Live from Wimbledon Day 4 - Dimitrov, Berrettini roll back the years

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1:56hello and welcome to the tennis podcast live from wimbledon and presented by barclays the official banking partner of wimbledon that incredibly unprofessional intro was largely cameraman matthew's fault but also because we have a crowd

2:15they made it through security we don't know how but they are here and we are very grateful for the rule breakers of Wimbledon day four it is day four

2:28Matt Roberts: of the championships here at SW19 the second round has been completed and the last man to sneak his way into the last 32 was one Grigor Dimitrov If you're with us live on YouTube tonight, you've probably just watched his four-set win over 15th seed, Yakub Menshik, 7-6, 4-6, 7-6, 6-3. More an exorcism, David, than a win. I felt like we all and Grigor Dimitrov were doing trauma processing there in real time. That was a lot for me. I cannot imagine what that was like for Grigor Dimitrov.

3:12David Law: Yeah, because he had to remind everybody on court that when play stopped for bad light and they needed to put the roof on, that that's what happened to him here a year ago when he played Yannick Sinner. And he reckons that that was responsible or at least a contributory factor to him getting injured or at least, you know, he's freaked out by it. And he was worried, you know, and there's obviously a delay and you cool down and all the rest of it. And look, he's carried this with him for a year. You spoke to him at the US Open, Catherine, for Tennis Podcast Meets in Australia. In Australia. And he was so open, wasn't he, about how you're so rarely in that flow state where you're playing Yannick Sinner, you're two sets up, and you're playing like you always wished in your dreams that you could play on centre court at Wimbledon against the very best player in the world.

4:03David Law: That's what he was doing. and then just a terrible, terrible situation for him. I know this is only the second round. I know it's only Jakub Menchik and that's not to dismiss him as a really, really good player. It's not Yannick Sinner. And, you know, there's so long to go. But it was a moment. He has been waiting for a moment ever since that Wimbledon centre quarter last year. He's been playing the challenger in Dublin. He reckons that that's helped get him ready for this. But how many matches in first rounds have we seen him play and just not get out of and just not be able to get any momentum going.

4:38David Law: And there he is with his old coach, Jamie Delgado, in his box there, sitting alongside David Albandian, who's part of the team these days. And, yeah, here he is pulling out a really, really good win, proper grass court tennis, just exposing Mensik in the end and now setting up a clash against Matteo Berrettini, of all people. It's only round three, that. But it feels like so much has already happened. But even in isolation, it feels like it doesn't really matter because he had this moment getting choked up in the interview and showing everybody still how he can play.

5:16Matt Roberts: Guy Dixon on the live chat says, 25 years since Goran's wildcard win, Grigor could replicate this in 2026. So we're all keeping our heads about the Grigor-Dimitrov situation.

5:27David Law: Can I tell you something while you were having a chat over there? Matthew lent in to me and he said I think he's going to win the tournament Matthew that thought Sitsapas was beating Djokovic last night and Pliskova was beating Fionta yeah but third time lucky guys third time I like it yeah Matthew keeps saying I've got to get one of these he seems really really confident about it so wow he just said you know it's just I don't think I don't think Djokovic is going to do it I think he's going to do it

5:55Matt Roberts: but there is also Yannick Sinner I know but Matthew Matthew knows that he was two sets of love up against Yannick Sinner. He's proved he can do it. Well, I'm not getting that carried away. I'm just... Not even I'm getting that carried away. I'm focusing on tonight and the joy of tonight and Dimitrov's little, almost like dance at the end when he'd won. He started kicking his feet, sort of giggling like a kid. And even Menchik looked thrilled at the net for him. You know? Very Kasper Rude, that. Yeah, everyone loved Grigor.

6:29Catherine Whitaker: And, oh, what a moment. Yeah, what a moment. And, look, he kind of stole the third set in a way. That was kind of when I really tuned into this match. And he was the one under pressure on his serve all the way through and kind of digging himself into holes and getting himself out of them. And then he went down a break in the fourth. And you thought, OK, we're going to be in for the long haul here. And this is probably going to go five. but then he just came up with identical backhand passing shots up the line one after another to get the break back in that fourth set it was incredible shot making and then manages to close it out what a brilliant point to finish as well like one that shows off his his grass court skills where he uses the slice and gets the short ball and whips the forehand it was just it was everything that makes him so good and so good on this surface.

7:22Catherine Whitaker: And yeah, he was asking for the roof not to be shut after the third set because he thought there was still time to finish outside. That's how much it was in his head, I think. He was shaking. Yes, and he was having to stretch out his back and his shoulders and his arms, desperate for what happened to him last year not to happen again. He was so on edge about it. So I think he's done an incredible job to play the fourth as he did. And yeah, it feels like redemption.

7:54Matt Roberts: He's always talked the talk, Grigor, hasn't he, about taking the positives from things. He knows that you've got to try and be positive as a tennis player. And I think he generally is a Sonny of outlook person. But I think he's also somebody that feels things very deeply. And he's been talking the talk about, I've processed it, I've moved on. It's okay. It was bad at the time, but it's okay. I really don't think it has been okay until tonight. I think that felt so necessary. He needed it. He needed that.

8:28David Law: And even in the interview on court afterwards, for the first two minutes, he couldn't talk. He couldn't get a sentence together because of emotion. He kept having to pull away and saying, I've got to get myself together here somehow. you know and people were cheering him and clapping him and and he eventually figured it out a way to sort of talk about the match and then uh he was asked at the end do you uh do you know you play next uh and he says no and he said she said well do you want to know and he said as you wish he said to her and she said uh matteo berrettini and he goes oh that's going to be a pretty match game game sees game and i'm thinking you're talking start of play or you're talking yeah it's the sort of um sad handsome off don't you just love it though that they're both these are two guys that are in the autumn of their careers and they've both had so much disappointment really sadness on on tennis because they've had great moments as well i mean and Berrettini was a finalist here.

9:38David Law: Dimitrov has reached Grand Slam semi-finals, but it's always felt like they've both left something on the table. Not necessarily all because of their own doing, mostly because of injury. And yet there's still something there, and they're getting moments, and now they're going to share a court. I love that.

9:56Matt Roberts: And I think there's still something there for both of them here.

10:00David Law: Yeah.

10:01Matt Roberts: More so than anywhere else. it's a pretty match but it's also a grass court specialists truly match I mean the Dimitrov slice I mean that that did for Menshik today it was so damaging I saw some analysis from from Gil Gross using tennis insights about how you know there's a lot of talk about the Menshik forehand being shonky and actually the forehand is kind of fine stands up really well if it's above waist height and we saw that in Paris where it mostly really stood up to scrutiny the Menshik forehand but it's when it's below waist height that he has real trouble with it and Gregor is a master at keeping the ball low and he got caught out by that over and over today and Berrettini, David, against Artifis, not that exact same story but a gulf in experience and nows on this particular surface.

10:53David Law: I actually think it was quite similar. Watching where I get a chance to watch it because I was commentating on it for BBC Radio 5 Live and we are sort of head-hiked to the players in the corner of the court and you get to see the trajectory of the ball and what it's doing off the surface. And I think sometimes you can hear people like us and commentators and pundits reference how grass takes the slice and you can hear them talk about such and such players' game is suitable and effective on a surface. and I think when you watch on TV sometimes that isn't completely transferable as a way to explain it I sometimes watch a tennis match from the end of the court with the TV view and think I don't quite understand why that player's missing and that player's shots are so effective on this surface when you see it court level you really get it trying to see Art of Peace handle the gamer Berrettini who just is so experienced on grass so good at the particulars, the minutiae of hitting a slice, of getting around and slapping a forehand, hitting a drop shot at the right time, volleying, keeping it low, and hitting a big serve, and just stopping Feast playing the ball in the kind of slop that he wants it in.

12:17David Law: And he was just sort of sliding the ball all over the place. And it is a different sport in that regard, or a very different slant on the same sport and you just would not get the same reaction out of Berrettini's game on any other surface. The ball wouldn't do the same things with his shots and it's just a nightmare for these players. Against Dimitrov you're going to get two players who can both do it. That is going to be like going back to a match from the 90s or maybe even the 80s because it won't all be serve and volley but there'll be so much sliding the ball around and keeping incredibly low to the ground, both ball and player.

13:01Matt Roberts: Now then, the patron saint of you never know over here, David Law. I'm not going to ask you, can it happen for Dybitrov? Because if we know anything, it's that anything can happen in sport and you are the you never know guy. I'm not going to ask you, will it happen? Because only a madman would predict that it will happen.

13:25Matt Roberts: Go on, Matthew. I am going to ask you exactly how ludicrous you think it is that Matthew has made that prediction tonight. How improbable does it feel right now?

13:38David Law: I don't think it's ludicrous to think that Dimitrov could reach the final. I don't. And the reason is because the next match feels 50-50 to me. Him and Berrettini feels 50-50. And the winner of that should win the next one because it would be Bergs or Ferry. They should win that one, the winner of it. And then you're into that, and they can let Zverev and Fritz and Tiafa beat each other up in the other section of the draw. There is Dimonor. There is Dimonor as a quarterfinal. And look, probably he's the favourite to come through that section. But on the surface, Dimitrov, if he's fit, he would back himself, I think, to be able to cause trouble.

14:23David Law: So I don't think it's out of the realms that he could. The big question mark has to be also whether his body holds, because how many Grand Slams has he had to retire in in the last year? It's not just Wimbledon, is it, last year? It's several. It's more often than not that his body just fails him. And it is only the second round. It sounds ridiculous. But the level he's playing and the inspiration he gets from this crowd, well him and Berrettini I just again hope that they're fit hope that they play out another classic

14:59Matt Roberts: well that's all made me very emotional

15:01David Law: it's not ludicrous for him to get to the final I don't think do you agree? it's unlikely I really don't want to have to go after David come on give it to me and I do I do believe you for tennis reasons I do think this bottom half

15:21Catherine Whitaker: is so open. There are so many people you can make a case for and I don't think there's much between a lot of them and I would put Dimitrov and Berrettini in there. I just don't trust either of their bodies over six best of five set matches. I don't. And Berrettini, we saw it at the French Open a month ago and Dimitrov, as Dave has described, we've seen it so many times over the last couple of years. So I would probably say like on balance there, I would take someone else in this half of the draw over either of them just because I have more faith in other people to last the course. But I would, you know, I would love either Berrettini or Dimitrov to get to the final.

16:09Catherine Whitaker: It would be incredible, especially Dimitrov. be such a sentimental I mean it's every sentimental person's pick

16:19Matt Roberts: surely, how hard of heart would you have to be to not take some pleasure and some joy from that, maybe you're just a Taylor Fritz guy, because if one of those two's in the final then Taylor Fritz isn't there I mean not loads to report from his match today 6-2, 6-2, 7-5 against Patrick Kipson, he wore the blazer again he wore the trousers again he tried to do the stripper whip of the trousers a bit more smoothly today than he did two days ago which wasn't hard because by his own admission it was not smooth two days ago he said he'd got some advice from from tiafo who really has really has got the magic mic thing down yeah he looks like he's been doing it on a weekly basis yeah off it goes.

17:07Matt Roberts: It's still not quite that smooth but he's got at least another round to perfect it. I did find it interesting that he didn't put the blazer on for the interview which the real the guys that are really committed to the blazer they put it back on for the interview at the end. That's what Djokovic is doing. Fritz is like I've done my bit I've done my bit with the blazer the sponsors are happy they're going to talk about it on the tennis podcast. Let's quit while we're ahead. And he gave a really great interview on the court and also some interesting quotes that he gave to ESPN after the match as well he visited the set he still seems to be having a bit of a crisis about not playing Eastbourne he really wanted to play Eastbourne and he said you know he's just absolutely dismissed Patrick Kipson in this match and that's two straight sets matches he's looked great and he said I still haven't got the rhythm that I usually have because I didn't play and win Eastbourne you know that's my that's my routine here in this part of the season and then he was asked about it further on ESPN and he said that his team forced him not to play Eastbourne he said he wanted to play but after making the two finals at the previous two events they said this is madness Taylor and he listened to them just like he did with not playing Monte Carlo good for them And I suppose the point being that it's okay not to feel rhythm in the first couple of rounds.

18:37Right. That's what Yannick Sinner's talking about at the moment. That's what a lot of the top players who don't play the week before a slam feel.

18:45Catherine Whitaker: They trust themselves in those early rounds, get through it, and then they've got plenty in the tank for the end of the tournament. I think Fritz's in a great place. I really do. I think he had a good form coming in. He's kept it going. Remember last year when he was on court the entire first week here at Wimbledon, he played those long first matches in the first couple of rounds. He did a great job to get through them. They were tougher draws than this. But you always felt like he was playing catch-up from that point and he was going to have to try and conserve and make the best of what he had.

19:18Catherine Whitaker: And he did, but here it's been efficient winning. And I think the most important quote that he gave all day was talking about his knee and saying how, yes, it is still a work in progress in terms of properly getting over it, but he said it's felt great on the grass. And he was worried about the grass with the kind of bending down low and sort of unstable nature of it. But he says he hasn't been thinking about knee pain on court and that's a huge step forward. And that's through the whole of the grass court season. And I feel like he would have told us. I think he struggles to not be honest about what he's feeling out there.

20:00Catherine Whitaker: I think if there were an issue, I think you would be able to detect it. And that's not to say that something won't come. It's still there in the background, I think, for him. But so far, so good. It's so important to be in this side of the draw. There's a lot of good players, but he's leading the pack in this bottom half.

20:20Matt Roberts: he's going to win Wimbledon and still be thinking about the Eastbourne that got away. I want to hear him say it in his on-court speech when he's holding his trophy. I could have done the double. The thing is, Eastbourne probably don't want him to win Wimbledon because then that will become his new routine. Yeah. Anyway, it's lovely that he feels that way about a 250 the week before a slam, but I also think it's absolutely the right thing for him not to be playing it, certainly in these particular circumstances where he'd gone to the final the two weeks previously. He's got Lorenzo Sonnego next in round three.

20:59He beat Diallo today in five sets. Sonnego, Diallo, of course that went five sets. Of course. And of course it was down here with lots of noise.

21:11Matt Roberts: Yes. Alexander Zverev very little to report here. A slightly more competitive third set against Valentin Royer, 6-1, 6-3, 7-6. He's got Marcus Girone next, who's a good grass court player, Girone, but you'd have to call that a fairly comfy draw, Royer Girone, for the second week.

21:28David Law: At the moment he got past that first round, I thought, before he gets to the... Is it fourth round or quarterfinals when he would face Fritz? Quarterfinals. I just thought, I don't see anybody threatening him until then, really.

21:43Matt Roberts: You mentioned Arthur, sorry, Arthur Ferry. he beat Otto Wertonen today the conqueror of Ben Shelton of course in the previous round you said Matt I know despite the fact that you're a big Wertonen believer when you were asked about Wertonen Ferry today you did say it's really really tough to come back after a big win and that is what it looked like today for him against Arthur Ferry four sets good match we sent Matthew out to be our reporter on this one he really enjoyed it did indeed enjoy the work of Arthur Ferry. And he said, yeah, he's a bargain basement Carlos Alcaraz. Which is a great review.

22:26He absolutely meant as a compliment. And he was buzzing about Ferry when he got that.

22:32Matt Roberts: I think to be any version of Carlos Alcaraz is a tremendous compliment. And what he liked is how brave he is and daring

22:40Catherine Whitaker: and willing to take on difficult shots and make plays. And, yeah, he did really well today, Ferry. And, again, he's in an open section of the draw. I mean, it's a tough one against Zizou Burgs, who's just won a grass court title and has kept that going. But you would sign for that, right? Absolutely. To reach the second week of Wimbledon. Burgs would sign for it as well, by the way. like he's pleased with his draw so there's an opportunity for both there yeah bergs is finally

23:15Matt Roberts: happening my long-range investment in zizu bergs is finally what constitutes happening well doing a damn sight more than he's done for the rest of the season david i feel a bit like that about berrettini some total of nothing and dimitrov now they're only going to be one of them after the next round Flavio Caballi he gets a day off tomorrow and he gets into round three two big bits of news for Flavio Caballi who I was keeping an eye on this on the screen with a bunch of other matches at the same time and every time I turned my attention to his court he was on the floor he seems to be just a bit of a chaos magnet and he seems to be sort of exhausted by it I think he is exhausted but also seeing the fun in it.

24:08Matt Roberts: I think he's a good example of how clay court guys and guys that have expended a lot in Paris can kind of come into Wimbledon with a realism. I think there's a realism about him. I don't think he'll be gutted if and when he loses. Say when he loses. Not predicting Caballi to win Wimbledon. I don't think he'll be devastated But I also think he's giving his heart and soul when he's out on the court. I mean, he's, as I say, clearly exhausted on the floor after every other point. I don't quite I don't quite know why. Maybe he thinks that he's seen Boris Becker and thinks that's that's what you need to be doing.

24:52Matt Roberts: He's he's giving incredible stuff in the on-court interviews. Today, it was a question again with Jenny Drummond. And she seems to be getting all the big moments in the interviews. Actually, no, excuse me. It was Carthy. Carthy and Anna Seagram, this one. And she noted that he had scooped up 15 towels at the end of the match. 15. I didn't know there were 15 made available to them. And the question was, are you going to distribute them to the... Is it so that you could distribute them to the Italian fans that are here cheering you on? And really were... I mean, we know what the Italian fans are like.

25:29Right, it was a great vibe out there. And he said, shut up, no.

25:36Around 15 minutes. Please make your way to the exit gates and make sure you take all your belongings with you. We hope you've enjoyed your day here at Wimbledon and wish you a pleasant and safe journey home. Thank you. He said, shut up, no. He said, you're stitching me up here. now I'm going to look like the bad guy for not giving them the towels. But he said, the towels are for my team. But thanks for cheering for me. And again, he just handled it with such charm and sort of loveliness that, yeah, it was great. He wished his trainer a happy 10th wedding anniversary. He said, you're welcome. We're done in good time for dinner.

26:21So you can go out for dinner with your wife. It was good stuff from Kabbali. And he's got Karen Hashanov next.

26:28Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, and if you look at his scores so far this tournament, he's won all four tie breaks he's played. Those have been vital for him. He's had close sets and he's had to very much ride some ups and downs during the matches. But he has played the big moments and the tie breaks incredibly well. And this one's awkward today against Duckworth, who's super consistent, steady, comfortable on the grass. not going to break down physically, asks a lot of questions. And right at the end of that third set, Caballi just surged and suddenly started coming up with the brilliant shot making we know he's capable of.

27:11Catherine Whitaker: And he celebrated that third set today, I think bigger than any set he won at the French Open en route to the final. It was an incredible celebration, an incredible outburst. And I find Caballi an interesting example of how, despite everything David said, which I think is so true about grass and its subtleties and how it can change the sport, Caballi is one of those guys who can thrive on clay and grass.

27:43Matt Roberts: A natural services guy.

27:44Catherine Whitaker: We get those in the sport. And I think a lot of it is about being comfortable moving. And he's such a good athlete. He's such a good mover. but he's also brilliant at kind of the return of serve. His eye is so good, he can pick up a serve, and I think that's a quality he really uses on the grass, where it's harder to return, because it's skidding through. Yeah, I just think he's an interesting case there. Look, prior to the French Open, his best slam was here last year, and he reached the quarter-finals. With Hugh Grantful asleep. I had kind of written him off at this Wimbledon, because coming back from the French Open, just seem like such a tall order.

28:25Catherine Whitaker: But actually, I think he's in a workable section of the draw. He's coming through big moments. He seems to be in a great mood, despite saying he hates his life. And he's got the qualities to really thrive on this surface. And it's really fun to have him back in a draw like this and doing well. I'm glad he survived these two matches, which were close. It's just more fun with him in the draw.

28:51Matt Roberts: Fun is it, isn't it? It's more fun when Flavio's around. The last men's result to pick up on David Francis Tiafoe avoiding a scare against Jan Choinski, which was, I cannot tell you how far from upset watch this match was for me. So when Tiafoe loses the first set to Choinski, 6-4, not only do I start paying attention, but David hightails it over to court number three? Two. Court number two, because of course David is, David's got some credibility riding on Francis Tiafoe this fortnight. My prediction was not that Francis Tiafoe would go out to Jan Choinski. What happened?

29:31David Law: Well, second set, Tiafoe pretty comfortable, 6-2, and gets himself back on track. But the third set was a bit of an ordeal, quite honestly, for Tiafoe. I mean, Choinski, I've never seen him play like that. I mean, he's 6 '5". He's just broken into the world's top 100. He's 30 years old. He's been trying this for a long time. He's a real workhorse of a player. But he's limited. He's got a huge serve. And probably this is the first time I've really sat down and watched a match live courtside. He prepared for this tournament. He only played one, I think, one grass court tournament. He was playing clay court tournaments when the grass court season had started.

30:20David Law: You look at the size of him and you think, is that a good idea? Apparently he's much more comfortable on clay. That's where his challenger wins have come from. But toe-to-toe from the baseline, he was just really cracking his backhand. He's got a really sweet strike on that, hits it very flat. He was going toe-to-toe. He was getting the better of some of the baseline exchanges. is Tiafa was doing quite a bit of then suddenly throwing in a short ball and then lobbing him or passing him. And he was getting some success with that. But there's probably only so many times in a game that you can do that.

30:56David Law: You've sometimes got to just play bread-and-butter type tennis from the baseline. And honestly, Choyensky was staying with him all the way through. Goes to the business end of it. and the absolutely vital moment came when they were at five games all and Choinsky was brought into the net again, hits a volley into the open court. Tiafa just sprints off to his right and just slaps this forehand cross-court winner through Choinsky rather than past him. It went under his armpit. It went so fast. And I said to Matt Futterman sitting next to me from the Athletic, I said, And it was one of those where the shadows are lengthening on the court because it's sort of 7 o 'clock in the evening and it's bright sunshine but only on part of the court.

31:43David Law: I said, did Choinsky lose that in the sun? And Matt said, no, no, it just went too fast. He couldn't do anything. It was extraordinary. And then Tiafa just sort of stands there looking at somebody in the crowd like this. And it was a brilliant pose. But the whole match was an ordeal for him, I think. The biggest win for him, aside from obviously getting through to the next round, is that he didn't get stopped for bad light again. Because that's what happened to him in the first round against Terence Atman. If he had done it, that would have meant he was playing four days in a row, which is really not ideal.

32:16David Law: He's now got a really tough match. He plays against Alexander Bublik. Yeah, how do you feel about that? I actually think in some ways this match was probably quite good preparation for getting the eye in on the big serve. I mean you're not going to get the changes of pace that Bublik's going to throw at him. Bublik won in straight sets today so I think that that is probably a pretty much 50-50 match. I'd make Tiafoe a marginal favourite on paper but I just believe in Tiafoe hence why I've put him all the way.

32:48Catherine Whitaker: Are you seeing the things you saw in Haller that made you so convinced by him or is that not really what these first few rounds are about and he just needs to get through those?

33:00David Law: It's nowhere near as convincing as that at this point. I mean, he was chopping the very best players up in that tournament. He lost a set to Terence Atman, who's a good player, but he's not that level. He lost a set today against Jan Choinski, 100 in the world. He's going to have to really raise it against Public. But in a way, I think that that might be a little bit easier for him to get his head around because you're supposed to beat these guys. You know that that's in his mind a little bit. He's trying really hard to sort of just compartmentalise it into a match. But you know he wants a deep run.

33:37David Law: He doesn't want to even have to consider losing to this guy. Well, and we know he's given that quote about losing to Clans. Yeah, and look, he was very sort of sporting and it was a good handshake. but I do think it's about getting through it's just that you need to have an injection now you need to have another level that you find and he's got it it's in there but now he's got to bring it out because he you know it's serious it's serious suddenly it's Bublik and then it's probably Fritz and you know there's no I mean the old cliche there's no easy well there's no easy match for him right now

34:19Matt Roberts: Grant Campbell says Bublik is like watching West Brom in the Championship. You just don't know what you're getting. How do you feel about that take?

34:26David Law: I'd take Bublik's ranking for West Brom in Germany, to be quite honest. And while we're on the football, Spain 3-0. Vamos. OK, before we move on... It's great having two teams in the last 16. Today's show is brought to you by Vanguard. To all the financial advisors listening, let's talk bonds for a minute. Capturing value in fixed income isn't easy. Bond markets are massive, murky, and let's be real, lots of firms throw a couple of flashy funds your way and call it a day, but not Vanguard. Vanguard bonds are institutional quality. Institutional quality isn't a tagline. It's a commitment to your clients.

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36:49Matt Roberts: Right, on to the women's matches from today. Let's start with Iga Svjantek. Not necessarily because this match was particularly scintillating, 6-1, 6-3 over a very hampered Karolina Pliskova, but just because Iga Svjantek is so fascinating and her next match is absolutely fascinating. I mean, anything to say about today? I mean, Pliskova isn't... She's not a gazelle at the best of times. It's not a movement-based game, is it? And today she was extra far from being a gazelle. She had a lot of strapping going on. It wasn't pretty, this. Would that be fair to say?

37:29Catherine Whitaker: Yes, I think that would be fair to say. And Svantec started brilliantly, jumped out to an early lead and kept it going. She did get broken at the start of the second. And there was a brief moment where I thought, oh, my God, it's happening again, even against this Pliskova, but she got it back on track straight away and ensured that it didn't become like we've seen in a lot of matches where she struggles to get it back. Yeah, she was good today, she was on tech, and she talked in the press conference about kind of what David thought might happen. Getting the first match off her back, she said she felt a lot more relaxed and at ease going into this one compared to going into the first match on Centre Court on Tuesday as the defending champion.

38:16Catherine Whitaker: She said it was just an easier match to prepare for in that sense. And, you know, I think there is a correlation between how Shvantec plays and the pressure she feels like she's under. And, yeah, she was very good today, did a good job of exploiting that Piscava movement and moves on very comfortably. to what I think is an incredibly tricky match for her in round three against a player who's beaten her before on a big stage in Alexandra Ayala,

38:47Matt Roberts: who I went out to watch today with Matthew, beating Maya Joint 3-6, 6-2, 6-love. So I watched the early stages of this from the media centre, then went out to court number three, where there was a good amount of Filipino support. You could see all the flags around the place. And, you know, I've seen bigger Filipino representation at courts around the world. But my goodness, do they make themselves known and heard. And it only takes a handful of them to bring a vibe. And there was more than a handful today. But my goodness me, the noise and the vibe. And she so embraces all of that and invites it onto her shoulders because it comes with so much pressure.

39:31Matt Roberts: She's 21 years old and she's playing for a nation. She's so aware of that. I went back to watch her speech in the Eastbourne final last year because this match against Maya Joint was a replay of the Eastbourne final from last year when Ayala was devastated after, was absolutely devastated, lost this nail biter. It was her first WTA final. And she said in the speech, I wanted to do this for the Philippines. you know she she's inviting all of that pressure and expectation onto her shoulders and I know it comes with tremendous privilege as well of all of this support but it is a double-edged sword particularly for somebody so young and I'm I'm just blown away by her poise and her tennis not in the first set my joint was excellent it looked like the my joint that had played Serena Williams had shown up and Ayala was hitting long a lot looked like she just hadn't found her range at all and I'm very impressed with the problem solving that she showed out there and the presence of mind to just think okay well I'm not playing very well once I start playing well I'm okay here this isn't a matchup problem with with my joint and she was so impressive 6-2 6-love in those second and third sets and she can look like she's carving up opponents with her toolkit on the court, those lefty angles and the variety that she brings.

40:56And that was what Igor Svontek mentioned as being so tricky about her in her post-match interview and asked to throw forward to this third round match. It's the lack of rhythm. It's the lack of consistency, that feeling of inertia, not knowing what's next.

41:13Matt Roberts: Ayala is a real master of that. She does have a very attackable serve. but so does Igor Sviontek. They are both going to get broken a lot in this match. I think it's going to be who can get the most holds of serve on the board because neither is going to have much problem breaking, I don't think. But it's the first time Alexandre Ayala has been in the third round of a major tournament and that means it's the first round any Filipino player has been in the third round of a major in the Open Era. And obviously we expect this to be the first of many and it to be the third round and beyond because she's a very exciting talent is Alexandra Ayala.

41:56But this in and of itself should not be underestimated.

42:01Matt Roberts: They've had nobody before. And here is this 21 year old talent taking all this on her shoulders and doing it with incredible poise. She gave the most wonderful on court interview afterwards. she asked the crowd to sing happy birthday to her coach. Matthew joined in. I thought, oh, I'd love to join in. This is a real moment, but we're in the press box. Best not. Turned around, Matthew's in full voice. And I thought, you go for it, Matthew. Absolutely. It was a great moment. And look, this will be this third round match against Shiontek, Alexandre Ayala's 15th match on grass this season. It'll be Shiontek's fourth.

42:45Catherine Whitaker: Wow. Yeah, and as you said, she's beaten Chiantep before in Miami last year. They also played on clay last year in Madrid, and she got a set, lost in three. But she's pushed her, even on clay. And yeah, look, it's kind of special for us. Our editor, Jib, is from the Philippines, and it just so happens that a Filipino player has come along in this period that we're working with Jib. and I was messaging Jib today and he was like, yeah, Facebook's going mad for Yara. Like, everyone loves her. And, yeah, I think it's so right what you say, how she's not afraid to talk about how meaningful it is that she is representing the Philippines.

43:29Catherine Whitaker: And she's teamed up with Nike and got a Filipino expression, I believe, on her sweatshirt and her visor, I think, which translates to something like, once it grows, it cannot be stopped. and it's kind of talking about her you know her journey in tennis which is which is growing and and currently is is just blooming and uh she said it's very sentimental to wear things like this and to carry parts of my culture with me because that's a huge reason for why i am the way i am and i love the way she embraces it i love the way she lets people know just how important it is for her and I cannot wait for that match on Saturday's front ticket I think it's so intriguing for so many reasons I think you've done a great job of describing the tennis reasons and where the match up could be and they can both cause each other problems I've no doubt about that I'd be surprised if that wasn't a really competitive match I've been burned quite a lot with predictions in the last couple of days.

44:39I'm not sure I'm quite prepared to go to predicting an Eala win, but I think she's going to run her close. At the very least, she's beaten Svitolina, Rabakna, Vekic, Bartonkova this grass court season. That's a serious list of names and all different types of players. I cannot wait. Really cannot wait. When's that on? Two days from now. Saturday. Absolutely. I would be surprised if it wasn't a centre court match, but who knows? who knows let's have it let's have it Elena Rabachner today speaking of my predictions trauma I predicted a Katie McNally win today did you? yes so did I tennis podcast meets is powerful it's not that powerful 6162 for Rabachner over McNally

45:27Catherine Whitaker: I mean I think we went for it because you know points available and that kind of stuff yes it wasn't a oh here we go yeah I mean mine was a total contradiction because i also picked for back to reach the final so i'm all over the place that's called a hedging my predictions that's very david law review i mean look she was brilliant yeah back in her like she was the back in her that we know she

45:52David Law: can be i didn't have the wobble i did think that this was going to be close a lot closer than that you know i think in the in the second game after mcmahon held at the start i think she had she was she was making inroads you know in the first Rebecca in a service game and then she didn't get close again basically it just just streaked away from her I wasn't watching this match closely but I saw a couple of attempts to serve and volley that I thought oh god it's not working this yeah but you know not a lot was working I mean Rebecca in that mode here not a lot works for anyone quite frankly the question is can she can she keep it up and not have those dips and no shows it's a it's a it's a totally intriguing question yeah i mean you wouldn't be at all surprised if she kind of did what she did last year came in with out really much form and then suddenly just wins the thing elisa merton's next which is a test but yeah i mean if today's shows up game over record against her yeah seven and one i think it is amanda anisimova matt the time has come to relive how long have we got you sure you want to what i'm going to describe is i survived diane parry at the french open i can survive anything and this did feel like the the second part of that story and amanda anisimova proactively mentioned that in her on court interview didn't she that she had french open flashbacks in the deciding or going into the deciding set tie break of this match with saphir cannon she said and i learned my lesson from paris and even though the level in this match frankly from both players including amanda and isomova was mostly quite poor i left after the second set i had things to do but i was also it wasn't what i was pleased to get out of there it was not what i signed up for i was like go go save yourself um I think she was really chuffed with this win because it exercised a demon from Paris which I think must have been haunting her because she played badly in that tie break in Paris and she played okay this is a low bar to clear but she played her best tennis of the match

48:08Catherine Whitaker: in the deciding set tie break Matt yes she was incredibly dominant on serve through that deciding set tiebreak barely had to to hit a ground stroke after a serve the service just did the damage for her and and she was strong on return and and won the tiebreak very comfortably but before then I mean even when she won the first set 6-2 I didn't think she was playing all that well or hitting the ball with much conviction certainly not consistently you know like there was the odd good moment but it was it was erratic and Kennan was really poor at the start like just couldn't couldn't get anything going.

48:47Catherine Whitaker: I did think Kenan made quite a nice adjustment through the match and started to use some of her choppy shots. She's capable of that, Kenan, especially on the backhand side. She was doing it a bit on the forehand as well and just slightly messed up Inissimova's rhythm. I mean, not that she had a lot of rhythm to mess up. It just made her play even worse than she was. And look, frankly, the forehand for Inissimova was a disaster today. She said it in the on-court. interviews she talked about it in the press conference and it it got to the point where she was annoyed when she was hitting winners off the forehand because she was like well where's that been i can do it it's not like i forget how to play tennis it just disappears and i think she's making technical changes on it to me it looks like the backs the backswing's a bit bigger a bit rounder i'm not sure if that's necessarily a good thing but she just doesn't seem confident with it at the moment the backhand wasn't brilliant either there was a lot of errors off that her footwork wasn't very good it was it was a pretty bad performance and she was 3-1 down in the final set and break point down to go a double breakdown and very very nearly lost this one but even before she got to the tie break and I think the kind of headline stat from this is Anissimova's 20 aces today which is an extraordinary number i do want to caveat that with the fact that kenning gets aced more than anyone uh ben rothenberg and his sub stack bounces did a big deep dive on this last year i was talking to him about it today and he said the best server on the on the wta tour is whoever faces sophia kennett like it is that bad why is she so bad of it well we were talking to pam shriver about it and pam thinks she guesses she just she just tries to guess to get onto a return to take it early and be aggressive but she guesses wrong she is relatively short in stature so it doesn't have the reach maybe i yeah i don't know clearly she's doing the wrong things and should change that and like and like what i was saying about cabali and his eye to pick up the ball i don't think she has that so maybe she feels like she has to guess um anyway she doesn't look at the ball when she's serving potentially got a got a big deep dive myself on that in the newsletter about how much of an outlier serving performance this was for anisimova and the fact that we can probably conclude that it was because she was playing canon so great that anisimova served well but like a little asterisk on it because it's canon and everyone serves well against canon subscribe to the newsletter absolutely link in the show notes folks little moment for the finger to the ear celebration from Amanda Anasmova I was I was being a bad person through this and getting quite annoyed at school children can I show you the picture of it it's so good it's so satisfying the group of school children and Knicks fans down the opposite end of the court to me making so much noise which is great i love it i love when people are involved in a tennis match but they were cheering and it's a mova heiress and it was getting to me and it was clearly getting bad things about children yeah that were you also doing a finger to your ear so then when she won she turned and gave it gave it the finger to the ear i i thought she would because she was clearly annoyed she doesn't hide being annoyed does she Amanda Anissa Mova and I love that for her she plays Madison Keyes next who beat a valiant Katie Swan today 6-1-6-4 on court number one Keyes is the favorite for that isn't she I think so in the form that they're in I mean that was the thing I was saying it's you know it's hard to get really excited about a comeback because you feel like the form is going to have to improve so much but you know I think these players can are good at taking it one match at a time and knowing that they can get through and there were flashes in there.

52:56Catherine Whitaker: It's not like she's forgotten how to play and she talked about liking playing hard-hitting players like Keyes. That often brings out the best in her. Keyes was talking Anissa Mova up, called her one of the best ball strikers ever, one of the greatest backhands I've ever seen and I was like, yes, exactly. One. So it's a game-recognised game situation. I do think Anissimova, look, I think she was at a sort of four out of ten by her standards for most of this. She's going to have to be seven or eight at least, I would have thought, to have a chance against Keats. I'm going Anissimova. Like it. You weren't there, David.

53:38It was really bad.

53:42I wasn't there. Back me up. Matthew was there too. He went for a nap. He didn't even last as long as me. He went to go and get his camera and, you know, sort himself out. Look, there were more important things to be doing. Last couple of results to pick up on from the women's draw. I want to highlight Emma Navarro today. An incredible fight back from her to beat Oksana Seleka-Mitova. She was a set and I think maybe a breakdown. She was on the ropes in the second set as well, was Emma Navarro. She's got a tough next round, but she is in a good section here, Navarro. And she's playing well. I know she's been down in both her matches so far, but she's Hannah's pick for the title, Emma Navarro.

54:33And look. Hannah knows things. Hannah knows things. I just want to throw that out there. She's got... That is a blemish on the CV. That is such a burn. from Dave don't make us mention Christina Pliskova David who was present today we saw her today yeah I mean listen I've got a list like this of my car cups she's got Marta Kostiuk next who had her own struggles today 6-3 in the third over Anna Blinkova and it was one of those kind of ordeal type matches for Marta Kostiuk who is wearing the most beautiful dress at this tournament it is sublime the Wilson dress I think it's all sold out I mean of course but it is even by Marta Kostiuk dress standards it is unreal but yeah Navarro Kostiuk and the winner of that then plays the winner of Sneger and Kruger these are all good players Kruger's in great form, Sneger is a nightmare she's so weird and unorthodox but I don't know someone in this section is getting at least to the quarterfinals and I don't know I don't think Emma Navarro is a totally outlandish pick.

55:50She's not my pick. But I think there's something there. Oh, she's a really accomplished player, isn't she? When she's playing well and feeling good, she's a bit of a nightmare to play against because she gives you so little. And I don't know. I think in a section of the draw like that, that might be what comes to the fore. Is she in your mix if she's not your pick?

56:17Catherine Whitaker: Would you go that far? Not for me. No, I wouldn't either. She's right on the edge. Bear in mind, my finalist pick from this half is Zulina Svitolina. He went out in the first round. She's having a nice flight home. She's not playing this. So, right on the cusp, I would say. Right on the cusp. Yeah. I think with the fact that Shiontek and Rebecca are still in this half. Keys. Yeah. And Simova. I was there. Yeah. Just one day, guys. It's interesting. I think Hannah watched her a lot in the build-up to Wimbledon and was really impressed with what she saw. It's like, I mean, not quite as extreme as Dimitrov and Berrettini, but she's got the codes for grass.

57:13She really understands it as a surface, I think. And she can move on it. She moves so well. Comfortable, confident. She could be overpowered, definitely. But just keep an eye on her.

57:28Catherine Whitaker: Yeah. Or let Hannah do that for us. She's got the most riding on it. Especially now I've totally exposed her on tonight's live show. I've gone to you for the final, so, you know, we're all out there.

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59:02Tomorrow's order of play. Should we have a chat through that? Sure. I think we should. Got to find it first. Day five, round three action, folks. Starting on centre court with Arta Rindeknes against Novak Djokovic. I think he wanted to play first or at least first or second Djokovic. I think he wanted not to play the...

59:24Catherine Whitaker: He said that. The non-night session again, right? He didn't want to risk getting held up by the curfew and coming back the next day. And I think also he wants some matches in the conditions that he's going to need to play and at the end of this tournament. He keeps playing late and under the roof and that's not what, okay, unless it rains, but that's not currently in the forecast. That's not the conditions he'll need to be used to when he plays the best players at the end of the tournament. So I totally understand why he wants some time under the sun and outdoors and getting used to that grass court tennis again because it is different.

1:00:04Catherine Whitaker: It's very different. Can incredible Artur Rindekinesh be a problem, David? I think he can keep scorelines in sets close.

1:00:12David Law: And then it's a question of is Novak Djokovic executing? Is he winning the tie breaks? I think he probably will. I think he looks like he's got his eye in, to me, Djokovic now, after that match a couple of days ago. I do think it is quite interesting when you switch from these night conditions to now playing first up. I realise that Rindikinesh was playing outside courts or not on centre court but he's been playing in the day certainly in the match that I saw him play against Oliver Tarvit you know that was in the start of the day in the sunshine Tarvit time it's back it's true and so you know that might take a little adjustment for Djokovic and like I said I don't think he's going to sort of streak away with sets I think he's going to have to earn a single break or he's going to have to get through tyre breaks.

1:01:09David Law: I'd still back him to do it. Second on centre tomorrow, Yelena Ostapenko against Arena Sabalenka. I've got some incredible intel from my sister-in-law, Millie, who is here today. Yelena Ostapenko is not wearing the Tesco patch for doubles. It seems to be a singles-only sponsorship. That's very good. This is all important data gathering. Yeah. That's really funny. I think she won the doubles maybe Tesco missed a trick she'll be lifting the doubles title that is what happens with like sponsor patches right you get them when you get on a big court get to the quarter finals and suddenly your arms are full you don't usually take them off usually once they're on David they're on I don't know it did look a bit stick on the other day to me what chance does she have against Serena Sabalenka

1:02:07David Law: I'd love to see her play well Ostapenko because I feel like I've watched those two play against each other and she's just been blazing the ball all over the place because it's really hard to hit a big ball off a big ball and Sabalenka is going to hit a big ball but hers is under control all the time or pretty much most of the time. Ostopenko very often isn't in that situation because she hits flatter. She'll love being on centre court, though, won't she? I wonder if she gets a Tesco bonus for a centre court assignment. I'd have thought so. To make up for the doubles burn. But I just don't trust her to be able to harness what she needs to in her game in order to be under control.

1:02:58David Law: I'd just love to see that but I think Sabalenka wins Michael Zhang against Felix Auger-Aliassime is the third match on centre tomorrow it was a surprise to me when that order of play came out he is the third seed Felix Auger-Aliassime and he has got new hair yep there'll be nice rallies in it I think but yeah it still takes some getting used to that Felix Auger-Aliassime is the third seed he's earned it because there are other people not here and he's got his ranking up But it's, you know, he hasn't reached a grandson final yet. Number one court tomorrow opens with Naomi Osaka against Dario Kasikina.

1:03:37Second on court number one, Jenson Brooksby against Yannick Sinner. Some very fun analysis, I thought, from Taylor Fritz about this match. Oh, yeah.

1:03:47Catherine Whitaker: He's like the go-to guy for journalists if you want like a good breakdown of tennis patterns and reasons. You go to Pagula if you want politics and sort of tennis State of the Union stuff. And you go to Fritz if you want nuts and bolts tennis stuff. And he kind of gave it a bit of a he's never seen my pace quote when he was talking about the fact that he played Brooksby last year. And he was like, he did an unbelievable job of handling my pace. He said, I was... He rates his pace so much. So much. he said he said i was striking the ball really well which is something he's going to see against sinner big ball striking if he handles it the way he was dealing with what i was doing in tokyo then this match from the ground will be really interesting oh he's he was here last year i'm remembering that he described himself as a mixed double specialist wasn't it what a gift um and he and but he did talk about the fact that he sees a big difference in the way they serve and have Sinner serve so much better than Brooksby's and Brooksby's going to have to try and get a lot out of that shot if he's got a chance here.

1:04:59Catherine Whitaker: I was just reflecting again on the conversation we were having about Sinner yesterday and what you were both saying about how his forehand has looked off and I did start to wonder whether the work he'd done for the clay, not only mindset-wise, which I talked about, but also in terms of his game and how he was trying to put a bit more shape on it and slightly change the shape of that forehand, whether that's been an adjustment that he's having to make back. And that in combination with not playing a warm-up tournament,

1:05:38rewiring the circuit. Just to tell you visually again, from that courtside position,

1:05:44David Law: when you see him strike that shot it looks a little bit wobbly it almost looks a little bit like Coco Goff's i.e. an extreme grip and when Borges was hitting flat to that side he sometimes looks like he's struggling to properly get up and down but with pace if you know what I mean it wasn't

1:06:05Catherine Whitaker: always that cleanly struck yeah and yeah so I just wonder whether it's because he's been hitting that beforehand a bit differently through the season but then coming back on the grass for the first time in a year he's he's having a bit of trouble with it but yeah i i still expect him to to find his range on him yeah interesting one's interesting isn't it that the fact generally in as much as that sin is on it you know what i mean like we're so used to seeing him on center i'm just interested to see whether that makes any difference it's gonna be hot tomorrow like not not french open hot but it's getting hotter now it is it's it's fine in the shade at the moment we're not talking about what it was last week we're not in catherine talking about the weather 80 percent of the time territory yet but it's it's seriously hot in the sun seriously hot i don't think it'll be a problem tomorrow but i also don't think he'll love the conditions necessarily uh finally on court one tomorrow is coco goff against claire lu i was reading claire lu's substack earlier on i'm prepared if Claire Lu does a thing against Coco Gauff I don't have a handle on at all in terms of how she plays, I just know she's been doing a lot of winning recently she's won 14 of her last 17 matches she's qualified at the last two slams a lot of those wins are not against players anywhere near the calibre of Coco Gauff but she did push Zachary at Roland Garros I'm kind of interested to watch her and also to watch Zheng tomorrow because I don't feel like I've really watched him an awful lot.

1:07:41Catherine Whitaker: And I do think the fact that they're on these show courts will be sort of helpful for introducing them and their games to a lot of people. Definitely. Court two tomorrow, Roman Sifulin, subject of Matt Statt yesterday. In the newsletter, he takes on Joel Fonseca, winner of that to take on winner of Djokovic, Rinderknecht, remember. Jessica Begulu against Jessica Boutas-Monero, two Jessicas. And it actually is two people with the same name this time. Huge. Hubert Hercouch against Tommy Paul is third on court two tomorrow. Court three, Bilinda Bencic against Anna Kalinskaya. Jan-Leonard Struff, who finished off Brandon Nakashima today, he comes back and takes on Daniel Medvedev.

1:08:23And third on is Karolina Mukovo against Manantreja Savankhau. Court 12 is where you'll find Jovic against Alexandreva. Xandreva, Davidovic Chikina against Fukšević. Court 18 is where you'll find Rafael Hodar again. He had to come back today and finish off his match against Pablo Karenja Busta. He's back tomorrow, takes on Shintaro Mochizuki on court 18, second on and third on court 18 tomorrow is Barton Kovar against Krejcikova. Oh, I want to see that one. Big time. And just finally on the order of play tomorrow, all of the remaining women's first round doubles matches are on the order of play.

1:09:04Venus and Serena Williams are not on the order of play, but they also haven't officially withdrawn from the tournament. That is the mysterious situation that we're in right now.

1:09:16David Law: Yeah, Venus is playing mixed doubles, I saw tomorrow.

1:09:19Catherine Whitaker: I think I saw that ESPN had been told that they're going to play Saturday. Okay. I think that's the latest. okay we'll keep you posted folks it feels like another serena give me an extra day yeah situation i'll let you know yeah the one the same situation we were in last week over the wild card okay uh folks that's it for your look back and your look ahead except to say hello to phoebe uh whose perky little ears are up like only a corgi can it's the ear to body ratio on a corgi that is so unique and special. So hello, Phoebe, our wonderful Wimbledon mascot. Hello to our mascots, Bodhi, Maisie and Roger.

1:10:04We'll do better tomorrow, Bodhi. Simply must do better tomorrow than three games for Katie McNally today. Absolute disgrace from us. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. And Matt, let's have some shout outs. We have Brandeis, who says I'm named after Brandeis University. where Bud Collins used to coach. Wow. Goodness, that's wonderful. That's brilliant. I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly.

1:10:35Catherine Whitaker: From California, but now lives near Melbourne. Well, I tell you what, Matt Futterman will correct you tomorrow if you are pronouncing that correctly. He's already issued a correction to me on US colleges this week. He pointed out that Oliver Tarvit did not attend And University of California, San Diego. He attended the University of San Diego. He said, both good schools, quite academically different. So that was me gently told. And I'll tell you who else can correct me if I'm wrong. Brandeis themselves. Here at Wimbledon on Saturday. Oh. For the first time. and we'll be queuing. Oh, wonderful.

1:11:25Oh, that's so wonderful. Well, Brandeis, I hope we get to say hi. Absolutely. That would be really lovely. Yeah. And have a wonderful day either way. Fight your way past some security guards. No big deal. You only have to take on Wimbledon security. You know where we'll be. We're such big stars, you see. We have to have a line-up of security. Yeah, we've got bouncers over there. Yeah, you can't get within 100 metres of us. And finally we have Vic Kearns Hello Vic Vic says Like Victoria Azarenka I go with a K for the short version Of my name Last time you went with Victor Twinsky Sorry about that Vic Oh god This is an upgrade Vic's helped us out I guess Vyngskakova would be more In keeping the tennis podcast history very good Vic any opportunity to mention Kizmova and Vic is a real one Vic was at the Wrexham live show last year oh Vic there's a fan you're a legend thank you Vic really appreciate it what a trooper I thought it wasn't a great show it was a great show it was the diehards wasn't it yeah diehards and the locals yeah Vic and Brandeis thank you so much for being friends of the tennis podcast if you'd like to become a friend of the tennis podcast the link is in our show notes folks this has been a fun one thank you thank you grigor for making us feel all the feels they've all been fun it's been a good four days hasn't it yeah it's been brilliant yeah has been so great let's do it all again tomorrow remember not before 9 p.m we'll let you know on the newsletter we'll let you know on instagram anywhere else any other means youtube if you hit that like and subscribe button on YouTube then you can get alerts when we are going live but it is not before 9pm and at the end of play on the show courts.

1:13:21We are loving doing these shows live from Wimbledon. We love how many of you are joining us live and joining in the chat. It is such brilliant fun. Thank you to everybody listening as a podcast as usual. Thank you for that. You are not forgotten. David is a radio die hard. Yeah. Old school. Big time. It's all about the 90s. That's not when podcasts were invented. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. We'll be back tomorrow. We'll speak to you then.

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