Madrid - Can Rafael Jodar fill the Alcaraz void?

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1:17Matt Roberts: Well, hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast. It is Monday morning, the sun is shining, No one has eaten any dodgy shrimp tacos, so we are a full house and good to go. David, how has your weekend been?

1:34David Law: It's been really good. It's been really good. The sun's been shining here. I don't actually know how to make shrimp tacos, but I'm now going to not do it, even if I can, because it sounds like they might be dodgy. but no it's been very nice and I've watched loads of tennis and I'm delighted to be here to talk about it

1:54Matt Roberts: I think the key David might be very very fresh shrimp OK I'll bear that in mind Matt he's out of his funereal garb Fulham have got a win on the board how are we doing there's talk of Europe again Matt

2:10Catherine Whitaker: just when I'm out they pull me back in that is very much the Fulham vibe They've got no chance, don't worry about it.

2:19Matt Roberts: Philip and Thomas Mahatch, what do they have in common?

2:27Matt Roberts: Didn't it?

2:32Matt Roberts: David, you've been shopping?

2:35David Law: Yeah, I've been to my favourite shop. This is not a paid advertisement.

2:40Matt Roberts: Tell everyone where you do your shopping, David.

2:43David Law: TooTall.com and last night i did a supermarket sweep of everything they've got i've bought everything in all the sizes and i'm going to try them all on and i'm going to send 90 of it back and i'm very excited presumably all the sizes are big yeah yeah yeah but i mean there's like there's people like me and then there's people that are proper tall like riley opelka tall okay and too tall.com caters to all of them I'll hook you up Riley and John Isner and all the rest of you

3:17Matt Roberts: I would suggest that too tall dot com there's a bit of a branding issue there they're sort of making you feel there's no such thing as too tall it should be just tall enough dot com taller than everyone else dot com aren't we cool

3:33David Law: we can't get into train carriages without bending down and we can't sit properly behind aeroplane seats, we are too tall. So we're okay with it.

3:47Matt Roberts: That's definitely what the people sat behind us at Hamilton thought about the situation, isn't it?

3:53Catherine Whitaker: They rearranged the entire family when they were sitting down.

3:56Matt Roberts: The audible exhale that they let out when they realised who they were sitting behind.

4:02David Law: I've spent a lot of time in theatres and cinemas sort of hunched over because I'm so self-conscious about what I might be doing to somebody behind me.

4:11Matt Roberts: Bless you. Bless you, David.

4:14Catherine Whitaker: That is the difference between you and Riley Apelka.

4:21David Law: I also don't recline my seat because I know what it feels like. But we won't get into that again.

4:28Catherine Whitaker: Oh, no, don't. Let's definitely not get into that, especially only three minutes in. The whole energy just changed.

4:37Matt Roberts: That's really annoying.

4:44Matt Roberts: Too tall to allow other unsuspecting airline passages that have paid for a reclining seat to enjoy what they've paid for.com. Correct. We're going to head to Madrid and talk about...

5:07Matt Roberts: we're actually not going to head to Madrid quite yet but we are going to head somewhere other than our ongoing 15 year long debate about reclining reclining airline seats we're going to update you on the Carlos Alcaraz situation because obviously our last podcast was an emergency pod on Friday about the fact that Carlos Alcaraz with His wrist injury has withdrawn from the remainder of the clay court season, obviously most notably Roland Garros, where he would have been defending the title. And a lot of what we talked about on Friday was the wording of the statement and the fact that there was a no definitive detail about what the injury is.

5:51is, and also the fact that there was no definitive pledge to return on grass, the open endedness of

5:59Matt Roberts: it felt a little bit disconcerting. We have a bit of an update from the Spanish journalist Angel García Múniz. He gave a reasonably positive update, cautious optimism, I think. He says that there is no tear, that it is just inflammation in the risk. And the target at the moment is to return for Queen's to prepare for Wimbledon. I've also heard a lot of other noises about the fact that, you know, they're very aware, the Alcaraz team, of the cautionary tales out there about wrists. And you don't mess around with wrists. We all know about Juan Martín del Potro and Dominic Thiem and countless other examples out there.

6:47Matt Roberts: So the noises I'm hearing are that, you know, if he needs to miss the rest of the season in order to protect the rest of his career, he will. But there is reason to believe that that won't be necessary. And there is hope for a return on the grass. So obviously, obviously, we hope that that is the case. I mean, even if he had played Madrid, you just know he'd have been first in line for the shrimp tacos, don't you? So maybe we wouldn't, wrist injury or not, we wouldn't have got that much Carlos Alcaraz in Madrid because the tournament has been absolutely blighted by an apparent outbreak of food poisoning.

7:32Matt Roberts: It was Jim Currier that reported on the Tennis Channel that the shrimp tacos had been responsible, But the plot thickens because Coco Gough, one of the most notable victims of this outbreak, she denies eating the shrimp tacos. So the investigative work continues. Jonathan Overend on Sky said that the Madrid tournament have established that it did not come from official catering. But, quote, they would say that, wouldn't they? they're apparently claiming it's a wider viral spread across madrid people of madrid let us know uh are you also experiencing puking into a bin on a tennis court-esque symptoms uh we've uh we've had uh withdrawals from madison keys maryn chilich ludmila samsonova we've had a retirement from Iga Svjontek and we have met for the first time I think post puke Goff.

8:36Matt Roberts: She came back to beat Sarana Castella yesterday in three pretty captivating sets. I don't know whether it's okay to say that about a match that featured Coco Goff puking into a bin but I couldn't take my eyes off this and as soon as she she did that Matt I just thought there is nobody there is nobody I back more to cope with this situation than Coco Gough I was like she she's gonna be okay here and true enough she she was okay here not in the sort of in the wider sense she looked very much not okay but she toughed it out and she came through that match yeah you see in the moment

9:18Catherine Whitaker: I thought not even Goff can get through this when she sat down and she just looked so sad and unwell and miserable, really, because she was puking in a bin in the middle of a tennis match. Like, you're going to be miserable. I thought I thought we might see an Igor Shvantec from her and she might just retire. but actually just as she was puking that was actually kind of the catalyst for turning the match around I think you know there is there's something and you often feel a bit better when you've when you've let it out and also I think Castella just suddenly suddenly lost her way and lost her game and lost her poise in this one and I don't know there was something about Goff who obviously we know she's so resilient anyway but almost it was almost like all she could do was focus on trying to get through points and feel well enough to play that almost all of the other potential worries about her game just sort of ebbed away a little bit and she entered a sort of equilibrium state and that was good enough to end up winning the third set pretty comfortably against Castella.

10:33Catherine Whitaker: And yeah, so I don't really know what to make of this one because she was kind of getting outplayed for a set and a half. She did an incredible job to turn it around despite feeling so unwell. And I, okay, this is going to be soon to be out of date tennis news. I have no idea whether she's going to take it to the court today for her next match. You know, it's very unlucky for her that she started feeling unwell right at the part of the tournament where she has to play back-to-back days. And she already pulled out the doubles, very understandably. So I just don't know whether her tournament continues after this or not.

11:09Catherine Whitaker: So it's kind of, it's tough to sort of do a big Coco Gauff analysis on it, but very impressive in the moment to come through a match like that. And we did see a continuation of this trend now where her double fault percentage has gone way down. You know, it's the ninth match in a row, this one, where her double fault percentage had been less than 10%, which is a significant mark for Coco Gauff. All of her five or six matches before that had been well over the 10 % mark. So she's got a real run of consistency now where she's not hitting the double faults. The serve is still not particularly effective because there was kind of dominating on return for a lot of this and broke a lot of times.

11:52Catherine Whitaker: But I think it's a good step in the right direction that the double faults are very much under control for the moment. Yeah, it was compelling, but it was also a tough watch.

12:06Matt Roberts: Yeah, it might help us establish whose version of events is true. If she bounces back and she's fine today, that suggests that it was food poisoning. Food poisoning tends to pass more quickly than a virus. Lots at stake for Feliciano Lopez later on today. The women's tournament is at the Round of 16 stage, incidentally, and all of those matches are today. So Coco Goff is in the bottom half of the draw. She faces Linda Nozkova, winner of that, to face the winner of Marta Kostiuk and Katie McNally in the quarterfinals. McNally, David, having upset Victoria Mboko. she also beat Katarina Siniak of a 7-6 in the third why on earth is Katie McNally suddenly popping up David and having a run here what's what's she doing do you know I probably asked

13:09David Law: myself that question last year at Wimbledon when she won the first set against Diga Svjantek and she was the only player to win a set against Diga Svjantek and I remember at the time thinking I haven't heard of Katie Minnelli for ages you know I haven't really seen her in a draw and I always remember you know this was a player that we used to talk about up and coming she played doubles with Coca-Golf and was really a good doubles player and I always remember thinking that she was a good watch and I couldn't quite remember why because it had been so long since we'd seen her play on the tour and so I've been looking it up really this morning just to sort of get a sense of where she's been.

13:52David Law: I mean, she's 24 years old now. But basically, after breaking on the scene, I mean, she was an amazing junior. She actually reached the find of the French Open juniors and lost to Goff in the singles there. She won the doubles that tournament with Yigis Viantic. So this is, what, eight years ago. And she won the US Open doubles juniors with Coco Goff that year. So she's an amazing player. Then breaks on the scene, gets to 54 in the world in about three or four years ago, reaches two doubles finals at the US Open with Coco Goff and Taylor Townsend. And then she injured her elbow and she had surgery to it.

14:32David Law: And basically that was sort of just before the US Open in 2023, pretty much didn't play for 18 months. And then it's, you know, the gradual comeback, the protected ranking last year, I remember seeing her first set she played earlier this year against Sabalenka a few weeks ago. And she was competitive in that. And it was just a great watch. And then I only caught the very tail end of the win over Mboko. But it's such a sort of jarring scoreline. I mean, it was like 3-1. It was just really a dramatic scoreline. And then I followed most of yesterday's match against Siniarkova just on the barge. I was out watching my daughter play tennis at the time, and the barge was just popping off about what was going on in this match.

15:22David Law: And I've gone back and watched the highlights this morning, and I can see why, because Siniakova was leading at 5-4 in the third set. She had a match point, and McNally saved it after what must have been a 20-plus stroke rally that she ended with a stone-cold drop shot winner from the baseline. I mean, the daring to do that on a match point down and pull it off and then just give a little grin afterwards. And then in the tie break, she goes 4-1 ahead, hitting a half-volley backhand drop shot clean winner. Again, just incredible feel and sort of daring. I mean, you know, these are double skills, but I think that that's what it was back then.

16:07David Law: She played the game in a different way. faces Marta Kostiuk now who I watched beat Jessica Pagouli yesterday and I know she beat her quite one-sidedly a few weeks ago but this match I saw most of this and I mean Pagouli was nowhere near she just couldn't cope with the ball striking that was coming away, the winners on the run she'd get in charge of a rally Pagouli occasionally and then Kostiuk's movement to her right to smack a forehand at her and she was serving lights out she looked brilliant and she's had a you know a good couple of months pretty much without playing after the australian open um it enabled me to get her in my fantasy team um when um one of my fellow competitors mark uh thought she was still injured or you know that maybe her best months of 2026 were gone but no they're not they're ahead and i'm taking advantage so it's great anyway i'm looking forward to mcnalia against costia

17:07Matt Roberts: Yes, so that's later on today Winner of that to take on the winner of Goff and Nozkova Below that, at the very bottom of the draw We have got Solana Sierra against Karolina Pliskova There's an unexpected round of 16 match-up Winner of that to take on the winner of Elena Rabakina and Anastasia Potopova Rabakina last night having beaten Jungxin Wen, Matt In a match that I just loved I loved this match it really really gripped me did you feel the same?

17:43Catherine Whitaker: I did yeah why did you love it?

17:45Matt Roberts: intense it was really really intense the stadium had a great vibe about it I know a lot of that was the match that was scheduled afterwards but they showed up for this one you know they knew this was you know this could be a Grand Slam final obviously you know Zheng's still early days in the comeback but it felt blockbuster. It felt like two heavyweights and tennis-wise it felt like two heavyweights. Like I've missed Jung's weight of shot. It is different to anybody else on the WTA. I've missed her court presence, how she carries herself, how she totally backs herself and she doesn't mind how she comes across.

18:33Matt Roberts: She's not there to people please and make friends like I've it was a reminder of for me how much I've I've missed her yeah there

18:43Catherine Whitaker: was a moment where she went up a break at the start of the second set having won the first set and she had an absolutely incredible backhand return that just left left me mouth agape and she had this real look in her eye of exactly what you're saying backing herself kind of this is where I belong this is the tennis I can produce and I thought at that point she might go on to win this match to be honest um Rebecca had struggled in her opening match as well against Rousseau coming off the back of the title last week that's a trend we've seen in Madrid like last week's champions and finalists a lot of them had tough matches in their opening match in Madrid I think that turnaround, different conditions in Madrid.

19:29Catherine Whitaker: And it looked like Rabatkin was sort of struggling to control the ball a little bit in the altitude. And Russo was handling her pace really well. And then similarly, she had some struggles against Zhang and Zhang was playing well. And yeah, I thought this might be the match that propelled Zhang right back into sort of contention. I think in the end, it serves as a reminder of what she can do, but also a reminder of how far she still has to go to get back to where she really was because she wasn't ruthless and clinical when she put herself in that winning position and her serve became a massive liability and really fell apart at some key moments.

20:13Catherine Whitaker: She served three double faults in a game to lose the second set and it kind of cost her in the third as well. So I was really encouraged but also thinking, okay there's still there's still a way to go in the in the young comeback from what has been a long time away and a pretty serious injury um but with Rebecca like she's playing more three set matches on the clay isn't she then than she had been on the hard court she does seem a little bit more vulnerable but she does have this baked in confidence now whereas I think last year when she was playing these three set matches I was kind of expecting her to lose a lot of them I think at the moment I'm expecting her to win them and win the big points and do what she needs to do to get through and then build confidence and really get herself into these tournaments um so yeah she's a compelling watch as well so I agree with you it was it was a really really great double header in

21:11Matt Roberts: Madrid last night with those with those two matches the the Jung serve is a continual fascination to me it's just such an incredible weapon but it is it's a liability as well isn't it there's so much that can that can go wrong it's real heart in mouth stuff um and i did wonder if you know with the you know enforced time on the sidelines whether she might you know use that time come back with a completely different serve but it looks it looks the same to me i know she made a A bit of an adjustment to the toss a couple of seasons ago. But it seems like this is the serve. She's going to press on with this and live and die by that sword.

21:56Matt Roberts: And it's compelling to watch, that's for sure. So Rabakina will play Potipova. That's at the bottom of the draw. Top half of the women's draw. We have another Arena Sabalenka and Naomi Osaka match. having waited a decade, eight years or something, for them to play again for the first time since their first US Open meeting. When would that have been? 2018? They're playing again. It was Indian Wells, wasn't it, where we got to see them play a few weeks ago. And it was a little bit disappointing. Certainly from a Naomi Osaka perspective, perspective it showed up a little bit the ways in which she has stood still more as a tennis player and arena that it showed up all the ways that arena sabalenka has developed as a tennis player and i wouldn't expect that to look any different on clay certainly in madrid although i have liked what i've seen david of isaka so far which is kind of just playing her hardcore game on a clay court and And obviously the conditions in Madrid make that more possible and more effective.

23:09But in previous clay court seasons, she's really overthought it, hasn't she? In a very endearing and relatable way.

23:19Matt Roberts: But I feel like there was that one clay court season where she talked about how she'd been watching videos of Rafael Nadal. And she was going to try and channel that. And she's definitely acutely aware of clay not suiting her. And how can I think and play my way around this? And it feels like this year she's just gone, I'm going to do my thing and see how that works out on the red stuff. And, you know, I suspect it'll work out less well against Rina Sabalenka, but it's been a fun watch so far. Yeah, I can only talk sort of in terms of the logic that I think of when I think of her as a player.

23:55David Law: I don't feel like I've seen enough of her in Madrid. You know, it's just not a tournament that I think of her at. And I've seen a handful of games of her so far in this tournament against Camilla Osorio, which I think is a really good win in the first round, 6-2, 7-5. And actually the scorelines, I didn't watch her win over Angelina Kalinina, but she beat her 6-1, 6-3. You know, these are scorelines. Hit through her. Just amazing scorelines, I think those are. And so I think the fact that she played her recently should help. it should help to kind of okay I've got a marker now I've built up to this moment I've now played Sabalenka it didn't go very well she has moved on she was doing stuff that I don't do and look Sabalenka is brilliant in Madrid I think we have to remember that you know it's but I kind of feel like you can apply more of a hard court game and more of a sort of ball strike that Osaka has, as long as her sights are in, because I think one of the things is she does hit fairly flat ball.

25:04David Law: There is some spin on it, but it will fly through the air. And if her sights are in and she doesn't hit too long all the time, which I think is a danger, particularly off the big ball coming her way, I think she could do some damage in the match. I would still back Sabalenko to win it, but I wouldn't put it past Osaka because it feels like a bit of a free hit to just go out, swing and enjoy it. Whereas I think when she played her in Indian Wells, she perhaps expected a bit more of herself and that's not quite so easy to pull off in that freewheeling manner.

25:41Matt Roberts: Winner of that, Sabalenka Osaka, to face the winner of Bencic and Baptiste, which feels like a very Matt Roberts coded match.

25:53Catherine Whitaker: Yes, that's on very soon, actually. I might have to get the telly on while we're recording this.

25:59David Law: Matt's going to start giving very short answers to my questions. It's so coded to Matt Roberts, he knows exactly when it's on.

26:08Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, big into that. And Baptiste got a good win over Paolini, which, you know, there's two players there who are sort of going in opposite directions, it feels like. You know, like Baptiste is on the rise, I think. and some players I feel like get to their career best ranking because they've got a really high floor and they're really consistent and some people get there because they've got a really high ceiling and I feel like Baptiste is a ceiling player. Do you know what I mean? I think she still is a little vulnerable sometimes. Her game can go off but when she puts it all together it's such a unique game that she's got with a big serve and a really heavy forehand And in Madrid, that was just causing Paulini so many problems.

26:56Catherine Whitaker: Like Baptiste was just dictating. And that's kind of what we've seen a little bit with Paulini this year. She's being dictated to. She's lost that ability that she had for a couple of years to really step in the court and be kind of the force on the court. She now feels like she's always the passive one in the match and people are able to sort of do what they want against her. and it just feels a little bit like there's been a bit of a regression to the mean. I don't know if that's harsh, but I'm not saying she can't get it back, but it feels to me like, you know, for so long she was a different player and then she had this incredible surge and peak for a few years, but quite late in her career, really.

27:43Catherine Whitaker: And it just feels like sort of trying to sustain that for way longer is just proving a little bit hard for her at the moment. I hope she can find a spark in Rome. You know, I sort of, I'm still holding out some hope for that. But it also comes with a lot of pressure and a lot of points to defend. So that could go the other way.

28:04Matt Roberts: And if she doesn't defend all of them, she's dropping out of the top 10. Yeah, her ranking is taking a real hit.

28:12Catherine Whitaker: yeah so it's definitely a tough time for paolini as as we've talked about but i was i was impressed

28:20Matt Roberts: with with baptiste can anyone explain to me what irani and paolini are doing on the doubles court um footage scene this week and look they are multiple grand slam champions i love them as a doubles pairing they know better than me what they're doing i'm sure there is logic behind this But it looked absolutely bananas what they were doing. So it was Irani serving. And look, maybe you've got to try some bananas things to protect the Saar Irani serve. But Paolini, when Irani was serving, was standing on the same side of the court. So they're leaving a whole more than 50 percent of the court just totally unoccupied.

29:09And they're both...

29:10Catherine Whitaker: Presumably it's because they want Paolini on the forehand side.

29:13Matt Roberts: Yes, so Irani then immediately scurries over to the backhand side after she served. This is serving from the juice court. But the one point I saw online, they did not win it and they weren't anywhere close to winning it. And it didn't look like a masterful tactic. But what do I know?

29:39Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I feel like doubles has been played long enough that we've determined that that isn't the way you play doubles.

29:48David Law: If Louis Coyier isn't suggesting it, it's probably not the best idea. Yeah.

29:53Catherine Whitaker: Perhaps it's like, okay, we'll sacrifice this point, but the doubt we're going to put in their minds by doing this. Kind of like a bad underarm serve. Right, yeah, yeah. It might create some problems down the line. Just a bit of a chaos agent.

30:10Matt Roberts: Right. It was definitely that. Perhaps. Yeah. Yeah, Jasmine, I hope you're OK. So we have Sabalenka, Osaka, winner to face Bencic, Baptiste. And then the last little section yet to be discussed below that's in the top half. So the bottom of the top half. Anne Lee and Leila Fernandez. There's Anneli benefiting, obviously, from the retirement of Igor Shvantec. Although it has to be said, she was blooming good, Anneli, in that match. She is a gutsy tennis player, is Anneli. She's fun. She goes for it. Winner of that to take on, the winner of Mira Andreeva against Anna Bondar. Bondar having beaten Alina Svitolina.

30:57Matt Roberts: First real. I don't know Matt I feel like you're um you've got a more encyclopedic Elina Svitolina knowledge than me but first really shocked defeat or certainly surprised defeat for Elina Svitolina

31:10Catherine Whitaker: this season I would say yes probably since she last played Anna Bondar which was oh she got an Anna Bondar problem she might just have an Anna Bondar problem she lost to her at the US Open as well didn't she and then and then took a break shut off her season and came back and has been absolutely brilliant in 2026.

31:34Matt Roberts: Anna Bondar I always get confused with Anna Bogdan and I end up asking you a backhand list question about Anna Bondar and you're like what are you talking about she's never been anywhere near the backhand list.

31:46Catherine Whitaker: You're not the only one.

31:48Matt Roberts: Am I not?

31:49Catherine Whitaker: No people are often

31:50Matt Roberts: mixing those talking to you about Anna Bondar okay yeah I can't give a great deal of insight

31:56David Law: about it but I know that match was on whilst we were recording one of our podcasts last week and I can't remember which one but yeah it was alarming as it was going on to see the score ticking over but yeah it's not the first time but I suppose what I would say is that the US Open last

32:16Catherine Whitaker: Last year, Svitolina was clearly just done for the year. Absolutely. And needed that reset.

32:23Matt Roberts: And she's played a lot of tennis so far this season, hasn't she?

32:29Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, because she likes to play a lot and she's been winning a lot. Yeah. It might be the sort of loss that isn't the worst thing in the world. Yeah.

32:39David Law: And she's done well in Rome before.

32:41Catherine Whitaker: Yes, I associate her more with Rome than Madrid. I think she can get out hit in Madrid. whereas I think Rome, she can really dig in.

32:51Matt Roberts: OK, predictions for the two finalists and eventual champion from here?

32:58David Law: I'll just pencil you both into Sabalenka. I'd have to go for Sabalenka or Vakka.

33:05Matt Roberts: Yeah, the big two.

33:08David Law: They do feel quite inevitable a lot of the time now and yet there's a really packed field. It doesn't feel like the men's field does with Sinner and Alkraus in that they are clearly the best, but it just doesn't feel like anybody's going to get close where a lot of the time... But with... Do you know what I mean? That is my pick, and yet there's a load of good stuff below them and maybe people that could take them out.

33:38Matt Roberts: OK, that is it for the women. we'll be back in part two to talk about the men.

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36:01Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast. We're going to talk about the men's draw in Madrid now, such as it is. Of course, it's all a little bit messier for the men. They're at a combination of the round of 32 and round of 16 stage. So the top half are at the round of 16 and the bottom half are at the round of 32 as we record on Monday morning. let's talk about somebody that we find in that top half who is through to the round of 16 it is 19 year old local boy Rafael Jodar not only is he taken apart Alex Duminor 6-3, 6-1 talk about a statement performance there but then he came back last night in this much anticipated match against fellow 19-year-old Joel Fonseca.

36:58Matt Roberts: And he ended up, despite cramping in the third set, taking him apart too, eventually, after two incredibly tight-fought sets, 7-6, 4-6, 6-1. This match was absolutely crackling. I mean, there was huge anticipation. I was pumped for this. The internet was pumped for this. Tennis fans everywhere were pumped for this. And yet still, Matt, when I tuned in to watch the coin toss for this, having got myself some refreshments after the Rabakina Jung match, I was really taken aback by how crackling the atmosphere and what was inside the Kaha Magica. It takes quite a lot to get that big metal box pumping.

37:47Matt Roberts: and to get the acoustics feeling right and to get it feeling like a proper night session the way that Arthur Ashe does or you know even the main stadium at Indian Wells does for a crackling night session this felt like that and the first two sets of it were absolutely electrifying like I always have quite a lot of anxiety about matches that are so anticipated especially when they've never played before and I'm a bit like yeah it looks great on paper but we just don't know how these games match up together it could be a could be a total flop and it was the opposite of that it for two sets it exceeded all of my expectations it was breathless I could not take my eyes off it it was you know it was a sort of tennis that makes you throw out takes like who needs Sincaraz anyway Carlos Alcaraz who?

38:44Catherine Whitaker: Is that the pod title today? Yeah, like honestly, seeing these two meet for the first time is such a fun stage to watch them at. You know, there's no real baggage there for them. They're both explosive, powerful hitters and they play with that sort of youthful exuberance and going after the ball like that. And, you know, I think you see that when young players play each other. It's a fun stage of their careers to meet. Like some of the weaknesses haven't been sort of ironed out yet. There's still some sort of vulnerability there, but basically they're going after the ball in a really fun way. And I was laughing at the audacity of some of the shot making from both of them, really in those in those first two sets and hold on i like the way he used the crowd like he obviously like the crowd wasn't fully with him because fonseca had an enormous amount of support there but he used what he had but in a in quite a composed way he's he's not he's not alcaraz in in that he's, you know, smiling and sort of telling them to come with him and that sort of thing.

40:04Catherine Whitaker: But he was definitely getting them involved in a way that I hadn't really seen from him before. I think he sensed the occasion last night, Hoda, and kind of rose to it and stepped up to it while remaining composed. And then was composed in that third set when he was cramping. And I think Fonseca played a terrible third set, if I'm being honest, like a real collapse from him. Having won the second, he had the momentum and he had an opponent who was struggling. And unfortunately, he stopped actually hitting winners, but he was just hitting a load of unforced errors.

40:40Matt Roberts: But he also wasn't in lockdown mode either.

40:42Catherine Whitaker: He wasn't working the point. He wasn't making Hodder move or making him doubt, really. It was a really poor third set, I thought, from Fonseca. and we saw a big racket smash from him as well, didn't we? When he lost his serve at the start of it. Yeah, I mean, look, I love this match. Just to offer a tiny bit of cool on the fire, can I offer you some slight scepticism from your friend of mine, Matt Futterman? Of course, he had a slightly different take on this match than everyone else. Well, he is in Madrid, isn't he? He was in the stadium and we should preface this by saying he was operating on three hours of sleep on a plane and had gone straight to the magic box.

41:30Catherine Whitaker: But, you know, fair play, Matt. He wanted to be there for that night session. So he was. And he was not quite as taken with either of these two's games as maybe we were watching on the TV. and he was talking, he said, what I didn't see tonight, I didn't see either player use tactics to flip a point. He said, think of the discipline that a Nadal or a Djokovic, even a Sinner, even to some extent Alcaraz in terms of knowing what shot to use at the right time, had at that young age. And I think that is something that I'm certainly seeing with Fonseca a little bit. I don't feel like I've seen enough of Hodder to necessarily say that.

42:16Catherine Whitaker: But I think we can get very lulled in by shot making, I think is basically the point there. And actually, when we've seen Fonseca play Zverev, as he did recently, for example, he had an injection, Fonseca, that was amazing. But Zverev's steadiness and understanding of when to lock down his game, as you're saying there, Catherine, I mean, that is something I think both of these guys are going to have to develop. But they're obviously so young and they can develop it. It's just that we have seen some real greats have that trait at a young age.

42:54Matt Roberts: Yeah.

42:55Catherine Whitaker: I think it was a great watch. I don't want to be down on it, but I think it was a good point from that.

43:02Matt Roberts: Yeah. And that does kind of tie in with a thought I was having while watching that you kind of also made as well. like how symptomatic of youth that match felt and how most of Hodah's performances feel right now. And like, if you've got youth, use it, channel it, of course. Like, use it while you can, kids. Like, if you're just swinging freely and going for everything and they're going in, do that while you can. It is not sustainable. It made me think of Emma Raducanu in her press conference after she lost a terrible match at the Australian Open earlier this year. And the writing was on the wall for her coaching relationship with Francisco Roig.

43:53Matt Roberts: And she said, I want to get back to playing how I did when I was younger and playing the way that won me the US Open. And I thought, I totally understand why you want that. And of course you want that. And that seems logical, but I don't think that's possible because that way of playing was only possible because you were 18 and unseeded and, you know, coming through qualifying and not saying she can't find a version of that again. But I don't think she'll ever find that way of playing again, just going for every single return without a care in the world. You know, if we could all capture that element of youthfulness, then, you know, we'd have figured out all the ills of the world, wouldn't we?

44:43Matt Roberts: We'd have it all sorted. so I do like I don't think there's any problem now with with him playing that way Houdar but it doesn't necessarily think oh he's going to be a grand slam champion in the in the future because I don't think this style of tennis is actually going to be what wins in grand slams if he if he does if that makes sense are we a real downer are we a piss on the bonfire i do have a slightly

45:14David Law: different view of him based on what i've seen um my biggest question mark over him is physical just at the moment he i've seen him against artifice um kind of overpowering fees and then eventually just being embroiled in a physical battle that Feast won. It was like a tug of war coming to my territory. And I know Feast is young, but he's already now that he's got over the back let's hope. But he already feels like a fully grown man who's ready to just take on anybody physically. Hoda is so sinewy. He is rake thin, which is fine. That's his build, but I also think he will grow into that frame a bit more as time goes on.

46:07David Law: He needs to build stamina. I don't think his legs are ready for five sets yet, really. That's my sense. I've seen it a couple of times now. But in terms of the way he plays...

46:19Matt Roberts: Well, they weren't ready for three sets last night, David. I mean, he was in trouble and Fonseca did not exploit that at all. You know, he was not being subtle about it. he was flapping away to his team saying, get me electrolytes and pickle juice.

46:35David Law: And that may be nerves and energy exposed, used up emotionally. You know, he was very, he did get like, when he did, he's very quiet in between points. And then suddenly there's an explosion of emotion when he's had a big moment. And look, you know, like you say, he's playing in Madrid. The noise was incredible. You know, he's building up to it. But in terms of his actual game, I feel like his power is produced seemingly with such little exertion. I don't feel as though it's unsustainable. I feel that this is his game and that he is not winging away at the ball. and I would draw a direct contrast to his opponent here because Fonseca slashes at the ball and you know when he's going for four because of the sound he makes as he hits it.

47:31David Law: You know, it's a different sound to his rally ball. Hodder's rally ball is knocking lumps out of people. This is what gets me. It's the sheer weight of shots without him going for clean winners. And he sometimes even hits clean winners when he does that. so I think he is a massive problem for people in terms of his actual game the fact that he knocked Dimonor off the court for the last four games I think that that is more illuminating than beating Fonseca um I just I just think that there are players and I'd probably put Zverev in this camp Zverev I think if he plays him will put away this idea of wanting to take people out with his first strike and he'll say i'm going to play 30 straight rallies with you and do what i used to do and eventually i'll take your legs away um but for a while i could imagine knocking knocking winners galore past him early on you know it's just i'm just looking into the future i think this kid is an extraordinary hitter just just his his just forehand and backhand strike without trying to pull the trigger and yet yeah and it's it's when you look at him

48:46Matt Roberts: you think well where is this power coming from it's time and and the x factor you know that that the composure that you know there is a look in his eye i trust him yes and you know absolutely no question mark on the fang front for i love the fact that he only has his dad in the box there's nobody else there he doesn't have an agent i mean he will soon but he doesn't have an agent at the moment i think they've got somebody that's sort of helping them out because obviously things must have got chaotic very quickly somebody that his dad knows but you know how how wonderful is that let's enjoy this moment in time while while we can reminds me of early um

49:28David Law: Early Mike Tyson used to walk out of the locker room wearing just black shorts, no socks and black shoes. He didn't have a robe. He didn't have a team. He didn't have any music. He just walked to the ring when he was 18 and just went and knocked people out. I kind of like that sort of throwback sort of basic, let's not make a fuss about it. Let's just go and do it.

49:53Matt Roberts: We are a Vit Kapriva and a Kam Norrie away from Hodar Sinna, which would be a quarterfinal. Are we going to get that? And is it going to be good if we do get it? Or is Sinna going to give him a schooling?

50:13Catherine Whitaker: I would slightly worry about Hodar's legs that deep into the tournament at this stage. if he's got you know one more match and then Yannick Sinner I think we I think we think we will get it I think he's probably got one more win in him he's got a day off today hasn't he so I think that's helpful but yeah like and he is in the Sinner mold like we do say that about Sinner as well where does this power come from you know which is interesting to have a to have a guy in that mold um and look i'm not down on holla i'm i think i think he's fantastic but i do think it's an interesting point that like we assume he's going to make those physical developments right but they're not easy to make and i think he does have to make them because you know he needs the extra power in the legs he needs the endurance and i think all of that would help him with being able to have the rally tolerance and stick in rallies you know and add some of that sort of layers to his game but it's a big development to have to make it's just not it's not a guarantee that it happens but I really hope it does because I agree with both of you like that strike on the ball is just something else and it was like a kind of I kind of felt like for Fonseca it must have been like you know there's always a bigger fish kind of situation right where like they brought up that graphic of the ground stroke speed and i've never seen fonseca not be top of that in terms of like average ground stroke speed through a match even when he played sinner the other week he was top of that but hoddard was ahead of him you know and that must have been a bit of a shock i think for fonseca and and maybe that explains some of why he didn't he sort of went away in this match and he's still young as well and we shouldn't we shouldn't sort of totally write him off but it's a fascinating situation to be in but i suspect to answer your question And Catherine, I suspect at the moment, Sina is far too well-rounded and too good a mover and too good an absorption of a lot of that heat that can come from Hodars Raki as well.

52:22And I think he would beat him probably in straight sets.

52:26Catherine Whitaker: But I do want to see it.

52:28Matt Roberts: Yannick Sina keen to let the world know that he doesn't need dating apps. That's the viral Yannick Sina moment from Madrid so far.

52:37Catherine Whitaker: He's always keen to let people know his relationship status, isn't he? Do you remember that? There is no girl in the press conference. Yeah.

52:46Matt Roberts: I mean, there definitely was a girl, but yeah.

52:52Matt Roberts: So Sinner against Norrie. Norrie's coming for Sinner. Oh, just finally on Rodar. It does look like he's too good. He's going to get himself seeded for the French Open, which is extraordinary in itself, but does take a bit of the orangery fun away, doesn't it? Waiting to see where Hodog... I mean, it'll still be fun to see where he comes out in the draw because he'd be a low seed and he'd still be scheduled to play one of the high seeds in round three. But it's, yeah, slightly less fun, isn't it? So, yeah, Cam Norrie is coming for Yannickson. I do like his attitude, Cam Norrie. You know, in these matches where he's heavy underdog, He says, I'm coming for you.

53:36Matt Roberts: I'm not going to be afraid. I might lose, but I'm not going to be afraid. So Nori Sinner to face the winner of Chodar Kapriva. The winner of that section to face the winner of the Echeverry-Fis-Lehetschka-Muzetti section. So we have a potential Fis-Muzetti rematch in the quarterfinals if Muzetti can come through Lehetschka and Fis-Echeverry. good signs for Muzzetti I would say David he was one of those where on our in our emergency pod on Friday we were like he should be a name that we're looking to you know in terms of if he falls in the bottom half of the draw potentially coming through all the way to the final except that he's coming coming back from injury and his form and confidence isn't or hasn't been where he's wanted it to be but big strides so far, I would say, in Madrid.

54:39David Law: I think so. I saw him play Talon Grigspoor yesterday and Grigspoor played pretty well. But Mazzetti is building here. He was showing the full repertoire yesterday. I mean, it really is. If you just want to watch a tennis match for an experience of a player having all the shots and utilising them and when to use them. He is a joy to watch. He's an artist on the court. And actually I've got this little theory building that the injury might end up helping his hopes of doing well at Roland Garros because he can't peak too early. You know, last year he reached the final of Monte Carlo and then he got injured in that final.

55:33David Law: And we've seen that before from him. And he's been, frankly, written off, really, since the Australian Open because he just hasn't been able to play properly and he's not looked right and nobody's making any song and dance about him at the moment. Suddenly Alcraz is out, who's one of his biggest problems. When you think of match-ups, Alcraz just is always the guy that... I'm sure we've seen Sinner beat him very handily as well. But look, if he does end up in the other half of the draw to Sinner, I think he's got a real chance. Because as long as his body holds up, because he's building confidence right now, I don't necessarily expect him to go that far in Madrid.

56:17David Law: I think if he wins through these two next matches, I think he'll have done incredibly well. But I bet you when he gets to Rome, he's looking better than he is now. Rome's a better suit it's a it's more closely aligned with Roland Garros I think he is gonna be significant in the next month as long as he can just stay fit I can see the confidence building

56:38Matt Roberts: in him does all of that also apply to Art of Feas well yeah I mean look Feas is already there

56:46David Law: really I mean the truth is I don't think Feas has been great in Madrid I mean he should have lost in the first round really he was he was pretty fortunate to to beat Bousset um and then in the last round he beat Emilio Nava um who also caused him some troubles you know it was a first set tie break um he led 3-1 feast and then he got broken back it was a better performance from him but I think he finds the altitude and the kind of just he doesn't feel like he's got that much control over the ball he he's hitting long quite a lot um but the fact is he he's a winner he's he is a clutch player like he wins a lot of tie breaks and a lot of important matches where it looks like he's going to lose and i i remember i know we had a recent match with him and mazzetti in barcelona that that's a good reference point but i still don't think that's the real mazzetti yet but i always remember and it wasn't a match i saw but i remember matt futterman telling us about a match they played in India Wells last year that kind of made him feel glad to be alive.

57:49David Law: You know, it was one of those sort of final set tie-break matches of two young players just playing, driving a crowd wild. And so that would be a very good little marker, I think, for them both. But I just, yeah, as sad as it is about Alcraz, I just think it makes all the other players a bit more interesting. And there are some interesting players jockeying and trying to build something in the next few weeks?

58:21Matt Roberts: Stefanos Tsitsipas seems to have found something out of somewhere. Look, it's only victories over Patrick Kipson and a pretty poor Alexander Bublik. But we're at a stage with Stefanos Tsitsipas where back-to-back wins is quite a big deal. He's got Daniel Merida for a place in the round of 16 later on today. winner of that to face Davidovich Fikina or Kaspar Rude, another player who's got to be lighting up at the prospect of Carlos Alcaraz not being at Roland Garros. Daniel Medvedev still in the draw. Was it in Madrid where Medvedev had his Illuminati moment? I think it was. It might have been.

59:08Matt Roberts: That is what I associate. What was that? he was questioning the I think it was something to do with electronic line calling and the umpire referenced a they, he said they they say it's fine or that you know the umpire referenced sort of powers that be in an oblique way and Medvedev said who is they, the Illuminati

59:38yes

59:38David Law: Yes, okay.

59:40Matt Roberts: So Medvedev, he plays Nikolai Budkov-Kia, who beat Denis Shapovalov, who got booed off the court after that performance. Flavio Gaboli is still going strong. Bottom of the draw, we've got Alexander Zverev, who loves Madrid, two-time former champion. And he faces Terence Atman later on today. Matt, tell us about Terence Atman's win over countrymen and fellow lefty Ugo Mbair in the previous round.

1:00:15Catherine Whitaker: I mean, I'm not going to do this justice. So everyone just go and seek out the last probably 20 minutes of this match. But Atman was experiencing like as bad cramps as you can possibly experience. He was on the floor, writhing around in pain, screaming out in that second set tiebreak, having won the first set. And still managed to win the set. Ugo and Bear played truly some of the worst tennis you can possibly play against an injured opponent. Like rule number one, make them play, make them move. And he didn't do either of those things. He coughed up errors. He didn't try any drop shots. He totally fell to pieces.

1:01:09Catherine Whitaker: And yeah, there's a pretty cold handshake between the two of them. Obviously, they're both French. I get the feeling that Atman is a little separate. He's an outsider, I think, isn't he? Yeah, I think he's a sort of lone wolf, isn't he, a little bit. He sort of does his own thing, which I really like. I really like him and his personality. He's great in interviews. I really like watching him on court. he's pretty quirky yeah I'm sort of in on Terence Atman but yeah there was there was a pretty cold handshake between the two of them I think Umber's issue and Atman said this afterwards he understood Umber's frustration because you know he was definitely taking way more than 25 seconds between points you know and the umpire was not enforcing that I mean he was literally taking about a minute sometimes because he was on the floor I mean he couldn't he couldn't get up he couldn't move And that was very much also the issue that apparently Jeremy Shardy had from the Umber box.

1:02:11Catherine Whitaker: The Keep were reporting that he confronted the umpire backstage. The umpire is also French, I think. Yes, Alexandre Rouba. And apparently Mohamed Leani, of course Mohamed Leani was involved. He apparently had to intervene and I don't know if break anything up is the right word, but just help calm things down maybe. Because, yeah, Chardin and Baer were crossed that those time violations were not being penalised. But honestly, you've never seen a tennis player cramp like this. He could not move at all. Kind of got it together in the last couple of points of the tie break, but it should have been over by then.

1:02:55Catherine Whitaker: the set should have been won by Umber and yeah that was that was a really poor moment for Umber

1:03:07Matt Roberts: So now he's got to come back and face Alexander Zverev Terence Atman From this point I know it's trickier with the men because some of them are only at the round of 32 stage but who do you think our two finalists will be from here? should i pencil you in for yannick sinner both of you yeah i think yeah probably feel fairly comfortable about that yeah you're gonna go sinner sinner zveriv or tempted by feath i'm not convinced by feathes is in the sinner so muzzetti and feathes are both top half aren't they so tough but then I can't look at anybody

1:03:50David Law: in that half the draw and think I'm absolutely confident of them would you take the field

1:03:55Catherine Whitaker: in that bottom half over Zverev maybe not a name but take the field I think I'd probably

1:04:06David Law: have a look at Kasparud I think as the defending champion I think he's somebody we often forget really Why are you looking at me? Probably all J.I.

1:04:22Catherine Whitaker: Lassim as well Someone we forget Former finalist Who doesn't mind Madrid And I think he's able to play He's able to slightly play his game a bit more I think in Madrid than he is on other clay courts So sort of serve him plus one forehand He's able to I wouldn't necessarily He wouldn't necessarily be my pick but I think we could overlook him.

1:04:43David Law: I just feel like if Kasparud could stay fit for the next six weeks, I mean, he must be thinking. I mean, I'm sure they have to not think this about the opportunity that's there. Like, you can't really afford to get carried away, but he's another guy. Do you think it? Maybe you do. He's just got such a good clay court game. It is, I don't know whether he's quite what he was because of the injuries he's getting except, but I still think of two years ago when he won the first set against Verev at the French Open, like 6-2, and then he got ill. Remember, he had a bug and he was really unwell and he faded away.

1:05:23David Law: And I think he was going to win that match. And it just strikes me that all of these guys, this is the moment they've been waiting for. Yeah, and I personally, look,

1:05:35Matt Roberts: it'll vary a bit for different players and their personalities and their situations. But I actually think, you know, I know, I think they should be thinking like that. I know a healthy amount of delusion is necessary for tennis players, but I think the level of delusion that has been required for the likes of Kasper Rude, Felix Auger, Eliassime, Stefanos Sitzapas, to really believe that they can beat Yannick Sinner and Carlos Alcaraz potentially back-to-back is, well, it's in the not healthy amount of delusion category, like it's in the ludicrous category. So I think one of them being gone totally changes the complexion of the next few weeks for them, and they should be looking at it as as that kind of an opportunity and it would also be really interesting whether like if one of them can take advantage and get to the final and let's say even beat sinner let's say

1:06:50Catherine Whitaker: something as dramatic as that happens it'd be interesting whether that is enough to sort of then help them join that group when when we're back to cinema and alcri as both being sort of healthy like is probably is the level of is the level of tennis just lower it probably just depends

1:07:08Matt Roberts: who it is right i mean i do think the level of tennis is just that's what i mean really like it's in terms of the delusion like you can you can tell yourself it's about belief and if i just believe that i can beat them then i can but i i do think there is a fundamental they are so much

1:07:25David Law: better at tennis than everybody else that if caspar rude did those things i think that would be the crowning moment of his career i don't expect that to then start being repeated but if a guy like hodda or feast were to do it whose days their best days i think are ahead of them

1:07:41Matt Roberts: i think it could fast track them yeah feast feast definitely i mean hodda too i just don't think he i just don't think he will like five best of five sets is such a mousetti's a mousetti's an interesting one on that front and i have thought that like the way someone might muscle in it would be on a specific surface potentially you know like and i you know sustaining it and keeping it up the

1:08:13Catherine Whitaker: whole year and living with synodalcoids across all the surfaces is feeling very tough for sort of anyone right now because they're so good and adaptable to all the surfaces but you know someone who can absolutely peak and be their best on clay. And I do think Feast and Mazzetti are kind of in that category, I would say, with the, well, certainly for Feast, with the heavy forehand. Gary Nathan wrote a piece this week about Feast, sort of comparing him to team a little bit with that heavy forehand. So, yeah, like, look at us. We're finding the positives in the Alcarazlis world. Hmm.

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1:10:17Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast. Just before we get on to the pretty big bit of news from the WTA about Portia Archer intending to step down from her role as CEO of the WTA. An update on something we were discussing last week, Marketa Vondroshova's anti-doping case, which is ongoing at the moment. I said I would make inquiries with the ITIA about their policy on the gender of testers and in particular testers that were sent to players' homes. And we have received a response from the ITIA. They've been very helpful. In fact, they listened to the pod and preemptively sent a response to my inquiry before I'd even had to reach out to them.

1:11:09Matt Roberts: So I really appreciate that. They said the gender of the tester always matches the player, whether they are tested at an event or out of competition at their home, hotel, etc. In terms of Vondrosheva's case, they said it's treated as any other doping case. The player will have every opportunity to put their side of the story and provide any supporting evidence. And the tribunal is independent of the ITIA. Four years is the maximum term of ban that Vondroshova could be subject to because it is a fundamental part of any testing programme in sport, in any sport, that you cannot refuse a test. If the consequence of that was a small sanction, then it would be open season for those who choose to dope to take a lesser sanction than if they tested positive.

1:11:59Matt Roberts: Of course, a panel will look at any mitigations and they will make the ultimate decision on the level of fault and therefore the appropriate sanction. You also mentioned resource. And this is something we are aware of. We do have some support available for players which we launched last year. And they've provided a link to details about that support. We can pop that in our show notes, perhaps. And he says that is there to assist players to look into contamination cases. And the spokesman also says we work with Sporting Chance, the organisation, so that players going through a process have someone to talk to about it.

1:12:42Matt Roberts: So a helpful response there from the ITIA. And any updates on the Vondroshova case, we will, of course, keep you posted. On to the WTA and some pretty big news from them this week. This from a WTA statement. Portia Archer has informed us of her decision to step down from her role as CEO, effective April 20th ahead of her contract renewal. We are working through a transition plan for the leadership of the WTA Tour and we'll share an update on this by mid-May. Portia has made important contributions to our tournaments, are players in the advancement of women's tennis. Among her achievements, she expanded into new markets, championed player-first initiatives, enhanced safeguarding standards, drove technological innovation, and worked tirelessly to strengthen the WTA's role in the broader tennis community.

1:13:39Matt Roberts: I suspect, David, that this is not unrelated to the situation that we've been talking about with Saudi Arabia. They mention in the statement there, among her achievements, she expanded into new markets. Well, one of those was Saudi Arabia. It's been reported in the last couple of weeks that the WTA would have liked that arrangement, that deal, that contract for Riyadh to host the WTA finals to continue beyond the original contract of three years, so to continue beyond this year, but that Saudi Arabia aren't interested in that. That's a lot of chips that the WTA, led by Portia Archer, put on Saudi Arabia.

1:14:20Matt Roberts: You know, they sacrificed a lot for the benefits that they were receiving from that arrangement. And the fact that against their will, it's been, well, it's ending. I don't know. I suspect that felt unsurvivable. I don't know. What's your reaction to this news?

1:14:47David Law: difficult to know really without hearing specifically from her um i i i see i definitely see the logic to the point you're making there um i think maybe the um the riyadh deal was able to bridge them financially until they were able to get a a blue chip sponsor which they have now in mercedes um and look you know i'm i'm ultimately happy that they're leaving saudi arabia and if If they end up with a place that's got a roaring crowd and hasn't got the human rights issues that Saudi Arabia has got, then all good. Difficult to, it's such a short amount of time, isn't it? Three years, one cycle for a leader of that level.

1:15:32David Law: I find it difficult to tell how much has been achieved, really. Yes, there was that move to Saudi Arabia. She also led the investigation into Stefano Vukov, which was then, you know, he was suspended and then he was unsuspended. But it just feels like there's not enough time to follow much through and make really material change to me. But I don't know her reasons. so I guess we'll wait and see if she comes out with anything but these are important positions to fill and I want it to be a position filled by a woman and to sort of have that leadership I feel like there's so much good about women's tennis right now both in terms of the field of players the fact that Mercedes have come on board this is a great opportunity now to drive the next era really and I hope they make the right decision

1:16:43Matt Roberts: so you take the statement at face value that this was Paul Schroecher's decision and the WTA would have liked her to continue

1:16:52David Law: yeah I mean listen I don't know Paul Schroecher I've not I haven't met her I don't know whether there might be something in her life that means that this is difficult to continue so I wouldn't want to speculate but um yeah there are a number of things that that it could be

1:17:12Matt Roberts: okay that is it for news for this edition of the tennis podcast we have another show on Friday of this week so if anything else pops up we'll keep you posted we'll be back to talk about Madrid which will be at the semi-final stage by Friday I think so we'll talk about everything that's going to unfold over the next five days we also have a live show on Sunday night so show on Friday and then the show after that will be live on Sunday night after the Madrid men's final that is scheduled for 8pm UK time unless it turns out to be an absolute epic and we have to delay that but provisional planning and it should be okay we should be safe 8pm UK time Sunday night for kind of next week's Monday pod if you like.

1:18:08Matt Roberts: We will also be recording over the coming weeks our next two editions of Tennis Relived for Friends of the Tennis Podcast our series where we tell stories from tennis's rich history. And our Roland Garros issue of Tennis Relived is going to focus on Nicola Piatranjali. And our Wimbledon edition of Tennis Relived for this year is going to focus on the men's tournament in 1996. One, to everybody's surprise, most people's surprise, by Richard Krychek. he beat Malavie Washington in a very surprising final surprising for a number of reasons not least and I know that this is what springs to mind for a lot of people when they think of the 1996 Wimbledon men's finals there was a streaker there was a streaker before that match and we would like to speak to that streaker for this edition of Tennis Relived for important journalistic reasons David genuinely.

1:19:16Matt Roberts: She was called, she is called Melissa Johnson. She was 23 in 1996, which would make her 53 now. She did do an interview with The Sun a couple of years ago, which makes me think that, you know, she's not, she's not desperately trying, she's not in a witness protection program. She's not desperately trying to distance herself from 1996. So this is a come and get me plea, folks, to Melissa Johnson.

1:19:50Matt Roberts: I'm desperate to track you down, Melissa. If you are Melissa or if you know Melissa or you know someone who knows Melissa or you know someone who knows Melissa's dog walker, please get in touch and let us know. So info at tennispodcast.net or you can get on the barge. Maybe we'll start a streaker thread on the barge. Who knows what could pop up on there? Message us on Instagram. Melissa, any way you like, please get in touch. I'd love to speak to you and hear about your experience of that 1996 men's final in the aftermath. because we do important journalism here at the Tennis Podcast and we are nothing if not...

1:20:38Matt Roberts: Us and the sun. Us and the sun. We are nothing if not completists in our approach to tennis relived. So there it is, a come and get me plea for Melissa Johnson. Folks, we have two mascots for this episode. It is Delilah and Jug. And they are owned by Caroline and Fran. Caroline writes, my wife Fran and I adopted both Delilah and Jug in 2019. This is the third year for Delilah, who's the Siamese cat. And the second year, oh no, sorry, third year for Delilah and first year for Jug, who's the American short hair cat. I'm looking at a picture of them both. One, I think it is Jug is in a cardboard box and Delilah is looking a bit forlorn on the outside of the cardboard box.

1:21:34Matt Roberts: Jug prefers watching figure skating. Yes, Jug, but is supportive of his mum's tennis viewing. Delilah is happy to lounge around and shows tepid interest in television. they are adorable unclear from the photo whether they're friends I'm going to choose to believe that they are but you never know with cats I had two cats growing up and they were not friends one of them wanted to be one of them didn't and for a friendship to bloom you've both got to be on the same page they're lovely I do like a Siamese cat Jog is lovely too but Delilah is Delilah's a real beauty, you're both beautiful I have no favourites thank you Carolyn and Fran for bringing Delilah and Jog to today's show hello to our mascots Bodie, Maisie and Roger, hello to our top folks and executive producers Greg, Chris and Jeff and Matt let's have some shout outs

1:22:40Catherine Whitaker: we have Michelle Dean from Newport Beach, California. And Michelle says, like Michelle, Larkshire Debrito.

1:22:50Matt Roberts: Oh, very good, Michelle.

1:22:53Catherine Whitaker: Good work, Michelle.

1:22:54Matt Roberts: Very good. And like Michelle, you that did the now famous interview with Sebastian Corder, where she asked him about, she accidentally asked him about having sex with Flavio Gabali. she's iconic stuff

1:23:19Catherine Whitaker: her work also includes interviewing david on the big stage in indian wells

1:23:27David Law: remember it well hope you're doing well michelle she didn't ask me about what else do we know about our michelle

1:23:39Catherine Whitaker: Michelle has attended three of the four slams with Wimbledon still to go. However, Michelle did see Olympic tennis at Wimbledon.

1:23:50Matt Roberts: Gosh, those tickets were hard to get, Michelle. Wow. Wow. I wonder who she saw. Let us know, Michelle. That's incredibly cool. Thank you, Michelle.

1:24:07Catherine Whitaker: we also have emma bowhill who is from termine feckin county lowe ireland oh emma said that very deliberately really tested matt uh yes i had to be careful not to do a michelle you

1:24:29David Law: I thought that was happening which is a bit like how Emma Navarro plays tennis very deliberately nice

1:24:38Catherine Whitaker: I see what you did there David yep Emma says Emma says my family joined our local tennis club this year it has four clay courts and we're really enjoying playing and having lessons my nine year old is way better than me.

1:24:57Matt Roberts: Clay courts. That's cool.

1:25:01Catherine Whitaker: Hmm. Tennis' classroom, as Mayor Crillo would say.

1:25:06Matt Roberts: No wonder your nine-year-old's better than you. They've learnt on a clay court. That's really cool. Thank you, Emma.

1:25:14Catherine Whitaker: And finally we have Judy Singleton from Rocky Hill, New Jersey. Judy! Hi, Judy. like Judy Dalton like Judy Dalton and Judy has says this year I will complete three quarters of the Fan Grand Slam I go to the US Open every year in 2014 I got tickets to the Wimbledon men's final between Federer and Djokovic from the overseas ballot and this year I got selected for Roland Garros tickets so see you in Paris Yes, Judy.

1:25:54Matt Roberts: And see you one day in Australia, hopefully, to complete that fan slam. But before that, we'll see you in Paris. That's incredibly cool. Judy, Michelle and Emma, thank you very much for being friends with The Tennis Podcast. If you'd like to become a friend, the link is in our show notes. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. Thank you for listening. We'll speak to you on Friday.

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