Davis Cup Final - Cobolli clinches cup, is he Italy’s next big star?

0:00Ready to experience something new? AllTrails helps you find your next hike. Whether you're looking for something nearby or planning a trip, read reviews from real people like you to choose your trail and know what to expect. You can also download the map in case service gets spotty. Plan and experience your next hike with AllTrails, the app for exploring the outdoors. Download it today and find your outside.

0:32Matt Roberts: AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the Fortune 500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com.

1:16Hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast coming to you live tonight on the final day of the tennis season in the aftermath of Italy retaining the Davis Cup. We are all Caballi guys now. He was Italy's hero again. Coming from a set and a breakdown to beat Jaume Munar and seal the Italian victory. That was after Matteo Berrettini comfortably wrapped up his win over Pablo Carreño Busta in the first rubber,

1:46Matt Roberts: which was very much in keeping with the pattern of Italy's victories all week long in Bologna on their march to this third successive Davis Cup title. Matt Roberts, how was it to be there? It was pretty special, I have to say. Who'd have thought home and away Davis Cup finals really work?

2:09Catherine Whitaker: And the noise in that arena was absolutely spine-tingling, really. I mean, just very, very special. Berrettini led them out as he has done all week. And then it went a bit flat because Caballi was a bit flat to start with. I'm sure we'll talk much more about that. But then the crescendo and wall of noise as he was as he was winning it was, yeah, really, really moving. And I've just come from the two press conferences, which were, you know, as different in vibes as as you would expect. Spain very much trying to take positives. And I think there are a lot of positives for them to take. And Italy, I think, you know, several glasses of champagne down and giggly and just having a great time, which is what you want from the final press conference of the year.

3:01Yeah, for everyone that's been waiting for us since 8pm to go live, those Italian glasses of champagne are the reason we weren't live at 8pm. We can allow that. David, how does it feel to be the guy that has always believed in Flavio Caballi?

3:20David Law: Yeah, and am I allowed to claim credit for the pre-Pre-Davies Cup show when I said that Italy might well win it even without Sinner and Mazzetti? Or should we all remember actually that a day later when I studied it all I said Czechia would win? Probably the latter. But actually, on Caballi, I do feel like this is really an important moment for him. We can't read the future, but I do think this kid has something special. I've always thought that, apart from that moment where I think, was he the guy who lost to Nadal in Barcelona that time? And that was a moment that I did think, oh, I'm not sure.

4:04David Law: but then you know the same happened to Verrettini against Federer at Wimbledon look at the careers these guys have put together I think it's okay to be a bit starstruck to be a bit rabbit in headlights you know and then gather yourself regroup and actually in the case of Caballi I feel like build your career with one block at a time you know he's got amazing athleticism He's got a brilliant baseline game. He's so fast. And now he's starting to really learn how to just keep on winning. And I think that's really cool that he's doing what he's doing. It's funny, isn't it? Because a couple of Caballi's matches today and obviously in that semifinal against Belgium, like right down to the wire, that Zizi Berg's match could have gone the other way.

4:57It feels like there are so many sliding doors with those two matches. And yet, on paper, the story of Italy's victory at this Davis Cup is pretty straightforward.

5:07Matt Roberts: They didn't lose a match. They didn't need to deploy their excellent doubles team. The singles players got the job done each and every time. And yet that's so far from the story.

5:19Catherine Whitaker: I was drawing a David-Caballi comparison in my mind as Caballi...

5:26David Law: Oh, I'm up for that.

5:28Catherine Whitaker: As Kabbali came out cold, it reminded me of what you said, David, about your Freshers' Week experience, which was you did the big night out, you went big, you ripped your shirt off in the street, maybe, maybe not, and then people were like, you've got to come back and do this again. And I felt like Kabbali was experiencing that kind of vibe, the sort of 17, 15-sized tie-break hangover, you know, like the emotions. There was nowhere to go after that. It was just so electric. And that's kind of what I asked to ask a body about in the press conference just now that challenge that he had there. And because I remembered at the US Open, he won a final set tiebreak against Brooksby and he was high and then he lost his next match.

6:12Catherine Whitaker: And that was the closest comparison I could think of in my head. And he said that this was different because of the team, you know, and he said, I couldn't let it be about me. I just had to keep thinking of the team. And I asked Matteo Berrettini what it was like watching Flavio Caballi try and get it done, because we know all about their friendship. And he had a great line that he got called for doping testing after his singles. So he said, OK, I know I'm going to miss 20 minutes of Caballi's match. That'll be fine. He said, I checked my phone. And he lost the first set. It was an absolute disaster.

6:50Catherine Whitaker: And then I and then I checked my phone again and I had a text from Lorenzo Sonnego and Sonnego said, get out here. We need you. And so Berrettini makes the journey out onto court. And it was late in the first set and that was happening. And it did feel like once he was there and once Caballi was able to just get into the match a little bit more, suddenly he was OK again. And he was thinking about the team and he was thinking about, you know, trying to really put a bow on this week. Because it would have been a shame if he'd had that tremendous high and then ended up not winning the singles. So I think that's a hell of an effort from Caballi to go again and back it up and find a spark in this match and turn it around and start playing it on his terms again.

7:37Catherine Whitaker: It was very, very special. He needs to try and tempt Matteo Berrettini into retirement so that he can become his full-time vibes guy. Is that what you're saying? Yes. To be able to translate the guy that he's been this week into his individual career. He needs Matteo Berrettini there. I think I might need Matteo Berrettini there. Like, what an incredible... Yeah, that's such a lovely story.

8:10David, today's Kabbali-Munar match, there's quite a lot to get into. Yeah.

8:19Matt Roberts: What was your take on it as a tennis match?

8:20David Law: Fascinating, really, because, I mean, And Munar played out of his mind in that first set, didn't he? I mean, I was in a sort of Berrettini position. I wasn't doing a doping test, but I only went away for a few minutes just to sort of make the kids some lunch and watch the first 20 minutes of season three, episode one of Traitors, you know, with the kids over dinner. And the next thing I know, he's lost the first set 6-1 as Kabbali. But honestly, I mean, I know he came out cold, but that was a lot to do with Munar, from what I could see. And in fact, all the way through the second set, he'd won their previous meeting, Munar, and he's more unpredictable than the majority of the baseline players of his mould, in a way.

9:11David Law: You can easily put him down as just a baseliner. But actually, I think his patterns, his spin, they cause problems for players who are just not used to where the ball's going to go next, really. You see, the serve volley he pulled off on the first match point. I mean, that was the point of the tournament. I didn't know he could do that. And he was doing it in the first set as well. I was like, is Munnar about to serve volley Spain to the Davis Cup title? What is going on? Yeah. I mean, I wasn't sure if I, you know, I can't claim to have watched every match of Jaume Munar's career. Maybe he's doing this all the time, but I didn't know that was stuff that Jaume Munar could do.

9:56David Law: No, it was amazing to witness. And really, Kabbali, he just had to do it incrementally. He had to dig in and kind of find his way back into the match, kind of the way he found his way back into his whole year after that terrible start to it. And I think maybe there are some parallels to draw there. He's kind of grown up this year. I mean, he's so boyish, isn't he? He's such a young-looking guy. And I think he's... From what you were telling me, Matt, about your experience of him as trying to be the Italian number one this week in the absence of Sinner and Mazzetti, he comes across as young. You know, he's trying to figure out how to be this leader in a way.

10:43David Law: And he passed with flying colours. He really did. But in terms of the actual match, he's worked his way back into it. And I do think Munar made a big mistake by getting chippy with the crowd and getting pissed off and letting people know that he was annoyed at them because they're just going to do it more. and this is not the first time. This is a guy who did the same in front of the Parisian crowd against Artifice in one of the most memorable matches of the year and he lost that one as well. So, you know, I'm all for it for fun, but for his sake, I don't think it's working too well. Yeah, unless you're Novak Djokovic, it's a risky old game to play, that one, isn't it?

11:33Yeah, I think so. And it wasn't totally clear to me. You know, I was up in the stands pretty much at the back of the stadium where the press seats were here. It wasn't totally clear to me what he did that really annoyed the Italian crowds.

11:51Catherine Whitaker: It seemed to be something to do with a neck cord that I think Kabbali struck a forehand and the neck cord took it long. And I think Munal really celebrated it. and then there was a close line call and he seemed to really celebrate that. And they just got on his back. And you're right, that was a real turning point in the match because it changed the energy inside the stadium as much as anything. I actually thought Munar quite quickly refocused and then didn't get back into it with the crowd kind of as the match went on. But he did get passive again. You know, Catherine, this was something you mentioned about what happened to him in that feast match.

12:31Catherine Whitaker: I thought it happened to him again today. And look, it's easier said than done, right? He's got to win this match. And, you know, he'd been playing out of his mind for the first set and a bit of this one, playing a game style that I think he has sort of shown before, but not quite to that level. It was fantastic from Munar. And I think maybe some of your natural tendencies are going to creep in under stress in that environment. And he just got a little bit passive. And I think that really allowed Kabali to start unleashing. And, you know, when you see stills of tennis players, they're so often off the ground when they're hitting a ground stroke.

13:11And actually, that can be quite hard to tell that that's happening when you're watching it live. With Kabali, it's extremely obvious. You kind of notice it, the way he throws himself into these shots.

13:23Catherine Whitaker: It's really quite something to watch live. That's kind of the thing that stands out to me the most watching him, these stinging ground strokes, particularly the forehand, the way he leaps into them. And he was just doing that more and more. And he kept it up. And that's what impressed me. Because then once he'd leveled it, it might have been him that got tight. And maybe Munar could have been able to become the aggressor again. But Kabbali just kept pushing. And I was so impressed. Because, yeah, going back to that press conference David said right at the start of the week when he was asked, are you going to be the leader?

13:58Catherine Whitaker: and he really didn't take the bait. He said, no, we're all the leader. I thought, oh dear, that doesn't give Guy who's going to come out and win three singles matches for his country. But God, did he prove me wrong. He was awesome. And he was pleased that in the two big matches he's had, he played his best tennis in the big moments. That was something that he really stressed. Hannah thought she detected some captaincy aggro between Valandri and Ferrer. I really hope she was right and not just teasing me because that sounds fabulous. I didn't see any myself. Matt, can you confirm either way? I mean, the Spanish team played down all aggro.

14:43You know, I asked about the crowds

14:48Catherine Whitaker: and Munar said he thought the crowd was great. He thought it was absolutely fine. He loved it. And I asked Ferrer what his advice was to Munar in that moment. Did you try and tell him to settle down? And actually Ferrer said he thought the crowd was gentlemanly was the word he used and he didn't see any issue with it at all. Maybe that was making an extra effort not to sound like sort of sour grapes in defeat. I don't know. But to be honest, they didn't...

15:21David Law: Did you think they were gentlemanly? It wouldn't have been the word I would have used. You've seen a few Davis Cup crowds over the last few years. Who wants a Davis Cup crowd to be gentlemen? I never thought it crossed the line. That's what I'm getting at I suppose really is, you know. Have you seen one that's crossed the line? That you can think of? You've been a few too, Catherine. Yeah, probably.

15:54I mean, I haven't been to that many of the you know of the home and away ties right um and it's tended to be the crowds i've tended to experience have been very pro their own team and that that's what this one was but just with a little bit of booing but i i didn't feel like it was crossing the line to be honest i i i thought it was great really was for air annoyed with muna well that's what i was trying

16:25Catherine Whitaker: to get at that's what i was trying to ask him about you know do you think he shouldn't have done that at all and not engaged was was this in the press conference with was we not sat there yeah he just wasn't he just wasn't prepared to he just wasn't prepared to go there at all did you in the in the moment both of you both watching on tv and in the stadium might actually It'd been easier to detect on TV, David, with the close-ups and everything. Did you think there was irritation from Ferrer towards Moonheart for some of his choices?

17:01David Law: I think it would have been... My sense was that he knew this wasn't the best way to be going about it and he was trying to keep his mind on the job. There was definitely a lot of looking, trying to make eye contact and get him to focus, which I think is absolutely the right thing to do. You know, he knew there was potential, I think, there for Munar to completely tailspin, you know, and just feel victimised and feel like he's going to give them some back. And that's not going to get you with the actual result at the end of the day. You might feel good in the second that you've given them some back, but it's going to get worse.

17:40David Law: And so I sensed that he was trying really hard to do his job and keep him focused. There was a nice little exchange between Volandri and Ferreira, I felt, at the net, and a little hand slap between them as they're fighting hard. They're competing hard as captains, and yet I felt there was still real mutual respect at the same time, which is just where I want it to be. I like a bit of needle, for sure, and a bit of atmos between two teams, but I also really appreciate, as hard as they're both fighting, that there is a sort of decency about them. So, no, I think that is Munar. I don't think you're going to change him.

18:29I think you've got to try to manage him.

18:32Matt Roberts: There's a bit of edge there, isn't there?

18:33David Law: There is edge, yeah, and it's part of what makes him so good, I think. He is hard, and I do think he can get in an opponent's mind too. I think that that can help him sometimes. But he can end up self-destructing. I mean, like I said, he lost to Fies. And I know it's not the only reason he lost to Fies, but he did lose to him. He then lost to today. So I'd be curious to know, had he not had those outbursts, whether the result would have been any different. But I think that that's a little unfair, really, to Caballi in this moment. I think that he won that match, ultimately. I think he wrestled it, just about wrestled it off Munar.

19:14David Law: Incredible, really. I feel like we should give Matteo Berrettini some more flowers. I know that his match wasn't the exciting one to talk about. In fact, none of his matches really were this week. Straight sets and not a lot of jeopardy against Pablo Carreño Busta, but that's probably why he deserves for us to talk about him a little bit more. tell me other things he said in the press conference Matt that will probably make me cry I feel like Matteo Berrettini is just that kind of guy isn't he makes you feel things especially on a moment like this it was actually Valandri who sort of had the line of the press conference right at the start

19:55Catherine Whitaker: saying that I didn't cry for the first two but I cried for this one you know in terms of comparing the Davis Cup experiences that he's had as a winning captain over the last three years. And, you know, I think it's probably obvious that this one was quite different to the others. You know, it was at home for starters and the emotions were therefore, I think, that much more heightened and they didn't have Yannick Sinner to call upon. So, you know, I think it was different, this one. So I sort of put that to Berrettini because obviously he'd been part of the team that won last year and, you know, agonisingly not able to be part of the team that won in 2023 because he was injured.

20:39Catherine Whitaker: So I sort of asked him to explain the experiences, and he said he used last year's – sorry, he used the disappointment of not playing in 2023 as his motivation for last year. You know, I think it was a sort of personal redemption arc, really, for him last year in terms of getting back and being a playing member of the team. That was his experience last year. whereas he said this one this one became motivation again for him but during the middle of the season when he was injured and not able to play in that summer on sort of his best injured again on his best surfaces really you know he missed them you know the sort of natural surfaces this year and he said then he targeted Davis Cup and he was told by Volandri and by I think the federation you will be part of the Davis Cup team if you're fit and sort of raring to go.

21:33Catherine Whitaker: Like, we believe in you. We've seen what you can do. So he absolutely made that his goal to be here for Davis Cup. And, you know, Sonnego's ranked higher than him. You know, like, it's not like they're naturally using their number, you know, the next in the ranking. Also, Darderi is ranked higher than him, you know, and he's not even here. But it's Berrettini who's their guy.

21:56Matt Roberts: I only process this today, And that's because it only really occurred to me today to sort of to even think about whether Berrettini was the natural choice. Because like, of course, you pick Berrettini, but a significantly higher ranked guy with significant, you know, Sonaga's had a couple of good runs in slams this year. Quarterfinals in Australia, another fourth round. Like he's got big match experience. he's sat there on the sidelines the whole week while a guy ranked more than 20 places below him is chosen ahead of him. And that's not even something that's particularly raising eyebrows or feels particularly bold from Filippo Flandry, nor does it seem something that Lorenzo Sonego is remotely annoyed about.

22:48And I think even if Berrettini had lost, maybe I'm wrong, But I don't think anyone would really have been going, oh, you made the wrong pick. Well, you should have picked Sonnego. No chance.

22:59David Law: No chance. I was thinking back to the chat I had with him at Wimbledon when he was just trying to be part of Wimbledon. You know, he just didn't want to give up on a Wimbledon. And he was clearly not fit. And I felt very sorry for him. And I mean, I think he lost in four sets, something like that, in that first round of that Wimbledon. and it did go through my mind that I wonder whether we've seen him almost for the last time at this level because I'm not sure his body's just going to be able to withstand it. And it's been a stop-start, hasn't it, all the way through since then. And even in the practice stuff that was going on this week, you were worried about him.

23:44David Law: So for him to come through those three matches and to win today, I mean, I think that's great for him. And he played seriously well, didn't he? I mean, he's still got it. If his body can hold up, he can still perform at this level.

24:05Matt Roberts: Was it Austria they played in the first time? His first match, I was concerned about him fitness-wise. It was a convincing win, but there was a golfing class between him and his opponent. And, yeah, it still didn't occur to me to think, why are you playing the injured number 58 in the world ahead of the fully fit number 36 in the world who's just sat there being a cheerleader? Like, of course you play Matteo Bertini if he's putting his hand up in the Davis Cup.

24:38David Law: It would have been tough to have played Mazzetti ahead of him, to be honest, the way things have ended up going. and also I was thinking

24:46Catherine Whitaker: you know if Sinner were there would they have played Berrettini still in the number two ahead of Caballi potentially even like you know like they would have had some real selection headaches there because you know as they say they always say this team is long is their expression there's so many possible players it is remarkable that they've just won the Davis Cup without their two best players. I mean, just crazy. And I know the way the draw fell, I don't think they played a top 30 player or certainly top 20 player. I think they had quite a kind path there. You know, there were, you know, Zverev was here and Mensik was here.

25:39Catherine Whitaker: You know, there was some, and Lehechka, There were some bigger names here that they didn't have to meet. And, you know, but you just sort of think they would have still sort of risen to it because Kabbali and Berrettini did show us something very special this week.

25:55Matt Roberts: It makes sense. It feels right for Italy to be the Davis Cup champions again because they are the force in men's tennis. This is not an accident. You know, with all of their best players, they could have won this thing several times over. Like, they are such an incredible force in men's tennis. You could fill three or four Davis Cup squads, each of which could probably at least have a chance of making the finals with Italian men alone. Of course, you know, they've been winning the Billie Jean King Cup as well. but they are is it too much to say they're creating a dynasty? Surely not. I mean No

26:44Catherine Whitaker: Three for three? Look there's a great there's a great line that they're the first non-Grand Slam nation to win the Billie Jean King Cup and the Davis Cup in the same season on multiple occasions it's quite a sort of wordy stat but they've done it in back-to-back years now winning the beligian king cup and the davis cup and the other nations to have done that are the u.s and australia and australia did it in the 60s and 70s and you know when tennis just looked so different you know like that there wasn't the depth that there is now in terms of the other nations and the u.s last did it in 1990 and okay i think they have been helped by the change of format of these competitions i think it is easier now to win multiple davis cups in a row So you have, you know, it's just less of an undertaking.

27:36Catherine Whitaker: But we shouldn't take away what that says about the remarkable depth that they have, you know, particularly on the men's side, as you said, so many players. And on the women's side as well, they've got real commitment out of Jasmine Paolini, obviously. And her improvement has allowed them to become Billie Jean King Cup champions. But she's been well backed up, whether it be by Cocciaretto or Bronzetti kind of in different years and Irani in the doubles. That's it. They've got doubles players as well. You know, so many teams maybe have a good doubles pair and nothing else, or they might have a good number one and nothing else, or they might have sort of strength and depth, but not, but no one really special.

28:16Catherine Whitaker: So they're, so the number one position isn't great. It's, they've got it all. They've got one of the best players in the world. They've got doubles teams. They've got the depth, like they have absolutely everything. And now they have the Davis cup finals at home as well. And it, you know, that word you mentioned, dynasty, it really does feel like it's going to take a hell of an effort no matter what Italian team they come with to these Davis Cup finals for someone to beat them. Because they're going to come with a strong team because they don't have a weak team. So, you know. Yeah, I mean, they could come and win it next year, Matt, with a player that we haven't currently heard of.

28:51Like every Grand Slam, new Italians emerge. Yeah. I've actually just looked up the world junior rankings to see if the pipeline, if the production line is continuing. They've got the world number five boys player, Jacopo Vasemi.

29:10Catherine Whitaker: I thought you were going to say Jacopo Berrettini for a very brief second. When I saw the name Jacopo, I did think of Jacopo Berrettini. Bless him. Speaking of family members, Caballi's dad being on the Italian coaching team and being there courtside. Matt, watching on the broadcast, we had constant cutaways to Flavio Caballi's dad and that was tugging at my heartstrings. He was in the unenviable position of having to be professional because he's there in a professional capacity and presumably being employed to be professional, but it's also his son playing the biggest match of his life. And Italians, obviously, you know, they wear all their emotions.

29:59So I was, yeah, I was feeling it through the TV screen.

30:04Catherine Whitaker: And I think his mum was here as well. She was certainly here the other day during the time. Yes, he said basically everybody he knew was here. Yeah, his brother. Yeah. Yeah, girlfriend. Yeah, there's a footballer who plays for Roma, I think, Eduardo Bove, I want to say, who was, you know, because Caballi was a very good footballer growing up, you know, and I think is quite integrated in that world as well in terms of, I think, you know, he's quite close to a lot of the Italian footballers, especially the Rome players, because he's a big fan. And, yeah, I think one of their stars was here and, you know, they're very close.

30:47So, yeah, like he's very popular, Flavio Caballi.

30:52Catherine Whitaker: You can tell like everyone is just drawn to him. So it's a special quality he's got.

31:00David Law: Today's show is brought to you by Vanguard. To all the financial advisors listening, let's talk bonds for a minute. Capturing value in fixed income isn't easy. Bond markets are massive, murky, and let's be real, lots of firms throw a couple of flashy funds your way and call it a day. but not Vanguard. Vanguard bonds are institutional quality. Institutional quality isn't a tagline, it's a commitment to your clients. It means top grade products across the board. Vanguard's been in the game a long time and their scale gives them a serious edge. They're able to invest across all kinds of sectors, maturities and geographies, which means they can spot and act on opportunities that others might miss.

31:44David Law: So if you're looking to give your clients consistent results year in and year out, go see the record for yourself at vanguard.com forward slash audio. That's vanguard.com forward slash audio. All investing is subject to risk. Vanguard Marketing Corporation Distributor.

32:17Bombas is styles for whatever you enjoy. You can run in Bombas, lounge in Bombas, dress them up, dress them down, but always give back in Bombas. Because with every item purchased, another is donated. Bombas, comfort worth calling for. Go to bombas.com slash audio and use code audio for 20 % off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com and use code audio. As a small business owner, you're the CEO, the marketing team, and the customer service rep all at once. I was recently talking to a shop owner who told me their worst nightmare isn't a slow day. It's the vanishing act. It's that moment you're inches away from a deadline and the Wi-Fi just disappears.

32:51We've all felt that pit in our stomach when the connection flares up right when it matters most. Your business is only as strong as your connection. AT &T Business is the reliable provider built for that exact brand of hustle. So you can stay focused on the work that builds your legacy. Powered by AT &T Business. Built to work. Get AT &T Business at business.att.com.

33:19I know this is a silly hypothetical. In fact, it's hypothetical on two separate levels. So bear with me. If Yannick Sinner had played, would he have played singles and doubles?

33:33Matt Roberts: Would Balele and Vavasori have been divided in order to maximise the Yannick Sinner?

33:41Catherine Whitaker: I mean, it's a huge hypothetical because they won in singles without Yannick Sinner. They were definitely winning in singles if he was here. I mean, right. I know. But I just I want to know. I suppose there's no need for Volandri ever to disclose any of this.

33:57Matt Roberts: I mean, it's like Alcaraz in the Alcaraz, I think, would have played the Spanish doubles, even though that wouldn't have been the right decision. I don't I don't think. but I also understand it being irresistible to play one of the world's two best players, you know, get them out on the court. And that's what Isley have done in the last couple of years, you know.

34:20Catherine Whitaker: In 2023, Sina played with Sonogo and in 2024 he played with Berrettini when they needed him in the doubles. And he was more successful than, he's got a better record than Alcaraz has in doubles. I mean, there was that day, wasn't there, where he beat Djokovic in singles and doubles. You know, it was an incredible day. And that was really when Djokovic was still the guy, you know, like he just won the ATP finals beating Sinner and then Sinner saved the match points and then came out and took him out in the doubles as well. So I think probably, I think they probably would have gone with Sinner again, because how can you leave him out when he has at least shown that he can win matches in doubles?

35:05David Law: Today's the day I would have liked to have seen Alcaraz involved. I mean, most of it, I've just actually loved the whole story. Without them, it's been great. But today, you know, as good as it was, imagine if you'd have shoved Alcaraz in there to see if he can just turn the tide altogether. Can we, like, play it again? And just have the alternative reality dried out. Well, presumably Alcaraz would have been heavy favourite to beat Caballi. That's what the match would have been. And then you're in the doubles. But then you get Munar against Berrettini. Yeah, I was going to say, Munar could have beaten Berrettini, potentially.

35:49Oh, yes, of course it changes the...

35:55Do you want to do the sliding doors of an Alejandro Davidovich for Kina? Well, I think we have to come back to that, right? Yes. You know, like that kind of remains the one big question, really, I think, around Spain. Because, look, Alcraz was injured. Alcraz couldn't play.

36:14Catherine Whitaker: He wanted to play. He tried. He came, but he was injured. And so he couldn't play. So sort of actually, I think the sort of maybe more interesting question is Alejandro Davidovich Fikina, because he was the one who was not picked. And if you put Alejandro Davidovic-Vikina in, then you get him and Munar playing in the singles. And Munar is your number two. That does make Spain stronger. Look, I know Kareño Busta got a win in that semifinal. But, you know, the level Munar showed this week, he would have been a very, very strong number two for them. And who knows? Alejandro Davidovic-Vikina could have been an even stronger number one.

36:57Catherine Whitaker: I think his top level is probably higher than Munaz. So I think for Spain, they're obviously very much hoping that Carlos Alcarez will continue to commit and just be fit next time. But I would like to see the reintegration of Alejandro Davidovic for Kina, because he would be a very fun element to add into that squad. I just I do think there's a lot of friction there between Ferrer and him. And I think, I don't think Ferrer is going to go out of his way to pick him, especially now these guys have got them to the final. It's almost a vindication, right? I know that, I know not fully, because you could say with Alejandro Davidic, Fakina, they might have been able to win it.

37:43Catherine Whitaker: You could see it that way. But I think the way Ferrer will see it is, well, just bring in Alcaraz and these are my guys. So it's a tricky situation. It's being the world number one and we're fine. that's yeah just on one element of this I don't want to be a

38:07Matt Roberts: don't want to be a downer but I feel it's important to mention the extra rest day that Italy got over Spain going into this final and that's inevitable due to the structure of this tournament we ended up talking about it because it's the same cadence is the Billie Jean King Cup finals. And we ended up talking about it during our shows on that competition as well. It is an advantage and we don't have the other side of the coin to know how much of an advantage, flip them around and Spain have the extra day of rest. But I do know that Flavio Caballi playing that 17-15 deciding set tie break the day before having to come back and play the final, he'd have been in even more of a state than he was for the first set and a half against Jaume Munar today.

38:57It's a factor that you don't really want to be,

39:02Matt Roberts: you don't want it to be a factor, really, in terms of the integrity of the competition.

39:07Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, and it does keep cropping up. As you said, we do keep having this conversation. It does feel like an element that's there. Also, Spain played Thursday, Saturday, Sunday. They had all of their tennis right at the back end, and their first two ties went the distance, whereas Italy was spaced out. They started a day before. They then had a day off before the final. I think it's a factor. No one mentioned it. Ferrer didn't bring it up, or Munar didn't bring it up. But, yeah, it is a factor. and a tough one to solve in terms of the current format. Yeah. And then you've got the fact that it's a home tie for Italy.

39:56Matt Roberts: That is a significant advantage. They don't have to qualify for the home nation doesn't have to qualify for the Davis Cup finals. They get a direct pass and it's going to be held in Italy for the next two years, which on one hand you think, brilliant. Like, correct me if I'm wrong, Matt, Bologna seemed to have been really great hosts for this event. But again, it just poses potential integrity issues. Yeah, look, I think it has been a good event. I think the first one in Bologna has been a lot better than the first one in Malaga, for example. I think Malaga sort of took time to grow.

40:38Catherine Whitaker: but I think the last one in Malaga was better than this in terms of the event feel and the infrastructure, you know, like the fan zone here wasn't great. And in Malaga, at least like with the good weather as well, it's got a nice outdoor fan zone. I think the vibes were just a bit better here as well. You know, it's a temporary stadium and it feels, it does feel temporary. And I know that that is something that used to happen in the old Davis Cup as well you'd have to suddenly throw a stadium together to sort of host something but I don't know I think given the long-term planning you sort of hope that it's all great when you get there and you know such a long walk from the press area to the to the courts like and I know that sounds like a really minor detail but it does impact your ability to do your job.

41:33Like things like that. A long walk with a really uncomfortable seat at the end of it, Matt. You are describing my nightmare. I'm not minimising the problem you described at all.

41:44Catherine Whitaker: I think it's something that is going to change here in Bologna. I think the plan is very much to go to a different venue in Bologna next year. So I'm hopeful that... The one, the Radiohead one? I actually am not sure it is that one. I think they might, I'm not exactly sure about this, but I think they might be building a new stadium for the basketball team. And then I think the hope is that it will go in there, which would be a more permanent structure. It's just not a particularly glamorous location. You know, the way I described it in terms of Pavilion 37 and Pavilion 36, I think that really does give you an idea as to what it's like.

42:23It's pretty just sort of dry and cold. To be honest, Matt, your backdrop gives us an image of what it's like. Right? It's not glamorous. And I think you want a bit more glamour. And I'm hopeful that will build over the years. And also the city, lovely city, Bologna, like so nice, so stunningly beautiful. but it's under construction at the moment and there's you know there's there's there's sort of putting a tram line in so that wasn't sort of great for fans i don't think and it's not quite the same sort of world cup vibe in terms of if you can't just be outside in the sun and i think malica did have that going for it so look i think it has been it has been a good tournament and particularly with Italy's participation and run, there've been amazing crowds and amazing atmospheres, but you do risk having a neutral final, you know, like we had in Malaga.

43:31And you've also got the inherent unfairness of a country hosting it so much and so often. Like there are these issues with the format that we're going to talk about every single year in this current format. It works, you know? Like, I think we've had good weeks, and I think people probably underestimate just how many of the teams did have their strongest players here, and in Davis Cup generally. Like, even in the qualifiers, USA had a strong team, but they just went out. Australia had a strong team, but they went out. So we therefore were missing some big players here. But it's not like they weren't playing Davis Cup this year.

44:12People are playing Davis Cup. Obviously, Yannick Sinner's withdrawal is the very big caveat to that. I don't want to play that down. That was big. But people are playing. But also, I always think the lack of good, proper TV broadcast deals is a massive problem. You know, like Germany, I was hearing, it wasn't on TV in Germany. It was being streamed online by the Federation. And back in the UK, I know that I know that I know Britain weren't in it, but it was on Tennis Channel. But very, very few people have that. I just I don't get the sense that people know about this still. And even even within tennis, it feels quite small, but especially outside of tennis.

44:57And that to me was one of the big reasons for changing it. They wanted it to have the bigger reach because they said, you know, France, Croatia in France is great for those two nations. But what's the bigger cut through? Let's have a final eight where we've got eight nations. More people are going to be interested. I don't really get the sense that more people are interested via the new format. Maybe people will throw, you know, TV viewing figures and online stats at me that will back that it is bigger. But it doesn't feel like it has more cut through than it used to have. I mean, anecdotally, we've had a lot of people messaging us on Instagram, for example, saying, I don't know how to watch this thing in the UK.

45:43Matt Roberts: I don't even know who the rights holders are and I'm not privy to why Sky Sports don't have the rights. But, you know, they're showing the ultimate tennis showdown in a few weeks. Why don't Sky Sports pick up the Davis Cup finals and put out the feed? It's a good world feed, you know, just put it out. You don't need to do any production around it. Seems like a pretty cheap way to have some more live tennis to broadcast. maybe they want to and they can't because there's an existing deal with Tennis Channel International I don't know but it seems a shame to me that it's not I think this is a very UK centric point but I think just it being on the de facto home of tennis in the UK would elevate its status it would pick up some casual fans that like tennis and check out what's on Sky Sports Sky Sports Tennis or are browsing through the channels and see, oh, David's Cup final, check that out.

46:46David Law: Especially if you've got a sense of what the occasion sounded like, felt like, and you could be part of if you're doing that channel surfing and seeing a clip here and there or whatever. It's just lost. It loses out so much. I mean, when you watch the coverage, when you actually watched the match today, it feels like the biggest thing. it feels like such a big deal and then yeah if you go and talk to people that aren't really making them their mind up to find it and watch it people just don't even know it's on they don't know it's existing and that's a shame Presumably that's different in Italy Oh

47:30Matt Roberts: Would everybody in Italy have known about this and been watching it? Oh I think so As David said when you watch it it feels huge It felt huge. It felt big today. It felt, you know, there was hype. There was, you know, the crowd were in and up for it. And there was pre-max ceremony and people were here early. And they'd lined up to be able to sort of really clap the players onto court as they made their very long walk. I'm going to keep stressing it. From the player area to the arena. Like they were lined up. There was enthusiasm. There was buzz. There was love for it. Because people do love this competition.

48:07There is a magic to this competition. And, you know, I had a great time. I loved it. But I'm trying to just look at the bigger picture, I suppose, as well. Did you see them breaking the cup, breaking the trophy on the stand? I heard about it, but I didn't see it. It was great. The bottom came off. And I think it was Berrettini that fixed it, like the dad of the group. It was all completely adorable, as you'd expect. David, Flavio Caballi, what is he going to do next year in singles?

48:56Matt Roberts: How much of what we've seen this week is he going to bring to the ATP tour next year? He's currently ranked at 22 in the world.

49:06David Law: Yeah, I think he's going to bring a lot. Where's he going to be this time next year? I think we're going to see him in semis, maybe final of the Masters 1000s next year. I think that we're going to see him push in top 10. Maybe not making it, but being in that 10 to 15 area. area i think he's got more room for growth yet um and the thing is i think he can play on anything and uh and he just needs and he's he's going to start the year with no points to defend at all for for like three or four months he could absolutely he could have a really good australia there's no reason why he why not i think a lot of it with him will be about i mean to some degree He does need to get good draws, I think.

49:59David Law: There are some people that would cause him real trouble and could knock him off the court. But if he can avoid them and if he can really believe in himself, I think he could have a very good Australia. I think he could be an Australian Open Court of Firemist, for instance. That wouldn't be beyond him to me. He's already been to a good... These are not the outlandish predictions that I go to David Law for. David, he's already made a Grand Sam quarterfinal. I think he could be top 10 next year. I think he could have a Mazzetti-like year. It does feel like the sort of lower end of the top 10, you could easily say, you know, Caballi could have a similar level to Shelton or Mazzetti.

50:50And I think there's a few other players as well. Felix. Felix. You know, I think Felix is indoors.

50:55Matt Roberts: I know it's about consistency, isn't it? But, you know, he seems pretty physically robust. Caballi, OK, he's not had a season of playing the number of matches that you have to play if you're a top 10 player. But so far, he seems pretty physically robust. He's going to the gym now. That seems like a revelation for him. He is ook. And he's got Berrettini as his hype man. I'm going big on Caballi next year. I think he's going to be in El Race to get to Turin next year. I think he might just miss out. But I think come the end of the season, he's going to find himself maybe in a Lorenzo Mazzetti-esque nightmare.

51:45Matt Roberts: And I wish that for him.

51:51Matt, what do you think? Similar, really. You know, I think we're on the same page. I remember during Wimbledon, where he had that quarterfinal run, I remember there was a lot of talk about just how great his returns are. And again, that's something I noticed. Like, he's able to, I think, pick up the ball very quickly and latch on to returns. And he's really improved his serve. He gets quite a lot out of his serve, considering he's not a big guy. You know, again, he really throws himself into it. He's got a nice kick serve as well. Like, so. His motion's like Federer's, isn't it? It's definitely been modelled on Roger Federer's.

52:33And I think the reason I mention serve and return, which maybe sounds a bit boring, is because I think he needs to do that sort of stuff well. I think the thing with Caballi is you're drawn to the excitement and the potential of it all and the shot making ability and the athleticism. and this is all great. He needs to keep that. But I think in order to make the next step, get into the top 10, reach a Grand Slam semi-final, break new ground. It's very important to do things like serve well. You know, like think of Mazzetti, remodelled his serve at the start of the year and it's really helped him.

53:13Okay, he had a bit of a doubt with it midway through the season, but something like that can be so fundamental to actually like making you a better player. But I think he is along the right path there, Caballi. I like the way he's trending with those things. So, yeah, why not? We should absolutely be high on Flavio Caballi after this week because, you know, he was so great. So I'm going to say he touches the top 10 next year. There we go. Great. I'm with you. I'm the sober guy.

53:51Matt, in the on-court interviews on the World Feed that we were watching, it was Arvin Palmer doing the on-court interviews.

54:00Matt Roberts: And he got invited to the after-party by, I think it was Valandri, who's interviewing at the time. Arvin did. He said, yes, Valandri said, I don't know where we're going to party, but we will be partying. I'll let you know. So maybe you're in there. If they're dishing out those invitations willy-nilly. Maybe Arv isn't willy-nilly. Maybe they're great mates. I don't know.

54:29Catherine Whitaker: Well, look, my flight's not till 6pm tomorrow, so I can go big. Okay. How many sort of places are there to party in Bologna on a Sunday night, do you think?

54:44David Law: I think enough. Maybe it's not that hard to narrow it down. Yeah. OK. OK. David, any more Davis Cup takes before we let Matt go and find the after party? No, I would just encourage anybody listening to go and have a read of Charlie Uckleshire's piece in The Athletic about the Davis Cup, that he's been working all week and he put that out over this weekend, which includes an interview with Ross Hutchins, who's the new chief executive of the ITF, which is responsible for the Davis Cup. And it really tries to get to the heart of what Davis Cup could do to become the event it so clearly wants to be.

55:34David Law: And you get the feeling that the players want it to be, but they are struggling to kind of prioritise. And we've been having this conversation for so long. Charlie's interview with him, it makes you feel like Ross at least is going to try to open every door and talk to every player and see what the will is. If there is a common will, the problem is you speak to 20 people, you can often get several different versions of what should be happening. I mean I said to you guys not that long ago in my sort of idealistic world you would just stop singles play in September you know you'd have the US Open you'd have the tour finals at the end of September and you'd call October your Davis Cup and Billie Jean King Cup month and then you'd stop and have two everybody would have two months off but you know Charlie put that in his piece and he said he said yeah but that'll never happen basically that the bottom line is and I know it won't and that's the that's the problem but but have a read of it because you hear from sinner and and alcaraz and you hear from from ross and and other people within the tennis world everybody loves the event nobody wants to see it die everybody wants to see it thrive but who's who's actually going to give up stuff in order to make it happen and and should it be going every two years is one of the big elements of it you know we had jack draper on this show a couple of weeks ago saying make tennis more scarce make people miss it you know and maybe if it was every two years maybe there'd be that sort of missing it and desire to see it next time more i don't know i mean you know and but how would the itf ever do that because they make such money out of it and the federations make such money out of it there's just so much there that you'd have to unpack but um i don't think the sport should stop trying i don't think there should just be an acceptance of this that there needs to be a ross hutchins or somebody coming in and saying no this needs to be the ultimate and that's how ross talks about it and okay well let's make it that then shall we yeah i i i would agree with everything david's

57:56Catherine Whitaker: said there I was trying to think about you know a potential solution while I was watching this you know and I was thinking this is this is amazing but this is a you know this is a home and away Davis Cup final here by by luck by chance okay not not total luck because obviously Italy have got such a good team but it could have it could have been very different today It could have been different. There was not a guarantee that we got that atmosphere today here. And I know the ITF have been committed to the final eight as a concept, but I was thinking of the current structure of Davis Cup that we have with the three weeks of the year after the Australian Open, which is now home and away, after the US Open, which is home and away again, and at the end of the season, which is now the final eight.

58:47It did strike me that, is it the wrong way around? You know, should the opening stages be a sort of group element? And you whittle the teams down in neutral locations, and then you have your big matches home and away at the end of the competition.

59:07Catherine Whitaker: So you always get semifinals, maybe after the US Open, which is home and away, and you get a final, which is home and away. And it just strikes me that I quite like the balance we've got now of the three weekends rather than the four that it used to be. I think it has taken some toll off the players. And I like that we've got some home and away again. I quite like the final eight as a concept, as I've described. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just thinking, could it be even better? And I just think maybe if you were to flip it, you would get that incredible atmosphere for the end matches guaranteed.

59:49That's quite similar to David's proposal of having a big, we can discuss sort of the details of what it might look like,

59:58Matt Roberts: But a big competition earlier on, let's say that could be a final eight type thing with lots of nations in one location. The winner of that to take on the defending champions in a home and away final. Yeah. And look, a potential negative of what I've just said is that, you know, I think those opening rounds on neutral venues probably wouldn't look great. You know, they probably wouldn't get many people going to them. And you, you know, you're maybe taking away the chance for some of these smaller nations to host ties, which they can at least now do with the two rounds of home and away early on in the competition.

1:00:44You know, we had the draws today for the qualifiers next year. I think India is hosting a tie, like amazing. and if you sort of came up with the sort of idea that I've had there that that would be probably very very difficult to do but I just I just am so sold now having I think this is the first time since 2019 where I've witnessed a Davis Cup final have the home team in it you know and it's magical It's better. And we used to have that. And now we're not guaranteed it. And I would I would like a way where the final of the competition, the final should be the best thing. And, you know, I was just trying to think of an idea within the current framework without changing it sort of massively and massively overhauling it, because ultimately what David said is right.

1:01:38Catherine Whitaker: Like to get the ideal ultimate change, you have to rip everything up. And, you know, all the various all the various governing bodies and enterprises have to be singing from the same hymn sheet. And that just seems just seems like a pipe dream. But I think I think there are ways. And I think David's right about Ross Hutchins as well. Hopefully he can be the sort of figure that can listen to people. And, you know, to be fair to the Davis Cup, they have made some changes. You know, like we're not we've not got the same format we had five years ago. They are trying to improve and tinker. Some of it was enforced by by losing all the Cosmos money, you know, like but they are open to change.

1:02:18So I'm hopeful that we can keep trying to build something even better, even if it's pretty good as it is right now.

1:02:25Matt Roberts: The thing is, the ITF are both responsible for the Davis Cup and creating this elite World Cup of Tennis product that is maximally attractive to an audience, maximally attractive to sponsors, viewers, players, you know, this big, shiny thing. And they're also responsible for developing tennis in smaller nations and for growing the sport worldwide and for grassroots. And I believe in both those two things. But those agendas are quite often in opposition. And with the Davis Cup, you're trying to unite those two agendas. And actually, they're not as aligned as the competition kind of needs is trying to make them in its current structure, doing the grassroots thing and having ties in India, which is a brilliant, brilliant thing.

1:03:25Matt Roberts: I'm not advocating against that, but it kind of is at odds with making the thing as shiny as it possibly can be. Yeah, that's it. And I think when people and I would, you know, I'm sure I'm guilty of this myself. When we when we talk about what the Davis Cup could be, we're mostly thinking about the top end of it and the top tier of it.

1:03:46Catherine Whitaker: And I think it's as you said, the the fact that it happens every year is very important for the smaller nations in the sport. And, yeah, it's so hard. For every proposal you can have, you can come up with a counter proposal for something else. Like, it's hard. And I do think people are trying. Yeah, absolutely. Well, it's been a good week. I've really enjoyed it. And I am not going to get to go to the after party and I'll still have considered it a good week.

1:04:21David Law: So who knows how many marks out of 10 Matt Roberts is going to end up giving his... Me and Arvin Palmer. Will we get to hear him sing again? Maybe we'll start the Argentine song again. Arvin Palmer, Flavio Caballi in a broken Davis Cup. Call it a night out. Yes. Bring your singing to the party, Matt.

1:04:44Matt Roberts: AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the 14500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows, and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com. This episode is sponsored by Michaels. your destination for all things birthday parties. We just had Lucky's first birthday, and it was so great to be able to go into Michael's and get everything.

1:05:29Of course, I knew they had craft supplies there, but I didn't realize how expansive their party supplies were. And Michael's really is where you can go to get everything for a party, whether you're planning a kid's birthday or even an adult celebration. They've got over 4 ,500 party supplies, more than 60 different themes, and prices starting at just 99 cents. Plus, they've recently lowered prices on hundreds of items. We found adorable decorations, balloons, everything we needed to pull the party together without making a bunch of different shopping trips. Plus, I always have a good time going to Michael's.

1:06:00I love shopping there. I could just browse the aisles forever. But if you're short on time, like I always seem to be, you can also get same-day delivery or buy online and pick up at the store. They even offer free helium inflation on select balloon styles, which is such a lifesaver and it was for our party, truly. So if you've got a birthday coming up or just a celebration, remember Michael's everything to celebrate anything. Visit Michael's in-store or shop online now.

1:06:32We have mascots for this episode. They are Holly and Margot, owned by Randy, Randy Whitmire. Holly and Margot, I see some doodles here. Yeah, they are golden doodles.

1:06:49Matt Roberts: Holly is a three-year-old and Margot is a one-year-old. We live in North Carolina, says Randy, but they are originally from Tennessee and they're actually cousins. Holly loves chasing frisbee more than anything. Margot loves chasing her balls too, but can be distracted more easily by a juicy stick to chew. They sometimes accompany me to the tennis court, says Randy, and are well behaved there. In general, Margot is the loud one who wants everyone to know she's the top dog. They both are very loving and loyal and we don't know what we'd do without them. Randy, that's all beautiful, but you haven't told me which one's which.

1:07:27Which one looks like a holly and which one looks like a Margot?

1:07:31Matt Roberts: We have a pale blonde one on the left and we have a more gingery, Billie Jean type coloured one on the right. What do we think?

1:07:44Catherine Whitaker: I think maybe Margot on the right. I was going to say the same, Matt. Randy, get in touch. Let us know. Lovely dogs, both of them, whichever one is which. We have our mascots, of course, Phoebe, Maisie and Roger. Hello to you. We have our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. Matt, do we have shout outs? We do. We have Fiona McGregor from Edinburgh.

1:08:15Matt Roberts: I was going to say, that's a Scottish name if ever I heard one. Hello, Fiona. Hi, Fiona. Fiona's been listening to the pod since 2016. Good effort. Wow.

1:08:29David Law: The year Andy Murray became world number one. Andy Murray, world number one days. That is a long time ago. Nine years.

1:08:41Matt Roberts: I think of 2016 as the year that David discovered how weird I was about the Olympics. Do you remember that?

1:08:49David Law: Yes, I do. I do. You didn't do anything else, did you?

1:08:54Matt Roberts: I remember your face going like, God, I knew you were into it.

1:08:57David Law: I mean I thought I was into it and then I realised I couldn't get a hold of it unless it was to do with the Olympics

1:09:10Edinburgh

1:09:13I always tell the story about the Champions Tour event with the roof that didn't fit it's Vienna reference no but it just made me chuckle

1:09:24Matt Roberts: I went to as did David go to the I think you were there David the Glasgow GB Australia Davis Cup tie the semi-final where I insulted

1:09:42David Law: what's his name the one who's now a politician I insulted Sam Groff in an interview I think that is still on the internet somewhere. You had takes about his hair, which his teammates found very amusing. Fiona, thank you very much for giving us the chance to relive that. We also have Fleur Thomas from New Zealand, but living in Melbourne. We know Fleur. We went for lunch with Fleur at the Australian Open. Hi Fleur. And the Eccleshares. Fleur. That was one of the all-time Grand Slam days.

1:10:29Catherine Whitaker: It really was. I can't believe that was real. That was so nice. I was like, what is my life on that day? Yeah, incredibly lovely and erudite company of which Fleur formed a significant part. So thank you, Fleur.

1:10:43David Law: I'm struggling for other tennis Fleurs, though. I've got to be honest. It's a lovely name, Fleur.

1:10:51Matt Roberts: But yeah, potentially unique in the tennis world. Thank you, Fleur. Thanks, Fleur. Maybe we'll see you again in Melbourne this time. And finally, we have a shout out from someone who didn't leave their name. However, Vicky has done some quite extraordinary detective work and figured out from all the various information that it is for Barclay Hughes. Oh, Barclay? Maybe Barclay didn't want their identity disclosed. Maybe Barclay's a spy. Well. Why would you want a shout-out if you don't want your identity disclosed, though?

1:11:28Catherine Whitaker: Part of the reason Vicky managed to figure it out is that we've given Barkley a shout-out before, and Barkley said, you've got the pronunciation right. Oh, well, I'm a bit pleased. Like Barkley's the former sponsor of the ATP finals.

1:11:42David Law: Like Ian Barkley, the former, well, the coach of Pat Cash when he won Wimbledon in 1987. We've done great work there, David, for Barkley. Matt's come up with nothing. Alison Hughes She was here this week Is that the second time she's come up this week? Do we know anything else? No, we do Are we spelling it right? B-A-R? Yes, absolutely And Barclay says My only Grand Slam has been the night session of a US Open In the early 2000s That featured a young Leighton Hewitt And Lindsay Davenport Wow Barclay Good memories Leighton Hewitt played a professional tennis match this week Did you see that? He partnered Cruz, didn't he?

1:12:34He played Challenger doubles with Cruz Presumably they played Yeah, and they won Love and War or something But then presumably they played more

1:12:39Catherine Whitaker: I didn't hear the end of that tournament story for them Yeah

1:12:46Matt Roberts: Well, I was about to close the show by saying that's it for live tennis for 2025 but apparently Leighton and Cruz Hewitt are still going. So we shall carry on and bring you news of whatever it is they're up to. That is it for live tennis for 2025, but that isn't it from us. We still have plenty more podcasts coming your way for the remainder of the season. In fact, our podcast coming to you next Monday is a very exciting one indeed. I shall say no more, but refresh your feeds, folks. we've got a fun week ahead at Tennis Podcast Towers and subscribe to our newsletter check us out on Instagram if you want to make sure you cross everything that we've got coming your way between now and the end of the season there might not be live tennis but there's always there's always nonsense going on to talk about always nonsense in the tennis world and of course we've got end of year shows we've got barge awards we've got quizzes it's not too late if you want to become a friend of the tennis podcast and make sure you get access to all of the bonus content that we have coming up between now and the end of the year we still have one more tennis relived edition to go that we're going to be recording very soon indeed David did a big interview for that this week fun times here at the tennis podcast thank you all for listening to this show for joining us live if you did It was a very lively, fun chat tonight.

1:14:18Matt Roberts: Thank you, as always, to Hannah for shepherding that. Thank you, Matt Roberts, for your incredible efforts in Bologna this week. He even switched off a fridge for today's show to ensure perfect audio conditions. You've taught him well, David. Yeah.

1:14:37Catherine Whitaker: Yeah. Very proud. Don't worry, I will be switching it back on. Everything just if I asked you. Go and find that after party. You have owned it, earned it. And please send content so I can post it on our Instagram. And do follow us on Instagram, folks.

1:14:54Matt Roberts: I'll pop a link in the show notes. There'll be a link to become a friend in the show notes, to sign up for the newsletter. All of that if you haven't already. Thank you ever so much for listening. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. Hannah has just posted in the chat to say the Barge Awards nominations close tonight. Get yourself on the barge if you're a friend of the Tennis Podcast and vote in the Barge Awards. Thank you for listening. We'll speak to you soon.

1:15:42Make the most of it at bestwestern.com. No additional purchase necessary for sweeps. See bonus points, TNCs, and sweeps rules for details. As a small business owner, you're the CEO, the marketing team, and the customer service rep all at once. I was recently talking to a shop owner who told me their worst nightmare isn't a slow day, it's the vanishing act. It's that moment you're inches away from a deadline and the Wi-Fi just disappears. We've all felt that pit in our stomach when the connection flares up right when it matters most. Your business is only as strong as your connection. AT &T Business is the reliable provider built for that exact brand of hustle, so you can stay focused on the work that builds your legacy.

1:16:23Powered by AT &T Business. Built to work. Get AT &T Business at business.att.com.