturday that was it and he's he said like listen I don't care what time it is but we practice on the Saturday like six days a week you're not five days a week and I still sit here today and that is and I'm sure that extra day got me to top 100 like that is what got me there and we did it of course there were still some days where I didn't turn up there'd be the odd phone call a bit too late into the night where I I can't come tomorrow yeah I've got carried away or whatever but what was Hilt's way of handling you?

48:00well he got a day off no no we had chats about it and it was like if it come too and far between it was like come on but yeah we travelled loads yeah we just basically packed the suitcase and went and that was that and yeah if we was home we practised Saturday every it didn't matter what it was when it was 7 till 9 whatever it was yeah we did that and that's it really sort of like set me onto a good sort of bit of momentum and and how to like I was training then six days a week and then you know you eliminate Friday night you've got to be practicing Saturday you know you become and that's when I become a professional like proper professional I would say it's like putting a routine in that you then can't the temptations are removed a bit aren't they yeah and that that was like that's when I really learned like I started traveling with fitness I really invested in like my own career then and I was paying hilts myself I was paying the fitness and that's what really changed like the my career I think that's when I you know I think yeah that just sort of just pushed me like you paying your own bills.

49:26It makes things a lot different to somebody else picking up the tab. And I think that's a big thing now. Obviously, a lot of people are getting their tabs picked up. You think that's a problem? Yeah, I think we're desperate for players, but I'm not sure all players are doing the correct things, as I wasn't and I lost that you know Leon was hard on me he was great for me but and that's that's what I think got me there do you tell young players do you ever tell them about your experiences no I mean unless I'm asked but it's not it's not for me to tell them like they've yeah it's times have changed you know like I loved it when Andy would speak to me Tim would speak to me like but the young lads and the young girls are not it's not they're not like it's not like that anymore you know like it's they're all into themselves their coaches are into themselves it's it's very different now yeah interesting so I mean actually in that spell you had I mean you mentioned you had your good US Open run in 2030 you had another one in 2016 you beat Zverev yeah along the way I mean he was young but it was he was a hell of a talent and then you had match point in the third round against Stan Wawrinka and he goes and wins the tournament after that I don't know when you don't strike me as a regrets kind of person too much about moments but do you have, is there any that stick out and you think, oh imagine if I'd have won that one that match yeah the 2013 the Robredo match you know I was young but again I wasn't really professional I didn't do the totally the right things in that US Open you know like I didn't know so that that was it's funny that's come up because I was saying that to somebody the other day that you never know when your best chance is and that was my best chance like he then beat Federer Federer was I think hurt it was like you know that could easily be quarter finals before you know it like that was sort of everybody goes on about the stand one but I don't think that I was in the point in the match points.

51:51I can't remember, but I don't regret losing to Stan. I don't remember it being a big opportunity. I don't remember I had a short ball and I didn't take it on or anything like that, so it couldn't have been. But, yeah, all those matches or what you lose and playing the slams, they're just so good at the time, but when you go back and shut the door of the hotel that night, it's dead silence and that's why you then go training a week later or two weeks. You want the atmosphere again. That's what you play for. It's not the points or the money. When you're out there in that moment, you can't explain that to anyone.

52:43You can't buy that. It's just impossible to buy. and that's what I think sometimes players especially forget that don't enjoy it when they're out there sometimes you just beat in a good match and I was against Stan I remember he was just a bit better in the big points but it was I'll never forget the atmosphere it was nuts out there I can't tell anybody how that feels because they just never know and that's that's what part of the job you you love isn't it yeah um so i mean after that you you start 2017 incredibly well yeah you you i always remember being in australia you beat marion chilech you beat bernard tommick again i remember you having a better back and forth with him over his dad um you reached the last 16 i mean this is a great run um i remember a press comments you did um when you were talking about kevin peterson and running into him in a casino didn't he blow you off when you tried to get a photo yeah i wasn't it was walking out of a chinese in the casino like in the complex and yeah he he obviously just walked straight past me when i asked for an order a picture actually as you do yeah um but you know so this is fourth round and suddenly you're in the top 50 in the world you know i mean basically you've made it you're playing all the biggest tournaments in the world you're earning good money and i mean i think as you would later prove when you if you're good enough and you get inside the top 50 you can kind of stay there with winning a certain number of matches can't you you know and that's what you did i mean you had some good weeks some not so good weeks but you you became a top 50 player in the world but you've already done that in 2017 and then this is what your wikipedia says evans was banned from playing professional tennis due to testing positive for cocaine in april 2017 evans claims that he took a relatively small amount of cocaine out of competition but but that some permitted medication he was taking was then contaminated by the cocaine because he accidentally put the leftover cocaine in the pocket of his washback, thus testing positive in competition.

55:02Evans was eligible to return to the professional circuit on 24th April 2018, having completed a one-year ban. What happened? Yeah, I mean, exactly what it said. Yeah, as I said, I lived. Why? I mean, again, you've made it, Dan. You've made it. You've all this journey, going down to 700 in the world, bands, you know, going away to Loughborough, doing all this stuff, winning big matches, getting inside the world's top 50. You've made it. Why? You must have known that that was a possibility. No, I mean, listen, that wasn't, of course that wasn't like the first incident of that as I said it was you know I wasn't professional at that point I was professional and I went to an event and all of that stuff had stopped the drinking everything pretty much and yeah I made a mistake I took obviously took it and yeah and I was you can't call yourself unlucky but I went to a tournament a few days later and yeah I tested and I tested positive and that's all there was to it really it was as it writes it's not what's the word it's not it's obviously regrettable but that's what it is isn't it that's what happened it's not you can't look back and think what if it happened you know I'm not I'm not going to blame a lot of people tried to blame other people for that people you're around but that's an easy way out isn't it to blame your mates nobody made me do it nobody you know a lot of people at the time was like remove yourself from these people but it was nothing like that it was on me you know and that's that was the worst part about it is people were trying to blame other people about it and it wasn't you know that was having a go at me for who I was hanging around with and it wasn't it was nothing to do with that and then obviously your parents is the hardest one but what what was that I mean where were you when you had to have that conversation and what was that like Well, I just told my dad, you know, by this point, you know, I was an adult, you know, I was 25.

57:47I just went in the house and told him it was a conversation I had. What did he say? he carried on pressure pressure washing the patio after I told him that's that's what he did yeah he didn't say a word just and then sort of come in the house and we yeah but there was there's so much like it's hard to explain there's so much which goes into drugs case that's not just black and white of I've been banned you're not banned straight away you're suspended you don't know how long so it wasn't like listen I've been banned for a year I need to tell you it was like listen this has happened I don't know how long it's going to be it was there was there was other there was you know eyes to dark, tees to cross you know it wasn't but it was bad I knew it was bad straight away were you scared?

58:49no I'm not I wasn't scared I was I was I knew I was in trouble but I wasn't tennis isn't life that's one thing but you've cracked it you're making all this money being on the telly doesn't doesn't do it for me my family, my mates do it for me that was never my motivator was never being famous, I've never wanted to be famous I've never wanted to it wasn't a, you know like some people's life is about their image, Instagram, money, that's never... I just loved winning, that was it. It wasn't... So I wasn't scared about it, I was just... I was more worried for other people than myself. It wasn't...

59:38Which people? Like, my mum and dad, like, obviously, you know, they wasn't... I think dad had retired, you know, like, it was... So, you know, I was making plenty of money, so I had other dependents at that point. It wasn't just me. That was the worst thing. But, yeah, it was... Your parents are not bothered about that stuff in the end. They're bothered about their son, do you know what I mean? That was the biggest thing. You know, they're not bothered if I took drugs. OK, everybody shouldn't be taking drugs. They bothered about their son as a person at the end of it all. And then once the cloud of red mist, if they got it, went, it was like, right, how's things going to carry on?

1:00:34Yeah, and I'd obviously just... I'd just started, you know, with Alia at that point, so it wasn't an easy sort of... This is your wife. Yeah, it wasn't an easy sort of in for her at the time. It was like six months in, so I was like, here we go. But everybody stood by me, my mates. Yeah. You know, I would never want my child to do what I did, but everybody would react the same as my parents did. It's not about tennis at the end of it. It's like, you know, there's obviously other scarring from failing a drugs test. You know, it was more than tennis in the end. It wasn't about tennis, you know, like it was, you know, obviously the obvious question is, have you got a problem with that sort of stuff?

1:01:30That was an obvious question everybody started asking. And I was like, geez, like that isn't the issue. Like it was a mistake. and then then once that blows over you've got again I'll say it's just it's your son at the end of the day it's not and my mates were good everybody was good like it was it was all fine I remember when you announced it we were at that press conference in the hotel in London I came to it and then you sort of just gave a statement and then you left that was something like I regret I did like I was asked to do that and I think I was ill-advised to do that, in my opinion. Because?

1:02:12I just don't think I should have done it. A statement would have done it. Like, I was... Yeah, like, it just wasn't... It was more... It wasn't such a big thing. People were making it, like, a massive thing. It was a big thing, but it wasn't, like... I wasn't that big of a name to be going up and doing a press conference about it. It was... You know, I remember walking into the room, I was like, what am I doing here? But weren't you like the British number two? Yeah, but being the British number two doesn't mean anything. You just failed the drugs test, you're banned. Yeah, but it's not... Yeah, I get I'm banned, but what you don't...

1:02:54I've got in my right to say, no, I don't need to talk to anybody. But I was asked to do it. I was sort of advised to do it okay it's fronting up but I just don't think it was that necessary at the time it wasn't you know I could have if you think about I could have released a statement and moved on Wimbledon was coming it wouldn't have been spoke about but that that sound bite I remember it it was all over the BBC news like me saying what I failed for it was just it just didn't in the end it didn't sit well with me like some people might disagree or agree but in the end I just thought it it was a bit of a PR thing for a few other people rather than you you disappeared pretty much certainly from view and you were I don't think you were allowed to use any facilities any tennis facilities or any coaching yeah what did you do for the next year not a lot really yeah just lived lived normal life I said earlier were you scared were you worried that maybe you weren't going to get back to where you were not really my biggest worry was if I would get the help to get back up because if you remember in that I don't really know what happened but do you remember the ITF brought out ITF rankings yeah and I didn't have an ITF obviously and I didn't have an ATP ranking so I was like well when I started to get back I was like I'm going to need some help and it wasn't forthcoming at the start and I had to have a few stern conversations with a few people about what I'd done for them in Davis Cup in other things and Simon Timpson I think was the man at the time and I remember and I don't care who he works for now I was sat with him and he looked at me and he said you've got no chance mate of getting back up there he put me in a bracket with two other players and I won't name the other two players and I said no no because I asked for some help in coach and he was at the NC I never got it he said no no this isn't going to work for you we're not going to support you I'll put you in this same sort of bracket as these other two players one was an older player and one was a lady actually and the lady's still playing and I looked at him and I said okay and I said well in three months Simon you'll be you'll be gone from this job and this is just a stepping stone so don't worry about it and in three months he was gone.

1:05:41AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into that's why it's no surprise that more than 85 percent of the 14500 use the Service Now AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows, and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com. One second, you're enjoying your day off. The next, your phone buzzes. A window's been broken at home. You're miles away.

1:06:24In one second, everything can change. That's why ADT's professionally installed security systems monitor your home 24-7. They're backed by the most company-operated monitoring centers in the industry, so you're always supported during an emergency. When every second counts, count on ADT. Visit ADT.com to learn more.

1:07:13So, and then over the grass, I did, that was March, I think I come back, was that right? Yeah, you came back in April 2018, one year after the failed test. I mean, I think, was there a bit of relief that it was one year? Because there was some talk about it being two at one time. Yeah, yeah, and no, like, I was, obviously now I was massively hard done by, by the, how it was all how the recreational drug thing worked in tennis now I think well I had actually a solicitor or lawyer rang me like years after informed me I think it was three months now for recreational drug in tennis I don't know if that's right but it was a random call I don't know how he even got my number and yes just it was weird and i was like okay that was the end of the conversation but yeah at the time it was a bit yeah geez if it's two years i was in a bit of trouble i think and then yeah just i think i did pretty good over the grass that year you got you you come back in a first round qualifying match in glasgow yeah you played ed cory yeah um and you won a couple of matches i mean you know to given it idea of the difference in your world at this point you you won 885 euros for that tournament and you know 18 months earlier you'd won 100 grand for reaching the fourth round of the australian open so you know your world's a bit different when you when you arrived to to glasgow for that first match can you remember anybody's reaction to you like i mean that was like, when I was off, I had like, it was more a bit about what people were gonna, like, at that time, I don't think anybody had ever been banned for what I'd been banned for.

1:09:12So it was a bit how they would react to it, because it wasn't like,

1:09:20people were sort of insinuating that this could have helped me a lot of people and I was like trust me there's zero chance that can help you play tennis and that was sort of the when I was off I was thinking do they think I was cheating and like that was more so people were wondering whether it was performance enhancing a lot of people were sort of insinuating a bit of that And obviously at that point, Twitter was sort of coming into itself. And obviously I was bored. I'd see stuff, I was getting tweeted. And that was more of the... But everybody was pretty good, to be honest. I had a few run-ins with a few players, but no one to really write home about.

1:10:10Do you think... You say people were insinuating that maybe it helped you in a performance enhancing way obviously obviously you're saying not but do you think it maybe helped you in terms of this is the moment the penny drops because i look at your career thereafter you got yourself back inside the top 50 a year and a half after this return and you stayed there for four and a half years i mean like you are a proper professional then yeah like doing when i I was 25 with hilts. I was a proper professional. I obviously made a massive mistake. But after that, that is your last chance. I've not vowed, that's nonsense.

1:11:00But I'd said to myself, this is it. If you don't get there, but give everything you've got to get back and see how you go. And again, I had an unbelievable help. Dave Falgate was unbelievable. He got me back there.

1:11:21So, yeah, like, I just... I got back there and... But even when I started back, I felt... It wasn't, like, such a big jump, like, if that makes sense. Like, I think I lost to Chardy in the final or semi-final of Serbiton and I was like, I should have won that. And he was maybe 50, 60, and he'd been playing well, and I was like, and people were saying, no, I have some perspective, and I was like, no, that's not right what you're saying, I'm right here, I probably could have won that match. And then I lost in the final to Dimonor, I think, in Nottingham, and I played really well that week. And I think I made quarters of Queen's the week after, and I played again or first I can't remember but I won a match or two and I played like tennis was like I was playing really good then and I felt like I'm doing alright but then you go on the hard court I hadn't done a bunch of fitness because I was playing you know on the grasses and then you sort of move to a real surface you know like one you've got to be really fit and more people can play and then I think the summer wasn't a great summer I don't think I was in qualies of the US I think I won Vancouver but I was like I was still in between being back in the top 100 or qualies and the summer sort of was quite difficult I didn't do that great but then I think I had a good end to the year and I did good in Australia I think I qualified and then I felt I was pretty much back up and running and like we were saying, once you get inside that top 50 and you're in the main tour events where there's a lot of points, you haven't got to win quite as many matches to stay there well that's the thing, you're getting obviously more bang for your buck with a win will get you 50 points where you've got to win 5 in a challenger or whatever it was and that was you know, when I was getting older as well it wasn't so easy to keep winning a bunch of matches but look I'm pleased to say we've reached the end of the period of your Wikipedia page where it's all doom and gloom and there's the ups and downs have gone and you're you're now you're now having a really great run of results yeah win some lose some but you've also I mean there's some of these things here you beat Novak Djokovic in Monte Carlo you know you you you played a really fun match against Roger Federer at the Australian Open you you played Carlos Alcaraz a few times and you won a set against him.

1:14:01You played Yannick Sinner. You were set up and in a tiebreak against him. I mean, these are amazing moments, aren't they? I always remember you coming off after beating Djokovic and saying you were slightly pissed off about him keeping you waiting before you went on and it helped you. Do you remember much about that? Yeah, like it's one of my pet peeves with the better players is they like to be late a lot to the call for the match. It's like some ego thing, which, you know, if you're late, it's just rude, isn't it? But that was all that was about. But to be honest, all of the guys you mentioned were all good, like on court.

1:14:50Yeah, I enjoyed playing all of them. It was, you know, not a pleasure. It sounds like I was on there for, you know, not to win but it's I think what people don't understand is or people don't like to say it but it's the truth is that when you're 30 in the world you don't win a bunch or 40 in the world you don't and playing the world number one or world number two or Rafa it's your day out that is the fact I don't care what anybody says of course you're going on the court to win but the bottom line is you're probably not so you've got to enjoy that moment to play him or Fed or whoever like I think I knew my place on the chessboard pretty pretty well and I think I took those moments in more than some probably did I was gonna say I mean when you're playing Federer and you you had two tie-break sets I remember in Australia yeah I mean people were so into that match because I guess the style you play and even Federer I think said it's almost like playing me.

1:15:54Yeah. You know, which, did you, can you have any moments in there? I mean, this is a guy you would have watched when you were coming up, when you think, oh my God, I'm playing Roger Federer and I'm doing these shows. No, I'm really like, again, like I just, I took them for how they were, like with me, like, I spent a bit of time around Roger training and practicing and... Well, he took a bit of a... Yeah, he was like... He took a shine to you, didn't he? He invited you. just a normal fella like he wasn't he wasn't like walking around in gold slippers or a gold play it was like he turned up in a yeah he was a normal fella and like that's how I took him on the court I worked my nuts off and tried as hard as I could and that was it like I I wasn't scared to say come on against him or but I was never rude to like those guys or or people on the court full start but I just enjoyed my games against them it was like you know I tried and I didn't beat I beat one of them that was it and it was it was just it was a good day out I enjoyed it and I remember it as that but I enjoyed playing all of them like it wasn't that's that's what you play tennis for that's what I think people don't get is if you're 50 or 30 like you you don't get to play on the top court every week.

1:17:22I could make semi-finals of a tournament and not play on the centre court of a tournament. That's not the fact, but people think what they see on tennis TV, Sky Sports, but it's not that. There's two other courts out there where a man and his dog might be watching, but that is the fact of it. And so when you get your chance to play in front of those guys, those guys on the big court, you've got to go out there, enjoy it. there's no point in it's not easier said than done but freezing and not taking your chance, that's your chance to perform it's your chance to show everyone what you've got I realise they're all greats and styles make matches but which one of them did you find the hardest?

1:18:11I get asked this so much I think the one you couldn't beat when he was on or you didn't get a match was Roger. Like, you just didn't play tennis. It was like, the ball's there, it's gone past you, he's at the net. That was... But if you were playing good, and, like, I played Djokovic this year in Wimbledon, or last year in Wimbledon, and I was playing good, and I didn't stand... And I was playing really good, and he was just way better. And it was like, God. So that was, like, it was different. and then you play Rafa and he's just relentless. So it's like, I think that's what makes them all so good.

1:18:53They're all so different to each other and like styles make fights, don't they? You, I remember when you were playing Francis Tiafoe in Vienna in late 2023 and you 4-1 up and your calf wins. And it was quite shocking to watch it at the time. I think you were quite shocked that it happened to you. I don't think anybody who's done their calf, I think could understand that. Looking back, do you think that that was kind of the beginning of the end for you? Yeah, that was really difficult because I sort of did my soleus as well, which is like that retracted and my calf went. So it was like nip and tuck if I needed an operation and that took forever.

1:19:42And I was playing really good then. Yeah, it was probably the best tennis I'd played through the summer. And then the Davis Cup in Manchester, I was playing. Like, I just, just everything was good. And then, obviously, that happened. And it just took forever to, like, and I still have the problem now. Like, that's what's still sort of been niggling away. And sort of got back and, you know, obviously my ranking drop, I played the Olympics. And I was like, you know, like, need one more push, really try it. And then I broke my wrists sort of last year in China with sort of like, God. And for someone who had never been injured, really, it was like, come on, like two in a row here.

1:20:34So that was like sort of the nail in the coffin, I think. The wrist was, I mean, breaking your wrist on it. I know it was my left wrist but you can't do anything it was like I felt I was really playing good again then so that was like I sort of lost a bit of motivation then and you know I didn't I couldn't really do much it was just that was pretty difficult the wrist was probably like the that was probably what sort of said like come on this or that's that if you can get through to Wimbledon if you can keep going and the body holds up and you know obviously this year I'll need a wild card to Wimbledon if they give me one I'll finish there but if not it won't be and that was sort of my plan was to get through to to there and try and get like I said you know not have a day out but you know embrace it a few more times try and get a few wins and yeah say bye you mentioned that Olympics run yeah I think a lot of people that saw that will maybe have that as one of the memories of you as a player um what was it like for you because I mean you had all those matches where you were match points down you're alongside Andy it's his farewell uh that was probably like probably the best part I'd say probably one of the best moments of my career the Olympics it was something I was a bit ignorant to before with tennis in the Olympics.

1:22:11Because you didn't play them before, did you? I didn't play two of them, yeah. I was actually going to play the one in Tokyo, but I got COVID and I didn't play in Rio. But I wish now I had, yeah. But definitely the time in Paris was, yeah, it was a career highlight by miles. The atmosphere was different. it was like there wasn't tennis fans if that makes sense it was like sports fans who didn't you know understand so much of tennis when to what you're cheering for if that makes sense they were just supporting Britain or Belgium or USA and obviously Andy's you get more support when you're with Andy you know he's a not just a British sporting icon he's a you know world renowned athlete and And that was, yeah, playing with him was, winning the two matches was something that were mental.

1:23:11It was amazing, yeah. What was he like to be around at that time? And obviously I know you've known him for many years, but that is an incredibly intimate thing to be on the court with a guy who has given so much to the sport. And he was, unlike you, he seemed to be finding it quite hard to stop, really. Like he seemed as though it was hurting him to have to think, I think he's at peace now. We had a great interview with him last year and he seems in a good place now, but he was struggling for years, wasn't he, to try to keep going. And there you are, the only person on this court on your side.

1:23:48I think the weirdest thing about that is every day was close to his last one, which is like... We were sharing the same physio that week because that was our team. And he'd be like, he's done this for years. And it was a bit eerie. This might be the last time he ever gets strapped. And it was like, God, you're going to be the one going out with him. It was a bit weird that he couldn't then play again. It was like, yeah. And then after, when we lost, it was, yeah, it was like, I don't know. We all sort of just went and sat in the cafe where we all eat at Roland Garros, but it's not a cafe for the Olympics.

1:24:43It was just like a seating area. So we sort of just sat there and just like everybody just sort of said, well done. And it was like, that's over. It was strange, really. like that he couldn't play tennis. Like I'm saying couldn't play, but didn't. But that was going to be it. And it was like, yeah. And like, yeah, it was, it was, it was hard. It took a lot after to, to sort of get back into normal routine. It was like the Olympic village, all of the, it was, it was a bit like I imagined being in the big brother house, you know, like you've got to get back into normal, like the normal world. but yeah you know I play in those matches with him it was it was probably the best the best part of my career what's he like on court to be a doubles partner with I mean like I'm thinking he's amazing I know what he's like as a player but as a as a bloke what's he like when the little chats you've got to have he was so positive like the whole time and like he would say sorry a lot and I'd be like what are you saying sorry for here you know like you're sort of setting us up a lot of the match and then he'd miss one and he'd say stop saying sorry was a bit of like but yeah a few times you know because you're playing with him it doesn't mean you can't help him is sort of what I took from it you know sometimes you'd get a bit frustrated and I'd be like just it's all right like next next point and like you think to yourself geez what are you saying here you're saying this to Andy and he's not shy coming forwards to tell someone to be quiet is he so yeah no it was he was an amazing partner to be honest and just how we won the matches it ended up being being unbelievable yeah and yeah I was just thinking back like it was incredible how we won and how it all happened and he was unbelievably grateful as well which that's something I want ever forget you.

1:26:50I was going to say has it given you a bit of a bond do you think that? No I mean I don't know like we spoke a lot anyway but he sent me a nice note at the end and that's I'd say he was happy that I was on the court. You went to his retirement party didn't you? Yeah yeah we went to his retirement party which was an amazing party evening so yeah it was pretty good. It was a good night? It was for me, yeah. A few of us had had a few too many, well not too many but had a few drinks, yeah. You did carry on playing as a singles player. You had that incredible US Open match against Hashinov. Longest US Open match in history.

1:27:41Were you aware that it was getting silly at the time? No, because I was obviously full of down and fall of down deciding yeah and i was just trying to you know hang hang in really like but he was i could sort of see he was you know flagging a bit but yeah i didn't know and then when i actually got back to the locker or when i did the interview with uh i think it was carthy did my interview she actually told me that it was and you know by then I knew I'd been on a long match and I just wanted to get off the court and get out of there so it was only until like the next evening and stuff you're seeing stuff online and yeah I had like however many notifications or whatever and just yeah sort of but again like you're in the tournament still so like you almost by the end you almost think were you shut up about yesterday like you know like no because you've got to play like we can talk about this after the tournament because you still any tennis player tell you like you don't think about what you've just done you look ahead and then yeah so it was like it was good but it was in the end I won the next match but it was a bit of a distraction you know like I didn't I didn't really want I did like I said at the start I didn't really want to be in that sort of limelight or I just wanted to win my next match you know so it was it was difficult but it was it was something I'm you know obviously pretty proud of yeah you uh you played a couple of matches last year won some matches at Queensland Eastbourne I remember you getting quite emotional in the interviews afterwards what was that well I just like I'd obviously been through like just the injury and stuff and I just wasn't sure if I was going to be able to to keep winning on the tour you know and I was obviously playing on the challenger tour I was trying to get back and you know I'd obviously say not not I wasn't fortunate to get wild cards into Queens and Eastbourne but there was other options I would imagine and other people probably saying, you know, he's 35, should he be getting one?

1:30:10You know, his rankings is where it is. And when, like I said, like it's just, for me, winning a tennis match and then sitting on the bike after is like the two best things you can do as a professional. And you speak to your team after you've won. They're like moments when you stop playing, you never get back. And that's like, you know, I was never like fussed about, you know, walking out into the middle of the court saying thanks to the crowd. That didn't really do it for me. You know, I know people loved to take it in. And, you know, during the match, really like did it for me. And then like playing, winning points, the reaction.

1:30:56And then after with your team was the thing which sort of, you know, ticked my boxes. you know like it was that's what it's about is sitting the eight minutes on the bike after you think like all the stress not stress that's the wrong word but all of like the pressure cooker of being out there all the decisions you've had to make and all the bad ones all the good ones you can talk about with with your team it's like that's like the best thing about the tennis year you've um you've had a few things to say about doubles over the years yeah um 2019 you said uh jamie murray thinks we should be celebrating six pairs of doubles players inside the main draw of a grand slam so we're celebrating people who didn't make it at singles and people who didn't have the attitude to work hard enough to make it in the singles game um jamie replied they're lazy comments to make it's ill-informed and dumb really to question the reason that we're on the double story is because we don't work hard enough as the single guys it's just total nonsense I've been playing the tour since 07 traveling the world working my ass off uh stay at the top of the game and making a living for myself to come from someone who really hasn't applied himself as much as he should and really has made a hash of his career with his decision making um I imagine you've you sorted that out quite soon afterwards yeah I mean again whenever you might comment about about a sport or a part of a sport, certain people might take it personally, but it wasn't a personal attack on anybody.

1:32:37It was just, that was my opinion. And I stand by a lot of what I said is, yeah, it was, again, it's all got to be in context. it was against what we're celebrating as singles to what we celebrate for doubles and the doubles guys have done unbelievably well I'll be the first to take my hat off one of my best friends is Neil Skrupski I've got no issues with the doubles guys but first and foremost we need to start getting singles guys in the top 100 not number one in the world at doubles that's a great achievement it really is and they make a great living for themselves now. But as I always say, you play single.

1:33:29We all grew up to be singles players and they make an amazing living after. But they didn't start playing doubles, they started playing singles. And that was all my... The comments about they don't work hard enough probably wasn't correctly in part. but maybe some of them after their singles career where they wasn't working so hard then decided to work very hard at doubles would probably be more the truth. I mean, you just said yourself they make very good livings for themselves. And I know you fancy yourself as a doubles player, right? You think you should have been picked in Davis Cup doubles teams at times.

1:34:12Why don't you become a doubles player now? Because I don't want to live that life. I don't want to be last on I don't want to wait around all day that isn't what I want to do it isn't for me but and I'll say this to Jamie Murray it's funny that me and Jamie had this sort of two and fourth because Jamie Murray is the best doubles player this country has ever produced never mind his record whoever you like to say Julian Cash Lloyd Glasswell whoever whoever Joe Salisbury Jamie Murray is the best doubles player because how I rate a doubles player is what they can do at Davis Cup. In front of 15 ,000, 10 ,000, 4 ,000, he did it.

1:34:57And that is why when he stopped, I was, in my opinion, the next best option. Not Joe Salisbury, not Neil. Well, Neil was my partner. Neil and Jamie were unbelievable at doubles at Davis Cup. they just got it. And in Davies' Cup, you have to get it. And that is why I had the opinions. What do you mean, get it? You have to be able to play for your country. That is how you are judged in my book. Like perform when the pressure's on. Not on the tour, because half the time on the tour, it's not, and they will think differently, of course. But how I judge a good doubles player is how they play in Davies' Cup.

1:35:41And that is why, for me, as I said, it's strange not strange but it's ironic that Jamie went back at me because I actually think he is the best one we've ever had because of the Davis Cup and how he performed the Davis Cup and that's how I sort of value my doubles players and that's why I put myself forward to and I put myself forward many times but I never got picked but when I did it was in the toughest of conditions and I duly come forward and played in um columbia in altitude but that's that's what you did for your country isn't it did you ever talk to jamie like separately about any of this i get no no i've never like me and jamie get on unbelievably well like we're always joking around about stuff but yeah no never had the conversation how um i mean you've you've said you said what like you can't replace the moment on the court and the moment with your team afterward so what does the future hold for you because you've got hopefully a lot of living to do not replace I think like replace is the wrong word like I said at the start it's not like tennis is just going to be different for me like I love watching tennis I love yeah I love everything about tennis it's but it's I think a lot if you see yourself if you see yourself helping people which I like to think people think I was quite generous in life throughout my career I like to help like it's not some people are not that way inclined which is perfectly fine they're more about themselves looking after I've never been that way I've always wanted to you know sort of be around people help people like if I'm asked I'll give my opinion and I think that's what coaching's about if or coaching or whatever it may be is about and I think I look forward to it but if that's what I'd like to do at the minute but that can change pretty quickly you know like you know I really enjoy being at home I might end up being a club coach and does his hours from 7 till 12 and plays golf in the afternoon.

1:38:08It doesn't mean because you've been a good tennis player you have to be a performance coach. I hate that word, performance coach, but you know what I mean. Like a coach on the tour, for the time being, it's going to be after Wimbledon, it's going to be helping Henry Searle try and crack the top 100. But at some point, I'll need a rest. And that's just normal. Well, that's it because, I mean, you know coaching is traveling isn't it yeah and you've done a lot of that yeah um do you think he he could reach the top 100 do you think i think he's got the game yeah and but i'm lucky like the last year has not been so much traveling you know it's been it's been stop start with you know various things and that's that's why i sort of you know the last month and well last few weeks and then hopefully next month or two, I'll give everything I've got and try and get myself into a decent position and finish off well.

1:39:09But, you know, if I'm not in a position to play, I won't play, you know. Yeah. Just on the coaching again, I mean, could you imagine yourself in the future having like either being on the tour with a player and would that give you a buzz? Would that be what you'd like? Or would you rather have, I don't know, some sort of academy or something like that that is yours? What is it you want? What do you think you'll want? I think helping the British guys get to where they should be is more of a motivation, if that makes sense. Do you think there are things that you would suggest or could offer that maybe aren't being done at the moment that would get them to where they, inverted commas, should be?

1:39:59well where a lot of them should be is is a hundred is i think the coaching in this country now for a for a few years has been not going in the right direction you know so why is that i don't know what that is but you know like obviously there's other reasons club coaching you can earn more money you know coaching players at that ranking you don't earn great money let's let's be honest you have to do it for the love and trying to get them there so I just think there's things I've learnt along the way which could help I don't think it's that complicated to get to top 100 is my honest take on it what's the key then?

1:40:48it's hard work isn't it? hard work, keep your game style a lot of practice if you want to get better at something you have to practice that sport it's pretty simple if you want your forehand to get better you have to hit more forehands you have to practice it more it's not going upstairs to look at some data about what the last match where you didn't really try that hard it's pretty basic to get to a certain level is my opinion on the game and know my player but he won't be doing all the other stuff until he does A, B and C, right? I suppose you have the... I didn't look at one piece of data in my whole career.

1:41:35Really? Never wore a heart rate monitor, never wore any of it, and I did all right. It's really not that complicated. You can make it complicated, but you can make it pretty simple as well.

1:41:53so it's nearly 20 it's 20 years since your first junior Wimbledon 20 years as a final final point how would you like people to think of Dan Evans in the future I mean I hope I tried hard on court yeah I think that's all you can the bottom line that's all you can do in tennis is try like it again I know it sounds simple but if you try hard and you lose what else can you do and that's what I think I did most days whenever I played at most tournaments I think I mean of course everybody has their off days and might throw the towel in every now and then but yeah I think I worked pretty hard and yeah I had the best thing about tennis is the life it gives all it's been you know like you've travelled everywhere towards the end I used to say like you know some some days like you'll we'll want to come back to this place but we'll have to pay like no it's true you know like when you're sat in a hotel room and you're like I can't be bothered to go out and you think in 10 years you'll want to come back to Tokyo but you're going to have to pay two tickets to get on the plane plus your hotel you used to go come on let's go out and walk a bit and that's what like it's it's an unbelievable job like to be out in all these cities New York like you're going there for free and getting paid it's like there's not a lot to be down about and that was that was the best thing I enjoyed it yeah I enjoyed like okay you have bad days jeez but I enjoyed pretty much everything about the tour I didn't enjoy much some of the players I didn't enjoy on the tour some of them didn't enjoy me but that's work colleagues for you isn't it well it's been fun watching following along thank you for the years and thank you for your time and well really do wish you the best cheers

1:44:15hey i'm paige de sorbo from giggly squad and i want to talk to you about arm and hammer hardball cat litter because when it comes to fighting cat odor they are the champs like what smell the litter box was my biggest fear when i got my kitty daphne but since i started using arm and hammer cat litter i don't notice any cat smell i always feel confident about anyone stopping by whether it's my friends or my family or even people in my building. So for my fellow cat parents, be guest ready with Arm & Hammer Hardball Cat Litter. Find it now at Walmart or Amazon. Hey, it's Hannah and Paige from Giggly Squad.

1:44:50We all know finding the perfect pet treat for your cat can be as tricky as dating in the city, but we've got you. Try Temptations Cat Treats, America's number one cat treat brand. Their Temptations Crunchy Cat treats are the crunchy outside soft inside treat your cat will love butter and daphne are obsessed plus they're 100 complete and balanced and under two calories per treat seriously nine out of ten cats find temptations treats irresistible make bonding easier with temptations cat treats cats can't resist