Live from Wimbledon Day 8 - Dimitrov's devastation, Sinner's uncertainty

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1:10Matt Roberts: Hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast live from Wimbledon on day eight of the championships, an absolute emotional rollercoaster of a day and in particular of an evening here at SW19 culminating in some pretty harrowing scenes in Melbourne Grig or Dimitrov on Centre Court but then buoyed again by the scenes up here on the roof of Reggie getting a selfie with Roger Federer the most iconic selfie you've ever seen we've got a crowd over there cheering our spirits

1:43Matt Roberts: and we needed them We needed that, didn't we? Because it's been a tough couple of hours over here, hasn't it?

1:51David Law: Yeah, it has. We've just, along, I'm sure, with all of you. Yeah, we love you too, Reggie. We have, along, I'm sure, with all of you, just sat through Grigor Dimitrov going two sets of love up against the world number one, Yannick Sinner, playing absolutely out of his mind, playing as we know he can, and really having Yannick Sinner in big trouble and within the space of 30 seconds having his dreams dashed by what looks like a torn pectoral muscle. And that is as sad a scene as I've seen on Centre Court. Matt?

2:37Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, brutal. One of the most brutal things I've ever seen on a sport, in sport, to be honest. He's outplaying Yannick Sinner, who himself had a little injury concern, which I'm sure we'll talk about. But Grigold Dimitrov is playing so well. and then he's serving at 2-1 in the third set and at 40-love he serves and comes in, hits a volley, misses the volley and clutches his armpit, his sort of right armpit and peck area. But, you know, didn't really think too much of it. He then serves from the deuce side at 40-15 and hits, I think, 96-mile-an-hour ace out wide, wins the game and that was the final point of the match because as David's described we think he's he's torn his pec muscle and he clutched it again clearly in in a lot of pain and sat down on the court and the the concern for everyone was immediate you know Yannick Sinner came came came across the net and the physio or medic, a couple of people came on to just sort of sit with him and they eventually sort of helped him over to the chair.

4:06Catherine Whitaker: And then he said, can I have two minutes off court? And he went off court for those two minutes and he came back and just shook his head and he was in tears and his face was red and the match was done. And it was awful. I don't really have the words. It was such a sad scene for a guy who has now retired in five consecutive Grand Slam tournaments. I mean, four had never happened, I don't think. It's just absolutely awful. I mean, I'm in shock, to be honest. And yeah, I really, really feel for Gryor Dimitrov.

4:45Matt Roberts: And there's something particularly poignant about it being the guy that has been defined by his physical prowess for large parts of his career. That for us, David, is defined by his youth. Like, he'll always be the 18-year-old. I know this is very much like making it about us. But he will always be that 18-year-old that we were responsible, partly responsible for overhyping and getting on board the baby-fed train and all of that. but seeing him be a 34-year-old man retiring in five consecutive grand slams with different injuries in the manor this evening, it hits particularly hard.

5:26David Law: Well, in the press conference I went to a couple of nights ago, I asked him how you go into matches now believing that that won't happen because you can't carry that around in your head. You can't play the sort of freewheeling tennis he played tonight if you're going to beat Yannick Sinner a guy as good as he is and as young as he is and at the peak of his powers and as seemingly impenetrable as he is you have to let it all go you have to let it all fly and whatever he did to get himself in that headspace he managed it because he let it fly today and doing that and playing to the peak of his powers got him to two sets to love sure I accept that Yannick Sinner might not have been at his best.

6:13David Law: I accept that he may have been compromised a little physically because he took a nasty fall too. But I don't think that that's the reason that it was two sets to love. I think this was Grigor Dimitrov playing the way that he can. And when I say, and there's a bit of humour in it, when I repeatedly say you just never know, it's because you just never know in sport what is coming next. When these players are playing at the peak of their powers or at the limits of their bodies, and I'm afraid you also just never know.

6:46David Law: we're not in the mood it doesn't feel right no we'll just let you do your thing johnny

6:56no sort of some of it appreciate that thank you yeah thank you um but the thing is you you never

7:05David Law: know when your body's going to give out in a match that's these are all things that contribute to sport being what it is but I'm sorry to say and this all this won't help but they also never know when it's too late in your career and when you talk about the youth that we remember from Grigor Dimitrov a question that I have in my mind that one day I want to ask him and which I wouldn't dream of asking him on a night like tonight and it would seem very it'll seem cruel to ask him but it's the question that's in my head is what would have happened if this Grigor Dimitrov head and approach and professionalism and understanding of his own game was on that 24 year old's body and not on that 34 year old's body because I can't imagine how much more he might have done and look that's life you know.

8:07Matt Roberts: But isn't that an if if if does not exist you know we are the people we are our minds are are just as much a a part of who we are at at what we do for tennis players as is their arms their forehand their backhand

8:26David Law: he he is who he is i accept i'm not criticism it's not meant to be critical of him but it's it it goes with my my view of well what it what if is a thing i think in in your career and in your assessment of somebody that's why someone like Yannick Sinner is so extraordinary to me is that he's already there he's already there in his mind as to how to maximize at the age of 19 not everybody is and like I say I'm not criticizing Gregor Dimitrov for that but I can't help in myself think you know just imagine if his body was what it used to be given that now he's finally cracked it with his game and with his with his approach on that thing of him you know

9:11Catherine Whitaker: letting it fly and pushing his game and his his kind of body to the limit to be able to do what he did do tonight for two sets while i was watching this something that struck me was not seeing gregor dimitrov serve like that very often in terms of the pace that he was up at he He was regularly up at 140 miles an hour. That's big serving from Grigold Dimitrov. And, yeah, I just wonder whether he was sort of stretching himself kind of beyond the limit that he had. And then also, you know, like, I don't want to speculate too much, but the roof closing and having to go off court and then coming back on and maybe getting a little bit cold and then coming back out and continuing to serve like that.

10:01Catherine Whitaker: I wonder whether that was maybe a potential factor in kind of what happened here. Yeah, but absolutely, absolutely brutal. I'm pretty stunned, to be honest.

10:18Matt Roberts: Did you feel, David, that he was going to go on and win this match?

10:23David Law: I was I'd say I was about 50-50 even though he was too sets to love up I think that look he's having to redline this and I think at some point Yannick Sinner gets back into it that's the big question mark is what happens if Yannick Sinner starts to get back into it i.e. gets a break he kept holding him off was he going to run out of time Sinner that was the big question mark I sort of thought before the end of that third set at some point Sinner's going to break and make it a contest and then can Dimitrov cope with the comeback and I saw I was 50-50.

11:09Catherine Whitaker: Well what was interesting is that Sinner did get the break back in the second set you know he was down and then he got the break back and he let out this enormous roar the kind of roar that you don't really see Yannick Sinner make and then he just lost his serve again he put in a really poor performance in the very next game to lose his serve and then Dimitrov serving out the second set Sinner missed an easy second serve return at one point like those sorts of moments kind of made me think that Dimitrov might might do this because there was a moment in the second set where Sinner got it back and he still didn't get over the line.

11:46Catherine Whitaker: Dimitrov still held him off. The fall that Sinner took was in the first game of the match. The very first game of the match, he came out middling the ball, Sinner. I mean, honestly, I thought, gosh, if he keeps this up, this is going to be a short match because he was just awesome in the first couple of points. And then Dimitrov got him out wide and he went out to his backhand side and fell over. It was a heavy fall. It was one where everyone gasped. you know like wow he that was a heavy fall but he got up he got up straight away and honestly in the moment i didn't think elbow you know i thought maybe he'd landed landed on his knee or landed on his hip or something but it did become apparent as the as the set and the match went on that he was clutching his elbow his forearm um and then eventually he got some he got the medical time out on that he had a bit of treatment on it a bit of sort of manipulation and he was talking about it affecting him on the serve and when he was sort of really unleashing on powerful ground strokes.

12:47Catherine Whitaker: And he did seem a little bit compromised, whether it was purely physically or maybe he was just distracted by it. I don't really know. We obviously haven't had his press conference yet. It'll be interesting to see what he says about, you know, for his prospects going forward in this tournament. But, yeah, these courts are hard. You know, I know it's grass, but they are hard when you fall on them. I mean, he didn't fall on his elbow, but he hit his elbow on the ground. And I can imagine that it did rock him a little bit. And it was definitely a factor in the match.

13:19Matt Roberts: It reminded me of figure skating falls I used to take, where you use your forearm to brace yourself so that the rest of your body doesn't take a clattering. I used to have constant bruising down that part of my arm. And it's incredibly painful. It's a really, really sore part of your body to hit. And it could just be that it was just really, really painful and affected him that way. And it isn't necessarily a bigger picture problem. We don't know. And maybe now that he's ended up progressing through that match, he won't give us a fully honest answer about what is going on there because he's got his future in this tournament to think about.

14:03Matt Roberts: I mean, it's just such a sliding doors situation. It's really difficult to analyse this match without talking about hypotheticals that seem so completely pointless. We need to talk about Yannick Sinner and what this means and the fact that he's still in the tournament, but what a weird situation for him to be standing there on centre court doing a post-match interview, having technically just won a tennis match, but he was two sets to love down.

14:33David Law: Yeah, I can't remember one like that, personally. We were just, name drop of alert, we were just chatting with Tim Hemman over here and reminiscing about, and cameraman Matthew managed to actually get this right by remembering that it was 1999 when Mark Filipousis was a set-up against Pete Sampras and hurt his knee and his knee gave out. And the winner was going to face Henman. And Henman ended up losing in four sets to Sampras, won the first set, I think, against him that day.

15:12Matt Roberts: Turns out you remember all this a lot more clearly than Tim Henman does.

15:16David Law: Turns out I did.

15:17Matt Roberts: Tim was like, yeah, 98? Matthew was heckling.

15:21David Law: You don't remember.

15:23Matt Roberts: You remember it more clearly than Tim Henman and Matthew remembers it more clearly than you.

15:28David Law: Yes, he remembers the exact year. I thought it was 2000. But I mean, Filipuzzi... Kings of the noughties there. You know, Filipuzzi was absolutely sensational for a set against a guy who'd won, who was the defending champion, who'd won four of the last five editions and he was dominating Sampras. And then suddenly his knee gives out and he's probably never the same again. And that's the closest I can remember, really, to something quite like this.

15:55Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, because the other precedents for players retiring when they're two sets to love up, this is from Jeusette et Mattes on Twitter, one of my favourite accounts, and this is the fourth example in the Open era where a player has retired from two sets up at a slam. the others were Belkin against Govan in 1969 at Roland Garros Paul Henry Mathieu against Vadasco at the Australian Open in 2007 and Steve Darcy against Florence Serra at the Australian Open in 2012 so you know the sort of beneficiaries of the retirements there are not someone who was potentially a title winner go on to win the tournament This is, in terms of that sense, unprecedented in open era history.

16:46Matt Roberts: Do you think there's any chance this could affect Sinner mentally, feeling like I haven't earned this place, I don't deserve to be here?

16:52David Law: I don't. By the way, I thought he was wonderful. He handled it really well. In his interview on court, just his general humanity towards Dimitrov was wonderful to see.

17:05Matt Roberts: They're friendly, aren't they?

17:06Catherine Whitaker: But I think he would have been like that.

17:08Matt Roberts: They are, but there's also this, you know, the cameras cut to Roger Federer in the Royal Box, didn't they? And there was, I mean, it was harrowing, the expression on Roger Federer's face. And it truly captured the moment. And Yannick Sinner's reaction captured the moment as well. And there is something about, something very profound about the way other players respond to seeing that in their compadres. You know, it's like it's the sporting version. It's obviously not the same severity, but it's a sporting version of, you know, someone your age or your cohort dying or suffering a serious illness.

17:48Matt Roberts: It's it's it makes you feel like they're by the grace of God, doesn't it? And I think in a sporting sense, that is what a moment like that feels like. And you can see the depth with which they feel it themselves. Roger Federer stood there and his life couldn't be better for me. Outfit in the Royal Box, everything's smooth and lovely. He was really affected by seeing that on a very profound level.

18:14David Law: Absolutely. But I believe Sinner is one of the best compartmentalizers that I've seen in tennis. I think we've seen that the way he's won grand slams whilst being about to be suspended. I think he will, look, he'll accept it as a sport. It's tough, it's horrible, but it's sport. He's through, he'll play again. And I don't think he'll have a flicker. I think the bigger concern will be, A, is he fully fit? and I share your view that we're probably not going to get an honest answer about that certainly not before the match but also is he good enough? We came into this match talking about 17 games lost in three matches and now he's come up and he's just lost two sets and frankly been on the rack and okay, is that just his opponent was brilliant and he wasn't so good or is this, okay, well, I mean, his next opponent, Ben Shelton, is going to look at that and probably take a little bit of encouragement from it, especially the way he's playing.

19:27Matt Roberts: Yeah, I mean, yeah. Do we want to move on to talk about Ben Shelton? Do we have any, do we want to linger in the sadness any longer? No, I'd rather move on and talk about this match, really, because that was a really fun time, Shelton-Sonego. Let's go. It really was. Let's relive the fun time. Bring some vibes, Matt. Well, I... Shall I show you Reggie's Roger Federer selfie again? I'll be looking at that every day for the rest of time. I joined this match at one set all, to be honest,

20:02Catherine Whitaker: because there was other stuff happening. It was at one set all that I sort of got my attention on it. And Shelton went up a break in the third set, and then Sonego got it back. and they're such, what makes this matchup interesting is they're both such momentum players. They can both almost start a fire without a spark. They can just make things happen and then roll with it for a bit and then the other one will wrestle it back. The highlights and shot making in this was excellent but the third set went to a tie break and David, I know you saw this as well. the tie break that Shelton played was an absolute joke.

20:46So good. I wrote down three of the highlights. One was an incredible reflex volley. The ball was behind him.

20:56David Law: He's the only player on the planet who could have done that. The only other player in history that could have done that, in my view, is Boris Becker. That was full-on, full-length dive, but with an extra spring that other players just don't have. and even in mid-air he's able to extend himself more and put himself I think in harm's way physically by how much he's extending himself and still flick the volley and I just think that takes a generational athlete to be able to do that. I think he has limitations in terms of his skill set compared to some of the others but none of the others could have done what he did in that shot.

21:34Catherine Whitaker: Then he hit an amazing backhand lob on the run and then he finished the tie-break with a massive forehand return winner down the line. Like, a ridiculous return. And I've written loads of other fun stuff too. And that acceleration in the tie-break was absolutely electric. And then the fourth set was fun too. Sonogo generated a break point at 2-all and Shelton saved it with an amazing half-volley winner. And then he said afterwards he was desperate not to play another tie, but I don't know why, because he played that one so well. He's back himself to win another one, but he just broke Sonny go right at the end to win it 7-5 in that fourth set.

22:21Catherine Whitaker: And, yeah, it was just a really, really fun match, certainly the latter half of this match that I saw. Both of them playing well at the same time, I thought. and yeah Ben Shelton has now had his best result his best slam result where each major has come this year so far so he really is showing up at slams and getting better at them and look I think a lot of people will kind of level at him draws and all that kind of stuff he hasn't had really really tough draws in slams necessarily to get to those stages but he's beating people in slams who he's sometimes losing to on the tour. There's definitely a difference.

23:02Catherine Whitaker: I think he backs himself physically over five sets and he knows that he's got an advantage there. And it's going to be fascinating to see him come up against Sinner, that Sinner who, as we've just discussed, not at his best tonight, a little bit maybe rocked by this situation or not. But either way, Shelton, I think, played him last year here. I think he had a set point and didn't take it. He's had that repeatedly against top players. I know he did get a set against Alcarez at the French Open, but he also could have won that first set.

23:32Matt Roberts: Anyone can get a set against Alcarez.

23:35Catherine Whitaker: When he comes up against the best players, Sinner, Djokovic and Alcarez, he'll often rock them for a set. He'll show what he can do, but he often hasn't taken that set. This is a good place for him to do it. This feels like as good a chance as any so far. Because I don't think Sinner's obviously way more comfortable on a hard court. and Shelton's bringing his game.

23:55Matt Roberts: You both seem to think he has a chance.

23:58David Law: I do.

23:59Matt Roberts: A decent chance.

24:00David Law: Yeah, I mean, Sinner's the favourite. I'm not trying to say otherwise. I wouldn't pick Shelton to win, but I wouldn't be that surprised if he did. He's going to bring his game. I think he's feeling himself here. I think he's showing off a bit here in a really positive way. I think he's surrounded by friends and family and the crowds are drawn to him. I think he's enjoying it. I think he's enjoying this challenge. The grass does provide a little bit of uncertainty for Sinner. On a hard court, you just don't have uncertainty. He knows exactly what bounce he's going to get. He knows exactly what's going to happen with his footwork.

24:40David Law: He's not going to end up on his back like he did today in the first game of the match on a hard court. That wouldn't happen. And all of this, I think, plays into Shelton's hands. I think Shelton might be a better natural surface player as well than a hard court player. And he's obviously had great results on a hard court. But this allows him to bring out that physicality, to dive and it be OK. All that stuff.

25:05Matt Roberts: Well, Mary Carrillo says it's the best athletes that succeed on grass.

25:10David Law: Yeah.

25:10Matt Roberts: And obviously there is more to it than that. But if it comes down to pure athletics, it's hard to look beyond Ben Shelton. I'm sure Carlos Alcaraz would give him a run for his money. but I haven't seen Carlos Alcaraz throw a football the length of the Indian Moles players' lawn. Would watch a contest, though. There's a content idea for you for free.

25:34Matt Roberts: So, the men's quarter-finals set up today. We have Shelton against Sinner, and we have Novak Djokovic against Flavio Caballi. Let's talk about Novak Djokovic, shall we? We dropped the first set, and how? 1-6, 6-4, 6-4, 6-4 against Alex Dominoor, trailed in the fourth set, looked like he was at one point going to lose that fourth set very handily. We were all settling in, gearing up, refuelling for a fifth set and in the words of Novak Djokovic, I was very relieved not to find myself in a fifth set. I've spoken about this match with quite a lot of people today that were watching it in various different ways and some have said they didn't really ever feel in doubt that Djokovic was going to lose.

26:20Matt Roberts: I personally did think there was serious jeopardy in this match. I thought Djokovic was on the ropes a bit and it's pretty extraordinary that he came through and won. I think he was a little de Menor resisted in the end. But quite a match.

26:38David Law: Yeah, quite a match. I was court level in the commentary box in the corner there. I found the first set absolutely fascinating. because the wind was taking a real interest in this match and impacting it. And first point of the match, the shirts, the players were billowing around. And the player at the near end, the raw box ends in front of Federer there, near to where we are in the commentary box, they were wind assisted, if you like. They got the wind behind them. And you could see Dimonor guiding the ball with the wind, not hitting it. He was just stroking it, knowing that the wind would take it a certain length, and then it would just land in.

27:18David Law: And he was doing it brilliantly. Djokovic, on the other hand, couldn't time the ball, couldn't deal with the wind at all. He hit two double faults in the first game. He hit two more in his next service game down that end. He lost his serve three times in that first set, and he was overhitting. And it was just really interesting to watch Dimonor clearly process process what was going on down the other end and think okay I'm just going to play solid I'm going to play solid tennis this wasn't what Dimitrov was doing in the later match this was just percentage tennis and it got him that first set it kept him in the next two and I think the only time I really started to think actually I'm not sure Djokovic will win this was in the fourth set when he's 4-1 down and there are points for 5-1 and I'm thinking if this goes to a fifth I mean I probably do back Djokovic but then you you've you've got no room for I'm always thinking well wins know that Djokovic is just going to get old you know and there were moments in the match where I'm thinking he looks a bit he looks a bit old here and then and then he'd come through that and it's not age actually it's just he's not informed yeah interesting I

28:30Matt Roberts: mean I I think I defer to your takes on the match you you watched all of it you were you were in the best possible spot to watch it. What really struck me watching it was how the extent to which Djokovic was not winning the long rallies. The longer the rally went, the bigger the chance of Alex Stimminor winning. And I felt like Djokovic won it with aggression and going for his shots, particularly his forehand.

28:57David Law: He looked at the stats in the third set. I think he'd won eight out of 33 that had gone nine shots and more. Yeah.

29:03Catherine Whitaker: And it ended up with Alex de Manor winning 36-16 of nine-plus shot rallies, so really long rallies. And the five to eight rallies were pretty even, but de Manor edged them. But the one to four shot, Djokovic won 66-45. And what he did, the BBC brought up a great graphic on the TV coverage, was in the first two sets, Djokovic was simply not hitting his spots on serve. They had an amazing graphic that showed that in the previous rounds, in the corners, he was getting 80 % of his serves, you know, right in the corners, whether it be wide or tee. Today, in the first two sets, he was more like 50%.

29:47Catherine Whitaker: And that allowed De Menor to get in the rallies. And when he was in the rallies, I thought De Menor was so smart. He was sometimes injecting pace, but a lot of the time he was slicing, keeping the ball low. making Djokovic shake extra shots, putting it deep. And Djokovic didn't, because he wasn't feeling the ball, in his words, with the wind, particularly at the start of the match, he was really struggling to outmanoeuvre de Manor and take over these rallies. But so many players would not have been able to discover and find what Djokovic found in that match. The way he did start hitting his spots on serve, The way he did start taking over with his forehand by the end, it was extraordinary, the change that happened.

30:32Catherine Whitaker: And look, he needed it right at the end. It was right at the end that he got it in the fourth set from 4-1 down, but he found it in time. And I think I did always think he would get through it because he's so good at that kind of stuff. But I did agree there was jeopardy here.

30:53Matt Roberts: I would say also, Duminor served badly for the first, even that first set that he won. Under 50%. Under 50 % for the first two sets. Like, he had a bad serving day as well, and I'm sure for both of them that was largely down to the wind. I just, still, I know Novak Djokovic is 38, and even he has to find different ways to win, and is evolving as a tennis player as he ages. but still seeing somebody in a match realise the tactic for me here against Novak Djokovic is to try and extend the rallies as long as possible and get in a hitting contest with him from the baseline. That still just feels so wild to me that that can be a sensible and effective tactic.

31:40Matt Roberts: And I find it hard not to be alarmed by seeing Djokovic lose those longer rallies and clearly looked so uncomfortable getting into them. I thought Domino was really smart about dragging him into the net. And Djokovic didn't want to get dragged into the net because he was very aware of what Domino was doing to him on the passing shots. He looked like Leighton Hewitt out there at times, I thought. And in fact, at one point when Domino finally missed a pass late in the second set, Djokovic did a crossing himself and a, thank goodness, one of the missed thing. like Djokovic didn't want to get drawn in but he also didn't want to be hanging around at the baseline with him because he was losing out on those exchanges and I just found that so bizarre to see but that negative is so balanced out by the fact that he found another way to win

32:33Catherine Whitaker: Yeah and I think in terms of the rest of the tournament like obviously it raises a question mark in terms of whether he's going to be able to live with potentially Yannick Sinner from the baseline in the semifinals, obviously. But I do think he was particularly poor today from the baseline because of the circumstances of the match with the win. I think the win totally threw him off in that first set. And I think he actually has been hitting his ground strokes well in this tournament and even going back to the French Open when he did go toe-to-toe from the baseline with Yannick Sinner in the semis.

33:12Catherine Whitaker: And, okay, he lost, but he backs himself more on the surface. And his serve, he didn't have his serve, and I think he would back himself to serve better in kind of future matches as well. So, I don't know. I agree with the sort of, what does it mean for the rest of his tournament? I think it's definitely a question we have to have. But it also felt a little bit specific to this match that he ended up playing like that.

33:38Matt Roberts: Interesting. and of course Roger Federer was watching him which was cool and he watched all of Mirandreva didn't he it was fun seeing Roger Federer there at the front of the Royal Box until he had the harrowing reaction to Grigor Dumitrov anyway let's not go back there let's move on to Flavio Caboli Novak Djokovic's quarterfinal opponent he got the better of Marin Cilic today 6-4, 6-4, 6-7, 7-6. This was not, David, the same Marin Cilic that beat Jack Draper a couple of rounds ago.

34:15David Law: No, and at the same time, it was a different kind of opponent. He obviously wasn't hitting the ball as well in the first couple of sets as he had been to get to this point, but equally, Caballi's so quick and was just getting balls back that I think 36-year-old Marin Cilic was like, how many shots have I got to hit to get this ball past you? He played really well, Caballi. And I think that it was getting dicey there for him, though, when Cilic started to mount that comeback. And, you know, with Caballi, I think that you're looking at a player who needs incremental achievements in his career to progress.

35:01David Law: I don't think he just does stuff and is going to go and win a Grand Slam. I don't think we're going to see him win Wimbledon, for instance, this fortnight.

35:14David Law: Whereas I think he might have the ability to do quite a lot more than he's done so far, but he kind of has to have an accomplishment, a little one, so he can move to the next stage. which my mind still goes back to what he was like against Nadal in that Barcelona match last year, maybe, where he just couldn't play. He couldn't play. He was Nadal, his hero. He couldn't play. And I think that as he's moved along and got some other achievements under his belt, he's handling things better. Today, he handled that really well, probably because he's come through some other challenges. doesn't fill me with great confidence that he's going to be a threat to Novak Djokovic in the next round for the same sort of reasons.

35:57Matt Roberts: Yeah, and because Djokovic told everyone in press that Flavio Caboli had had a hit with his son, Stefan, the other day. It's just not giving fangs, that, is it? No. What was it Djokovic said? That he's going to get the tactical plan from Stefan, from their hit together. It's quite a funny line. look I mentioned

36:23Catherine Whitaker: Caballi's return the other day which he really rates he's been talking it up and I was interested to see it come up against the Cilic serve well Cilic against Draper was winning 78 % of his first serve points through two sets today against Caballi he was only winning 63

36:38David Law: do you think Cilic was serving similarly or markedly worse?

36:43Catherine Whitaker: I mean in terms of that's points won on first serve so So that's when the first serve is going in. Caballi was handling it better than Draper. Now, whether that's because Cilic wasn't hitting his spots like he was against Draper, I'm not exactly sure. But I always think, you know, the returner has some impact on how you're serving, right? And Caballi seemed to be on that serve. It did improve for Cilic as the match went on, but I was impressed by Caballi there in those first two sets to be able to do that. And the match did just look a bit... It looked like what a match should look like between an up-and-coming, exciting talent like Caballi and, what is Cilic, 37?

37:24Catherine Whitaker: 36. 36. He looks about 46. Just, you know, off a surgery not that long ago. Like, that's more like, today was what I expected Draper Cilic to look like, you know. And in the end, it happened a couple of rounds later, but it has ended up happening. Caballi had some amazing support. The vibes he had from these two blokes in the front row was extraordinary. I don't know who they are, but they were making a hell of a lot of noise. And then he had a huge support camp with his team as well and some very moving scenes at the end with his father in tears and hugs all round. It was really, really, really nice scenes.

38:06Catherine Whitaker: And this is a great run from Kabali. It absolutely is. got a good stat for you in the difference in experience between Kabaly and Novak Djokovic this was told to me by the ITF Kabaly has won 63 matches

38:28Matt Roberts: oh dear this isn't

38:29Catherine Whitaker: Djokovic today reached his 63rd Grand Slam quarter final it's just unbelievable and you know with the comments of practicing with Djokovic's son to me it is giving

38:48David Law: 2-3-1 by the way I know Charlie Ecclesher from The Athletic did an interview with Cabali fairly recently and found out what a good footballer he was and I think that there was a real crossroads for Cabali there so yeah worth a read of that

39:06Matt Roberts: yeah I did learn a lot about him I like it a lot about Flavio Caboli he's a really stylish player and a great athlete I just like fangs and I'm I'm yet to feel them but I feel like Lorenzo Mazzetti's grown some fangs over the last couple of years so it's possible and that

39:25Catherine Whitaker: match could have got away from him Cilic was coming back at him he was playing a lot better in that forward set and he resisted him he did well he had great backhand to save a break point at one point the tie break you know was i think mazzetti is a good

39:39David Law: comparison because i think i think that goes with the incremental thing that i'm talking about because that has been the same trajectory hasn't it for mazzetti needs to do it to believe it's possible

39:50Matt Roberts: yep absolutely good good luck in a couple of days time flavio

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41:52Matt Roberts: OK, let's move on to the women's draw and the matches that we've seen there today. Let's start with Miran Drava and her very comprehensive victory over Emma Navarro's 6-2, 6-3, watched on by Roger Federer, who was absolutely top of her list of people that she wanted to watch her play tennis. And yet she couldn't look at him because she knew it would make her tight. tight and she said actually at one point she did glimpse up she let herself peek and it did make her tight and she lost about five points in a row she said on court one of my dreams was to see you in real life and then she complimented merka's outfit it was it was an incredibly charming interview after the match charming is the word isn't it for obviously hearing her speak and getting to know her but also watching her the whole Mira Andreeva experience is charming how can you not be charmed by her and her tennis I think she's one of the best watches in the sport

42:53David Law: really just generally she's she's one of the best news developments for tennis in the last three years both in terms of how she plays the sport and gives you something different she's one of those players you can watch win a really comfortable match and still enjoy it it's not just uneventful because she's got such a stylish game and then you also know that you're likely to get an interview to listen to afterwards and it's going to give you something that you didn't know that'll make you smile i mean we we catherine and i went to her press conference we were two of about seven journalists in there because there was so much going on elsewhere the the dimitrov cinema match was going on at the time but you know every question is an answer that you just you're noting it down because it's you're remembering her and she looks like she wants to

43:43Catherine Whitaker: be there yeah her her press conference answers are a bit like her rallies you know like there's just just kind of got everything in them you know they might there'll be a really smart point there'll be some humor and and the rallies she plays I mean honestly it like in the same point you might see a drop shot, a slice forehand, a backhand down the line a lob, a looped ball like she can kind of do everything and that's why I go Tamir Andreva matches for those for those rallies, I just love watching her construct points and there was a lot of that today against Emma Navarro because Navarro hasn't got a big powerful game.

44:24Catherine Whitaker: She's a point constructor. Exactly, so it's similar but Andreva was just a lot better at it and And I do still think the point that Pam has made and we've made, you know, the forehand. Can you rush it and can she generate enough pace off it? I think opponents later in this tournament will maybe ask those questions that Navarro couldn't today. But she was great. I thought she displayed a lot of poise in that centre court experience. Her anticipation continues to be absolutely mind bending. She just knows where opponents are hitting the ball. The points she played to break at the start of the second set, a perfect illustration of that.

45:06Catherine Whitaker: She was just reading where Navarro was going to go and just there. Yeah, I thought she was really good today. I know Hannah and Vicky were on centre court and loved the Mira Andreva experience that they got as well. After that point that she played, anticipating, I picked them out in the crowd and they were looking at me and I was looking at them. and it was just a kind of appreciation of, yeah, this is really, really good. She let 4-1 become 4-3 in the second set. I think that was when she let herself peek at Roger Federer.

45:37Matt Roberts: Right. She's just slightly lost her way there for a little bit.

45:40Catherine Whitaker: But, yeah, really impressive. And, again, I've been banging on about it, but I've been looking at Wimbledon champions and players that do well at Wimbledon and thinking about they either tend to have power or touch. And she's got both. You know, that serve that she hits now is big. It's a big serve. It's dominant when she's rolling with it. She can crack power on the backhand. The forehand is a question mark, as I said, in terms of power. But touch and craft, she's got that too. It does feel like a combination that can win here. And she's got this slice forehand going on that's incredibly effective.

46:20Matt Roberts: Both as a kind of keeping the opponent on their toes because they don't know which shot is coming, but also it's just an effective shot in itself and it helps her protect the relative weakness of the forehand. I'm desperate to see somebody that can go really hard and flat into that forehand and test it, or at least hard into the forehand. At this point, I am thinking about Andree Vyshontek in the semi-finals. I'm already kind of picturing that match and wanting it. because it's, yeah.

46:54Catherine Whitaker: I mean, Bencic in the next round, a little bit. I certainly think more than Navarro. She's not got enormous power, Bencic, but she takes the ball early and she can rush you that way. And I think she will pressure the Androva forehand in a way that maybe it hasn't been yet on the grass at Wimbledon this year.

47:16Matt Roberts: 7-6-4 for Bencic over Alexandrova on court one. today matt was delayed making his way to the djokovic match when djokovic looked like he was in serious trouble on center because quote bencic alexandreva has become incredible it did though it really did with bencic trying to serve it out

47:40Catherine Whitaker: it was like a 13 minute game um she had so many match points and the thing about alexandreva is she plays every point the same like it doesn't really matter what the score is she's just doing the same thing and there was this kind of it was like she was blind to what the score was because she was hitting ridiculous shots up the line to save match point and you're like your match point down and you're going for that and yet she was landing them every time and Bengshic the stress on her face she did that funny thing of shouting at her team calm down

48:20oh that's relatable she gave him a very sarcastic thank you after she lost the point she was feeling it in this nervous energy she had

48:31Catherine Whitaker: whereas Aleksandr was just hitting the tennis ball and it was landing in but then she did end up breaking Aleksandr but then Benchik broke her in the next game there's quite a lot of neck cords towards the end that went in Benchik's favour which did I think help her but it just became great. It became really, really compelling. I think it took her six match points in the end to get over the line. And that's a good win. You know, Alexandra, we always talk about how she doesn't deliver her tour form at slams. She's started to show it a little bit more. She's been a factor in terms of like she's played golf and she's played Bengtjik here to get to the quarterfinals.

49:14Catherine Whitaker: You know, like she's been there. I don't think she's played her best in those matches either, but she's not bombed out in the first or second round. And she was up in that first set. Bengtjic had to come back. I think that's a good win for Bengtjic, who is kind of a threat on the surface because of the way she can take the ball early and rush players.

49:37David Law: That would be a nice match.

49:38Catherine Whitaker: I'm looking forward to that one. I really am. Stylish match. Two backhand listers. Backhand list is having quite a tournament.

49:46Matt Roberts: The other quarterfinal set-up today on the women's side. It's almost as if players with good backhands are good tennis players. I know. I knew someone was going to say Adam Bogdan. Victoria Goljewicz. Sorry. The other quarterfinal set-up today on the women's side, Iger Svjontek against Lubmilla Samsonova. Svjontek getting the better of Towson, 6-4, 6-1. Once she was down in the opening set of this, David, once she got the break back then and got her teeth into this match, it was a jog towards the finish line, really.

50:23David Law: Yeah, I didn't get to watch it in depth and up close, mainly because Sina Dimitrov was going on at the same time and there were a lot of other press conferences. But I saw that early break of serve. And I did wonder, you know, Tassin hit such a clean ball, could she be one of the big hitters that could rush Svantec? and but my I felt reassured on behalf of Chvantek because of her approach because she's decided she's going to rein it in and not try to just meet fire with fire all the time use her immense skill set and incredible movement because these are things that Towson for instance just doesn't have and that turnaround I think tells you Svantec's in a good place yeah it was a very

51:13Catherine Whitaker: slow kind of sloppy start to the match from both of them they were both really struggling with their serve Towson went up a break Svantec broke back Towson went up a break again and I was at that stage thinking uh-oh like this could be one of those matches this doesn't look like the Collins match was kind of what I was thinking you know but then once she got the break back Svantec went to three all squeezed through that first set a little bit Towson I don't think was feeling great she didn't look particularly well she was clutching her throat it looked like she was maybe struggling to breathe she just looked low energy a little bit but the point I would shout out is the point that Shiontek played to break for three one in the second set after that she then just raced to the finish but that one defense like she was just defending scrambling running from side to side not trying to hit out from the corners putting the ball in an awkward spot and I imagine Igor Shvantec fans just watching that like we used to pray for times like this you know like she's using her skill set as David said and forcing the other you know forcing her opponent to win the point rather than losing it herself you know it was a real marked difference I think to the way she's played on this surface at Wimbledon in the past and if she's doing things like that combined with the clean attacking tennis that we've seen at times this tournament, that's a really great combination.

52:40Catherine Whitaker: And, you know, she'll probably need it again in the next round because she's playing another big hitter.

52:48Matt Roberts: Yeah, I'm just reading, well, just browsing through the Eagis Rantech press conference transcript, not one question about strawberry pasta. No. Biggest shock of the day.

52:58David Law: Call that growth.

53:00Matt Roberts: yes Iga Shontek's next round will be against Lyudmila Samsonova finally, finally making the breakthrough into a Grand Slam quarterfinal, she's been a factor on tour she's been winning titles for a long time and yet most people that only pick up tennis at Grand Slams and there's a lot of them and I don't mind it, I only follow golf at the majors that's an important cohort of tennis fans isn't it, they probably haven't even heard of Lyudmila Samsonova This is absolutely huge for her. Jessica Boutas-Monero, 7-5, 7-5, and David, you chatted to her afterwards.

53:36David Law: Yeah, and she saved a set point in that first set as well. And, you know, I really thought at that stage I probably would trust Boutas-Monero more because of Samsonova's record. I'm thinking there's got to be a lot of scar tissue here at Grand Slam level for a player who's done as much as she has in terms of threat at the tour level and has so often just bombed out at the Grand Slam. So I've never been to a press conference of hers before. And I thought, well, now's the time. And it was also in room two, which is the smaller one, which was a really nice opportunity to meet her. and as we're walking in there was a little chat going on outside the press conference room and I didn't realise I'd just walked straight past Ludmilla Samsonova because she wasn't dressed like what I would think is dressed like a tennis player she's wearing a sort of sweatshirt like a blue sweatshirt she just looked like she was somebody who's just come back from the gym like your normal social gym

54:42Matt Roberts: some players do look so different when they're not on the court

54:45David Law: I didn't recognise her at all and I realised, oh, there she is, we'd better go in quickly. And I thought, I wonder what they're talking about. Anyway, we're sitting in there and the moderator came in and said, guys, a request from Ludmilla, could you please not ask her about her next opponent? And it wasn't even played yet, Svantec against Towson. Could you please not ask her about that match? Because she doesn't know they're playing one another. she had no clue who were her prospective

55:19Matt Roberts: quarterfarm opponents when is she going to find out is this an Adria Manorino situation tomorrow she said

55:24David Law: and it was really interesting it's not superstition it's just because I mean we're in this difficult situation we've got to speak to Liv Mellon try to get to know her obviously there's this huge match going on and we're not even allowed to ask her an either or question about the prospective opponents but look that's what she's asked for so we're going to respect that. But towards the end of the press conference, one of the journalists said, why is that that you don't want to know your... She says, I've always been like this. She says, it's because I don't want to have that in my head yet. Because if I do, I'll be thinking about it all the time and my head will basically explode as the gist of what she was saying.

56:02David Law: And we said, OK, so when are you going to find out? She said, tomorrow. I'll find out tomorrow. So OK, you know, so we carried on and tried to get to know her a little bit without asking that question and I think even that itself was instructive she was so nice she's so sort of um patient with the questions and trying to answer them in a in a positive way in a helpful way um and you know I I just I got the sense that I mean this is the biggest moment of her career she said she said look it's equal the biggest win but this is far the most emotional you know and she said grand slam i said what why do you think you've been so successful on the tour but you have yet to translate it into grand slam success until now she said i think i think even the word grand slam just feels such a big deal you know and and i haven't basically i haven't been able to relax i think is is the gist of it um and so this was this is just monumental for her to get through.

57:06David Law: She talked about how Maria Sharapova and Garbini Magarutha are players she used to watch when she was a junior here and really inspired her. She really loved watching them. And yeah, this is somebody and they said, how do you keep it quiet? How do you sort of not find out who these abandons are? She says, she says, well, nobody contacts me on social media. Nobody even knows who I am. I said, so it's really easy. thinking, crikey I've never heard anything quite like this before couldn't be me I'd be Carlos Alcraz staring at the drawer

57:45Matt Roberts: people are so fascinating it's like people that don't want to find out the sex of their baby cannot get my head around that I totally understand the logic and respect it get her saying I would obsess about it I would obsess over not knowing I'd obsess over all the possible people it could be, scenarios, the wandering. Yeah, human minds is just fascinating.

58:08David Law: She was also very funny when asked about the strawberry pasta, because she was born in Italy.

58:12Matt Roberts: They're not asking you Shontek about the strawberry pasta now. They're asking...

58:18Catherine Whitaker: What's I'm saying about? They've gone off-paste. Because she was born in Italy and nationalised...

58:24David Law: I can't believe it. Can't believe you do that with pasta.

58:30Matt Roberts: None of us can. So they couldn't, Jasmine Paolini wasn't in to ask. I told you that was the next evolution, asking all the Italians. I didn't think of Sam Zonover. It was Fabio Caboli asked. I don't think he was, was he? Right, does she have a chance against Fiontech?

58:46David Law: Yes, she has a chance. I mean, she's such a big hitter. But I think what's more likely, I'm sorry to say, is that she gets nervous and Svantec makes her play a lot of balls and she misses too much. I think that's more likely.

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1:00:08Matt Roberts: Right, tomorrow's order of play. Starting on center court where there are only two matches tomorrow, we've reached that stage. Two matches on the two main show courts. It starts at 1.30 on centre, as per usual, with Irina Sabalenka against Laura Siegmund. Go with God, Irina. What percentage chance are we giving Siegmund here? 25. I think she'd sign for that. Matt? A little lower. 20? Yeah, let's go 20. I... yeah. OK, Cam Norrie, second on centre against Carlos Alcaraz. what percentage chance does Norrie have? I don't know if I like this new percentage chance feature. Well, there's no point in me asking who's going to win because you're going to say Sabalenka and Alcaraz.

1:00:57Matt Roberts: What am I, an excitement rating meter to you? An accurate one. You're just going to say Sabalenka and Alcaraz. That's no fun for anyone. I'm not sure flailing over a percent is that fun. Make it fun. God damn it, make it fun. 30. Thank you, David. No, I think lower than that. I'm a David, I think. I could see Norrie causing him a few problems and Alcaraz winning. Sure, but isn't that 20 % as well? Causing a few problems and Alcaraz winning. Same percent that Fanini had. Give me a percent, goddammit, Matt. 20. Okay. Number one court. You know we're carrying on.

1:01:40David Law: We know that.

1:01:41Matt Roberts: I'll go to David first. David's more amenable. Yeah, let's do it. Buys you some time, Matt. Taylor Fritz at 1pm against Karen Hashanov.

1:01:50David Law: Oh, this is going to be an absolute slugfest, isn't it?

1:01:54Matt Roberts: Yeah, 100 % chance of being long.

1:01:56David Law: Yeah, I do think it's going to be four sets for Fritz. But in terms of, you know, I'd say it's a 65-35 job for Fritz.

1:02:09Matt Roberts: Okay, that's a man that understands the assignment. Matt? I understand, I just don't like it.

1:02:17Catherine Whitaker: yeah Fritz for me I think as I said before he's he's not beaten Hachinov and I think this is a great chance to show how much his game has evolved in the time since they last played and he wants to do that doesn't he desperately and he he keeps saying he's playing really well this tournament and I I kind of like Taylor Fritz's analysis and self-analysis and I I kind of believe him when he says it and I think he takes action of in in four as well

1:02:47Matt Roberts: good answer not the question I asked

1:02:53Matt Roberts: 70 30 okay for it sorry for this additional blow but the chat loves the percentage game oh yeah well we shouldn't be you know shouldn't be led by what by what the people like because they all want to get in that's a dangerous game I think I've realised why you're grouchy about this game I refuse to answer the next question I refuse second on court one tomorrow Amanda Anasimova against Anastasia Pavlyacek doesn't matter just get over the line David honest percentages please

1:03:29David Law: I think this is close I think 55-45 for Anasimova I think this is really close

1:03:36Matt Roberts: 55-45 for the mood of this podcast tomorrow We've already had a downer episode today We can't have another I've said she'll win For what it's worth Would you sign for that? Sure But I actually feel a little more confident for Inissa Moe A 60-40?

1:03:55Catherine Whitaker: Let's do it Wow Yeah That's good Interesting

1:03:58Matt Roberts: I appreciate you getting on board with my game She's been constantly under threat on serve

1:04:05Catherine Whitaker: this tournament, which is definitely something that I think she can try and improve in this match. Even Zara Zua had a lot of looks at her serve, Galfi and obviously Noskova. I think that's a dangerous area for Anisimova and Pavlyuchenkova can jump on returns and take the ball early. But she's found herself just enough when she's needed it. She was great from the ground against Noskova. she's got an amazing record when she wins the first set at the moment Anissa Mova, she's on a very long streak of winning matches when she's won the first set so that feels potentially crucial as well

1:04:44Matt Roberts: You can go with God as well You and Arena Day 9 of Wimbledon We have our mascots to say hello to Hello Phoebe, Hello Maisie David's lovely mascot, Hello Roger We should have showed Roger a picture of Roger when he was here

1:05:01David Law: yeah why didn't we think of that yeah that was a bit good god there was a lot going on

1:05:08Matt Roberts: he put some willow content up this week did you bring that up when he came and shook your hand David

1:05:14David Law: I didn't more willow content Roger that was an amazing moment we had John McEnroe and Tim Henman over there David frantically trying to set up StreamYard over here Cameron Matthew here Reggie over there through walks Roger Federer and suddenly like the whole energy of the place changed and he came over he shook David's hand said it was nice to see him it was lovely actually said hello to everyone he was like you didn't used to have that grey hair no you didn't did some bants over there with with Henman and McEnroe and then he was taking pictures over here with members of the public I think just as he was about to leave and Reggie, who was behind a fence.

1:06:04David Law: And the hedge. Yeah. Seized his opportunity, waited for the perfect moment

1:06:09Matt Roberts: and said, Roger, can I have a picture? It's the most iconic selfie you've ever seen. Yeah, it's unbelievable. And Federer went, oh, I don't know how. He said, sure, but I don't know how. And Reggie was like, I do. I do. And he repositioned and he got, and the Federer's head's just sticking up over this H with a beaming smile and then Reggie's got the best smile on his face. It's going to go in our newsletter. That photo, I'll pop it on our Instagram as well at the Tennis Podcast. On Instagram, we'll just search for us and the link to subscribe to the newsletter is in our show notes. It's worth it, folks.

1:06:50Matt Roberts: Take my word for that. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. and Matt if you can bear it could I have some shout outs please we have Matthew O'Shea from Cork, Ireland but living in Amsterdam hello Matthew, hi Matthew we love Matthews here on the Tennis Podcast

1:07:12David Law: we've got a couple of them in our vicinity and they're both excellent and so are you

1:07:17Catherine Whitaker: and Matthew went to the Rotterdam tournament this year and he saw and he shouted out a match which I'd forgotten about but it was excellent Alcaraz Hercach

1:07:26Matt Roberts: it was unexpectedly excellent it was excellent he says it's underrated top 5 match of the year this was Alcaraz's bright pink nose strip era he won the title

1:07:37Catherine Whitaker: good tournament Rotterdam it is yeah I like that place

1:07:41Matt Roberts: yeah I think that low key is one of the best tour matches of the year definitely Matthew thank you for reminding us about it thanks Matthew we've also got Michael Petzalis from Quebec In Quebec. Hi, Michael.

1:07:55David Law: In Canada. Michael Shtick, who I've seen wandering about here.

1:07:59Matt Roberts: Did he shake your hand?

1:08:00David Law: No, but he said hello.

1:08:03Matt Roberts: But he's got a firm handshake when he does shake your hand.

1:08:07Catherine Whitaker: Michael says, my son played Diallo several times in Juniors. Wow. He's a very nice young man. His son? He's saying Diallo, but I suspect also his... Oh, yes, he says, as is my son, Andreas.

1:08:25Matt Roberts: lovely any more Michaels just one more Michael Michael Chang there you go

1:08:30David Law: yeah he's probably having a

1:08:32Matt Roberts: tough time at the moment isn't he still coach of Keanu Shikori

1:08:37David Law: that is probably true yeah

1:08:41Matt Roberts: for the time being anyway Michael thank you and finally we have Kathy Kyles from New Jersey oh and there was a Bruce reference in today's show. There was. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Kathy with a C.

1:08:59Catherine Whitaker: Kathy with a K and a Y.

1:09:03Matt Roberts: Same church, different pew.

1:09:05Catherine Whitaker: And Kathy says the highlight of attending the US Open last year was meeting David and having a picture with him.

1:09:13David Law: Oh, Kathy. Thank you very much. I really appreciate that. Kathy Kyles. Oh, lovely.

1:09:18Matt Roberts: Excellent name. And Kathy is... Kathy's my real name, actually. Well, no, it's not. Catherine's my real name.

1:09:25David Law: Like Cathy Rinaldi.

1:09:27Matt Roberts: When my mum came to the live show, she had to remind... We were having different conversations. I don't know which way to go. Sorry. When my mum came to the live show, she had to keep reminding herself to introduce herself as Catherine's mum. Right, yeah. When actually she's never called me Catherine in her life.

1:09:44David Law: Yeah.

1:09:46Matt Roberts: But both Catherine and Cathy are good, as is Cathy Rinaldi.

1:09:50David Law: So I was right. I had a sudden brain freeze as to whether that was actually a correct name.

1:09:54Matt Roberts: No, everyone on the chat is screaming Cathy Rinaldi and probably screaming at me to shut up. So let's call it a podcast. Thank you to Wimbledon for letting us sit here and be sad about Grigor Dimitrov for the last hour. Thank you to The Athletic. We are proudly part of The Athletic Podcast Network. We'll, of course, be back tomorrow. Look across our socials, subscribe to our newsletter and do subscribe to our YouTube channel and you'll get alerts about when we're going live. but it will be at the end of play tomorrow. So, yeah, the best thing to do is to subscribe to the channel. Smash that like and subscribe button.

1:10:29Matt Roberts: Folks, thank you ever so much for joining us tonight. I know it's been a tough one, but hopefully we've worked through this together. Yeah, we actually did need that. Yeah, me too. It's helped. And Grigor, we wish you well. Thank you for watching, for listening. Hopefully we'll see you and speak to you tomorrow.

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