Live from Wimbledon Day 13 - Noskova conquers nerves to win it all

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1:14Matt Roberts: Hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast live from Wimbledon and presented by Barclays, the official banking partner of Wimbledon. We are coming to you tonight just minutes after the speeches and the ceremony on Centre Court have concluded following an absolutely wild ride of a women's final here at Wimbledon. Wild build up for us also to this show. Ted being chucked across the desk just just moments ago. But the wild ride of the women's final won by newly anointed Wimbledon champion Linda Nozkova. we sometimes hold back a bit from using the word choke on this show because it's just such a brutal and damning word but i do feel comfortable declaring today that in the words of the great mary carrillo linda nozkova choked and won anyway which is pretty much the greatest feat in sport or

2:14David Law: in life isn't it to fall over and get back up yeah i think if you don't in inverted commas choke in the wimbledon final when you're trying to serve it out when you've never done it before in your life when it's the biggest moment that you've ever had in your young life and it's certainly the biggest tennis moment that you'll ever have i think i think it would be more surprising really it really would and and i think it's the most human thing in the world and the manner in which it happened somewhat forced by her opponent but also the vulnerability on display the the emotions and the nerves and the the fragility and then the strength the strength to accept it to suffer to reset and to go again and put yourself in the in the firing line of it all over again I mean it could have happened twice on the same day for her and she banished it in the same day I think it's um it was a choke and it was the most glorious of redemptions it was a

3:17Catherine Whitaker: three-act play this tennis match yeah it was a it was a straightforward 6-2 6-3 win with an aberration in the middle wasn't it like no wonder we weren't sure what was going to happen in this match because it sort of in the end everything happened you know was is Mukova going to look spent yeah she absolutely is is Noskova gonna bully her with that brilliant secure game that she's got right now yeah she's gonna do that is Noskova gonna get tight in her first Wimbledon Grandstand final yes that is gonna happen as well is Mukova gonna start to outplay her and look like maybe she can win it yes that'll happen too and then you know that all happened and we're in the third set and it was the question is where do we go from here so for for Noskova to ensure that the final set looks so much like the first set after the well yeah choke in the second set when she didn't win a game for about 50 minutes absolutely extraordinary reset feat from Linda Noskova to

4:22Matt Roberts: win this 49 and a half minutes without winning a game for Linda Noskova after having five championship points. I just think that's the comeback of the century, quite frankly. Like, unbelievable stuff, unbelievable mental resilience. And going into that third set, the least likely scenario seemed to me like just a fairly straightforward run-of-the-mill 6-3 set for either of them. And yet that is what Lyndon Oshkovic delivered.

4:53David Law: Yeah, having gone off the court, with her fingers in her ears because she couldn't bear to hear the crowd anymore celebrating her opponents, celebrating her own collapse. And it had happened on two successive changeovers when it was just not slipping away, it was collapsing away. It was just the whole thing was coming apart at the seams for her. And this player who had been so rock steady, who'd been so secure. She did, when she was closing in on victory, what I worried she might do at the start, which was sort of freeze. Again, I do think it's completely understandable that that would happen when it means that much to you.

5:38David Law: But to look like your... I mean, it looked like Jana Novotna that I remember in 1993 who led the final set against Steffi Graf 4-1 and had points for 5-1 and then didn't win another game. it looked like that that that's the sort of uh mental collapse that was happening emotional collapse um and she she left the court and I felt so sorry for her at that point I'm thinking okay well no matter what we've got an incredible final this is a wonderful final and I don't mind who wins I have you know at the start of the match I emotionally was sort of drawn to Muka of her being 29 and having had all these injury problems and Noskova's young and she's going to get other chances but when somebody goes through that sort of hell on court honestly I wanted to cry for her really and and I was sort of just hoping that she didn't just tail spin away and I think that that would have been a completely understandable thing to have happened in the third set because Mukova had started really badly in this match and was playing poorly frankly and being bossed and then she found a game and for Noskova to lose her game at the same time as Muka found hers and then to still go off the court and find a way to reverse that I think is one of the great feats that you'll see all year in tennis um absolutely hats off to Noskova for doing that because I don't even think that Muka played really badly in the final set I think she played fine

7:15Matt Roberts: yeah it was it was one sloppy ish game wasn't it at the start of the third set that proved decisive uh haven't had the chance to fact check this just come in on the chat megan reporting that espn had said that when noskova i think they've already spoken to linda noskova and she perhaps told them this said that when she went to the bathroom between the second and third sets that she stared at the trophy i don't know if the trophy is in the loos in the wimbledon clubhouse or just

7:44Catherine Whitaker: The Venus Rosewater dish deserves better.

7:46Matt Roberts: I assume on route to the loos. If it's not obvious, we've never been into that very privileged area of the clubhouse. But that's quite a baller thing to do, isn't it? To stare down the trophy kind of in your lowest ebb.

8:03Catherine Whitaker: Wow. It's like there were some grandsons that put the trophy sort of on the court, didn't they? During the match. yeah it is it is one of the great resets that I've ever seen yeah Pam would love this loved she would have loved it and that's it because like she had the game to win this she absolutely had the game to win this match she she had shown that by putting herself in the position that she was in 6-2-5-2 I agree with you I think Mukovo was it seems to me like everything had caught up a bit with Mukova. To me, she looked a bit sluggish and a step slow, and she wasn't cracking the forehand in a way that she has been all tournament.

8:49Catherine Whitaker: We've talked so much about it. It was like, well, where is that shot? But similarly, Noskova was playing like a dream to begin with. It felt like she raised her level for this final. We were worried about potential nerves. Well, she actually upped it at the start of this match through the first half of it. and there were so many moments where she was kind of out mukovering mukover. There was one nasty, nasty slice backhand with two hands. She hit it as like a short slice drop shot combination, having done a drop shot lob earlier in the rally.

9:23David Law: I mean, to do a drop shot, bring your opponent in who scoops it up really well and you to do a lob volley over her head from ankle height and then she gets to that and puts a good ball in and your put away is not to blast the ball, it is to slice it past the arch slicer. I mean, that is serious talent and understanding of what's required. And I think the thing is, until she got nervous, her touch was exemplary. She seemed to come out and have her touch and timing from ball one.

9:56Catherine Whitaker: And that's her superpower, really, the combination of power and touch. it's such a weapon to have at your disposal because she does have big power that can knock you back and the strike I think of her ball is just hard to deal with but it's so underrated the touch she has and she had it beautifully combining and I don't know about you but I thought it was over I really did I didn't sense the Mukava comeback at all No You know when it was

10:29David Law: She was running out of time for a start

10:30Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I mean, Mukova serving down 2-5, that was when the first match points came. There were three of them in that game. And Noskova hit two returns out on the first two match points. And then Mukova had a lovely drop shot to save the third. But even when Mukova held then, that was the first point where I thought, OK, this could be shifting. But even when she held Mukova, she got this enormous ovation. And she didn't really respond to it. I still thought, oh, she's not got much in the tank here. Like, she's going to need something from down the other end in this next game. And then that 5-3 game is...

11:08David Law: It's one of the great games.

11:09Catherine Whitaker: One of the great games. I mean, the perfect example of why we must never lose Deuce. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because this was going back and forth, back and forth. Noskova could find the serve to save the break point. She kept doing it. She kept going down break point Noskova and hitting an ace.

11:29David Law: Particularly out wide. Wide. Out wide to the advantage course. Usually the one I've been going on the back is the swinging slice serve the other way. This one she was hitting flat at an angle. And she would always win. She won three of those points in a row. Well, two of them with aces and one of them with a totally unreturnable serve. And meanwhile, the other side, Mookova's playing lights out from the baseline and just keeping it going. It was incredible.

11:54Catherine Whitaker: And then the one time Noskova does get to match point on the ad side, she aborts her ball toss and hits a double fold. And at that moment, that was when I really thought, oh, my goodness, like the wheels might be about to come off here. And when she didn't get out of that game, double faulting again on break point, that was then when she walked to the chair for the first time and put her fingers in her ears, 5-4 down. That was the moment where I thought, oh, dear. we are witnessing potentially like a huge choke here she still had a match point in the next game with Mukova again serving and that was the one that Mukova saved incredibly well she dug out this low ball and hit a forehand winner off it whipped it for a winner and held that game Mukova and got it to 5-all and then by that point Noskova was really really hitting a lot of unforced errors and missing and the last two games of that set went by pretty quickly.

12:54Catherine Whitaker: And yeah, we just witnessed in that period one of the most dramatic sequences in a final that I can remember.

13:03Matt Roberts: Just going back to that first set for a moment, it was pretty shocking how poor Mukova was, right? Like, I was slightly worried about her physically just because of how she was at the end of that golf match, how she was in the press conference, did place a bit of doubt in my mind. She was tetchy in that press conference, indicating maybe she was a bit anxious about how she was feeling and what that would mean for the final. I don't know. That isn't what she said in press, but it was certainly a tetchier version of Mookiver than I was expecting. And we don't know yet whether it was nerves or exhaustion or a niggle or a combination of any or all of those things, but it was such a shadow of the Karolina Mukova we were expecting, even allowing for nerves in our expectations.

13:56Matt Roberts: She was so sluggish. The forehand was totally missing. I don't think she trusted herself to do the slice and dice touch game, so she was relying on points in the back of the court, and she had this forehand that was just a go-to place for errors for Linda Nozgova, who was so serene. seemingly so serene down the other end of the court. I hadn't been expecting that from Muka for David.

14:26David Law: No, and it makes me wonder, when I think back to some of the things we've witnessed over the last couple of months, where somebody has come through just an ageing match and then has taken a long time to sort of wake up in the next one. You know, obviously, Minsk is a seriously extreme example of that. Five points in the set against, was it? Alex Dimonor, after he got carried off the court. Flavio Caballi losing seven games in a row and then sort of waking up this tournament and playing really well. I don't know, but I can definitely think that that might be something there. But I also think just sort of starting off a match, the biggest match, well, one of the biggest matches of your career, with the stillness that you told us about, Matt, from last year, Catherine and I were out there at the start of the match.

15:20David Law: I was there. I mean, you know, I didn't want to breathe because I felt like I was going to put people off or something. You know, it just feels really, you're quite clenched. You know, there's so much silence. And I think it would be... But the thing is, when we did our preview show today, I was expecting that from Noshkova. And that's not what happened at all. She looked as though she was just playing in the park, the way she came out. so maybe she was impacted a bit and maybe she just sort of warmed up and loosened up Mukova but the way it looked as the match has gone on and how well she ended up playing because honestly around 5-3 she couldn't from then on for the rest of the set she couldn't miss a ball every ground strike even when she's on the stretch hitting it hard she's got just the right amount of loop on it to put it just inside the baseline and so I suspect it was more nerves based but yeah it could be it could be a combination but it was a shock to me as well I did I thought surely the one who's going to feel that is Noshkova more than Mukova but I was wrong

16:28Catherine Whitaker: it's interesting when you think about how Mukova played her other grandstand final as well and actually quite similar in terms of the in terms of its match arc you know like she had this crazy semi-final at the French Open a few years ago when she beat Sabalenka, saved a match point and then was quite flat at the start of the French Open final. I think she was 6-2-3 down to Sviante, which is eager Sviante in a French Open final and I think Sviante was brilliant, but similar. I feel like we'll be saying, but it's Linda

17:03Matt Roberts: Nozkova in a Wimbledon final at some point.

17:05Catherine Whitaker: It took her a while to get going and she was actually closer to beating beating Svantec than she was beating Noska. I think she went up a break in the final set of that one, but it did take her a moment then. And I sometimes, I always read into players who've beaten a series of great players to get to a final. I always take that as a tremendous positive. And of course it is. It shows you're playing at this level and everything, but I think it takes a lot out of you. And yeah, I think it just all maybe caught up with Muka for a little bit today at the start of the match. the road she's had to get here.

17:42Catherine Whitaker: You know, like stressful matches against big players. We talk about how these players have to raise their game to play the big players. Mukova has not been able to coast through this tournament at all. I think it's deceiving because her tennis is so kind of stylish. It doesn't maybe look like it's taking that much out of her. But I think, to me, my read on it was that she needed a spark of energy somewhere in this match. And because she came out a bit flat, a combination of everything she'd been through to get there, and I'm sure nerves as well of that first Wimbledon final. But then when she did find the spark, she played really well, as David said, for that little spell.

18:25Catherine Whitaker: Obviously helped out by Noskova's nerves. But then I felt like she wasn't able to then push on again in the third, you know. So, yeah, it'd be interesting to hear what she says in the press conference. But it felt like fatigue. And again, I think about Anissa Mova last year. She talked about how tired she felt on Wimbledon finals day, having won a dramatic semifinal. Obviously, it was nerves as well. But she said, I was drained and exhausted. and it's a lot which just

18:58Matt Roberts: it's always hard to bounce back from a big win let alone to bounce back to your summit

19:07Catherine Whitaker: so again credit to Noskova for handling all of that because she's experiencing similar things

19:13Matt Roberts: it will be interesting to hear what both of them but I think in particular given how this match went how it started to hear what Mookova had to say we heard what she had to say on the court and it I mean, she was astonishingly composed and eloquent in that speech, even delivered some comic timing, like perfect comic timing with congratulations to my ex-friend, Linda. Just sublime. But it was quite onzjaburi, wasn't it, in terms of levels of heartbreak?

19:47David Law: Yeah, those two speeches were... I mean, I had a tear in my eye after Noshka. but yeah Muka she does make you feel for her good, bad, everything really I don't know she's got a really nice way about her which was probably why yesterday's press conference was a bit jarring really because she just wasn't in the mood really for anything or two days ago but maybe that's what happens when you've just been pushed to the limit the way she was but yeah it was great speech it does make me feel a little differently about her future prospects yeah in terms of I guess I was somebody who turned around after Jabir the second time and just thought no no I believe she will do this I mean Kim Closter's did lead you down that path Yes, but I do think emotion ends up talking in those situations.

20:50David Law: And look, I'm a massive believer in Mukava's game. And a lot of it is if she stays fit this, if she stays fit that. Well, that's a big question mark, isn't it? Because of her past history. It's for anybody, but particularly her. But I also think that is two finals now that she hasn't won. French Open and here, 29. I think there are more chances in there for her for sure she's definitely got the game, the base game I think she showed that and she can kind of compete on all the surfaces so that gives you a lot of chances but the field is deep the field is really good and you also have to find a way to to not go a set and 3-love down or a set and 5-2 down before you start finding your very best you've got to figure that out in the big final easier to say tough to do

21:46Matt Roberts: Does it affect how you view Mukovi's chances going forward not the fact that she lost this but the way that she lost it

22:00Catherine Whitaker: Not really because I wouldn't have said oh she'll definitely win majors after this I think even had she won it I wouldn't necessarily have thought oh, this is going to open the floodgates. As David said, the field's deep. She's had injury concerns. She's never felt like a lock for a major to me, just given everything.

22:22Matt Roberts: I mean, the field's deep from Czechia alone.

22:25Catherine Whitaker: True.

22:26Matt Roberts: There's Valantova, there's Bartonkova coming through. I mean, those are just the ones that we know about. Presumably there are 15-year-olds coming through.

22:34Catherine Whitaker: I believe some Czechs were in the junior girls doubles final. Of course. Watch out for them. Yeah. I think she'll... I mean, look, she ended on a defiant note, didn't she, of her speech, which I liked, you know. She was determined and saying, I'm going to come back here. And I think she will. I think she's going to keep giving herself shots. But whether she actually wins one, I think, is hard to say.

23:09Matt Roberts: what about Linda Nozkova we have had 10 different Wimbledon champions in 10 years and 10 different conversations about whether they will win multiple Wimbledons and at the time because we've just watched them win a Wimbledon and it's felt like well yeah of course but it's not as simple as that is it she's 21

23:33Catherine Whitaker: she's by far the youngest

23:36Matt Roberts: of those that we've

23:38Catherine Whitaker: had that discussion about yeah well she's the youngest winner since Kvitova who then did go on to win another one um and I think she's you know she's got the game most suited to grass I would say I think there's been a few there's been a few in there who have been quite quite surprising champions Shontek Shontek for example um Vondrosheva has never really done anything on grass before she won it here whereas Noskova, you know I think everyone who watched that game could tell you that does suit this surface.

24:15Matt Roberts: So does she feel to you like somebody who's always going to have a chance at Wimbledon and will probably maybe win more Wimbledons but not necessarily be the same threat elsewhere?

24:26Catherine Whitaker: I think she can be a threat on the hard courts Yeah? Yeah, I do Look, I don't really necessarily see her as winning a handful or more majors. But if you ask me, will Noskova win another major, I know it's always easy after they've just won one, but right here, right now, I would say yes.

24:50Matt Roberts: What holds you back? David, I don't know if you agree. Feel free to disagree or answer this same question. But what holds you back from saying Linda Noskova could become world number one now and be dominant and win other slams? in the near future. What holds you back from that?

25:09Catherine Whitaker: I think part of it is the fact that I think this is a game that requires a lot of confidence. I think she's in a great run of form at the moment. She felt dangerous coming in to this tournament. But we have seen enough of Noskova to know that it can go off. That's interesting. I also think there are still bits of the movement that can be exploited and that kind of thing. And the field's deep, as David said. It's really hard to win a lot of majors. But she's very good. She's very good.

25:53Matt Roberts: The confidence and form thing is interesting, isn't it? Because obviously she's the first champion here that's won a warm-up tournament since Sharapova.

26:02Catherine Whitaker: 04 yeah

26:03Matt Roberts: it's been a long time Matthew would like everybody to know that he got that in the quiz earlier it took him a while but he did get it he's fist pumping behind the camera I was setting up what quiz is this just just who was the last person who was the last female player to win Wimbledon having won a warm up event oh right and it was Sharapova who won Birmingham Birmingham in 20

26:30David Law: 2004

26:31Matt Roberts: I got that

26:32David Law: Yeah. How'd I got that? Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing her now face some of the rest of this deep field on hard courts. I want to see her against Sabalenka, Sviante, Goff. You know, I know we've seen it before, but when you've got one of these under your belt. Yeah, that's it.

26:51Catherine Whitaker: We don't know the effect of being a Grand Sam champion. She might, she might.

26:56Matt Roberts: This might be all, this might sort of fuel her confidence.

26:59Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, it might unleash her. She might be even better than I realise.

27:01Matt Roberts: slow release carbohydrates now in terms of in terms of confidence you know hannah in the chat is surprised there isn't like 12 in a row type chat about noskova off the back of this run in

27:12Catherine Whitaker: this performance i have to i have to hand that over to david well i mean i haven't got a pint in front of me no listen i definitely feel like i understand it's a bit like that

27:25David Law: light bulb moment you had a year ago i don't feel like i've properly watched noskova until this week and then maybe that's a dereliction of duty and it's not that i haven't seen her play but i really get the game now i understand why she's special why because it's such an incredible combination of power and finesse really does have good hands there were some things that mukova was throwing in there that she was just dealing with you know whether it was slicing back a slice with even more cut on it. And picking things up off her toes

28:01Matt Roberts: so she didn't get forced back. Once Mugov found her baseline game she held her ground and she gets deep in the knees.

28:11David Law: I said last night that she's sort of quietly devastating like a quiet killer. And it was even more apparent to me today because I was talking to Christopher Clary, the former correspondent of the New York Times who's seen a lot of players the last 30 years in his role.

28:32Matt Roberts: I sat behind his hat. You did? Nice hat. Lovely Panama hat to sit behind.

28:40David Law: I was slouching because I was worried about people behind me.

28:43Matt Roberts: I was sort of leaning on David like this to peer around the hat. Anyway. But we

28:51David Law: We were just talking about her game, and I was really quite taken aback by it, you know, what it could do to opponents. And he was saying, you know, it's kind of almost similar to Mukova, but maybe not just as elegant. You know, it's not kind of got the pizzazz to it in the same way, but it's so effective, and you don't hear her. I said to him you don't get this visceral feeling watching her because there's not it's not accompanied by sound either from she doesn't grunt when she hits tennis balls it doesn't even sound loud off the strings when she hits the ball there's not this popping thunderclap sound but you don't hear her footwork at all really either she's just a sort of quiet player and then you suddenly realise you've just lost the game if you're her opponent.

29:49David Law: And you must wonder, well, that didn't look like you were trying to hit that hard. Why have I just lost the point?

29:55Matt Roberts: It doesn't look to me. Oh, here we go. Go on, guys. We'll be closing around 15 minutes. Please make your way to the exit gates and take all your belongings with you. We hope you've enjoyed your day here at Wimbledon and wish you a pleasant and safe journey home. Thank you.

30:19Matt Roberts: Marks out of 10? Marks out of 10? Nine. I think that's generous, but I will take it.

30:29Catherine Whitaker: I would say seven.

30:31Matt Roberts: Okay.

30:32Catherine Whitaker: I was worried about six.

30:33Matt Roberts: It was a generous three the other night, so on we go. We've got one more chance to hit a 10.

30:38Catherine Whitaker: I thought you wished people a brave journey home.

30:42Matt Roberts: But sometimes public transport is tough. Good luck on TFL, everyone. where were we David? I was going to say to my eye which is very much untrained but technically Nostovir looks so sound I'm not sure you'd change anything technically about that game

31:04Catherine Whitaker: and to me probably her biggest strength which we probably should have mentioned before this is the serve if you serve like that you give yourself such a platform and the fact that she found it again in the final set you know like that helped her I think settle like I think it it helps you get back on track if you've had a wayward moment like she did if you if you know that okay if I can just go back to focusing on getting my serve in and rolling through my service games it gives you such a platform there's so many players out there who have to battle to hold serve and it causes a lot of stress and she can take that element of the game away which is a great thing to have especially on the WCA tour you know so that is an element that I think does I probably should give more credit to and maybe elevate her even more on my mind because of that because that is a separator that she has from a lot of other players in the field.

32:07David Law: Mukava started to just get onto the slice out wide serve a bit in the second set she sort of started to be ready for it and take an extra step it was quite interesting laura robson

32:17Catherine Whitaker: was saying on the bbc in the first set that she was giving noskova way too much space yeah and

32:22David Law: honestly i i think it's the best slice out wide serve on the tour is it the best serve on tour hers or a back in his i'd still say a back in it because i don't think you get the double faults i don't think you get i don't think it's patchy in the same way it's a different kind of serve But I've never seen any, I mean, those slice-up wide serves, she hits them at 85 miles an hour. Again, it's one of those soft, don't even hear it, and oh dear, I can't reach it serves.

32:50Catherine Whitaker: And again, it's an element that is effective on the grass. You know, the shooting through. Okay, she can get that whip on everything.

32:57Matt Roberts: Usually it's the lefties from the outside, isn't it, that end up getting talked about. But this is a righty from the juice side doing it.

33:03David Law: I can't wait to see her. I'm hardcore.

33:05Matt Roberts: I would have thought that serve would be pretty devastating on a hard court.

33:10Catherine Whitaker: The thing is, I feel like I hope that saying that we think she can win more majors, just not like over five or so, I really don't see that as selling her shorts. That would be a good amount. Only Hannah sees that as selling. If you've won three or four majors, you're a hell of a... Sabalenka's won four. and think how much winning she's done and dominating of the tour it's so hard to win these if she can win multiple

33:45David Law: it makes you a hell of a player especially with this generation of players up against you but she does fascinate me now because I mean my expectation is that she picks this up and runs with it and becomes more dangerous I think it'll embolden her as a champion, you know, to see herself in that way. But it does also come with a lot, doesn't it? You know, suddenly, you know, hearing from Maja Felinska the other day about just how much her life changed just by reaching the final, that's going to happen to Noshkova now. And so we don't really know how that'll affect her. But I definitely sense somebody who's got real desire to just keep improving and be the best she can be and I think it's a game with enormous potential talking about a Grand Slam champion as having enormous potential but that's how it feels Australia will be interesting won't

34:44Matt Roberts: it because I mean it's quite possible she just carries this on and rides the way through to the US Open but it's also quite possible there is there's a let you know I could see us sort of giving her a free pass for for the US Open but Australian Open like it's enough time I think to have really processed and bedded in to a new status in the tennis world and she has historically played really well in Australia that was her first first big breakthrough I think it really

35:14David Law: suits her down there so I could see she filmed out there yeah yes yeah yeah a couple of years ago

35:22Catherine Whitaker: But that's the thing, which women's major isn't interesting. We're going into the US Open with knowing that two of Sabalenka, Sviontek and Goff this year will go slamless. And if you'd said that at the start of the year, you probably wouldn't have expected it. And we've had Rabatkin a winner major, Andreva. Think of all the majors Andreva's got to win. you know like there's there's not room for these people to win all the majors yeah if if if everybody

35:55David Law: who i've said is going to win x number of majors did what you'd have to have about 12 of them a

35:59Matt Roberts: year yeah i think we've had what we had matt you picked pagula for the us open long ago so that's nailed on yeah anissa mova's gonna win some yeah where this this depth picture is not a great scene for anissa mova is it she's on holiday do we think anissa mova's still gonna win one

36:19Catherine Whitaker: keep the faith I've got the faith

36:22Matt Roberts: that was trotting out a mantra I've got the faith

36:26David Law: yes I wonder what the chat thinks

36:28Matt Roberts: are you worried about how many good players there are

36:34Catherine Whitaker: but there was a lot of good players last year as well and she still got to back to back finals ok

36:40Matt Roberts: it's tough for people like

36:42Catherine Whitaker: I believe mate

36:44Matt Roberts: Paulini isn't it It's tough for like...

36:48Catherine Whitaker: I can't believe Carlini's catching strays again.

36:49Matt Roberts: It's sympathetic strays.

36:51Catherine Whitaker: Right, yeah.

36:53David Law: Yeah, it's tough for everyone. Where did she get to? She got to quarters? Yeah. Had a really good tournament. Good run.

37:03Matt Roberts: Yeah, she had a great tournament, but I'm not sure anybody's picking her to win slams with this depth of field, even if she regains her... There are definitely some players

37:13David Law: that have been part of the conversation in the last two or three years who maybe have had their best opportunity. You know, that does happen.

37:23Matt Roberts: Yeah, and maybe that's Mukova. We don't know yet. Yeah.

37:29David Law: I feel like that is fitness dependent because I think as long as she's fit, that game will stand up for however long she's at full fitness for.

37:39Matt Roberts: I do wonder if the fitness issues play into how she's coming out in these Grand Slam finals like oh my god I'm in a Grand Slam final and my body hasn't fallen apart who knows if this will happen again because I don't trust my body I trust it today but I don't trust it next week or long term I don't mean there's also the age factor to me canister wise I think she's fine because she has spent so much time on the sidelines but i do just wonder if it's like now's the time because my body's in one piece and i never knew if this moment would would come again god the wta tour is bloody great isn't it yeah hell yeah sure is yeah yeah roll on us open let's go

38:31Catherine Whitaker: absolutely that's always end up with that feeling after after a slam when's the next one I can't wait for Cannon.

38:36Matt Roberts: Although you did say the other day, I'm exhausted deep in my bones. How did you put it? In my soul?

38:43David Law: Deeply entrenched. Deeply entrenched. You'd have 10 hours sleep and it hadn't even touched the sides, had it? No.

38:49Matt Roberts: We're still paying for Chicago over here, folks.

38:52David Law: Catherine, before you got here this morning for the previous show, he was preparing for today's final by watching Noshkova against Mukova at the US Open last year. I just said to him, God, I can't wait for the US Open.

39:06Matt Roberts: And what did you say?

39:08David Law: You always say that, David.

39:12Matt Roberts: Yeah, well, nor can I. Roll on the US Open. Did you see Serena Williams doing a cryptic comment on a Carlos Alcaraz post today? Matthew's not into that. You love Serena. Yeah, no, he's over it. I thought she was heavily trying to hint that they might be playing mixed doubles together at the US Open. They not ready, she said, over some Alcaraz sort of comeback material.

39:40Catherine Whitaker: It's like, well, you and Carlos not ready. We not ready.

39:46Matt Roberts: Like, we are really ready.

39:48David Law: She might want to pick somebody who can hit a ball more than on a child's court.

39:54Matt Roberts: Oh, dear. It's a tough scene at the moment.

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42:16Matt Roberts: Now, before the women's singles final on Centre Court, we had the men's doubles final, and that was won for the second time in three years by Henry Patton, the Brit, and his Finnish partner, Harry Helievara. They beat Marcelo Aravalo and Matej Pavic 7-6, 7-6 in the final. And that makes it eight out of nine tie breaks won this tournament for Patton and Helievara. Obviously a British winner on centre court, very popular, great atmosphere. I mean, about as good an atmosphere and a scene as you'll ever see for doubles, really. and the perfect stage for Henry Patton to take the mic in the ceremony and make the point that he is making very clearly and very well at the moment, not just with his excellent Save a Pelker hashtag, but in his speech today to fly the flag for doubles.

43:15Matt Roberts: He said this is a fantastic example of the joy that doubles can bring. we should be growing the sport instead of taking opportunities away. He said more than that, but that was the crux of it. He's emerging, David, as a real ambassador for doubles, quite frankly. In particular ATP doubles, because it is the ATP that is threatening this change. But it feels like he's leading the march here.

43:44David Law: Well, he talks really well. He's clearly a very intelligent guy who knows how to put an argument together and how to speak clearly and sensibly intelligently about it. Plus, most importantly, he's now on the stage a lot because he's winning a lot. You know, he's the number one doubles player in the world alongside in men's tennis, alongside Harry Heliovarra. So he's getting a lot of the microphone. but even so you know it is true that he isn't known the way his wins would make you think somebody would be if they're world number one I mean if you walk down the street people don't know really who he is because the doubles is a bit invisible I'm afraid for the lion's share of the certainly the tennis tour I mean Australia does it really well I think they get interest in doubles um Wimbledon does well as we've seen here today and now they've got the mixed doubles at the US Open but relatively speaking it isn't high profile and I'm I I saw I read somebody make the point that you know when do when do you see some of the spectacular moments of doubles promoted on things like tennis tv on their social media where they do this great job of promoting men's tennis sadly that sadly it's not women's tennis you know that really bothers me but women's tennis is strong enough in it anyway it should be even better but in that regard but it's not but with men's tennis and men's doubles rather it's just not promoted like that at all now would that make all the difference without singles players playing in it i don't know i i i mean i'm afraid that doubles players don't sell tickets.

45:38David Law: Now, some people might argue that a lot of men's singles players don't. I'm sure a lot don't, but a lot do. And from a tournament standpoint, I think that they do struggle with justifying the money spent. But then you look around this tournament and see how many people are enjoying a grounds pass and how much of that is doubles tennis. and if you take all if you take jobs away how many players will be able to justify playing doubles at Grand Slams, that's the problem they may not still be able to be doubles players so I do see both sides of it but I really hats off to him for winning and taking the mic and being prepared to make that stand I think that they've certainly the Tours have got to do a better job than just suddenly telling the players By the way, we're doing this.

46:31David Law: We're cutting half the prize money in half the places in the fields. That doesn't seem right at all. I've been around long enough to have seen the ATP tour more than once say, we're going to put promotion into doubles. We're going to do this. We've hired a doubles marketing person. And it's barely scratched the surface. Due to lack of investment? I don't know, really. I don't know what the answers are, really. I certainly feel strongly about the tennis TV thing. I've always felt incredibly strong that you do need... Talk to Mark Woodford. He used to bristle at the idea of being called a double specialist because he's a tennis player.

47:12David Law: I'd love a combined ranking. I'd love it if it's just never going to happen.

47:18Matt Roberts: We best-of-five tennis the way it is now that's just not going to happen.

47:22David Law: Yeah, it's not. But on the tour, I'd almost like it. If you're going to sign up for singles, you've got to play doubles. but then you're running into well how many doubles players could get in that that draw I know it's not going to happen so I really don't know what the answer is I just don't want to see the double side of the sport disappear altogether and I do feel I do feel for these guys who are experts at this discipline who may struggle yeah

47:52Matt Roberts: absolutely there's probably a whole show in there isn't there kind of debating all of this but yeah wherever you stand on it and i'm still not entirely sure exactly where i do stand on it but i think it's very impressive from henry patton what he's doing and and using his platform here very impressive uh speaking of impressive folks yui komiji completed the career golden slam today uh how did she do it she did it with a six love six love of demolition of the great Dida de Rout. Six love, six love in 48 minutes, I think it was. Now, I mean, I saw the end of this and then went back and watched quite a lot of it to try and understand what on earth went on.

48:38I mean, Kimi-G winning, not a great shock.

48:43Matt Roberts: I think de Rout, she won the French Open title. It seemed like she was back. I think I would have put her as the favourite here, but Camigui was the top seed. This is not a huge shock. The scoreline is a shock, a huge shock. 14 double faults, I think, from De Rote. I do think there might have been some sort of arm-shoulder injury there but it wasn't like she couldn't play. That was not the story today. Camigui was absolutely awesome and she was so emotional in the speech afterwards. I mean, a career golden slam. And it's taken her a long time to do it. This has been a quest. You know, I do love a quest in tennis.

49:24Matt Roberts: And she's finally done it. And she's kind of weathered the Didi de Gute era, which is, yeah, so impressive. I'm thrilled for her. And quite a result in the men's wheelchair doubles final. Alfie Hewitt and Gordon Reid beat Takedo Oda and Gustave Fernandez from a set down 2-6, 6-1, 6-2 in the deciding set. Incredible scenes out on court one where this was played. great crowd in great atmosphere I mean okay it's doubles but they got a win over Tiquito Oda like that's huge in men's wheelchair tennis at the moment and for Alfie Hewitt going into the singles final tomorrow against Tiquito Oda I think having got the better of him on the doubles court will will help him it certainly makes it a bit more interesting he he needs all the edge he can find I think Alfa Hewitt when taking on Taquito Odor he said or Gordon Reid rather said on the court when you've got something the size of Taquito's forehand and the size of Gustavo's biceps it's not easy and yeah do check out Gustav Fernandez's biceps quite something

50:36Catherine Whitaker: and Hewitt's been rocking the sleeveless shirt this tournament hasn't he

50:40Matt Roberts: there's been quite a lot of Yannick Sinner watching Alfie Hewitt in awe content this week from a few days ago on the practice court. I think Sinner was following him onto the same practice court. And this morning, Sinner was in the gym watching the latter stages of the men's doubles final. Yeah, good stuff. That's Michael Shtick walking past us. Former Wimbledon champion. You just don't know who you're going to see up here on the roof. The quad doubles final was won by Guy Sassan and Niels Vink. They beat Sam Schroeder and Jin Woodman 6-2, 6-1. And in terms of the girls' singles final, that was played today.

51:22Matt Roberts: It was the 17-year-old Russian Anna Pushkareva, the 14th seed, who won. She beat the top seed Sun Jinran from China, 6-4 in the third in the final. So those are your names to watch for the future. Pushkareva and Sun Jinran.

51:43David Law: who knows maybe they'll be on a backhand list of the future you know they could end up being

51:48Matt Roberts: roger federer they could be ricardus barankis you just don't know katherine loves an opportunity to get a dig in at ricardus barankis you burned me so bad man you don't forget things like that no push graver is it's a fun son name is good name ai is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the 14500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows, and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most.

52:35Matt Roberts: Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com.

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53:15Matt Roberts: Okay, I think that's it for today, except for, of course, a look ahead to tomorrow, the final day of Wimbledon 2026, and the men's singles final between Yannick Sinner and Alexander Zverev. IBM, is it IBM? They're giving Alexander Zverev the 60 % to 40 % edge in this match.

53:40David Law: Okay.

53:42Matt Roberts: Now, I don't know what goes into what data and what algorithm that is based on. My guess is that that is based on data from the tournament because Zverev has been more impressive. this tournament in his individual matches up until yesterday although it was very impressive yesterday i personally don't find that relevant particularly especially given how how excellent sinner was yesterday but that it can only be based on that right and any algorithm that is using data based on their recent well not even that recent head-to-head or it's either that Or their French Open. Right. Like, it's just, I mean, you can give Zverev a chance, absolutely, but I'm not sure objectively you'd find anybody sane around here saying that Zverev's the favourite.

54:39Catherine Whitaker: No. No, it's absolutely crazy. Matthew?

54:43Matt Roberts: Excuse me, sorry, he's not sane. Not when it comes to predictions.

54:48Catherine Whitaker: Look, I do think he's got a chance, right? He's playing really well. He's serving incredibly well. They've never met on grass, and I don't think that makes a huge difference. I think Yannick Sinner's very, very good on this surface as well. But it's an element that is unknown in their rivalry and their head-to-head. And Zverev, if he doesn't get spooked out by an early break of serve, or Yannick Sinner coming out, hitting the ball really cleanly and doesn't lose belief in the way that he has lost belief in a lot of their recent matches, he can keep this close. You know, even in that Grand Sam final that they played in Australia, which was very one-sided really, there's still a tie-break in there and I would expect Zverev to play better than that and you kind of expect maybe more tie-breaks on grass anyway.

55:46I think it could come down to key moments and coming up with the right shot at the right time.

55:53Catherine Whitaker: But that's still where I give Yannick Sinner the edge. You know, he's done it so many times. And I expect Zverev to play pretty well tomorrow. But I just think that Sinner will raise it when he has to and just have too much. We still haven't seen Zverev win a Grand Slam final by going out there and playing this new brand of tennis and beating one of his really big rivals. He's got the opportunity to do that and prove that tomorrow, but we haven't seen it. So I'm not going to predict it. I'm going to think that given what you said about the way Sinner found his form, that was very convincing to me.

56:39Catherine Whitaker: And I think he can keep that edge that he found against Djokovic and lock in when he needs to from the start. So I'm going to pick Sinner.

56:50Matt Roberts: He's been doing that thing again where he practices against two hitting partners, which is Yannick Sinner down one end and two other humans down the other end, which is quite a flex.

57:02Catherine Whitaker: He also practised on the hard courts after his quarterfinal.

57:06Matt Roberts: And Agassi kind of explained why...

57:12Catherine Whitaker: Why Darren Cahill would have probably wanted him to do that in terms of finding his rhythm and timing.

57:18David Law: Agassi was the first one to do it, that I recall. He didn't play on grass at all before Wimbledon, and then went on one Wimbledon that year in 1992. I think Zverev is going to play well tomorrow, and I think he is going to keep it close. And I think they're going to split the first two sets. Close sets. Either a couple of tie breaks or seven fives. And then I think Sinner is going to pull away.

57:48Catherine Whitaker: So Sinner in four? Yeah. Matt? I think Sinner in four would be my pick as well.

57:55Matt Roberts: Go on then, Matthew. What do you think?

57:57Catherine Whitaker: Sinner in three.

57:58Matt Roberts: Sinner in three, Matthew thinks. Two, two and one. Huge news for Alexandre Sverev fans everywhere.

58:06David Law: He's expecting it to be Conor's McEnroe, 84.

58:09Matt Roberts: This is the guy that after Noskova won the first set and Mukhova's laying an egg out there, sat next to me and he goes, well, if Mukhova's going to win it, she's going to have to do it in three, I reckon.

58:22David Law: And he was right.

58:24Matt Roberts: Yep. These were facts from Matthew. Okay, folks. He did nail it. She had to do it in three and she couldn't and didn't. So congratulations to Linda Nozkova. So says Phoebe, our Wimbledon mascot. Like all of us, she's still a bit too warm, but very pleased for Linda Nozkova. She always looks pleased, Phoebe, no matter how warm she is. How do I perfect that? I look grumpy when I'm overheated. Phoebe looks nothing but thrilled. Hello to our mascots, Bodhi, Maisie and Roger. hello to our top folks and executive producers greg chris and jeff and we'll hand over to matt

59:06Catherine Whitaker: for some shout outs we have laura pagan heart pagan heart not sure from berlin great name like

59:14Matt Roberts: laura siegmund also from germany yeah bet laura loves that bet this laura's a lot jollier

59:24Catherine Whitaker: laura says i started listening to the pod during the pandemic and was hooked immediately It definitely played a big part in turning my more casual interest in tennis into a genuine obsession. I'd never really had a favourite player before, but over the last couple of years, I've developed a real soft spot for Yannick Sinner. Still figuring out on the WTA side, they're all so good. I'm still amazed at how stressful watching tennis has become now that I am emotionally invested.

59:51Matt Roberts: These are good, good takes from Laura. and Berlin is where Nostkova won her pre-Wimbledon title correct

1:00:00Catherine Whitaker: very good big day

1:00:01Matt Roberts: well I got it from Hannah in the chat she reminded me thank you Hannah yeah big day for Yannick Sinner fans tomorrow good luck Laura Matthew Matthew thinks it's going to be a blinder for you

1:00:15Catherine Whitaker: and finally we have Carrie Flanagan hello Carrie

1:00:20Matt Roberts: hi Carrie

1:00:20Catherine Whitaker: who is from Ballycastle Northern Ireland what a place and Carrie says I had my first visit to Wimbledon last summer and I saw Amanda Nisimova on court three brackets the day that Catherine and David were getting hounded out for sitting in the wrong section I remember that that's right

1:00:41David Law: yeah that was not a great moment

1:00:44Catherine Whitaker: you were you were misled to a section that was for photographers or something yeah yeah but it

1:00:50Matt Roberts: don't

1:00:51Catherine Whitaker: let's not

1:00:51Matt Roberts: relitigate that let's not

1:00:53David Law: relitigate like Flanmania

1:00:58Matt Roberts: I love it when David brings up Flanmania but Ian Flanagan wasn't Irish he was British

1:01:09Catherine Whitaker: Welsh did we decide

1:01:11Matt Roberts: yeah we did some googling of this quite recently you'd be astonished at how frequently Ian Flanagan comes up and Flanmania do we know anything else about Carrie other than that she's from a magical sounding place?

1:01:27Catherine Whitaker: No, we don't. No? Okay.

1:01:28Matt Roberts: Well, I'll go like Carrie Soto, the fictional tennis player.

1:01:34Catherine Whitaker: Carrie says the much-repeated reference is the book Carrie Soto is Back.

1:01:38Matt Roberts: You set me up for that. I said, do we know anything more about Carrie?

1:01:40Catherine Whitaker: Well, it's not necessarily about Carrie, is it? But Carrie says, but with the Serena show back in town,

1:01:47Matt Roberts: maybe not a bad shout, because that book is about a former champion coming back. wasn't it announced 12 or 18 months ago that they were making a film adaptation of Carrie Soto and Serena Williams was somehow involved

1:02:04David Law: this is somebody different to the Sex and the City person isn't it who's that Carrie something Bradshaw I always get Carrie Soto and Carrie Bradshaw mixed up

1:02:19Matt Roberts: ok and Carrie Fisher do you get her mixed up

1:02:23David Law: wasn't she Star Wars? Yeah. Yeah. And When Harry Met Sally.

1:02:28Matt Roberts: Yeah. What a film. What a film. Check me out with all my reference points. David's reference points are a wild ride. He's on solid ground with Ian Flanagan.

1:02:39David Law: Yeah. Flanmania.

1:02:40Matt Roberts: Take him into Carrie territory. And things get weirder.

1:02:44David Law: I came up with three of them. Well, sort of.

1:02:49Matt Roberts: Carrie and... Laura.

1:02:51Catherine Whitaker: Laura.

1:02:52Matt Roberts: How could I forget? Carrie and Laura, thank you ever so much for being friends of the tennis podcast. If you'd like to become a friend, get a shout out. The link is in our show notes, as is the link to subscribe to the newsletter. We will be back at midday tomorrow with our men's singles final preview. We'll be joined by Ava Wallace from The Athletic. Very much looking forward to that. And we will, of course, be back with our post-men's singles final show, not before 7pm tomorrow night. But if it's a long final, who knows what time it could be. So do keep across our YouTube, our socials, our newsletter, and we'll make sure you know when we are going live.

1:03:30Matt Roberts: And all is left to say is that we are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. Congratulations to Linda Nozkova. Thank you for listening and for watching. And we'll see you tomorrow.

1:04:09We'll be right back. It's just four doses a year after two starter doses. Don't use if allergic to SkyRizzy. Serious allergic reactions, increased infections, or lower ability to fight them may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor about any flu-like symptoms or vaccines. Thanks to SkyRizzy, there's nothing like clearer skin and better movement. And that means everything. Because nothing is everything. Ask your doctor about SkyRizzy. Visit SkyRizzy.com or call 1-866-SKY-Rizzy to learn more.

1:05:07Your business is only as strong as your connection. AT &T Business is the reliable provider built for that exact brand of hustle, so you can stay focused on the work that builds your legacy. Powered by AT &T Business. Built to work. Get AT &T Business at business.att.com.