Indian Wells - Sincaraz, Sabatek finals incoming?

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1:22Matt Roberts: Well, hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast, our midweek tennis podcast updating you on all things Indian Wells. And a lot of things Indian Wells have happened in the last three days. I feel like I've got memes to last a lifetime just from the last few days of Indian Wells action. Matt Roberts, are you over Fulham's FA Cup defeat to Southampton? Is that something that's happened in the last three days?

1:54Catherine Whitaker: time has helped uh southampton drawing arsenal in the next round has helped a little bit as well uh and indian wells has helped it's taken my mind off it i feel like i've watched so much tennis over the past three or four days like really racking up the hours just six till late kind of thing here in the uk and that has been a joy actually some of the matches haven't lived up to expectations, but some of them have exceeded expectations. And there's just so many interesting names and stories in this draw. I've had a great time. Yes, is the short answer to your question. I am feeling a lot better.

2:34Matt Roberts: We don't talk about football with David anymore, but still good news about those Seahawks, David. You'll always have the Seahawks. Yeah, but I have a few shoots of optimism that are sprouting. and I feel like West Bromwich Albion are going to be okay and it's all going to start on Saturday with a win against Hull because we deserved to win last night against Southampton and I feel it's coming. David Law in optimism shocker. All is right with the world and all is right with our agenda because Matt has done the Lord's work here after my multiple catastrophes in Monday's show. Matt has laid out what days all of the remaining matches are happening.

3:19Matt Roberts: Thank you so much, Matt, for saving my professionalism. So today is Thursday. It is Thursday morning UK time as we record all the quarterfinals on both the men's and the women's side take place today. Then we have the women's semifinals on Friday, the men's semifinals on Saturday and both finals on Sunday. Matt Roberts, thank you for your service. So we're going to start with the men. And that is because we're going to start with the reason that I'm a little bit sleep deprived on today's show for the best of reasons. Because I woke up at about 2 a.m., went to the loo, thought, I'll just have a look at just I'll just check in on the tennis.

4:08Matt Roberts: or just see what's happening in Indian Wells, see whether Draper against Djokovic is living up to expectations. And of course, several hours later, I had had the time of my life watching Jack Draper beat Novak Djokovic in a deciding set tie break. I didn't see every point of it. There were definitely moments where I snoozed and then was awoken by a commentator shrieking at something absolutely thrilling that was happening. I know you two have both caught up this morning. David, this is going to be a contender, I think, at the end of the season for the tour match of the year. Yeah, it was really, really good.

4:53And it was really interesting as well, because we haven't really seen this iteration of Jack Draper against this, well, against Novak Djokovic. You know, we've seen very young Jack Draper against Djokovic. And also we have the added element of Draper coming back from this incredibly long layoff, which is hard to believe really now when we think of the time we spent with Jack Draper, a lot of time in November. And he was so bereft and so sort of frustrated and trying to be patient. And then he comes out into a match like this, this sort of cauldron. and I'm blinking at what I'm watching that he's able to play this sort of level of tennis and I think he was blinking in the floodlights out there almost pinch me.

5:45Is this really happening? Am I on a stadium court where I won this title a year ago playing the great Novak Djokovic who he is often saying is his idol, the guy he respects the most, the guy he thinks is the best and he's playing him and he's toe-to-toe. And this was proper Novak Djokovic. OK, maybe this isn't Grand Slam Novak Djokovic, because one of the great balancing acts that Djokovic is having to pull off these days is he doesn't want to play very often. And that means that when he comes to tournaments like this, there's a freshness and a sheen and excitement about him. But he's also not got match toughness and kind of that sort of energy level that you can last.

6:28and that's what Draper was putting him under in this match. He beat him in a kind of way that Alcraz beat Djokovic in the Australian Open final. Djokovic was the better player in the first set. He was hitting so cleanly and you can tell with Djokovic and his body language which version you're getting and he came out ready and excited and determined to hit cleanly and hurt early. and Draper just kept him out there long enough and eventually took his legs. I think that that's what won him the match and I don't think either of them really leave this tournament no matter what now. As long as Jack Draper doesn't get injured again, I think both of them will leave this tournament feeling that it was quite a good experience.

7:17It was a great match.

7:19Matt Roberts: Yeah, we met post-Puke Djokovic in that deciding set or I met him at about three o 'clock in the morning. It was a very surreal time. He was clutching at his sternum, Djokovic. Yeah, I agree with you. I think he took his legs in the end. But there were a number of moments in this match where I didn't think that Jack Draper's competitive teeth would be sharp enough at this stage of his comeback. I think he was serving 3-4 juice in the second set, having lost the first. And I thought, hmm, you know, it might be a bit early for him to withstand the storm of pressure moments like this against the greatest male player of all time down the other end.

8:16Matt Roberts: A deciding set tiebreak, you know, losing the break that he had in the deciding set, getting pegged back and ending up in that deciding set tiebreak. You know, the sharpness in the pressure moments is what usually takes longest to come back. And what you kind of can't cheat on a comeback is it's what you can't replicate on the practice court. You can't replicate it at the National Tennis Centre down the road in Rahampton. I was pretty blown away, Matt, by how Jack Draper handled those moments in particular.

8:51Catherine Whitaker: yeah and therefore you feel like this match is just going to do him the world of good as well because you know even even watching him the round before against sarundalo i think we all watched that first set more like wow jack draper is looking good he's looking dangerous again with his with his ball striking and then he won it in two sets but he said afterwards that he wasn't happy with the way that he played in the in the second set and i was kind of thinking that is the struggle of coming back from injury right because you can tell yourself all the time you've got to keep your expectations in check and you've got to take the little wins along the way and yet he's got these competitive juices and he knows where he was a year ago and he's a little bit disappointed in his level that he's not quite there again and that balancing act I think is really difficult for players on on their comeback from a long injury like this and yet to get this moment to fight through so many tight moments against Novak Djokovic on that stage I as I said I just think that is going to do wonders for his confidence it might be difficult today coming back the next day against Medvedev he hasn't done that before like recently having to come back after a very long match and play again the next day and Medvedev's looking good but you can still leave this tournament with a big win even if he loses to Medvedev today I think Jack Draper

10:13Matt Roberts: How is that a thing? It's a flipping two week long event and you still got players coming back from a marathon three setter less than 24 hours later having to play again. Like there is enough time in this event that that shouldn't have to happen. But there we go. Yeah, at least Medvedev's in the same boat, but obviously having played a very different type of match. And I just wanted to shout out the rally,

10:41Catherine Whitaker: You know, the one that is going viral on the internet. Because as David said, I think that was a perfect encapsulation of the way Jack Draper played this match to try and sap the energy out of Novak Djokovic. He hit, I think, three drop shots in that one rally. He just made Djokovic come forward and back, forward and back. And it was also an encapsulation of why I think this tournament will also end up as kind of a win for Novak Djokovic. because people will remember that rally and they'll be like, remember the tennis that Nermat Djokovic was playing when he was pushing 39 years old and the movement that he was displaying?

11:19Catherine Whitaker: It's one of those things that, you know, he said it as well, didn't he? He sort of, he won that battle, but it sapped his energy. It gave him a lull for the next few moments and he ended up losing serve a bit later in the set. He thinks it sort of cost him in the match, that rally Djokovic, but it will be the sort of rally that will be added on to his highlights package at the end of his career and sort of add to his legend in that way. And, you know, I think for him, that's part of why he's still going at Indian Wells and showing that he can do that against these young guys. And, yeah, it was a match where Djokovic showed slightly lacking in clutchness, actually, in that final set tie break.

12:01Catherine Whitaker: You know, he let it slip. But he still displayed a lot of his qualities and what he can still do. I was super impressed. It was so fun, that match.

12:12Matt Roberts: Medvedev next for Draper. He's in some form, David. It's Daniel Medvedev. He's fantastic at the moment, Medvedev. This is a real surprise to me when I think back to what we saw in Australia, how stodgy he looked in Australia. He was good in Brisbane, wasn't he? He won the title. but what we saw in Australia I was like okay well this is the bloke from last year and I just, the real guy is gone and I don't know whether we can see this this may just be a good period but he was brilliant last week when he won the title in Dubai and I think that obviously got overtaken by world events and the fact that the final didn't happen but they had the presentation on court when the war is just starting but he's come out here and he's just dismissing people with so little trouble and and this is a win against Alex Mickelson who he has beaten every time but I saw Mickelson beat Taylor Fritz the other night and I realized Fritz is not going through the best of times but Fritz could just couldn't hit winners he just couldn't get the ball by him Medvedev's hitting winners easily at the moment and I mean the the I think the thing is I tend to think of Medvedev as a guy who's got a certain game and that's that and that it doesn't have great punch to it as such he's either metronomic and he wins or he doesn't and it a lot depends on the serve then he he was reminding us with the performances and with the way he went about it that actually if he's if he's confident he's an aggressive player and that's what he was he was super aggressive and he's he's like losing handfuls of games in matches at the moment um i i i do suspect this might be a step too far for draper tonight to rebound 24 hours later and he's gonna i think he's gonna have to hit big and he's probably gonna have to hit a load of drop shots just to stop himself from getting in medvedev type rallies but uh this version of medvedev is is a problem feels like we've come a long way with

14:23Catherine Whitaker: Medford ever Indian Wells. You know, it wasn't that long ago he was talking about, oh no, this isn't a hard court. I'm a hard court specialist. I know what a hard court is. And now he's like, oh, it's really fast court and I'm enjoying it and it's suiting me. And then his face absolutely lit up when he got asked to talk about the balls in the press conference.

14:40Matt Roberts: Well, I would like to say, I think he's bang right about the balls. They played totally differently after two games, I'd say. and you can see they do look different. I really think he's bang right about the balls.

14:58Catherine Whitaker: But what I enjoyed most was his comment when he said, well, I explained very well the other week about the head balls and how they're not round. He said, I don't love these balls either, but they are better than the other ones. It's just, that's what you want from Medvedev. It's kind of like you can tell, like David's saying, you can tell early what form Djokovic is in. And by the way, like the ball was pinging off his forehand. You can kind of tell with Medvedev by his comments and his demeanor and his mood generally, kind of what tennis you're going to get and whether he's going to spiral and melt down.

15:35Catherine Whitaker: But he's really looking sharp this week. And it's good to see, actually.

15:41Matt Roberts: Just to round out the Novak Djokovic 2026 Indian Wells story, some hindrance drama. Matt, I'm telling you, it's on the rise, potentially a steep rise. He was playing doubles this week with Stefanos Tsitsipas and they ended up playing La Cuisinade, Rindeknesh and Vachero. Tell us all about the hindrance drama, Matt. We should have a new just official segment, Matt's hindrance drama.

16:16Catherine Whitaker: yeah it was this uh rally that unfolded and i think it was sitzapas who was about to hit a smash and rindekanesh down the other end was was waving his racket around as though to try and distract him and put him off you know like like fans behind the goal when when someone's taking a penalty and djokovic spotted this and immediately called it out and said that he wanted the video review. I don't think the umpire had seen it. And the umpire gave a slightly sort of sassy announcement to the crowd. He said, I'm going to have a look at the video and see if Rindiknesh has somehow distracted Sikha Vass and Djokovic.

16:56Catherine Whitaker: And the little look on Rindiknesh's face, like he knew he'd been caught in the act by Djokovic. It was hilarious. And I think the umpire was right. I think that was hindrance. I think, you know, I think he was definitely trying to distract him.

17:10Matt Roberts: I thought it was really embarrassing from Rindiknesh. He has, I think he's got a bit of a rep, Rinder Kness. I don't think he's someone that gets the benefit of the doubt necessarily. Yeah, I thought it was pretty dastardly. He really, yeah, he really got found out.

17:27Catherine Whitaker: But they did end up winning the Cousins and then they beat, I think they beat Rublev and Hakchanov maybe and are now into the semis.

17:35Matt Roberts: Yeah, yeah, it's a good story, isn't it? And thank you, Novak Djokovic, for all that you've brought to Indian Wells 2026. hindrance drama included. Let's talk about Carlos Alcaraz. Which one of you, which one of you wants to try and put into words the tennis that we saw from Carlos Alcaraz against poor old Caspar Rude yesterday? 6-1, 7-6, setting up a quarterfinal against Cameron Norrie. Good luck, Cam, is what I have to say about that, David.

18:13Catherine Whitaker: I thought you were going to say good luck David trying to put into words.

18:16Matt Roberts: Well, yeah, good luck to you both. Well, I mean, actually, I think the first thing to say is well done, Kaspar Rude, for getting that second set to 7-6. Because what we saw for the first set was a joke from Alcaraz. I mean, we've got to the point where I'm talking about Medvedev's confidence. that I don't think I've ever seen Alcraz look as in control of a tennis ball as he is at the moment. It's not just the power. It's not just the speed around the court. It's not just the athleticism, the crazy gets and the touch and the soft hands and all the things that we rightly get very excited about with Carlos Alcraz, along with the fact that he's also a serial champion.

19:02He's doing it all at the same time, and he's doing it seemingly on requirement. You know, it's turn the tap on and it's there. And he just looks awesome at the moment. I don't think I've ever seen him look more at ease with his game and certain of what's going to come off his racket. And, I mean, he does make these emphatic straight sets wins fun, you know. and Rude is just sometimes just laughing at what he's up against. And like I say, bloody good effort to not just disintegrate. I mean, if you remember that match he played against Sinner last year when it was a similarly kind of one-sided match, but the scoreline was much tougher on Rude that day.

19:54Well, this time he managed to make a scrap of that second. And yet it never felt remotely in doubt. I mean you're quite right of course good luck Cam Norrie because I think if Alkraut plays his best tennis it's good night but he has beaten him a couple of times has Norrie including last year in Paris so he is playing some seriously good ball himself Norrie but if you're talking about the two players playing well at the same time then one of them is going to win in straight sets and that bloke's Carlos Alkraut

20:28Catherine Whitaker: yeah can i shout out the shot that alcares hit in this match which was he'd hit a drop shot rude chased it down and alcares had stayed back on the baseline and rude chased it down and hit it quite deep and what alcares did in that moment i've watched it over 10 times i think and i just cannot believe it every time he hits a it's a drive volley lob from the baseline i've never seen anyone do that before like the the cross-court drive volley you know conventional drive volley was on and yet he came up with a shot without any hesitation it just seemed natural to him to do something that i've never seen anyone else do before it was staggeringly good and he's got the control on the ball that David's describing that he he hit it so high the lob went so high and yet just landed and arced perfectly dipping so Rude had no chance it was a joke what he was doing particularly in the first set injections of pace lobs drop shots angled volleys stop volleys it was like he could do whatever he wanted with the tennis ball I mean and then he he turned it on again in the second set tie break just to the same extreme oh it was a joy to watch he um he

21:51Matt Roberts: played a thriller against arthur rindikinesh in the previous round incredible week for rindikinesh david into the uh the double semi-final with his cousin and compared to roger federer by carlos Alcaraz. Incredible, credible, Arthur Rindignesh. Not incredible. He was fantastic in that match. I mean, yeah, basically Alcaraz pulling out the old Serena Williams line. They always do this against me. They kind of have been doing it against him, though. Yeah, I mean, I do think players are aware that they're up against somebody who can just do things that nobody else can and the crowd go with it and I think players get a little bit excited themselves and realize well my normal game's not going to cut it let's just go for broke um and they get it they get a little bit influenced by what's going on down the other end I mean Rindikinesh has played Alkraaz hard before he's taken him to multiple sets before he's got a game that can cause Alcraz problems because the serve is big, the touch is good, he goes for his shots, gets him a bit off balance.

23:06And, you know, he was a set-up, he was a break-up here. This was tense for a bit for Alcraz. I did wonder whether he, you know, it might be just one of those matches that he doesn't pull the rabbit out of the hat in. Increasingly, he's not needed to do that. But at the same time, the moment he was back on level terms in the second set, it was over. And that's one of the big differences now. I don't feel like there are multiple chapters still to come in a match like that. It's once the tide has turned, that's it, it's turned.

23:41Catherine Whitaker: I think it's also something to do with, I don't know, like the style Alcarez plays. I think opponents feel like they've got a chance against him because he doesn't sort of strangle you in a way that like a Djokovic at his peak would do or a Nadal at his peak. Even Sinner, you know, like the sort of relentless hitting deep and putting you side to side. He ends up in a lot of fun rallies and shot-making rallies and the opponents feel like they're pulling off great things. It's just Alcovaz with his foot speed and his hand skills is going to get there and do something that no one else can do to it.

24:19Catherine Whitaker: So I don't know. There's something in that, I think, that Alcres is right there in terms of people are sort of peaking against them. But I don't know. I think it's to his benefit because I think that match against Rindeknesh really sharpened him up. And by the third set, he was playing kind of how he started the rude match. Like it was so good. And now he's just in that form and he can keep it going better than he used to be able to do in tournaments.

24:50Matt Roberts: So Alcaraz or Norrie to face the winner of Draper and Medvedev. That's the top half of the men's draw. Bottom half of the men's draw. We've got Artifis against Alexander Zverev, the winner of that, to face the winner. of Yannick Sinner against Lerner Tien, a match that I am very excited about. We should probably talk about Sinner's victory over Joel Fonseca, 7-6, 7-6, an absolutely electrifying match. I know you both watched lots of this. Unfortunately, it was happening in the middle of the night, our time. I kept seeing the stat going round. And look, I take all of these player rating things with a little bit of a pinch of salt.

25:42Matt Roberts: But apparently Joel Fonseca scored the highest player rating for a player that ended up losing the match that the player rating system has ever seen. Now make of that what you will. Take all the salt you would like to take with that. but that stat is also reflective of what we saw in that match David which was an awesome Joel Fonseca that had to bring out the best in Yannick Sinner in order for Sinner to win it. Yeah it was really good this I don't know how much we will end up reading into it down the line in terms of progression for Fonseca but it's the first time I've watched a full match of his for a while especially against a big a top player and and he struck me at the start of it a little bit like how Yannick Sinner struck me when we were in Indian Wells three years ago in person when which is when I started just referencing Sinner's height every 10 minutes and and here Fonseca stood at the net for the photo with Sinner and I looked at him and thought wow he's grown a bit you know He doesn't look like he did a year ago.

26:58He looks like a man. He looks like he's kind of just grown into his body. He's filled out a bit. He's taller. He's got coat-hanger shoulders. He just looks like he's ready physically a bit more here to take on a guy who's suddenly not taller than him. Not much anyway, three centimetres between them. And the way he played, we touched on it the other day. He's got the combinations right now, the balance right between the all-out power but he but but there's there's there's a point behind it it's not just thrashing at the ball which i do think he got into doing a little bit when he was getting on the back foot in matches he would suddenly just be hitting out and and i thought well this isn't really going anywhere for you because you're missing too many well he got himself to mini break up in both tiebreak sets in to get into the tiebreak he's he's leading the first set tie break 6-3 and he didn't win the set you know that was a that there's there are some lessons in there for Fonseca I think about what guys like Sinner are able to do to just keep you keep you close and then take over and then he led the second set tie break as well and and that was good going I thought from from Fonseca because Sinner did actually hold serve for the match and Fonseca broke back to take it into that tie break and I thought real strides being shown by Fonseca here and yet Sinner with the answers it felt like the balance of where these two are in their career and what the potential is for the future that scoreline 7-6-7-6 just kind of told you and I think that this is a this is another good news match for both players.

28:44Matt Roberts: Is he playing with a bit more shape on the forehand, Matt, Yannick Sinner, to your eye, in a kind of, you know, preparing for the clay court season kind of a way?

28:57Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, possibly. I think that would be fair to say. I think what struck me in this match was that you could see that Sinner is capable of being the absorber. You know, like, so much of the time I think of Sinner is likely going to be the biggest hitter on the court off both wings because, you know, he's so good at that. But actually, Fonseca's got a ball speed that is higher than Sinners. I mean, there was an extraordinary stat that flashed up on the coverage that Fonseca's average on the forehand is 11 miles per hour higher than the rest of the top 50 on the ATP Tour. Well, certainly it was in that first set he was averaging 90 miles an hour, which is 11 miles an hour more than the rest of the top 50.

29:47Catherine Whitaker: That's absurd. That is absolutely freakish. And yet what Sinner was able to do was absorb that pace. I felt really well. And that's where I think Sinner is still quite a bit ahead of Fonseca with his movement and his leg strength and the ability to move side to side. And I think some of that probably does come out a little bit as more shape on the ball rather than just like slashing at it. he also had his I'm going to use the word again he was clutch again sinner you know like that that was the defining feature of his match against Djokovic at the Australian Open how that had gone and I know the pressure's different playing in a Grand Sam semifinal against Djokovic but in this one even before he fell the three set points down in the tie break he played a lovely half volley to not fall four set points down and he he brought his level up when Fonseca had those set points.

30:42Catherine Whitaker: So that was all really, really good signs from Sinner. And yet I did feel like it was a kind of proof of concept match for Fonseca, right? Like he does have the weapons and hitting the ball that hard with that control and adding in a bit of variety is going to hurt top players. And Sinner had to be somewhere close to his best to be able to live with it. And I always take Indian Wells a little bit of a pinch of salt anyway because of the conditions. And I think particularly at night, I think it was when it's deader and slower. I think it was easier for Fonseca to control the ball. You know, like I've heard Andy Roddick talk about Indian Wells in the day and it's like a bouncy ball and the ball is just bouncing all over the place.

31:26Catherine Whitaker: And I think at night it just allowed Fonseca to control it a little bit more. But I was, again, as David said, impressed with both like coming out of that match and just super fun to see them. meet for the first time. And now we have an image of what that matchup looks like. And yeah, it was great.

31:47Matt Roberts: Can Tien, Sina, be fun? Tien Alejandro Davidovich for Kina was fun. Let me tell you, that was another one I stuck on in the middle of the night and cost me a bit of sleep. Yeah, it was, yeah, fun. Fun is the best possible word to describe. Certainly the latter stages of that match and went to a deciding set tie break, which obviously should feel like absolute peak jeopardy in tennis. And yet it felt like the opposite of that, because by that point, Alejandro Davidovich-Vikina had had match points. And Alejandro Davidovich-Vikina, unfortunately, is becoming the losing from match point up guy. I just had this very strong feeling in the pit of my stomach that this is going to be another one.

32:39And lo and behold, lo and behold, it was.

32:42Matt Roberts: So Tien, Sinner, can that be fun?

32:45Catherine Whitaker: I remember them playing towards the end of last year and it was quite one-sided for Sinner, but I did feel like a big difference was the serve, right? It's not a new point, but I do think Tien's got a different approach on the serve this year. He's trying to get more out of it, okay? He's making some more double faults. But he's trying to up his win percentage on first serve, up his ace percentage. And I do think that's the right play. It's high risk. It might not come off, but I think it's the right play. And I do remember thinking from the baseline, Tien can hang with pretty much everyone. He's so good at redirecting the ball.

33:26Catherine Whitaker: And what is interesting to me now, I feel like the ATP is having a real moment. like I feel like we really were a bit down on the state of the ATP last year but actually Feast and Draper coming back we're going to talk more about Feast but them coming back in the fold and being at this level so quickly has invigorated everything I think plus you've got Tien you've got Fonseca doing showing what he did Mensik beat Sinner a couple of weeks ago and now Tien gets a shot at him like it just feels like there's a little bit of momentum behind the pack you know like three is still very much up for grabs but it's finally feeling like this guy's gunning for it rather than oh it's just going to be no at jokovic do you know what i mean like i i just feel like in this last month or so there's been there's been a nice shift from some of the other guys on the atp tour and we might still end up with a cinealca as final and that will be absolutely fine by me because we've had fun along the way and that's kind of that's kind of what i'm looking for in these tournaments sustained fun and I just just feel like there's a group now who are bringing it and they're young and they're hungry and they've got interesting games yeah I've really been quite high on the ATP in the last few weeks or so.

34:44Matt Roberts: And they're players that haven't accumulated sort of soul-destroying baggage against Alcaraz and Sinner yet in the way that you know your sitzer passes have and yuzverevs have like they they could they very well could do over the course of the next couple of years but at the moment it feels like they do step onto the court to face those guys feeling like oh yeah back myself here i could i could have a go at this um yeah i agree it's amazing how quickly things can change can't it and i think we were we didn't we wanted to sort of be cautious about how hyped we were for these feasts and draper comebacks because you know to to um to protect ourselves from hurt and disappointment um but that means that we've been really pleasantly surprised by it it's yeah invigorated or reinvigorated is uh is a great way of putting it feels like we're in a good spot just now so sinner and tn the winner of that david to face the winner of Artifis against Alexander Zverev.

35:52Matt Roberts: He is so back, is Artifis. Yeah, honestly, I'm not usually the one to hold myself back about getting excited for fear of getting hurt. I'm not usually that guy. But with Artifis and Jack Draper, I am in shock that they are at this level this quickly. it is as though they have not had a 7, 8, 9 month layoff which both have had for very serious injuries they don't seem to think about those injuries when you're watching them they don't seem at least so far and I really am touching wood saying this they don't appear to be having any ill effects after these matches that they're winning and if anything, certainly Feast I think he looks a better player than when he left because he's made a couple of little technical tweaks.

36:46He certainly seems to have shortened his forehand take back. There's an interview with him by Charlie Eccleshire in The Athletic that I encourage you to go and have a read of, in which Arthur is talking about that change and just how generally his comeback is going. But, you know, he got to the final a couple of weeks ago, got smoked by Alcraz in the final in Doha. No great surprise there at all. but to come out here and win comfortably in his first couple of matches and then play Oji Aliassime in the manner that I sort of, when I think of those two players, this is what that match looks like.

37:25Oji Aliassime with a big serve and a big forehand and great movement and a backhand that is just asking to be picked on. And Fies' backhand cross-court is so superior and his inside-out forehand now is so reliable that he was just fine in that backhand of Ogieliasim, like how Paolo Berosa was fine in the forehand of Coco Gauff the other year. It was almost cruel, the way he was just picking on it, and knowing that he was going to get errors from it. And yet, you end up in a situation where he's setting a break-up, he's serving at 4-3 fees, the match is won in terms of patterns and strategy, and Ogieliasim really having no answers.

38:10And yet he breaks back, takes it into a tie-break, and leads the tie-break 5-0. Now, some of that credit for that needs to go to Ogiali Asim. He did come up with a couple of good shots to take the play away. But most of it is just the thing I've been watching Feast do for the last three years, which is just lose his concentration, lose his focus, start blaming other people or other circumstances around the court, and really being in danger of actually losing the set and then maybe losing the match. But at Love 5 Down, he gave this fantastic interview to Tennis TV afterwards where he said, I went over to my coaching team and Goran Ivanovic is not there, by the way, in America.

38:54He's going to come back for the clay court season, but he's been in regular sort of text contact with the team and with our draft of matches. but goes over to Ivan, his coach this week, and he's complaining and he's moaning and they just said, just stop complaining. Just focus on one point at a time. And he was like, he didn't want to hear it initially. And then he said, I thought to myself, maybe I will then, maybe I am complaining too much. Takes one point at a time, comes back from love five down to win the tie break by just going back to what he was doing before. and that really is what I see between these two players.

39:32I think Feast has a higher ceiling than Oji Aliassim does even though he's only ever been ranked 14 in the world so far and Oji Aliassim has been ranked very highly in the top 10. I think that's where he's going. The interesting thing is I'm still waiting and I was feeling this about Draper last night. Is this too early? You mentioned it earlier on, Matt. is this too early to sort of be able to to dig out a win against a top player at this stage in your comeback and I wonder whether although I think Feast matches up very well against Zverev in a way that Tiafoe really didn't and Tiafoe's got this 1-9 record against Zverev because he can't hang with him from the baseline Feast can and he's beaten him twice and I think him at his best will be beating Zverev but I'm not sure that he's quite there yet.

40:27You know, it's so early.

40:30Matt Roberts: Was that a prediction? I think Zverev will win this match because I think that it's just a little too early for Feese. But then I probably would have said that about Djokovic and Draper last night. So, you know, I certainly think that Feese is capable of beating Zverev and if he plays to his best level today, I think he will beat him. But I just think he'll probably have one or two many mental lapses at this stage. But Goran will get his teeth into him and that will change. OK, well, we won't go too far down the predictions road because a lot of people will be listening to this already knowing the outcome of at least some of these matches because all these quarterfinals to be played today, including the women's quarterfinals.

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43:39Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast, where once again, we have a women's draw, where it feels like we're on a collision course to a final between Iga Shontek and Irina Sabalenka. And every time, seemingly, it feels like we're on that collision course, something historically gets in the way. is that going to happen this time, David? I always get stung with this. And I always end up either writing off Jessica Pagula or Elena Rybakina. I've set you up to do exactly that. Yeah, because, look, I do believe in the Sviantec game as being overall the second best just behind Sabalenka. Now, Rebecca and her fans would very understandably question that, given some recent results.

44:37I do think in these conditions, on this sort of surface, where it's gritty and it's high-bouncing, I do think it suits Shontek down to the ground. It really takes her ball and does stuff with it that some of the other players can't really match. so look I think we are going to end up getting that final but I've certainly said that before I would say though on Svantech generally I think this has been one of the better tournaments so far for the balance that she's trying to find and the not just trying to blast her way through opponents but have a plan B or at least have different kind of tones to her game and the flight she's got on the forehand And it feels like I talked about the control that Alcraz seems to have off his strings at the moment.

45:30That's what's been there for Svantec as well. She has a bit more time, I think, maybe because of the of the surface in Indian Wells, as opposed to, say, Miami next week. But, yeah, I'd be very encouraged on her behalf. And well, Sabalenka just looks like Sabalenka. and is another great, I think, endorsement for the break she's had of missing some tournaments. This is the best of the two-week tournaments that aren't the Grand Slams because everybody is looking fresh and ready and up for it. It seems to just sort of ebb away as the fatigue comes in and as the boredom sets in of too many long events like this.

46:14But this one just works because everybody's new to it.

46:19Matt Roberts: Is it an endorsement of the break or is it an endorsement of getting a cute new puppy? Who can say? Igor Svjantek, I thought, looked fantastic against Karolina Mukova yesterday. I mean, the scoreline speaks for itself. 6-2, 6-1. This, you know, quite disappointing in terms of a competitive match. I really didn't think Mukova looked herself at all. I thought, yeah, she looked sluggish and a bit out of it and, you know, undoubtedly way, way off her peak. But equally, she does have an eager Shvantec problem, does Karanina Mukova. But yeah, from a Shvantec perspective, this match, I don't know what you thought.

47:00Matt Roberts: It felt like, to me, a bit of a blueprint for what the Wimfocet project has been trying to achieve. now that doesn't mean the project is complete and she's doing it and she's going to do it every match and it's going to be successful because frankly she was never under any pressure against Karolina Mukhova I want to see her do it when she's under extreme pressure but for sure this felt like very encouraging signs for that Win for Set project which she's really stuck with and through quite a lot of questioning of whether that relationship ought to continue.

47:44Catherine Whitaker: Definitely, yeah. And what I liked about it was how patient she was, but also aggressive, you know, like as David talked about, hitting with the margin, with the spin on the forehand and those forehands that, you know, you think are maybe going to go long and then they just dip at the last minute and she's got so much clearance over the net, There's so much safety built into them. And yet the opponent can't do that much off them because she's whipping them and they're bouncing up at them. So that was really impressive. She was also, I think, attacking the mouk of a second serve really, really nicely, redirecting the ball off her backhand particularly well.

48:30Catherine Whitaker: It was a really nice performance from Svantec. As you said, how much of an acid test is it, right? because the conditions favour her and the opponent favours her. I think come up against a different opponent in trickier conditions and that's where we've kind of seen her have the most issues. But she's also sometimes just sort of inexplicably gone off in matches as I talked about the other day. And that didn't happen at all. She was just ruthless in this one. And that was the Igor Sviontek we all know and love and have seen dominate this sport. So that was really impressive. I also thought it was interesting that she said afterwards that Mukova is pretty much the only player, the only WTA player that she watches.

49:17Catherine Whitaker: And she said, so therefore I know her game. And I was kind of thinking, why don't you watch some other players then? And she was really talking about it as though she feels really comfortable in the matchup because she knows her. And she is famously someone who does give the tactics away to her team.

49:36Matt Roberts: Yeah, she outsources all of it, doesn't she?

49:38Catherine Whitaker: Outsources all of it. And maybe that has worked for her. But I do sometimes think that there should be a slightly higher level of tactical acumen there to her. Because she is a smart person. She's a smart tennis player. And we don't always see that. But we did against Mukova. She knows how to play her. Yeah, maybe I'm reading too much into that. But it was something that did strike me. I feel like watch more WTA tennis should be your sort of homework here, Iguerite Shontek.

50:10Matt Roberts: She's got Svitolina next, which is a match-up that would be very easy to dismiss on the basis of what we saw yesterday from Iguerite Shontek. But to quote Matt Roberts in our WhatsApp chat, I'm going to quote you to you, Matt. 2026 Svitolina is no joke.

50:31Catherine Whitaker: I stand by it. I mean, she's been so good this year. And I think probably the only match that sort of stands out in a way where you would talk about her limitations would be the Australian Open against Sabalenka. but to focus on that I think would be to detract from the season she's had generally where she's been winning so many matches battling hard beating top players playing this more aggressive style than she used to play she's a problem for pretty much everyone and you know Spiontech has dominated their head to head but they've often had tight sets and I do think Svitolina will ask some of those questions that you're talking about there, Catherine.

51:22She'll put Svantec under pressure,

51:25Catherine Whitaker: and then it'll be a question of whether Svantec can respond to it. I think she probably will, but you cannot just brush Svitolina aside, especially this year. She's playing so well.

51:39Matt Roberts: Svitolina won via retirement over Katarina Siniarkova in the previous round, and on the subject of Siniarkova in her previous round before that. She was caught in the crossfire, quite frankly. Well, no, headline. She scored one of the biggest single wins of her career. Well done, Katerina Siniarkova. Secondary to that, she got caught in the crossfire of Mira Andreeva's latest meltdown, quite possibly her most dramatic yet, Matt. I mean, really quite extraordinary scenes at the end of this in Indian Wells.

52:25Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, it was bubbling away the whole match. She's got an awkward game, Siniak, a lot of slice forehands, sudden flat backhands. and she's a crafty player. She has her own battles, I think, with sort of keeping everything in check on court. But she was causing Andreeva problems. Andreeva was not at her best. And she was also injured, Siniakova. The fact that she retired against Vitalina sort of tells you that. She was not moving well, particularly in the second set, which she ended up stealing on a tie break. And that, I think, just was too much for Andreeva to be able to cope with. I think she thought she should be winning this match comfortably.

53:07Catherine Whitaker: And yet she wasn't. She was in a tussle and she kind of dismissed her team. They came back, but there was a moment where Muchita Martinez and the team left and they weren't there at the start of the third set. They were there by the end of the match again. And then the end was just like, you talked about memes, Catherine. I mean, cinematic scenes at the end with the racket slam from Andreeva when she lost. Then a handshake, booing from the crowd because Andreeva has slammed her racket away. Sinyakova slumping in her chair, exhausted, pretty much in tears. I think probably knowing that, OK, she scored this huge win, but how much of herself has she had to give there?

53:52Catherine Whitaker: and then andreva leaving the court mouthing off at the crowd and then the the the camera person and the director chef's kiss to them for capturing this scene where you get andreva mouthing off and leaving the court and then zooming in on this woman in the crowd gasping at andreva and clutching scandalized the fact that andreva had dared to be rude she was yeah she just could not cope with this it was hilarious absolutely hilarious scenes but sort of unfortunately underneath all of that there is there is the more serious and more troubling i think aspect of this being a continued pattern for andreva i've barely seen her lose a match over the last nine months or so where this hasn't defined it in some way where there's been some sort of spiral whether it be with the way she's playing whether it be with her box whether it be with the crowd whatever it is it feels like she's really struggling mindset wise mental wise on on court right now and And I don't know, I think you...

55:14Catherine Whitaker: It's kind of like the Marco Silva question at Fulham. Like there's been so much good done by Marco Silva and yet people are starting to question it. And I feel like there's been so much good done by Conchita Martinez. But I do think you've reached the point now where you have to question that relationship. And I don't want the answer in either situation, by the way, Marco Silva or Conchita Martinez, to be, let's just get rid of them. I think they've done too much good work. like there's too much positive there but I do think there needs to be some kind of reckoning and some kind of okay what we're doing isn't quite working in terms of taking us to that next level and something needs to change I think in this because for a long time you could sort of put it down to her age and you still can to a certain extent she is still young and for a long time but

56:04Matt Roberts: it's the trend isn't it it's the fact that it's not getting better it's getting worse and I think

56:09Catherine Whitaker: End of last season, I put a lot of it down to fatigue. You know, it just felt... But now, start of the season when she's fresh, it's still there. And I don't really have the answers, but I just know watching that, that something does need to change, I think, soon.

56:29Matt Roberts: So Rinder Kinesh compared to Federer and Kintyta Martinez compared to Marco Silva. Big, big, big week. so Svantec to face Svitolina the winner of that to face the winner of Pagula against Rabakina both of whom David is writing off in typical style warning myself not to who are you writing off less out of Pagula and Rabakina well the thing is I still think either one of them could win this match and then go and end up beating Svantec because that does seem to be something that happens and it's my But I do fall into that trap and I'm really trying hard not to. And yes, I could still be doing it because I think overall I would still put Schvantech through.

57:15I don't think that either one of these players necessarily plays as well in Indian Wells or at least feels as convincing in Indian Wells as maybe they do on the surfaces that are a little more lower bouncing and it's sort of in the hitting zone more obviously.

57:35Matt Roberts: Hang on a second. Rebecca is a former champion. Yes, that's very true. I mean, look, she can win on anything, can't she? If she's on, she can win stuff, doesn't it? I just, I'm not as convinced by it as I am on lower bouncing courts generally. But she's also starting to play her way into this tournament. You know, she had that rough one against Tadie Baptiste. Then she beat Marta Kostiuk. She's now beaten Sonny Cartel in a match that was ended in a retirement, but she was getting on top of that. Cartel, by the way, very good tournament for her. She'd beaten Madison Keyes from a set down in the previous round, the British player.

58:19I mean, that was an upset in its own right. And she's been battling a back injury all tournament, apparently, and then it was finally a little too much for her in this one. But it's a fascinating little bit of the draw because the last couple, Rabakina has beaten Pagula. Pagula has had wins against Rabakina as well. She's the one that I think that Pagula struggles to defuse. You know, when she's able to just sort of defuse the game of Anissimova and just drive her crazy, it doesn't seem to stop Rabakina. She just hits another one. It's like, okay, you got that one back, we'll have this one. And it never feels like her temperature rises in her head and she ends up getting down on herself or exploding in the moment.

59:12I would make Rebecca the favourite for it because I think she ultimately is the better player of the two. But, like I say, I'll be watching because I don't know. I don't feel that confident. And I don't feel Iguish Vyantek watching Karolina Moukova confident of what's going to happen.

59:33Catherine Whitaker: I thought Pagula was fantastic against Bengshik yesterday. I hadn't quite realised the one-sided nature of that head-to-head. Bengshik had never lost a set against Pagula in four meetings. And Pagula, even in the World Feed interview, she gave it. She literally said, nobody beats me five times in a row. and she said and she was right i'm a better player now than the last time we played you know a lot of those meetings were you know i think it was a couple in 2021 and she said i've got more tools now pergula i use my slice better and i i don't know i've just had a little mindset change with pergula i always felt like i was focusing on her limitations and that was probably a me problem but i always felt like i was thinking oh but she'll she'll reach her ceiling in a tournament I'm starting to think about like the possibilities of her game more and seeing the seeing the weapons she's got you know like this one got tight she served for the match in to win it easily in straight sets got pegged back went to a tie break she just upped it a little bit and she gave a big reaction when she won it like she knew that that was that was a big moment finally beating Bengtik I'm so impressed and yet I always underestimate Rabakina as well so that's a yeah really really intriguing match so that's

1:01:06Matt Roberts: the bottom half of the draw Shontek's Vitalina winner to face Pagula or Rabakina top half of the draw we've got Sabalenka against Mboko Sabalenka handily beating Naomi Osaka in the previous round of match that we were really excited about, disappointed that it got put in the vibeless death slot first on Stadium One. I mean, I thought this was just kind of an expose of the limitations of Naomi Osaka that Sabalenka once had herself and has worked so hard to not have anymore. And I don't, that probably sounds harsh on Emiya Sarka. The thing that she does, she does brilliantly still. She's still one of the best ball strikers on tour.

1:02:03Matt Roberts: But, and I, you know, I understand where she hasn't been able to develop her game and add tools to it in the way that Sabalenka has. You know, the period of time when Sabalenka was doing that with her game, Naomi Osaka was on maternity leave. And before that, she was having a mental health break from the sport. And there does come a point in your career where it does make more sense to work on the things you've already got rather than to try and add to your game. Like, where exactly that point in your career is, it varies for everyone, etc. etc. So I don't mean for it to sound harsh on Osaka. I more mean that the way Osaka was playing just underlined how extraordinary it is the way Sabalenka is added to her toolkit.

1:02:55Matt Roberts: She is so far from a ball basher is Sabalenka. Like she's she looked like Karolina Mukova out there but a Karolina Mukova that can also bash the ball better than anybody. It was so good from Sabalenka.

1:03:13Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, it was. I was having similar thoughts because, of course, the last time they'd met was in 2018. And back then you would have described Sabalenka as a ball basher. You know, a very good one, but no refinement whatsoever to her game. She was such an all or nothing player. And you think about it now and I was thinking, wow, the sport's moved on since 2018. And then I was thinking, no, Sabalenka's moved the sport on. You know, like she has, she's made it so that you now to be winning the biggest tournaments. She's kind of the bar. You've got to clear her, you know, like people we've seen win Grand Slams have often had to go through Sabalenka, whether it be Goff or Keyes or, you know, Rabatkin herself.

1:03:59Catherine Whitaker: and Sabalenka now is, as you said, an all-court player. The number of times she was coming to the net in this match was impressive and the slices she'll throw in in defence is just a shot that Osaka does not have. Yeah, she was very impressive, Sabalenka. And as you said, the dimension that Osaka has still very dangerous and did cause problems in that second set. But then Sabalenka met all those moments really well and responded to the pressure, be it break points or just a bit of pressure on serve and served her way out of them. What Sabalenka is looking for is that kind of composure and that responding to pressure in some of these Grand Slam finals that she's lost.

1:04:45Catherine Whitaker: because I think game-wise she's got more than everyone else right now and she probably feels like she doesn't quite have the Grand Sam tally to sort of reflect that. But if she can get that meeting the pressure moments right in the Grand Sam finals that she had here, she's pretty much unstoppable. She's also got an excellent new dog.

1:05:14Matt Roberts: I would like to I mean I think Ash is already a Hall of Fame tennis dog she's a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel I'm biased because Billie Jean is half Cavalier King Charles Spaniel but my god she's adorable she's yeah I mean she looks like a teddy bear I don't think I've seen her with her paws on the ground yet unclear if she does walk or if she just gets carried around but she's yeah she looks like she's on some sort of sedative all the time, just sort of flopping in people's arms. She's absolutely adorable. So we get another look at Savalenka Mboko in the next round. Mboko demolishing our prediction, Matt, from the last podcast.

1:05:58Matt Roberts: Thank you very much, Victoria Mboko. Handily dismissed Amanda Anisimova 6-4, 6-1. This match took place on Stadium 2 in the night session And we mentioned in the previous podcast that Stadium 2 was getting extremely sparse crowds because of the change in ticketing policy for 2026 and particularly in the night session matches. And it was so stark during Mboko and Ana Samova. OK, not in terms of a competitive match. It didn't quite live up to what we had hoped. But that is a all star hot ticket match. And it was empty. It felt like they were trying to create a physical metaphor for late stage capitalism with that match.

1:06:45Matt Roberts: It was a really dystopian, grim scene. And the Athletic pursued the story and they got the following quote from the tournament on that change to the ticketing policy to make Stadium 2 unavailable to grounds pass holders as it has been in previous years. the tournament said as the tournament continues to grow we are always evaluating opportunities to improve our programming and operations including ticketing offerings and the fan experience in advance of this year's tournament we decided to evolve ticket offerings in the stadium too to change the upper bowl seat sales from general admission to reserve ticketing like every decision we make we carefully evaluate it after each tournament's conclusion and that analysis informs future policies.

1:07:39Matt Roberts: I interpreted that, David, maybe this is overly optimistic, as a quiet admission that they won't be doing this again in the future, that they might be evolving back to their previous policy. If they've got any sense, they will be anyway. Is that how you interpreted it too? Yeah, I mean, it's been a disaster. It's been embarrassment. I mean, you've ended up with an empty stadium for huge tennis matches. I don't think that was your plan. And that's what's happened. So, well done. Change your back. Great. Yeah. No notes.

1:08:18Catherine Whitaker: Yes.

1:08:18Matt Roberts: It's not going to take much careful evaluation to realise what a mess they've made of that.

1:08:26Catherine Whitaker: I did want to just say how well Mboko played. And, you know, I was feeling really positive about Anissa Mova. I felt like she'd found the sort of equilibrium that she'd been missing at the start of the season. I was reading her press conference transcript and she was talking about Alyssa Liu and the inspiration she's taken from her and watching her and realising that she felt like at the start of the season she's been putting too much pressure on herself. And that was a shift from last year. And she needed to get back to kind of enjoying what she was doing. And I thought, well, that really marries up with this form that I've just suddenly seen against Blinkover and Raducanu.

1:09:05Catherine Whitaker: And it just felt like she was moving in the right direction. But I suppose this match was kind of a reminder that things are not always entirely, you know, a straight line with progress. You're going to have steps backwards. And I think we did see a bit of a sort of second set crash out again from Anissimova. And unfortunately for Anissimova, she's extremely funny when she's angry. and she sort of creates great memes as well. There was that one the other day where she was trying to stuff her racket in her racket bag after she'd lost. And this time there was the one where she was telling her team to sort of zip it and she sort of becomes a meme.

1:09:41Catherine Whitaker: But, you know, it's sort of relatable stuff. But, you know, it is the thing that I think she needs to work on the most. But I just want to say how well Mboko played and she's a bit of a shapeshifter, Mboko. You know, she can be the aggressor if she needs to, she's got real punch on her shorts. Or like in this match, she can really like say, okay, you want to go movement? I'll expose your movement. And the number of times she was exposing that element of Anissa Mova's game and getting her on the run and absorbing the pace and then packing a punch herself as sort of a line-hitting winner. She was great in this match, Mboko, and real control about her and composure about her, which was kind of lacking for Manisimova.

1:10:32Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, a lesson for me. Stop picking Amanda Manisimova for everything. And there's nothing like someone just absolutely dunking on one of your faves to sort of realise how good they are. And I probably have been a little bit sleepy on just how good Mboko is. And I hope she comes out against Savalenka.

1:10:53Matt Roberts: She feels like she's getting better every week. She does.

1:10:56Catherine Whitaker: And that's what makes the Sabalenka match interesting, right? Because we saw it a few weeks ago and there was a gap. But Mboko did cause some problems at the end of that match. And if she can start how she finished in Melbourne, it could be a great one. But then, you know, Sabalenka can also just raise it. So, yeah, I can't wait for that.

1:11:18Matt Roberts: I can't tell you how thrilled I was to hear Amanda Anderson maybe talk about not Alyssa Liu. Look, I think every human being on the planet can learn something from Alyssa Liu, but there is so much in her story and essence that tennis players in particular, I feel like, could learn or take something. So yeah, it really made my heart sing to see those quotes. Just finally on the women's side, Sabalenka against Mboka, the winner of that to take on Linda Nozkova or Talia Gibson. I mean, Nozkova seems on a sort of quite underrated, inevitable march towards the top 10, doesn't she? I mean, she kind of feels like a top 10 player to me in terms of her top level 6-2, 6-love against Alexandre Ayala in the previous round.

1:12:10Matt Roberts: Talia Gibson has qualified and now won three matches to make it through to the quarterfinals. her previous round win against Jasmine Paolini. And look, again, headline here is Talia Gibson, what a week, what a story, keeping sensation of the year alive, sensation of the day alive through until March. We thank you, Talia Gibson, very well done. And again, if this were a kind of isolated result for Jasmine Paolini, the story would absolutely be Talia Gibson. But the fact is that this defeat is part of a really quite worrying trend for Jasmine Paolini, Matt.

1:12:56Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, it is. You know, we talked the other day about how she battled through some three set matches earlier in the tournament. I think it's Potapova and Tomjanovic. The truth was the game wasn't really there, but she was at least coming through tight matches. and sometimes you feel like that's a way to build some confidence. In this one, she didn't look bad to me. She just looked ineffective, you know, and in the two-year spell, 2024 and 2025, where she was reaching slam finals, winning Rome, qualifying for the WTA finals, you wouldn't have described her game as ineffective. You know, she was...

1:13:38Catherine Whitaker: So many times we were caught by how much of a power player she seemed and stepping in and taking the ball early and changing the direction. And all of that's just sort of gone a little bit. The confidence has been sapped away. I don't know what it is. You know, she had a lot of coaching changes, hadn't she? Renzo Furlan out, Mark Lopez in for a bit. Now this guy Danilo Pizzorno's in. Irani's in a more official capacity. Maybe it's just been a little bit too much disruption there. I don't know. She was hit off the court. She was absolutely just hit off the court by Talia Gibson, who is in danger of sort of unsensationing herself.

1:14:19Catherine Whitaker: You know, she needs to be careful. She might be too good to be a sensation. She's playing so well.

1:14:25Matt Roberts: Jasmine Paolini's gone back to being a good draw and Talia Gibson is unsensationing herself. What a world.

1:14:33Catherine Whitaker: She is a big hitter off both wings. She really does clock the ball. It's quite impressive. And yeah, she just dominated, especially that final set. Return winners, power off both wings. Really like what I saw from her. But yeah, it is a tough scene for Paolini just now.

1:14:56Matt Roberts: OK, that is it for part two. And I'll look ahead to the women's quarterfinals and the rest of the women's tournament. We'll be back in part three with a bit of calendar news from the ATP. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the 14500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows, and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most.

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1:16:18Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast, where we just wanted to touch upon a story broken in The Athletic today, centering around the 10th ATP Masters 1000 event, the addition to the ATP Masters 1000 calendar, which we know is going to be held in Saudi Arabia. That is the extent of what has been announced so far. It is much rumoured to be an event that will take place in February after the Australian Open, but that hasn't been formally announced. Now, the story that's been broken today by The Athletic is about the ATP and about the Saudi Arabian authorities and the ways in which they intend to make space for that 10th Masters 1000 event, David, in the ATP calendar.

1:17:11Yeah, this is some seriously good reporting from Charlie Eccleshire and Matt Futterman and starts with the sentence, a shopping spree designed to reshape the calendar of the men's tennis tour is intensifying. because as well as trying to make space for that Saudi Arabian tournament that you referenced, they're also trying to sell it to the players as a calendar reshuffle to make the off-season longer. And obviously they want more money to be able to put it into players' pockets as well and all the rest of it that comes with it. So they're trying to do it in a manner that is acceptable to everybody.

1:17:52Now, one of the ways they're doing it is by using the vast riches of Saudi Arabia and the PIVF fund, the sort of sports arm of that, by buying back sanctions of tournaments. Charlie and Matt are reporting that they've already had offers accepted from the Chengdu Open, the Hong Kong Open later in the year. it's been recently announced that Brussels is going to be moving to the the reporting is at least it's going to move to the middle of the year and be on grass and then I think the bit the big headline elements of this story and I do encourage you to go and read the whole thing because it gives you the full background detail and all the various permutations but Buenos Aires and Acapulco in February which we've just had of course as part of the South American and Central American swing of tournaments that is so popular with players and so well attended they're also being offered vast sums to basically disappear or at least relocate exactly what will end up happening we don't know but the idea is to create that extra space it is going to cost a fortune in the athletics article it says hundreds of millions of dollars are going to be spent because not everybody wants to sell apparently the the tournaments in the middle east dubai doha they didn't want to move they don't want to move they don't want to disappear so they're just they're saying no thanks um so this is what's what we're left with most likely um and i mean it's where do you fall do do you think well i i want the the circuit to have this longer off-season and to be fewer events and less cluttered.

1:19:42OK, well, you can, but you're going to have to accept Saudi Arabia's money to do so, and they get a place at the table, and we've got to make room for them, and you get masses of money. But then you also don't get to have this amazing atmosphere in South America at one or two tournaments or in Acapulca. You can't have everything, is the bottom line, but they are saying that they can get stuff done and it's going to cost.

1:20:10Matt Roberts: It leaves me with the same feeling I had when the WTA announced the maternity fund, the funds for which were being provided by the Saudi Public Investment Fund, this sinister Faustian deal with the devil, quite frankly. You can have this brilliant thing that nobody could possibly argue with being a good thing. But hey, here's where the money's coming from. And you can't have everything, so do you want the money or not? Like, nobody's going to argue that the... It's very, very canny from them because nobody can argue that shortening the calendar is a bad thing and the players certainly aren't going to argue that.

1:21:05Matt Roberts: But yeah, it comes at both a very real cost in terms of, you know, the decimation of the South American swing is potentially tragic really for men's tennis and then obviously the sort of the moral cost of further intertwining yourself with with a state with the human rights record that Saudi Arabia has, of which our views are extremely clear. But yeah, it's fantastic reporting, as you say, David, from Matt and Charlie in The Athletic. And we will keep you updated as things progress. And obviously there's the other element at the moment of, you know, further entrenching yourself with the Middle East feels like just not a brilliant thing to be to be doing on a practical level right now for for any sport.

1:22:05Matt Roberts: But obviously that that deal is is already done for the ATP. OK, that is that is it for today's show. Feels like feels like there's been a lot. I feel like I need a bit of a lie down. A lot of good stuff, a lot of really meaty stuff to get our teeth into. But yeah, I need, well, either a lie down or I need to stare at a dog for a while. And luckily there is a dog available for me to stare at and it's Goldie. I really love Goldie. Goldie is an apricot miniature poodle owned by Tracy. So if you put Goldie together with Ash, Irina Sabalenka's new dog, you get Billie Jean. What a joy. Goldie just turned 13 and she's big sister to our epileptic, Bach-loving, aria-singing Labradoodle, Gary.

1:23:03Matt Roberts: Absolutely obsessed with a Labradoodle called Gary. Goldie is a vocalist too, but not interested in classical music. Her insistent vocalisations start about an hour before each meal time, a high-pitched warbling to let us know that she wouldn't mind an early bird seating. She has a friend called Ziggy, who, 12 years her junior, gives Go-Go the run-around, which I assume is the nickname for Goldie. Love that. Ziggy gives Go-Go the run-around, which she mostly grudgingly tolerates. She joined our family at eight weeks old and has licked away tears, celebrated dozens of birthdays, myriad graduations, endured the horrible pain of people going away to college.

1:23:45Matt Roberts: She still tries to get inside suitcases when anyone is leaving and pretty much continuously scavenged every trash bin for used tissues, which she tears to bits. We love her so, says Tracy. And she's absolutely gorgeous. I'm biased because she's got a bit of the Billie Jean about her, but she's she's wonderful. Thank you, Tracy. And thank you, Goldie. Hello to our mascots, Bodie, Maisie and Roger. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. Let's have some shout outs, Matt.

1:24:19Catherine Whitaker: We have Ada Pesch in Zurich.

1:24:24Matt Roberts: Hello, Ada.

1:24:25Catherine Whitaker: We know Ada. And Ada says, I have a tortoiseshell rescue cat called Fang. And says, I haven't met Roger Federer yet, but his parents have come to the opera house where I'm the concert master. And I've met them. Yes, we know Ada's the Zurich concertmaster, of course.

1:24:47Matt Roberts: I love the I haven't met Roger Federer yet. I love the confidence of that. Yeah, haven't met Bruce Springsteen yet, Matt. Absolutely.

1:24:59Catherine Whitaker: Absolutely.

1:25:00Matt Roberts: Thank you, Ada.

1:25:02Catherine Whitaker: We've also got Barry Bobrow.

1:25:07Matt Roberts: Hello, Barry.

1:25:09Catherine Whitaker: Hello, Barry. Who is from Charlotte, North Carolina.

1:25:12Matt Roberts: that's an iconic name Barry

1:25:14Catherine Whitaker: and Barry Barry says my wife Karen and I are huge fans of the pod we go to the US Open every year and we keep walking by the press area underneath Ash looking for a sighting of you all

1:25:27Matt Roberts: oh Barry keep doing it you'll see us eventually that is that is the right place to find us yeah if Matt can meet Bruce Springsteen one day you can meet us no truth yeah Adda's going to meet Roger Federer You're going to meet us and Matt's going to meet Bruce Springsteen. These things are going to happen.

1:25:47Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, just walk by the media garden between sessions, day and night, and chances are we'll be recording the pod.

1:25:59Matt Roberts: Barry Cowan. Yeah, who's been commentating this week. I said that as if we might have more Barrys, But I think we're one and done with Barry Cowan there, aren't we? Yeah, probably. Yeah. Thank you, Barry.

1:26:16Catherine Whitaker: And finally, we have a shout out from Karen Wooster for her new daughter-in-law, Mary Claire Fisher, who's from Ann Arbor, Michigan. And Karen writes, Matt delivered a surprise birthday shout out for my son, Ryan, at the 2024 live show in New York. I remember this. Ryan and Mary Claire were married in December. They spent their honeymoon in New Zealand, Tasmania and Australia and capped off their trip at the Australian Open where Mary Claire completed the fan slam. So cool.

1:26:58Matt Roberts: Wow. Well, Ryan's chosen well, hasn't he?

1:27:02Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, well, Karen agrees. Karen says, Mary Claire is a journalist, hiker and has a cat named Charlie. I couldn't be happier. She's a wonderful addition to our family.

1:27:13Matt Roberts: What a lovely, generous and kind thing to do. Karen's just gifting shout outs left, right and centre. What a woman. I love it so much, Karen. Thank you. And welcome to the shout out family. Mary Claire already having completed your fan slam. What whatever next? that's absolutely lovely so thank you Karen and hello Mary Claire so Mary Claire Karen Barry and Ada thank you very much indeed for being friends of the tennis podcast of course if you'd like to become a friend of the pod get yourself a shout out an intro all sorts of things and access to all of our bonus content ad free listening all that jazz the link is in our show notes we are part of the Athletic Podcast Network And we'll be back on Monday with our Indian Wells Review Show.

1:28:08Matt Roberts: And that show is live on YouTube at 8 p.m. UK time if you'd like to join us then. Thanks for listening. We'll speak to you Monday.

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