French Open Day 14 - Andreeva’s dream comes true

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1:14Hello and welcome to the tennis podcast on Women's Finals Day at the 2026 French Open,

1:21Matt Roberts: a day that has seen 19-year-old Mira Andreeva crowned a Grand Slam champion for the first time. She beat qualifier Maja Kvalinska 6-3, 6-2. And if Matt sounds at all down about this turn of events, it's because he's just had the microphone rudely yanked out of his hand by Mira Andreeva in a Conchita Martinez press conference.

1:45Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, it's OK. It went better than that sounds, I would say. I still managed to get my question in. And it was one of those things I could see happening in slow motion. I had the microphone in my hand, ready for the last question in English. And Drava giddily entered the room and I thought, oh no, I'm going to be involved in some kind of exchange, some sort of content potentially. Didn't want any of that, but it was okay. She asked her a question. I got the chance to ask mine and everyone's happy. I'm not quite as happy as Mira and Drava though. I so recognised the look on Matt's face, which was, I'm about to become content against my will.

2:24David Law: Yes. He's given it to me a lot. You're going to be on tennis TV, bro. Yeah, that was the energy. But no, it was a lovely moment. And Matt was a lovely cameo in it. I certainly got a lot of fun from it. In Mira Andreva's press conference, David, she said a lot of lovely things. but one of the things that stuck with me was what she said in I think her first answer actually to you

2:50Matt Roberts: or certainly the answer to the first question from the floor. There was an opening one from the moderator but she said this feels better than I even dreamed and I thought this is a fourth French Open so okay that's not a long time coming but it's not come out of the blue. She's had time to build up to this and figure out what it means and how hard it is and put herself in a place to really process and enjoy this. But it's not been so long a quest or struggle that all she can fear is relief. We see that a lot in Grand Slam champions, don't we, where the overwhelming feeling is just one of relief and exhaustion.

3:28Matt Roberts: It felt like the absolute sweet spot of pure joy, quite frankly, and it was lovely to see.

3:34David Law: Yeah, I can imagine if Zverev were to win tomorrow, his would mostly be relief. I think there would be obviously joy, but mostly relief. we had a question from friends of the tennis podcast during a live show not that long ago when we were asked about emma raducanu winning as early as she did and where the sweet spot is you know what would you rather win at the start of your career or the end of your career and actually i think andreva's as it's turned out is probably perfect because she's still only 19 but she's been kind of around for three years she's got used to the tour she's got used to the life and she's it's it's not just this bolt from the blue that will just overwhelm her life she seemed ready for this in just about every way which actually is quite a pretty breakneck turnaround considering where she was only a couple of months ago I think she lost at four successive tournaments she lost in a deciding set and she'd been kind of up in all the sets you know and it was it it was it seemed like a real problem for her it almost seemed like her wind or her sun you know um and then this tournament that hasn't happened at all and that's great credit to i mean look she hasn't played maybe some of the players that might have forced her into those tense moments but mainly because she's just sort of handled it I mean it was Lois Brasson a year ago and that wasn't a household name or a top 10 player she's just she's just dealt with everything I mean there was a particular moment today in the second set when she was serving for the title and she lost the serve and you know you wondered didn't you but after she sat down she ran out and I remember thinking, OK, this is a bit like when Jakub Mnichik ran out of the changing room yesterday.

5:30David Law: You feel like the body language is telling you I mean business. And I just think something's clicked. Something has clicked these last month or so. I actually think the fact that she's won these seven matches, she's won this Grand Slam, being the favourite in every single one of those matches is a bigger mental triumph for her than had she been the underdog in one or two of the later matches. Even when she's been having these mental struggles, she's performed really well in the matches against Sabalenka and Shontek. She beat Sabalenka to win Indian Wells last year, didn't she? I can't quite remember where it was, but she had a great win over Shontek during a similar period as well.

6:12I've always backed her to not necessarily win all of those, but really show up and lock in. but it's in matches like today where I've had my questions and look, Conchita has too and Mirandreva has had them about herself Conchita Martinez before Mirandreva entered the press conference room and changed the tone of the whole thing before Matt said, let's talk about Linz for a moment

6:37Matt Roberts: Incredible Yeah, one of the things she said, it was the question I asked her but it was your question, David David gave me a question to ask because he heroically came out here and set up all our recording equipment for us. She said, look, something had to change in Mira Andreja before she was ready to do this. And I said, did that change happen before the tournament then? Like, you're kind of coming into this tournament thinking, right, she's ready now. The thing that I've been waiting for has clicked into gear. And she said, no, it happened during the tournament. Really? She called it a work in progress throughout the fortnight.

7:17David Law: Wow, isn't that fascinating? But it has kind of felt like that. She's felt like a really convincing player throughout this tournament. And just the odd occasion, she's had a little bit of adversity. She's just seemed locked in. And that answer she gave a couple of days ago about seeing the hairs on the ball, the fuzz of the ball, you know, the way she locks in on that as a way to concentrate. I mean, that's, you know, it's something I think a lot of people do in sport and sports psychologists would tell you to do stuff like that, wouldn't they? And it really seems to have worked. And there was a lot that could have thrown her off from that hyper-focus locked-in mode today.

8:03Obviously a very awkward opponent, but the wind. I mean, my God, the wind today. I kind of loved watching the challenge of this match for both players. It didn't develop into the match that it sort of had the promise of being in the early stages. But in those early stages, watching how extreme the wind was, I thought it could be a disaster for both of them, quite frankly. The fact that Andrejeva managed to produce tennis of any quality, and actually incredible quality, I think is masterful, quite frankly.

8:39Catherine Whitaker: I was nervous watching the warm-up. The ball was moving sideways. It was a tough scene. It was moving so much. And both players were really pushing the ball, but also struggling for their timing. And then the first point of the match was a double fault from Kvalinska. And I was clenched, you know. I thought, oh, my goodness, is this going to be one of those really tough-to-watch Grandstand finals where both players are nervous. and can't play their best. And actually the opening stages were the most compelling of the match because that was the moment where I think Andreeva was tight. You know, like she was suddenly faced with a ball she hadn't experienced all week, looped up, sliced, quite a lot of drop shots in those early stages, no pace on it at all.

9:32Catherine Whitaker: And when you're nervous, it's incredibly difficult to play an opponent like that. you end up not swinging through the ball at full speed, not putting your whole body into it, just arming the ball, and you get caught in the rallies that you don't want to be caught in. And I felt like in those opening stages, it was going about as well as Kowalinska could possibly have hoped for, because it was even. She wasn't serving well. Her serve was a disaster, really, but neither was Andreeva. So that meant that there was a kind of even footing, and it was actually Kowalinska who held serve first to go up 3-2.

10:11And at that point, it's weird to say it now,

10:14Catherine Whitaker: that it then became such a dominant win for Andreeva. But at that point, I really thought there was jeopardy in this match and I really thought it could be tight. But what Andreeva then did for the... I think she won 10 games in a row from that point. She suddenly opened her shoulders and played with much more freedom, started hitting the ball down the line. I think exploited how tired Kowalinska was after this run and played like a dream, really, for ten games or so in those tricky conditions when the wind was still up. She managed everything. She managed the crowd. You know, it was goosebumps when I went out to Chatre and saw all the Polish flags just appearing in the crowd.

10:59Catherine Whitaker: It really overwhelmed you. You thought, wow, they're dotted around everywhere. Matt and I were stopped by a Polish fan while you were in Carrefour buying biscuits this morning, David. Matt and I were waiting on the street outside and a Polish fan was just asking people, does anyone have a ticket for Chaturé today that they want to sell? Wow. So Andreeva had so much to deal with, is basically what I'm saying, and did it wonderfully, as she has done all tournament. Yeah, I mean, look, to break it down to the real rudimentals for Linska, I do, you know, physically she looked tired today. I do think you feel more tired when the scoreboard's not going your way.

11:41You see Jakub Mensik yesterday, but it was the serve, wasn't it? She held serve once today. 46 % win percentage on her first serve, 18 % on the second serve. Like, you just don't win tennis matches with those stats. And as Matt said, it was kind of okay in the opening stages because Andreeva was struggling so much as well. But as soon as Andreeva ironed that out, she had to do the same. And she was just unable to today. The serve was totally exposed.

12:12David Law: Yeah, to get to 3-2 up, the noise that greeted that moment for Linska was absolutely astonishing. I mean, it went right, goosebump stuff, you know. And it would have been very easy, I think, for Andreeva, who wasn't really hitting a stride then. I felt she was reacting to Valinska's game, you know, reacting to the variety, trying to counter the drop shots and that sort of thing. And it was really only when she got a bit more comfortable and started to just impose her superior power and shot making. I mean, look, there's a reason one of these players is eight in the world and the other one was 114.

12:52David Law: and look, Valinska's going to be way higher than that and I think she's got a game that can actually cause people problems in the future too. I don't necessarily think she's going to be doing this every year but it is a tricky game and she's clever. I actually think she sort of lost her way a little bit. I think she needed to bring the drop shots back and the slice back. She sort of went into a little bit too much of a mode of the loopy shots and Andreeva adjusted to them. But, yeah, I mean, the conviction behind her ground strokes ultimately. And, you know, she's got this big serve. You don't think, oh, Mira Andreeva, big server.

13:37David Law: But she's one of the biggest. She might not be Rebecca, but she's not actually that far off. And as time goes on, I think she's going to be... The potential is there for her to become more dangerous than she is right now. and what an athlete as well you know I always think the wind shows up who the best athletes are no she's not she doesn't have those trademark tiny ballerina steps that Svantec has I mean not far off and she's not I mean nobody's the athlete that Coco Gough is but I feel like she's kind of she's got the blend of everybody's athleticism she seems so it's like she has springs in her shoes it always looks like to me she's so light on her feet and she's a she's a tall player like seeing her burst into the press conference room and sit behind matt i was like oh my goodness she's she's big and she's strong and suddenly you're like wow i i see where all that power on the on the serve comes from and it's i don't know it's it's a bit it's a bit deceptive maybe because of how young she is in the face.

14:43You know, she's actually got this incredibly strong, mature frame, I think. Her athleticism reminds me a bit of Steffi Graf, although I'm not sure I actually have any of my own memories of Steffi Graf. I think maybe that's from YouTube. But that kind of, the springiness on the surface reminds me a bit of that. I do love watching her. I really do. She's got so much in the toolkit.

15:10David Law: Yeah, I love watching her too. And I'm mainly just happy that she seems to have, maybe it's only short term, but it feels like she's found a bit of a solution to the tail spinning and the getting upset on court. I'm not saying that won't happen in the future, but I do feel like she's figured something out. I mean, even the fact that she said in the press comments, I've started trying to impersonate Roger Federer, not in terms of his strokes, but in terms of his demeanour, because I don't want to look like this on court, this sort of, these shows of petulance, really. It sounded to me like somebody that has either chosen to or been told or asked to watch herself back when she's having a meltdown.

15:55I've heard some friends who are parents say that sometimes if their child, young child, is having, like, a total meltdown, they'll film them. And, you know, at a calmer moment in the future, they'll play it back to them. Just so you know, this is what that looks like. Up to you what you want to do.

16:18Catherine Whitaker: Being turned into content against their will. I can relate. Up to you what you want to do with that information. But just, you know, just so you know, that's what it sounded like had happened to me. And that is, you know, we all know what it's like when you suddenly see yourself or hear yourself do anything. Right. Like I remember in tennis lessons at school, which were utter shite. I can't believe my school even bothered with tennis lessons. We didn't even have a school field. We had to get a bus to Reading University. And anyway, I remember one day the awful sports teacher got the camera out and filmed us all serving.

16:58And nobody in my class could play tennis. This was not an athletic school, folks. No. And I thought, well, this is going to be great for me. I'm going to shine here. And the horror of watching it back, I can feel it in my bones now. It was awful. Anyway, all of which is to say I totally understand why that sort of thing can have a really big impact on someone. Yeah. Yeah.

17:29Catherine Whitaker: And look, I think the other important thing that Martinez said in the press conference is that there's probably still going to be ups and downs. You know, like I don't think it's necessarily gone from her as a player forever that she's going to be really calm on court and going to respond to all pressure that she ever faces in a really controlled way. Like, she is still only 19. And kind of like we talked about with San Belenka the other day, sometimes these things are entrenched in you, and it's not necessarily about getting rid of it completely. It's about dealing with it and handling it. And she seems better equipped to do that than ever, and I'm sure will be even better from this experience.

18:18Catherine Whitaker: but if we're seeing those sorts of tensions between her and the box or losing leads or not responding well to pressure in the future, hopefully this tournament will serve as a reminder for her and for everyone that, OK, that might happen, but she can overcome it and still be the great player and champion that she is. So I thought that was an important point that Martina's made. Like, it's still a work in progress. It kind of is for everyone all the time, isn't it? And she was very keen to gently tamp down any talk of world number one or now suddenly becoming a dominant force. You know, she is number one in the race now, Mira Andreeva, by more than 400 points over Irina Sabalenka.

19:13She's played a lot more tournaments, I think, and I do wonder if that will be something she'll look at longer term. Like this clay court season, they've obviously been the right scheduling decisions, but she has played a lot, I feel like, this clay court season.

19:29Catherine Whitaker: So much. She's obviously been, it's been a project and she's been working on it and wanting to keep momentum going and build on that, but that is not a sustainable long-term approach to schedule. Agreed, yeah, and I have felt in past seasons like she has burnt out a little bit. Last year, big time. Especially last year. And yeah, just to go on about Linz again, the reason I wanted to ask Martinez about that was because Martinez wasn't there in Linz and Andreva won the title. And I remember thinking at the time that that felt relevant. You know, like coaches are always saying, Darren Cahill, I've heard say this perhaps the best, my job is to set you free so you don't need me.

20:13It's like parenting, isn't it? Yeah.

20:16Catherine Whitaker: And it just felt like such a moment for Andreva having had a real... You know, there'd been a sort of blow-up, really, between her and Martinez during the Sunshine Double. It felt like a real moment for her to go out and win a tournament on her own when Martinez was on holiday. And she said today in the press conference, I was on the phone, obviously, I was talking to her, I was preparing matches for her, but on court she had no one to blame and that's good she was like yeah that was an important tournament and then okay we still saw little moments through the rest of the clay court swing Madrid in particular where she was seen saying I'm not a champion I'm not a champion I'm going to choke you know that was that was in Madrid which was only five or six weeks ago incredible how quickly we've come from here but immediately the clay court season was different to the rest of her season.

21:11Catherine Whitaker: She was winning more matches. Other than that match I've talked about in Madrid, she was generally calmer and it's all come together and worked out brilliantly for her at Roland Garros. But it's amazing how it's happened because I was teetering on whether to put her in the mix coming into this tournament and the doubt was not the tennis. The doubt was the mindset on court. And if you told me that her mindset on court would be brilliant, as it has been this tournament, I wouldn't have doubted putting her in the mix because the tennis is so good and she's just had a wonderful chance to express that this tournament, which has been great to watch.

21:51Catherine Whitaker: I asked you already what she asked Martinez. She asked Martinez, what's your favourite thing about coaching Mira Andreva? She did say her name in the third person, didn't she? She did. Yeah. And I think Uno featured in the answer. Yes, Conchita said, we get to play Uno and I always win. And Mira was quite disappointed by that. She was like, is that it? Is that all you've got? It was very tired parent, wasn't it, Conchita's answer. She was like, it was like, I know you think this is funny.

22:26David Law: I'm just trying to get through this. I want to get out of here and drink my champagne.

22:30Catherine Whitaker: Yeah. Someone's going to ask me about lint cinnamon. So Conchita Martinez has now coached two different women, two major titles. We think she's the first head female coach to ever do that. I feel pretty confident. So I feel like we would know about it if there were any others. And I hope it'll provide an example and a pathway for there to be more in the future. and I really don't think it's an accident that it has been a female coach and a female psychologist as well. I know a female psychologist that has worked with male players, very famously Andy Murray in the past. But, you know, a team with a lot of female energy in it that has been shepherding a young tennis player and a young woman through to, from girlhood to adulthood.

23:27I really don't think that's an accident. And it's so wonderful to see that bearing fruit.

23:35David Law: Yeah, it was Pam Shriver who reminded me today that she had coached two women to Grand Slam champions, the other being Garbini Magarutha. I had forgotten that, to be honest, which says a lot about her, I think, and how smart she is and how well she communicates with these players. I think that that is the absolute key. And I don't think it's any coincidence that a young woman is able to take a lot from an older woman who's had experience and who can understand things that a man just isn't going to be able to understand in quite the same way. That's not to say there aren't brilliant male coaches around.

24:19David Law: There are. And they've coached many women to many titles. but it feels like there's so much left on the table right now other female coaches who could be making a big difference and I do think that these sort of occurrences will yield further ones you know if you can see it you can be it the old Billie Jean King statement which seems so right and it normalises it as much as anything doesn't it It doesn't feel like some, you know, outlandish thing to do to hire a female coach. I mean, obviously, it's always been more normal in the women's game, but still shockingly unusual, I think, generally speaking.

25:04So big moment for that movement. Big moment for the dogs in player boxes and involved in trophy ceremonies movement. I'd say a seismic moment, actually. It's a movement now, is it? Yeah, I mean, it might no longer need to be a movement because today has done so much for the cause, David. Everybody's going with the lunar trophy shot, as will we be on our Instagram.

25:29David Law: Gotcha. Yeah, not Mira's dog. She has a Bernadoodle that...

25:35Catherine Whitaker: Raffi. Yeah, I think it's too big to bring on tour. I don't know if she considered that when she was choosing breeds. I love a Bernadoodle so much, but it's not a practical dog in terms of portability. But Luna, Conchita's dog, very portable and very amenable to a trophy ceremony. There's good Luna stuff out there, folks. Described as an 11-year-old grandma by Andrava when asked about her in press. So that was another nice moment. You two were in the Chfalinska press conference and I wasn't, was it an exhaling for Linska? Was she kind of... Did the floodgates open a little bit from her today?

26:23David Law: Not really. I think she takes it all in a stride. I think she's really cool. I mean, I think, yes, there was a bit of... Yeah, it's over now. There was a bit of that, yeah. But she came out with a couple of cracking lines, I thought. Right early on, she's been asked about the difference between her tennis this two weeks than the rest of her career, given she's 114 in the world, and she tried to qualify for this event three times and failed. And here she's in the bloody final after qualifying. She says, yeah, I don't really think I've played my best tennis these two weeks. OK, how good could you be?

27:04David Law: It was very funny. um you know she she she also talked about she was asked about playing on grass and she said she she sort of really made me a believer that this is somebody who can you know she said I was terrible on grass last year but usually I'm quite good on it and I kind of think it works with my spins and my movements and I can see that all the things that that I can do um she was asked about whether she had given any thought to getting a wild card at Wimbledon. How would she, you know, does she think she's going to get one? She says, you know, I don't know, but it would be the news of the century if I did, she said.

27:46David Law: But, and she says, but look, if I don't get one, I'll treat it as a challenge and go in the qualifying and I'll be excited to try it.

27:53Catherine Whitaker: Yes, and she said she's not going to play any warm-up events on grass. Like she said, I need a holiday. She said, I thought I needed a holiday before Roland Garros anyway.

28:06David Law: Probably a good job she didn't. Ibiza, here she comes. Right, yeah. With her 1.4 million euros. She is 21 in the live rankings. That'll probably slip a bit before Wimbledon, but she will be in a seeded position come Wimbledon. Do you think she will get a Wimbledon wildcard? Do you think she should get a Wimbledon wildcard? I read something on social media, and I realised that's a very dangerous thing to do, that quoted Tim Henman, who's on the Wimbledon Committee on TNT, saying he doesn't see why not, or something of that ilk. I may have slightly misquoted him there, but that was the jizz. It sounds like Tim.

28:51David Law: Yeah. A bit vague. I think she should be getting a wild card, absolutely. I think somebody who has just got themselves to 21 in the world and reached the French Open final should be given access to play in the Wimbledon draw.

29:06Catherine Whitaker: Yes. I agree. I think you can argue forever about what wild cards should be for, but I think capitalising on this moment, she's just got to a Grandstand final, I think she deserves a wild card. Do you think she will be? Do you get one? I'm going to say yes. David's got his own movement. I think so as well. I know people will point to Boisson, but I do think the final is a big difference maker there. It is. It's very different. I do too. I think it's a different kettle of fish. I do think there's going to be a Serena wildcard. I think there's going to be a Venus wildcard. And we've got, you know, Scott Lloyd having said, wildcards go to British players.

29:56I don't think it's a slam dunk. I think just about she probably will. But I reckon there will be some dissenting voices around that wildcard committee table.

30:10David Law: Yeah, maybe. I mean, personally, if it were between her or Venus for a singles wildcard, I'd be giving it to her now because Venus has had a lot of them in the last few years and absolutely no trouble with that at all. And I'd also probably, I'm not sure, I mean, if there's eight wild cards, is there something like that? I mean, you know, I think there's several for Brits. How many do you need to give? Maybe not all of them. It's almost like we need to have an existential debate about what on earth wild cards are for. Stick them in the quallies. Not now.

30:44Catherine Whitaker: Make them earn their place, I say. She did say that she's been so stressed the last three weeks, she's found, like, eating hard. Yeah, she couldn't eat a pizza. And she said, now I'm looking forward to, like, the joy of eating being back. And I thought that was the moment of real insight in terms of just how different this has been and this release now of the tournament finally being over. God, you enjoy Ibiza, Maya. Or wherever you're going, you enjoy it. And it is going to be fascinating now that she is ranked in the top 30 and she's going to be coming up against players that we know a lot more.

31:30Catherine Whitaker: And I think for a while that game style can be effective. It's such a breath of fresh air for us to watch because we don't see it a lot. And I think that's also partly why it can be effective because people are not used to it. I do think over time that just the power game will overtake a game like that. I don't think she's quite good enough at what she does to sustain a really top level in this power era. Especially on a hard court. Especially on surfaces other than clay, yeah.

32:09David Law: I think grass, I think the natural surface is you may get something out of it. Yeah, I certainly think the slice. You're going to make me say Laura Siegmund again, aren't you? But it is similar. Yeah? Yes. Disruptor, but... Tatiana Maria in her own way. Vulnerable to being overpowered.

32:27Catherine Whitaker: Yeah. A lot. And the thing about Tatiana Maria is when we watched her win Queens last year and beat all these power hitters, you think, wow, that's an amazing game. And then you look at her Wimbledon record and she had that one run. But otherwise she played Wimbledon a lot and not been that effective. You have to be so precise with a game like that in this era to actually make it work. And it's just not easy.

32:55David Law: I always remember Fabrice Santoro saying that, you know, that people kind of almost laugh at my game and the sort of unusual style of it. He says, but I have to play really well to get results with it. It's not just because it annoys the opponent. If I don't play it well, they kill me. Incidentally, Laura Siegman, potential first match for Amanda Onisimova. On a wet grass court. So, K-Mac, you're off to Chicago.

33:23Catherine Whitaker: Can't wait. OK, folks. Just to say, before we break for part one, if you are new to the pod, and there are a few new listeners around this parish, welcome.

33:34Matt Roberts: We are daily throughout all four of the Grand Sound tournaments. every year and at least weekly the rest of the time as well, often more. And if you want to listen ad-free, then that is one of the benefits offered with our subscription service Friends of the Tennis Podcast. For£6 per month or the equivalent in your local currency, you get ad-free listening plus a minimum of 24 bonus shows per year, including access to our full archive of bonus episodes to get you through the post-Grand Slam blues while Matt is swanning off to Chicago. go. As always, if you want to subscribe, the link will be in the episode notes for this show on your podcast app.

34:11Matt Roberts: Right, that's it for part one. Join us for more in part two.

34:15David Law: Today's show is brought to you by Vanguard. To all the financial advisors listening, let's talk bonds for a minute. Capturing value in fixed income isn't easy. Bond markets are massive, murky, and let's be real, lots of firms throw a couple of flashy funds your way and call it a day, but not Vanguard. Vanguard bonds are institutional quality. Institutional quality isn't a tagline. It's a commitment to your clients. It means top grade products across the board. Vanguard's been in the game a long time and their scale gives them a serious edge. They're able to invest across all kinds of sectors, maturities and geographies, which means they can spot and act on opportunities that others might miss.

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35:55We'll be right back.

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36:22Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast, where we have some more finals to talk you through from today's play here at Roland Garros, starting with Takedo Oda. He won six games in a row from three love down in the second set to defend his men's wheelchair singles title in a repeat of last year's final against Alfie Hewitt. Poor Alfie Hewitt, whose whole life is dedicated, it seems, to trying to beat this phenom, Takedo Oda and he's not getting further away I don't think it's not an uncompetitive rivalry it's not

37:03David Law: an unrivalry he's just not winning them David yeah and the thing is Takito Oda is not only getting better he's also becoming sort of more clutch now because he's playing so many of these finals he's getting used to winning them and it must be it must be mentally really challenging for Alfie to believe it'll be different next time I mean I think in his interview on the court afterwards he was really disappointed with his performance He said and bear in mind he hit 28 winners to 17 unforced errors

37:36Matt Roberts: in this match this was not an objectively poor performance from Alfie Hewitt he said I'm gutted with the performance it's not one I'm proud of.

37:44David Law: In a way if he believes that then maybe that will help him to keep going again because you've got to believe that there's a turning point out there, haven't you? And, yeah, fortunately, there's another grand slam around the corner. Yes. For him, anyway. But, I mean, Oda is what a superstar and what a player. Yeah, I'll say.

38:08Matt Roberts: Speaking of which, Dede Deghut is back, folks. Not only is she back, she has rang the death toll for Muscatare of the Day, quite frankly. I think she's killed it off. Not to take Muscatare of the Day away from Xenia Shastow, who's won it the last two days in a row, but Diderruchu beat her today. 6-1, 6-love. She won 52 points to Shastos 19. Now, look, Shastos day will come. This was a breakthrough tournament for her. She'd never reached a Grand Slam single semifinal before. She's 20 years old. She has all the time in the world ahead of her to win future musketeers of the day.

38:58David Law: And Grand Slam champions. But my God, she was shell-shocked today. Utterly shell-shocked. I mean, she shanked a second serve on match points. She was like, what the hell is this? Like, this is a player from another planet to anybody else I've played. And she's played good players.

39:18Matt Roberts: I think she took out the second seed in the semifinals. So pretty strong evidence that Dieder de Root is back. And I know a lot of you probably hear, you know, Dieder de Root winning a Grand Slam title, big deal. She's done that a million times before. This is a big deal. It was really in doubt about whether she would get back. She had very major hip surgery just less than two years ago after the Paris Olympics, and she hasn't even reached a Grand Slam final since then, or even a semi-final, I don't think, just a couple of quarterfinals. So this is absolutely massive for De Rue, and the complexion of women's wheelchair tennis has changed a lot since she was last at the top.

40:00Matt Roberts: There are youngsters like Chastot coming a lot. There's a group of Chinese young players as well. So whether she can be as dominant as she was before is going to be interesting to see, I think. But it's wonderful to see her back. It's a very uplifting story, if not for the beloved feature of Miss Guterra the day. It had a good run, folks. The top seed, Niels Vink, won the quad wheelchair doubles title, 6-3, 6-4 over the unseeded Ahmed Kaplan from Turkey. Vink's third French Open title, but is first for three years. So a big one there for Vink. We had the men's doubles title on Chatrier today. Started at 11 a.m.

40:46Matt Roberts: before the women's singles final. We watched some of this on the TV this morning. And it was the top seeds, Marcel Grenoilles and Horatio Zabayos, that defended their title with a 6-4, 6-2 win over the second seeds Henry Patton and Harry Heliovaro, as Abayo said on the court after the match. I'm 41 years old and this is one of the best moments of my career, so it's never too late for anybody.

41:11David Law: Oh, my kind of guy.

41:14Matt Roberts: Yeah, they've now won three of the last five slam titles, these two, and I think they lost their first three finals together, So they are, you know, good adverts for sticking at it and being late bloomers and always keeping believing. And they were dominant in today's final. It wasn't close.

41:37Catherine Whitaker: No, and against a very good pair, Patton and Haley Avara, who go to number one after this. And then we've got a stat in the newsletters, a newsletter plug about doubles tonight. and top seeds winning titles because we've had that in the mix, we've had that in the men's. We could get it in the women's tomorrow. So I've wondered how often that happens and the answer is in the newsletter. Good work. Lovely promo. Yeah. They'll probably go and lose tomorrow the number one seeds and render the stat meaningless. That's why you got it in today.

42:16Matt Roberts: Exactly.

42:16David Law: That's why we're going to be sending it out before then.

42:19Matt Roberts: The junior finals were today. Here are your names to look out for in the future. The boys' title was won by the top seed, Luiz Guto Michel from Brazil. He is 17 years old. Get this, he is nine days older than Moise Kwame.

42:37David Law: Oh, my goodness.

42:39Matt Roberts: He'd beaten another Brazilian in the semis, and today he beat American 13th seed, 16-year-old Michael Antonius. These are good names.

42:49David Law: Yeah.

42:49Matt Roberts: These are good names.

42:50David Law: I like the idea of a couple of additional Brazilians to answer the mix. Absolutely.

42:53Matt Roberts: That's fun, isn't it? Yeah, that's a really good prospect. He was the top seed, but he's not the junior world number one. The world number one is Ivan Ivanov from Bulgaria. He won junior Wimbledon and the junior US Open last year, but he's pretty much transitioned to pros now. He's started to play challenges, trains at the Nadal Academy, So it's kind of a legacy junior number one position because he's still got those points on his ranking, obviously. But yeah, name to look out for in the seniors in future. The girls title, this is a really interesting one. It was won by the 12th seeded Russian-born Czech player.

43:35Matt Roberts: Represents Russia, I think, but has lived in Czechia since she was two. Has lived and trained there since she was two years old. Alisa Octia Braver, 6-2, 6-1, over the second seed from China, Sun Jinran. Now, Octia Braver is 17. Sun is just 15. She started playing senior events, did Octia Braver, in 2024, but she had a long layoff with a really bad wrist injury and her ranking dropped way down. She was supposed to play qualies here, but didn't make the cut. and she was like, well, I'm free and I was planning to be in Paris. I'm eligible. So why don't I play the juniors? She said, I got this from the Roland Garros website.

44:20Matt Roberts: She said, I didn't plan to play juniors, but I was really sad that I couldn't play the women's main draw. So once I came back to training, I said to my coach, I want to play the juniors because it's Roland Garros. It has a special place in my heart. And I just said, let's go for the title. And that panned out pretty well. So a little cameo in the juniors. and now she'll be going back to playing the WTA 75s and those sorts of things, you know, trying to build a ranking.

44:46David Law: A bit like Felinska, just, you know, pitch up, go and reach the final.

44:50Matt Roberts: She probably didn't play her best tennis either. So that is your little tour of results from today. There is just one singles match and one doubles match to go here at Roland Garros 2026, and we'll be looking ahead to that in part three. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the 14500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most.

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46:09Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast, our penultimate tennis podcast from Roland Garros, 2026. We have two matches on the Chateaune schedule tomorrow. Of course, the men's singles final. We'll talk about that in a moment. Before that, at 11 a.m., the women's doubles final. Katarina Siniakorin, Taylor Townsend against Anna Dalinina and Alexandra Krunic. Are the top seeds, Siniakorin Townsend, Matt, going to win and put the cherry on top of your stat? I think they are. If you beat Defani, love and one, then you deserve to win the title in my mind. It's a strong case. OK, how about this men's singles final?

46:54Matt Roberts: Alexander Zverev in his fourth Grand Slam final, taking on Flavio Caballi in his first. There is a clear favourite here on paper. That's not up for debate. I guess the question here is how strong a case anyone feels like they can make for Flavio Caballi. It's a three-and-one head-to-head in Zverev's favour, two-and-one head-to-head on clay. They've won a piece this year. Zverev won their most recent meeting. on clay in madrid and caballi won the one shortly before that in the munich final so he's won one their one previous final meeting and it was recently and it was on clay i'm sure that will be in caballi's mind and he'll be doing selective tennis player memory of uh of the rest of their head-to-head the forecast the weather forecast is supposed to be dry intermittent sun bit windy but less than today, less chaos than today, I think.

47:52Matt Roberts: Matt, what do you think?

47:55Catherine Whitaker: It's hard, isn't it? Because those two matches you've just mentioned, Munich and Madrid, could barely have been more different, really. I mean, in Munich, Caballi was brilliant, firing winners all over the place, dominating the match, taking the racket out of Zverev's hand. He played brilliantly. and then in Madrid he was really flat, Caballi, and Varev absolutely dominated him, served him off the court, kind of left Caballi with nowhere to go and you look at that and you think, well, how am I supposed to use that data to work out what's going to happen? They're polar opposites.

48:42Catherine Whitaker: I've started to come round to Caballi Just because it's the upset slam. And, you know, I've been thinking in the last 24 hours, maybe Caballi can pull this off. The thing is, I've never thought Zverev would win a slam. And the reason is because I've always thought there'd be someone better than him in the draw. For a long time, that was, you know, Djokovic. And in the last few years, it's been Alcres and Sina. And they're not here. So all along this tournament, I've thought, well, I do think this is the one that Zverev's going to win because those guys are not here now. He still is. He's playing well.

49:22Catherine Whitaker: I think this is his time. This is the one that he wins. But then I've been starting to think, well, can Caballi just find that level? Not necessarily the level that Alkraza and Sinna have, but just a level a little bit above what Zverev's got and force Zverev out of his shell. That's what I'm interested in, because I think this tournament Zverev's not needed to do that. He's not faced too much pressure, a little bit in opening sets, but he's got through that well, and then he's basically cruised, and he's played players in the last couple of rounds who didn't have legs, Hodder and Mensik, and he's taken advantage of that, and he's absolutely deserved to win those matches easily.

50:04Catherine Whitaker: So you're piecing this together, and you think, well, Kabbali's got the legs. He and Zverev haven't played all that much tennis this tournament compared to everyone else. Cavalli didn't play a semi-final. And I do believe what we saw there in Munich is he's got a high level that can be just above maybe what Zverev's got in terms of explosivity and being electric. So that is going to force Zverev, I think, out of his shell. And the question is whether he steps up and does it. And all along, I've kind of thought in his career that he won't do that. so that's the case for caballi um but i i do think it's also possible that caballi can't find that level and it being a first grandstand final and in the end verev steadiness over the course of the match gets him through and i still ultimately come out on that side because i think caballi would have to play the match of his life over five sets to really push Zverev to those places, forcing him to come up with the plays.

51:11Catherine Whitaker: And I'm just not convinced that as good as Kabbali has been this tournament, I'm just not convinced he's going to quite be able to do that. So ultimately, I am going for Zverev to win this one, despite some thoughts for Kabbali in the last 24 hours. I found it very interesting what Gil Gross, the tennis analyst that I'm sure lots of you are aware of, really excellent kind of forensic technical analyst of the game, what he had to say on his podcast,

51:41Matt Roberts: he kind of broke down the three scenarios for this match. And he made the case more generally that we shouldn't read too much into Zverev's handling of the pressure on this opportunity from the matches he's played up to this point. Because finals, grandson finals, aren't that big a deal to him. that's not doing anything he hasn't done before. It's getting over this final obstacle that is the test for him. And he says the big question, the central question of this match, and this is something that I'd been sort of having vague thoughts along the lines of, but Gil crystallised it and expressed it in a way that was like, oh, yes, that's what I've been thinking.

52:24Matt Roberts: I just don't have the words for it. Thank you, Gil. He said the central question of this match is, is Kabbali good enough to create tension in the match? Like, can he, kind of the same as what Matt was saying, can he play well enough to find that top level to ask the question of Zverev? And he thinks, you know, scenario one is that the answer to that is no, and Zverev kind of cruises to this one. And that is, I don't think any of us think that is unlikely. But of scenario two and three, two being Kabbali plays well makes a match of it asks Zverev the question and Zverev stands up and has the answer to it and scenario three Kabbali plays as described and Zverev doesn't have the answer to it as he hasn't done three times in the past he thinks maybe scenario three is more likely than two in Gil's words the scar tissue for Zverev is no joke no I don't think it is I think there is a chance to make him panicky because I think he's supremely

53:32David Law: confident right now that he is going to win this title I think he believes in his own tennis and I think he has every right to because I think it is the best tennis I've seen him play here at running house I've seen him play well here before but there is a and and he hasn't had to play the players he's had to play in the past I mean listen you know he's had some really tough runs in this tournament in the past in terms of opponents he just hasn't had that this time because of the way things have fallen but he's playing well he's playing with conviction he thinks that and i think i think i would if i were him too that if if he if he turns up and plays the way he has he wins this title and there's nothing that caballi can do about it um my my question is whether caballi because i believe caballi can really find that level that you described that incredibly high electric level he's got he's like road runner with his legs the way he gets about the court he's a blur of speed he gets to crazy balls when he gets inspired he's got real pop and power on his ground strokes and he can hit drop shots he's got he's got a lot of game and he's got a good solid backhand so that he can stay in exchanges the thing for me is how does he come out does he come out scared does he come out frozen stressed all of these things would be totally understandable I was thinking that today Felinska when she walked out just the set piece nature of this thing it's so big it's so unlike any of the other days of the tournament final you know nothing else coming before and and I just I wonder how Cabali comes out because so far the two sets that we've seen Zverev lose in this tournament have been third sets he's been two sets up and Kontanlis has played well to win a tie break and then we've had Menchik take advantage of a little lapse maybe and playing better himself he wins a third set but that's that's not enough it's too far gone you're going to have to pull an amazing rabbit out of a hat to win from there and I watched the highlights and I watched live at the time of when they played here a year ago in the third round.

55:49David Law: And Zverev won the first set of that 6-2. Second set, Caboli was electric. He was amazing. And he probably should have won the set, but he lost it on a tie break. He had the crowd. He had the moments. He's doing the waving of the hands. You're watching him thinking he's a better player than Zverev. But he didn't win the set. And even if he had, he still got to win two more. I just think somebody needs to hurt Zverev early when Zverev is tense and when he isn't quite feeling it yet and put him on the back foot. And if he's on the back foot and if it doesn't immediately switch, then the stress can come in.

56:26Matt Roberts: Yeah, look, I have the same concern about how well Kabali will play tomorrow, how much time it might take him to settle and play well if he does at any point in the match. I do think it helps that he's not Kasparud facing Nadal here in 2022. We all know that footage, don't we, of him in the tunnel. Like, you know, the match was lost then, wasn't it? Nadal's doing his jumping jacks and Kasparud is shitting on his pants. Like, we can all see what's happening. Like, that was the Kasparud is not in the mix and there's only two of them left moment. So, Erich does not have that aura. like not I mean not even I mean nobody has Nadal's or Roland Garros but like it's not even close there isn't that element to contend with I don't think I don't think there's imposter syndrome relative to his opponent there is a bit of

57:18David Law: big brotherly stuff going on now which they're trying to yeah he's definitely doing the he's a nice kid stuff isn't he

57:29Catherine Whitaker: yes I think the fact little kid I think the fact that Caballi has a win over him helped with that a little bit, was a final. Look, I do agree with you about the first set. I think that's so crucial for Caballi to settle and to hurt Zverev when I think Zverev's going to be maybe at his weakest in the whole match. That's when he could be tight and when he could be just not... He's been a bit clunky in first sets the last few rounds. The thing is, in terms of the scenarios that you and Gil laid out, I do think there's a scenario where Caballi is good enough to create tension, but he's not good enough to sustain it.

58:07Catherine Whitaker: I think he can have lapses in a way that Sinu and Alcaraz don't. I know Alcaraz occasionally has lapses, but not to the extent, really, that Caballi does, and not in grandstand finals, big matches. When Alcaraz gets in those moments, he sustains it for longer. I could see a scenario where Caballi does hurt and does sting, and then has letdowns. And I could see Zverev just weathering those.

58:32Matt Roberts: As long as he does it early, though, you can afford a letdown in a best-of-five set match. I don't think you can if you don't do it until set three, as David described. But if he gets the first set...

58:43David Law: The second one is also possible, like if he levelled. But, you know, the problem is it's very hard not to have a letdown after winning a set if you've never really been in this position before. So I do think the first set is key. Just in terms of the tennis match-up,

58:57Matt Roberts: the athleticism of Gabali is so key, isn't it? Again, you know, listening to Gil Gross' podcast, it was a great breakdown of this. Like, he can afford to stay very deep on return.

59:09Catherine Whitaker: Make a lot of balls.

59:10Matt Roberts: Make a lot of returns because he's got the athleticism to reset, you know, to get back onto the baseline for the rally. And he can run around the backhand and hit, crucially, the inside in forehand, the one from the backhand corner down the line, rather than the one from the backhand corner cross court, the inside out forehand, which goes into Zvere's backhand and is not the play.

59:35Catherine Whitaker: Yeah. Again, to flip it in Zvere's favour, like Caballi's favourite serve goes to a right-hander's backhand. And he's been using that shot really effectively all tournaments, especially against Orjali Asim. You know, the kick serve to the backhand, you get a short reply and you're on top of the point immediately. That is not going to be happening if he's doing that to Zverev. I know he's got a very good kick serve, Kabali. Sometimes it will work, I'm sure. But a lot of the time Zverev is going to be getting that shot back deep on his baseline, on his toes and creating the sort of rallies he wants as well.

1:00:13Catherine Whitaker: That's a really interesting tactical element to me.

1:00:17Matt Roberts: Look, I think we all think likely Zverev will win. I just think there are sort of solid tennis reasons out there why we could get the final upset at the upset slam.

1:00:31Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, for sure.

1:00:33Matt Roberts: And just to say, before we end this segment of the show, we do know that a lot of people listening will find tomorrow difficult with Zverev being involved and the strong potential as we've just been discussing for him to win. It was ahead of the last final that he played here two years ago that he settled a case relating to domestic abuse charges brought by his ex-girlfriend and the mother of his child, Brenda Patea. The court at the time told The Athletic the decision is not a verdict and it's not a decision about guilt or innocence. Patea was the second woman to accuse him of domestic abuse after former girlfriend Olya Sharipova in 2020.

1:01:15Matt Roberts: Shripova did not pursue charges and Zverev has always denied all the allegations. As Ben Rothenberg wrote and reported in his substack this week, he said, for so many who care about domestic violence, Zverev's prominence and the way he's been continually embraced within the sport make tennis appear to be an unwelcoming and even hostile culture. Now, not everyone will feel discomfort tomorrow, but lots will, and the same is true in the press room. And just finally on this, if you are having difficult feelings and you are a friend of the Tennis Podcast, honestly, the barge is about as safe a space as there is to express those feelings.

1:01:59Matt Roberts: There's a whole community of wonderful tennis fans out there debating and discussing the sport with compassion and integrity and love. And it's a huge source of pride for us. So if you fancy it, I would encourage you to head there and we will put the link in our show notes. Right, the time has come for Matt to share whatever childhood pet anecdote you might have for us, Matt. You must have seen this coming.

1:02:29Catherine Whitaker: It's going to be disappointing. We just had fish. Tell us about the fish. There was a shop in the village that we could get the fish from. Are we talking tropical or are we talking gold? Gold. OK. They didn't last long. You know, you'd come down in the morning sometimes and, you know, one of them would be upside down. Did you give any names or...? I'm sure we did, but honestly, we had so many over the years. How were the dead fish disposed of? Were they unceremoniously flushed down the loo? There's no judgement here, that's how mine were. I think quite possibly. I know for a fact I never disposed of any of the dead fish.

1:03:11Catherine Whitaker: That does not surprise me. I don't know who did it. I suspect my dad. Okay. I suspect he took ownership of that. He was least keen on the fish generally, I would say. So he was probably most willing to get rid of them. Cleaning the tank is an absolute... Nobody tells you how crap that is, do they, when you're excitedly getting fish. And it does smell. It smells so bad. The filter stops working and it gets covered in grime and then the fish are floating at the top of the tank.

1:03:43David Law: Yeah. But then there's the good stuff. The good stuff is just fish are piddling about. They float about and you have a little chat with them.

1:03:52Catherine Whitaker: It was definitely nice for a while, but I think you go a bit bored of them. I got a tropical fish tank when I was about 13 and my God, I was excited. I wanted it so much. Nobody had told me about fin rot.

1:04:09David Law: We had a tropical fish tank as well Initially you only had the two fish Called Bit and Bot

1:04:19I've also just remembered Just to bring this round to Bashir And cats generally I've also just remembered that my brother got a newt And our cat Peanut ate it Overnight One morning my newt was gone so segue into Bashir there who I'm sure is far too angelic to have ever eaten any other beloved household pets I caught David just admiring a picture of Bashir this morning he went this really is a good cat that's what he said over his morning coffee

1:04:51David Law: he's got a face for every occasion yeah he's a what a mascot what a lovely boy

1:04:58Matt Roberts: hello to Bodie, Maisie and Roger and hello to our top folks and executive producers Greg, Chris and Geoff. Let's have some shout-outs, Matt.

1:05:07Catherine Whitaker: We have Matt and Ezra from Fulkirk, Scotland. Oh, wow. Hello, Matt and Ezra. Matt has been a listener since 2016 and Ezra is 18 months old. Oh! Starting to get into tennis or watch a game or two. Good lad. That's so lovely. Love it. Oh, 2016, so that's just pre-Matt. unless he listened to your debut at the US Open. That's also pre...

1:05:36David Law: That was 2017, was it? 2017, yeah. Matt used to get the odd mention in 2016 as student, Matt. Yeah, he was a mythical creature, mythical figure at that point.

1:05:45Catherine Whitaker: That was when I only knew you from WhatsApp. Oh, no, and Queens. We've done Queens. Like Jib. We only know Jib from WhatsApp. Yeah. Our editor. We love Jib. He's a tennis player now. We love Jib. Yes, it's Jib's one-year anniversary of playing tennis. He's looking for tournaments now. He said to play. I can't wait. Matt, as is evident, we love Matt's. So well done for being one. And thank you for being a friend of the Tennis Podcast. We also have Isabel Cantin from Montreal. Hello, Isabel. And Isabel would like to shout out her parents. My brother and I have loved tennis from a young age, Isabel says.

1:06:24Catherine Whitaker: And we would love to convince our parents, Renee and Jean, to come to a tennis tournament again. Our parents came to Wimbledon and the US Open, and both times it rained all day. Oh, no.

1:06:38David Law: Oh, come. That's tough.

1:06:40Catherine Whitaker: Renee, Jean, come. Yes, Isabel says, Please help us convince my dad third time's a charm, and live tennis is a game changer. Come on, Isabel's dad.

1:06:50David Law: Come on. You can do it. Lightning doesn't strike in the same place three times. That is scientific. Yeah. And honestly... And there's more roofs now. If you come to Ronagaros, It's just dreamy. Yeah. I'm telling you. Just don't get a men's semi-final single match session ticket. If Matteo and Aldi's playing. Yeah, it's a no-brainer. Got to do it.

1:07:16Catherine Whitaker: Yeah. Live tennis is the best. I always say I'm never unimpressed by the players when you're up close watching them live. You never go, oh, it's a bit crap. Yeah. They're unreal. Yeah. Hopefully that's done the trick. And finally, we have Clarissa Troop. Oh, hello, Clarissa. We know Clarissa. She's in our predictions competition this tournament. I'm certain she's doing better than me. Is she beating me? Everybody's beating me, aren't they? Clarissa, no, actually. Oh, really? I'm beating someone. She's one of the two below you, David. Excellent.

1:07:52David Law: I got seven points today, didn't I?

1:07:54Catherine Whitaker: Great. Yes, but we love Clarissa. she's lived in LA for a long time but now is in West Sussex and started listening to the pod properly during the Australian Open of 2020 what an interesting time to start listening

1:08:11David Law: just before the pandemic

1:08:14Catherine Whitaker: and Roland Garros is a slam that she's not yet been to despite trying you'll get here one day Clarissa

1:08:21David Law: you come and see us I love the name Clarissa it makes me think of Clarissa Explains It All which is one of my earliest TV memories. What a show. Bit of a no-to-all, was she, Clarissa? Not this one. Your one. I don't think you were the target audience for that show, David, and Matt wasn't born. But anyway, I enjoyed that momentary trip down memory lane, Clarissa, so thank you for that. Thank you, Clarissa, Isabel, Rene, Jean, Matt and Ezra.

1:08:49Matt Roberts: Thank you all for being friends of the Tennis Podcast. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. work. We have one more Roland Garros daily show to go. Thank you for listening. We'll speak to you tomorrow.

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