Live from Wimbledon Day 9 - Djokovic keeps dream of 25 alive

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1:16Matt Roberts: Hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast live from Wimbledon and presented by Barclays, the official banking partner of Wimbledon. It is day nine of the tournament, a day that has just ended in dramatic and exhausting fashion on centre court with 39-year-old Novak Djokovic winning the longest quarterfinal in Wimbledon history. Five hours and 15 minutes for the win over Felix Auger-Aliassime, 7-6 in the fifth set, just minutes before the curfew was due to hit. David and Matt were both in there, in the press seats on centre court. David, how's he doing this?

2:05David Law: It is absolutely astonishing what he's doing, I think. It was an ups and down sort of match. I mean, that was not the cleanest Novak Djokovic performance you will see. part of that oh close the place down and let us talk

2:25Catherine Whitaker: come on matt sorry make sure you take all your belongings with you we hope you've enjoyed your day here at wimbledon wish you a pleasant and safe journey home thank you i want to hear david thank you right well the thing is i don't think he's really

2:44David Law: capable of producing the sort of level he produced in the fifth set for really really long periods of time anymore and i think that that is perfectly normal um also he was playing an opponent that was pushing him to the absolute limits i think i think felix social is saying played pretty much as well as he can and and deserves great credit and respect for for taking it that close down to the wire after five hours but the fact of the matter is Djokovic still found it he's nearly 40 and he found it he found the level when he needed it to get the win and there were several moments in the match that I just found myself open-mouthed that that he was sort of winning the points and and you know when I thought maybe he'd gone then there were moments where I thought he'd got it and he suddenly let it go.

3:38David Law: And, I mean, an example being that in the... Once the first set had gone and he sort of found his way back at the end of the second set, but too late. You know, he was struggling for his rhythm and he couldn't quite break back in order to take the second set. And then in the third set, he'd got it again. and he raced through that set. Fourth set, he was two live up and honestly, I thought he was just going to run through the finish line and he threw in a love 40, broken to love game. And again, Felix pushed him to make these things happen. But the fact is that when they got into the fifth set and it was 3-4 on Felix Orgelia's team serve, the crowd rose as a standing ovation and sent goosebumps through everybody, certainly me, Matt, and I think the players.

4:37David Law: And that then produced the energy that got them to the finish line. And it's that kind of thing, you know, how can you play for five hours when you're 39? Adrenaline and match management and all those years of experience.

4:51Matt Roberts: Yeah, that's the problem, isn't it? How's it going to feel when the adrenaline fades? We'll come on to that. We'll do the look ahead to the remains of Novak Djokovic against Yannick Sinner in a few days time but I feel like the match should get get more dues did you did you did you enjoy it as a tennis match like level wise how good was it I thought it was

5:13Catherine Whitaker: good yeah I think I think David's absolutely right it was in and out it wasn't always brilliant but the highs were so high and and dramatic as well I mean we haven't even talked about the incredible first set tie break that went on so long. I think Argentina managed to score three goals in the World Cup in the duration of this tie break. I can't remember the tie break. Which was kind of splitting, you know, sort of splitting viewing in the media restaurant where I watched this. I can't believe that football match happened

5:42Matt Roberts: during the same tennis match that we've just... Yeah, yeah. It's... It feels like that match took up most of Wimbledon.

5:52Catherine Whitaker: Unbelievable. And, you know, like that was a tie break where Urjeli Asim had his chances. He had multiple set points, and on a couple of them, Novak Djokovic hit great serves. There was one when he shanked a ball, Djokovic, on Felix's set point, and it still went in. And he just thought when Djokovic won that set, it was going to be vital for him, because to expend that much energy and not come away with the set at almost 40 years old could have been a disaster, but he did get it. And then over the next few sets, as David describes, there were moments where he was striking the ball Djokovic where I thought, oh, well, he's beating Yannick Sinner in a few days' time.

6:28Catherine Whitaker: Like, his ball striking just went to a level kind of that we saw in Australia. And it was like, well, he can do anything he wants with the ball. Down the line, cross-court, it's doing exactly what he wants.

6:39Matt Roberts: Are we talking third set here? Mostly the third set.

6:41Catherine Whitaker: That third set was Djokovic's peak of power. Absolutely. When the roof had come on, and I actually thought the roof would help Orgelia see him, and it was a surprise to me that it was actually Djokovic that improved so much when the roof came on, especially given the rant he'd had at the end of the second set. Yeah, we'll come on to that. So that was a period where I thought the quality was really good. Urjali Asim did really well to win the fourth set and the tie break. I thought his tennis stood up really well in that tie break. And then the fifth was just a treat out on centre court. I mean, Djokovic, again, I want to highlight going love 30 down at four all.

7:18Catherine Whitaker: And he finds four first serves and just gets himself out of the game. It's just such a skill to lock in in that moment and find the serves that he needs. And then the tie break, he just went into a mode where you just knew he wasn't going to miss. He was dictating, but he was also anticipating where Orjel Yassim was going to play. His defence was extraordinary. There were a couple of points where he was sliding at the back of the court, and he just had this look in his eye that he was not going to lose this match. and I think the defining image for me will be a point very near the end where both players at the end of it ended up using their rackets as kind of walking sticks to hold themselves up.

8:02Catherine Whitaker: Djokovic because I think he actually needed it as a walking stick to hold himself up, so gassed as he was at the end of this point, and Urjali has seemed just in disbelief about how good this guy is still down the other end. You've broken, wasn't he? What do I have to do? You know, I've thrown everything at him and he's still got the answers. It's like Mexico at the Aztec every other night. Nice.

8:26Matt Roberts: Yeah, extraordinary. He was never ahead in this match, Felix Orgelia Seam. For both of you, and I don't know if you've had a chance to discuss this, probably not. You've hot-footed it straight from centre court. How many moments for each of you were there in this match where you felt like Felix Orgelia Seam was the likelier winner? if any.

8:48David Law: There weren't many for me. Listen, I spend quite a lot of Grand Slams thinking, is this the day that Novak Djokovic gets old? And we had one at the French Open when he's two sets to love up and he gets drawn back by Joao Fonseca. And I thought if he lost a second five-set match at a Grand Slam to a guy who's not Alcaraz and Sinner, I thought, you know, maybe I'm going to be coming to some conclusions here I kind of I don't accept really the Fonseca one because he hadn't played much tennis it's like it's clay I thought if it happened here that would be a a bit of an alarm bell for me um and there were some moments I think early in the fifth when I just thought well if Felix stays with him and then really can strike gold on the forehand maybe it's there for him and what interested me though is well that first of all that three four game the standing ovation just got something out of Djokovic I mean look Felix was jumping around on his toes as well he was also energized by it at the start of the the fifth set tie break Felix sort of shouted to the crowd because he just held and he was like come on get behind me now you know and the whole place was going wild but it was when Djokovic was weathering the forehand in the tie break like Felix has got the shots he wants to hit he's got the middle of the court to dictate and he couldn't knock the door down.

10:18David Law: He was hitting them in the corners, Djokovic was getting them back. He'd hit the other corner, Djokovic got it back deep and eventually there'd be a missed forehand and that happened a couple of points that just turned this whole thing. And so no, it was tennis-wise when Djokovic hits his level, I'm afraid Felix Ossiali's team just does not have that level. so no I didn't think he was going to win in the end but blimey he gave it a good go

10:49Matt Roberts: It's crazy kind of isn't it for there to have been a 5 hour 15 minute match which goes to a deciding set tyre break it's literally on paper as close as a match can be he ran Novak Djokovic as close as you can and yet I think most people would probably give the same answer to that of like always right the way through feeling like Djokovic is likely going to win this

11:10David Law: And I did say, by the way, Ogierle-Semmin-Faub in the predictions before, because I really didn't think that Djokovic was going to find this level tonight. Not like this, because I haven't seen it on grass in such a long time. He hit the flow state of his game for periods. They didn't last that long, but they were just unweatherable.

11:33Matt Roberts: So is your feeling that as much as this is a negative thing for his physicality and recovery, we'll come on to that fascinating comments from him in that on-court interview, that's somewhat balanced out by the positives for his form and level that he's found tonight?

11:52David Law: It's a good question because I think that he proved it's there and what he needs to beat Sinner is probably going to be Australian Open level. And he didn't have that all the way through that match.

12:02Matt Roberts: Sin is not playing as well as in Australia. No, he's not. You're right.

12:06David Law: So it's there. I mean, can he get himself into this type of match where he can have a couple of slumps and throw a couple of sets away and then redline it and just take him out?

12:18Catherine Whitaker: He does not need to play well for five sets. No, that's it. He needs to win three. That's the way I think he has to be looking at that match because, yes, I do think he found some level today at times. but he took something away from himself as well because he spent five and a bit hours on court. He gets the extra day off, which I think is huge in this scenario. I don't know whether it's the difference maker but I feel a lot better about his chances that he gets to play Friday rather than Thursday. I do think that is helpful. But look, it's a constant balance for Djokovic between level and physicality And I think a lot of the times in the last few years, the physicality has got the better of him.

13:06Catherine Whitaker: It was only really, it's only really been in Australia where he's beaten Alcaraz and Sinner in back to back years where he's managed it on his. I know this is one of his favorite courts, but his favorite court is in Melbourne. And, you know, I guess I have to lean on the side that this has probably ended up taking something away from his chances. Just because it's so long on court. And he was stretching a lot and bashing out his legs a lot. And I think David's right. He got through on adrenaline. And he might be able to find sparks of that against Sinner. But it's such a tall order.

13:44Matt Roberts: Have you seen that Al Karaz was watching?

13:45Catherine Whitaker: yes and asking uh questions yeah in some instagram live stream yeah and alex correct your instagram

13:53Matt Roberts: live carlos alcaraz was was dropping comments which is amazing just before we do more look ahead quickly on the roof closure so this happened after two sets it's one set a piece felix or gelie sim has just won the second set it's around 7 30 in the evening there's a good amount of of light certainly if you're walking out and about there's loads of light left I know it's darker on court because it's closed in neither player wanted the roof to be closed at this point not even Felix Auger Aliasim who plays his best indoors albeit not in these necessarily very specific indoor conditions but it's it's Novak Djokovic that is particularly het up about this decision and is very vocal about it he's saying to Denise Parnell the tournament referee who's explaining the decision.

14:44Matt Roberts: You're so proud of your rules, but you have no idea what they are. I mean, he's really going Ostopenko about this, David. And I think most people watching were like, okay, well, he's got a point, hasn't he? Like it is light out there. This is an outdoor tournament. I believe the sort of unofficial policy is if they don't think they can finish the set in those conditions, they don't want to start it in those conditions. because of the interruption.

15:14David Law: Yeah, I went to the club to ask for a verdict on that and that's what they said. And that basically the view they've been getting from players is that it's starting to get difficult with the light around 8.20, 8.30 at the moment. And therefore, can you guarantee in your mind that you can get a set in in an hour? I personally felt that was going too early. I think that they should have let that set go and let it be played outdoors. It is an outdoor tournament and I think that the likelihood is they could have got that in without affecting play adversely.

15:55Matt Roberts: Do you agree with the policy that you should try not to do it mid-set? Because on the basis of that policy the rate that match had been going is reasonable to think that they weren't going to get it. a set in like it was going at over an hour a set it's it's whether you agree with the policy i

16:15David Law: think i understand the policy personally i wouldn't do it that way i like i want us to have as much outdoor tennis as can be played i think it's not fair to be stopping at the wrong score line you know i think that they've got to work out what the score line should be like should it be a three or situation but generally speaking I just feel like they should get as much tennis in as they as they can outdoors. Presumably Matt you agree? Of course.

16:48Matt Roberts: At the start of the fourth set I'm listening to I'm watching the match on the screen I'm getting the commentary they're talking about a potential golden set for Novak Djokovic at the start of the fourth he won what how many points in a row before dropping his own

17:05David Law: serve to love yeah that was first couple of games and then is that is that where it got away from

17:13Catherine Whitaker: him like is that in terms of the canister yes because it it was his own fault that he lost serve it wasn't like Orgelia Seem played a blinding game he hit a he had a backhand return to break at love 40 that that clipped the line and was a winner but before then it'd been a really ugly game from Djokovic out of nowhere like he had been timing the ball so sweetly for about half an hour at this point and I just thought he was going to race through that fourth set and he yeah he let it slip he gave it up I don't and that's that's what he does talk about now in terms of whether it be concentration dips or energy lulls or just periods of inconsistency that affects him more now than it used to that's one of the things he's battling with at this stage in his career and yeah if he is close to beating Sinnoh in a few days time and doesn't quite have it in him that will probably be the the period of the tournament where you go back and you circle in and saying well that was it you know if you'd got that done in in four and had an extra i don't know how long it would have been 90 minutes maybe in in his legs i don't quite know if it works like that but yes i i do agree that that was the period where it kind of got away and it it also then you know i think if orgeliacime had just kept his level the same at that period djokovic might have been able to still win in four but actually Orgelius seemed to his credit really raised it suddenly and suddenly Djokovic had his hands full again and was like having to really go some to try and win it so yeah it was a strange period of the match that because it did change things.

18:48Matt Roberts: It was a tough on-court interview for Rishi Passad wasn't it because Djokovic was in well he's in the same mode he's frankly been in for a while here but exacerbated by the fact that he's just played five hours and 15 minutes he's i mean he wrapped up the interview himself tried to do it politely by by saying by saying thanks very much my friend but like a sort of character in a pulp fiction movie before they blow your head off um he said he was you know a bit like charlie in the press conference the other way he was given a dolly of a question about you know his record of how many semi-finals he's reached here and he goes it's just another semi-final for me it's all business i have to recover i've got the best player in the world a few days time thank you and good night yeah he did it brilliantly and before that um he said i mean the most revealing line of the lot he said i i wish it was finals i wish that was the final uh but he said i wish it was the final so I don't have to worry about how the body will feel tomorrow yeah I mean the big benefit is that

19:58David Law: there are two days until that match um but yeah I bet he does wish it had been the final I mean because it probably felt like one you know one of those classic matches and he was in this same position in Australia in a way albeit closer to the title um admittedly he'd got to beat Sinner and Alcraz back to back but when you put in these sort of performances you sort of must think God, I bloody deserve it now. And actually, you've still got probably your two toughest ones to come. So it's not easy. I quite like Chippy Djokovic at the end of a tournament when he's just, you know. Being himself. He knows he's sort of battling father time here and the unrealisticness of actually being able to do this.

20:41David Law: And he's trying anyway. And he's just, he's got a kind of, yeah, like you say, be himself, be a nightmare. really for his coaching team and for but that's who he is and it and it's it makes it absolutely magnetic viewing the extra day makes it not impossible right that he could recover and

21:03Catherine Whitaker: pull out the level he needs that's my feeling at this stage yeah i i think that's big yeah if he's not injured then you know then he had a calf issue yeah a bit of a calf issue but it did

21:16Matt Roberts: have a medical time out he was stretching it out but then he did seem to be moving fine five hours

21:22Catherine Whitaker: later so it is ridiculous what he's doing like it is he is his level of tennis is just still so high like that's what gets me the skill level that he has like is ridiculous okay you can you You can say all you want about Orgelisim as the third seed here and what that says about the state of men's tennis. But he is the third seed. And OK, Alcaraz is out at the moment. But Djokovic's level and his skill level is still above that. And he can master these matches and ebbs and flows of them still so well. It's why I feel like he's like this grand master. Like he's conquered all aspects and he can pull on, whether it be the skills he's got or the aura he's got or the navigating five set matches.

22:20Catherine Whitaker: He can weave these things in and make it through tournaments still. It's absolutely crazy. No one has done this at this age so consistently. You know, like we've... This isn't just moments. It's not moments. It's sustained.

22:38David Law: Serial challenging for Grand Slam titles. Yeah. At nearly 40.

22:42Catherine Whitaker: at a time when the sport is so physical. Yeah. It's mind-boggling. Yeah.

22:50Matt Roberts: Yeah, agreed. What can you say? It's absolutely unreal. I feel like we probably need to chat a bit about Yannick Sinner before we do more throwing forward to that semi-final in three days' time. Straight sets for Sinner today, 7-5, 7-6, 6-3 over Jan Nanadstroff. I feel like straight sets doesn't quite tell the full story of this match. Strouf was in most Sinner service games and didn't take advantage, quite frankly. Look, we talked yesterday, didn't we, about how Strouf does tighten up at the end of sets. And players know that. Yannick Sinner absolutely knew that and was waiting for it and was there to turn the screw when Strouf got vulnerable.

23:37Matt Roberts: But if you're Novak Djokovic at your lowest ebb right now, looking for encouragement for three days time against, as he says, the best player in the world. I think there was encouragement there today against Drift. And I think there has been encouragement throughout this whole tournament. I don't think this was necessarily the step up in level that Yannick Sinner has been looking for. Not a disaster at all. he's won in straight sets but the average rank of his opponents his five opponents in this tournament so far has been 81 and okay he's won fairly comfortably but he's he's been far from the annex inner that we have become accustomed to watching i think anyway i don't know what you two

24:25David Law: think yeah the the assumption is he's going to have to find a higher level to win this title That may not be the case because he may run into a depleted Novak Djokovic and provide this sort of level of tennis and win. He may get to the final and just be kind of better than the opponent even if he doesn't reach his top level. My assumption is that he's going to need to step it up here. And yes, that wasn't streamlined, efficient Yannick Sinner just sweeping Jananadstrup aside. excited um his game makes life difficult for people he does hit a big ball and he comes at you and he was and he kind of when he went to set in a breakdown he got a break back you know that was very interesting to me there were lots of moments like that where actually it got messier than i expected it to um but he still got the job done and i think key for me is he didn't seem at least to suffer in the heat in quite the way that he has in the past.

25:25David Law: I know it's maybe not as hot as it has been, and he got it done in three sets. I think it's good that he did. It would have been interesting if he'd have gone into four. But, you know, it was 30-plus degrees today, and he won in straight sets. I think that's a good sign for him.

25:42Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, and the one shot that has been very good all-tournament has been his serve. I know that Strouf was in some service games today, absolutely, and pressuring. But when he needed it, the serve was there for him. And it was a bit like that earlier in the season as well. He didn't quite have his best ground stroke game, but his serve was working. And he was winning matches. And he's doing that at this Wimbledon. And I'm talking mostly about when he was set point down in the second set. Found a big serve. and in the tie break he was brilliant on serve. I'm not sure Struf got one back. And obviously Djokovic is a far better returner than Struf and can put some pressure on, but Sinner hits his spots well and has good pace on it and even Djokovic will struggle if Sinner is serving at his best.

26:34Catherine Whitaker: So that's there for him. But again, I was watching the early stages here and thinking the forehand is shonky. He's not timing it. He hasn't found that shot through five matches, and I really did think he would have done by now. I've been quite surprised that that hasn't come.

26:53Matt Roberts: Djokovic is the master of picking on a weakness.

26:56Catherine Whitaker: And the interesting thing about Djokovic as well is he loves serving to people's forehands. He loves the slide serve. Which works so well. Which works really well on the grass, and he does it on both sides as well. So that is going to be interesting, I think, to watch that in a few days' time. Yeah, he was asked sort of, how do you feel about your game, Sinner?

27:20Matt Roberts: And he just talked about his serve, how pleased he was with his serve. Like he's not, he knows what's going on here. This is not, I can't put my finger on it and I can't produce anything concrete or scientific. But when you look back on pitches, you know, I do a lot of stuff for our social media and I spend a lot of time on Getty looking for old pictures of things. When you look back on pictures of the 2024 US Open title run he had, where he obviously won the title, by the way, which he very may well do here, but obviously he had the drugs ban situation hanging over him at the time. It was unknown how that would end up panning out.

28:02Matt Roberts: It had all gone public on the eve of that tournament. you look back at pictures of him and he looks pretty joyless during that tournament it looks similar to that to me like when I look through the the Getty pictures of this tournament he looks similar I realize that's really unscientific but just vibe check is is just a bit off to me it could just be hangover from what happened in Paris it could be Carlos Alcaraz not being around it you know it could be something in his personal life it could be me reading too much into things It could be something to do with this tape he has on his shoulder.

28:38Matt Roberts: The fact that he's serving so well makes me suspect it's not that, but it could be something that affects the forehand swing and not the service motion.

28:50Catherine Whitaker: And it's just generally tough to know whether how he's feeling is causing him to play like this or the other way around. And he's playing badly, and this is a guy who knows how well he can play, and he's annoyed by it and maybe he doesn't have an explanation for it either. It's true, I really don't know, but the vibe has just been off. Every match I've just thought, okay, this is going to be the one where he's that little bit more convincing and the conviction's back and it just hasn't come and now we've got to crunch time of the tournament and I agree with David, he can probably still win this tournament without finding his best.

29:32Catherine Whitaker: I mean, we've seen Alcaraz win a Grand Slam without ever really finding his best tennis. These guys are so good that we probably emphasize the little flaws that they're showing more because we're used to seeing it be better. But it is very interesting. If you told me that we would have Yannick Sinner in the semifinals and Djokovic had just played a five-hour match and Alcaraz wasn't in the tournament if you told me that a couple of months ago I thought well that's Wimbledon's going to be feeling like a foregone conclusion to use those famous days for girls words like but it doesn't feel like that it feels there

30:13Matt Roberts: feels like there's jeopardy in this men's tournament yeah definitely yeah yeah absolutely I agree and you know sometimes Sin is so in a charming way but he's very guarded in press isn't it you have to be really reading between the lines to try and get something that every now and then you feel like he sort of accidentally says something he wasn't planning to say a bit like Charlie said that didn't he when he went to Hurlingham to to speak to him a couple of weeks ago before this tournament and he gave all those lines about how he had gone for tests after Paris and how it was the heat um and we asked Charlie about it and he said yeah I think he said a bit more than he was perhaps intending to.

30:54Matt Roberts: There was one night he was asked a sort of fun-ish question, which I very much supported, about the fact that all his team in the box have started wearing matching outfits. I wondered whether you had asked that question. It wasn't me. But it was a strong soldier. Well done.

31:13Matt Roberts: Because it's not always the same matching outfits. It's always the same that they are matching. That's clearly the deal now. But they change it up, dear team sinner. and he was asked whether there are any rules, whether Yannick decides what they wear or that they decide amongst themselves. And Yannick was like, no, no, no, no. They decide I'm not dictating what they wear. But then he said, except that they can't wear white caps. That's the only rule, he said. And he said, because I had a bad result when they wore white caps once. go back to the images of the Juan Manuel Sorundulo match in Paris.

31:55Matt Roberts: His team are all wearing white caps. Wow. So he's obviously said you can never wear white caps again, which could be a throwaway bit of fun amongst the team, or it could be I'm so traumatized by this. I never want to look up on a tennis court and see what I saw that day.

32:13David Law: You know? Can I ask? I was commentating on the Coco-Goth Pergoula match for quite a bit of this match, I had it on in the booth alongside me but was your sense that he wasn't too bothered by the heat?

32:28Matt Roberts: I don't think he was enjoying it and I think it was the stress was increasing as it went on, like if Striff had managed to get a set I'd have been all eyes on, I mean I was already watching it but I was that would have been interesting but it wasn't like Paris but then Paris he did sort of suddenly

32:53Catherine Whitaker: yes

32:53Matt Roberts: you know he was alright until he wasn't

32:55Catherine Whitaker: first two sets of Paris I was not thinking about what would end up happening yeah I thought he looked just not quite right and it was hard to diagnose is it the heat he said he felt physically good didn't he he was keen to say that But, yeah, I mean, look, it is still going to be hot, I think. It is. In a few days' time. And look, I don't think Djokovic wants that either. No. But. No. And, you know, notably today, the moments really where Djokovic found his best form, his best ball striking, were under the roof. And I don't think those are going to be the conditions on Friday. But would he sign for heat because he backs himself to handle it better than Sinner?

33:43Catherine Whitaker: I don't know. It's an interesting element to throw into that match. Would you, if you're Novak Djokovic and you're offered a Paris-like day? If I was offered that, I think I would. I don't know if it's going to be quite as hot here.

34:00Matt Roberts: so just sort of hot and unpleasant for everybody is the worst of all worlds maybe for Djokovic

34:05David Law: yeah I think that Djokovic wants to play clean yeah he needs to play well I think he wants to have a good ball there for him where he's feeling poised and balanced because he knows now he's got in at least in his mind Yannick Sinner fans may say well Yannick Sinner wasn't playing well enough or whatever it might be. But I think Djokovic would back himself in a hitting contest now, in a talent contest, he would back himself to win.

34:35Catherine Whitaker: And it's such a huge match because if Djokovic wins, Sinner doesn't hold a slam, which is extraordinary to think about when the way he's dominated the tour. And Djokovic would have two wins over Yannick Sinner in 2026 when Djokovic is pushing 40 and Sinner is right in his prime. Talk about good for his legacy and wins that are going to age well and he's going to be able to look back on when he's got his feet up eventually. It's huge. It's a huge match. He will, not that he hasn't been at every stage of his whole career,

35:16Matt Roberts: but he'll be prepared to die on the court, Djokovic, on Friday, won't he?

35:21Catherine Whitaker: oh yeah he's he is he's going to bring everything he's got including nonsense if necessary i think

35:30Matt Roberts: because he's not i don't think he's afraid to piss off crowds anymore like he's just going to do you know there's an awful lot of sarcastic jokovic tonight the hill weren't going for him matthew and i were watching watching up here and our um feed on the computer it's always about a minute behind maybe a bit less than a minute so you hear the reaction of the hill which is a giveaway about what's happening and we were trying to figure out who they were and i assumed the cheers were for jockovich and i realized they kept on anticipating the score wrong and quickly

36:03David Law: realized they're they're going for felix not scientific but i mean i don't think because there was um what was there in the was it in the first set when he did he have a medical time out I'm trying to remember exactly when what happened.

36:16Catherine Whitaker: Yes, it was in the first set, just as Orgelia was serving to stay in the set.

36:21David Law: Which wasn't ideal for Felix. And I don't think there was any intention to disrupt the opponent. I just think there's no consideration in his mind to do anything other than what he feels he needs to do at a given moment. I feel this, I'm having a medical timeout. I'm pissed off with this, I'm going to let everybody know about it. You know, and you can take your view as to whether that's okay or not. He's nearly 40. He can just do whatever he likes, really. And if he's too in the wrong, he'll get sanctioned by the authority, you know. I mean, by the end,

36:54Catherine Whitaker: I felt like people were going for Djokovic in centre court. And I think that... I think it's hard when you're watching and you're seeing this guy do that in front of you. I remember in Australia as well. I felt like the stadium there were going for Djokovic against Sinner. you know like you kind of want to be a part of history you want to see how can this guy yeah you kind of end up irresistible in the moment isn't it obviously there'll be plenty who go in not supporting Djokovic and won't change their minds but I think there's some who are probably quite neutral and and will go in and end up on Djokovic's side three days you've got to wait for that thankfully there's a lot of good tennis in between yeah

37:38Matt Roberts: absolutely just to round off the men's tennis from today obviously we had a little bonus ball in the resumption of Alexander Zverev against Yuri Lehechka they came back at 3-1 in the third set Zverev hoping to just do what was it a Ben Sholton at the US Open wasn't there a

37:57David Law: it was here it would have had to have been here it's the only place with a curfew he only played the one game and he just served four aces or something

38:05Matt Roberts: Zverev was hoping for that kind of situation today Very much not that situation. He ended up losing that third set, didn't win another game in the third set, lost it 6-3 and ended up in a tie break in the fourth. Still won through, but absolutely not what he wanted. Het up impressed, David, about the curfew.

38:26David Law: Oh, really? Well, you know, he was trying to suggest that he didn't understand why the roof wasn't closed today, given that it was closed last night. And he remembers the 2018 match between Nadal and Djokovic when they did that.

38:43Matt Roberts: That was the only one?

38:45David Law: Yeah. When they played the night and they came back the next day. And even though it was a gorgeous sunny day, they closed the roof. Well, look, Wimbledon got panned for that at the time, and they changed their approach to it after that. And, you know, their approach is to go with the conditions of the day, whatever they are. And I think that's absolutely the right thing to do. So, yeah, and look, he'd got no timing when he came out today. Lehechka clearly decided he'd worked on a strategy to shorten points, take balls early, take time away. And it was working. You know, he was right in that match.

39:21David Law: I think he will be pretty frustrated, Lechka, not to have won that tie-break in the end. But that's a bit like Djokovic. That's what Zverev's so good at. Even when he's under pressure, he was the second-best player in that fourth set, and he still won it.

39:39Matt Roberts: He's also quite good at getting an excuse for his psyche, just lined up in the back pocket if he needs one. And he knows he's playing a player tomorrow that has his number. and now he's got the you know i had to come back today and play with the roof off that isn't what

39:59David Law: he said in the press conference though he was very clear that look you know it was annoying but and i because i asked him what how different was your was your day today to what it would have been if you hadn't about to come back today and he said oh well you know i mean i got to bed at 2 30 in the morning and had to get up at nine in order to make my practice so it it is different He says, but, you know, I've been around a long time now. I'm used to it. It's OK. You know, I'm not going to complain about that. But he's won today. Yes, absolutely. But I didn't sense that he was trying to get excuses ready.

40:35David Law: I mean, he was asked about this record against Fritz. He said the one in the most recent one, he said, I did get my sugars wrong, you know, and so I wasn't feeling great. But he said the other six, he was better than me. Simple as that. So he's confident that his level is going to be better in this match and that he's confident that he will win. But at least that's what he was saying. Do you believe him? In the back of his mind, I think it must be unsettling to him that he hasn't been able to beat a guy that isn't Sinner and Alcraz in all these tries. I think that that will be a problem. The other thing that made me slightly alarmed was that he said, it won't be a very good match because there'll just be a lot of big serving.

41:20David Law: There won't be many long rallies. That's what he said to the crowd. I'm thinking, well, I've seen you play Fritz loads of times. And there's always loads of long rallies. So, I mean, I'm very interested to see whether he now steps up and employs the game that he's trained to try to play against Sinner and Alcraz, which is take first strike. I mean, he has been doing that a lot more. And Fritz hasn't faced that very much. you know yes recently he did but they haven't had many matches big matches recently so i'm fascinated to see whether he takes the ball on more and whether fritz just thinks well this guy had to come back yesterday i'm going to outlast him you know that that may well be the

42:02Matt Roberts: way he goes and he's got a lot in the tank fritz hasn't he because he's been winning pretty efficiently barring i think just one set drop to lorenzo son ago okay interesting yeah interesting We'll obviously talk about that tomorrow because that's when that match is happening.

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44:25Matt Roberts: The women's matches from today, would you like to start with Mukava Osaka or with Gough Pagula?

44:33David Law: Both belting matches, weren't they, on paper? and pretty good matches in person. I think stardom in order that they were played, if we can, because I got to do the commentary on Goff and Pagula, as I mentioned earlier, and look for two sets. It wasn't very good. I mean, you know, I'm not trying to be critical of them. I totally get it. It's really tough. Pagula had never played on centre court in her life before. I couldn't believe that. No, no. And Goff, you know, she was trying to do something she'd never done before. They're good friends, the former doubles partners. You know, there's a lot going on there, I think.

45:11David Law: And honestly, it was a really scrappy, bitty match for two sets. And they split them. In the third set, it was electric. Absolutely electric. I mean, sort of from midpoint onwards, when Goff got ahead and then Pegula just started going for broke on shots. It was really electrifying stuff. Both players playing well at the same time. Lots of really long rallies that finished with winners. I mean, the crowd absolutely lapping it up. I got to sit with Pam Shriver for it in the commentary box for the first time. That was a real thrill. And, you know, it was just great stuff. But then at the end of it, you just saw Coco Goff's champion mentality and belief, really, how deep she's prepared to dig.

46:01David Law: and how she can just problem solve. It was a masterclass of that. And she's just getting... It's like when she won the two Grandstand titles she got. She just gets better within matches and she gets better throughout the tournament.

46:15Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, that thing of getting better within matches, she's particularly done it two matches in a row now against Benchik and Pagula because in the first set, both times, I've been a bit worried about her form you know it's looked like some of the some of the old Coco Goff traits have come in the double faults and the forehand I think she was up to 17 unforced errors in that first set today alone she didn't hit 17 in the remainder of the match she cleaned up her game so well and quietly as well it sort of snuck up on me wow Coco Goff's actually playing really well now because I was still thinking about the first set and she'd lost her serve from 40 level up in the opening game with two double faults in there, kind of set the tone.

47:01Catherine Whitaker: And as David said, I didn't really think Pagula was playing all that well either, but she was doing enough to be in control. And I do think a very pivotal game was with Coco Goff serving at 3-all in the second set and Pagula got to love 30. And fair play Goff, she stepped up and hit some nice serves in that game. but there was also a missed second serve return from Pagula and there was a proak shot that she really should have just put away but she had it straight back to Goff on the final point and you can look at that and think, it's not a disaster Pagula hasn't played a terrible game there by any means but she just didn't grab it when she had the chance she was just a little bit sloppy and I think to really get this match she needed to win it there and then because Goff's level was increasing and it had even increased by that point and it just got better and better and by the closing stages Goff was serving really well and she'd cleaned up her ground strokes and I think had actually got a lot of trust in them I remember at the French Open when she lost to Potipova she lamented the fact that she got really passive down the stretch and let Potipova dictate Kate, I didn't see any of that today.

48:19Catherine Whitaker: I felt like she was trusting her shots. Yes, prepared to rally, but going for it when she could, coming forward when she could, that was a nice element of her game at times today. She's so dynamic up at the net and I just think she ended up working out the pattern here and Pagulo ended up a little bit stuck. You know, she didn't move on to short balls very well and she didn't really play a sort of clean, her grass court tennis. I just think she got caught out by the way that Goff raised her game and Pagoula just couldn't quite go with her. And I was so impressed with Goff's turnaround. It was such a great mental performance as well to not let the first set just be how the match looked.

49:05Catherine Whitaker: You know, she said, I'm a competitor. I've lost a lot of sets and I know that you can turn it around in matches. And she does that. She does that so well. And it's getting her through this tournament. tournament what is it she's won four four matches in deciding sets it's it's brilliant

49:21Matt Roberts: yeah i mean it's even this match even at the end of this match i agree with you like her level increased all the way through it's still not the best tennis i've i've seen this tournament we'll talk about mukhaven in a moment and players on the other side of the drawer as well and yet this is what it looks like when goff wins grand slams like for me she's the favorite because I've seen this film before and I've loved the ending both times. Like, this is what Gough and Charlie Grand Slam titles look like. Yes, and the mysterious powers of Charlie Eccleshire. And, yeah, I was very taken with how she was in press as well.

50:05Matt Roberts: She admitted that, well, not admitted, but sort of revealed that she put a lot of pressure on herself to reach the quarterfinals, to win her last match, to beat Belinda Bencic and reach the quarterfinals because that was something she'd never done before. She wanted to break new ground here. She didn't want this little run she was having to end before she did something new and made progress here. Now, if she's done that, I really think she feels like she's playing with house money and it's just like everything, everything sort of water off a duck's back for her I think she took a lot we've talked about this before she was asked about it again today I think she took so much from Shiontek winning here last year the player that yeah she's good but not at Wimbledon and not with that forehand grip she was like oh okay like maybe this stuff isn't as big of a deal as it's made out to be and that I've made it out to be in my head and I think also as much as her Wimbledon record hasn't been great in these intervening years since that breakthrough as a 15 year old in 2019 she's she's a great clay court player clay is probably her best surface she's been targeting peaking at the French Open and that has prevented her from having a good crack at the grass I asked her about that and she said basically this is the first time that I've properly given myself a chance here she said okay I lost early in Berlin or early-ish in Berlin but I still came here and had a longer training block here and on grass than I've ever had before like this is this isn't it's not a coincidence there is something different about Coco Golf at Wimbledon this year and And I don't know.

51:57Yeah, I just come back to like, this is how Coco Gauff wins her Grand Slams.

52:02David Law: Yeah, she certainly has with those two that she's won. I think it's very different to a year ago, isn't it? Because she basically exhausted herself in the interim between the French Open and Wimbledon with all the activities that she had to do, which I totally understand, you know, capitalising on that success and the publicity that came with it. and she admitted that and that it burnt her out a little bit um i loved the fact that she was on the same court that she arrived on all those years ago i mean it's it's amazing to think of coca goffers all those years ago but it is seven years ago and she was 15 and here she is 22 um and and to see her lapping it up as somebody who has just taken it to another level I always assumed that grass would be a great service for her when she had that run as a 15 year old and it's taken to now to prove that she can play on it to herself as much as anything else and yeah it's really cool I'm really glad she's still in the tournament I feel for Pegula because it's another one that's got away and she's 32 and you know how long can she sustain the level I suspect still for a while and she's so measured that she accepts that she might not win a Grand Slam and she needs to be okay with that if that ends up being the case.

53:26David Law: But I also back her to turn over every single rock to see what can be achieved. But it is another one that's got a way.

53:33Matt Roberts: This US Open is big for Pegula, isn't it? To capitalise on this 2026 form. There, where she's had her biggest success. Huge tournament for her. she mentioned Coco Goff in her speech or her post-match interview which was lovely of course she shouted out people that are queued which is so great she said I know that some of you have spent like three days sleeping in a park in a tent to be here today to watch me like I am aware of that and it means a lot to me like that's really cool isn't it she's so human straightforward

54:15David Law: forward and like she just sort of she doesn't have loads of filters when you ask her questions she'll just tell you things she's thought about last night you know or vulnerabilities or things she's been a bit worried about you know um well how can you not like her matt you were on court

54:34Matt Roberts: for the karolina mukova nemi osaka match which was over on court number one and koko goff's coach was there, J.C. Farrell, and he was taking notes, I believe, on Karolina Mukova. I don't know if he's an Eccleshare type character, but he hedged his bets well there.

54:55Catherine Whitaker: Well, he started taking notes on Mukova and he made a lot of notes on Mukova. He did write Osaka's name down and write a few notes, but he was definitely, I think, feeling the Mukova win more as he was as he was watching this and he was right he he he knows stuff that's why he's a that's why he's a top level coach I think were you feeling the Mukova

55:18Matt Roberts: win throughout as well so very easy to say in hindsight 7664 this for Karolina Mukova just an absolutely sublime performance from her did it always feel like Mukova I think I said

55:33Catherine Whitaker: yesterday that I was kind of leaning Osaka because of the level she'd had against Sabalenka and the the clarity she was playing with and the and the weapon that she had which was the first serve and how how destructive that was and just thought if she can serve like that and play like that she's going to be really hard to stop here and then these two traded breaks and traded breaks again and there were four breaks of serve in the first four games of the match and immediately it was like oh well this is different to to the Sabalenka match and Mukova can can do stuff that as great as Sabalenka is she doesn't have the same hand skills as Mukova I mean very few people do and she was able to I think read the Osaka serve pretty well latch onto it hit it deep on return and then get her hands into play and keep the ball low and come forward and the thing I worried about was whether Mukava had enough of a weapon within all of that.

56:37Catherine Whitaker: It's all very well constructing these points, but I think when push comes to shove, you've got to know how to finish points. And David said, I think she's hitting her forehand really well. And my God, she's hitting her forehand really well. That shot today was so destructive, and it caused more problems than I maybe thought it would. and piecing it together. She was coming forward and she just looked calm and in control. She looked today like Osaka looked the other day, totally at ease and poised and comfortable with her game. Whereas Osaka today was getting more down on herself and was clearly not as happy with the way she was playing quite early in this match.

57:22Catherine Whitaker: She wasn't feeling the ball like she was the other day and she was being caused more problems and made to hit extra shots by Mukova's defence. And yeah, honestly, as the match went on, I shifted. And I thought, I do think Mukova's going to win this because she seems more in control and causing more problems. And I thought she was outstanding. She served incredibly well herself, Mukova, as well. Okay, maybe the percentage wasn't always that high, but it was a weapon. Ace on match point. And the whole game, to close it out, Osaka barely got a racket on the ball. And that's been a doubt in my mind as well.

57:58Catherine Whitaker: Does Mukava, is she a closer? Does she have those fangs? We know she's good, but she's not won loads of titles or loads of big titles. And, well, she closed this one out emphatically. And, yeah, I thought she was fantastic today, Mukava.

58:13Matt Roberts: Yeah, Pam Shriver said she was playing like a right-handed Martina Navratilova.

58:17Catherine Whitaker: Well, there you go.

58:19Matt Roberts: Yeah, tells you everything. Just on Osaka, she had her ankle strapped a bit in the first set. And she actually looked okay sort of after that for quite a while. Did look like it was something was bothering her physically or impeding her a little bit towards the end of the match. She was asked about it obviously in press and she actually said it was plantar fasciitis that she's been carrying for a while, certainly since Berlin. She said she doesn't think it will bother her on a hard court. She said she thought it was the change of surface that was the issue there. but actually she didn't say that that was the main physical problem today she said i just didn't have any energy and she blamed how many matches she had in her legs she said i i played way more matches than i usually do before a slam she said it felt like the accumulation of playing for two weeks straight without a day off she said i need to map out my schedule better but i've lived and learned and this is the deepest run she's had at a slam but apart from the US Open last year when she reached that semi-final loss to Anisimova and she actually said this loss is more upsetting for her than the US Open last year because and there were great compliments for Anisimova in this answer but basically the crux was she feels like she left something on the table here that she doesn't feel like she did in new york those responses were to my questions in the

59:50David Law: press conference um i was taken aback by the energy one you know that that she hadn't got energy and the first thing she said was she wasn't very happy with her performance she wasn't trying to take anything away from mukova but she wasn't happy with how she played i was astonished by that because the first set i thought was an incredibly high quality from both players and i really felt it was in the balance now i do say that from somebody judging it from the baseline because you're quite right the serve wasn't having the impact that it had against sabalanka but from the baseline she was hitting the corner she was absolutely spearing these balls left and right um and on the point of the the mukova forehand there was one incredible backhand down the line that that osaka crashed down the other end and you're expecting it to just crumple the racket at Mukovo.

1:00:39David Law: Mukovo just sort of saw it coming, took one step to her left and smashed her forehand back at her even faster. And I thought, you know, these are two players who are just seeing the ball so cleanly and big right now. But then once she'd got the set, Mukovo, she relaxed into it. Osaka was struggling with this. She kept touching this strapping around her and the foot area. And when she explained what it was, that plantar fasciitis, I thought, oh, you know, that's, she says that's something she's had most of this year um and she's just trying to sort of learn how

1:01:12Matt Roberts: to cope with it really she was asked whether she felt closer to winning a slam again after this run and she said she absolutely still believes that she can win a slam do you do you still believe i certainly think she's capable um because i think her top level is still incredibly high

1:01:36David Law: and she's now beaten Sabalenka. If she goes into the US Open, I think she's a contender.

1:01:44Matt Roberts: Is she a new US Open mix right now? Yeah.

1:01:47David Law: It's not like it used to be. It's not like when she used to, seven years ago, when she would go to the Australian Open and the US Open and just be a standout favourite. Things have moved on. Other players have got to that level and probably beyond, really, because usually she loses to the very top ones. But if she plays like this and she moves like this, isn't it interesting to think of somebody who's kind of veteran age almost now sounding a bit like a newcomer in terms of whether to play the week or two before? These are not things you expect to hear from somebody with her experience, but she's never done it on clay.

1:02:27David Law: She's never done it on grass.

1:02:28Matt Roberts: I don't think she was expecting to go as deep in Bad Homburg as she, it was bad Homburg wasn't it? I don't think she was expecting to win as many matches there as she did.

1:02:37David Law: It should be easier for her in the summer. This is a swing she knows very well to plan that out. If she can go in with this kind of attitude, she was determined she said to be positive today. You know, as hard as it is.

1:02:52Catherine Whitaker: I 100 % feel better about Osaka's Grand Slam chances than I did certainly this time last year and I think probably even coming out of the U.S. Open last year. I didn't know how sustainable that was. And I think we then saw that she did have a dip at the start of this season. She wasn't feeling anywhere close to as she was at that U.S. Open. But the improvements in the movement that she's made, I think, are really notable. Even today, there was a few moments where she was getting behind balls and hitting great passing shots on the run that I just didn't see Osaka doing much in the past. And she's got the win over Sabalenka.

1:03:40Catherine Whitaker: And the other thing is, I look at the field and there's still so many players that can win a Grand Slam title. But that core group that we've been talking about for years, particularly Sabalenka and Shiontek.

1:03:53Matt Roberts: Sabalenka, Shiontek, Rabakino, Trifecta.

1:03:56Catherine Whitaker: none of them are as convincing at the moment and i do think that opens up for everyone else now obviously i think goff is maybe becoming more convincing but goff is also someone whose form can can go you know um so i i think asaka on a hard court given what she displayed last year and i think actually some of her tennis this tournament has maybe been better than what she had at the US Open last year. I think she hopefully and should be feeling good about her chances this summer.

1:04:28Matt Roberts: And the vibes are good with Wichorowski, aren't they? So good. Yeah, I do think that's a good situation. And we shouldn't take for granted her... And being that relatively positive, positive but still hungry in a post-match press conference, because it was 13 months ago that she lost in Paris and came in and she felt like she'd let Patrick Morotoglu down.

1:04:53David Law: Yeah, she's definitely...

1:04:54Matt Roberts: 13 months ago, that was a far better place than that. Dark scene. Yeah. And we are so far from that. Yeah. And that is brilliant. So, Mukovo against Goff. Oh. Semi-final. Goff's got the whole this is what Grand Slam winning looks like for Coco Goff but Karolina Mukhova's got Priscilla Hon

1:05:21Matt Roberts: that's the secret sauce if you want to reach a Grand Slam final and lose love and love once you get there

1:05:30Catherine Whitaker: can you explain that? Priscilla Hon to my knowledge is just lovely and friends with everyone. Everyone. And in particular, Anisimova and Mukaba. It always feels like on Instagram, they're, you know, fighting over Priscilla Hon's attention. Not that there's any tension there, I think. It's just that they're both best friends with her.

1:05:53Matt Roberts: I remember when Raducanu was due to play Anisimova in Australia two years, was it last year? A year and a half ago. And she was asked about Anisimova in the press conference before that match. and she said, well, we've got Priscilla Hon in common. Right. Like, well, yeah, you and everyone else in the WCA. She's a friend to everyone. Yeah, yeah.

1:06:16Catherine Whitaker: And she was in, and I think she was just, I don't know whether she was actually in the box last year for Nysimovil, just behind it. Definitely present. She was absolutely there. She knows how to pick a winner. She's there with Mukhova as well.

1:06:30Matt Roberts: This was a very one-sided rivalry, Mukhova and Goff.

1:06:34David Law: And it still is, but it's just that Mukhova's finally won one. She was 6-0. The most recent one. And then she won a really long three-setter in Stuttgart. I asked her about that in the press conference, about what's difficult with Goff. I mean, I think it pretty much stands to reason. You know, incredible athlete, great competitor, all the things that we know Goff is so good at. And when we watch it, we often just feel like she just gets blunted by what Goff is able to do. But I also think that Mukherjee is better. I was going to say she's a lot better than she ever was in any of those matches

1:07:11Catherine Whitaker: do you think the forehand you've seen helps her break some of those defences the surface as well they've not met on grass Mukava said well we're we're 0-0 on grass I like that head to head better you know I do think there's something in that she's got a really

1:07:28David Law: good vibe going with Sven Grotewald who we met on the eve of the tournament just passing by and he was pretty convincing I thought about her chances and here she is in the semi-finals i definitely think she is capable of winning this match i think her forehand for sure is looks of the two players i know which one's forehand i'd like um now there are other things that coco goff does way better than mukova you know and they're very differently stylistically i think it's a wonderful clash of styles one who's going to be trying to really maneuver an opponent and get into the net. Although Goff's been trying to get into the net a lot as well.

1:08:10David Law: I love all of it. I think it has the portents for just a fabulous match.

1:08:16Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, me too. I can't wait for it. I think in the past, Goff has protected her forehand quite well against Mukova by knowing that she can loop it up quite high to the Mukova backhand. And Mukova then, you know, because she kind of wants to be taking that ball early, Mukovo, or slicing it. She doesn't want to be backpedaling, playing a backhand up high, but Goff does that quite well. I do think the surface maybe neutralizes that a little bit. I'm not sure that's going to be quite so easy for Goff to do, but having said that, when it's hot, and the state that the grass is in now on centre court, it can still bounce up, and I think Goff was doing quite a good job of that to Pagula today as well, who also wants to be taking it early.

1:08:59Catherine Whitaker: So there's so many fascinating things. I think what you cannot do is you cannot give Mukhova angles to play with. I think Goff will hit quite a lot up the middle. Because if you give Mukhova the angles, she can find them and then she can work her way to the net and all that kind of stuff with her hands. And it's going to be so fascinating to watch Goff try and figure that out. And Mukhova try and figure Goff out. Like, oh, I can't wait for it. It's a dream, isn't it?

1:09:27Matt Roberts: I'm reliably informed by the chat by the way that Priscilla Hon and Karolina Mukova are launching a joint sunscreen venture is that right? yeah

1:09:36Catherine Whitaker: so besties and business partners Anissa Mova needs to step up

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1:11:10Matt Roberts: Shall we have a look ahead to tomorrow's order of play? In fact, just before we do that, I would like to give a nod to the wheelchair competition that got underway today. And the fact that Wimbledon do a cool thing where court three is kind of a sign to the wheelchair competition. You know, if you camp out on court three for the day and you can get there with the grounds pass, you're going to see the best wheelchair players in the world. And it was very well attended today. And the first match of the day on there was Tiquito Oda against Gordon Reid. I mean, Oda carved Gordon Reid up, quite frankly, which there's no shame in.

1:11:46Matt Roberts: Oda can do that to absolutely anybody. Nightmare first round draw for Gordon Reid. Takeda Oda has an all-white chair, which is incredible. He said he's been wanting to make this happen for a while, sort of in honour of Wimbledon. And he spoke to his chair manufacturer and they were able to make that happen for him. And it just, it looks amazing. That's so cool.

1:12:14Catherine Whitaker: It's so slick.

1:12:15Matt Roberts: Yeah, it looks really sharp. um and yeah you won i think in an hour and 17 today and alphie hewitt won in an hour and 19 does feel i mean it always feels doesn't it like they're on a collision course with the final but

1:12:30David Law: we'll keep you posted on uh on how that goes by the way um on the bbc today i heard the voice of brad parks who was being interviewed the the first wheelchair player ever um on the anniversary of 50 years of wheelchair tennis and we got to do a tennis relived about that subject and and i got to interview brad for for a good half an hour just it's just one of the great experiences of my career to be able to talk to him about his history as a wheelchair player um so if you if you ever want to check out the archives that show is in there but uh i'm just really pleased to see wimbledon marking this he was in the royal box wasn't he absolutely yeah it was great

1:13:15Matt Roberts: i should say by the way again being reminded of this in the chat there was a mechanical failure of taquito odors shiny white chair um i mean i didn't care like give me a give me a chair that looks that cool with a mechanical failure over over anything else but yeah there was a slightly sort of demoralizing taquito odour there in his because he hadn't practiced in the white chair he wanted to unveil it on the match court and he won the first set and then he had to sort of have a well like a medical timeout but for his chair and the umpire announced it like a medical timeout

1:13:51David Law: yeah when agassi unveiled his white outfit in 1991 for the first time yes yeah it really was

1:13:58Matt Roberts: a cool moment it was excellent uh okay tomorrow day 10 of the championships the second day of quarterfinal action center court starts with marta kostjuk against jasmine paulini and second on is flavio caballi against arthur ferry a brit in the quarterfinals uh what chance do we give arthur David

1:14:26David Law: I kind of think it depends which version of them both turns up

1:14:30Matt Roberts: well which version do you think of each of them will turn up? Do you think Sirius Flavio will be back in the house?

1:14:36David Law: I think Sirius Flavio will turn up and I think a decent Arthur Ferry will turn up and I just hope he doesn't get shaken nerves wise I would have thought given that he went through all this a couple of days ago and he got through the whole Federer a rival I mean Federer being his hero he came to watch apparently 14 years ago and and he was told that Federer would be in the raw box just before they went on and he he said I had to text all my team and just say listen I've just heard he's there I'm feeling a bit tight and you know and I kind of think well you didn't look tight you played incredibly well so if you can handle that I reckon maybe you can handle this next one so hopefully he'll play well but look Flavio has been there and done it now he's got to remember that and not faff about on the floor um and and be serious and i think if he if he has his game head on he will win how do you think he will

1:15:32Catherine Whitaker: handle caballi not being the crowd favorite he normally is a good question right like he's he's normally people are drawn to him and they and sent to court i mean it's a test for serious

1:15:43Matt Roberts: Flavio isn't it like keeping your head in that situation I think I think he could do with quietening them you know pissing on the party quite early yeah I mean I think he'll have too

1:15:56Catherine Whitaker: much game ultimately yeah I think he's a better player and I think he's got enough experience now to be able to handle those sorts of moments but that is something I'm thinking about going into this because i think he gets you know he he feeds off the crowd a lot and he gets sparks in matches

1:16:15Matt Roberts: and and judging by how it was with dimitrov yesterday the you know like tumbleweed when he was hitting winners yeah and that was great i hope somebody said to him look don't get pissed

1:16:26David Law: off all right because if you hit a winner and people don't get excited don't start doing this stuff because that's not going to go down well i'm trying to think of times when he's played

1:16:35Matt Roberts: home players at slams and none are springing to mind

1:16:41David Law: I can't remember many to be honest

1:16:42Matt Roberts: springing to mind and he's been so popular this fortnight

1:16:46Catherine Whitaker: it could be quite jarring for him I watched him play Brooksby at the US

1:16:53David Law: oh yes which was a great match but

1:16:57Catherine Whitaker: it's different you know quarterfinal on centre core it's different

1:17:01David Law: so loud isn't it yeah I mean it was it was a nice reminder of how loud centre court gets for a home player when they're really doing

1:17:11Catherine Whitaker: something but that's it like ferry is gonna have to do something yeah you know like give them something you know it's possible he's nervous it's possible he's really feeling it physically he's played what back to back fifth set tie breaks you know like he must be feeling it He's not used to playing this much tennis. So, yeah, I have to think Kabbali comes through.

1:17:37Matt Roberts: Kostje, Paolini, who's the favourite? That's a good question.

1:17:42David Law: I'd have thought it's 50-50 as a sort of match-up. I've called it for Paolini based on having been there and done it here.

1:17:53Catherine Whitaker: Yeah. Who does Charlie think is going to win? I really don't know. It's two players who's like, you know, they play with so much heart. Their heart holds their fate. I love watching them both. I think I might go Kostiuk. Who are you going, Catherine?

1:18:19Matt Roberts: 2026 Kostiuk. I think I'm going Kostiuk. She's pretty good, isn't she? But I mean, that's 51-49.

1:18:27Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I don't have a strong feeling.

1:18:29Matt Roberts: I'm commentating that one. Oh, fun.

1:18:31David Law: BBC Radio, yeah.

1:18:32Matt Roberts: I loved you and Pam on the goth-pagula match earlier. Absolutely loved it. Number one court tomorrow, Linda Noshkova against Elisa Mertens. Are you going to pick Mertens for that, Matt?

1:18:45Catherine Whitaker: I'm going to pick Noshkova, who's in my fantasy team. I've been a Noshkova person for a long time. I think Noshkova will win as well.

1:18:57Matt Roberts: Yeah, so do I, obviously. Things like that.

1:19:07Matt Roberts: Taylor Fritz against Alexander Zverev. If Zverev wins this, are we calling that an upset?

1:19:15David Law: It's a great question. You know, I tried to look up today. I mean, we don't bet. I tried to look up who the bookies had as a favourite for that match and I mean I couldn't get through it I think because they put a bar on that here but also it's one of those that Zverev should be the favourite on paper with the seedings and all he's done but seven wins in a row that's a lot of wins I mean I think Fritz is the favourite but I am interested to see if a different Zverev turns up who has worked on his game in order to play these kind of matches and not just rally from the back and who has now won a grand slam title i mean these are different elements to any of those other previous matches yeah is there is there a danger that it's it's kind of like

1:20:10Catherine Whitaker: we end up coming out of it and thinking well

1:20:15Catherine Whitaker: it was times where i've won one yeah what i mean like it doesn't it doesn't feel to me like Cine de Menor do you know what I mean?

1:20:24David Law: no no no

1:20:25Catherine Whitaker: where there's a huge streak of matches in someone's favour like I think a lot of these matches are close and Fritz has been on the right side of it like I don't think it takes they've all felt like upsets

1:20:36David Law: yes Fritz wins over Zverev and Zverev used to win their matches it was only here a couple of years ago when it changed and Zverev was a set up and then he says he got injured and then he got overhauled and then things started to change. I think there's, I mean, the interesting thing to me will be if Fritz understands that Zverev might not be quite the same as he's been in the past. You know, because I remember when he was going to play the US Open final against Sinner, and he was like, oh, I like Sinner's ball. No, I think I don't mind Sinner's ball. And he'd beaten him before, and then he got beaten in three sets.

1:21:14David Law: And I think there's a chance that he might do what he's done in the past against Zverev and find that the ball is different to what he's used to. I do think Fritz is playing really well.

1:21:26Matt Roberts: Me too. And better than he's been playing at other times when he's beaten Zverev. Now, Zverev might be playing better too. He's certainly serving very well. I think today could be a factor too. Fritz reads his serve well. I don't expect him to have quite the numbers on serve that he has had up until this point and yeah i i do think the coming back today it certainly doesn't help it's the last chance with felix out it's the last chance for the bath mat shirt

1:21:58Catherine Whitaker: in this tournament i'm an absolute adidas misfire that's very they have also got the

1:22:05Matt Roberts: shirt which is beautiful i think she looks fantastic how how have the same designers has come up with the Mook of a look and the bathmat men's look.

1:22:16Catherine Whitaker: I will pick Fritz, though. Yes, I would as well.

1:22:19Matt Roberts: Matthew? The man that picked Sitsapass against Djokovic, what sayeth he?

1:22:26Catherine Whitaker: I'm Fisk of a Vizhvionte. Yeah. Somebody text Charlie.

1:22:30Matt Roberts: The anti-Charlie Eccleshire. Who are you going for, Matthew? Um, Fritz.

1:22:35Catherine Whitaker: Fritz, he says. Okay, well, that's... Fritz and Ferry.

1:22:39Matt Roberts: Fritz and Ferry?

1:22:40Catherine Whitaker: and then we'll be one step closer to blonde matthew

1:22:45Matt Roberts: make of that what you will folks uh we will be back at the end of it all we're gonna move on not before time to 8 p.m remember we did that today technically uh and then we only just 11 we only just finished in time for curfew what ignorant boobs we were this morning thinking that tennis would finish early. But yeah, technically we'll be not before 8pm from now on so that if the tennis does miraculously finish early, you won't be waiting for us to go live. But as ever, do keep across our socials, hit that like and subscribe button and get an alert when we're going live and also subscribe to the newsletter and you will always know when we are going live.

1:23:27Matt Roberts: But basically, at the end of play, not before 8pm. unless Mantle Barami is faffing around on court 18. I'm making a lot of noise. That is the one spanner in our plan. Hello, Phoebe. Happy Phoebe face is exactly what I needed today. And again, she's doing a very Billie Jean-esque pose where she's lying on her front with her legs splayed out with hip flexor action that I could only dream of. and Vicky says life advice from Phoebe always important to pace yourself and have plenty of rest yes, preach amen to that hello to Bodie, Maisie and Roger our mascots, hello to our top folks and executive producers Greg, Chris and Jeff and it's over to Matt for shout outs shout out Fulham

1:24:21Catherine Whitaker: for finally confirming a new manager at 11.45pm on a Tuesday night who have you got? Abeloa

1:24:28Matt Roberts: we knew that could they not have done that weeks ago?

1:24:33Catherine Whitaker: I'd have thought so they're trying to bury the bad news what are we doing?

1:24:37Matt Roberts: did they announce that during the Switzerland-Columbia penalty?

1:24:40Catherine Whitaker: yep during the tennis podcast live show all the big hits they're burying the news

1:24:45Matt Roberts: good to know that you weren't at all distracted during the course of this broadcast Matt

1:24:51Catherine Whitaker: we have Sam Woodside from Christchurch, New Zealand

1:24:56Matt Roberts: we know Sam We have met Sam. Did Sam buy us drinks at the Australian Open?

1:25:02Catherine Whitaker: I think he might have done that. I think he was wearing Tennis Podcast merch.

1:25:06Matt Roberts: Yeah, big shout out to Sam for that. I think he presented us with a tray of gin and tonics.

1:25:10David Law: He sounds like an absolute legend.

1:25:12Matt Roberts: Yeah, we like Sam. In fact, was that the night when you said, I'm glad I know you now? Not about Sam. About me?

1:25:23Catherine Whitaker: Don't know. Possibly.

1:25:24Matt Roberts: I've got those two memories linked in my mind. But anyway, it was absolutely not Sam's fault if that was the case.

1:25:32Catherine Whitaker: Sam says, when I was a kid, I chose Roger Federer as my favourite player because we share the same birthday.

1:25:38Matt Roberts: Oh, August sometime? A US Open birthday or a pre-US Open birthday.

1:25:44Catherine Whitaker: August 8th.

1:25:45Matt Roberts: Isn't it the same day as Andy Roddick?

1:25:48Catherine Whitaker: It's the same as Felix, I believe.

1:25:50Matt Roberts: Ah.

1:25:52David Law: Andy Roddick says always during the US Open. Yeah. I think. So similar time.

1:25:57Matt Roberts: A few weeks later. Similar time. OK. Sam, we love you. Thank you.

1:26:02Catherine Whitaker: And finally, we have Fleur Thomas from Melbourne.

1:26:07Matt Roberts: Oh, Fleur. We love Fleur too. Who we know very well.

1:26:10Catherine Whitaker: Hi, Fleur. Fleur says, the why do you love tennis so much question from your recent Q &A show a few weeks ago has inspired me to write my own answer. It may take a while. It will serve as a kind of memoir as tennis has been a constant throughout a nomadic life. From New Zealand to England to Singapore to New York and now to Melbourne. It has been everywhere with me. How could I not love it? Thanks for all you do. Your pod makes me love it even more. If that's possible, see you in Melbourne.

1:26:41David Law: Oh, Fleur. Fleur. That's lovely. Thank you.

1:26:45Matt Roberts: that is that's really perfect actually because well certainly perfect for me like that that chimes with something that i very much feel about tennis as well as much as i slag it off for always being on and like the length of the season it's also what i love like it is always there for you isn't it the moment the off season yeah like for goodness sake i've been abandoned by tennis tennis gone yeah yeah you can no matter what the time of day or night you can put on your tv and you know something will be happening in Acapulco

1:27:18Catherine Whitaker: and we are grateful

1:27:20Matt Roberts: Fleur is Fleur is an absolute gem I used my little spoon that Fleur made for us well she made us one each didn't she but I used that the other day and I thought very fondly of our lunches at Fleur's so thank you ever so much for being a friend of the pod and for well for everything quite frankly so thank you Fleur thank you Sam thank you Fulham is that what we're doing?

1:27:44Catherine Whitaker: why not we thanked Greg Allen's worth the other day please Fulham give him something to smile about this year his mood depends on you look how look how happy I am that Fulham aren't playing at

1:27:57Matt Roberts: the moment in the words of Hannah it is so late for unnecessary football chat we will wrap it up there we will be back tomorrow of course not before 8pm at the end of play on the show courts Thank you all for listening, for watching, for being here live, for joining in the chat, if that is what you did. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network, and we will speak to you tomorrow.

1:28:26David Law: This episode is sponsored by Michael's, your destination for all things birthday parties. We just had Lucky's first birthday, and it was so great to be able to go into Michael's and get everything.

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