Live from Wimbledon Day 11 - Muchova edges Gauff in classic

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1:56Matt Roberts: Hello and welcome to the tennis podcast live from Wimbledon and presented by Barclays, the official banking partner of Wimbledon. It is day 11 of the championships women's semifinals day, which has become a bit of a banker for good matches in recent times. And boy, did we get that today. Two good semifinals won by two Czech players, Linda Noškova and Karolina Mukova. But the match that today will be remembered for is the first of the two semifinals between Coco Goff and Karolina Mukova. won by Mukova 7-6 in the third 12-10 in the tie break after two hours and 35 minutes and saving a match point along the way people don't beat Coco Goff David in majors in this kind of match it doesn't happen how did Karolina Mukova do it it's a great question I find myself wondering that because Coca-Goff kind of had her right where she wants her in that scenario I'm sure she didn't want to lose the first set 6-2 and she was getting comprehensively outplayed in that but once she'd leveled once she'd got it into the meat of a third and deciding set and Matt had provided me with a stat a few days ago to say that she'd won 18 of her most recent 21 three set matches at Grand slam tournaments that had gone up to 19 out of 22 following the Pegula win at that point I feel like really Goff should be a heavy favorite really because you could tell the effect it had been having on Mukova trying to trying to carry on and continue executing this incredibly expressive game that she has and she was doing a great job of it obviously the second set was six one and one sided but when it went into a a real throw down affair at the end of the match you know I sort of I was in awe of Mukova for keeping up with her frankly but when it was in the in the match tie break and there was a time violation at 8-all and I realize I'm jumping ahead here but this is what really sticks with me there was a time violation on Mukova's serve at 8-all and she seemed to just go at that point and the point she played was she just about rolled a serve and her immediate backhand sailed a mile long.

4:24She's match point down. I thought the match was over even before the next point. And then when the match point took place and Goff hit pretty much the perfect serve and had a mid-court forehand to put her in the final and hit a drop shot from shoulder height into the bottom of the net. I don't think I've probably been more shocked in a commentary box than that. and that's where I had the privilege of watching this match on BBC Radio. But enormous credit, I think, needs to go to Mukova for hanging in, giving herself the chances, and eventually taking them. And I just loved this match so much. I loved the sporting nature between the two of them.

5:10Goff must have applauded Mukova's shots three or four times in the match. There were lots of nods of the head from Mukova, and sort of wry smiles at the extraordinary things Goff was doing. And it genuinely was one where I felt sorry that there had to be a loser in it. And I think that that is what Goff takes away from this as well. She's sad, she's disappointed, but she knows what she was part of today.

5:35Matt Roberts: Two grown-ups on the court, as well as two brilliant tennis players. Cameraman Matthew was en route to Wimbledon during this match and didn't get to watch it live. knew who the winner was but didn't know about the the fun and games along the way say so we just got to show him the the sequence of points from atoll and got to experience uh matthew's live reactions which really was quite a cathartic experience actually um and really summed up the whole occasion which is still matt rattling around in my brain those that sequence of points and i think will be for a very very long time yeah matthew definitely had more of a look of

6:24Catherine Whitaker: disgust than i had on my face at the time i suppose but oh lord that's what we got from but um you know it was actually like the whole tie break was a bit of a fever dream i mean i I thought it started with tremendous quality, actually. And by this stage, we should say that Mukova was feeling it physically. She was clutching at her right side. I believe Laura Robson's court side felt that it was a stitch, and Mukova has confirmed that in press. So it's a great observation from Laura there. But we weren't really sure what it was. We knew she was feeling it physically. But at that moment, she stepped up her aggression and played the tiebreak much more aggressively than she played a lot of the rest of the match.

7:09Catherine Whitaker: and she was pulling it off. I mean, there was a serve volley earlier in the tie break from Mukova off her toes with a volley onto the line and then there was a diving volley to win the point as well. And it was just so good. The quality was so high. But Goff was staying with her. She was down a mini break but she was keeping it close. She wasn't getting too far behind. And then it got really, really nervy, the tiebreaker. and at 7-0, Gough hit the most awful double fault shank. And there had been very few double faults from Gough through the match. It was not the story of this match, but there was one right there and then.

7:51Matt Roberts: It was one of those where it's...

7:53Catherine Whitaker: Oh, it was a horror.

7:54Matt Roberts: It was a comedy double fault.

7:56Catherine Whitaker: The ball went the wrong way. It was a disaster. You don't need that, do you? No, it's just not what you need at that point. She recovered, won the next point. Then we had the time violation, the aborted ball toss from Mukova, and Goff gets to that match point. And look, we're going to be talking about that shot for a long, long time, I think. I think she should have committed and hit the forehand. I think it probably tells you how little she trusts her forehand in a big moment that she didn't. But she'd been so good all day up at the net. I just think hit the forehand to a corner, commit to it and force Mukova to hit a pass.

8:36Catherine Whitaker: And then you've got two ways to win the point. You might hit an outright winner on the forehand or you might win it on the next shot. She will say and she did say and she may well be right to say I hit a lot of good drop shots. And Mukova was far in the court. She was pretty deep. And if I make it, everyone thinks I'm a genius. The problem is I think it bounces on her. And as David said, she hits it at kind of shoulder height. She's a little unsure of what shot to hit and she just doesn't have the touch in the moment. And it goes bottom of the net.

9:06Matt Roberts: See, I think she was right to not hit the forehand. I mean, of course, if the forehand is reliable, hit it properly and do exactly what you said. I think she was right not to trust it in that moment. I don't have an issue with the shot selection. Obviously, having seen the execution, terrible decision. But I don't think in the circumstances, knowing what we do about Goff's forehand, it was it was the wrong I mean we'll never know do we? Mookova says well I was going to get there anyway even if she'd made it which was an incredible reaction that there's this still which I'm sure lots of people watching and listening have seen of like the moment Gough hits the shot and how far back in the court Mookova is in that moment and it looks like god Coco it didn't need to be very good like all you had to do was vaguely get it over the net and you're winning the point but Mukova says no, I was getting there.

10:00I suppose the thing is as well with a shot selection like that on match point, that is when touch is probably the most difficult to achieve. It's so easy to say that sitting here. I thought, I understand that shot selection, you know, because I think if she clears that net, she's winning that point. I know that Mukova had set off, she thought she was going to get there, but I don't think there was anything wrong with that shot selection. What I found very interesting was when Goff was asked about it, She said, yeah, what I perhaps could have done in hindsight is done a slice down the line with the forehand.

10:32And I'm thinking, that is not an option I thought of at all.

10:36Matt Roberts: But she had, I do like that shot. But mid-court, you know, forehand, you know, I'm sort of thinking, well, isn't it just there for you to just swipe at? But look, again, it's never very easy for me to sit in. You could have said that about the second serve a couple of points earlier that she hit in the wrong direction, though, couldn't you?

10:55Catherine Whitaker: and the thing is there was still so much drama after the drop shot because this now levels it up 9-0 and then Mukhova plays a delightful point and hits a lovely lob over Gough to set up her match point and then we get just as dramatic a moment almost as the drop shot which is Gough hitting a forehand pass beyond Mukhova at the net after Mukhova just slips at the net in real time I thought she might have left it but actually watching it back she definitely slips and Goff had come up with a great cross-court forehand pass there but you know again I'm thinking oh Mukova maybe could have done more with the volley so there's such drama and we're now at we're now at 10 all and they've both had match point they've both had chances and then credit again to Mukova for the next point she played bossing it with her forehand she hit several good forehand and eventually hit a winner and then on match point she hit a backhand down the line that that Goff couldn't couldn't retrieve over the net and and that was it so you know they both responded to moments where they'd had letdowns by raising their game and and coming up with with great shots it was so dramatic and it I was so pleased that the third set was like that because the first two sets were quite I found a bit disappointing actually that was really intrigued by the match but neither of them were playing well at the same time it's very much like the goth pagula match in that way it suddenly took and this was better but it took off in a third set yeah and when the third set was nip and tuck and they were holding serves the the drama was building and the tension was building and it was oh it was magnificent and again the goth pagula match and

12:41Matt Roberts: countless other goth matches at majors particularly in the latter stages of majors just made me think Mukoven needed to put her away in two sets Mukoven needed to keep doing what she was doing in the first set because as soon as Goff turns it into this kind of match Goff wins them certainly at this stage of majors I just can't get over the fact that Mukoven won this kind of a match against Coco Goff I find that extraordinary really just such an achievement I think it is one of the biggest achievements in the sport right now To beat Coco Goff at a major, deep in the third set.

13:20Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, it struck me watching it in the first set. It's such a singular experience watching Goff in a match like this because any other player who didn't really have their game in that first set was being outplayed by someone playing a beautiful brand of grass court tennis. I'd have thought, well, this is going to be over in two sets. But with Goff, I just trust her. I just trust her to get into the match.

13:44Matt Roberts: Our mate Dave texted us. He was here today, texted us after the first set saying, oh, French Open's happening again, basically. I've got another dud on my hand. What was the one he had that time?

13:54Catherine Whitaker: He had Svantec winning Love and Love.

13:57Matt Roberts: And he had a Rabakna withdrawal and then he had a Kasparud situation.

14:02Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, and then an Andrescu situation. Yeah.

14:05Matt Roberts: He got unlucky on his trip to the French Open and he texted a why always me type text after the first set. And I said, Dave, it's goth.

14:15Catherine Whitaker: have some faith and look even in that first set she got had a 1540 and didn't convert she had a love 40 and didn't convert there were there were chances there and I thought she would draw from that and draw some belief thing is though what I what I did doubt a little bit was that I thought it'd be harder for her to find her rhythm against Mukovo than it had been against Benchik and Pagula these quite steady baseliners. Goff had the time and hit just a lot of balls to be able to find rhythm in those matches. But she even did it against Mukova, who was giving her different looks and trying to take her rhythm away and play with variety.

14:55Catherine Whitaker: So for Goff to do that and get into this match, it's incredible, and it's particularly incredible over best of three, I think. There were men's players over time who I've thought, oh, well, first set doesn't matter too much. They've got loads of time, Djokovic being a prime example. There was that year he almost won the calendar slam. He kept losing first sets in majors, but you backed him to get into the match. But he's got the five sets. Goff doesn't, but it seems that she's able to use that kind of deadline and that, wow, I need to get something going to actually help her grow in a match rather than feel the pressure and shrink.

15:32Catherine Whitaker: It's an incredible thing that she pulls off. So, yeah, to your point, for Mukova to resist that and find her game again in the third set, which did drop off in the second, was remarkable. And it was also just such a nice match to watch because of the all-court nature of it. I mean, Goff's willingness to come to the net today and her success up there as well was so notable.

15:56Matt Roberts: I really hope that's not just a grass thing for Goff. I think that could be a real key for her. I realise it might feel like more of a sticking plaster than a cure for the forehand situation, but maybe that's okay at this stage in her career. I don't know, but it definitely, that forward intent, I think it's good anyway because she's so athletic, she's got such good reach. She's not a mukova at the net, but she's got decent touch. So I think it's a good tactic in itself, but it also improves her forehand to just have that forward intent. She's sort of caught off balance or weight falling backwards less, I think, when she's thinking like that.

16:42When we were latter stages of the third set, and we were just taken by virtually every point, one or other of these two were at the net to finish things off and looked at the stats, and Goff had been to the net more than 30 times, and then we were in the middle of the third set. and actually what I think she does incredibly well at the net is trust herself she doesn't panic she doesn't sort of say oh I'm at the net and I haven't won the point already you know she's she does back her ability to just fend off passing shots and I think that was really getting in Mooka's head that she couldn't seem to pass her she got one pass beyond her right at the end of the match that felt like a one-off because everything else she was either reading or reacting to and making it and I think Zverev does that very well at the net you know sometimes you think well he's just a sitting duck and then suddenly out of nowhere he extends an arm and and definitely Goff has got that and and I think it is it could be a blueprint for the future not just on grass as well because i think it does cover up the the frailties on the forehand side in particular she plays it better moving forward anyway and she has to play fewer of them if she's moving it moving forwards she might have to play more you know drop shot i think that's all there for her the beauty is because she's so young she can almost look at seven years of her career and say okay well that was that right now let's do this i think this is a new phase for her federer

18:17Matt Roberts: that was the advice he gave Alcaraz wasn't it to think of your career in terms of five year five year chunks um Koko Goff's going to be okay isn't she I think she was as absolutely as devastated as you'd expect after losing a Wimbledon semi-final from match point and playing playing that shot on match point but she also said that even walking off the court I was feeling like That was a lot of fun and like taking pride in having been part of a match like that. And she she also said, I know that every champion has had this in her in their careers. And she said, I know Federer had match points here in a Wimbledon final.

18:59And she talked about Sinner having them in the French Open final.

19:03Matt Roberts: She was like, this happens to great, great players. It's my turn today. I can process this. and she said it will make it sweeter the next time I do when a match like this. It was all... I mean, we expect it from Goff, don't we, to be that well-adjusted, but it is extraordinary. She does make me feel now that she will win a Wimbledon and it's not just because of that attitude, which I think is a very healthy one, it's because I think she probably has unlocked something as a blueprint for the future. But you're right, I mean, I think that's a really clever way of thinking of it, remembering that all, the all-time greats have gone through this and how cool is it to have a bit of perspective and I do believe her that because when I watched her very close up as she was walking off the court and just an acknowledgement that this was a really special match I love that in terms of in terms of Mukava like of course I think I think you have to admit that Goff winning Goff going for a Wimbledon title in terms of cut through and a story outside that can sort of spread outside of tennis goss the one isn't she but inside tennis there could not be more excitement i don't think than there is for carolina mukova like she is she's a real favorite she is such a favorite it feels like come on mukova well she deserves a grand slam she deserves a wimbledon like does feel like the sport is willing her on you know yes i completely agree with that you know

20:40Catherine Whitaker: everyone has their own favorite styles of play and all that kind of stuff but like most people you speak to say oh i love mukhaver's tennis you know everyone gets a bit sort of dreamy eye talking about mukhaver's tennis and the classical nature of it and it's always everyone has always thought it should work on the grass and she came in here with that with that record that we talked about with four straight round one losses here and it had been her worst slam. Okay, she'd reached a couple of quarter finals. She shows she can play on it. She obviously won the title in the build-up. We'll be closing in around 15 minutes.

21:19Matt Roberts: Please exit gates and take all your belongings with you. We hope you've enjoyed your day at Wimbledon and wish you a safe and pleasant journey home. thank you oh Christ out of ten three three I couldn't hear him because I was listening to you it was listen to it back David

21:43Catherine Whitaker: and you'll you'll understand why I gave you a three

21:45Matt Roberts: it was absolutely shocking in the chat how many do I deserve I wasn't expecting you to I wanted to leave leave you to it I was expecting us to be the backing of singers to your did you remember to practice please say you didn't Honestly, David, I didn't think I needed to. I approached her that a bit caballi-like. You're brutal, aren't you? And laid a similar sized egg, I would say. Honestly, Matt Roberts used to be such a nice lad. He's savage. Where were we? Karolina Mukova. Mukova.

22:19Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, her tennis, grass. And she's missed so many majors, you know, through injuries. And she's missed so much time on tour. And she felt like one that might get away, you know. You don't want her to be a what-if player. You never wanted to have that feeling about Mukava. And for a number of years, we kind of did. But in the last year or so, ever since she came back from an injury, which I thought could be really career-ruining. I mean, watching her here last year when she couldn't properly hit the backhand, it felt like, oh, she might just be hanging on to her career now because as good as her slice is, she needs the two-handed backhand.

22:59Catherine Whitaker: and she couldn't hit it and here we are a year later and everything's changed and she's had a real run of health and fitness and she's used the tour as well I think to to build up some of the fangs that I've honestly I have doubted in the past that she'd got over the line and won titles and I think that all builds confidence of being able to make it through draws and win the big matches and close the winning points and yeah it she looks ready now is the mook of a fang question mark put to bed now completely yeah yeah i think so i mean look she's not technically she's she's not done anything here she hasn't done before she saved match point to reach a grand slam final at the french open a few years ago and maybe i should have put it to bed then but i i did still have the doubts in terms of actually like being able to win titles and that kind of stuff and she's done that now plus this again she she's gone toe-to-toe with goth in this environment

24:03Matt Roberts: and come out on top i mean i don't think you can do that you can't do that without and that's the thing she may lose matches from ahead it happens to everybody but there's at some point you you You have a test of your mettle. Yeah. And she's passed that today. Yeah. Do we have any concerns about her physically? I know that it was a stitch that she was experiencing. It was unbelievably hot today. Then they were playing in the worst of the conditions. And I do totally believe her that that's what was going on. A heck of a call from Laura Robson in commentary. But I do think today took a lot out of her as well.

24:42Matt Roberts: and preparing for a Wimbledon final is going to be its own kind of exhausting, I would have thought, and it is due to be hot again on Saturday. We are back in, Catherine talks about the weather a lot territory. Boy, do I wish we weren't. Is that a concern? She was perfectly pleasant in press. She's a delight, Mukhova, but she definitely seemed exhausted. I would say. Yeah, I think she was. I don't feel, talking to her, listening to her, watching her still serve at 114 miles an hour after she was sort of touching her side, I don't feel that there's an injury there that is going to stop her competing.

25:28I think that it probably is what she said. I do believe that. Are you worried about the tank, though, at all? I don't think so, because of the length of the match that she's likely to have. and Noschkovic isn't the same sort of player as Goff. She's not going to be asked the sort of questions physically that she was asked today. And I do feel like the best part of 48 hours is enough. She's a really good athlete. There's a stone left unturned there. I think the biggest problem will be nerves.

26:00Catherine Whitaker: I was going to say, do you think... They're both going to have that to deal with. This is a first-time Wimbledon occasion for both of them. with all the pomp and ceremony of Wimbledon's final day and it's 4pm and it's quite late, you know, there's a lot of time to think about it all. Oh, the stillness. Yes. I'm getting nervous just thinking about the pre-match stillness.

26:21Matt Roberts: But look, it was the first time for both of them today playing opponents that had been on Centre Court before and they both won, the two first-timers. And actually the club, I think, invited them to both do the walk onto Centre Court this morning and have a hit on Centre Court this morning, Moukhova and Nozkova together is the two that hadn't had that opportunity before and I'm quite sure that helped by the way and I'm glad that happened because I don't want a semi final to be decided by some sort of experience deficit of that kind certainly so that gives me hope that that they dealt with that each so well today.

27:07Matt Roberts: But yeah, I do share that concern. I'd love it if they could both come out on Saturday and feel themselves and play well. You know, because it could be a really good match. I think that that's another good match-up in terms of just the way they're playing. And because Mukova has these incredible hands on the defence, even if Noshkova's hitting big, I think she can manipulate the ball back. So very interested in seeing how it goes. But yeah, massive day for them both. It's just the biggest day of their careers, isn't it? Pam's back in the chat. And she has announced this by saying, Pam is back.

27:54Matt Roberts: Of course she has. Pam is back. What a semi-final day. Yes, Pam. Agree.

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30:53Matt Roberts: Right, Linda Norskowicz, 6-4, 6-4 over Marta Kostiuk. a serve quality rating today David of 9.5 for Noskova. Wow and you know I didn't get to watch all of it because I was in the press conferences for Goff and Muka but watched a lot you know we had the phone on didn't we in the press comments while we were waiting for them and the sheer number of times I saw Linda Noskova burn Kostiuk today with her slice out wide serve it has to be one of the most devastating serves in tennis right now. It doesn't move that fast, but she gets such an acute angle on it, and then it carries on curving away. I saw this happen against Mertens in the previous round.

31:39A full extended arm and a lunge, and players are still not really able to deal with it. It was almost like a cheat code. She would just go back to that and then win a point. so I'm not surprised I think she she is quietly devastating Linda Noschkova she quietly just knocks you out the tournament and I think you you must wonder as an opponent did I really play the match did I really get chance to go through because I just I seemed to come on the court and the next thing I know I was walking off it again because there's so little drama about the way Linda Noshkova plays she's just devastating in that sort of understated way and quite brilliant ball striker um great temperament she showed today I thought um and yeah all credit to her yeah I think everything that David just described as

32:40Catherine Whitaker: so well like suited the conditions they walked out onto as well on center court you know like two and a half hour first semi-final in the heat of the day everyone needed needed a break you know like everyone needed to try and get some air con if they could or just go to the loo fill up water like and then they walked out and it was it was a bit flat on center court and it's totally understandable but that just I think allowed both players actually to settle quite quickly and I thought they both they both did that but you kind of you know a kind of bit of fire and ice Kostiuk and Noskova and I just always thought in that kind of scenario Noskova would be able to just play her tennis I think not I think Kostiuk needs a bit more of a spark to kind of get going and Noskova is is so quietly devastating as David said and Kostiuk threw in a really poor game on serve at 4-5 just under pressure from the Noskova return she hits it hard and flat and deep and it's a hard ball to control but Kostiuk didn't control it all that well and then double faulted at 15-40 and that was it the set was over and it was kind of at that moment really that everyone like okay tuned back in I'm ready now for this semi-final and Noskova's already up a set she went up a break as well at the start of the second and then Kostiuk had a flurry and did the things that she did against paulini and made a miracle return to stay in a game got her forehand firing got the break back got it back level and i thought okay she's she's building something maybe she can grow into this match but it took something very special to be able to lift her level above noskovitz who was just like at a constant eight and a half out of ten you know like seriously good and then the same thing happened at the end of end of the second set has happened at the first and Noskova just gets the break.

34:37Catherine Whitaker: And that's it. The match is quite suddenly over. And she's so good on the grass, Noskova, that her hands on the return, she hits this two-handed slice return that just floats back but lands deep and just puts the opponent in a difficult position. And then she takes over with her deep ground strokes and flat hits. She's very, very good. and she's got the serve to roll through her own service games. And I think it's been impressive to have won a title before Wimbledon, kept it going on the grass, quickly became the highest seed left in her half. And it just doesn't feel like anything has phased her whatsoever.

35:22Catherine Whitaker: She's just kept playing her game match after match. And that, I think, is a big improvement from 12 months ago where, you know, I always mention it, but that match with Anissa Mova, I kind of look back now and think of it as a bit like that sort of Sabalenka-Osaka match from the US Open where Osaka went on and reached the final, won the title. It wasn't quite that extreme but Anissa Mova just got the better of it last year. But that was a stressful match on both sides of the net and I just think Noskova's lowered the temperature a bit that she plays at and it's allowing her to produce this stunning tennis.

35:59Matt Roberts: Kostjik's take on the match was exactly the same as both of yours. She said, I didn't have a chance. I wasn't allowed to really make a match of it today in the way I would have wanted. And that kind of helps me feel very much at peace with what happened there very quickly. She said, today couldn't have been more different to Paris. She said, today there was a match. Like, I was in the match. I just wasn't able to do anything with that because of how good she was. whereas in Paris she wasn't in the match she didn't show up she showed up today it's just there was nothing to be done because Kisnoshkova was that good I take her at her word as to how she felt on the court and I definitely enjoyed that flurry that you mentioned from Kostiuk in the in the second set but I also still think compared to the other tennis I saw from the other players today there were some unforced errors that you just can't you can't get away

36:59Catherine Whitaker: with in in in this scenario and the end of each set she did tighten does that look it's a sample

37:06Matt Roberts: size of two and she's very young and she's improving all the time she's in this phase of rapid improvement but does that place any question mark in your mind about Kostiuk as the big match big stage player like in terms of a grand slam contender because that is how we're thinking of her now i think if she can continue on this path and i actually think it's really healthy that her view is that i don't really have regrets today and so back to work i think that's a lot easier for her to process and and carry on for next time um but i i think she will need to to improve on that in the future and my guess is that by playing a couple of these big matches she will improve for next time um or certainly improve for the future i mean she's proved she's got the goods that's why actually what what happened today i thought was a bit disappointing because i didn't I know that this is a very different type of opponent to what she faced with Jasmine Paolini.

38:10I realise that. You know, you get more chance to play in that match than when you're playing Nostkova. Like I said, you just can suddenly realise that the thing's over. But I think that she could have done a better job today. I think she could have tightened up her game a little bit, stayed with Nostkova and given herself a chance for the flurry to be at the right time.

38:34Matt Roberts: it was played when she was trying to come back it is i do i do find it fascinating and amazing that like tennis players and i'm sure all athletes basically just can't allow themselves to believe in the concept of having regrets they're like i mean i mean lots of people talk like this don't they like i don't have any regrets because if i hadn't made that mistake i wouldn't be where i am now and like but you don't know where you would have been and like if goff said that didn't she about the match point i don't have any regrets i'm like you sure you wouldn't have liked to do that differently it is an interesting one isn't it um sometimes in life and you have to make yourself okay she may be right and i may be wrong but she played the match she knows what it's like to be on the end of the noska tennis shots i don't i can only say what i'm looking at um but i i just see i do see it a little differently to how she's described it there but if but if she is also sort of self-protecting a little bit I also completely understand that um and uh I hope it happens for Kostchuk because she's one of my favorite players to watch I think she's great for the game um and I hope she gets her moment and I do believe she will I think she's that good on so many services she could win any of the grand slams in terms of suitability I think do you agree Matt yes i i i not going to make yourself unpopular in czechia sorry in ukraine like you are in uh the philippines sorry jim matt can't afford to piss off any more nations

40:12Catherine Whitaker: i think i agree with david's point that she can now plan any surface and she's a she's a all surface threat and i think that also goes for golf you know like i think suddenly for golf the career slam has suddenly come into view in a way that before this tournament I would have thought oh well Wimbledon is going to be an obstacle, I kind of think she might get an Australian Open one day and now this feels on as well and I think for Kostiuk she's got shots at winning majors, look I do think she's in a great run of form right now I don't think she's going to be winning, what was it 22 of 23 matches all the time you know I think she's gonna have dips and gonna have spells where she's not this consistent but I trust her and that coaching setup I think it's one of the most healthy sounding coaching setups on tour and the improvements she's made this year I I think she's definitely got shots at majors ahead of her for sure I've got some stats for the final

41:22Matt Roberts: Yes, please.

41:23Catherine Whitaker: The first ever Wimbledon final between two women who've saved match point along the way. Noskova saved match point against Kosteja. Muka were obviously today against Goff. I'd forgotten that. It's also the first, this is from Opta, this is the first Wimbledon singles final at Wimbledon between two players who've won lead-up events on grass at WTA level since 1990. Wow. With Ratalova and Zina Garrison, that was. and Mukava has beaten three straight slam champions in the second week to reach the final and she's become the sixth player to do that after Chris Everett, Serena, who did it twice Rabatkinner and Anzjabar

42:13Matt Roberts: Matthew just interjected

42:15Catherine Whitaker: Yes, no, not Steffi Croft

42:18Matt Roberts: No, these are Wimbledon stats, Matthew No, no. Actually, that is a Grand Slam stat.

42:24Catherine Whitaker: French Open 999. Celeste, Davenport, Ingers. In the second week? All in the second week? Quarters, semis, final. Sorry, guys.

42:37Matt Roberts: Is that a Matt Roberts or is that an Opta? That's Opta, yeah. Who is Matthew taking down here? Let's check it. Let's check it live. Okay. So Matthew thinks, off the top of his head, Graf 99 French Open she beat Davenport Sellers Hingis no but Hingis was in the final

42:58Catherine Whitaker: this is to reach the final oh

43:00Matt Roberts: you just didn't listen did you Matthew I'm trying to concentrate he said I'm trying to concentrate I think we need new stuff next year Andy eats your crisps

43:19Catherine Whitaker: borrows Sorry, yeah.

43:21Matt Roberts: Ever heard of anyone borrowing crisps? No. You have now. Us neither. Who, I will ask you this again tomorrow and on Saturday in our preview show, which I think we're doing at midday on both the finals days. Correct. We'll have two podcast days, or rather two show days on Saturday and Sunday. We do a preview at midday just for YouTube Live and Lon Live if you want to watch it later, but it will go out of date quite quickly and that's why we don't put it up as a podcast. So I will ask you this question multiple times over the next 36 hours and you have the right to change your time at any point.

43:59Matt Roberts: Right at this moment, who do you think is winning that final?

44:05Catherine Whitaker: Mukava. At this moment, I think I might go Noskova.

44:13Matt Roberts: David's always... David's been the Mukava guy right the way through this tournament and it's gone well so far. Do I get some credit? Yes.

44:19Catherine Whitaker: Absolutely. Hey! If I get Noska for credit. Sure.

44:26Matt Roberts: Who picked Ostapenko and Aravalo for the mixed? They can have some credit.

44:31Catherine Whitaker: David. No, I didn't. Oh, you. You did, I think. One of us did. It wasn't me. I'm sure that was a very informed... We definitely went Storm Hunter, didn't we?

44:38Matt Roberts: I think I did go for Ostapenko, yeah. Big surprise.

44:45Matt Roberts: Yeah. Can we go for TK Maxx here? Anyone having that as a headline? No? Because she did have the TK Maxx patch back. I think you won that one as well because I said she'd have none of these things. Oh, well, TK Maxx were back in for the final and I bet that's not a decision they regret. Ostapenko and Aravalo, 4-6, 7-5, 6-2, the comeback win in the mixed doubles final over Storm Hunter and Mark Polmans. Yelena Ostapenko truly having the last laugh over Laura Siegmund. by lifting the trophy.

45:19Catherine Whitaker: She took over that final.

45:22Matt Roberts: Yeah.

45:23Catherine Whitaker: Like, they were down, and suddenly Ostapenko got those ground strokes firing. Nearly took Polmans' head off at one stage. Yeah.

45:31Matt Roberts: That is her signature move at this point, isn't it?

45:33Catherine Whitaker: Very impressive comeback, and very nice scenes with Aravalo's son, Oh, yes. Marcelito, coming on the court at the end. That was lovely. He's the first ever women and champion from El Salvador. Oh, brilliant.

45:50Matt Roberts: Game set and max, says Hannah. And that is game set and max for the partner, isn't it? She's won it there. Excellent, excellent stuff. Congratulations to Ostopenko and Aravalo. We have Harry Heliovaro and Henry Patton to play. Marcelo Aravalo and Matej Pavic in the men's doubles final. They both won through their semifinals today. And we had a shock in the women's doubles. Katarina Siniarkova and Taylor Townsend, the top seeds, lost today to Kristina Medinovic and Guo Han Yu, the 10th seed, in the quarterfinals. Good news for Defani. Phew.

46:32Catherine Whitaker: Good.

46:32Matt Roberts: Clears the path for Defani.

46:34Catherine Whitaker: Excellent. They're first up in the semis tomorrow.

46:38Matt Roberts: Yes, they play Shuko Aoyama and Unshuo Liang.

46:43Catherine Whitaker: This one's going to open the floodgates, isn't it, David? Once they get one. Yeah, yeah.

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47:58Matt Roberts: Shall we have a look at tomorrow's order of play if I can find it? I think we all know what's on there, but I'll get it up in front of me anyway, because it is actually somewhat unexpected. Maybe not the matches themselves that are on centre court, but the order in which they're happening starts at 1.30, starting with Arthur Ferry against Alexander Zverev. And second on is Yannick Sinner against Novak Djokovic. Now, obviously, Novak Djokovic and Yannick Sinner, the two semi-finalists that played their quarterfinals the day before, Ferry and Zverev they played theirs on Tuesday so have had the extra day of rest and it tends to be customary though obviously not official policy that the players that booked their spots first play the first semi-final this has been changed lots of people were quite shocked by that I mean I was surprised I didn't feel any type of way about it personally but I it certainly was a surprise when that order of play landed obviously a lot of speculation about what factors might have gone into that whether it was the BBC asking for something because they've got the World Cup game

49:14Catherine Whitaker: which is an 8 p.m kickoff tomorrow night yeah correct my Spain Spain and obviously if you're

49:24Matt Roberts: playing the second semi-final that would almost certainly at least partially clash speculation about whether ESPN, for whom Arthur Ferry, bless him, not as big a deal as he is here in the UK. The emphasis for them, I would expect very much to be on Sina Djokovic and the later slot is far better for a US audience, whether that was the biggest sort of push for this. And then also player requests. I mean, it is going to be hot and unpleasant again tomorrow when Yannick Sinner is not going to love that. And playing later, it'll still be hot, but it'll be better and probably the second half of the match will be under the roof.

50:02Matt Roberts: What do you think was going on, David? Well, I don't think that this was a BBC call. They were in a position whereby there are pros and cons to Ferry playing first and second. I think Ferry is probably their priority as a British player and he really has moved the needle here. I think there were nearly four million people watching in the afternoon yesterday when Ferry played his match. There'll be more tomorrow. And the benefits from their perspective of him going in the first match are that it doesn't clash with the football and it can go on BBC One, which is the bigger channel, the bigger audience.

50:41However, if he were to be in the second match and later on, it would be in prime time when all people are home from work and kids are home from school and people have finished for the day, more people certainly. So there are definitely benefits on both sides, but then you would be clashing with the World Cup match and the BBC are screening that World Cup match. So I think the BBC were happy enough, basically, is my understanding, either way. But there was definitely preference shown from other broadcasters for this order. And as you rightly say, Sina Djokovic internationally is the one. That is the one that people want to have in their best airtime.

51:24and if it's later in the day here, certainly in the US, it's more in the middle of their day and more in the afternoon. So that works for them. Player-wise, I find it very interesting. I think that there probably were requests that went in. Players put requests in all the time and I could imagine that the two voices that would have been heard here are Sinner and Djokovic's. I don't think anybody's going to listen to Ferry if he did ask for anything. I don't really think anybody's going to listen to Zverev if he asked for something, you know, they'd listen, but they ain't going to act upon it.

51:57Matt Roberts: Yeah, they'd politely say, good to know, Arthur. We'll bear that in mind. And actually, when I initially sort of mentioned it on commentary to Leon Smith about this order, my sense initially was that he wasn't overjoyed about it, really, because obviously this is a lot less recovery time. He then said, look, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter either way. So, you know, OK. But Djokovic, would he have asked for a later match? That's an interesting question. He doesn't love the heat. And if he can get it indoors with still conditions late on and be able to bring out the level of the Australian Open, that would probably suit him more.

52:41But for Yannick Sinner, although it's going to start very hot, it's probably going to end a lot cooler. That might benefit him as well.

52:50Matt Roberts: I think the single biggest player benefit here is to Yannick Sinner. I don't think Novak Djokovic in isolation would love playing in the conditions that we had today. And I think if it weren't Yannick Sinner and we hadn't seen what we saw in Australia and in Paris and Shanghai, etc. Djokovic would like the extra rest and the slightly cooler conditions and the potential for it to finish under the roof. I think bigger than all of those things is the fact that you're playing the guy that has the big problem.

53:30Matt Roberts: So I think Djokovic should not have requested the latest start. I'm quite sure that Sinner did. I feel pretty convinced that ESPN did as well. And that was probably the single biggest factor. But I would love to know what Novak Djokovic wanted. And look, whatever he pushed for, I'm sure he was right. Like, I doubt he would get that wrong. And I'm sure he's smart, isn't he? He would have weighed it all up. But from the outside, knowing what I know, I would be telling him to push for playing in the heat of the day and trying to expose Yannickson as a killer's heel.

54:10Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, look, I agree with you. That was my take as well. I just think maybe these greats think about themselves. And Djokovic is thinking, well, I'd rather play later because that's going to bring out my best tennis. That's where I'm going to feel most comfortable on court. Which he's proved he can win with. Totally.

54:36Matt Roberts: But Juan Manuel Sarundolo has proved what you need to win with.

54:41Catherine Whitaker: There are two ways. Yeah. Yeah. But the thing is, that's outside of his control, how Yannick Sinner feels in the heat. And Djokovic wants to control what he can. But I also think it's probably mostly an ESPN thing. But actually, I'm with David. I think it helps Ferry. I really do. I was very worried about what we described happened with Kostyuk and Noskova today. I was worried about that for Ferry. that place was deserted and there was no energy in the building for the first 45 minutes of the match and that hurt Kostchuk probably I think it wouldn't have been as bad because for a Brit I think people might have made more of an effort to get back out there but if you'd have had four and a half hours of Sinner and Djokovic there's no way it would have been packed if Sinner and Djokovic has gone anything over like two and a half hours the one that comes back to mind is Songer against Ferrer at the French Open when they followed Djokovic and Nadal onto the court and the French crowd needed a break.

55:47Catherine Whitaker: Yeah. And they had no energy to... And poor old Joe Wilfred Sungra had been waiting backstage all these hours, watching the telly, wondering when he's going on. I think it is far harder.

55:57Matt Roberts: And that wasn't in heat like this. And sorry to bang on about it, but it is really bad now. It is like it was in Paris. It's... Yeah. We're suddenly singing the praises of appliancesdirect.co.uk. Oh, yeah. Is it good? It's great. It's great. Better like the never, right?

56:16Catherine Whitaker: I told you you'd be prepared for the next heat wave.

56:20Matt Roberts: What do we think is going to happen in these two semifinals?

56:25Catherine Whitaker: I do think Zverev's going to win. Matthew's shaking his head. Shaking his head. As he was earlier when I was reading out my stat. Matthew wants to go blonde, you see. Yeah, being one match away from blonde Matthew would be so fun. but I do think Zverev's going to win. I think he's going to show the level. I think Ferry will have a flurry, and four sets wouldn't surprise me. I think he's playing really well, Ferry, and deserves to be here, but Zverev's steadiness over five sets, that big serve, his experience, I do back him. David? Yeah, I feel so. Virtually word for word You're on your own Matthew

57:13Matt Roberts: On your own What about the second semi-final?

57:19I think Sin is going to win I think Sin is going to win

57:23Catherine Whitaker: And do you think Djokovic is going to Because I think Sin is going to win as well But I think Djokovic might find his level for a period But not be able to sustain it like Australia I think it will be closer than some of his matches he's had with Sinner before this year's Australian Open, but I don't think he'll pull off the Australian Open again. I think it could be like the Australian Open final.

57:46Matt Roberts: Do you think Sinner will play better than we've seen so far? Yeah.

57:49Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I do as well. I think it's almost one of the first times we will have seen him searching for his level and then finding it. I don't think we're going to go the whole of this tournament without him finding it.

58:02Matt Roberts: Matthew, who do you think Ferry's going to be playing in Sunday's final? he's thinking folks doesn't work brilliantly doesn't work brilliantly does it somebody not on camera being silent can we have your verdict while we wait or not yet I think Zverev I agree I think I have a flurry I can see four sets I think a a fairy flurry sounds like an ice cream a flurry isn't that's not a nautical term is it that doesn't quite we can workshop that um and i think

58:46Matt Roberts: i'm so tempted to go for djokovic you know well do then but i don't i think if actually my my life depended on it i would go for sinner he's 39 i can't be picking a 39 year old And he played over five hours. In 36 degrees over the world number one. But he's that guy who won 24 of these. I think I give Djokovic slightly more chance than you do on the basis of what you two have just said. I give him quite a big chance. Do you?

59:14Catherine Whitaker: I think it'll be a close match. Matthew, have we... You've decided?

59:20Matt Roberts: Tennis will win. No, not an answer I'm willing to accept. Tennis will win. I mean, that's what he said. You can't do an insane pick in one, an insanely bold pick in one semi-final and then a tennis ball win in the other. I think Sinner. Sinner. Yeah. That's how close it is. Matthew took 10 minutes to come to that.

59:40Catherine Whitaker: By the way, great story from Tom Kershaw in The Times today about Ferry having a procedure to stop the nosebleeds. He had it after the Burgs match, I believe. Yes. During this tournament.

59:55Matt Roberts: Yeah, I did speak to official doctor of the tennis podcast, Felicity, who also gave Matt some concussion based medical advice earlier this week. Shout out, Felicity. Thanks, Felicity. It's not that big of a deal. No. The concussion or the... She was very worried about the concussion. I was going to say. Very, very worried. Have you checked on Matt? Have you checked on Matt as he texted you in the last hour? No, but I think it's just sticking a... She called it a silver something. They do it in, it's not a big deal, I don't think.

1:00:29Catherine Whitaker: But better than having nosebleeds. I just think sorting it out mid-tournament is quite a good thing to do. Because he said he'd had nosebleeds in his career, so he's made a decision, this tournament, I've got to sort it out.

1:00:45Matt Roberts: She also said this might be too much medical context here, but she also said that nosebleeds are big this season. She said she's had more people coming to the surgery for nosebleeds than ever before. It's a very Arthur Ferry thing to do, isn't it? Just sort it out. Just sort it out. Yeah, procedure. Mid-tournament. It's not a problem. I thought I'd do that, and I did it. If I know Arthur Ferry, David, and I think we do by now, this is very typical Arthur. Do you think he'll get a set? Do you think he'll make it fun? You're not so sure, are you? I think he'll get to a tie-break. Okay. And then he won't win it.

1:01:21Matt Roberts: That is textbook plucky Brit stuff, isn't it? That hurts me to say, but I think that's because I like him and I love watching him. And you'll be commentating on him? Yes, yes. And also I want to be able to do a fourth set because I do set two and four if you get a fourth. I thought you said a full set. No, a fourth. I want to do a fourth set. You'll get that in set two. I'm just being completely selfish here. I just want to do two sets, all right? Okay, and if you want to hear David which trust me you do BBC Radio 5 Live. To be fair, I did get my fair share today, didn't I? I got to do the first and third sets of golf against Muka today and that was an absolute privilege and pleasure OK so that's tomorrow we'll be back again not before time of 8pm for tomorrow, I won't be waiting for Ylenos Topenko tomorrow so that's something I suspect the tennis will take us up to and maybe even beyond 8pm, we might be coming we could be looking at curfew we might be coming right off the back of the matches which is always fun, isn't it not the lack of sleep but the adrenaline that's fun uh hello to phoebe our wimbledon mascot who is doing what i hope to be doing very soon sleeping off a day of excitement look at that look at that lovely face she looks like she's that's what billy jean looks like when she does her little running in her sleep and the sort of little little yelps like she's chasing squirrels in her sleep uh hello to bodie maizey and roger our mascots hello to our top folks and executive producers Greg, Chris and Jeff.

1:02:53Matt Roberts: Let's have some shout outs Matt.

1:02:55Catherine Whitaker: We have Henrietta Bradshaw. Hi Henrietta.

1:02:59Matt Roberts: Hello Henrietta.

1:03:00Catherine Whitaker: This is a gift shout out from her sister Amelia.

1:03:03Matt Roberts: Aww.

1:03:05Catherine Whitaker: So nice. And they say we are more like tennis twins than just sisters. We follow the tennis podcast team around going to the live show in London before Wimbledon last year and attending both Wimbledon history conferences.

1:03:20Matt Roberts: well presumably we met Henrietta and Amelia then yes I believe I believe you may even have chatted about dogs in the museum afterwards oh I remember that I was gonna before you said in the museum I was gonna say that doesn't narrow it down for me you want to jog Catherine's memory just reminder of when she looked at dogs well no that doesn't help at all because happens all the time a lot people quite often start conversations with me just with their phone already open with their animals. I know, but you do seem to be able to pick them out of a line-up. Yeah. All of them. No, I do remember chatting in the museum about dogs.

1:03:52Matt Roberts: That was lovely.

1:03:53Catherine Whitaker: And Henrietta and Amelia were at Wimbledon, I think, on the 1st of July last week.

1:03:59Matt Roberts: Aww.

1:04:00Catherine Whitaker: So I hope you had a great day.

1:04:01Matt Roberts: Very Jane Austen-y names, as Hannah is pointing out in the chat. Love that. Hello, Henrietta and Amelia.

1:04:09Catherine Whitaker: And finally, we have Hamish Fraser. Hello, Hamish. Hello, Hamish. He says, I listen with my wife, Christy, and they are from, well, I've got written here, Sydney, Melbourne. Maybe Hamish is from Sydney and Christy's from Melbourne. Australia. Australia.

1:04:33Matt Roberts: Tennis Hamish is, don't know why I've gone down that cold as that. Neil Fraser, for the surname. Very good. And Australian. Very good. Hamish, please accept that.

1:04:45Catherine Whitaker: And Hamish says, We stumbled across the pod a few years back now, but neither of us can remember how or when. It's fine. To Christy's internal embarrassment, I'm a shameless promoter and have managed to get selfies with David and Matt at the last two Australian Opens.

1:04:59Matt Roberts: Awesome. Just me to go.

1:05:01Catherine Whitaker: We'll be at the Australian Open in 2027 and have booked tickets for the French in 2027 to complete our Grand Slash. Brilliant.

1:05:11Matt Roberts: Incredible. anybody wants to shamelessly promote the tennis podcast by telling everybody they know that's fine hamish christy hopefully i can get a selfie with you maybe they actually don't want a selfie with me just i'm gonna suspect they doubt like david with the um the scots guy who was shouting across the roof at john mackina and i thought he was here for us turned out not there was a brief moment before recording yesterday where david introduced himself to people who had no idea by the end of it I think they were big fans

1:05:43Matt Roberts: turns out they were here to heckle John McEnroe who would have thought it yeah absolutely okay Hamish Christie Amelia and Henrietta thank you ever so much for being friends of the tennis podcast if you would like to become a friend of the tennis podcast then the link is in our show notes we will be back tomorrow folks after those two blockbuster men's singles semifinals not before 8pm keep an eye across YouTube hit that like and subscribe button subscribe to our newsletter link also in the show notes keep across our socials at the Tennis Podcast on Instagram and you will know when we are going live after those men's singles semi-finals we are part of the Athletic Podcast Network thank you for listening and watching and being with us tonight on day 11 of Wimbledon 2026 we'll see you tomorrow

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