Indian Wells - Sabalenka, Sinner win…just

0:00As a small business owner, you're the CEO, the marketing team, and the customer service rep all at once. I was recently talking to a shop owner who told me their worst nightmare isn't a slow day, it's the vanishing act. It's that moment you're inches away from a deadline and the Wi-Fi just disappears. We've all felt that pit in our stomach when the connection flares up right when it matters most. Your business is only as strong as your connection. AT &T Business is the reliable provider built for that exact brand of hustle, so you can stay focused on the work that builds your legacy. Powered by AT &T Business.

0:34Built to work. Get AT &T Business at business.att.com.

0:42Matt Roberts: AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the 14500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com. This episode is presented by ServiceNow. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com.

1:35Matt Roberts: Hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast here with you live on Monday the 16th of March to talk about the climax to a cracking couple of weeks in India miles and to have a little look ahead to the coming fortnight in Miami as well. It is a packed show today and we have the full A-team present and correct. That includes you, Matt Roberts. How are you doing?

2:00Catherine Whitaker: Very good, thank you. Nice to be in the A-team for something. I was never in the A-team at school, so pleased about that. Show off to a good start.

2:07Matt Roberts: You're always our A-team, Matt. We don't know how we ever coped without you. David Law, the founder of the A-team, is here, of course. How are you doing, David? You say the A-team to me, and I think of B.A. Barakas and Murdoch and Face and Hannibal from the 80s. Does any of that ring a bell to any of you? Definitely some of our listener and viewership, David, will have some bells ringing, and perhaps some not. But those who do have bells ringing will have really enjoyed that reference, I'm sure. You're welcome. Here to potentially, hopefully, boost our YouTube follower numbers with the Tennis Podcast visual debut of his moustache.

2:52Matt Roberts: It is the Athletics' Charlie Eccleshare. How are you doing, Charlie? I'm good, thanks. Yeah, my Jordan Thompson tribute continues. oh man this tennis podcast might be too woke for you charlie uh you have just just made your indian moles debut how did that feel yeah it was good i've always been really curious to go given how um sort of well marketed i suppose it is you know the whole tennis paradise thing and back in the day like the fifth major um and yeah i really enjoyed it i mean it's it is a pretty spectacular sight um and uh it was a good vibe i was well looked after um yeah i mean it feels pretty luxurious to be in kind of the californian desert when it's kind of raining and grim back home um so yeah i had a very nice time and now you've crashed back down to earth by coming home to a kitchen renovation situation yeah a week away from that was pretty luxy as well i'll be honest not having a kind of temporary kitchen and washing up in the bath.

4:05Matt Roberts: We have got finals to talk about. We've got some semi-final, quarter-final stories to touch upon as well that have happened since our last podcast on Thursday last week. Let's start with the women's and a title, a maiden Indian Wells title for Irina Sabalenka, she'd be Elena Rabatkinna in a truly thrilling final. 3-6, 6-3, 7-6, saving match point in that deciding set tie break. Rabatkinah, by the way, goes up to world number two, which is absolutely fitting for where she feels in the tennis ecosystem just at the moment. Matt Roberts, will we be talking about this match as a match of the season contender come December and our awards, our various different awards and review shows that we always do at that time of the year?

4:59Catherine Whitaker: I would say if we're not, then we're about to embark on like maybe the best season of tennis ever because that was so good. And I will definitely be remembering it at the end of the year. It just had all the ingredients that you look for in a big match, right? First and foremost, great drama. You did not know who was going to win this one right to the very end. incredibly high quality, I think, for the most part from both players as well. And also like the context of them having just played some big finals as well. You know, like the context of their rivalry shaped this match and how we felt about it as it was unfolding.

5:43Catherine Whitaker: And it felt big, especially for Irina Sabalenka. That feels like a weird thing to say that the world number one kind of needed this one. But I did feel like she did, you know, like she has. in her words she's sick of losing big finals and she in particular she'd lost four in a row against Elena Rabatkinner in finals it had been a while since she'd felt like winning one of these against her and she was match point down and she came up with a backhand that I will definitely definitely definitely be remembering at the end of the season you cannot hit a sweeter backhand than the one that Sabalenka hit to save match point in that tie break and ended up getting the win.

6:24Catherine Whitaker: And yeah, it really delivered this one in terms of drama and quality. I absolutely loved it.

6:34Matt Roberts: David, full disclosure to our listeners and viewers. I watched the first set in a bit of this match and was unable to continue watching the rest. My full intention was to catch up on the match today. But Avanti West Coast Trains Wi-Fi didn't support those aims and ambitions for me this afternoon. So I need you to tell me what on earth happened from the point where Elena Rabakina looked like she was unplayable, unstoppable. the point at which Irina Sabalenka and frankly anybody else that would have been standing at the other end of the tennis court looked completely powerless against her. Yeah I mean it was really fascinating because the similarities to the Australian Open and final were really there in terms of the way the first set went and the way that Rabakina is able to do things that Sabalenka just doesn't face against anybody else.

7:36It really freaks her out, actually, I think, the fact that she's uncowed by her. And she's so quietly refusing to be dominated. She just quietly just detonates these balls. And they hurt Sabalenka. And Sabalenka gets more and more wound up as it's going along. And yet, just as at the Australian Open final, she sort of wrestled it in her direction and leads the deciding set. And he's basically got to serve two service games out to win this match. And once again, Rabakina gets her. And I don't think it's a choke. I think it would be completely unfair to call it a choke, the fact that Rabakina ends up back on level terms and forcing a tiebreaker.

8:25I don't think that's what Sabalenka did. I do think she got tight, but I also think she had it then wrestled back off her. And then you get into this tiebreak and Matt pointed out you had this wonderful feel of what Rybakina does to Sabalenka and the fact that Sabalenka struggles to close out big finals at times. And yet she's in a tiebreak and she has this incredible tiebreak record. So you've got all these competing narratives going on and it's back and forth. But the point that was played with Rabakina serving match point up is that, I mean, you talk about match of the year contenders all you like.

9:06I think that this will be a point that I remember from this year and probably for many years to come. because Rybakina nails her first serve into the backhand corner. You get a hard backhand cross-court response from Sabalenka. Rybakina unloads on another one cross-court, the sort that have been denting Sabalenka's defence all match. And Sabalenka just said, F it. And she just threw every single bit. Is your mum watching, David? Possibly. she unloaded with all the power she'd got in her body onto her backhand and hit a clean win across court off a really good shot from Rebecca it was just one of those shots that made you yelp if you're watching it and that that turned it that just turned it in in Sabalenka's direction and it was it was an awesome sight um so she kind of was under the gun and yet she wrestled it back off Rebecca, which I found really great for the rivalry, because this is a proper rivalry now.

10:14And I was thinking back to when we put in our title of the previous show about, are we about to get a Sinkaraz and Sabatek couple of finals? And we didn't get either. And then I thought, you know, maybe it's not right to be talking about Svantec in this rivalry now, because really, it's Rebecca has replaced her with this match in particular and going to number two in the world. She is the rightful player to be in that conversation, if we're completely honest.

10:47Matt Roberts: Yeah, Charlie, you did a big nod when I said, you know, Rebecca can are up to world number two and that's absolutely where she feels like. In terms of this rivalry, it does feel a bit like, you know, Shontek and Sabalenka is the one that we've all been trying to make happen And actually, this rivalry was kind of there all along, like with ebbs and flows. But, you know, they met in the final here a couple of years ago, three years ago, didn't they? And that was following on from their epic Australian Open final. Like, this has been right under our noses and we haven't been ignoring it. But we have been sort of saying, OK, that's nice.

11:23Matt Roberts: But, like, where are the Sabalenka-Shiontek matches that we all really want? But actually, this rivalry kind of feels like the one, I think. definitely at the moment and i mean they've got the thing that shaviontek and sabalenka have never had of playing each other regularly in a short space of time and that's always been the thing that's been so frustrating about sabalenka and shaviontek and how few how rarely they've met at grand slams that it's just never really been able to catch fire obviously that madrid final a couple of years ago notwithstanding um so yeah it was fascinating and i mean it did remind me when when jokovic and nadal used to play on hard courts back before jokovic just completely had his number on hard courts and the way they would sort of raise each other's game i loved it and i just think sabalenka and i said this in the voice note i think it was after the us opened that she's such a hard person mentally to characterize and i think players are often but we kind of we want to simplify it because she's both the most clutch player there is while at the same time she has this finals problem and this match was kind of all of that in microcosm because she did fail to serve it out but then it gets to the tie break where we know she's like the ultimate clutch player but so many of those tie breaks come after she's blown a lead um including this match like it's such a strange dynamic like i i find her so compelling and even her overall finals record is like historically bad for a dominant world number one i mean she's basic she basically for her career wins as many finals as she loses and obviously her slam record is won four loss for and actually when that was put to Sabalenka at the Australian Open, she was kind of surprised that it was even that good.

13:03In her head, you know, this was just another final that she'd lost because in her mind she always loses the finals, you know, and it's not that bad, but they do, those losses almost stick in our minds more because I think in our heads and certainly in her head, she should be winning every one. Like she is the favourite for every final she plays. Although interesting, you know, I think this one was probably a 50-50 in most people's minds as was kind of the Australian Open final. But I think for the rivalry, for her, if you're being, just for the neutral kind of development of the rivalry and the story, I think her winning one is great for it.

13:40Just having lost the previous two. But I was determined during it, because do you remember that Madrid final as well? I remember thinking at the time that it kind of felt, whoever wins, like it's so, it almost felt arbitrary who won that final was Shviontek and Sabalenka. They were both just so brilliant. And I don't think, it's like, don't write this as, oh, Sabalenka was bad, Shviontek was good, or one's clutch, one's not clutch. It was just one or two points. And I think similarly yesterday, which is kind of hard to parse in some ways because we want it to be, we want it to be this great revelation and read so much into it.

14:16But I think it was, it was just so close. But I think, yeah, I'm glad in a way she was able to get over the line. So it didn't become this self-perpetuating narrative of Sabalenka can't win finals.

14:27Matt Roberts: Was there any physical element? Like, I don't think, from what I'm gathering, Rabakina didn't, you know, have a massive fade. But Sabalenka didn't have any fade at all. And it sounds like Rabakina maybe did have a little bit of a fade. Certainly the serve seemed to drop off a little bit in its effectiveness. I'm getting some hard nods from Charlie and I'm getting a hard nod from Matt as well.

14:52Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I thought that the conditions had to have an effect, right? It was such a long match. They were in the brutal heat. During the change of ends in the tiebreak, I noticed, obviously the players are not allowed to sit down. Sabalenka requested that the ball kid come over to her and put the umbrella above her head while she took a drink, just so she could get a little moment in some shade because there's no shade really on that court because it's so exposed and so open. It's not even like they can just go to the back of the court and get a moment's respite. Like, it's just several hours in the blazing sun.

15:30Catherine Whitaker: But actually, I do think it was...

15:32Matt Roberts: There was speculation the previous day that Yannick Sinner was adopting the extreme return position that he was against Alexander Zverev because that meant he got to stand in the shade for a little bit longer, which I found very relatable. Sorry, Matt, as you were.

15:49Catherine Whitaker: But yeah, it was, I think, Rabatkin who looked like she was feeling it physically a little bit. Like, I don't think it was the determining factor in the match. But like after Sabalenka had saved that match point, we then saw Rabatkin on the next one at 6-0 come to the net. And I felt in the moment watching that, like that was the decision of a slightly tired player. Like maybe she didn't have it in her legs to sort of hang from the baseline anymore. or it felt like she came to the net and she didn't hit a great volley there. So, yeah, I think it was an element, but it didn't feel like the absolute defining factor in the match.

16:30Catherine Whitaker: I also wanted to shout out the very start of the second set after Sabalenka had gone a break down. I thought it was a classic example of how sometimes smashing a racket and just letting your emotion out can really help you because Sabalenka was so frustrated as everything David's described in terms of the way Rabatkinner can cause her problems. And she went to break down at the start of the second set and against Rabatkinner, who'd been serving like that, the match is really starting to slip away from Sabalenka there. And she just smashed her racket, let out a bit of a roar, got all the sort of negative emotion out of her system and then played a ferociously good game to break straight back.

17:11And I just thought that was a defining feature.

17:15Catherine Whitaker: And I think good that it happened sort of early in the match. She got it out of the system. And then for the rest of it, she was a lot more sort of calm and composed. And, yeah, just really impressive.

17:26Matt Roberts: Tennis podcast advocates racket smashing Daily Express headline incoming. Well, I mean, I think it is. No, it can be an incredibly sort of therapeutic thing. But I remember asking Jason Stacey before the French Open final, how do you kind of straddle that line with with Arena of you don't want her to kind of get too frazzled and lose her head, but you also know that she can't just bottle it up. I think the line that sort of mantra they have is don't fight it, don't feed it. And it's kind of like, you know, there are times when you need to just accept that this is how you're feeling. Don't pretend you're not.

18:06Don't feed it by sort of trying to suppress it. And I think this was quite a good example of that. And as Matt says, it did seem to be quite helpful. Yeah, kind of. I mean, I think as well on the heat point, she said like straight away in her on-court interview afterwards that, you know, she was so hot, that she was so hot she could like barely think in that moment. I think she may have mentioned also getting a bit of cramp after the match as well. So clearly, even if she was able to manage it, it was very challenging conditions for both.

18:38Matt Roberts: very big week for the the new dog bounce theory uh david i'm always trying to persuade you to get a dog um arena sabalenka doing good good pr work in that department yeah it's a cute cute dog i mean i know it's a good dog isn't it i mean i think i misgendered him on on the last podcast i believe it's a he i sometimes ask you to tell me dog that you don't regard as good because i I would love that as a revelation. But I also sort of fascinated by Charlie saying that a racket smash can be quite therapeutic, as though Charlie does it all the time whenever he's in a bit of a hole.

19:18Catherine Whitaker: Oh, I used to. I've seen Charlie on the tennis court. I used to. I think there's a racket smasher.

19:24Matt Roberts: Are you Roger Federer, Charlie, the reformed racket smasher? Yeah, I think maybe. I mean, yeah, Matt's saying that, and I am reining it in big time when I'm playing with you guys. I'm like, I cannot show you how annoyed I am playing tennis. But when I was a kid, oh, I used to have such bad temperament shots at tennis. Yeah, in my head, I'm chucking the racket across the court. I am reliably informed, Matt, by the agenda that you wrote, that there is a backhand list update. Yeah, the time has come.

19:58Catherine Whitaker: There were a lot of calls for it at the Australian Open. I don't like to jump into these things, as you know. I don't like to be told what to do with my list. The last time I did jump into, I made a rash decision. I ended up with Maya Joint on the list. Obviously, no regrets.

20:16Matt Roberts: You could not drop her quickly enough. Haven't heard you even mention Maya Joint's name in some months.

20:24Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, obviously, no regrets. Love the backhand. But yeah, look, she's not on the list anymore. But Elena Rabakina. She's not even on the watch list. Elena Rabachner is going back on the backhand list. It's been on there before. I can't actually remember when she got bumped off. There's been several changes. But anyway, she's going back on. It's such a satisfying shot. There's so much damage. It has to be on the list. And of course, that unfortunately means that someone has to lose their place. and that is going to be Emma Raducanu losing her place on the backhand list just now. She's having a great week.

21:06Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, don't like to kick someone when they're down.

21:09Matt Roberts: Off the backhand list. You don't like to kick someone while they're down but you will do it. You will do exactly that. For the integrity of the backhand list. I'd rather not ideally but happy to do it. Lots for the Daily Express to get their teeth into today. we're only 20 minutes into the show give him another angle another Radicani angle Matt can I just ask you a backhandist question though there's not a relativity aspect to it it's not a kind of player whose backhand is way better than everything like it's okay that it's Rabakina who's the second best player in the world and is kind of really really good that doesn't affect your consideration

21:57Catherine Whitaker: no I think you're right I think you're right to pick up on that it very much does affect my consideration I do like it when uh the backhand is a player's like standout signature shot um I still think I still think it is that for Rebecca you know like if again if you watch this watch this final it was the forehand that went off in the middle of the second set that really did help Sabalenka get you know get back in as well the backhand is the reliable shot and it is just it is just undeniably great and it brings me a lot of satisfaction watching her hit it like that and I think I also realize just how good it is when she plays someone like Sabalenka right like the effortless stroke production on it and yet such power yeah it's on the list yeah it's a joke

22:46Matt Roberts: isn't it? It's a joke how easy she makes it look. Sabalenka might want to work after that match point today.

22:52Catherine Whitaker: Well, I knew someone was going to bring that up.

22:57Matt Roberts: And there it is. Anything to say?

23:00Catherine Whitaker: Well, the problem with Sabalenka is that it's not the standout. You know, kind of to Charlie's point there, that was a standout shot, but just like, how can you pick one thing with Sabalenka? Like the movement, the power, the forehand, the serve. She's got it. She's got it all.

23:16Matt Roberts: it's definitely my joint standout thing though I would say that's why she was one of the criteria

23:26Matt Roberts: before we move on from the women's singles in Indian Wells I feel like we should row back to the quarterfinals and just have a bit of a chat about Igor Shiontek's defeat because as David said in in the last show we were throwing forward to a potential Shiontek and and Sabalenka final, not just because, you know, we're guilty of trying to make that rivalry happen and we have been for a long time, but also because Iga Shontek had been so impressive. We'd been talking about her victory over Karolina Mukova and how it felt like she'd created this blueprint for the kind of tennis that she and Wim Fassett have been trying to get her playing over the course of the last year or so.

24:11Matt Roberts: It felt like not just a great performance but it felt like a huge building block it felt like something it felt like something significant and then we see her go into the quarterfinals and face Alina Svitolina who okay had beaten her before at Wimbledon but a player against whom certainly in the form that Shontek had been in in Indian Wells and as a former champion Shontek was heavily favoured to win this match and she lost 6-2, 4-6, 6-4. Matt, what happened to Shontek in this match?

24:47Catherine Whitaker: Well, I think there were several things at play here, you know, like that was the time in the tournament where suddenly it felt like the conditions suddenly got a lot quicker and the tournament got a lot hotter and she was also moved to court two rather than the main court which everyone was saying was playing quicker and she was playing a different opponent you know someone someone in Svitolina who who is having a brilliant season and can really push her um so those those were all factors none of them felt like big enough factors to quite explain what we ended up seeing from Stjantec in that match where she got off to an incredibly slow start in particular with the serve like the serve was just immediately an issue and coughing up double faults and that just seemed to like unsettle everything right from the start and basically she was struggling to like control the ball the entire day it was back to a lot with the iguja fiontech of overhitting and and missing big um that was certainly what happened in the first set she she said afterwards that she felt like in the second set she basically played to not miss and simply take pace off the ball played play a bit differently to what her strategy was and that helped her and she did end up getting it back to to one set all then she said afterwards that she what she wanted to do was go was actually play in the way she planned to so she went back to trying to hit the ball with a bit more purpose in the third set but just had absolutely no control on it and it and it really ran away from her and then we saw some some tough scenes at the end where she was you know really frustrated and there was some you know some quite bad body language back and forth with her with her box like the vibes were kind of bad there as well and look it was unfortunately quite a familiar tale really where she looks pretty good through the first few rounds of a tournament and then gets to a certain stage against a really good opponent gets under a bit of pressure things start going wrong and it kind of tail spins and that was happening last year a lot of the semi-final stage it started to happen a bit more at the quarter final stage this season and yeah you sort of mentioned Rebecca's ranking being number two if you look at the race Svantec is 10 in the race right now and look clay is still to come and that is her best time of year and I would never judge her Svantec season fully until you know certainly until we've seen her on the clay but we're used to better starts to the season than this and for her to lose to Svitolina Svitolina is in that category of player who is very, very good and a top 10 player.

27:28Catherine Whitaker: But she used to have an amazing record against the top 10. She was 36 and 9 against the top 10 from the start of 2022 to the Olympics in Paris. She is 11 and 14 since then. Like, I think she has come back to the field. The field have caught up with her and she no longer just has this dominance over the rest of her best players. It's like she's still a really, really good player, but there are players now who are pushing her and causing stress and the game is just not quite clicking under those scenarios and the vibes don't look great with the team.

28:05Matt Roberts: Yeah, it was a struggle to watch, actually,

28:09Catherine Whitaker: because it was a reminder of how quickly things can change because, as you said, things were looking good. I fell into the trap.

28:17Matt Roberts: Well, that's it, isn't it, David? and it's a strange sort of inertia watching Iga Shontek at the moment because this defeat doesn't change how well she played against Karolina Mukova and other similar performances. She's not in a terrible trough and consistently playing bad matches, but the fact that she can be playing really well against decent opposition for two, three matches and then it suddenly all looks so frail all of a sudden. It's almost more disconcerting. It's like form can cease to mean anything and something else can take over and it must... If as viewers it makes us feel sort of as unsettled as it does, she must feel very much like she's on uncertain foundations.

29:11Matt Roberts: It's a very weird place to be with Iga Schwantek at the moment, I think. Yeah, I think I'm still probably trading off memories in many ways when I watch her because I still remember the player who had the streak and kind of had streaks like that most years. And I realise a lot of that was clay court dominance as well, but I didn't used to, apart from when she would overhit, those were the only moments when I would really lose confidence in her. Now, match to match, I don't feel confident that I know what's coming from her racket. Whereas game-wise, there are certainly question marks over Rebecca and what she was like a couple of years ago.

29:55And the matches she would miss because of sleep deprivation and all the issues she was having with Vukov off the court. And the investigation and all those sort of things. But game-wise, you know what her game is. You know what Sabalenka's game is. Once you got rid of the service problems, you knew what the game was. There were always those sort of question marks over Goff's game. But it feels like now we've got them over Svantex and didn't used to have that. And what was interesting in this particular match is Svitolina has kind of signed her reinvention with this hyper-aggressive play. And yet she wasn't doing it in the third set of this match.

30:36She was aware of what was going on down the other end of the court. And she played really conservative tennis at Svitolina and just said, come on, break me down. And she waited for it to miss. And it was happening. And I could see Schvantech trying to do the things. And at some points it would work. She would put more flight. And it's actually a lovely sight to behold when she gets it right. But I think she's still having to think about it too much. Imagine being a player at that level where you're having to think that often about what you're doing next when it's not second nature the way you want it to be.

31:15And I do think that the Wimbledon victory makes you sort of stop in your tracks and think, yeah, but she won Wimbledon. It's just that I don't feel that confident that week to week she's going to be her best self at the moment. And that's just unusual. That's an unusual feeling from what we used to have for the first three or four years of her kind of dominant period.

31:45Yeah, I mean, I'm wary of sort of, like David says, of writing off too much because of that Wimbledon. And I remember we recorded, I remember doing the show with you guys after she just lost to Sabalenka in Paris last year, got bageled in the third set. And at that point, I really felt fearful for her. And then she went and won Wimbledon. So I was kind of like, oh, well, you know, don't leap to conclusions. And maybe this time we'll go too far the other way and there'll be a bit of a lag before we sort of accept what's happening. It's really difficult to say. And I think, like you were saying, Catherine, about what's worrying, I think for me is that she is on this really bad run of top 10 players.

32:23I can't remember how many it is in a row now that she's lost, but it is quite a few. And I think that is far worse for a player in a way. Like it's better to be kind of frustratingly inconsistent in that, well, you can beat the world number one in your day, but also you might lose the world number 50 or 100. At the moment, she's kind of just getting beaten when she plays elite players. Like no matter who that is, they're winning. That I think is really worrying and kind of, especially when you've been, you know, such a serial winner. And I saw and I remember like I was trying to make a comparison in my head, like a comparable one.

32:58and it's not quite right because he didn't win as many but David you'll remember this but when Leighton Hewitt went from being the guy and then all of a sudden wasn't and I'm not comparing those two and I saw someone make the comparison I think it was on a comment on your last show about they raised Martina Hingis and obviously Hingis was all conquering won five slams in a row between 97 and 99 and then never won another one and again I'm not saying that is what's going to happen with but there is precedent for players it's very strange for us to understand but there is precedent for players to go from being the absolute dominant world number one who we just assume will keep winning forever to not being and it not being because there's a sudden moment when it all falls apart but it's a combination of lots of things of like you say the feel getting better the aura slightly going the confidence then slightly going and and that just sort of builds up over time where now you're in a place where I think a lot of those players are kind of relishing playing her in a way that they were terrified before.

34:02Matt Roberts: I think that's definitely true. Yeah, it does feel like something needs to change. A lot of people talking about changing the team. They're definitely, you know, the vibes, the vibes were bad she was gesturing a lot towards Dario Abramovich her longtime psychologist in the box that that didn't look like great energy to me um maybe make a change uh for a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel if we've learned anything this week it's that every team maybe needs a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel um the doubles the women's doubles in Indian Wells won by Taylor Townsend and Katerina Siniarkova. Siniarkova, having retired from her singles match against Lina Svitolina with injury, came back among the doubles with Taylor Townsend.

34:53Matt Roberts: They beat Anna Danilina and Alexandra Krunic, one of the teams of 2026, 7-6, 6-4 in the final. It's their fourth title together, Townsend and Siniarkova. Revenge for the defeats to Krunic and Danilina in the quarterfinals of the Australian Open this year and in the quarterfinals of Roland Garros last year. And Taylor Townsend missed her son's birthday on the day of the finals. So she gave him a shout out in the trophy ceremony. And that was extremely lovely. So good vibes all around there. It was a great tournament in the end. It was a really, I think kind of the men's event kind of in terms of like consistent entertainment throughout the 12 days whatever it was I feel like the men's event really delivered but it was a fantastic climax to the to the women's event I really really enjoyed it and that is it for part one we'll be back to talk about the men's event in part two today's show is brought to you by Vanguard to all the financial advisors listening let's talk bonds for a minute.

36:03Capturing value in fixed income isn't easy. Bond markets are massive, murky, and let's be real, lots of firms throw a couple of flashy funds your way and call it a day, but not Vanguard. Vanguard bonds are institutional quality. Institutional quality isn't a tagline, it's a commitment to your clients. It means top grade products across the board. Vanguard's been in the game a long time, and their scale gives them a serious edge. They're able to invest across all kinds of sectors, maturities and geographies, which means they can spot and act on opportunities that others might miss. So if you're looking to give your clients consistent results year in and year out, go see the record for yourself at vanguard.com forward slash audio.

36:50That's vanguard.com forward slash audio. All investing is subject to risk. Vanguard Marketing Corporation Distributor. Hey, everybody. This is Knox from the Popcast with Knox and Jamie. Back to school always brings a little nostalgia, fresh notebooks, new shoes, sharpened pencils, and trying to remember your friend's home phone number. But today, staying connected looks a little different. Between pickups, practices, and after school activities, kids need a way to reach their parents. And parents need peace of mind, too. That's where Gab comes in. Gab makes phones and watches designed for kids with no social media apps or internet browsers.

37:24Kids get the connection they need, while parents get features like GPS check-ins, managed contacts, safer messaging, and Gab music, which is clean songs curated for kids. This year, skip the adult smartphone and choose a phone made with kids in mind. Use code GETGAB to get$25 off at gab.com slash getgab. That's Gab, G-A-B-B. You're a pro at running your life, at committing to your workout, at showing up every day. At Bombas, we're pros too. Pros at making socks. Our sport assortment has specialized socks for whatever sport you're committed to. Running, hiking, golf, Pilates, and so much more. Made with sweat-wicking yarns, blister-fighting details, and targeted arch support.

38:04Bombas Sport is pro-level socks from the pros of socks. For another pro, you. Go to bombas.com slash audio and use code audio for 20 % off your first purchase. That's bombas.com and use code audio.

38:17Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast, where we have a title in Indian Wells. Finally, for Yannick Sinner, he beat a resurgent Daniel Medvedev, 7-6, 7-6 in the final, came from love four down in the second set tie break, reeling off seven points in a row, who won the title for the first time, becoming the youngest man to claim all the big hardcourt titles. That's the Masters 1000 on hardcourts, the ATP finals, and the two Grand Slams on hardcourts. That's the youngest man to do it by six years. Federer did it, but not until he was 30. Yannick Sinner, David, is very good on a hardcourt, and he had to be because Daniel Medvedev also right now is bloody good on a hard court.

39:13He sure is. He sure is. I really thought after that Medvedev win over Alkraza that I was thinking Medvedev was going to win this final because the level he was playing was just a joke. I mean, I was looking back. He'd won his, prior to this final, he'd won his previous 18 sets in a row in Dubai and Indian Wells. He'd won a lot in straight sets. And apart from 1.75 set against Jack Draper and 1.76 set against Carlos Alcruz, he'd won all the sets easily. And he was doing it with these raking drives, forehand and backhand, hit absolutely as hard as he could, as sweet as a nut. And they were just, they were hurting the best two players in the world.

39:59in Alkraus and Sinner. And I really was, I think it's a great credit to Sinner that he actually managed to win this final, particularly in straight sets in the end. But he was hurting in both of the sets. A lot of the baseline rallies, frankly, Medvedev was having the better of. It was really Sinner's first serve that was doing the damage. I mean, there was one stat that popped up that he'd won 31 of his first 32 points when he got his first serve in. I mean, those are incredible stats. You know, I remember in the Australian Open, I did one of those. I was going to reference this, David. Do. I think I did it with all three of you at different times, which is to say, I just, a question pops into my head and I say, whose serve would you rather have out of Alcaraz and Sinus?

40:51Yes. Yeah, yeah. I do remember that. Gave it some proper thought and gave me a, in fact, it was quite a delay before I got an answer. And eventually Charlie gave me a very considered answer as to why he would go sinner. I said I'd go. I can't believe you're doing this to me today, David. We went about our day. I then asked Catherine about this. And I think I might have asked it at a bad time. And Catherine was, I don't want to have to think about this. basically is the gist of what you said.

41:25Matt Roberts: No, I said I hate questions like this and I stand by it. So it was more across the board, right. It was not circumstantial. You would have got a variety of a version of that answer. Maybe I was a bit snappy about it. And I can't remember what Matt said.

41:41Catherine Whitaker: I actually can't remember what I said either. Obviously, for the purposes of this, I definitely said Yannick Sinner. Well, I mean, honestly, watching this was like watching Pete Sanford. It was unbelievable what Sinner was doing. But even then, you get into that second set tiebreak and Mevidev establishes a four-love lead in a tiebreak. That doesn't seem any way back. And even in the fifth point, Sinner kind of misses the first serve, rolls his second serve in. Mevidev gets to have a go at it and puts a deep return in. But he does make an unforced error in that particular rally. Thereafter, he basically didn't have a chance.

42:20I mean, Siena just took it over and won seven points in a row to win that tie break. It was the definition of sort of clutch play and just brilliant from both of them. I'd like to think that Medvedev will come out of this tournament feeling great because he bamboozles Alcraz and made Alcraz question a few things, certainly on the day, and I thought Medvedev was sensational. But Sinner got the title and that's in itself incredible.

42:54Matt Roberts: And it's pretty massive, Charlie, to be describing Yannick Sinner as clutch in the context of that Australian Open semi-final defeat to Novak Djokovic. I don't think anyone was suggesting that he was suddenly going to become this great choker. But he just had a bit of a ship to steady on that front. And I feel like he really did in this final in particular. Yeah, on that front and also on the playing in the heat front and also a bit on the serve front because he's had some pretty ropey days. I mean, the fact really that David was asking that question and that I took as long to answer as I did does speak to both Alcaraz's improvement on the serve, but also Sinner's slight regression because I think that would have been a pretty straightforward answer, you know, this time a year ago or would have been for me anyway.

43:43So he kind of addressed, you know, a number of the questions that have been asked of him. I mean, it's so rare, I think, where you have a final that both players come out of it with so much credit. I mean, yeah, huge for Sinner to do it. But I was just blown away by Medvedev. I still can't quite believe how well he played, how aggressively, how consistently his big shots were going in and doing damage. Because I kept thinking, I mean, admittedly, I thought of this without Kress, so maybe I should have learned my lesson. But I was like, he started really well. But how sustainable is this? because we've seen players, whether it's against Alcaraz or Sinner or Djokovic was the classic example.

44:21They're such a high tariff. Okay, you can do this for a few games. You might even do it for a set. You're not going to do this all match. Like eventually these huge forehands that he was hitting up the line, they're going to start going out, but they just didn't. Like he really had, and I thought, you know, after he lost that first set, which, you know, he left that volley had he made, he would have been the mini breakup. He may well have won it. I thought maybe that's going to cause a lapse. It didn't. I mean, and I put my hands up. I thought, you know, last year with Medvedev, I just did not see this turnaround coming.

44:53I really didn't. And I guess maybe that's a lesson with Sviantek. It does change very quickly. And obviously Sviantek's in a different bracket even to him. But what a turnaround.

45:01Matt Roberts: round the um the the aggression that medvedev is clearly playing with is is obviously very very striking he's pulling the trigger down those lines in like an absolutely thrilling thrilling way and the precision with which he's doing it is incredible but like okay it's it's perhaps a marker of you know the new work with thomas johansson but medvedev back when he was having his greatest success, he was quite an aggressive player. Like I think it doesn't surprise me that now he's found a bit of confidence, he feels a lot more able to do that. What really does surprise me, Matt, is that he seems to have got his serve back.

45:42Matt Roberts: Like I thought the Medvedev serve was lost forever. I'm not suggesting it's perhaps where it was in 2019, but it looks somewhat back to me.

45:56Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I agree. And if we focus on the semifinal against Alcaraz, the absolutely standout number there was the number of points that Medvedev was winning on his second serve. Like Alcaraz is a generationally good returner of serve. And yet he could kind of get nowhere close to the Medvedev second serve. Medvedev was winning points behind that shot 70 plus percent of the time. And look, a lot of that was because he was backing it up so well with his ground strokes and with his aggression. But the first serve was effective. The second serve was was far less attackable and far less vulnerable than it has been for a long time.

46:39Catherine Whitaker: Yeah. Like for anyone who's become like an out like a tennis fan in the Alcaraz Sina years, you know, they've got into the sport maybe in the last couple of years. and they've seen this Medvedev figure and they're like, how did that guy win a major and was world number one and was like the best hard court player in the world? He's a bit of a joke, isn't he? Like he's losing to Benjamin Bonzi all the time and crashing out at Grand Slams and ranting and raving all the time. Well, this is how, like this tennis. And like, arguably this was even more aggressive than he was in his prime. And he says, as you said, he always thinks of himself as an aggressive player when he's playing well.

47:19Catherine Whitaker: He took it up a level. The fact that, like, I felt like during this final that the fact that Sinner had played Fonseca was quite good preparation for him to then play Medvedev kind of told it all, right? Because it was a similar sort of feel. Sinner having to revert to the role of, OK, I'm not going to be playing all the points in attack here. I'm going to have to absorb and I'm going to have to win some tie breaks and come up clutch in the big moments. And it was so impressive that he did do that Sinner. But I just love seeing when like an Alcaraz and a Sinner, the best players in the world, are made to come up with the goods.

47:57Catherine Whitaker: And Fonseca forced Sinner to do it and Medvedev forced both Alcaraz and Sinner to do it this week. And Alcaraz couldn't quite do it to beat him. Sinner did. And yeah, rumors of Yannick Sinner's demise that may have been discussed or exaggerated or debated very much just rumours because that is how this rivalry works. They just keep responding to one another and Sinners had a big week there and was impressive.

48:28Matt Roberts: And rumours of Carlos Alcaraz maybe never losing a tennis match again also exaggerated. Can I just ask you guys a question because I fall on the more positive side for the chasing pack here but do we think this is an encouraging week for the field in the sense that Medvedev's shown that, you know, you can, if you're fearless, beat one and push one close? Or is it a, okay, so even if I'm redlining and playing basically to my absolute maximum, I might beat one, but I'm still going to lose to the other. Like, I think the former, I think it is encouraging. But yeah, curious to know what you guys think.

49:05Matt Roberts: I hate questions like that, Charlie.

49:12David, you're indulging me.

49:13Matt Roberts: No, it's a good question. You go for it, David. I actually think the whole year has been quite encouraging because even though Senna and Alcaraz keep end up winning the titles, they haven't actually played the two big finals that we all thought they would play. And yes, it's Djokovic and Medvedev who've ended up disturbing those finals. But I mean, you know, Medvedev... I thought Medvedev would do this at the Australian Open. and then he was terrible at the Australian Open then he'd come out and done this but with Draper and Feast back in the mix of things and Tien's clear improvement albeit he was manhandled by Sinner when they faced each other that was a bit of a reality show albeit I think Tien was probably a bit wiped out as well after his long match against Davidovich Fikina and I mean Zverev at the Australian Open was close against Alcraz, you know, but then he was nowhere near Sinner in Indian Wells.

50:18By the way, that was hilarious, that he came out saying that he was going to take the fight to Sinner, and then the moment the guy stands at the backstop and just gives him a different look, his game completely fell apart. But I actually think, generally speaking, it should give them some encouragement. that these guys, you can beat them if you play well enough and they have a bit of an off day and if you're good enough. But it's still fairly small. Yeah, quite a lot of ifs. I guess there's well if you see. Yeah, there are.

50:56Matt Roberts: Quite a lot of circumstances need to align. But certainly for someone like Djokovic, you'd think he'd be thinking, you know, he probably knows beating them both, he's seen as close to impossible, but he's showing he can beat one and then maybe there's a chance that Medvedev or someone might take out the other. And I'm sure he would still back himself to beat. I mean, obviously this Medvedev is playing unbelievably, but that's still a different proposition to playing either of them back to back. Matt?

51:25Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I'm with David and Charlie. I'm definitely leaning on a positive overall week and start to the season for the field. You know, the fact that we haven't had a Sinner-Alcaraz match yet, as David said, like we had so many at the back end of last season. I think there was there was some circumstance to that as well, like because Draper and Feast were out and Sinner had had the three month break in the start of the season. He was so fresh towards the end of the season. Alcaraz had just gone up a level. They just sort of had the men's tour to themselves, really. I just think the reset has helped the field a little bit in terms of just showed more promise.

52:09Catherine Whitaker: Maybe it's just start of the season vibes and I'm sort of giving players more of a chance because it's the start of the season and things are feeling new and fresh. But I don't know. I really do think people are playing well here. and yeah like if we get a load of Alcaraz in a final suddenly I think that changes but as long as one of them is losing before the final that to me is quite a win for the field and yeah I'm really encouraged actually by the start of the season on the ATP side I think it's been I think it's been really intriguing in lots of ways with the older guys returning to form like Djokovic and And is Medvedev in that bracket now?

52:53Catherine Whitaker: I suppose he probably is. But like also the younger guys and returning from injury just feels like the pool of players who I'm sort of really interested in tournament to tournament is quite big at the moment. And I didn't feel like that for quite a large period of 2025.

53:13Matt Roberts: I'm almost a little bit relieved for Ankaraz that his streak is over as well. because I just feel for players when they get on a streak. I always remember that. Do you remember the sign that was held up for Iga Shontek when she was on her massive, massive streak that ended up coming to an end at Wimbledon? I think it was at the French Open. It was, will she ever lose? And of course, that ends up being the narrative around a streak. Somebody, they end up feeling unbeatable and yet of course they are going to be beaten and that frenzy of pressure I kind of feel sorry for. I mean Al Kras looked like he was handling it just fine.

53:57Matt Roberts: He was putting on B costumes at the end of his match. He didn't look to be suffering with the pressure of the streak. But the longer it went on I think the less fun maybe it was going to be but then winning is always fun. I don't know. I just wanted to be able to mention Alcaraz in the bee costume because it was one of those like, God, what a gift this guy is, right? Like he could probably have done any sport, like another sport could have Carlos Alcaraz right now. But like he's a gift to ours and we get to look at just that joyful face wearing a bee costume. The beauty of it being back to front, the wings are on the front.

54:43and he doesn't notice or care.

54:47Matt Roberts: It was a good time, Matt, wasn't it?

54:50Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, it was great. And I am so pleased that the bee thing in Indian Wells is continuing. I thought maybe two years on I might get bored of it. I might think, oh, the bee thing is over. But no, my heart sang when I saw those blokes dressed as the bees. I want in 15 years time if Alcarez is still playing and going back to Indian Wells I want people to be dressed up as bees I want that moment the Lance Davis bee swarm of it all just to always be remembered because I had so much fun that night.

55:26Matt Roberts: How would you feel about the bee becoming an Alcarez thing outside of Indian Wells?

55:31Catherine Whitaker: No I want it just at Indian Wells. No like Sinner and his carrots. No Indian Wells. You want it just at Indian Wells okay. Just at Indian Wells I feel strongly about that.

55:38Matt Roberts: Matt has spoken. Matt, I'm going to come to you again because it would be rude to go to anybody else for hindrance drama.

55:48Catherine Whitaker: Yes. I was so pleased when I woke up to this.

55:55Matt Roberts: I'm declaring it now officially on the rise, if not an epidemic. We're certainly on epidemic watch, I would say. And I actually think the fact that Hindrance Drama has been on the rise, I think that was a factor in this. Yeah, I'll let Matt explain what happened in the Medvedev-Draper match for anybody that wasn't aware. I know that this has gone very viral, but it's like Hindrance Drama is really reaching fever pitch now. Like we might genuinely have to introduce an official segment on the show. Matt, take it away.

56:36Catherine Whitaker: And I think part of the reason it's on the rise, and I hadn't really made this correlation before, but it makes sense, is video review, right? Like you now have an option as a player to review things that just weren't available to you before, such as hindrance if it hasn't been called already by the umpire. And this was that example. So Medvedev-Draper. Medvedev is, as we thought, winning this match. Draper's a little bit, just a little bit sluggish, I suppose, coming back the next day after that incredible effort against Novak Djokovic. And Medvedev's playing brilliantly well. And he's en route to winning this match.

57:18Catherine Whitaker: And a rally unfolds and Medvedev hits a ball that lands pretty close to the baseline. and Draper gestures mid-rally, does one of those like looking down at it, puts his arms out a little bit as though to say, hang on, wasn't that out? There's definitely a moment where Draper does that mid-rally. But then the rally continues. Both players hit a few more shots in the rally and Draper wins the rally. And then afterwards, Medvedev is the one who asks for the video review and says that what Draper did on that ball that was near the baseline was hindrance and put him off and the umpire orally taught allowed that to happen watch the watched it and declared that medvedev had been hindered by that movement that that draper made um and draper's argument was yes he may have seen it but he wasn't he wasn't put off enough by it because the rally the rally kept going um and i think kind of what you're saying there and i think i agree katherine is that the fact that medvedev knows that the option is available to him he sort of he's seen a route to potentially win this point that he's already lost and he and he takes advantage of that uh wording in the rule i think there was a there was a incident the australian open last year with fiontech and navarro when navarro actually wasn't able to go back and and question something that happened earlier on in the rally and it it led to a change and now umpires do allow you to do that personally i think too much time passed in this rally and there should have been more the approach of what we used to have with hawkeye and line calling where if you want to stop the rally if you're bothered by something i think you've got to do it much sooner than medvedev did here certainly certainly you know the point had already finished and he lost it it it seemed a little bit like trying to bend the rules and use that to his advantage and he was pretty sheepish.

59:25Catherine Whitaker: A little bit. He was pretty sheepish at the end, Medvedev, when he said, I hope you don't hate me to Draper.

59:32Matt Roberts: I think this is a very generous take from you, Matt. Daniel Medvedev was kind of less generous about his own behaviour than you have been. He pretty much fully acknowledged that it was pretty dastardly, didn't he? He was like, I'm here to win tennis matches. I'm going to try and do everything I can to win them and it's up to the officials to do their job. And like, yeah, he's right. I think this is Orelie Taut's fault, I'm afraid. I don't want to come down too hard. It's a difficult job umpiring. But I do think this was very, very clearly a bad call. I think it was pretty dastardly from Medvedev.

1:00:12Matt Roberts: We'd probably go a bit easy on him because he owns it. and there's so few that do that that it is, it does take the edge off. But it was dastardly, come on. I do remember. He was not hindered.

1:00:28Catherine Whitaker: I do remember thinking that Navarro was unlucky in that one before and it did to me feel like there needed to be some kind of... And some kind of change to the ruling to allow the kind of Navarro. But then it's like opening the can of worms. And then you get to a situation where you allow this sort of thing that Medvedev did. So there's a kind of a gray area. It's a classic case of VAR in sport does not necessarily solve all the issues. We've got the we've got the anti VAR guy on the pod. We should probably go to Charlie for orally taught see Kevin friend. i know yeah literally like as soon as i stopped covering football and thought oh no more var and then that was basically the moment the tennis introduced it i just can't escape it i've got to embrace it it's part of my life no the navarro one is a really good example because that was so unfair on her because it was like she shouldn't be expected to kind of self-officiate and that's what i thought was always hard about hawkeye challenging and all of that was it was great for spectators and created aggro and drama but bloody big ask on the players who already have enough to worry about and be stressed about to also kind of half self-referee their matches but this one was different I mean Draper I'm sure he will now reflect on it because he did it a few times in the Djokovic match as well was kind of reacting visibly to shots as if to be like in the moment be like what like that's that looked in or that looked out like you could see him being surprised.

1:01:58I think there may have been, I think that he criticised the automatic line calling at Wimbledon, I seem to remember, last year. So I think he is one of those players who is a bit distrusting of it. But yeah, I think it was opportunism. But you're spot on, Catherine, because Medvedev, we love him. He's funny. He's quirky. He owns it. There are plenty of players who if they'd done that, I think we'd be coming down a lot harder on.

1:02:22Matt Roberts: Yeah, he was not expecting I really taught to go with it I don't think David he was like I'll give this a go probably probably not gonna work oh right you're right you're with me on this cool I think he was slightly feeling a bit bad even as he was they were going through the process um and and I think because because he thinks Draper's a good bloke as well and that he was sort of telling him, nah, nah, that's not enough to put you off. I think he was sort of feeling worse by the second. But also, then the other little devil on the shoulder saying, yeah, but look at all the times you've been screwed, Daniel.

1:03:06Don't forget those, all right? So I think there's a bit of an internal battle going on in there. But yeah, I didn't love it, really. even though it was also fun i'd just be so worried about the karma if i was medvedev after that it's like with my non-out call in the one point slam you know i was just like i can't do this i'm not sure and it's like this is going to come back to bite me in the ass at some point i'm surprised medvedev you know maybe that's why he's an elite athlete that's the only reason charlie um we had

1:03:39Matt Roberts: some crossing crossing of worlds charlie was hanging out with our mate our mate dave at the weekend and our mate Dave texted us and said I saw Charlie Eccleshire at the weekend he said yeah he was he was still talking about his defeat in the one point slam this yeah that I was understandably Charlie yeah it was not a sort of like how are you doing I'm fine yeah have I told you about what happened at the one point slam but yes I do still think about it a lot I have to say

1:04:12Catherine Whitaker: I think the biggest shock of the whole Hindrance drama was that Greg Allensworth was not in the chair. I feel like he's always at the scene of these events and yet finally one has happened without him.

1:04:26Matt Roberts: He had done his work in the Sinner, was it the day before? Maybe it was on the same day. He'd been utterly useless but in an incredibly pleasing way during the Sinner crowd drama. I mean, Sinner dealt with it himself, didn't he? there was somebody incredibly obnoxious in the front row. Yeah, it was the front second match, wasn't it? Right, yeah, Sinner went over and just dealt with it himself. And it was one of those where it's like, oh, if Sinner's pointing this out, then it must be bad because it's Yannick Sinner, you know. And the situation seemed to be very much under control and kind of already in the past at the point at which Greg Allensworth jogged into the picture and appeared looking very officious.

1:05:14Matt Roberts: Like, I'm here to sort things out. Yeah, you're OK, Greg? They've already been sorted out. And back he jogged to the chair. It was an incredible cameo in what was a fantastic, fantastic men's tournament in India. I really did enjoy it and echo Matt's thoughts and feelings about kind of feeling pretty buoyed by men's tennis at the moment in a way that I haven't, I've been at moments, but in a kind of big picture way that I haven't for quite a while. The La Cuisinade, that fun, came to an end in the final. Vachero and Rindeknesh, the cousins, beaten in the final 7-6-6-3 by Manuel Guinard and Guido Andreozzi.

1:06:02Matt Roberts: and there was also a mixed doubles exhibition. Unclear how this mixed doubles exhibition fitted in with the Eisenhower Cup, the mixed doubles event that had already been won by Taylor Fritz and Elena Rabakina. But Flavio Caballi and Belinda Bencic also won a mixed doubles title that doesn't mean anything in Indian Wells. I thought my scores app had broken.

1:06:26Catherine Whitaker: I was looking at it and it was like, Benkšić and Cabali are playing against each other, with each other. What is going on here? With each other. Turns out there was this mixed doubles exhibition. It happened last year. It passed me by.

1:06:40Matt Roberts: They won a lot of money.

1:06:42Catherine Whitaker: They won a lot, yeah.

1:06:44Matt Roberts: A lot of money. Flavio Cabali lost a long time ago in the singles. He must have hung around for well over a week. I mean, I do quite like it. I mean, I suppose for 360 grand you would. I do quite like it as an idea.

1:06:58Catherine Whitaker: We talk about these two-week Masters 1000 events and there's a lot of dead time. And you're putting on a mixed doubles exhibition, which, you know, if you put that money in it, you are going to get players playing and playing hard. There's also the Phoenix Challenger, isn't there, that takes place in the second week of Indian Wells, which gets a good field. It felt like there was enough still happening kind of in tennis this week, even in the second week of a Masters 1000, that players had playing opportunities and earning opportunities. Yeah, I didn't watch any of it, but I'm glad it happened.

1:07:34Matt Roberts: God, you're in a far better, sunnier mood than the last pod, the last Monday pod we did after Fulham's FA Cup exit. You're positive about everything, apart from my adjoins. Sorry, Charlie, go ahead. no I do like the idea that they were like oh I mixed up we did a mixed doubles pre-thing and then the US Open have kind of you know one-upped us with that how do we get them back it's like two mixed doubles tournaments it's like that's it that's that's the special source

1:08:14Matt Roberts: sorry Charlie go ahead I was going to make a silly point about Flavio Caballi having a incredible Hulk tattoo and being unable to lift up the mixed doubles trophy. That was a chef's kiss moment. Please do make a serious point. No, just one last thing on the ATP point. I think for me and for most, well, I can't speak for everyone, for me, it's like it's not necessarily that it's Cine Alcaraz playing every final. Like that in itself, obviously there are issues there. But the main thing was this sense that it was just such a cakewalk to get to that point. whereas now it feels a bit win-win because if they do get to another final play each other then a we haven't had loads just recently but also it will feel like they've really had to work to get there because now there are these challenges so i think that really that's the key for me that sets it up really nicely that it's like you know that it's fine to have like two dominant players just don't make it feel like the rest of the tournament is kind of a formality until we get this point until we get to this point yeah that's such a good point any other reflections from your and your miles debut charlie before we move on to look ahead to to miami well i mean linked to this point of the re-emergence of the kind of challenges in the atp challenges in the atp tour three of the people i really enjoyed speaking to like got to do one-on-ones with and watching were draper fonseca and Feast.

1:09:40So it's like, you know, that did feel like quite, all of them quite interesting stories in their own way. All players who it felt like had really positive weeks in slightly different ways. Fonseca especially almost. I mean, Draper and Feast, yes, because the injuries, but, you know, I feel like there were probably less concerns, but, you know, people were pretty high on their games. Whereas Fonseca, I feel, and I think Matt made a really good point that there was a bit of an overcorrection with you know he got so hyped and then it felt like people were really trying to knock him and it's a bit strange um and i just think that cinema match was a reminder of like yeah this is why there's the hype like his top level is so so high and i really enjoyed watching that match it did feel like one of those matches where you would remember in a few years you know people will talk about you remember the first time Fonseca played one of Sinner or Alcaraz like it felt quite special um and so yeah I really enjoyed that um so yeah so I mean it's always great being there because you actually get to you know you get to talk to the players more and kind of see them up close how they operate how they seem to be feeling about their game and themselves so yeah I really enjoyed that aspect of it and just one

1:10:55Catherine Whitaker: final thing for me on on sort of Indian Wells and I know Charlie's done a lot of reporting on you know the players who were caught in dubai and had to then get to indian wells like kind of again remarkable that medvedev had the had the week that he did yeah tournament that he did at indian wells going yeah going from dubai to indian wells okay the form carried on but like you know we heard about the kind of crazy trip that he had to make just to get to indian wells It was like, yeah, just kind of the wider story there, I think, was like, again, really impressive from Medvedev.

1:11:33Matt Roberts: Yeah, absolutely. OK, someone in the chat is telling us that Rapture is imminent. So that's it for part two. We'll be back in part three to urgently look ahead to Miami. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the 14500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com.

1:12:23Hi, all.

1:12:24Catherine Whitaker: This is Kim and Penn Holderness from Lifeline. Summer is here, which means it's officially travel season. And when you're out there making plans, you need somewhere reliable to stay. That's why Best Western is such a solid option. This summer, get 1 ,000 bonus points and a chance to win 250 ,000 bonus points. So wherever you're headed, make it count with this limited time offer. Life's a trip. Make the most of it at bestwestern.com. No additional purchase necessary for sweeps. See bonus points, T's and C's and Sweeps rules for details and visit bestwestern.com for complete terms and conditions.

1:12:58Matt Roberts: And this is part three of today's tennis podcast. We've got Miami to look ahead to. Irina Sabalenka and Jakub Mensik are the defending champions. Matt, there was a draw. I didn't even know there had been a draw. Mark's out of 10 for this draw.

1:13:19Catherine Whitaker: Oh, negative numbers out of 10. This was so bad. I always get annoyed with the Miami draw because they do it, they do the women's draw and then they do the men's and they do the women's draw and it drops during the Indian Wells final and they're using last week's rankings. So you've got a situation in the women's draw where like all of the informed players, the top four in the race, are all in the same half. Sabalenka, Rabakina, Pagula and Svitolina whereas the men wait a day and do the draw once the new rankings are fresh and that just seems to make so much more sense to me I think there was meant to be a draw ceremony for the women but it was cancelled because of rain and then the men's draw was meant to come out today at five o 'clock UK time and I didn't see it for like another two hours so just terrible draw situation from Miami do better but Charlie mentioned having just watched the first Fonseca-Sinner match we are Fabian Marajan away from the first Fonseca-Alcaraz so that's pretty fun

1:14:34Matt Roberts: Yeah, the women's draw in Miami we have Sabalenka-Robachner in the same half with Pagoulos, Vitalina Keys, Jung Chinwen, Naomi Osaka and Jasmine Paolini all in that top half. And then we have Svjantek, Goff, Anisimova, Andreeva, Mboko and Mukhova in the bottom half. And first rounds include Fran Jones against Venus Williams. Jennifer Brady, remember her? David remembers her, against Sloane Stephens. Hayley Baptiste against Tatiana Maria. Janice Chen against Yulia Putin-Sever. I love seeing the matches that Matt decides to pick out from a draw. Zeynep Sonmez against Beatriz Haddad-Meyer. David, rather.

1:15:19Matt Roberts: Who needs a good tournament in Miami on the women's side? I do think it would be very helpful if Igui Svantec had a good one, personally. I mean the thing is the way it ended felt negative and yet it wasn't the worst run in the world in Indian Wells but it just didn't feel great at the end and I suppose no loss does but some feel worse than others I feel like she could do with a really good week but I'm not that confident for her that she'll get it

1:15:59Catherine Whitaker: That's kind of the way the draw has played out right As I said, you've got the top half, Sabalenka, Rabakina, Pugula, Svitolina, you kind of big, big seeds there, all had really good starts to the season. I think your big seeds in the bottom half, Shviontek, Goff, Anisimova and Draver, you're kind of looking at all of them and thinking, you know, it's not panic stations by any means, but like could do with a run. It'd be nice if they sort of really got some form together in Miami, I think.

1:16:30Matt Roberts: be reassuring to see Coco Goff look fully fit as well, given how Indian Wells ended for her. So that's going to be interesting. Yeah, Bianca Andreescu won a round one qualifying match today. Something to celebrate. Not for Susan Lammond's fans, but there we go. Can't win them all. The ATP draw in Miami. As we said, biggest headline is that Alcoraz good face Fonseca in his first match. Eyes on Fabian Marujan in round one. So we have Alcoraz, Kaspar Rude, Keren Hashanov, Lorenzo Muzetti, Flavio Caboli, Jack Draper, Taylor Fritz, Alex de Minot, Artifice and Alexander Bublik all in the top half. And in the bottom half, we have Ben Shelton, Francisco Sarindolo, Daniel Medvedev, Alejandro Davidovic, Fikini, Lerner Tien, Alexander Zverev, Felix Orgeliasim, Defending champion Jakub Menchik, Rublev and Yannick Sin are all in that bottom half.

1:17:29Matt Roberts: Novak Djokovic has withdrawn. The men's event gets underway on Wednesday, although there's been a lot of rain around. The forecast is for there to continue to be a lot of rain around. Matt, who on the men's side could do with having a good fortnight in Miami?

1:17:52Catherine Whitaker: me it's quite it's quite interesting isn't it because we've talked about so many players who've you know did well in Indian Wells and have had a good start to the season I also still think there's a lot of players who didn't do so well in Indian Wells and would now like to make it up in Miami I'm sort of thinking about like Taylor Fritz and Ben Shelton Shelton was obviously ill Muzzetti coming back from the injuries got a got a couple more weeks of training under his belt De Menor went out early in Indian Wells. Kind of like the latter end of the top 10, those guys, Diminor, Mazzetti, Fritz, Shelton.

1:18:25Catherine Whitaker: I think those ones, who weren't really a factor at Indian Wells, are going to want to be factors in the last sort of big hardcore event before we turn to the clay. So those are sort of some of the guys that I'm looking at, as well as obviously the obvious ones.

1:18:42Matt Roberts: Charlie, what can we look out for in the Athletic? you're handing the relay baton over to Matt Futterman. He is already in Miami, is he? En route, perhaps? If not there already, I think it will be pretty soon. Or at least the plan, that's the plan. Yeah, I mean, it's been a busy time as well. I mean, that's the other thing as well about, you know, the great thing about going to these events is you can meet up with contacts and things like that. And, you know, it's a great place for that, you know for the reporting side of things and yeah last week with the atp story we did and then all the stuff in the middle east i mean it's been a really newsy time even outside of you know just the matches that are being played um and i think you know it can take a while before a tournament like this before the actual tennis of it really grabs people but this one really did actually um you know some tournaments can especially these 12-day masters can sort of we've spoken about a million times they can drag this one really didn't um so i imagine miami they'll hope for more of the same i mean the weather is a big thing and weather stories always uh seem to seem to do well um i guess there's you know that has wide appeal doesn't it um so i think that could be a kind of defining storyline for for the early days there and then on the court i mean yeah coco goff is absolutely a name that jumps out to me as someone who could really do with a good week week um or two um and fritz on the men's a bit i mean i did find i did find it again quite a tough scene with him at the moment and you know it just feels like he's doing all he can to keep his head above water but that you know the fitness concerns he has um yeah i i you do just worry about him a bit.

1:20:37Matt Roberts: Spare a thought from Matt Futterman, esteemed sports writer with decades of experience going all the way to Miami to write about the weather. Sounds pretty tough, but we'll be reading Matt. It won't, as will many other people, apparently there's great appetite for articles about the weather. We will be back with our next podcast on Monday the 23rd. Matt I think one of Matt's great skills is he's able to make any topic kind of interesting like he has big takes on absolutely everything like the stuff he and I like yeah I remember I think I said to him something about my I had to be in to do a call because my fridge was being repaired or something like that he comes back to me with all these takes about American fridges and things like this you know there is no topic about which he doesn't have interesting views and i think i would imagine weather is 100 in that absolutely i bet he has something to say about the weather in miami that would really surprise me yeah yeah matt's takes are always surprising yeah we'll be back with our next pod on monday uh next monday the 23rd of march to talk about the first few days of Miami.

1:21:52Matt Roberts: Also that day, we'll be celebrating the second birthday of the Barge. And just like we did last year, we'll be celebrating by doing an Ask Me Anything But Tennis live at 7pm on the Barge. That'll be with me, David, Matt and Hannah and Vicky. We're really excited about it. Hannah joined us for this last year. Vicky's going to join us as well this year um yeah it's it's it was so much fun um and we're going to be doing the same again so that will be uh 7 p.m uh next monday and we'll have our next podcast next monday as well we have not one but two mascots for this episode i i scrolled down earlier on i caught a glimpse of them i found it very distracting uh i've been waiting for this moment on the pod for a while Well, this is Lola and Frankie.

1:22:49Matt Roberts: They are owned by Sarah H and they are sublime. Lola and Frankie are our two gorgeous dogs, says Sarah, from Sydney's inner west and a completely inseparable bonded pair. We bought Frankie home when Lola was just nine months old and she was promoted to big sister and emotional support mum well before she'd finished her own puppy years. Frankie is a four-year-old mini-dachshund obsessed with balls and swimming, while five-year-old Lola is a chiweenie. For those not on YouTube, can't see the enormous grin on my face as I said that. A chiweenie is part chihuahua, part mini-dachshund, who prefers to stay dry and supervise from a safe distance.

1:23:40Matt Roberts: their classic covid dogs love their daily walks and listen to the tennis podcast with us and bring endless joy and a lot of personality to our everyday life they are astonishing sarah thank you so much for lola and frankie as a fellow owner of a covid dog it's the best it's the best impulse decision i ever made and i hope you feel the same uh i can't stop looking at them. They are absolutely wonderful. We of course have our mascots Bodie, Maisie and Roger. We've received correspondence from Maisie today wearing a St Patrick's Day bandana. Just brilliant work. Loving it. Great work Tom. That's the sort of stuff we like to receive.

1:24:25Matt Roberts: Thank you Tom. We have our top folks and executive producers Greg, Chris and Jeff and we have some shout outs from Matt.

1:24:33Catherine Whitaker: And we start with Josephine Mabem from Lausanne, Switzerland.

1:24:41Matt Roberts: Hello, Josephine.

1:24:43Catherine Whitaker: Hi, Josephine. Josephine says that her favourite players include Lina, Petra Kvitova and Sam Stoza. So hopefully has also...

1:24:52Matt Roberts: Oh, there's a connoisseur.

1:24:53Catherine Whitaker: Hopefully also found some current players to enjoy. It's tough when your faves

1:25:01Matt Roberts: retire isn't it you know you've got to find somebody else i am yeah i was sat next to sam sam stoser uh out on the 1573 arena in australia this year watching victorian boco behind the men in the viking hats oh yeah so sam stoser also experienced the men in the viking fats who were Arsenal fans unfortunately Charlie no surprise though was she as rattled as you were by it Catherine no and that rattled me that she wasn't as rattled I shouldn't be alone I shouldn't be having to have this experience alone we should all be experiencing rage right now come with me Sam she was focused on Emerson Jones who was getting her clock cleaned thank you Josephine someone's saying in the chat Josephine Crookshank I'll have to take that because I don't have a Josephine myself there we go thank you Sylvan in the chat for Josephine Crookshank could just be a friend of Sylvan's who knows but we've got a Josephine

1:26:13Catherine Whitaker: we also have Francis Wynne from Marlborough

1:26:19Matt Roberts: hello Francis

1:26:21Catherine Whitaker: Francis says please can I dedicate this shout out to my husband Gabe who heroically and uncomplainingly sits through thousands of unsolicited tennis takes and match recups from me, despite only having a passing interest in the sport. He's the best. Thank you guys for the great pods.

1:26:42Matt Roberts: That is love. You can and you have dedicated your shout out to Gabe Francis. And that is absolutely lovely. Is it a Francis with an I or an E?

1:26:54Catherine Whitaker: It is an E, like Tiafoe.

1:26:59Matt Roberts: Like Tiafoe. And Gabe? Gabe Diallo. I can sort of imagine his mates might call him that. Yes, Charlie, we will take that. Much like Josephine Cruikshank, I will take that.

1:27:13Catherine Whitaker: I know there's a reason we've got Charlie on. And finally, we have Nina, who says, Tennis namesake references Nina Stojanovic and Nina Whittaker.

1:27:29Matt Roberts: love that oh um yet absolutely no notes they are the big two on the nina well with you nina

1:27:37Catherine Whitaker: you're the big three um nina what do we know about nina is from the netherlands but lives in california and nina says i'd like to shout out two friends beatrice who introduced me to the tennis podcast several years ago and cory with whom i exchange hundreds of messages about all

1:27:55Matt Roberts: things tennis big perfection hello beatrice hello cory hello nina hello gabe hello francis hello josephine thank you all for your support of the tennis podcast this has been such a fun show thank you charlie for uh for joining us tonight i've um i've really enjoyed it it's been it's been brilliant so thank you thanks for all your work and we love being part of the athletic podcast network we will be back on monday thank you all for watching thanks for listening if you enjoyed charlie's mustache do hit that like and subscribe button on youtube we'll speak to you monday goodbye

1:28:41this episode is sponsored by michael's your destination for all things birthday parties We just had Lucky's first birthday, and it was so great to be able to go into Michael's and get everything. Of course, I knew they had craft supplies there, but I didn't realize how expansive their party supplies were. And Michael's really is where you can go to get everything for a party, whether you're planning a kid's birthday or even an adult celebration. They've got over 4 ,500 party supplies, more than 60 different themes, and prices starting at just 99 cents. Plus, they've recently lowered prices on hundreds of items.

1:29:12We found adorable decorations, balloons, everything we needed to pull the party together without making a bunch of different shopping trips. Plus, I always have a good time going to Michael's. I love shopping there. I could just browse the aisles forever. But if you're short on time like I always seem to be, you can also get same-day delivery or buy online and pick up at the store. They even offer free helium inflation on select balloon styles, which is such a lifesaver, and it was for our party, truly. So if you've got a birthday coming up or just a celebration, remember Michael's Everything to Celebrate Anything.

1:29:46Visit Michael's in-store or shop online now. As a small business owner, you're the CEO, the marketing team, and the customer service rep all at once. I was recently talking to a shop owner who told me their worst nightmare isn't a slow day, it's the vanishing act. It's that moment you're inches away from a deadline and the Wi-Fi just disappears. We've all felt that pit in our stomach when the connection flares up right when it matters most. Your business is only as strong as your connection. AT &T Business is the reliable provider built for that exact brand of hustle, so you can stay focused on the work that builds your legacy.

1:30:23Powered by AT &T Business. Built to work. Get AT &T Business at business.att.com.