Madrid - Sabalenka stopped, but what about Sinner?

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1:16Matt Roberts: Well, hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast, where it is Friday morning, men's semifinals Day in Madrid with the women's final to come on Saturday and the men's final following on Sunday. Lots has unfolded since we last podded on Monday, including a winning end to the season for coach David Law. Hello, David.

1:40David Law: Yes, hello. On a number of levels, really, because my son's football team last night was victorious with their third win in a row, of which I am one of the coaches. and also my fantasy team has both women's finalists in it and a men's semi-finalist as we come to you right now so I am indeed inspiring people everywhere I go.

2:05Matt Roberts: Meanwhile Matt's fantasy team is unexpectedly being held together at the seams by Alexander Blocks. I mean thank goodness for Alexander Blocks Matt.

2:16Catherine Whitaker: Yeah it was a good pick that wasn't it it's just a shame my other nine were so bad but I am quite pleased with myself for picking out Blocks at the start of the year he's had a nice rise uh yeah I do appear to be in a stage several tournaments in a row where Alexander Blocks is my last man standing and that wasn't the strategy of my

2:36Matt Roberts: fantasy team but here we are we go with the flow with our with our fantasy teams okay lots to get into today because there's a lot of ground to cover, including an exclusive on Emirado Karnu's latest coaching developments later in the show. Stay tuned for that. But we're going to start with a report from the heart of things in Madrid because Matt Futterman of The Athletic is on the ground at the Caja Magica and he has sent us this bit of magic. Hey there, podcast friends. Greetings from Madrid. I want to start by saying the hardest thing for me about being a tennis writer is separating the signal from the noise.

3:18I know I'm supposed to be able to look at a player or a tournament and sort the great from the good and explain what it means and why it's important. The truth is I mostly feel lost. One moment I think I think something and the next I'm talking myself out of it. Do you all know who Yogi Berra was? He was the catcher for all those great Yankee teams in the 1950s. His unique truths are known as yogi-isms. There's an old quote he gets credited for that goes something like this. It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. That's what I'm thinking about in Madrid as this oddball tournament unfolds.

3:55Sorry, I didn't have Alexander blocks in the semis on my bingo card. And I know Alexander didn't have it on his. He didn't even think he was very good at tennis on clay. Even in a normal year, Madrid is an outlier. Hard and dry red clay at a couple thousand feet of altitude only tells you so much. Rafael Nadal only won it five times, compared with double-digit wins on the other dirt. And this is hardly a normal year. All those withdrawals on the men's side, then half the field starts puking. Can you imagine how crappy Ega must have felt to bail in the middle of a third set? Coco has her head in the trash can and somehow wins.

4:34But then the next day, she can't close from 4-1 and two breaks up in the third set, and 4-2 up in the tiebreak. Is that because of intestinal problems or something else? I don't know. Hindsight would tell us that Coco's French Open win last year had its roots in Madrid, where she made the final. Did it? I suppose. Does the loss to Linda Nascova in the round of 16 foretell red clay disappointment ahead? Or was just getting to a third set tiebreak a day after she looked like she wanted to curl up on the side of the court and take a nap, a sign of how good she is on clay? I view Madrid as a version of tennis purgatory.

5:12That's not a comment on the venue, which I find seductively utilitarian other than the crap Wi-Fi and self-service. If you're a fan of the modernist school of architecture, it's beautifully sleek, a true intersection of form and function. If you're not, it's got all the charm of a tennis version of Ikea. Not surprisingly, I can argue it both ways. It's a massive, translucent steel and concrete box with metal screening on the sides that lets in air and light. Inside the box are three stadiums, all with roofs, all about 20 steps from each other, and then a line of field courts stretching out across a wetland, also about 20 steps from one another and everything else.

5:53There's a lot of shade if you need that, and with the Iberian sun, you do. The 4-0 Italico it is not. You're not missing a ton if you never make it to the Magic Box. But it kind of works, especially when it rains. Madrid is a pretty glorious and welcoming city, which helps. Spaniards have never been anything but warm to me. You get a mountain of ice cream for five euros at the Magic Box. Jude Bellingham shows up. And I have to admit, I kind of like IKEA. But I digress. Purgatory. Why? I think it's a function of its place in the calendar and the conditions. I know it's supposed to be a part of the big lead-up to Roland Garros.

6:31I actually view it almost the same way I look at the Sunshine Double. It's supposed to be kind of big and important, but I really feel like it's more of a last chance to play for the sick of playing before the really important shit comes fast and furious. Except maybe, just maybe, we're going to look back at this year's edition of Madrid as a hinge moment in the sport, the week when Haley Baptiste and Rafael Jodar came of age. If you haven't watched Baptiste, please start. She might be the closest thing America has to Roger Federer. No, I don't think she's going to win 20 Grand Slam titles. But on any given day, she can put on a wild display of tennis artistry.

7:10She gives that illusion of floating across the court into her shots. Her touch volleys are ridiculous. She has about eight different forehands. Her sliced backhand can torture opponents. Her head has long been a work in progress, though. She'd be the first to tell you this. I know there are still matches to go, but it's hard to believe that something will top Baptiste saving six match points against Sabalenka and then hammering that cross-court forehand to the postage stamp on the only match point she needed to knock off the world number one. I don't really believe that careers turn on the outcome of a single match.

7:46It's nice for a narrative, but a successful career is about so much more. Did you know that Leila Fernandez now has$8 million in career prize money? Emma Raducanu has 6.7. Think about that. Here's what I think is important about Haley Baptiste in Madrid, even though she lost her semi to Mera Andreva. She blew some match points in the second set against Belinda Bencic and smashed the shit out of her racket. It was an all-time bludgeoning. I was worried for the clay. Then she took a deep breath and cruised through the third set. She served for the match in the third set against Sabalenka and lost.

8:21She was down in the tiebreak. She kept coming, playing each point on its own merit. She won, but easily could have lost. It's the competing and resetting that, if anything, could be signal rather than noise. That brings me to Hodar. I came away from his match with Fonseca wowed but worried. Amazing power from those two. But they seem like a function of a tennis culture that can get a little too wrapped up in speed and spin. Look, no one loves to sell out running forehand winner more than I do. But I stopped counting how many of those Fatsika and Hodar tried and missed against each other. I know we're living in an era of first strike tennis.

8:58I also believe that the really great ones know how to extend points and work their way out of trouble. And then they unleash the howitzer. Three days later, I watched Hodar take a blow to the chin in the first set against Sinner. In the second, though, he gave Sinner all kinds of trouble. Those cross-cut forehands are a lot. But what stayed with me from the second set were two points when he didn't fire the cannon. On one, he reached and hit a squash shot and got back in the point. On another, as he chased a center approach shot across the baseline, I was sure the big blast was coming. Instead, he lost at a high defensive lob.

9:35Center took a few steps back and netted the overhead. We all know what happened in the tiebreaker. What did you expect? There's a long way to go. Hodar was still a Virginia Cavalier six months ago. Sinner spent a couple hours watching Hodar live last week. Then he stayed up until 1 a.m. scouting him in his hotel room Sunday night during the fun Seca match. After beating him, Sinner said Hodar had everything that's needed to be a great player. He'd just come through a seriously stressful couple hours. I'm going to trust him. Seems like he knows some things about the game. Between the squash shot, the defensive lob, and Sinner's words, I think I've got all the signals they need.

10:13And Spain's got another rafa to get excited about. See you in Paris. The chocolate mousse awaits.

10:20Matt Roberts: That there is a reference to the chocolate mousse that they serve at La Tillule, the little restaurant around the corner from Roland Garros that we quite often frequent. In fact, last year frequented so much, or certainly Matt Futterman did, that they ran out of chocolate mousse. Matt was bringing people there on the promise of chocolate mousse. and they had run out. So very much looking forward to that in a few weeks' time. A brilliant voice note, as always. Lots of potential starting points. I actually want to start with two players who are no longer in the tournament. Let's go back to Tuesday.

11:04Matt Roberts: And Hayley Baptiste's thrilling win over overwhelming tournament favourite, Arena Sabalenka, saving six match points along the way. A Baptiste coming of age, in the words of Matt Futterman. I was at the theatre this night and look, I love Liaison Dangereuse and had a lovely time, but watching this match, it was not. And I have terrible, terrible FOMO about it. Matt, tell me everything that I missed.

11:43Catherine Whitaker: I'm afraid I'm not going to make you feel any better, Catherine. This is going to be a tough five or ten minutes for you. I'm sorry. It was one of the matches of the year. Just an absolute thriller. And honestly, I will never forget the night because I was also watching the PSG Bayern Munich Champions League game. It was happening at the same time. It was just an overwhelming, brilliant sport. I did warn you. So good. And honestly, I wouldn't have thought that after the first set because Sabalenka won it pretty easily, to be honest. And that was the third set in a row. She'd won against Baptiste, having beaten her pretty straightforwardly in the Miami quarters earlier this season.

12:28Catherine Whitaker: And I just didn't think this was going to turn into the epic that it did. But Sabalenka just opened the door a little bit at the start of the second set, I played a really loose game with some double faults and that let Baptiste in. And from that point on, Baptiste was incredible. And what I loved about it is that it was like the biggest win of her life. And yet she did it her way. You know, it kind of reminded me of when McElroy won the Masters and he did it playing his golf. He was still blowing shots over the green and missing short putts and, you know, doing all the things that make you go, oh, Rory, what have you done?

13:09Catherine Whitaker: You're so good. Why have you done that? But then he was pulling it back and coming up with these wondrous shots. And that is exactly what Baptiste kept doing. We still saw the double faults that are a bit of an issue for her. We still saw her get a little tight as she attempted to serve it out. But we also saw the magic in those hands and the talent that she possesses. And I think, you know, her coach, Will Woodall, told Ben Rothenberg that they've been talking about trying to lose even playing the right way. Because then if you lose, we've got better as a result because you've tried playing your game in the big moments.

13:48Catherine Whitaker: And I felt like that was her approach the whole match. Even if I lose this, I'm going to play my game. And nothing, nothing better demonstrated that than the way she saved those six match points. An ace to save the first one, a forehand winner to save the second, back-to-back serve volleys, including a second serve serve volley to save the third and fourths, a drop-shot lob combo from the heavens to save the fifth, and then on the sixth, Sabalenka just missed a backhand wide. but like in those biggest moments she played this bold tennis and we're used to seeing that from Sabalenka you know and you know she just couldn't get over the line because Baptiste was coming up with all the plays on those on those biggest points it was just a joy to watch and I think I think Sabalenka were back in her Indian Wells is probably still my match of the year just in terms of like because it was a final and it was the two sort of heavyweights and this sustained quality but there is something very special about this sort of genre of match and someone trying to break through and do something that you've never seen them do before because you just have this doubt in that in your mind can can she actually pull this off and then she did and she let out this incredible roar at the end to her team after a moment of looking over at them in in disbelief and yeah it was an incredible performance and i love that everyone now is is on board just what a what a fun player Hayley Baptiste is.

15:20Matt Roberts: Big moments are so important for getting hype trains moving, aren't they? I think a big problem for Joel Fonseca and his hype train has been that win he had over Andre Riblev at the Australian Open last year. If you view the hype train as kind of a negative thing and a standard against which he is judged because he kind of announced himself in that big, dramatic, sit up and take notice way rather than the kind of incremental way. It's like, OK, we expect you to be doing this now. And Hayley Baptiste, I think this is a big enough moment that she kind of now is going to find herself in that situation and did a little bit against Miran Draver in the next round in the semi-final yesterday.

16:07Matt Roberts: And she rallied at the end, David, but she didn't have anything left in the tank really for the majority of this match did she 6-4-7-6 for Andreeva and you know Baptiste had had a match like the Sabalenka one in the previous round as well against Belinda Bencic where she squandered a load of match points in the second set dug a hole in the clay as Matt Futterman was talking about she kind of choked and won anyway which is an amazing skill to have in your locker. But yeah, not a lot left in the tank against Andreva, who in her own way, David, what a wild week Mira Andreva has had.

16:54David Law: Yes, because, I mean, she had another one of her, you know, healthy leads evaporate, this one against Anna Bondar. I mean, I say healthy. It was the rudest of health. She was 5-1 up in the final set. And then she finds herself 5-6 down. And, you know, the body language coming out. She's doing the whole thing of I'm not a champion. I'm going to choke. I'm sort of, you know, she's just fallen apart, really, on the precipice of victory. It's really quite upsetting. I find it quite upsetting to watch. It was upsetting.

17:34Matt Roberts: when that's going on especially as a year ago she was giving victory speeches saying i'd like to thank me for always believing in myself yeah and that was a thing wasn't it she got a she got some bespoke merch made with with i'd like to thank me on it she's still doing it i mean she did that

17:54David Law: after winning lintz the other week you know and so like within a tournament always believing in myself I don't I mean I think I think what it shows you is just how hard it is in the in the heat of the of the battle how many players I mean Madrid is a tournament I think we'll remember for what pressure and expectation and hope and nearly being there does to you because that's what we saw with Baptiste I mean just another quick word for that racket smash I think that that could be the coolest racket smash I've ever seen. I don't say to celebrate racket smashes generally, but three smacks into the ground, but then an instantaneous breaking in half over a knee and then walking back to the chair.

18:43David Law: It was so cool. It was so quick and efficient. Anyway, but we saw what losing match points was doing to her brain, and it's what makes this sport so intoxicating. Matt mentions McElroy. this trying to get over the line when something means so much to you and andreva i think obviously it means a lot to her but i think that there's more going on there now because of the serial nature of what's of the number of times this has happened to her it's become a thing it's become an andreva thing that oh my word she's about to win oh no now she's lost a serve suddenly it feels like she could lose and you get the feeling that she thinks she can lose and yet when she when she composes herself and gets into the interviews again she's just charming and funny and lovely and she's self-deprecating and she's talking about making fun of Conchita Martinez I mean it's I I think she's great I love I I but I really do my heart aches for her when she's upset and it's hard you know um and I kind of hope that eventually she figures out she's she's been winning a bit more efficiently of late and i think she just needs to keep doing that to get used to it so that this doesn't keep happening but look she's in the final how cool is that i saw an interview with conchita martinez on sky where she said very up front we know she needs to

20:11Catherine Whitaker: change this we know that this is a problem she knows this she talked about how they've been working with a couple of different psychologists, I think. And actually, there'll be some people probably looking at this path, potential path for Andreva to the title and thinking, oh, well, she's not going to have to face any of the very big players in the world. I actually think that would make it kind of more impressive for Andreva to win this one because that is the particular issue that she's battling at the moment. when she's favoured in matches and when the pressure and expectation is on her, that's when she struggled.

20:50Catherine Whitaker: We saw her play Igor Sviontek the other week. And OK, it's not peak Igor Sviontek at the moment, but she was brilliant and she handled herself brilliantly in that match. We know she can do that. It's this that we need the proof of. Can she get over the line in these matches she's expected to win? And so far, look, it's been up and down. As you said, that Bondar match was really dicey. She was also struggling to keep her composure against Leila Fernandes in the following round. But I must say, I thought against Baptiste, she did a lot better. I think generally it was a matchup that suited her because she didn't have to be the offensive player.

21:26Catherine Whitaker: You know, she could be the counter puncture, the defender, the one who's not setting the tempo in all the rallies. And she's so good at that. And she did that brilliantly for most of the match until she came to serve it out. And then we saw those demons and she missed a smash that she should never have missed, served a double fault. And that let Baptiste back in and suddenly the match got really complicated but compelling. But I thought she kept it together really well in the tie break, Andreva, kind of emotionally, because that could have spiralled and really got out of hand for her. But she did well.

22:00Catherine Whitaker: So I'm just fascinated by this Andreva situation that we're in. And I think she's got like another one of those in the final. Because again, I think, you know, Kostiuk's playing really well. But I do think Andreeva will see herself as the favourite in that match. And, you know, she should be winning it. And yet the title's on the line. So it's going to be another test of whether she can handle those moments.

22:26Matt Roberts: Kostiuk has been so impressive, hasn't she? I mean, up until last night's semi-final against Anastasia Posipova, which was a chaotic mess of a match. She hadn't dropped a set. I mean, she'd played several of the most impressive sets of the tournament, I think, most notably against Lyndon Nozkova, beating her 7-6, 6-0. So she comes into the semi-final late last night against Potter Bova, riding high, full of confidence, playing great tennis. She wins the first set. Oh, Kostjuk's on course, you're thinking. and then an absolute aberration takes place in the second set. And I do think Anastasia Potapova is one of those players that can cause that sort of thing to happen in a tennis court.

23:10Matt Roberts: I mean, her side of the court last night was total chaos. I mean, Talon Greeks for anointing himself mental and technical coach with absolutely seemingly no qualifications or skills to back that up. Yeah, it was a wild ride of a semi-final, wasn't it? But even despite that second set, she did get a game in it in the end, didn't she, Kostiuk? She was five love down at one point. Even despite that second set, I give Kostiuk a really fighting chance in this final. David, I've been so impressed with her this week.

23:51David Law: Yeah, so do I. I think she's the best player that I've seen so far this week. And actually, she's shown me throughout this year at various points. I mean, she had that big injury gap. But before the injury gap, right at the start of the year, I remember watching her in a tournament and thinking, crikey, her ceiling is higher than I thought. And I kind of got a sense of it a little bit because of her movement last year. You know, when you see a move, there's nobody better, really. But then it's like, do you have the firepower and the consistency to make that count and take you to another level?

24:28David Law: If she puts it all together, I think she's right up there in the sort of top five or six in the world. It's just it seems to be only coming together now. So it's a fascinating final because obviously, again, it's a Ukrainian against a Russian. They are used to this now, I know. but it still can't be a non-factor I don't think I wouldn't have thought anyway but I think she's playing the better tennis of the two at the moment but she's also a very emotional player different to Andreeva she's quite explosive as Kostiuk she lets you have it if it goes wrong I think that's probably quite good for her to get it out of the system But more this...

25:18David Law: I was noticing last night when she lost that set, Catherine, you immediately said, I still think she's going to win this match, Kostiuk. I never really doubted that she was going to win that. No, because it was the other end of the court where all the drama was going on. It was Potipova. I mean, frankly, Greek spore was causing a domestic, you know, their relationship. Yeah, it was really embarrassing, wasn't it? And it was just like, you know, just stop talking to her because it doesn't look like you're helping.

25:43Matt Roberts: And it was really, I mean, yeah, the infantilising tone of it all was grim, I thought.

25:53Catherine Whitaker: I think my favourite moment was when the other coach said, you're right in this. And Potipova said, have you seen the scoreboard? And I rolled at him and gave him a sarcastic thumbs up.

26:06David Law: But Kostiuk all the time was smiling and light. You know, she wasn't catastrophizing. And I feel like I've seen that a lot from her where she's got on her own case and tails spun out of the tournament. There was one incredible rally that she won. And she really, Carlos Alcraz did. You know, she sort of walked around with, you know.

26:30Matt Roberts: Including the celebration, yeah.

26:32David Law: Yeah, you know, asking the crowd to get involved. and they did because it was such a spectacular rally showing off her full athleticism and her ability to retrieve and then turn into attack. She's a heck of a player. She's getting better. And yeah, I think I'd pick her. In the final? I think so.

26:53Matt Roberts: Matt?

26:57Matt Roberts: Matt always seems to be a famous surprise when I'm asking for a prediction.

27:03Catherine Whitaker: I think I'll go Andreva but I don't feel confident I do think they both actually are quite similar from the baseline you know in that they much prefer their backhands to their forehands you know both of those shots can go off as Kostiuk did in that second set yesterday quite dramatically I think Andreva's got the better serve I was quite impressed with the way she served against Baptiste

27:28Matt Roberts: won the first 20 points on her first serve.

27:32Catherine Whitaker: Just barely had issues there. But I do think Kostiuk's better returner than Baptiste. I think it's exactly what we've been talking about. Who handles that moment? Because they both play on the edge. And it can both run away from them quite quickly. I guess I'd just go Andrava. But I think I do agree with David that Kostiuk has impressed me more through the week. I think Andreeva at various points has been quite unconvincing, actually. But I don't know. I think it's a big moment for Kostiuk to play a final like that.

28:11Matt Roberts: Honourable mention, just before we move on for the Osaka-Savalenka match, which was another absolute thriller. Naomi Osaka came so close to beating Irina-Savalenka. and it was one of those matches. She led by a set and a break, didn't she, Naomi Osaka? It was one of those matches where if this was a young up-and-coming player, it would be, I mean, obviously heartbreaking in the moment to lose it, but nothing but positives for Osaka. It would be a I'm getting closer moment, right, you know, in the scheme of things. But we know she doesn't have that mindset, right? We know her mindset is, I can't keep taking these losses.

28:54Matt Roberts: I don't want to be out here to not be a top player and to be losing to these top players. So I worry, I don't know, I worry about how she'll take a loss like that. You know, she could do with getting one, couldn't she, David, as kind of proof that her efforts are worth it?

29:16David Law: Yes, I agree. She definitely could do with getting one. I can't imagine she wouldn't feel encouraged by this week, by the win she had to get there and then the fact that she really pushed Sabalenka compared to, say, a few weeks ago when they played each other, and she didn't. That's my hope. And it is also, you know, the surface she's less keen on compared to hardcore typically. So, yeah, I hope that this encourages her because I want to see her around. She's just still great to have about.

29:45Catherine Whitaker: and also like how bloody hard is it to beat arena sabalenka because asaka won a you know she won the tie break and that was the first time all year i think that sabalenka had lost a tie break and then they had these incredible games right at the start of the second set start of the third set where it was like several deuces and sabalenka was toughing out those games as well and then okay we do eventually see Sabalenka lose but we've talked about what it took out of Baptiste you know like she had kind of nothing left the next match and she played literally the match of her life to be able to win that by the skin of her teeth that is just like the standard that Sabalenka is setting right now I still you know I think you know typically she she wins Madrid or gets the final of Madrid so you could kind of say this is a bit of a regression but I don't know it was her first tournament on clay this season wasn't it and it still felt like she was kind of the bar

30:48Matt Roberts: to get her i don't think she's worrying about not winning madrid too much is she yeah absolutely okay that's it for part one we'll be back in part two to talk about the men and

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33:05Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast. The men in Madrid are at the semi-final stage. We have Yannick Sinner against Artifis in the first semi-final. Both of them unbeaten on clay this season. And then we have the surprise package of Alexander Blocks. More on him in a moment, taking on the two-time former Madrid champion, Alexander Zverev in the second semi-final. Let's talk Sinner and Fees. David, how big a chance do you give Art of Fees here? Both unbeaten on clay, tantalising.

33:42David Law: Yeah, I mean, look, I think Sinner is the heavy favourites. Obviously, he will be on paper, and I do think he is. I think he does things that could unsettle Feast. It'll be very interesting to see that in this current year, you know, with, as you say, Feast playing his best stuff, but also Sinner being another level altogether to when they played each other previously.

34:09Matt Roberts: What are the things he does that will unsettle him?

34:12David Law: He'll get him off balance. Not that Feast isn't a good enough athlete to deal with that. I think it's more just, you know, he does usually, he's used to settling into a back-end cross-court exchange and then trying to get his forehand going and dominating with that. Sinner just doesn't give players chance to do that. You know, we saw it in the Rafael Hodder match. You know, the power that Hodder has was difficult to invoke because he's not got his feet under him against Yannick Sinner. because Sinner's so often going down the line, both forehand and backhand, and he's got a great drop shot. He's become, do you know, there was a moment in the Sinner match the other day when I think Matt referenced Carlos Alkraus.

34:58David Law: I think the two of you were talking about that. He's doing Carlos Alkraus things. He was.

35:03Matt Roberts: It was the drop shot followed by the backhand, the improbable angled backhand.

35:13Catherine Whitaker: Which was to save a great point. To save a great point.

35:16Matt Roberts: Absolutely. Yeah.

35:17David Law: It was almost indulgently brilliant because, you know, there are probably other ways he could have hit that shot. And he went for the touch backhand and there was the volley knifed backhand cross court that hits the line. It's just unreal touch that he has. Do you know the person that he reminds me of more is Novak Djokovic? because Djokovic, I think, is more like him anyway in terms of his fundamental game. And Djokovic developed all of these other layers, these other skills on top and became this master craftsman around the court. His understanding of the geometry of the court is pretty much unmatched to my mind, Novak Djokovic is.

36:02David Law: And I think that Sinner is developing this and becoming more and more difficult to beat. Which is fascinating, isn't it?

36:11Matt Roberts: Because one of the old adages of tennis is you can't really learn touch. Okay, you can learn angles and geometry and stuff, but Yannick Sinner's touch has improved. I remember seeing him play Daniel Medvedev in Miami a couple of years ago. back in the, it was at the tail end of Yannick Senna being unable to beat Daniel Medvedev. Remember those days? It wasn't that long ago. And I was there for this. It was my, one of my last tournaments for Amazon. And, you know, Daniel Medvedev was 400 metres behind the baseline. Yannick Senna was like, seems like a good idea to drop shot him, which it is a good idea to drop shot Daniel Medvedev.

36:53Matt Roberts: His drop shots were crap. He just didn't have the touch for them. And, OK, he's not Carlos Alcaraz, but that's the highest possible bar. His touch is really good. It's so impressive what he's done.

37:15David Law: There are actually drills that we're seeing of him practising his drop shots. And I wonder whether ahead of that Daniel Medvedev match all those years ago, whether his practicing of that drop shot ahead of Medvedev was consigned to one day. Whereas we know since the US Open last year, he said, no, no, this is my new thing. I'm going to be trying to work on this.

37:39Matt Roberts: I'm prepared to take the losses to make the games in the long term. And he hasn't taken those.

37:45David Law: No, it's incredible, isn't it? I mean, in his own way, Zverev said the same about trying to impose a game. You know, he said, I'm prepared to lose some matches to try to get a level that I've not had before. And I respect that. I think that's a great way to go. It can derail some players who maybe aren't good enough or aren't trusting enough in the moment. With Art of Feast, what he has is a puncher's chance. And what he needs to do is be able to settle. If he can settle and feel like he can win service games and get his timing because Sinner, the reason I think Sinner has so many lopsided scorelines, I mean, like, he beats people so often really easily because the moment they get on the court, he owns the thing.

38:37David Law: He's directing the play and they are just off balance and not able to do all the things they're good at. And he may do that to Feiss. But I've seen Feiss settle in a few matches the last few weeks, like against Lorenzo Mazzetti and the bad ones have come against probably inferior players who he just hasn't really settled against. Once he settles, his game is so heavy and destructive and his aura is so kind of cocky in a positive way that I actually think he could do some damage against Sinner. He could do some. I think he will.

39:15Matt Roberts: With Akra's gone, he's number one for aura in men's tennis. Yeah.

39:21David Law: One of these days he will beat Sinner or Al Krause or both on clay. I believe that. I'm not sure it's yet. But bloody impressive, isn't it? The guy has been back since February. He's played, what, eight or nine tournaments and he hasn't gone out before the quarterfinals. He's fourth in the race right now. And he didn't even play the Australian Open.

39:46Matt Roberts: He prayed for times like these.

39:47David Law: he didn't even play the Australian Open the year's only Grandstand tournament and he's fourth in the race

39:58Matt Roberts: just cycling back to Sina Hoda just for a minute did well Hoda didn't he to make it as competitive as it was in that second set and it really was competitive Sina was having to pull some rabbits out of hats to win pressure points eventually won it on a tiebreaker like a lopsided 7-0 tiebreak, a match that, in my opinion, was almost completely ruined by the roof being closed for it. Sorry to be a damp squib. That was a bad decision. It was, it's a disgrace. It was sunny outside. They hurt Hodder with that. Yeah, they hurt Hodder, they hurt, I mean, look, it was still a great Atmos because it's that match, but closing roofs because of risk of possible rain

40:46David Law: is an absolute nonsense.

40:50Matt Roberts: On clay in particular, but on anything really. These roofs close so quickly. Yeah, on clay it is, I can't think of a single defence of it really. It's a disgrace. And yeah, obviously it impacts my enjoyment in particular because I hate indoor tennis so much and I hate indoor clay. I'm glad we have the roofs for when it is raining. but it's not a pleasant roof in Madrid. You know, it's not one that lets any natural light in. It's a very imposing, as you can imagine, the Caja Magica. No matter what Matt Futterman tries to tell you about its architectural beauty, it is a monstrosity, folks. Bless you, Matt.

41:31Matt Roberts: I knew he was going to have a pro-magic box agenda. I did enjoy his take-through. It's horrible. Horrible. And obviously that's me being an architectural, you know, non-appreciator of art, apparently. But it's horrible and it's purpose built. That, I think, is what riles me so much about the Kaha Magikos. They could have built anything. It was purpose built from scratch a few years ago. They could have done anything and they did that. anyway back to holdar sinner wrote um in his message on the camera after the match what a player which is very clever because it's ingratiating yourself with the the spanish crowd paying a huge compliment to rafael holdar he's also paying himself a compliment isn't he very federer-esque like what a player i've just beaten you in straight sets well done both of us

42:27David Law: are we definitely sure he wasn't referring to himself as what a player

42:35David Law: no he wasn't doing that folks just to be clear but that would be really baller i'd love that

42:42Catherine Whitaker: i know we've talked about it but it's funny like i go into that match thinking oh i'm i feel i'm going to come out of this mostly thinking about holla right i know about yannick sinner i'm interested in what Hodder's going to bring here and yet I came out of it I was impressed with Hodder, I think he did really well, he handled the occasion he pushed Sinner in a way but it's like the story, it's like it's what men's tennis is doing at the moment you think about someone else and then you end up thinking, oh how good are Sinner and Alcaraz because that passage of play from Sinner he was 3-4, 15-40 down and he barely missed a ball for the rest of the match it was just an absolute clinic you know and like a perfect like free demonstration for Hodder about everything that he can work on and improve in order to get to that level as we said Sinner's touch his drop shots he's hitting at the end of his range I think that's one of the things that Matt Futterman was hinting at there you know with Hodder when he gets on the run okay he might make a winner but he might also like blast it long Sinner is so good and this is a Djokovic's trait I think Sinner's maybe even better at it being stretched out wide on either wing and still managing to hit with great pace on his shots it's remarkable how he does that depth to suffocate Holar and then just generally like the very just cold ability to just bring it under pressure you know like it's all very well being able to play good points all these people can play good points Sinner can do it when he needs to do it and he's done it time and time again And yeah, I think Matt Futterman's report wrote they hit one unforced error on the back end all match.

44:26Catherine Whitaker: And he switched up his return position right at the end of the match, became a bit more aggressive, crowded the baseline, put some doubt in Hodder's mind. It was remarkable how Sinner turned it on. And that's what makes it so tantalizing today against Feast, because I agree with David. I think Feast is going to bring it. I think he's going to worry him and he's going to shake him. I think that power is enough to hurt anyone. But then I'm also just waiting for what Sinner does in response to that. And that is kind of exciting as well.

45:01Matt Roberts: Seeing as Alcaraz has got a couple of mentions, we all saw the absolutely adorable footage of him going out with his family to watch his younger brother Jaime in the junior tournament that they have in Madrid. Greeted his parents like he hadn't seen them in months. we know they all live together I fancy seeing you here it was adorable and of course he's got his big quite cumbersome wrist support on which looks alarming but of course it's to just immobilise the joint isn't it and to give it just total rest but he's got this sort of limp modified clap that he was doing for Jaime and he couldn't help himself from fist pumping He sort of instinctively was fist pumping for his younger brother.

45:49Matt Roberts: But you could see him sort of remember like, oh, I can't I can't really do that. Yeah, it was it was all incredibly sweet. Let's talk about the other semifinal. Alexander Blocks against Alexander Zverev. Matt, tell us about your guy.

46:10Catherine Whitaker: Well, what a run he's had. He's beaten Orjali Asim, Francisco Sarundolo and Kasparud, the defending champion, all of them in straight sets. And that's three top 20 wins in a row right there. Kind of, I first saw, I think, Bloch's play in person, actually. It was only a practice session. It was at the Davis Cup last year when he was there for Belgium in Bologna. And he wasn't picked to play the singles. You know, it was Collignon and Burks who played the singles. But blocks kind of caught my eye. It's kind of my failing, I think, as a tennis analyst, potentially, that I just always come away with an outsized impression of how good someone is, having seen them play in person.

46:56Catherine Whitaker: Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm never not impressed by the way these guys hit the ball and move. You know, it's why we ended up with the best player in the world bit for Thomas Mahatch, isn't it? Like, you can just get lulled in. And I watched Blocks and I just thought, bloody hell, he's a big guy, he's like six foot four, and he just hits such a clean, big ball. So I just thought, OK, he's kind of one to watch next year. And he obviously played the next-gen finals. And he had a pretty good season. There was a reason he was on that Belgium-Davis Cup squad. But frankly, this little run he's put together on the clay has really just catapulted him to a new level.

47:36Catherine Whitaker: You know, he's basically next to Hollar now in the live rankings. He's right there with him in terms of, you know, 30-ish in the world with this run in Madrid. And he'd also qualified in Monte Carlo. He beat Caballi in Monte Carlo, got to the last 16 there, won a match in Munich. And this is all happening on clay, where you wouldn't necessarily have thought that was his preferred surface. I think a lot of his junior good results are on hardcore, are indoors. And that makes sense to me. He's got this massive serve, absolutely enormous serve and a huge forehand as well. But what's impressed me actually is the blend of his game.

48:13Catherine Whitaker: You know, I think he's prepared to rally when he needs to rally. He's pretty solid off both sides. His backhand is not really a weapon, but he's prepared to use it to kind of go toe to toe from the baseline.

48:26Matt Roberts: He's very disconcerting for opponents, isn't he? They don't know what's coming off his racket from the back of the court.

48:35Catherine Whitaker: And he's also got some decent touch. There was a moment early on against Kasparud where he chased down a drop shot and responded with a counter drop shot as he slid into it and just had the softest hands to be able to just kill it. And I just thought, wow, OK, that's real skill as well as big power. And then he was pretty nerveless down the stretch. Like, OK, he had a couple of match points that Rude saved really well. So then he had to serve it out against Rude. And he came forward. He had a dry volley, had a huge inside-out forehand. He just stepped up in that moment as well. And in his interview afterwards on Sky, he was saying, no, I don't think I'm better than these guys.

49:16Catherine Whitaker: I don't sort of have this outsized belief in myself, but I totally think I'm there with them and I belong. And it kind of came across like there's a sort of quiet, confidence to him, I suppose. And yeah, this run through the clay has put him on the cusp of being seeded at the French Open in a few weeks' time. We need all these fun players to not get seeded

49:41Matt Roberts: for the sake of orangery fun. Yeah, just, you can get to like 40 in the world, but just put the brakes on for the sake of orangery fun, please.

49:52Catherine Whitaker: And I do think, to Matt Futterman's point, Madrid is this slight outlier event I think that's a good way of looking at it as well in terms of like you know then we get into Rome and suddenly it's serious and this is totally French Open prep but Madrid is a bit different and the conditions are different and I know that I know that Baptiste has generally like she's been on the rise and has had a steady consistent rise over the last few years and especially this year but it's not a shock to me that like her best tennis gets played in Madrid you know I think it helps the serve I think it helps the forehand and I think similarly with blocks as well you know these are conditions which are good for him so I'm kind of coming out of this thinking yes absolutely excited about Baptiste and blocks I'm not not trying to knock their achievements or anything but I think if we're trying to be sensible and sensible analysts as well you have to think about where they're playing and how helped are they by the conditions And I do think those game styles just seem like they fit Madrid really well for both of them.

50:54Catherine Whitaker: Much like Zverev. I definitely think that's the case for Blocks.

50:56Matt Roberts: Not that he doesn't have success elsewhere on clay as well, lots of it. But Madrid is just a dream for Alexander Zverev, I think, isn't it? And he has been impressive, particularly last night against Caballi, who was disappointing. It continues to be a roller coaster being a Caballi guy. um blocks incidentally if you're thinking where do i recognize that name from um it's interesting seeing him sort of emerge at the same time as hodar because hodar obviously went the u.s college route he um has been studying and playing for virginia i think university um so he's kind of been in in incubation and emerged as this butterfly from a chrysalis whereas blocks we knew about from juniors.

51:42Matt Roberts: He went the playing lots of juniors route. He was junior number one. He won the Australian Open juniors in 2023, beating Lerner Tien in the final. And he was runner up in the doubles that year, partnering Joel Fonseca. So that tells you what vintage he is and what cohort he's a part of. And he does seem to have that slow heartbeat thing, David, that you often talk about. Never too high, never too low. Takes things in his stride. So look, Zverev, heavy favourite, but who knows?

52:19David Law: Yeah, I would have thought so. I mean, it's actually that... Zverev is a really fascinating story the next few weeks because he uses his experience very well against these sort of players because he knows how to get over the line and outlast them and make them choke, make them miss. Blocks just, I mean, I had been struggling to get a handle on what type of player he was because I saw the Auger Liasse match and he hit six forehand winners to Auger Liasse's 13 and yet you beat him in straight sets and he's supposed to have a big forehand. So what sort of player is he? So very interesting to hear your dissection of his game.

53:02David Law: I'm entertained by the matter-of-factness of his answers in interviews. And there was an actually interesting story I saw on social media, an interview with, I think, a Belgian TV station talking about asking him about splitting from his coach of 16 years, Philippe Cassier. And it was really funny the way he just sort of said, look, I can't talk about that. But I can confirm it's true.

53:32David Law: So you're not going to talk about it, But you are going to absolutely confirm the story. Don't know the reason for it, I think, is what he's getting at.

53:39Matt Roberts: It's half-seen for Philippe Cassier for him to have split from and immediately had this total breakout run of form. Or maybe it's all down to Philippe Cassier's work. That's a bit Ferraro and Alcaraz going and completing the career slam, isn't it?

53:55David Law: It is one of the hard things of coaching. I don't know the circumstances of this one, But very often you'll see formative coaches doing an incredible job and then kind of not getting to live off the glory at the end. But anyway, he's a nice addition to the mix, isn't he?

54:14Catherine Whitaker: He's got Ruben Bemelmans in his box now, who I think is coaching him a little bit.

54:23Matt Roberts: I feel like we should have an honourable mention for Kasparud and Stefanos Tsitsipas. and their backhand-avoiding, drama-fuelled final set tie-break of a match. Sitsapas had two match points, I think. Just an utterly heartbreaking defeat for him to defending champion Kasparud, who went on to lose to blocks in the following match. I mean, I suppose it's positives and negatives to Sitsapas, isn't it? This week has been some of the best tennis we've seen from him in a long time, But also a loss like that is going to bloody hurt. And these tournaments are opportunities for him, you know, big opportunities and ones that, frankly, if he still has the aspirations that he once had of achieving things in the sport, opportunities that he needs to take advantage of.

55:19Matt Roberts: and look it was an absolutely thrilling watch but it was tough from a Sitsapas perspective at the end. I think we were all watching this in various different ways. Matt I know you were watching this.

55:34Catherine Whitaker: Yes we were playing our hold or break game with the athletic group chat which is kind of what we do when there's a big game and we're all watching it. Do we think they're going to serve this out or not? I had too much faith in Tsitsipas I thought he was going to serve it out and look he's had a we've talked a lot about Tsitsipas he had a strange year because he's had some good performances in there and he's beaten Fritz, Medvedev, Dimonor, Bublik these are all pretty good wins and he was so close to beating Kasparud in some of his favourite conditions there as the defending champion in Madrid and yet I agree Catherine like you know the clay court season's running running out you know like we're almost at Roland Garros and this is his time of year where you thought okay maybe he might still be able to get something together on the clay because his game does still you know kind of suit that that surface it wouldn't wouldn't shock me if he schedules differently this year and maybe plays some of those clay court events after after Wimbledon like that might be a smart move like he needs to get his ranking going in the right direction and clay does feel like the casparude swing it does feel like his best shot at that um i mean he was talking afterwards about like feeling like himself again on the court and i think generally it kind of was a a positive week he did look better his game looked better looked look more damaging you know i think we talk a lot about to surpass his weaknesses and the areas he hasn't improved and i think we're right to do that but the other thing as well is that he doesn't hurt players as much as he used to his strengths are maybe not quite as effective as they used to be we used to talk about him having one of the best forehands in the world it was devastating when was the last time you would have thought that?

57:21Catherine Whitaker: It feels like that shot has maybe regressed a little bit but he was doing a bit more damage there were some good signs if you're trying to clutch and see them but yeah, it's still a tough scene for him.

57:36Matt Roberts: Did you see the footage that came out on social media of him on the practice court with both his parents? No, we haven't seen that, but I feel like I've seen it before. Yeah, we know it, we've seen it, but somehow it's still quite shocking and I just feel so sorry for him. His dad's on the baseline with him, he's serving, I think, and then his mum steps in to try and give some advice and then his dad tells his mum to pipe down and that it's it's just grim it's i mean you just don't stand a chance with that going on i mean in the context of that the fact that he's in the world's top 100 is pretty damn impressive to be honest um so yeah we wish him well and he still came and did a one-on-one with matt futterman after that defeat um so good on him funny enough just watching him

58:29David Law: I got the same feeling watching him as he describes it was like watching Stefanos Tsitsipas some of the time this week and I missed that because I love watching him when he's playing well and listen I think it's going to take a long time if he's going to come back to kind of get over the demons of how to win you know how to win the big matches that he used to do without too much trouble but look you've you've just got to do it step by step you've got to just try to feel like yourself again

59:06Matt Roberts: okay that is it for part two we will be back in part three with some bits and bobs of news away from madrid including that emma raducanu coaching exclusive or what we think is an exclusive maybe hopefully AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the Fortune 500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most.

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1:00:20Life's the trip. Make the most of it at Best Western. Book direct and save at bestwestern.com

1:00:31Matt Roberts: Welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast. Some news you might have seen by now, and it was being rumoured for a few days, but it is now confirmed Jack Draper is out of the remainder of the clay court season, including, of course, Roland Garros, and that means that his ranking will drop outside of the world's top 100. He said in a social media post, my knee is on the mend and I've started back hitting balls, but unfortunately I've been advised not to play Roland Garros. As gutting as it is to miss another slam, the advice is not to rush straight back into playing five-set tennis on clay.

1:01:10Matt Roberts: Off the back of the arm, injury I sustained last year. I've been restricted with my training and by giving myself the time to heal and build, I can be the player I want to be out there once again. See you soon. It's it's it's a relief that he's being so cautious with these injuries, in spite of what I imagine is an absolute desperation to get back out on the tour properly. But the Jet Draper mood music is is out of tune at the moment, isn't it? It's a tough situation. He's lucky, I think, that the Wimbledon cutoff is as early as it is. He should get into Wimbledon, but I don't think he's going to get into...

1:01:56Matt Roberts: I think he's going to need a wildcard or have to play qualies at the US Open because of when the cutoff for that is, unless he wins Wimbledon or something. Yeah, US Open wildcards, I think, are going to be interesting because we've got a lot of retiring players that are going to be asking for them, I think. Potentially one of them, Kena Shikori, former finalist, of course, at the US Open. He's announced that this will be his final season, saying, I still wish I could continue my career, which is pretty heartbreaking, to be honest. So the US Open will be his final Grand Slam, as it will be for Stan Rynka.

1:02:37Matt Roberts: I imagine Grigor Dimitrov's going to... He's needing wild cards to get into Grand Slam main draws, isn't he? Or else he'll have to play qualifying. Interesting wild card situation emerging over the course of the summer, I would think.

1:02:54Catherine Whitaker: Don't give any of them wild cards, is what Catherine's really thinking. Get them in qualies. Get rid of the wild cards. Yeah, get them in qualies, yeah.

1:03:03Matt Roberts: Well, look, if we're going to have wild cards, I'm happy for all of those people to get them. But I don't, the thought of some being left out is not great. Bianca Andreescu didn't get one last year. Just throw that out there. Anastasia Sevastova, who also had some great results at the US Open, didn't she? I really associate her with that Grand Slam in particular. She has announced her retirement again. She first retired back in 2013, but she came back, reached the quarterfinals of the US Open in 2016 and 2017. And then the semifinals in 2018. Career high ranking of 11, one of those really underrated tennis players, I think, and had some incredible peaks.

1:03:56Matt Roberts: So we wish Anastasia Sevastova a happy retirement. And finally, in our news section, we have been contacted by a tennis podcast listener who tells us that they have seen Emma Raducanu training with Andrew Richardson, the coach with whom she won the US Open in 2021. David, tell us more.

1:04:28David Law: yes um this very much came out of the blue and into my email inbox um we were told where this took place where where she was seen practicing with andrew richardson in spain and that information does tally with where we understand richardson has been based for a few years now basically since he finished working with Emma Raducanu, coaching his son in recent years as the head coach there. Look, we haven't had this information confirmed. And also, even if it is confirmed, we don't know whether it's actually a meaningful development, other than they may just be practicing together for a bit. Don't know.

1:05:14David Law: I did put it to Raducanu's representative a couple of times in messages over the last week. just to ask if it was accurate and for any comments on it. And I have not received a response to those messages, despite them seemingly having been read. Now, most of the time, I do get a response from that particular agent. So whether you can read anything into that, who can say? That's all we can say really, right now, because we haven't been able to get any more on it. but it certainly hasn't been shot down either. So it's one to keep an eye out for, not only because Raducano's, I mean, she's always an interesting talking point on a coaching level because she's had so many of them since she won that US Open with Andrew Richardson.

1:06:02David Law: He was there by her side when she won it as a qualifier. He actually did an interview. I mean, their relationship ended basically a couple of weeks after he won, he was by her side when she won that tournament. and he did an interview with our late and much missed colleague Mike Dixon in the Daily Mail back in 2023 did Andrew Richardson and he said at the time that he'd hoped to continue working with her after that US Open win and they'd begun negotiations and then he received a call from her agent the following week to say that she wanted to go in a different direction so he then embarked on a new career basically as a head coach at this club.

1:06:44David Law: And obviously his son's a promising junior too. And he was coaching him. But because of their history, because she hasn't been able to reproduce that success, despite having a lot of coaches and obviously a lot of injuries as well, it's inevitably an interesting development if indeed they have been training together.

1:07:09Matt Roberts: so we watch this space with interest especially in light of what she has told us and made very clear that she wants to get back to playing how she played as an 18 year old when she she won the US Open obviously you know she wants to get back to those results but she wants to get back to that style of playing which she'd really really drifted from um most notably with um with Francisco Roy week so it's really fascinating I love it when players get back together with ex-coaches going back to your ex is a is is one of life's risky and fascinating experiments so we will we will watch that situation closely in terms of us we of course will be back with our next show to wrap up Madrid, talk about the finals, talk about everything that is going to unfold over the next three days.

1:08:10Matt Roberts: And that show will be live on Sunday night at 8pm UK time. Or if the men's final is a thrilling four-hour epic, then the final that our show will be whenever that final finishes. But it is planned for 8pm UK time. That'll be live on YouTube. We will send out the link in our newsletter. We will pop it on our Instagram or you can just follow our YouTube channel and then you never have to miss anything if you want to join our shows live. It'll be up shortly after as a podcast as well, of course. We also have a friend show next week on Wednesday night. That is a Q &A show, 6th of May, 8pm UK time, live on YouTube as always and up as a podcast.

1:08:56Matt Roberts: So if you want to join us for that, then the link to become a friend is in our show notes. And I didn't write this. I assume this was either Matt or David. But the agenda says, go and have a watch of Catherine's quiz on Instagram. Is that because you won the quiz, David?

1:09:13David Law: Well, I mean, it's definitely contributes, yeah. If you want to see some very unexpected David winning a quiz content,

1:09:23Matt Roberts: then our Instagram is the place to go, folks.

1:09:26David Law: Especially given the content of that particular quiz.

1:09:30Matt Roberts: If you're feeling down about AI and the evils therein. And look, I'm not saying this content cancels out all of those evils, but it might make you feel a bit better about the upsides of AI. Is that enough of a tease? That's pretty good.

1:09:50David Law: I mean, it's no surprise that I've come up with it after the one that I won, having not won the previous two. Matt?

1:09:56Catherine Whitaker: I don't know where this idea has come from that David is not good at tennis quizzes. Like David knows more about tennis. That idea has not come from me.

1:10:05Matt Roberts: I just wasn't expecting him to be good at this tennis quiz.

1:10:08Catherine Whitaker: The world. But David loves the drama really and lived through the 90s and all the tennis celebrity breakups. David loves it. David lives for tennis. like David's good at quizzes

1:10:28Matt Roberts: I did I waited it towards the 90s

1:10:31David Law: just for you David I thought that I did think there's a couple of things going on here that Matt just wasn't alive for and I feel like this is being skewed in my favour and I'm all for it yeah

1:10:43Matt Roberts: well you know we have not one but two mascots for this episode introducing Archer and Dot who are owned by Greg and Beth And this mascot-dom is a gift for her brother and sister-in-law from Greg's sister, Rachel. So it's a gift from Rachel to Greg and Beth. Is that right, Matt? Is that how you've interpreted that? Yes. And Archer and Dot are Greg and Beth's dogs. Archer is a red doodle and Dot is the party doodle. I don't understand that but I'm obsessed with it. Archer was the OG pre-Greg. So before Greg came along it was just Beth and Archer. And they welcomed the crazy, energetic and lovable Dot to the family a few years later.

1:11:44Matt Roberts: Archer and Dot commute between Boulder, Colorado where their dad works part-time and Colorado Springs where their mum works and lives. They love tennis balls, all balls for that matter, and are avid fans of the tennis podcast and tennis in general. Both are a joy and they love their aunt Rachel. And I'm looking at a picture of them here where they're snuggled up on the couch, a very comfortable looking couch, by the way. And they are nuzzled forehead to forehead. And I could I could weep at the beauty of this photo. So that is a lovely thing, Rachel, for you to have done for Greg and for Beth.

1:12:21Matt Roberts: and for Archer and for Dot. And I'm going to be Googling Red Doodle and Party Doodle immediately after this. Hello to our mascots, Bodie, Maisie and Roger. Hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Geoff. Matt, let's have some shout outs.

1:12:44Catherine Whitaker: We have Stefan Kapolak from Seattle, home of the Seahawks Stefan Wright yeah

1:12:52Matt Roberts: great and if you're watching us on YouTube Stefan you'll see that David is appropriately dressed for your shout out I mean David is always wearing an item of Seahawks so I could have a different

1:13:05David Law: outfit every day of the week with Seahawks

1:13:08Matt Roberts: he's got his he's got his neck pillow for the it's not just clothes is it David you've got accessories too

1:13:15David Law: no no no

1:13:16Matt Roberts: you've got the whole shop for life

1:13:18Catherine Whitaker: I've rescued that neck pillow before

1:13:24Matt Roberts: what do we know about Stefan? very good tennis name

1:13:29Catherine Whitaker: Stefan would like to dedicate this shout out to my bestie John he says who's a new tennis podcast friend and a lifelong friend of Stefan Stefan says he always beats me in tennis but I love it every time

1:13:44Matt Roberts: Stefan consider it done and hello John welcome to the party Cheers Stefan

1:13:50Catherine Whitaker: Hi John We also have Jim Session from Melbourne Hello Jim Hi Jim Jim says Fulham fan here So a question for Matt Is Harry Wilson's left foot the closest football comparison to the Anissimova backhand? It's a great question I think I think we're too biased in favour of Fulham Jim you know when like next season when Harry Wilson scoring those left footed goals for Aston Villa having left on a free probably not going to be so into them you know but the fact he does them for Fulham they do give me similar similar feelings of joy yes I see where you're coming from Jim like

1:14:40Matt Roberts: Jim Parsons our listener Jim Currier Jim Currier but yeah hi Jim Parsons our listener Jim Currier who started the rumour about the shrimp yeah thank you Jim and finally we have heather day hello heather all right heather heather says last spring i

1:15:14Catherine Whitaker: shared with the pod my overwhelming delight at getting to see my beloved carlos alcaraz at roland garros which was the first match i had ever seen live this year i went to indian wells for two days with two tennis friends from seattle tennis especially through your pod brings me joy and I would not be going on these trips if it were not for you thank you Catherine David and Matt that's lovely from Heather that's so nice thank you Heather that is extremely lovely

1:15:46Matt Roberts: and I'm sure Heather got this last time but Heather Watson yeah

1:15:55Matt Roberts: Heather Jim John and Stefan thank you ever so much for your support of the tennis podcast if you'd like to become a friend the link is in our show notes uh we're part of the athletic podcast network we will be back on sunday evening with our next pod so thank you for listening we will see you and speak to you then

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