French Open Day 5 - Sinner STUNNED! What happened, and what now?

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1:17Matt Roberts: Hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast coming to you from the grounds of the French Open, the second Grand Slam of the tennis season.

1:24Jannik Sinner: It is Thursday evening here in Paris. It is 9pm, Day five out of a 15-day tournament, and Yannick Sinner, the overwhelming and prohibitive favourite for the men's title, is out.

1:38Matt Roberts: He was defeated in extraordinary circumstances in the second round by the world number 56 Juan Manuel Cerundelo,

1:46Jannik Sinner: brother of the better-known and higher-ranked Francisco Cerundelo, having led Sinner two sets to love and 5-1. He was a game away from an efficient, comfortable victory when all four wheels came off at once. From 5-2 in the third set, Sinner lost 18 points in a row. This is a man that has won his last 30 tennis matches. He won only two further games in the entire match.

2:19Matt Roberts: He was a ghost out there for the second half of this match, icing and fanning himself at every sit down, seeking treatment for what appeared to be heat exhaustion, unable to generate any power from his legs at all, just swiping at the tennis ball and hoping for a miracle. It looked, David, a replica of what we saw from Sinnott in Australia against Elliot Spitzeri,

2:44Jannik Sinner: except this time there was no roof to save him.

2:48David Law: Yeah, I think that sums it up pretty well because at two sets to love and for love, in fact, in the second set, I decided to go and give my mum a call because I thought, OK, we haven't really got anything eventful going on. This seems like a good window. I think we spent 12 minutes on the phone and by the time I came back to the screen, Sina was still serving for the match but at 5-4 now and clearly something had happened. and then when you saw him, I mean, you used the word, he looked like a ghost. He really couldn't, he looked like he didn't really know where he was. He was sort of wandering around the baseline, trying to regain his focus, trying not to be sick or trying to be sick if it would help him.

3:34You know, he was lost.

3:37David Law: He was lost suddenly and Sarindolo was very, very clever. He worked out, if I keep this ball in and I keep this guy moving and he was aided and betted by some very clear coaching instructions that this was likely to be a win for him. The thing is, as you say, no rule for... It's always one of those, is it going to get so hot that literally the rules intervene and you have to cool things down? That's what happened in Australia. That's what happens quite a lot of the time. But if there's nowhere to go, if you've got to carry this match on, there's only so much you can do. They did the off-court medical timeout.

4:17David Law: They did a lengthy assessment. You wonder whether that might revive him and give him enough time in the cold air conditioning in order to feel better. But as soon as he came back out after that and as soon as he lost that third set and he came back out again, you looked at him and you thought, no, he can't do it. He can't play tennis. He can't play properly at all.

4:37Jannik Sinner: Yeah, I mean, look, we were all on alert going into this match. As soon as Sinner was scheduled in the day session, You know, with the weather as it is here in Paris, we were all on alert, eyes on Yannick Sinner in a way that they wouldn't ordinarily be in a second round of a slam against Juan Manuel Surinderlo, let's be honest. And it did have a feel of Yannick Sinner being on the clock. You know, it did feel like he was trying to get the job done quickly and not expend any extraneous energy out there.

5:05Matt Roberts: But I had let my guard down by 5-1 in the third set.

5:10Jannik Sinner: I thought, we're out of the woods here. with Yannick Sinner because he only had a game to go and it felt like such a formality and he had such a big lead at that point. But as you made the point to me earlier, Matt, that was exactly when we shouldn't have let our guards down and been on high alert. I don't think it was a really unfortunate coincidence or a stroke of bad luck that it happened with just a game to go with that invisible finish line hovering in front of his nose.

5:43Catherine Whitaker: Exactly. I think, you know, we were just under two hours into this match. OK, it was a very, very hot day, but I think it was the stress of the finish line is here and I can get this done now that kind of brought it on. I just don't think it's a coincidence that this happened to Sinner as the finish line was right there, you know? And then when it did start happening, we debated about which day session slot would be the best one for Sinner if he did have to play in the day. And I think when we all saw him scheduled first, we thought, OK, that's good. He can probably get it done before it gets really hot.

6:27Catherine Whitaker: The thing is, though, when it started affecting him and he was struggling to play, there was then no escape. There was then no trying to extend set four as long as you can and wait to the fifth and hope that a shadow comes over the court or hope that the temperature cools. It must have just been a sinking feeling for him in that moment knowing that he can't play and there is no help coming his way this time and he was stuck. and I really feel for Yannick Sinner, you know. He has proven to be better than anyone on the men's tour in the last few months and he has conquered tennis in that way and he's been knocked out of a tournament for un-tennis reasons, you know, for the heat, the way he's feeling and there was nothing he could do about it.

7:24Catherine Whitaker: The best tennis player in the world, there was nothing he could do about it and it was like a slow death for the next set and a half on court. It was agonising to watch and yet you kind of knew the outcome. It was crazy and it didn't have the thrill that upsets normally do. Or the atmosphere.

7:45Jannik Sinner: The atmosphere was so strange out there. I mean, for most of the match, the stadium was half empty because it was too hot to sit outside. Now, when the situation started unfolding, it did fill up, But it was still soporific, it's too hot to generate any real oomph, certainly in the heat of the day. And it was just so bizarre. It almost didn't feel appropriate to be cheering for anyone.

8:09Catherine Whitaker: And we'll get on to it, but there was a split-screen situation happening where a 17-year-old Frenchman had everyone's attention at the same time. And that couldn't have been more thrilling. It was so weird having those two screens side by side and those two polar opposite experiences happening at the same time.

8:31Jannik Sinner: Now, some people would counter what you've just said there about Yannick Sinner losing for non-tennis reasons here and they would say, well, being conditioned for these temperatures and these conditions is part of being a tennis player. I don't feel that way. I don't think there is much within Yannick Sinner's control that he can do about this. There might be some. There might be some. but I don't think there is much, quite frankly. I think he's been doing what is within his control. I'm not a doctor nor a total expert. I am quite a pale person that struggles in the heat and would love to be able to do something about that.

9:12Jannik Sinner: But I don't see this as a loss of condition, just like I rarely see cramp as a loss of condition. It can be, but it so often isn't. It's almost genetic. And look, we can all see what Yannick Sinner's complexion is. Like, there are genetics at play here. And look, we can't answer that debate once and for all, can we? Because, you know, we're not qualified to. But that is my feeling on it. I think the one counterpoint I would make to that

9:47David Law: is that all the players that aren't born with his physical gifts have to make do with what they've got. And this was one of their days today.

9:58Jannik Sinner: The argument being genetic advantage is part of sport. He's got this genetic disadvantage, but he's got other genetic advantages. He's got all the advantages.

10:07David Law: He's got this incredible balance. He grew up as a skier. He's got these lashing ground strokes. He's got this incredible temperament. Everybody would love to have these things, but they haven't got them. Good for him. He's the best as a result of it. But on a given day, their genetic benefits come into their own. And we saw it today with a guy from Paraguay who looked incredibly fresh against Moise Kwame, the young French guy who eventually got the job done. We saw it with Sorundolo today. And, I mean, I totally take your point. I still would love to know if Sina were to spend 12 months in Miami and live there.

10:51David Law: He might die. Well, whether he would be able to get more used to it. I mean, and I'm mindful that he's saying that it's not due to heat. But I know what you mean. If the rules were changed and you had to play tennis tournaments in certain conditions, then those would be the tennis conditions. But at the moment, the way it's written, this is one of the conditions as well.

11:18Catherine Whitaker: I suppose what I'm saying, and maybe I'm just not being clear enough with my words, is that he wasn't outplayed. No, he wasn't. Like a thrilling upset can happen. Like Djokovic did too. Right, or even sometimes you might see a really top seed lose to someone that you just don't see coming at all and you get that buzz, that thrill of, wow, look at this player we weren't expecting playing to the level of a top seed and beating them. And OK, the top seed's not at their best that day, probably, but it's happening for tennis reasons and you're seeing great shot making and all of that kind of stuff.

12:00Catherine Whitaker: I suppose that's the point I'm trying to make. I'm not by any means saying that being able to cope in tough conditions isn't an important part of being a tennis player and an important attribute that guys and women around here are using to their advantage and should be able to use to their advantage. I would take issue with anyone who says that Sinner is not conditioned and isn't doing, I'm sure, all that he can within his power and within his reason to try and improve this issue, because I'm sure that he is. It's just that other players, as you've said, are better able to cope with it. And it was one of those matches where Juan Manuel Sarundolo took advantage of that and did play smartly, tactically, for the second half of this match and played in absolutely the way he should do.

12:54Catherine Whitaker: So in that respect, there were tennis reasons at play. But, yeah, it just didn't have the feeling, the buzz, that you would expect an upset of this magnitude to have because of the way it played out.

13:07Jannik Sinner: The buzz came for us when he was called to the press conference room. When the announcement came, well, the announcement came Yannick Sinner is coming, I think it was 4.40 at the time, and that was eight minutes, it was 4.32 at that time. And then 30 seconds later, it was Yannick Sinner's coming now, Yannick Sinner's on his way, and then five seconds after that, it was Yannick Sinner who's in the main press conference room. It was a stampede. We've seen some significant dramatic press conferences in our time here. I've never seen anything quite like that, David.

13:42David Law: No, the entirety of the press room just immediately stood up and just went towards the interview room and there was this big bottleneck of people trying to get in there while Yannick Sinner's just sat there mixing one of his your hydration drinks because he's come early. And, you know, fair play to him. He let us all get in the room before they started the press conference and every single seat was filled. The entire corridor on the left of the room was filled with standing room only. And then there were people basically queuing out of the door and looking over heads in order to try to get a look at what Yannick Sinner was doing and saying.

14:23David Law: and yeah that is as dramatic a press conference as I've been in in terms of yeah results or or an upset like that and what he said was pretty surprising I think I I was

14:37Jannik Sinner: pretty surprised by it on on reflection I think having had a chance to process it maybe it's not that big a surprise but you hinted at it earlier David Yannick Sinner is insisting today's result wasn't because of the heat. He said he woke up this morning and didn't feel very well in a quite unspecific way. He didn't call it illness or anything. He just said he woke up feeling not great. He hadn't slept very well. He said he was trying to keep the points short from the start and that was working and then he just hit the wall. He said he had started to feel it in the middle of the third set. Specifically asked about the heat.

15:11Jannik Sinner: He said it was warm but not crazy warm. It was OK to play and he was very specific that today was, in his words, a completely different scenario to what happened in Australia earlier this year and what happened in Shanghai last year when he had to be physically helped off the court by ATP staff. He was unable to move. Now, look, I think there's two scenarios here with what he said. Number one is this is defence and deflection because it must be excruciating to have your biggest vulnerability exposed in the way it was for him today, certainly in terms of what it looked like, and exposed in such a long, drawn-out way, death by a thousand cuts.

16:05Jannik Sinner: You go on Getty Images and there's four pages of pictures as if Yannick Sinner looking at death's door. You know, like, it is all out there for the world to see, for all his rivals to see. I think that is one very likely scenario, that it is defence and deflection, and he doesn't want to kind of add to the myth of this issue that he has by confirming it and voicing it, and that would be very understandable. The other scenario is we take him at his word and say, OK, wasn't the heat. this would have happened regardless of the heat. Well, then, why did he wake up feeling so physically poor? Could be a stroke of bad luck.

16:48Jannik Sinner: Could be contributed to by the amount of tennis that he's played coming in here. You know, those playing all three of the clay court events. We did a social video a few days ago where we asked around ourselves, Charlie Eccleshare, Ava Wallace from The Athletic, what do you think is the most likely person or thing to stop Yannick Sinner from winning this title and do you think it'll actually happen well a lot of people a lot of us said the heat Charlie said playing Rome basically he said his theory is there's no way he plays Rome if it's not Rome if it's Hamburg or I've done this before haven't I and I've failed to come up with other cities.

17:29Jannik Sinner: I'm doing it to myself again. I'm in a cul-de-sac. Lisbon. And look, the answer here is it's not binary, right? It's probably a combination of all of these things, but I think we have to look at that, right? He did say towards the end of the press conference, I need some time off.

17:48David Law: Yeah, I mean, he said, I probably won't play before Wimbledon. I probably won't play the warm-up tournaments, because he quite clearly needs a break. He won them all. He won Montagala, Madrid, Rome. It's so much tennis. It's so much time on the road. Was it a mistake playing that full schedule? I kind of feel a little bit like he does, that trying to draw cause and effect and feel confident that it is that is very, very difficult. Rome means so much to him that it would have been really difficult not to play that. I do think there was an argument for not playing Madrid. We've seen Alcaraz not play it and freshen himself up and win Roland Garros.

18:35David Law: We've seen him do that twice. I tend to think that that gives you the best chance of actually getting the one you really want.

18:42Jannik Sinner: And for Alcaraz, that's a bigger sacrifice than for most players because it's Spain and it's an IMG event. He's IMG. You know, that is a big call for Alcaraz.

18:50David Law: Yeah. And look, he'd never won Rome before and he really wanted to win that. And he wasn't to know that he would have this problem for a start. So actually making these decisions is really difficult. You say that, but he's had this problem before. Yeah. I mean, I think the one other scenario, I'm mindful that all we can do is, A, listen to what he said and either take it at completely face value or, B, speculate. We're inevitably going to do some of the latter as well. Do you believe him? I don't... I think it's a bit of a coincidence that it looks exactly the same. And it bloody was hot today.

19:28David Law: OK, it wasn't as hot as Australia, but it didn't happen as quickly as it happened in Australia. It took more time. It's just that there's nowhere to go here. You can't cover up. You can't cool yourself down. So, listen, I'm not saying that he didn't feel bad this morning when he woke up. I think the other thing you've got to wonder is maybe there was stress involved. Maybe he was aware of how hot it's going to be today and he was stressed and he didn't sleep because of it. It would be completely normal if that was the case. Listen, most people around here are not sleeping greys at the moment because it's uncomfortable weather.

20:05David Law: Maybe he's got a virus, maybe he's got a bug. I'm not calling him a liar, but I'm telling you what I saw today looked incredibly similar to what I've seen before.

20:18Jannik Sinner: I don't also I don't think it's lying I mean I I don't expect anybody necessarily to come in that press conference room and tell us the whole truth the whole time you know they've got a competitive advantage to try and defend I wouldn't not taking him at face value there I wouldn't I suppose technically it's lying but I I wouldn't couch it that way no I don't hold it I don't hold

20:41David Law: against him at all. You know, people are always sort of giving aversion because, you know, you do, you want to protect yourself, really, and I'm OK with that. But he must be, well, pissed off and worried, really. Generally, because even if this one was down to a bug, it's still a problem.

21:05Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, and, look, I come down on the side of combination of all of these things. I think I would put more weight on the heat than he did, but I understand why he's not going to do that in the press conference. But I just think he finishes this match if it's a 20-degree day and it's 6-3, 6-2, 6-2. I do think the heat was, whether it was the single cause of what ended up happening to him, maybe not. but I think it was definitely a contributing factor or the stress of it and thinking it's going to happen. I'm sure that the heat is playing a role here because we've seen it happen before. This is not a one-off.

21:54I think the slight surprise to me is that it can happen to him in Paris.

22:02Catherine Whitaker: You know, I didn't think that Paris and Wimbledon would be this hot to be able to affect Yannick Sinner. You know, we've seen him in a really sticky US Open night session, Cramp, and we've seen him in Australia have issues. Two years in a row, you know, with Runa and Spitziri. so and okay it didn't quite get to that hot but it was still extremely hot here in Paris all week and the build-up the accumulation the stress all of that I think has affected him here and as much as and and he's got because of because of how much he's played he's just starting with a more empty tank than most, you know?

22:52Catherine Whitaker: So I think it's everything. And, yeah, I hope he has a good few weeks off.

22:59Jannik Sinner: Yeah. Hear, hear. Biggest major shock since, David? I mean, there was a pre-tournament graphic during the rounds of Yannick Senna's odds, pre-tournament odds here, compared to other overwhelming favourites at slams past, and Sinner was at the top. Again, not a reflection of Yannick Sinner being better than Piek Nadal. It's about how good Sinner is relative to the opposition. And here, look, maybe they should have priced in more, this physical element, but I think at the time, the odds that they took it was before the weather forecast had presented itself. but anyway his odds were absolutely overwhelming and in second position behind Yannick Sinner's overwhelming odds here was Rafael Nadal at the 2009 French Open and maybe we should have known at that point maybe that was a glaring clue that something weird was going to happen because of course something truly shocking happened at that French Open and he lost to Robin Sodeling.

24:10Jannik Sinner: But, yeah, according to the stats, this is as big as it gets shock-wise. I guess in the context of the weather forecast and knowing what we know about Yannick Sinner, that takes the edge off the shock. But kind of two weeks ago, before this weather forecast had presented itself, when it felt unthinkable for it to be 35 degrees in May in Paris, how big a shock would it have ranked?

24:38David Law: Yeah, it's an enormous shock. It's right up there with one of the biggest that I've seen. I think Nadal was bigger as a shock in the moment just because of how dominant he was at this tournament. The fact that he'd never lost since playing it for the first time in 2005. He'd won it every year up until then, four times before he lost at all. but Söderling was a very very good player and I'm not saying Söderling isn't a good player but to take your analogy at the start of this podcast Matt Söderling knocked Nadal off the court that day he played tennis that was just devastating I mean I don't think Nadal was 100 % fit at all but he wasn't terrible and he was knocked off the court.

25:31David Law: Today, this was just before and after. And I realise we're not giving Sorundelo really much in the way of credit because it's so difficult to look past how one-sided this match was until Sinner started to feel unwell. I think Sorundelo did an incredible job to play his part. but in terms of shocks it's it's because Sinner has been dominant this year it's because he and Alcraz have completely overwhelmed the opposition for years now and Alcraz isn't here so the thought that Sinner would lose in the second round of the tournament is staggering yeah to me it's

26:13Catherine Whitaker: the biggest shock in a very very long time in terms of the bigger picture of the tournament and a player's odds going into it and that ending up not coming close to happening. That is shocking. I do think that in the moment we've had some very shocking results more recently than even Söderling, like Vinczy. Vinczy beating Serena, that blew my mind when that happened. And I would also say Istomin beating Djokovic at the Australian Open on that court with Djokovic as, you know, OK, he was sort of right there at the top with Andy Murray, wasn't he? Those two results stand out to me as shocking in the moment, I suppose.

27:06Catherine Whitaker: But I'm not sure Djokovic was as big a pre-tournament favourite at that Australian Open as Sina was here. I do think Serena, by the time she got to that semi-final, You know, it's just that she was going for something so big. I suppose everyone was on some alert that something might happen, trying to make history in that sense. So, yeah, I think the historical context is important. It's just this one is hard to compare because it's so unlike the others because of the circumstances of it and the way it played out.

27:38Jannik Sinner: Assuming this is a largely genetic issue that can't be solved and that he is already doing everything he can. I mean, generally speaking, this sort of thing tends to get worse as you age rather than better.

27:51Matt Roberts: But time will tell. I know this is an impossible question because it's kind of throwing so far into the future and so many unknowns.

27:58Jannik Sinner: But how much do you think this could dent his eventual Grand Slam tally? Well, I do think it is the one thing that is a frailty about Yannick Sinner.

28:12David Law: He's got everything. He has got everything in terms of being a tennis player. and he's getting better too. You know, and I think what he's done since the US Open last year when he decided he wanted to introduce variety into his game, I'm absolutely amazed what he's achieved with that. He's made himself a better player. He's got a great physique. His athleticism is amazing. I can never get over his temperament. This is the one thing that is problematic. And I guess to some degree it will depend how tennis responds to the climate and how tennis responds to weeks like this, where so many players seem to be getting affected.

28:57David Law: And also injuries have happened. Are they going to do some proper research and investigations into whether they could be doing something differently with the structure of the sport to stop some of these injuries? If it stays as it is, Well, I think he'll probably be at the mercy of the weather and being a little bit fortunate with roofs coming over and stuff like that. But I could definitely, at the French Open, I mean, if we have other weeks like this, it's very difficult to not end up playing in these conditions at least once or twice. We've seen it. I mean, he gets plenty of night sessions.

29:36David Law: He gets probably pretty favorable scheduling, which I've got to say I don't agree with. I just don't think that should be allowed.

29:43Jannik Sinner: I mean, even today, we assume he was told it's day session for you today and he elected for the early slot, right? Women have to play there unless a man says, I would specifically like that slot.

29:59David Law: Well, I mean, certainly when you look at the record, I mean, it's three years odd that that's been the case. So I think it continues to be a problem and a bit of potluck. Like I said, I would like to know whether he is going to do something extreme within his preparation throughout the year in order to see if something can be done to counter it. but most likely this isn't the last time we see him affected badly in a grand slam tournament because of the heat.

30:36Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I agree. And as I just said, I think adding European levels of heatwave into the mix of French Open and Wimbledon is something I hadn't really accounted for. I knew it was a problem he had. I didn't quite realise the extent to the problem, I suppose. because, look, lots of people have been affected here. The heat has been very, very real. But I think that is the earliest I've seen someone affected in a match that was not close. You know, it wasn't like... And look, we have to take into account what Sin is saying and how he's not feeling well, and we take into account the preparation, of course, but it affects him seemingly more than anyone else in the draw, and yet he's the best player in the world.

31:25Catherine Whitaker: There's this tremendous contrast there. So, yeah, I agree with David. I totally think that if big changes are not made to the sport and how it deals with heat, then Yannick Sinner is going to keep facing those consequences, and sometimes he'll have favourable scheduling and be at night or be on the day when it's not the heat. You know, like the luck will probably go both ways, but I'm sure that there will be occasions in the future where we see Sinner in this sort of position again.

32:00Matt Roberts: Now, what about where this leaves the top half of the men's draw? Already the weaker half, but for Yannick Sinner, and then Medvedev lost and made it that bit weaker. Alexander Bublik lost a couple of days ago too. it was already starting to look a bit threadbare but was being propped up by Yannick Sinner at the top there and now we are left with well a barren land but also a land of opportunity. Now we are recording this show slightly before the end of play. We've prioritised urgency given the hugeness of the Yannick Sinner story so there are a few matches still on court. Crucially Ben Shelton currently trails by two sets to love to Raphael Collignon, the fifth seed Ben Shelton, who has been consistently losing to Carlos Alcaraz and Yannick Sinner at slams, is in a position of, well, his eyes lighting up.

32:53Matt Roberts: And who knows if that has anything to do with what's currently going on on Suzanne Longland. Difficult for us to talk about too much right now because the result not in, but he sure is in a pickle. Matteo Berrettini and Otto Rindeknesh still on court. Berrettini leading by a set to love. Sitsapas and Arnaldi still on court. And Arnaldi leading by a set to love. of Darderi is in a fifth set against Comissania, and actually it is Comissania serving for that. So potentially the 14th seed Luciano Darderi going out. What a day for the Italians. What a couple of days for the Italians.

33:30Matt Roberts: Somebody wild is reaching the French Open final here, right?

33:37Catherine Whitaker: Yes. You know, it feels a little bit like the 2020 US Open to me, that COVID one where you could call it a freak incident. Here it's the heat and Yannick Sinner succumbing to that. And there it was Novak Djokovic getting defaulted. And suddenly the whole draw looks different. And everyone kind of shat themselves. the tennis we saw for the next few rounds was some of the lowest quality tightest tennis i've ever seen and it was made dystopian by the fact that there was no one around of course and we were watching it all in the middle of the night it was so weird bad memories of that time but in a way it was compelling and intriguing and quite fun right and i it's not quite the same as that because in the other half here, you've still got Kaspar Rude, who's been to the final here, and you've still got Alexander Zverev, who's been to the final here, and you've still got Novak Djokovic, who's won 24 Grand Slams.

34:47Catherine Whitaker: But in the Sinner half, which was the half not to be in a few days ago, is now the half everyone wants to be in because it's been vacated by Sinner. I think we could see some wild stuff happening happening with people knowing that the opportunity is there. I'm looking at you, Flavio Caballi. I'm looking at you, Francisco Sarundolo. I'm looking at you, Lerner Tien, who saved match points today. And it was fascinating even seeing Martin Landaluthe win his match today. He knew that he had to play the winner of Sina Sarundolo. And he gets told in the post-match interview that he does for Spanish TV that Sina's lost.

35:30Catherine Whitaker: and he's like what he doesn't understand it like and and he was like i was kind of looking forward to playing yannick sinner but then also like you see his face change and suddenly it's like well thank goodness i battled through and won that fifth set because now there's an opportunity in front of me like it just changes everything for so many people and as as much as tennis players will tell you one match at a time and i'm focusing on the next point and the next whatever, you can't escape the enormity of this story and what it's done to the draw. And, yeah, we could be in for a fascinating few days, particularly on that side of the draw.

36:11Jannik Sinner: We could be in for an all-surrenderlo semi-final. Who saw that coming? Because Francisco also won today. He beat Hugo Gaston in four sets. I'm not sure needing four sets to be injured, Hugo Gaston, says semi-final form. But we will see. They're competing for the title and for the role of good Sir Rundleau, which is now up for grabs.

36:35Catherine Whitaker: And his interview was funny as well because he was saying that while he was playing Gaston, people in the crowd were telling him, your brother won, your brother won. And he didn't know whether they were telling him the truth, whether they were trying to put him off. He was playing a Frenchman. So he had to wait for the post-match to be confirmed as well. I do love that element of a big story and the way it sort of ripples through the ground.

37:03Jannik Sinner: Kabbali, incidentally, did win today, as did Tien, as Matt said, in five sets for Tien, straight sets for Kabbali. They now play one another in the third round, which is a big yes, please.

37:15Matt Roberts: Francis Tiafoe won today in five against Hubert Hercats. He's got Jaime Farrier next, who came through qualifying, now won two rounds, beat Grigor Dimitrov in the first round of qualifying. Did Faria. What a run for him. Felix Auger-Eliassime.

37:29Jannik Sinner: Oh, my God.

37:30Catherine Whitaker: Are we in a what-if for Grigor again?

37:33Jannik Sinner: I didn't mean to.

37:34Catherine Whitaker: No, we're not.

37:38Matt Roberts: Felix Auger-Eliassime is through. Dropped the first set to Roman Burrachaga. He faces the winner of the match still on court between Luka Van Asch and Brandon Nakashima. They're locked at a set apiece.

37:49David Law: Could it be Felix's year?

37:52Matt Roberts: It could be anyone's year, David.

37:54David Law: It's amazing, isn't it?

37:55Matt Roberts: The winner of Shelton Collignon, incidentally. Collignon currently two sets of love up. Plays the winner of Sitsapas Arnaldi.

38:03Jannik Sinner: So, yeah, which again looks like it's going to be, well, at the moment, Arnaldi's in the driving seat. But we will see. Another name still in that top half of the draw. Remember this name, folks. Moisa Kouame. And we're now confident that is the correct pronunciation. There was a bit of misleading information put on the group chat that I ran with yesterday. But it was on an official group chat.

38:28David Law: Not our group chat.

38:30Jannik Sinner: No, not ours. I was led very much astray.

38:33Matt Roberts: Yes. But Moise Kwame, the 17-year-old Frenchman. What a 17-year-old. One of those 17-year-olds, I said in his post-match press conference,

38:43Jannik Sinner: that makes you reflect very unfavourably on what on earth you were doing at 17.

38:49Matt Roberts: He beat Paraguayan Adolfo Vallejo 6-3, 7-5, 3-6, 2-6, 7-6, 10-8

38:59Jannik Sinner: in the deciding set tie break in four hours and 56 minutes. Serve and volleying on match point, David Law was there.

39:10David Law: Oh, this is amazing. I mean, I went over early on when Matt and I first arrived at Ronan Garros today. We had plans to both go and watch the Naomi Osaka and Donovic hitch match. And we faced this decision. Do we go straight there with our massive rucksacks or do we put them in the media center? Matt went over and thought, OK, I can lodge my rucksack underneath the seat. I thought, no, if I'm trying to do that and take care of my legs, then I'm not going to be able to pull that off. So I went into the media centre, put mine in there, and then suddenly I heard this roar coming from Susan Longland Court, and I thought, ooh, hello.

39:51David Law: It's calling me. This has got my name on it. So off I went, and Kwame won that set, and it was just electric. And this is the first time I've got a chance to watch him play in person, and he's a lovely player for a start. I mean, he's got a lovely sort of loose feel the way he holds the racket. He's kind of strategic, but in an unstressful way. Sometimes he'll just roll a couple and other times he just decides every shot, I'm going to pull the trigger and go flat out. And he's got true power. There's a real sound to his ground strokes. I was sitting with the French journalist, Eric Salio, who was just jumping out of his seat the way this kid was playing.

40:34David Law: And he was saying, listen to it, listen to the sound of the way he hits the ball. And it's true, there's just a clean strike to it. The old snapped carrot that Catherine always refers to when somebody can really connect with a ball. Went two sets to Love Up. Looked, I thought at that stage as though he was going to get the job in three sets. I went back to the media centre because the Sinner drama was unfolding and it started to go badly wrong. Two sets all. he's then down a break at this point I think I'm just going to see if there's any life left in this and I tried to get my seat back again on court Susan Longland couldn't get near the court, couldn't get near the stadium there were so many people in the gangways and that's because hundreds and hundreds of people, thousands of people were watching the big screen outside Susan Longland court which was split in two with Sinner staggering around and very close to defeat and Kwame trying to break back which he did and uh and he broke back at five three down i went into the stadium at that point and and the tie break he played for the first seven points he won six of the points every one of them was a winner he just went for broke he's six one up but then he lost his his way and it gets back level and and he's there at eight points apiece before he finally manages to come up with the shots the the the serving volley that you referenced falls flat on his back the place just went wild i mean the noise in that stadium is as loud as anything i've heard here um and he's cool he's you know 17 years of age he's still got so much to come but the manner in which he handled himself and the on-court interview and and and just the match generally he's sort of innate understanding of when to get intense and get the crown involved and when to just pull back and let but it cruised for a bit.

42:30David Law: You can't teach.

42:32Jannik Sinner: I bumped into Richard Evans after Kwame's victory, and he was buzzing about it. Veteran, journalist, seen a lot. Absolutely. Frequent contributor to our Tennis Relived series, you know, seen it all. You know, he used to write for the Evening Standard with Althea Gibson at Wimbledon. That's the sort of knowledge of the history of the sport that we're talking about. And he was absolutely buzzing about Kwame. And he's seen hyped talents come and go. You know, he knows what hype trains to jump on board on. He's not just getting on board any old hype train, is Richard Evans. He was like, well, he started the sentence and trailed off.

43:14He said, he's the biggest talent I've seen since,

43:18Jannik Sinner: biggest male talent I've seen of this age since. And then he trailed off and he went, well, I guess you'd have to say Boris Becker because he was 17 when he won Wimbledon. But that was 1985.

43:31David Law: Yeah.

43:32Jannik Sinner: That is decades and decades and decades. And look, a lot can happen. Nothing is promised. That's why it's so fantastic he has Richard Gasquet in his box. Looking as... I'm just so pleased for Gasquet that he's got this. He looks far happier than he ever did as a tennis player.

43:51David Law: Yeah, there was a moment Matt turned to me and said, I've never seen Gasquet look this happy. No.

43:56Matt Roberts: And invested and committed and looked right where he wanted to be, which I never felt during his playing career.

44:04Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, his face looks different. It's remarkable. And I enjoyed a little exchange I saw between James Hansen, the tennis editor at The Athletic, and Giri Nathan, who obviously wrote the book Changeover on Al Krasn Sinner. and you know talking about how Kwame might be the first player to come along who sort of has some sort of play style attributes that they have in terms of the way that they've helped change the sport and in particular what what stands out to me is what James described as demonic out of the corners in terms of so good like when stretched out wide the number of shots Kwame hit today, stretched out wide, turning defence into attack, particularly off his backhand.

44:56Catherine Whitaker: That shot up the line was such a threat today, and I loved seeing that. I loved his post-match celebration, which was just sticking his whole head and body in the freezer at the end of the match that was by the court. That was some very relatable stuff from a very unrelatable feat of excellence at 17. and then I enjoyed the shout out in the post-match interview that he said last year I saw the Roland Garros final where Alcares saved three match points and what did he say? I never stopped believing today when I found myself down 5-3 in the fifth I never stopped believing and he does have this composure about him on court as Dave has described in terms of sensing moments and when to give the crowd something when to accept something from the crowd and also in his press conferences he's very composed he really thinks about his answer before opening his mouth he takes a moment exactly, just takes a beat

45:55Jannik Sinner: what 17 year old takes a moment before speaking?

45:59David Law: wild do you know what, he even takes not a moment but a second or two before putting away a midcourt forehand sometimes he's not just smacking it everything's thoughtful he's wasting, he's going to go, I'm just going to go the other way it's fine

46:12Catherine Whitaker: yeah it's one of the great qualities that I think great athletes all share, which is that ability to slow down time

46:22Jannik Sinner: and

46:23Catherine Whitaker: have time on the ball and have time around you. And he seems to have that. I can't really describe it more technically than that, but he seems to have it.

46:33David Law: Can I just mention as well his speed around the court? Because several times I'm thinking, well, there's no point in running for that. And he would get to it with an exaggerated slide and a lunge and he's got he feels like he's got really long wingspan, he can get to stuff and it's so exciting and yet he may well not go around further but it's But he's 17 and he's in

46:59Jannik Sinner: the third round. The ingredients are amazing. And he's got such great self-knowledge, like this isn't just a kid doing this on instinct that doesn't you know, just sort of in a hamster wheel, doesn't quite know what's happening, feel like he's processing it all and really understands himself and what's going on. You know, even that sort of hyping the crowd up and when to inject energy like that and when not to. He said, I know that doing it on every point is too much. You know, I know I need to be careful about how often I do that. He was asked a great question by Tamanee Carial of The Guardian.

47:38Jannik Sinner: and he said, he asked him, you've never played on a court like Suzanne Longland before. I mean, you've barely played professional tennis before. You are 17 years old. Like, did you know you were a showman before today? Like, or is that something you discovered today on this stage in front of these people? You know, fantastic question. And he said, yeah, I knew. Like, I practiced these showman moves in practice and he wasn't talking about trick shots or anything. He was like, I'll put a finger to my ear. like ironically at my coach sometimes and I'll do the whole like celebration as if there's a crowd when there's not almost like I've been preparing for this kind of moment my whole life it was you know and he said that the mental strength like that isn't just something I have he said I've put a lot of hours of training into that 17 year olds craziness he's got Alejandro Tabilo next which what even is a good draw at this point?

48:37Jannik Sinner: I'm certainly not going to declare that one.

48:39David Law: And Tabilo is a very, very good player. I mean, lefty, he's somebody I often see and I'm taken aback by how good he is because, you know, he might not get to the last stages of the biggest tournaments. But, yeah, that is no easy draw in terms of a best-of-five set match. You know, on paper, it's not Yannick Sinner or players in the top ten. But, yeah, I hope, as excited as I sound about him, and I am, that people can understand that if he doesn't win next round, it's absolutely fine.

49:14Matt Roberts: Just to say, by the way, while you've been talking there, Ben Shelton and Luciano Darderi have both lost. I mean, Darderi, just the 14th seed, he's lost to Francisco Comissagne. Ben Shelton has lost in straight sets to Raphael Collignon, who is a good player. You know, he had his breakthrough at the US Open last year. We just watched his interviews. Incredibly emotional. Huge moment for him. What a miss for fifth seed Ben Shelton.

49:41David Law: Yeah, there's no getting around it, really. I mean, it's not his favourite surface, but he has had some results. You know, he won a title earlier this year in Munich, but, you know, the last few weeks haven't gone that well. But he tends to play his best stuff at the Grand Slams. And honestly, the moment Sinner went out, I thought that Ben Shelton could be the beneficiary, really, of coming through this draw. And within a few hours, he's out. That shows you how hard it is, how hard professional tennis is and how you just can't bank on anything in professional sport, really. But there's no question about it.

50:20David Law: I mean, it's just yet another hole in that half of the draw.

50:24Matt Roberts: Absolutely. OK, that's it for part one. What a bumper part one. We'll be back in part two to talk about the women's matches that we've seen today.

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52:40Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast. turning our attention now to the women's side of things here at the French Open. No major upsets for now, at least. Victoria Mboko is still on court and is set down to Katerina Siniarkova, but Coco Goff, Arina Sabalenka, Amanda Anisimova all safely through. Amanda Anisimova failed to drop any games against Yulia Grabher today. Grabher did end up retiring from that match, so a slightly false stat, but a stat that is very much relevant is that Manor Innocent Mover has now won two major matches in the last 12 months without dropping a set, and Matt Roberts has failed to be present at either of them.

53:23David Law: I'm the problem. I mean, maybe now you just need to keep that up.

53:30Catherine Whitaker: Maybe. Well, I could try that, I suppose, at the next round, right, and not go to the start, and either she's going to win 6-love, 6-love or 6-love by retirement or she's going to lose a game and then I'm allowed to go. Right? So it's a bit of a win-win situation, really. So you're allowed to go when she... Has lost the game. Right.

53:53Jannik Sinner: I sensed there wasn't a whole lot of this match to watch or get your teeth into, but I did sense you were with us in the press room

54:01Matt Roberts: watching on the big screen at the time. I sensed your excitement levels about Amanda and Samova that you've been incredibly disciplined so far and kept a level head about. I sense the excitement levels rising just a touch.

54:17Catherine Whitaker: You sense correctly. Yeah, I think coming in, I just thought, well, she hasn't played in weeks. She's likely to be rusty or out of form and need a few matches to get going and even then could potentially run out of steam. You know, like all of those things that you would expect from a player who just hasn't played for very long. I've just, we haven't had a big sample size, but it seems that she's playing really well. It also seems that her demeanour has shifted. There just seems to be a lightness to her again, a slight pressure off vibe. And that might pick back up if she does go deep in the tournament.

55:02Catherine Whitaker: But for the moment, she seems to be riding this wave of feeling fresher than everyone else. You know, like I think that is an advantage that she's got. Everyone has played a lot more tennis than she has over the last few months. And if her form is fine, then she's got freshness on her side. And also like the draw is pretty open. As soon as that draw was made, it didn't look like she had huge obstacles in terms of like getting to the quarters. After that, if the draw holds up, she'd have to absolutely run the gaunt to win this thing. Potentially Goff, Sabalenka, Svjontek. I'm by no means thinking that that's going to happen at this stage.

55:44But yeah, I do think she was someone who at the start of the tournament

55:48Catherine Whitaker: I wasn't really thinking about in terms of going deep here. It feels like that has shifted and she's got a decent shot at that.

55:56Matt Roberts: Yeah, Diane Parry next for her. She's definitely going to feel fresher than Parry, who has very intense strapping on her thigh. Has won through two matches, beat Anne Lee today in straight sets, but I don't quite know how she's doing it. And, you know, Parry at her best is a little awkward

56:13Catherine Whitaker: because she's got the sliced backhand. She can play with angles on the forehand. Like, she can get a nice and over, I think, out of the hitting zone a bit. Plus, you've got the French crowd. like I do think that that is a far trickier match than Anismov has had so far.

56:31Jannik Sinner: Likely to be on Chattere, isn't it?

56:32Matt Roberts: Because, well, if they put Deanne Parry against Anne Lee on Chattere, I suspect they'll put Deanne Parry against the fifth seed on Chattere. Just a hunch. I suspect in one of the opening two slots, but Chattere nonetheless. Coco Goff was on Longland today. 6-3, 6-2 against Maya Sharif. not loads of jeopardy in this, but maybe just a few more squeaky bum moments than the score suggests. She can really play Maya Sharif. Like, there were quite a few moments in that opening set where it felt like Goff was in control and, you know, Sharif pegged her back. But overall, I do like what I'm seeing from Coco Goff so far in this tournament.

57:12Matt Roberts: Only two rounds and Potapova waiting next. I know you've had that third round meeting sort of circled for a while, Matt, but I do like this version of Coco Gauff that we're saying. She's convincing.

57:27Catherine Whitaker: Yes, I agree. I think she's playing well here. I think getting Potipova during the period of the tournament where it's still hot feels like an advantage to me. These are very much Coco Gauff conditions. In fact, she's pretty much brushing them off in terms of conditions at all, isn't she? It's pretty normal for her. I think what's interesting is that the serve is far more reliable now it's just, she's lost it as a weapon you know, she's hitting kind of the same serve regularly and I do think Potipova with her flat return could latch onto that a little bit and find some rhythm but the thing is she's so good at putting pressure on your serve and returning and breaking that you know that that threat is always there and there was a there was a period in this match with Sharif in the first set where it was a slug fest you know it was really sticky out there I went on court to Longland I was there probably for almost half an hour and I didn't even see a game completed because there was back and forth deuce and then there was a medical situation in the crowd suddenly we've been playing about 50 55 minutes and it was still very early in this in this match and there was a chance that that match could have really dragged because the rallies were long.

58:49Catherine Whitaker: But there was a point that Goff played at the 4-3 game in that first set where Sharif wins it against everyone else on tour, I'm convinced. She had this put-away volley and Goff just appeared from nowhere and not only had the athleticism but also the hand skills at the end of the run to throw up this perfect lob that just landed right in the corner of the court over Sharif's head and then Gough won the point from there. That combination of movement, of turning defence into attack, I know it's not new with Gough, but it's the first time I'd seen it up close to this tournament and in a while because I've not been at a tournament watching Gough obviously since Australia.

59:34Catherine Whitaker: It takes your breath away watching her move and cover a tennis court. You're like, where do you go? How do you get the ball past her if you've not got just a blunt weapon, which Sharif doesn't? And I think for Sharif, knowing she would have to play that kind of point over and over again is almost impossible. And yeah, Goff came through the second set a little bit more easily. Yeah, I think she's looking good, but I do agree about Potipova as a bigger test.

1:00:04Jannik Sinner: It's interesting about the serve with Goff, isn't it? because we saw her doing that at the US Open, first of all, when she'd just started working with the biomechanist Gavin McMillan. It's not that slow. Right, but at that point it felt like just a temporary sticking plaster, didn't it, to sort of stem the flow with the double faults. And, yeah, it's not as bad as it was then, but it does seem like that style of adaptation is not a temporary measure anymore. this might be Koko Gough's approach to serving now.

1:00:38Catherine Whitaker: I can't imagine it's her approach to serving for the rest of her career because you're leaving so much on the table if that is the case. This is someone who can crank the serve up to almost 130 miles an hour and it's a weapon. But I understand it as a measure. It's maybe been... It's lasted longer than I thought it would, as you said. I thought it would be a really temporary thing, but it does appear to be what she's doing. Maybe it's a clay thing as well, you know, like she trusts her legs, she trusts herself in rallies. As long as she can get points started with the serve, she's probably going to back herself still quite a lot against most players, I would say.

1:01:18Catherine Whitaker: It'd be interesting to see how the approach might be different on the grass or on the quicker US hardcourt, but she's got to a pretty good place, I would say, with it compared to where it was even a few months ago. And the forehand's holding up so far as well. Yeah, things are trending nicely, I think, for golf.

1:01:39Jannik Sinner: Irina Sabalenka, 7-5, 6-2, against Elsa Giacomo in the last day session match of the day on Châtrier today. Wasn't loving the heat, was she? Irina Sabalenka had a device that I'm very keen to get my hands on, a sort of fan-come-electrical-cooling thing that she sort of applied to her face. Apparently, it cools your skin down to nine degrees within seconds. I've forgotten the name of it, so not really giving much promo in return, but if the makers of this device would like to get in touch and make one available to me, I will sell my soul in terms of promotion in return. We'll do anything to obtain this device.

1:02:23and she was being made to play for it.

1:02:28Jannik Sinner: At 5-all, Matt, Elsa Giacomo was doing chaotic things that Irina Sabalenka was not enjoying and had to raise her level to find a way past.

1:02:41Catherine Whitaker: Would those things be serve and volley, set point down? Didn't see that coming from Elsa Giacomo. And look, Sabalenka had a play on that point, didn't she? It was a quite nice serve and volley from Giacomo, but ultimately Sabalenka missed the forehand running pass. And, yeah, Giacomo then held for five all, got to love 15. And you're thinking, OK, this is the moment. Can Sabalenka respond to an opponent playing well? A crowd, you know, Giacomo was whipping them up. She was trying to get them on her side even more than they already were. but kind of champion stuff from Sabalenka in that period of the match, raised her game, won the tight set, responded as she so often does and then raced through the second.

1:03:29Catherine Whitaker: And I think having that little bit of jeopardy might end up being quite helpful for Sabalenka, I would say.

1:03:36Jannik Sinner: It's called a Shark Chill Pill. Personal fan and cooling system. Oh, yeah. The people at Shark Ninja, please get in touch.

1:03:48Jannik Sinner: available in multiple colours. I'm not fussy about the colour, just...

1:03:53David Law: I've got a barbecue from them.

1:03:55Jannik Sinner: Oh, right, OK. A good, reliable brand?

1:03:59David Law: Yeah, seems to work.

1:04:00Jannik Sinner: OK, great. Well, we've given them promo there.

1:04:03Catherine Whitaker: Cooks your stuff. How much is it going to set you back if you had to buy one? Obviously you won't because they're going to give you one.

1:04:09Jannik Sinner: $150. Yeah. I mean, don't get me wrong, I will throw my money at this problem at this point, but we've got a bit of an issue with, we can't really get things delivered to our flat, can we? Because we tried that last year and I had some trousers go missing on the other side of Paris. And out there

1:04:28Catherine Whitaker: somewhere in Bilancore, someone's walking around in Tennis Podcast merch samples that we never got either.

1:04:36Jannik Sinner: And Cezanne trousers. Someone's looking really snappy out there. So yeah, do get in touch Shark Ninja people. Naomi Osaka beat Donna Vekic 7-6, 6-4. A lot of people's kind of circled match of the day on the women's side. It was a good match, not a great match. I felt like, Matt, I know you watched a lot of this live on Longland. I felt like Osaka played too well for it to turn into a great match.

1:05:02Catherine Whitaker: Yes, I was impressed with Osaka. I think I was particularly impressed with her on big points when she was down in the score. You know, like she, there was a lot of breaks in this match. They, you know, Vekic was up a break twice in the first set and Osaka got it back. And then Vekic saved three set points, serving at 5-6 in the opener with some brilliant shot making. And I started to think, God, is this, this is the best I've seen Donna Vekic play in a little while. You know, like it was good to see that. But then Vekic had a really poor tie break in that first set and Osaka absolutely ran away with it.

1:05:41Catherine Whitaker: And that pattern kind of continued in the start of the second set, where there was just an exchange of breaks. But I liked how positive Osaka was staying throughout. I felt like she was really, there was lots of words of affirmation that she was giving herself. And I liked that she was going after the ball in big moments, as we would expect from her. and yeah this is her best crazy to think it's her best performance at the French Open since 2019 getting to the third round when I kind of remember thinking she might do the calendar slam that year you know like she'd won back to back slams and we didn't really know like what we know now about how much of a just hard court player she's been over her career and some of the struggles she's had on the grass and the clay I mean obviously that was I don't think I really thought she was going to win the calendar slam but it was such a shock to me when she lost to Sini Arcova at that Ronan Garros and to think that it's now what seven years till she's got back to that point you know I never you know you just would never have thought that at the time um and yeah she had a challenging draw I would say Siegmund to play Vekic she's two very different styles of play she's had to face there as well and she's dealt with it well I would say and another test in the next round.

1:07:03Jannik Sinner: Yeah Jovic next, Evie Jovic, she beat Emi Novaro today, dismissed Emi Novaro, 6-3

1:07:08Matt Roberts: don't think Jovic is too troubled by these sort of conditions, certainly not from what I've seen from her so far I'm excited for Osaka Jovic actually, I think that could be a lot of fun. Maria Sakharis, low key, just trucking along beat Claire Liu in three sets today She now plays Maja Kulinska, who is on five matches in a row now. She qualified one through round one and today beat Elisa Mertens 6-4, 6-love. Now, Kulinska, when we talked about her a couple of days ago, we told you she's good friends with Igor Svantec, same age as her, came through juniors at the same time and obviously has had nowhere near the career that Igor Svantec has had.

1:07:52Matt Roberts: They did kind of turn pro at a similar time, but Kulinska stood back, took a step back from professional tennis for several years. She suffered terribly with depression and has talked about that at great length. There's a really good piece with her on the WTA website. It sounds like she's had a heck of a journey to get where she is now, and that is a heck of a win against Eliza Mertens. So Kulinska's sackery for a place in the second week.

1:08:18Catherine Whitaker: And that forehand of hers, the big lefty forehand, jumps up, especially in these conditions on the clay. It's a problem. Xingqiu Nguyen never really got to grips with it in the first round. I didn't see this match today, but it's a very good win over Mertens. Yeah.

1:08:36Matt Roberts: Also wins for Deanna Schneider, Anna Kalinskaya, Oleksandr Olenikova. And Olenikova will play Deanna Schneider in round number three. Brilliant to see Olenikova's run continue. Another Russian for her in round number three.

1:08:52Catherine Whitaker: Yes, and Ben Rothenberg reporting that Olenikova came with receipts to her press conference earlier, which was photos of Schneider playing at the Gazprom exhibition and screenshots of some of her social media likes. That is going to be a very heightened match, I think, that one. David and I watched the end of Olenakova against Birol earlier and it was fun.

1:09:25David Law: Yeah I mean the match point I mean we got to a point where so many moon balls were his in the direction of Kim Birol that she was just sort of half volleying them on the baseline. She was getting so fed up and you did think I mean it goes to a tie break at the end there and Olenakova finishes it with an underarm serve. Absolutely vicious underspun slice underarm serve and manages to win the point and the match and you did think, crikey is this going to be a slightly frosty handshake given that she's just underarm served her on match point? Kim Burrell just walks up and gives her a massive hug the loveliest hug I mean Matt's always saying what a delight she is, she proved it yet again and that was only bettered by the hug that Olinikova gave her dad.

1:10:17David Law: I mean, it was very, very moving to see that.

1:10:20Matt Roberts: Yeah, incredibly moving scenes out there. Incidentally, just before we wrap up part two, Victoria Mboko fighting back against Katerina Siniarkova. They're a set-all and it's 2-1 in the decider. OK, that is it for part two. We'll be back in part three with you-know-what. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the Fortune 500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most.

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1:11:45Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast, where we have two contenders for Muscataire of the Day. David and Matt have the opportunity once again to give this coveted title to a human woman. Deanne Parry won a match on Chatrier today. she is in the running to be musketeer of the day as is Moisa Kwame who as we've discussed at length also won a tennis match today on Longland are you going to go with the man or with the woman?

1:12:19David Law: I'm going to opt out and ask you who you're going to go with

1:12:23Matt Roberts: Well I object to this because I wanted to give it to a woman two days ago which wouldn't put us in the pickle here and now of never having given it to a woman which is very French Open.

1:12:36Catherine Whitaker: I was going to say, in the spirit of the French Open.

1:12:39Matt Roberts: I would say past David and past Matt have stitched up current David and current Matt.

1:12:46Catherine Whitaker: No, past Matt totally stands by his decision from a couple of days ago.

1:12:50Matt Roberts: You're OK at the end of this tournament with never having awarded Musketeer of the Day to a woman.

1:12:56Catherine Whitaker: Yeah. Diane Parry's going to lose to Amanda Nissamova. They haven't been doing as good stuff as the men. I mean, look, it is Kwame today. I'm not arguing with that. It's Kwame, it's a slam dunk.

1:13:08Jannik Sinner: But I'd be up for re-litigating Elsa Giacomo from a couple of days ago. Yeah, it's Kwame.

1:13:13Catherine Whitaker: They've lost out to Kwame both times. They've been a bit unlucky with, like, side of the draw, but it's Kwame both times.

1:13:22Matt Roberts: Yeah, agreed, it is Kwame. What have we got tomorrow, folks, on the tough side of the men's draw? This is how the day six order of play is looking. Chattier opens with Magdalene against Igor Svantec back-to-back women to open up Chattier Kelce Priz second on is Mir Andreeva against Marie Buzkova and now here's the surprise in the day session tomorrow Joel Fonseca against Novak Djokovic and in the night session Frenchman Conta-Alice up against Alexander Zverev in the night session now Matt you did circle that one as a possible that they could pin in the night session but I think we all settled on the likelihood that it would be Fonseca Djokovic.

1:14:03Matt Roberts: The plot thickened slightly by the reporting that Djokovic actually had requested day session yesterday. So it's possible he did again. I would be surprised given the state he was in after the match yesterday in press and how furious he was about the extra time that he had to spend out there in the sun. He mentioned the conditions a lot in that press conference. I personally would be surprised. But however it's come about, I find the scheduling of that match not before 3.30 tomorrow when, you know, sorry to be a broken record, it's going to be hot again. I find that interesting and potentially decisive.

1:14:41Matt Roberts: I don't quite know decisive which way. I just feel like the conditions will be a character in that match, a main character in that match, you know?

1:14:51Catherine Whitaker: Yes, I can definitely picture Novak Djokovic in particular looking very hot and bothered. and maybe quite stressed out and all of that kind of thing. I think it's a different case to Yannick Sinner. I'm not going to be thinking about an invisible finish line and wondering whether his whole body is going to stop being able to function like we saw with Sinner today.

1:15:22David Law: Djokovic has learnt how to manage these situations. He might look hot and bothered and uncomfortable, but he can get through.

1:15:28Matt Roberts: I agree, but it is about canister, isn't it? He's thinking Al-Khrazn and Sinner are gone. This is it. Let's face it, that's what Djokovic is thinking. He's thinking every extra minute that I spend out there in this heat is a minute gone from my tournament-long finite canister. I think that's how he views it.

1:15:50Catherine Whitaker: And he's in a section of the drawer, which is by far and away the toughest little section of the whole drawer, I think, because even if he gets past Fonseca, he's then got the winner of Rude-Paul. Most people would probably expect that to be Kasper-Rude. For Djokovic and Rude to be meeting in the fourth round of this French Open with the names left would be incredibly early. So there is a premium on trying to get things done quickly, I think. And that could make him extra dangerous. We have seen him, he could go the other way. Deadline Djokovic. Exactly, and he could be out to hurt Fonseca early and get on top of him and make a point, and that Djokovic is very, very dangerous.

1:16:36Catherine Whitaker: It was curious to me that apparently the request had come because he found the late finish that he had after Mpeshi Perikar hard, and he said he found getting to sleep really difficult, and he didn't want it to sort of mess up his schedule that sense, so he would prefer the days. Wouldn't last an hour in the podcast game, would he? Not for everyone.

1:17:01Matt Roberts: It's not for the faint of heart. Prediction for that one?

1:17:05Catherine Whitaker: Djokovic. Djokovic, yeah.

1:17:07Matt Roberts: What chance do you give Fonseca? 20%. Yeah, sounds about right. Okay.

1:17:13Catherine Whitaker: You love a percentage chance.

1:17:15Matt Roberts: I do. I like concrete, finite, quantifiable things.

1:17:20David Law: I can just imagine Djokovic getting him off balance a lot.

1:17:24Matt Roberts: And question mark over how he pulls up after five sets in the heat yesterday. Longland tomorrow opens with Borges against Rublev. Teichmann, your shooting star, David, against Karolina Mukova. Then it's Svitolina against Tamara Korpach. Can't say her name without laughing. Kasper Rude against Tommy Paul is last on Longland tomorrow. Mathieu opens with Kostik against Golubic. Then it's Mikkelsen-Hodar. Alex de Minot against the remains of Jakob Mensik. Mensik, go with God, Jakob. And Peyton Stearns against Belinda Bencic, last on Mathieu. These are third-round matches, of course. Tarante against Kerenja Busta on 14.

1:18:07Matt Roberts: Wong Starob Dubtseva on court seven. You've got Sarana Kastea in action on 14. Karin Hashanov against Jesper de Jong. He got in as a lucky loser, didn't he, Jesper de Jong? Capitalised on that. Beats Dan Barinka, won his second round. Here he is. What a tournament this is turning out to be, folks. It is a truly wild ride. With us for all of it is Bashir, our wonderful French Open mascot. Thank you, Bashir. Bashir has sent some wonderful content through to our Instagram that the events of today have prevented me from looking through. But rest assured, Elise, I'll be doing that when we get back to Tennis Podcast Towers.

1:18:47Matt Roberts: Hello to our mascots, Bodie, Maisie and Roger. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Geoff. Matt, let's have some shout-outs.

1:18:59Catherine Whitaker: We have Bob Murphy. Right, Bob. Hello, Bob. Who is from Western Sydney, Australia.

1:19:08David Law: Like your countryman, the late, great Bob Brett.

1:19:13Matt Roberts: Oh, very good. I'm reluctant to say Bob Bryan because Bryan from last night explicitly stated that he didn't want the Bryan brothers to be mentioned

1:19:25Catherine Whitaker: That might have been a surname thing might have been a spelling thing

1:19:29Matt Roberts: Well there we go, I've said the Bryan brothers It's out there now

1:19:32Catherine Whitaker: This Bob, our Bob, is a chef

1:19:34Matt Roberts: Oh, like Yannick's in his parents or certainly his dad

1:19:40David Law: Yeah, his dad Got any good recipes, Bob? I'm always written, I'm a chef

1:19:48Matt Roberts: Love that, Bob the chef Excellent, thank you Bob

1:19:51Catherine Whitaker: We also have Paul Bullock Hello Paul

1:19:55Matt Roberts: Who is from Kent The south east of England My neck of the woods

1:20:04Catherine Whitaker: And Paul says I was in the centre court crowd For Murray Nowbandian 2005 Wow, that's sad. The loudest crowd experience I can remember being part of. Easy to say in hindsight, but everyone could feel Andy Murray was going to be one of the best in British tennis history. The sense of hope and excitement was palpable.

1:20:28David Law: And Paul, like Paul Haas, the Dutch tennis player of the past, who I saw the other day and had a nice handshake with and a nice hello, how are you doing, la la la, and I just about stopped myself talking to him about the rally against Jimmy Connors in the 1991 US Open that is so famous of him throwing up five lobs Connors and Harhouse trying to smash them away and then eventually getting past and the crowd going wild. And I watched that on loop about seven times because social media kept suggesting it to me. But I didn't bring that up to Paul Harhouse, who's the namesake of Apple. Paul?

1:21:06Catherine Whitaker: Do you know what I would bring up to Paul Harhouse if I had bumped into him? What's that? Give me all the tea on Jesper de Jong Talon Greek sport. Absolutely. I mean, I'm sure he wouldn't, but I want to know.

1:21:18Matt Roberts: He's a bit of a talker, Paul Harhouse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think he might.

1:21:21Catherine Whitaker: Get him chatting. Okay, well, if we bump into him again, David. It's fine.

1:21:26David Law: All we've got to do is tell him we won't say it on the podcast. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, you know,

1:21:31Catherine Whitaker: might let the odd bit slip. Thank you, Paul. And finally, we have Laura Slattery from Dublin.

1:21:39Matt Roberts: Hello, Laura. Hi, Laura.

1:21:41Catherine Whitaker: Laura has been a listener since 2016 and is going to Queen's for the first time ever this year. Oh, yeah, love it, Laura. Women's quarter final day.

1:21:51Matt Roberts: I might see Serena Williams.

1:21:53David Law: Yes, lots of chat about Serena Williams coming back to play.

1:21:57Matt Roberts: Rumours that she's asked for a wild card to play doubles with Victorian Boko at Queen's.

1:22:02David Law: Wow.

1:22:02Matt Roberts: Wow.

1:22:04David Law: Quarter-vinals day is a good day of play, isn't it? It is a good day. At Queen's.

1:22:07Matt Roberts: Very good day.

1:22:08David Law: Every match on centre court.

1:22:10Matt Roberts: The mention of Dublin has reminded me that we just met a couple of listeners who came over to say hello to us, mother and daughter, who had flown in from Ireland this morning and had been over watching Anastasia Potapova against Katie Bolter, and they reported that Potapova's dog caused a hindrance.

1:22:31David Law: On the rise.

1:22:32Matt Roberts: Hindrance is on the rise.

1:22:33David Law: Catherine's kind of hindrance.

1:22:35Matt Roberts: Exactly. More of that kind of hindrance, please. Laura, like Laura Robson and Laura Siegmund.

1:22:43Catherine Whitaker: Yes.

1:22:45Matt Roberts: And Laura Pigossi.

1:22:47Catherine Whitaker: Oh, very good. Yeah.

1:22:49Matt Roberts: An abundance of Lauras. Laura, Bob and Paul, thank you ever so much for being friends of the Tennis Podcast. If you would like to become a friend of the Tennis Podcast, get access to all of our bonus content. and there will be a Roland Garros review show a couple of days after this tournament. I already feel like we're going to have quite a lot to process. You get access to that. All of our bonus episodes, we make a lot of them throughout the year. You get monthly live Q &A shows. You also get access to The Barge when you're a friend of the Tennis Podcast, and that is where the chat is happening.

1:23:21Matt Roberts: It's our non-toxic social space to talk about tennis with like-minded people, and it was a rockin' today, folks. People were having takes about Yannick Sinner. So the link is in our show notes if you would like to become a friend of the Tennis Podcast. You also get ad-free listening, all sorts of other fun things as well. That is the sound of people streaming away from Court 14, maybe?

1:23:45Catherine Whitaker: Yes, when Matteo Arnaldi has just taken a two sets to one lead on Stefanos Sitsipas.

1:23:52Matt Roberts: It is a wild tournament, folks. Hang on for dear life. Thank you for listening. We're part of the Athletic Podcast Network and we will be back tomorrow.

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