French Open Day 13 - Surely now for Zverev?

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1:26Matt Roberts: Hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast on one of the weirdest Grand Slam days that any of us can remember. Remember Men's Semi-Final Day at the Australian Open? Yeah, this wasn't that. We're coming to you early tonight because the second of the two Men's Single Semi-Finals scheduled to start at 7pm half an hour ago has been cancelled because Matteo Arnaldi has had to withdraw with a virus. We are currently surrounded by disappointed Chattier ticket holders milling about the place, looking pretty bummed out. Frankly, they will all be receiving refunds, but it is nonetheless a huge blow for them, for the tournament, obviously for Arnaldi and maybe even Flavio Caballi too, who despite now being into a maiden Grand Slam final, frankly seems mostly just distraught for his friend.

2:19Matt Roberts: And we know this because we've just been in a press conference with Flavio Caballi and Matteo Arnaldi. The two of them together, socially distanced at the desk, Arnaldi departing halfway through, leaving just as gutted a-looking Caballi to field questions about the weird circumstances of reaching this final. That press conference, David, was one of the weirdest things that I have ever experienced while covering a Grand Slam.

2:50David Law: Yeah, well, it reminded us of the pandemic, really. And we've had a few things that have slightly reminded us of the pandemic, not least the fact that Alexander Zverev's in the final. You know, it's just one of those. but when we actually went out for a little wander we watched the men's wheelchair doubles final with Alfie Hewitt and Gordon Reid for a while and just sitting down there taking in the sun, enjoying that match good atmosphere, there were French players involved as well so there's singing and we'd seen and covered the Alexander's Verov match and we're waiting for the night session match with Matteo Arnaldi and Flavio Caballi to take part, take place.

3:36David Law: And that would have been as we talk to you right now. And then suddenly the announcement comes over the tannoy that Matteo Inaldi, poor old Matteo, is going to be forced to withdraw. And then we get the notification that they're doing a press conference together. And it just, that sounded absurd. The guy's pulling out with a virus, so you're going to put him in the same room with the guy who's in the final. I mean, lovely gesture if that's Flavio's idea, but what are you doing? Anyway, we get to the door of the press conference room and sure enough, the desk is a really long one and there were either ends of it and nobody in between.

4:20Matt Roberts: With the slogan, only at Roland Garros, written on the desk, which is absolute perfection. It's really weird, Matt.

4:33Catherine Whitaker: So weird. I thought the WhatsApp notification announcing the press conference was some kind of mistake. You know, it came through, Caballi and Arnaudi will be in the main press room at 6.45. And, you know, I just thought, OK, well, it'll be one after the other, surely. And then it was together. And then when we got there, seeing it, I mean, yeah, look, it is a nice thing for Caballi to do. but I'm not sure it was necessarily the right thing to do. Surely you just take no risks whatsoever in that situation. I mean, I guess these guys are sharing a locker room and he's talked about seeing him in there and being told by him and Zverev mentioned that he saw Arnaldi in the locker room.

5:19Catherine Whitaker: You know, they've shared these spaces. But surely you just...

5:22Matt Roberts: Super spreading all over the shop, Arnaldi.

5:23Catherine Whitaker: You just keep risk to a minimum, I would have thought. It was surreal. Yeah, it was surreal.

5:30Matt Roberts: Yeah, really odd. And look, I've got very complicated feelings about this in terms of Kabbali because like him doing this, that sort of aspect of his personality is one of the things that has reeled me into being a Kabbali guy. He's such a softy, isn't he? And it's, it was such a lovely, selfless, kind, compassionate thing to do. And so clearly just completely genuine. But it was also an utterly fangless thing to do. like that was not the sensible thing to do at all no I mean it is a stuffy room I gotta say

6:07David Law: look it's probably gonna be fine um but but I I even feel like you know it's he's got to get himself into a mindset to try to win this title and to be ruthless and to be able You know, I think he'll be able to do that. But at the moment, he seems quite taken aback and jarred by this whole experience.

6:34Matt Roberts: Well, he said he was on the verge of tears when he found out. And again, this is what we like about him. He is who he is. He's somebody that feels his feelings and rides that roller coaster. And sometimes that propels him to great things. You know, the most obvious recent example of that is the Munich final, where he'd received terrible personal news shortly before it and played some of the best tennis I've ever seen from him. It happened to be against Alexander Zverev that day, of course. But, you know, we also see him walk on the court sometimes. I have periods during matches where his mind is very clearly elsewhere.

7:11Matt Roberts: So this is just him. You know, he needed to experience all of the emotions for his friend in that moment. and I totally understand that. But I am worried generally that this really isn't ideal preparation for playing your first Grand Slam final, specifically for Flavio Caballi as well, being thrown out of the rhythm of the tournament, having a lot of time to think about this, not sharpening his competitive fangs today. None of it feels ideal. And he was very honest in that press conference when he was asked about whether this could help him in terms of freshness for the final or set him off his rhythm.

7:52Matt Roberts: And he said, I don't know. This has never happened before. It really could go one way or the other. I don't know. It wasn't a hugely reassuring answer for Caballi guys out there.

8:04David Law: No, well, you see, I think if he'd have been in a five-set classic tonight, that would have hurt him potentially for the final because of the amount it might have exhausted him and the emotional energy he might have expended. Equally, I think winning that match and playing well and being on this set-piece stage again would have been really beneficial to him and the rhythm you talk about as well. I mean, Zverev's not tired. He's only lost a couple of sets all tournament. He's absolutely fine. So I don't think this is a gain for Cobb Oli. It's just not going to drain him physically. I don't know what you two think.

8:48David Law: I feel like the biggest danger to him, A, is Zverev is playing really well, but I think the main thing is sort of stage fright, getting out there and just feeling like you can't feel the ball.

9:01Catherine Whitaker: Do you think that is worsened by this, though, or do you think you would have thought that that was kind of the biggest risk anyway, even without this?

9:11David Law: I think it is the biggest risk anyway, but I also think it can be exacerbated by this. I think the more times he's on the stage, on court Philippe Chatrier, playing with a full crowd, having to get over the line to reach his first grand slam final, I think that might have helped. But look, it's only speculation, isn't it? What can I say? I can't know for sure. We're going to find out. But that's a concern for me, for him.

9:38Matt Roberts: And I think being in a situation, you know, he'd never won a Grand Slam semi-final before. If he could have done, look, we're talking about it like it was a given that he would win. I think we all did feel quite confident that he would win tonight, even though there was a lot of pressure on him because he was the heavy favourite. Like, assuming he did do that, that's doing a thing you've never done before, which I think I would find helpful going into another match in two days where I was trying to do another thing I'd never done before, albeit a bigger thing.

10:10Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, no, that makes sense to me. I guess I'm not convinced that when that final is happening on Sunday, I'll be thinking about this and thinking it's the reason for whatever happens. I do think the match is going to be separate to what's just happened here. but yeah it's it I mean frankly I feel for Arnaldi you know really in all this like his first shot at a Grand Slam semi-final like no matter that you must be feeling awful to not even be able to give it a shot you know and that's just that's just such a blow because we don't know he doesn't know no one can know whether he'll be back in this position and he's played such an incredible tournament he's provided so many memorable moments and he doesn't get a shot at that stage and and the attempt to make the final so you know I get why we're thinking about it from a caballi perspective because he's still in in the tournament and it we can speculate on that but you know in terms of who who I mostly feel sorry for in this situation it's it's obviously Arnaldi and Arnaldi didn't get his

11:25Matt Roberts: lovely moment winning through the quarterfinals because he was the caballi in that situation with Matteo Berrettini and he was so desperately upset for Matteo Berrettini. It's been a bummer, hasn't it?

11:39David Law: There are 15 ,000 spectators out there. I mean, they're getting their money back, but they're not getting a match. It's tough scenes.

11:47Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, and this is something I wanted to mention. So three of the four slams have split-session semifinals for the men's semis, so different sets of ticket holders. And it's a real trend over the last five years or so that we're getting compromised men's semifinals. And there's lots of potential reasons and factors for that. But since the start of 2022, we've now had five retirements or walkovers in men's slam semifinals. Here, we've had Nadal retirement, we've had a Mazzetti retirement, and now we've had an Arnaudi withdrawal. In Australia, we had a Djokovic retirement, and at Wimbledon, we had a Nadal withdrawal and walkover.

12:36Catherine Whitaker: and I'm not even mentioning in those five, we've had Djokovic compromised in last year's Wimbledon semifinal against Sinner. We had Draper vomiting all over the place against Sinner in the US Open. We have Alcaraz cramping here in the French Open. That was a bit of a non-match for two sets. We had the Rude Parasite here. Like, we're up to nine matches there since the start of 2022 where people who've come for just one match have had either retirement, no match or a heavily impacted match due to some kind of injury or nerves you know and that's sport right the ticket holders all know that when they come and and buy the ticket i just think it's it's a blow it's it's a real blow when that happens and you've got no second match and i don't think they're going to rethink these slam semi-finals i'm sure they're going to keep doing them as split sessions but it's a risk these tournaments are taking because it feels like it's on the rise this this kind of thing late in the tournament it's

13:39Matt Roberts: interesting isn't it because they would say well people are buying tickets so you know it's up to them to to take that risk and people are obviously prepared to it does baffle me that people are prepared to i would absolutely not buy that ticket maybe i am you know obviously i'm in a far more privileged position than the average tennis fan I do realize that but um I really think even extracting myself from that it just I just think it's such a risk it's such it's such a risk um I also think there's this sort of irony of you know we all know where I stand increasingly on best of three versus best of five for a whole bunch of reasons but like men's being best of five like a big motivator for that for tournaments who you know we know are incredibly revenue driven is that they can sell single session particularly here they can sell single match sessions they do it for 11 nights in the night session and then they do it on men's semi-finals day as well and that is because it's best of five tennis but best of five tennis also makes it far more likely that this is going to happen at the business end of the tournament when there's nothing else going on in terms of singles matches.

14:54Matt Roberts: All eyes are on it. All your broadcaster's eyes are on it. There is absolutely nowhere to hide. You cannot tell me, look, maybe it would have got this virus anyway. I don't think 19 and a half hours of tennis that Arnaldi has played over the last two weeks made him less susceptible to getting a virus. I don't think all the tennis Berrettini played made him any less likely to get injured as he did a couple of nights ago. Like, this is on the rise because tennis is getting more physical and longer and it is too much. It's too much. I know we had last year's final here, but imagine if that had happened in a semi-final and someone had had to come back after that.

15:37Matt Roberts: Like, it works if it happens in a final, but we pay such a price for having all this fun earlier in the tournament. It comes at a price and I don't think the price is worth paying.

15:50David Law: Yeah, I mean, certainly sometimes it does. You could argue, look at the Australian Open, that those were two five-set epics and then two days later it was a decent men's final. But yeah, I mean...

16:02Matt Roberts: Djokovic wasn't in great shape for that final. And we didn't have any fun along the way. The overall point, certainly, it feels like there are a lot,

16:12David Law: but I'd like to see stats on it. I mean, you often hear the ATB saying, well, the stats don't show. I'd love to see them over the last year or so, and particularly given how long these matches have been, particularly this tournament, I mean, the fact that I used to just think of a five-hour match as something otherworldly, and now it feels, well, yeah, that happens.

16:39Matt Roberts: I mean, Charlie Eccleshire always makes the point that the reason Best of Five set tennis was introduced as a format is because matches were routinely over in sort of an hour, an hour and a half. They were trying to extend the potential for tennis matches to like two, maximum three hours. Nobody envisaged this. And look, I have had fun watching some of these, watching most of these epics. I have had fun. I'm not that much of a party pooper that I can't enjoy it. But there is always a cloud in the back of my mind. There's a cost for this waiting for us down the line. And here we are, I feel like, experiencing that.

17:19David Law: And also, more importantly, the players that are getting injured along the way. And it's difficult to establish definite cause and effect. But look, this tournament is just bereft of some of its biggest stars, young stars. And that needs looking at.

17:41Matt Roberts: OK, that's it for part one. We'll be back in part two to talk about the tennis that did happen today.

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20:35Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast, The Bit, where we actually talk about some tennis that happened today. Not necessarily the most thrilling tennis of the tournament, but in the end, an impressive performance from Alexander Zverev to beat Jakub Mensik 7-5, 6-2, 3-6, 6-3 to reach the Roland Garos final once again. Mensik's powers of physical revival finally running dry, David.

21:01David Law: Yeah, he wasn't quite the same player from the first ball, really, that we saw against Fonseca the other day. And part of that is because Alexander Zverev played a different kind of match to what Fonseca played and the first three service games that Mensik played were all juice games it was all a bit of a saga just just to try to keep the score close and I thought he did a good job at that considering he was also benefiting because I don't think Zverev had properly settled down either it was pretty tentative stuff early on there were chances I thought for Zverev early on and he didn't take them and I thought maybe this is the Mensik that is actually going to win this match sort of winning the the kind of scruffy games and then bursting out with a breaker serve and in fact he did he was the first player to get break points he got three break points in a game he didn't take them you know and and that really was that first set right there because a couple of games later Zverev had one break point and he sealed it and you could see him settle as soon as that happen and in fact as the set was wearing on the timing he had compared to to menschik was quite noticeable you know his ball was going through the court more he was just more confident really and i think more energetic there was there was i felt some physical impact from the week and maybe nerves as well for menschik so once that first set's on the board i thought that was pretty much job done the second set was quick 6-2 and I actually thought that Mensik did a really good job of making a fight of it and it would have been it was interesting to see Zverev have to deal with that I was wondering whether nerves would start to show themselves at all and I think they did a bit you know he did miss a few and and it all kind of happened in the third set when Mensik left the court for a medical timeout he had some neck manipulation and when he came out of the locker room about five minutes later he sort of ran out and I thought oh hello he means business here I think I mean I think he was three two down at that time and then suddenly he was a different player and he was going for his shots he was landing them he went five two up and he managed to get over the line and win that third set but again immediately Zverev responded and he got got himself a healthy advantage three lovely that started the uh the fourth set and that was the story of it really it was a very good solid performance from zverev i actually think he is he is doing more than just extending rallies in this tournament he he is combining the solidity of his game that is going to draw errors from these inferior frankly opponents really lower rank talk upcoming opponents i don't want to be negative about them but he is superior to them at the moment and he doesn't have Alcraz and Sinner and Djokovic to deal with but he's also stepping on it if there's a ball that's anything like short of the the mark he is hammering it um and that is something I don't think we've seen before this season to quite this degree

24:09Catherine Whitaker: David summed it up I'm not sure I have too much to add really I I found it all quite tedious this match. It wasn't a banger, was it? No, like they're, you know, David's described the differences between them, but sort of, they're quite similar players. There's not a huge contrast of styles there. And I just felt it was so important for Menchik to win the first set. So I was kind of engaged in that first set when he had those break points. I think he will regret the second and third one. On the first break point that he had, Menchik at 4-3, Zverev had a great serve. Not much you can do about that.

24:47Catherine Whitaker: The second one was a really long rally, and Menchik was quite passive in it, and it was actually Zverev that changed the direction and went up the line first. And then the third one, Menchik shanked a forehand out. So that was his chance. And then I just didn't ever believe that he had it in him physically to mount a comeback against this Zverev, who, as David described, is playing well. I've seen him play better, I think. I don't think it's absolute peak, but I think he's playing well. And crucially for him, he's serving really well. I mean, his first serve percentage today was in the mid-70s.

25:25Catherine Whitaker: That's a very healthy percentage for Zverev.

25:27Matt Roberts: Whereas it felt like Munchik was not getting the free points he quite often gets on serve today.

25:34Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I thought that too. And I do think it's hard to get free points against Zverev. He stands far back, he gives himself room, He's got such long reach. He gets a lot of balls back into play. And I think Mentorship maybe needed to do more off his next ball, but didn't quite have the timing or the feel on it. And that was all compounded by when he went behind by a set. Yeah, it was a very good performance from Zverev for anyone who was thinking, oh, well, the biggest chance is him not performing in a match where he's the favourite. because he absolutely did today, so credit to him for that.

26:16Matt Roberts: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. He is... It does feel like you've got to get him in the first set, Zverev, doesn't it? That is the pattern, not just here, but particularly here. There's not been much vulnerability in Zverev.

26:30David Law: That's what nobody's done so far.

26:32Matt Roberts: But he was not hitting that forehand. I mean, the forehand for forehand connoisseurs was a tough scene. Both of them were not connecting well with that forehand for most of the first set. Zvera found it towards the end, and that made quite a significant difference. And as Matt described, the third break point that Mensik had was a massive forehand error, and I never felt confident in the Mensik forehand at any stage today. All those gremlins returned, very understandable in all the various different circumstances, but did feel like... I don't want to make it sound easier than it is, but I feel like you've got to get him in the first set.

27:14David Law: Yeah, because he is such a great competitor. He is prepared to be carried off that court, and he is mentally very solid in terms of, you're going to have to beat me. I mean, I do think that we've seen in the past, he's struggled well obviously in a grandstand final that we saw all those years ago but he said afterwards in the press conference look that is maybe the shot that I've improved the most because that's the one that I didn't know when it was going to break down in that final I knew it could come at any time he said and he's just not worried about it now I mean you do occasionally see a double thought from him but it's really not like it used to be You used to be a bit like with Coco Gauff.

27:59David Law: You'd be sort of waiting for it to come as one of the features of his game. That just doesn't happen now. I do agree with you that it would be interesting as a spectacle, if nothing else, just as a competitive spectacle, to see what would happen if Caballi could get that first set. See how that changes the dynamic. I actually think if somebody's going to beat him, that's what needs to happen. Minsk needed that first set today.

28:24Matt Roberts: Look, we'll have more opportunity to preview the men's final tomorrow, but I do feel like with Zverev, it's partly because he's played really well and dealt with the pressure so well, of course, that he hasn't been in a position of being under pressure. But the whole, like, can he stand up to the pressure of this finally so obviously being his chance, I want to see that really tested. Like, we haven't seen that under maximum strain and he may well be up to it. we just don't know. And I would like to know. I would like to see that in the final. I have my doubts about Caballi.

29:02David Law: We haven't seen that all the way through. This is the most sort of solid and consistent slam he's played. But look, the opposition has been nothing like what he might have played in many of the other grand slams. And look, he can't do anything about that. He plays whoever's in front of him and he's dealt with them. but these things can't be ignored.

29:24Matt Roberts: Do you think Mensik will reach Grand Slam finals one day or a final?

29:33Catherine Whitaker: Possibly. I mean, if he's already got to a semi-final at this stage, I do think there's... You know, it's weird, right? Because on the one hand, it feels a bit out of the blue, this semi-final, you know? Yes. But then taking his career as a whole, he has won a Masters 1000 and he has beaten Yannick Sinner on tour so he was definitely in the pool of players who could reach a Grand Sam semi-final I just didn't think it would be this one

30:03Matt Roberts: A bit like when Jack Draper reached the US Open semi-final a couple of years ago I think we all thought that was his potential but like oh okay we're doing it now are we?

30:13Catherine Whitaker: Yeah I suppose I don't see him as a really sustained third guy, you know. But I do think he can have tournaments like this where it can come together and he can be a really tough player to beat and dangerous because he's got weapons, he's got the big serve, he's pretty powerful, you know. And I think his game translates across the surfaces. I think he's improving his five-set record as well. so yes if I had to say I definitely think he'd be back in Grand Slam semi-finals and then I think it really depends I think what side of the draw you're on and who you're playing I'm not expecting many slams to be as open as this one again but they may well be open halves of draws and Mensik could absolutely take advantage of that he's a very well rounded good player

31:16Matt Roberts: Yeah, generally speaking, as a default in men's tennis, if everyone's fit, then if you're in a semi-final, we're expecting that you're playing either Sinner or Alcaraz and you're losing.

31:27David Law: Yeah, that's right. I agree with you. I think he'll get to semis and we'll see how he develops, really. I mean, he's only 20. The one thing that I really did see from the commentary box being a sort of bird's eye view is just how difficult that swinging serve out wide is to the juice court, dragging Zverev out there, it felt like he got a tap for points that he could just turn on any time he needed a point because Zverev couldn't deal with that serve at all. I actually think he could have played it even more. And that, with the serve and volley, was very, very effective. Drop shots did well for periods, but if you're relying on drop shots for points, I don't think that's going to get it done.

32:13David Law: You need that as a bit of a change-up. I think his forehand wasn't getting through the clay and neither was the backhand the way that Zverev's was.

32:25Matt Roberts: Absolutely. OK, more preview of the men's singles final tomorrow when we come back in part three. We'll preview the women's singles final, run you through some of the other big results from today and, of course, award musketeer of the day. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the Fortune 500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most.

33:06Matt Roberts: Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com.

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33:45Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part three of tonight's tennis podcast, where, Matt and David, you don't know this, but I am about to award back-to-back Muscatare of the Days.

33:55David Law: To the same person?

33:56Matt Roberts: Same person. 20-year-old Ksenia Shastou, who yesterday reached her first Grand Slam single semifinal. Today, she's kept the run going and she's now into her first Grand Slam singles final with a 6-3, 6-1 win over the second seed Li Zhaohui. And in that final, she will face Dida Dukut. And I'm really into this final because you've got a 20-year-old who has emerged while Dida Dukut has been out and recovering and trying to come back from the hip surgery that she had after the 2024 Paris Olympics, taking on returning resurgent Dida de Routes. And it is her first major final since that hip surgery in 2024.

34:47Matt Roberts: And there really were huge doubts about whether she would ever get back to this position. She's reached a couple of quarterfinals since that comeback, but it's been tough for her. This is a really fun final. And obviously, there'll, I think, be a lot of French support. There was a lot of support out there for the men's wheelchair doubles final today, which had Stéphane Houdet in it. More of that in a moment. Lots of Allé Le Bleu. Not sure they realised that Martin de la Puente is in fact Spanish. And it was Le Bleu, not Les Bleu. But anyway, it was a good vibe. And I think that would be the same for the women's wheelchair singles final.

35:24Matt Roberts: The men's wheelchair singles final will be a repeat of last year's between, you guessed it, Taquito Oda and Alfie Hewitt. Oda beat Martin de la Puente and Hewitt beat Gustave Fernandez, both of them in straight sets today. God, what Alfie Hewitt would give for a win over Taquito Oda.

35:45David Law: Yeah.

35:46Matt Roberts: Yeah. It was here last year, wasn't it, before that final, David, that you interviewed Alfie Hewitt, I think?

35:54David Law: I think it was before the Australian Open final.

35:57Matt Roberts: I remember previewing that final here with you, David, last year, and you were talking about the interview that you'd done with Alfie before the Australian Open final, and it told you all about how he had hired a lefty hitting partner purely with the intent of trying to overcome Takedo Oda. And here we are again. So all eyes on that men's wheelchair singles final as well. In terms of the doubles, the top seeds, Uwe Kimiji and Zhu Zhenzhen, won the women's wheelchair doubles title today. And the men's wheelchair doubles title, which we watched some of earlier before being interrupted by the very surreal news that Caboli and Arnaldi were on the way to the press conference room together, that was won by Alfie Hewitt and Gordon Reid in straight sets over Martin de la Puente and Stefan Uday.

36:47Matt Roberts: And that makes it, wait for this, a seventh title in a row for Hewitt and Reid.

36:53David Law: That's amazing, isn't it? It is quite something watching them, because the opponents started well and got a break back and got a 2-all, and the crowd was singing their names, and you thought, oh, I wonder whether this might end up being a really tight contest, and then suddenly went to this press conference, come back, and sort of 6-2-4-1.

37:16Matt Roberts: It's a good vibe out there, wasn't it? I think caught 40, I mean, I know, you know, I'd like to see, just as a matter of principle, these matches go on the biggest stages, but it was a really cool vibe out there on Court 14, which does have...

37:29David Law: Great court.

37:29Matt Roberts: Yeah, it's got a decent amount of seating and pretty much always creates a great vibe. The quad wheelchair doubles title was also, or final rather, was played today, and the title went to the top seeds, Guy Sasson and Niels Vink, over Sam Schroeder and Gin Woodman. In terms of the doubles, we've had three of the four women's and men's doubles semifinals today. Both sets of top seeds made it through to the finals with straight sets wins. Tough scene for David and Matt here, the Defani superfans, because Gabby Dabrowski and Luisa Stefani won just one game against Taylor Townsend and Katerina Siniarkova.

38:11David Law: We all have off days. And also Townsend and Siniarkova are great, aren't they?

38:16Matt Roberts: I do feel like they could do that to anyone.

38:18David Law: I think we can forgive that.

38:20Matt Roberts: They will be facing Danilina and Kroonich in the final, who, of course, lost the first major final of the year in Australia. So back-to-back finals for them. I'm sure they'd like a different result in this one. I'm sure Kroonich's speech will be good, regardless of its trophy she's holding. She always delivers. And in the men's doubles, we had Henry Patton and Heli Avara win through to the final yesterday. And we now know that they will face the top seeds, Marcel Grenoes and Horatio Zabajos. In that final, they beat Simone Bilelli and Andrea Vavasori. Vavasori must have been bringing down the average age on that court quite considerably.

39:00Matt Roberts: How old is Simone Bilelli? He's in his late 30s. I think he's 40.

39:07Catherine Whitaker: I think he might be in his 40s. Yeah, I think he might. His age might start with a four.

39:11Matt Roberts: Is he, David, older or younger than Edouard Roger Vasselin?

39:16David Law: I'm going to go younger.

39:18Matt Roberts: Because Roger Vassanai is 42, folks.

39:21David Law: Lely is 40.

39:23Matt Roberts: A mere 40.

39:25David Law: So I was wrong and then I was right.

39:29Matt Roberts: Nothing compared to Stefan Uday, the wheelchair men's doubles finalist. 55?

39:34David Law: Correct.

39:35Matt Roberts: Unreal. OK, that's it for other results today. We'll let you know who wins the junior titles finals for the juniors taking place over the weekend, of course. What have we got tomorrow? you know what we've got tomorrow we have got the women's singles final who saw this coming two weeks ago folks well we start of course as I just said with the men's doubles final Granoja Zabajos against Heliovara Patton that is at 11am local time and then 3pm it is Maja Walinska against Mira Andrava

40:12David Law: oh I'm so looking forward to it

40:14Matt Roberts: what do we think David

40:15David Law: I think Andreeva's going to win. I think she's perhaps a little immune to what Falinska is able to do and has been doing to everybody. Because Andreeva is just so good at changing the pace herself and responding to things. And she's got hands and she's got lobs. And I just think she's the better player. I mean, certainly her pedigree is that much better. There's a reason she's ranked inside the top 10 and Velinska's not. You know, it's, I hope, I hope they both play well. I'd love it to be a great match because I think it could look wonderful. You know, the rallies that these two would be capable of constructing are rallies I want to see.

41:05David Law: I just don't want to see it totally one-sided. I mean, look, if Andrava pulls that off and dominates, all credit to her. But I'd love to see a close one. Matt?

41:16Catherine Whitaker: Sorry to be boring, but I do agree with David. But then with the caveat that I've thought a few times that Havlinska might lose here, surely the spell's going to be broken, someone's going to figure it out and that rankings gap is going to tell. But I do think Andreeva is well set up with her game to cope with what will be coming at her in terms of the looped ball, the short ball, the variety. She's got great hands herself. I think the biggest question mark for me is in terms of whether Andreva can handle the moment and the occasion. Because I think if you'd said a few months ago that Andreva would play a Grand Slam final where she's the heavy favourite against an opponent who has an awkward game against a crowd that's probably going to be going for the opponent, I would have thought that that sounded like a bit of a nightmare.

42:24Catherine Whitaker: Because even this year, we've seen Andreeva struggle in some tight moments. But I suppose I'm banking on the improvements that she's made and the mindset that she's got now and the ability to handle that. And that's what I think will get her over the line. I'm not saying it's going to be totally plain sailing. I think there could be awkward moments for her. But I do think it's Andreeva's time.

42:54Matt Roberts: I have a little feeling for Linske, you know. Not because I disagree with anything you've said. I think, you know, obviously Mir Andreeva is objectively the better player. I also think her game specifically, as you've both broken down, matches up well with Linske. I think she has the neutralisers and I think she has... I don't think she's as susceptible as what, for example, she was doing to Diana Schneider yesterday. And she's got a bigger toolkit than Schneider. But I still can imagine her being very annoyed and frustrated by it nonetheless. And she is 19 and it wasn't that long ago that we had big question marks.

43:42Matt Roberts: It was this clay court season that we had serious question marks about her temperament still.

43:46David Law: Very good point.

43:47Matt Roberts: And I think the crowd are going to be French player-esque. I really think it could be quite an atmos in there tomorrow. And I think this is... If Androva does this, being the heavy favourite in all of those circumstances, then wow. Wow.

44:08David Law: That's quite compelling, isn't it? What Catherine just said there.

44:12Matt Roberts: That Boisson match was...

44:14David Law: Do you think it's going to be that level, though?

44:15Catherine Whitaker: Because I don't.

44:16Matt Roberts: I mean, I think that... No, it's not quite going to be Boisson. That was crazy. I don't think they'll be, like, out of order. Well, I mean, they were trying to putter off, weren't they? Yeah, they were. I don't think they'll cross that line. And the roof was closed in that match, and I think that sort of hot-housed the atmos.

44:35Catherine Whitaker: And finals generally have a...

44:37Matt Roberts: Yeah, it's more corporate, isn't it? It's generally less rowdy than the rest of the tournament.

44:41David Law: I could imagine, though, if Felinska gets off to a good start and plays the brand of tennis that she plays, even if it was two games all or something, if she's playing the sort of tennis she does...

44:51Matt Roberts: She takes them with her. It's so beguiling, isn't it? Yes. You end up being...

44:56Catherine Whitaker: She's going to have the crowd, I'm sure. I just don't think it's going to be...

45:00Matt Roberts: Finals at Moss, yeah.

45:01Catherine Whitaker: ...was on levels.

45:02David Law: No, and really, even in that semi, I mean, I know Kostya didn't get off to a good start, but Andreeva just handled everything. I mean, it does seem like something has happened, like she has learned something over the last couple of months that has clicked.

45:18Matt Roberts: And I have always had faith in Andreeva to iron out that element of her game. I didn't think it would likely plague her forever. I've always been very conscious that she's a teenager still and she has the right people around her. She has time and the right influences, and I think those two things are enough. And she seems, you know, like a smart cookie. I didn't expect it to happen within weeks. Like, to go from some scenes that we've seen in, what, April? I feel like maybe was the last time we saw, like, a pretty bad Andreva meltdown. What might I have been thinking of there? I feel like I have a not-too-distant memory.

46:02David Law: Well, there was the one where she was saying, I'm going to choke. Yes, but she did win that match anyway. And I'm not a champion and things like that. The Linz final? Just getting very upset, really, with things.

46:12Matt Roberts: To go from that to winning this Grand Slam in the conditions that she'll have to do it tomorrow with being totally expected to win and the awkwardness of the Filinska game, well, I will be doffing my cap to her.

46:29David Law: I think the main other thing to just put, it's a bit like Zverev, really. They can only beat who's in front of them, but she should beat her. And that's not to take anything away from Ferdelinska, but it's more just the pressure is less likely to come because you're not having to play Shviontek, Rebacanek, Sabalenka, Goff.

46:51Matt Roberts: If this was the first round of Stuttgart next year, I wouldn't hesitate to pick Androiva to win it. but it's the Roland Garros final.

47:01Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, and there's also the scenario where Hovinska plays really well, maybe takes the lead, and all along she's talked about being in this bubble and not feeling the moment and all that kind of thing. But I just think she'll feel the moment if she gets there and suddenly a Grand Slam title is within reach. How does she respond to that as well? as much as how does Andreeva respond, which I think is the bigger question going in because she's the favourite and everything we've just talked about. But I think that could potentially turn during the match if Havlinska is close to winning. Suddenly she's going to feel the moment.

47:44David Law: Personally, I'm more worried about her at the start of the match. Based on what I saw yesterday of the way she just... I mean, that second set was a massive test of her. She's a set-up. She's a set-away from a Grand Slam final. And she didn't dip for a second. Are we at all worried about her physically?

48:01Matt Roberts: I'm worried about the fact that she definitely had a cold yesterday. You know, that could have worsened. How much has she been hanging out with Matteo Arnaldo?

48:10Matt Roberts: They at least haven't been seen in the press conference room together, which is not the case for all of the Roland Garros finalists.

48:20Catherine Whitaker: She did have the physio out.

48:22Matt Roberts: Yeah. Oh, no.

48:22Catherine Whitaker: You know, she's played nine matches. I know most of them have been straight sets, you know, but that's on my mind. And I agree about the start as well. The stillness of a Grandstand final. I always talk about it. It's not quite as still as the Wimbledon final, but it's pretty still.

48:38Matt Roberts: And things are just different, aren't they? So different. Someone carries your bag.

48:42Catherine Whitaker: Everyone's in at the start in a way that they're not always for every other match.

48:46David Law: I don't know whether they still do it, but they certainly at Wimbledon, I think they used to give them a bouquet of flowers flowers to walk onto the court with.

48:53Matt Roberts: I think they do. And I think they do it for the men now. Right. Because hashtag equality, a bit like the way Madrid's response to being accused of sexism for having model ball girls was to have model ball boys as well. We'll give the men some flowers. OK.

49:14Catherine Whitaker: By the way, I've just seen on the screens here that the documentary In the Shadow of Giants, looking back on the Alcaraz-Sinna final last year is going to be shown on the screens on Longlen and in the area by Court Simone Mathieu. Do you think that's their...

49:31Matt Roberts: Do you think they're going to do it during the men's singles final this year as like an alternative?

49:36Catherine Whitaker: I think that's their alternative entertainment for tonight, given the lack of men's semi-final. They still get a refund. Potentially also an alternative on Sunday, depending on how things are going.

49:47Matt Roberts: Or tomorrow, if Vrilinsk is in. Well, yeah. It's going well, isn't it? Just roll it out. Look, it's good to have a backup, isn't it? Okay.

49:56Catherine Whitaker: David said last night that he watched some Alcaraz Sinner.

49:58David Law: I did. I watched last year's tiebreak, the final set tiebreak at two in the morning.

50:03Matt Roberts: It was great. It was great, wasn't it? Oh. Okay, folks. It is the Bashir portion of the show, which apparently now is a portion of the show where we make, you know, startling revelations about our childhood pets. Have we got any to make? Any confessions, David?

50:21David Law: My first childhood pet was called Simon, and he was a little blue and white budgery car.

50:28Matt Roberts: You had a bird? Yes. You were a bird guy.

50:31David Law: Yeah, I was, yeah. And then we had one called Georgie, who was absolutely vicious.

50:37Matt Roberts: Was it you and your sister that wanted a budgie? Or was it a parent thing? Were they into birds?

50:42David Law: I think it was all of us, mainly because my dad was allergic to sort of dog hair and stuff. That's a shame. At least that's the excuse I was given for not having a dog when I was desperate for one. And then after Georgie sort of tried to bite my finger off, several, like if you went near the cage, it'd be like jaws coming towards you. And then we had another two called Starsky and Hutch, named after the old TV show. I think that might have been it.

51:13Matt Roberts: They lived very long, these birds. I mean, they don't live that long.

51:16David Law: I think the best you can get out of them is about eight years, something like that.

51:21Matt Roberts: I mean, parrots can live for decades, can't they?

51:24David Law: Yeah, these ones didn't. I don't know what we were doing wrong.

51:29Matt Roberts: So you were asking for a dog and your parents just persistently kept buying you budgery girls.

51:35David Law: Apparently, my mum says that you were either going to be called David or Simon, but we'd already called the budger Simon. Simon. So Simon was there before you.

51:48Matt Roberts: Wasted their favourite name on the bird.

51:51Catherine Whitaker: It turns out.

51:54Matt Roberts: You were never going to be a Simon. That doesn't feel right to me. I know. I mean, apparently I only associate with David's and Matt's, so where would I be now if you had been called Simon?

52:04David Law: Your dad and your brother.

52:05Matt Roberts: Yeah.

52:06David Law: Amazing.

52:08Matt Roberts: Bashir, thank you so much for providing a jumping off point for these enlightening pet stories. Bashir is reflecting the mood of today by looking a little bit glum. Bashir has a face for everything. Hello to our mascots. Hello, Bodie, Maisie and Roger. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Geoff. Matt, let's have some shout-outs.

52:34Catherine Whitaker: We have Chris Wilkes from Tucson, Arizona.

52:39Matt Roberts: Hello, Chris.

52:40Catherine Whitaker: All right, Chris.

52:40Matt Roberts: A lot like Chris Wilkinson. Yeah, very similar. And like Chris, our executive producer and top folk.

52:47Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, absolutely. And Wilkes, a bit like Hannah Wilkes, but with an E.

52:51Matt Roberts: Ah, so.

52:52Catherine Whitaker: Different pew. Chris says, I don't have a television anymore, so the podcast is my only avenue for tennis now, but your discussions are so informative and passionate that I barely miss watching it. Lies. These are lies. I miss it terribly. But the rest is true. I was a lifelong Rafa fan and have transferred my affections to Carlitos. Do you think he knows what Carlitos looks like?

53:18Matt Roberts: Or has he only heard us describe him?

53:20Catherine Whitaker: After we describe him, yeah. Who can say? He doesn't say when he no longer had a television.

53:28Matt Roberts: I don't know if that means... Lots of people don't have TVs these days because they watch TV on their devices. I don't know if that means I don't watch any TV either on a physical TV or on a device. I've got lots of questions, Chris.

53:44Catherine Whitaker: Well, not watching tennis anyway.

53:45Matt Roberts: Yeah.

53:46Catherine Whitaker: Anyway, we're absolutely delighted to have you as a friend of the tennis podcast.

53:50Matt Roberts: What a compliment. Thank you, Chris.

53:51Catherine Whitaker: I feel like I need to up my description game. I don't. Yeah, David's got that covered. we also have a shout out for Isaac Lowe from London hello Isaac who says hey tennis podcast love the show and thank you for keeping me entertained during my marathon training runs you may remember a shout out for Ada Taggo just over a year ago that was sponsored by me Isaac because I lost our Grand Slam Predictions tournament in 2024 happy to report I managed to come out on top this year My secret was to stop predicting one-handed backhand players to go deep, despite my love for them. Thanks for the great show, and hopefully you'll hear from me next year as Ada and I are doing the same bet again this year.

54:39Matt Roberts: I love that vibe between Isaac and Ada.

54:41Catherine Whitaker: Oh, it's marvellous.

54:44Matt Roberts: They're dividing their head-to-head evenly, like Alcaraz and Sinner.

54:48David Law: Yeah. Isaac like Isaac Price, the West Bromwich Albion footballer. I know that's not relevant to many tennis podcast listeners, but anyway. That's the second time you've brought him up today. Jez will be delighted. He works for Albion and he's a listener. And Lowe, which is what the French sometimes call me, Mr Lowe.

55:12David Law: Happens all the time. Does it happen this time? Happens all the time.

55:19Matt Roberts: Your alter ego is Simon Lowe. Yes.

55:23David Law: Sounds quite good, that.

55:26Matt Roberts: OK, Isaac, thank you for allowing us to learn yet more about David Law.

55:32Catherine Whitaker: And finally, we have Reggie.

55:36Matt Roberts: Reggie! Go on, Reggie.

55:38Catherine Whitaker: Reggie's actually been getting predictions. Well, on that note, Reggie says, I crunched some numbers. And it turns out at the time of writing, which was a week ago, I'm on a 12 % accuracy with my predictions, with 15 out of 123 correct. Reggie says, surprisingly good. I think given how bold Reggie goes with his picks,

56:05Matt Roberts: and we're talking as bold as it gets, I think that's pretty good.

56:08Catherine Whitaker: And considering he got the first about 20 wrong. Bold's generous, is a description.

56:15Matt Roberts: He has a very specific tactic, doesn't he?

56:17Catherine Whitaker: He always goes for the one that's worth the most or almost the most points. He never goes for a banker.

56:23Matt Roberts: I'm going to call Manuel Sarundolo in five. The one that got away. That prediction had Reggie's name all over it and he fumbled.

56:32Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, he was annoyed about that. He says, I can't come to Wimbledon so much now that I'm a teacher, but I will be finding any excuse to put the tennis on in class for the children. Good lad.

56:43Matt Roberts: That's education. Yeah. That's a true education.

56:45Catherine Whitaker: Teach him about tennis, that's what it's all about.

56:47Matt Roberts: Being taught about tennis by the spirit of Wimbledon himself. Reggie Bodle.

56:51Catherine Whitaker: Those kids don't know how lucky they are.

56:52David Law: Well, he's always got his selfie with Roger Federer to show them from last year.

56:57Matt Roberts: Thank you, Reggie. You are a shining light in all our lives, and we hope to see you at Wimbledon this year. Thank you to all of our friends of the Tennis Podcast, and shout out once again to Reggie, Chris, and Isaac. If you'd like to become a friend of the pod, then the link, as always, is in our show notes. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. Thank you for listening. We will speak to you tomorrow.

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