Madrid - What do Sinner & Kostyuk's titles mean for the French Open mix?

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1:26Matt Roberts: hello and welcome to the tennis podcast we are live tonight so hello to everyone that's with us on youtube do join in with the chat if you fancy it it's already pretty lively in there hannah is stewarding things masterfully of course and also do subscribe to our channel while you're here as well uh david law is here how are you doing this fine sunday david i i'm all right yeah i'm

1:56David Law: very well thank you um i don't know i just just enjoying this part of the year knowing that ron and garras is on the horizon and i get to go again and just just love it um and it's spring and things wrapped up very quickly today. So I've had a couple of extra hours to call my own. So yeah, all good.

2:17Matt Roberts: Tennis' loss is David Law's gain, folks. Matt Roberts, it is your party. You can cry if you want to. Happy belated birthday for yesterday. Please, could you tell me who out of Alexander Zverev and Fulham FC you would give a greater performance rating for the weekend?

2:40Catherine Whitaker: Oh, what a brutal opening question for me.

2:44Matt Roberts: I put it in the agenda, Matt. You could have seen it coming. Yeah, you could have been prepared for this.

2:54Catherine Whitaker: Gosh, I really don't know the answer to that. They were both abysmal.

2:59Matt Roberts: Fulham really were bad yesterday.

3:02Catherine Whitaker: Oh, so bad. I'm not even sure we were trying.

3:06Matt Roberts: Right, potentially applies to both competitors. Before we get into that, a very big hello. Joining us from the Jersey Shore tonight, having just stepped off a plane home from Madrid and the Caja Magica that you are intent to gaslight me is a work of architectural genius. It is the Athletics' Matt Futterman. Hello, Matt. Hello, how are you? Greetings from the Jersey. Good, thank you, Matt. Matt, thank you for asking. The boys never ask. I ask them. I was going to say, how are you today, Catherine? I ask them, they don't ask me. There's a gentleman, folks. You had a nice weekend. I've had a lovely...

3:43Matt Roberts: Well, it's been all right. Yeah, it's been fine. There we are. Thanks, David. Matt. Matt Futterman, how are you? I'm doing great. Happy to be home. Flew home yesterday. Been a good... About 24 hours. Sun is shining. and, you know, we've got, what, about two and a half weeks and be back on the other side of the Atlantic for more clay court tennis. And more chocolate mousse. Yeah, if you're on the live chat and you're playing a drinking game, I suggest you drink every time Matt mentions the chocolate mousse or any of us mention the chocolate mousse in Roland Garros, quite frankly. Let's get into it then.

4:29Matt Roberts: All 57 minutes of it, folks. The men's title in Madrid was won a couple of hours ago by Yannick Sinner. 6-1, 6-2 over Alexander Zverev. The victory for Sinner makes him the first man to win five Masters 1000 events in a row. Although it is a little bit of a technicality because Novak Djokovic did do that. He just skipped one in the run of five. So it wasn't five events happening sequentially, but it was five events that Novak Djokovic participated in sequentially. So I'm not taking away from Yannick Sinner doing something that only Novak Djokovic has done is an incredible achievement. But it does feel like a slight sort of asterisk-y record for him to hold single-handedly.

5:20Matt Roberts: And the final result makes it nine wins in a row for Sinner against Alexander Zverev, who will be the second seed and theoretically Yannick Sinner's biggest threat to the Roland Garros title. Who would like the hot potato of doing the match summary here? Who can make it sound moderately fun? Matt Roberts, I back you.

5:50David Law: Sure, yeah. Definitely skipped on from me there.

5:53Matt Roberts: You weren't looking enthusiastic, David.

5:58David Law: Mine was going to be a four-word report. Oh, okay.

6:01Matt Roberts: We've got to hear that now.

6:02David Law: Yeah, let's hear that, David. Sin at awesome. Zvair of crap. Matt.

6:10Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, I mean, I can put a bit of meat on that bone if you want, but David's pretty much said it. I mean, like, the thing is, when you've lost eight times in a row to someone, as Zverev had already going into this, we knew this was already a match-up problem. I mean, you've got to just get off to a good start, really, haven't you, to try and build some belief in the match. And Zverev got broken straight away, went down a break, and his head just seemed to slump immediately. I was struck by how quickly he lost belief in this. It was almost as though he stepped on the court with none, to be honest.

6:48Catherine Whitaker: And I think that probably tells you about Yannick Sinner's dominance of the tour right now. I don't think there are many guys stepping on court with belief against him. And certainly Zverev having taken all those defeats recently. And the last thing you can do, again, to go back to Fulham yesterday, we went 1-0 down in the first 10 minutes. We at least needed to keep it 1-0 and keep it close. was Zverev went to break down and he needed to keep it at one break. He went down a double break with just the worst game you could possibly play with a couple of very easy putaways at the net that he missed.

7:23Catherine Whitaker: And that was enough for the double break. And from that point on, it was just a total mismatch. Myles McLaggen on the commentary on Sky Sports was talking about Sinner being in Zverev's head and it felt like that. But also, you know, we have to absolutely say say that Sinner is just playing at an incredibly high level right now as well and as bad as Zverev was to David's point Sinner was awesome I mean hitting his spots on on the serve in a way that Zverev wasn't really Zverev's serve wasn't as effective as it often is Sinner's was unbelievable power from both wings the the willingness to pull the trigger down the line mixing in the occasional drop shot as well.

8:08Catherine Whitaker: Like he was just in total control of his game and in control of the match. And yeah, it was as one-sided as a match between two top players kind of possibly can be really.

8:23Matt Roberts: Yeah, and look, there being a gap between Yannick Sinner and ordinarily Carlos Alcaraz in there as well, but obviously he's out of the equation at the moment. There being a gap there between them and the rest is not news. And yet still it feels like every time the true extent of that gap gets exposed, it makes me it makes me wince, quite frankly. I mean, how do you how do you account Matt, other Matt, Matt that politely asked me how I am? That's that's how I'm going to refer to you from now on, Matt Futterman. um how do you were talking when we were sound checking just a few minutes ago about how how impressed you were with Zverev a couple of nights ago in Alexander Blocks now obviously a completely different level of opposition and that matters that matters probably more than any other factor but it was a completely different Alexander Zverev like his whole posture was different just walking onto the court trudging around at the back of the court like everything about him was different two nights ago to today, not just the opponent.

9:30Matt Roberts: How do you account for that? Well, watching him for a time today, it was the first time I thought, like, is his back hurting again? Because he looked really stiff on a couple of shots. And so that was one thought. And I guess, you know, I mean, David said the four-word summary. And the question is, like, how much responsibility does Sinner get for Zverev's level of crap? And I think a lot, not only physically, but also psychologically. And I just go back to what Arthur Fee said after their semifinal, which was, you know, it wasn't the first time a tennis player has said this about another tennis player and especially about Sinner.

10:21But it's just that idea. He said something like, you know, he makes you feel like you need to be perfect. And, you know, if you walk onto a tennis court thinking you're going to have to be perfect, you know, you're fucked because you can't be perfect. And that's sort of the initial problem. And then from there, just, you know, his ability is just astounding. And the aggression at the start of his matches, the last, you know, one, two, three matches. Yeah, I mean, just the way he was just jumping at the end of his quarterfinal match when he was just absolutely jumping on the serves when he was playing Hodar.

11:12And then he started off again Feast doing the exact same thing. And it was like, oh, man, he's not going to be able to breathe. And surely Zverev was watching that and saw how he was doing it. And he came out thinking, I've got to nail every serve or I'm really in trouble. And when he didn't, the shoulder's slump.

11:35Matt Roberts: Yeah, it's Djokovic-ian, isn't it, from Sinner in terms of the way he changes the parameters of what an unforced error is because of how he scrambles the mind of the opponent. I mean, it was totally encapsulated by a couple of points very early on in the first set and very early on in the match. Not that there was a late on in the match. It was all early on and then it was over. but I think it was Zverev serving he was already one breakdown and he missed two just absolute dolly overheads on two separate points two back to back points there's just no way he's missing against anybody else and it's the suffocating pressure that Yannick Sinner is applying and I do you know I think he does that to everybody because he is that good David but I also think Zverev was absolutely feeble today.

12:36Matt Roberts: That is the world number three. That's the world number three. He's going to be the second seed at Roland Garros. Like it's a bad look for the sport. I don't know, it bummed me out a bit. How did you feel about it? Well, it's four matches this year I think they've played

12:55David Law: and I think Zverev has put up a real fight in one set. I remember Matt referencing that when you saw that set a few weeks ago and it was a good one. That was Zverev playing the way he can play. He can play way better than he did today. It's just that he didn't. And why didn't he? Now, again, as you say, a lot of it is because Sinner does things that nobody else does, so you're put in a different position. But now we're talking about something that is beyond that. He is rattled. He is freaked out by Sinner, it seems to me. I did think when we did the show on Friday morning and I described Artifeas as having a puncher's chance, really, it's because he packs such an incredible punch.

13:42David Law: But when he came out against Sinner, I was chatting a little bit that day to Pam Shriver just as the match was about to start. and I was talking about boxers that I remember who I could remember, like, they were so good, people like Floyd Mayweather and Muhammad Ali, and she sent me a photo instantly of Sugar Ray Leonard and her that she'd taken, like, yesterday, you know, because they happened to both be from Maryland. And these three boxers would, you could see in the eyes of their opponents that they would be making them feel like, will you just stand still so that I can hit you please because they wouldn't they would they would move and they would jab and they would make you feel uncomfortable they would make you feel like the ground was shifting beneath you and you could see Feast being moved in in directions he's not expecting to be moved in and he's he's trying to wind up into his big shots but he's never got sound footing and and it's it's and if we saw it again also against Hodder I think he as well he's hurt everybody and then suddenly he's playing Sinner and he hasn't got the balance because he's been moved the other way that he was expecting to be running and I mean Zverev is is in a real bind now because he doesn't know what to do I don't I mean I don't know what his game plan is when he comes out against Sinanau.

15:12David Law: I think it probably is what you said there, Matt. He feels like he's got to nail every serve. He's got to hit the lines. He's got to make them. Because actually, he should be able to stay a bit closer than he is. I mean, this is, like you said, Catherine, this is bad. I mean, 6-1, 6-2 in 57 minutes. I mean, come on. He was embarrassed at the end of that match. And rightfully so, really.

15:35Matt Roberts: I don't quite understand him, because he's he's, you know, he's doing this, he's growing his hair, he says he's not going to cut his hair until he wins a Grand Slam, right? Like that's his, he's prepared to have the most disgusting hair in the world. You know, such is his kind of commitment to setting that as his bar still. And yet, okay, look, things can happen. Yannick Senna might get injured, but things have already happened. And he's already had a tremendous stroke of luck by Carlos Alcaraz being taken out of the mix for this next Grand Slam that is his probably best surface, best Grand Slam.

16:18Matt Roberts: And putting in a performance like that against the guy that you're almost certainly going to have to play in the final, a performance that looked like that. I mean, I just don't, I don't understand him. I don't understand how that stacks up against saying I'm not going to cut my hair until I win a Grand Slam. Like, I don't get it. Someone help me get him. Is he just, is his internal monologue saying, well, Sinner might get injured. Or it might get hot one day. That's not enough. That's not in 57 minutes. Right, but I'm saying it might not get hot for his match against Sinner. Oh, okay. Some other thing might happen.

17:02Matt Roberts: So Zverev's plan for winning a Grand Slam of finally being able to get a haircut is global warming? Maybe. Yeah, you've got to grab onto anything. No, I think it's just a matter of stuff happens. There was a Grand Slam final between Maren Cilic and Kei Nishikori. It does happen. you know so you so you think his he's just accepted i can't be i can't beat sinner no i think that i could get lucky and somebody else could take him out or health could take him out yeah and is if that is the case is that any way to be going into a grand slam tournament is the third seed just accepting that you can't beat your theoretical closest rival well it doesn't have it doesn't have to be like a you don't jury that wipes them out of the sport it could just be like, you know, he's not having a good day.

17:59He's stiff. He's a pole in his quad, a slight quad pole or groin or like, it wouldn't be the first time that somebody said, you know, like if he's at his top form and I'm in my top form, I don't have a chance, but people aren't always at their top form when they want to be. So I think that's how, you know, people, you know, I think that's how everyone has to understand it at this point. Right.

18:24Matt Roberts: But the gap feels so massive that it might not even be bridgeable by Zverev being at his best and Senna being at his worst. You know, 57 minutes. David, you don't think that is Zverev's psychology right now?

18:41David Law: No, I don't. I think he was embarrassed today. I think he's felt he hasn't played as well as he can in other matches. But I think he goes into them thinking ahead of time, today's going to be different. You think he walked onto court thinking that today? Yeah, absolutely. And then I think you get a shock quite soon when you suddenly lose your serve. And then it must be a horrible thing. You don't come through a tournament and win all those matches and think, I'm going to be crap now. You don't think that. You don't think that. You think, I am playing well. well, I'm going to bring it. And especially that he's been saying all year, I'm going to bring it to these players because that's the way I'm going to be able to beat them.

19:26David Law: Rafael Nadal told me to do that. I'm going to do it. And I believe he's trying to do it. It's one thing saying you're going to try and do it. It's another thing to actually do it. But every week is different. It doesn't necessarily mean because it's happened before every time that it will happen next time. you know David nobody thought Grigor Dimitrov would be too nobody thought that Grigor Dimitrov would be two sets to love up against Yannick Sinner did they nobody you a little bit he was but my point is things can happen anything can happen on a given day you can get hot you can play out your mind one day imagine if that day happened to be at Ronan Garros that's what Alexander Zverev's thinking he's thinking if I play my absolute best I'm gonna win now he may well not he probably won't but that's what he's thinking I'm sure of it so in short David you never know you never know it's sport that's the beauty of it the thing is I feel like you know I feel like we've spent a lot of time talking about Zverev and obviously he you know it is an interesting case but like just just like i do think the main headline here is what sinner is

20:42Catherine Whitaker: is doing you know like okay has been made to look dreadful in that final but you know he's still the one who ended up getting to the final and he you know he's he's probably still going to think that he can get through the other side of the draw but you know if we focus on sinner like i think it's I think it's just absolutely outrageous what he's done in this little swing here through the Sunshine Double and the Clack like I didn't think it was really possible in this era of these two week events to just play them all and win them all you know and and part of it is the way he's winning so efficiently Benjamin Bonzi says hi David yeah Benjamin Bonzi and Thomas Mahatch are the two guys to have taken sets off of Sina recently.

21:34Matt Roberts: World numbers two and three, Bonzi and Match.

21:38Catherine Whitaker: I don't know. I think we're in danger of taking a little bit for granted. You know, like Matt, I know you wrote a piece very much not, very much making sure that we're not taking it for granted, like in terms of like just how hard a streak is to put together in this sport. And like, what was your sense from speaking to him in Madrid about like just like, He seems just so in control of everything that he's doing right now and just plotting his way through this season, making adjustments to his game, now his biggest rival is out the way. It's pretty incredible what he's doing right now, and yet he seems to take it in his stride.

22:21Catherine Whitaker: I do think he is getting tired, and I think he's going to spend a lot of time on the massage table this week. The dream. I do think he's...

22:36Matt Roberts: We should all be so lucky. Yeah. But, you know, I do think certainly after the Hodar match, a little bit after the Feast match, and even earlier, he definitely afterwards was like, yeah, I'm a little worried about the body holding up, you know. um it is it is a challenge um you know it it was great fortune today that he played so well and and made zinner not play so well and he was done with work in 57 minutes that's great because he's got to be in rome tomorrow and he has a he has a very very busy week in rome even before he it's a tennis ball um so because it is like the busiest you know it's it's the busiest off-court week of the year for this one.

23:30And, you know, he just hasn't had a lot of time off even because he's been playing so long and playing so deep. He hasn't had those extra days where, Oh, I was planning on having a semifinal today, but I don't. So it's free. So maybe I can, you know, go for a drive in the country or something like that. You know, he just hasn't had that. So, you know, that's another thing that like you know if you're grasping at another straw it's another thing that the field can think about like you know it's hard it's really hard i'm not saying he's going to get tired one day and show up and you know lay an egg but yeah it's but if somebody can get him in a

24:14Matt Roberts: difficult position and we used to say this about djokovic and his peak if you can get him in the position of having to even on a subconscious level question how dig you're prepared that how deep you're prepared to dig like am i prepared to go to the to the depths of what i'm capable of to win this tennis match and progress and win this tournament he hasn't been asked that question apologies to benjamin bonzi and thomas mahach he hasn't been asked that question for a really long time right but if someone can just right if someone can just get believe enough to get him in that position the answer the answer might be no with Roland Garros around the corner right now if I mean I just I just don't think that I don't think believing in it is enough for

25:03Catherine Whitaker: no almost everyone in the field he's too good like he will he will beat you before you get to that

25:11Matt Roberts: point I think so too but you're the ones all trying to tell me that it's that you never know

25:17Catherine Whitaker: I feel like I do know but no I'm the one who's doing okay the thing is I just want to just just to go back to the uh feast match because I found that so interesting because it was like the first time in a while I think they played a few years ago hadn't they but it was the first time since you know feast has really become this threat that he is like seeing that match up it was just interested what it would look like and i just i found it so interesting because david we're often and you're often making the point which i think is a great one that like one of feces great abilities is his rock solid double-handed backhand you know and i think that is a great strength of him against the rest of the tour and you see in that matchup with sinner how different it is playing sinner because suddenly that backhand looked like a major weakness against Sinner because there was kind of no variation on it.

26:10Catherine Whitaker: It was kind of all the same. And Sinner's ability to get width on that double-handed backhand, to change the direction on it, and it was suddenly like, oh, my goodness, like the Feast backhand suddenly looks a little bit sort of one pace and everything. And that shows you how good Sinner is because Feast's backhand doesn't look like that against everyone else on tour. And suddenly Sinner is just able to do completely, completely different things to everything else Feast faces. And also, like, I feel like we don't always talk about Sinner in terms of being like absolutely thrilling. You know, we kind of use that word probably for Alcaraz mostly.

26:48Catherine Whitaker: And, you know, I do find generally Alcaraz a more thrilling tennis player. but I do think the break points that Sinner played in that match to go up, what was it, 5-1 double break in the first set and 5-4 in the second set, they were both 24-shot rallies, and it was the most thrilling tennis I could imagine because it was back and forth, huge hitting, and then on the 24th shot of each rally, Sinner just pulled the trigger down the line, once on the forehand, once on the backhand, with a speed of shot and a control of shot that just like you know i was watching on my telly and i was like wow that matt in the stadium that must have just been unbelievable and like just the thrill i got out of that i just wanted to mention because you know it it was special seeing that it was great the second the second one especially you know the one for five four in the second set down the line, that down the line back end, right?

27:47And like that immediate, and he thought so too, because he like saw it and like did the immediate pirouette to the court with his box. And he just like looked at them with like, yeah, how about that? And no, it was great. I do think, you know, Feast, I mean, what Feast said after was just like, I really expected to serve like I had in the previous matches and I have no idea why, but I came out and I'd served poorly. And, you know, he's like, I just, I, he's like, I expected to get more free points. And so I think he probably, his game plan was not to end up in those long backhand to backhand rallies and to be kind of whizzing through some service games and try and get deep and try and get confident.

28:46And, you know, it didn't happen. I think he'll be better off in Rome and in... I don't know about Paris. Paris is going to be a lot of pressure on him. But I think he'll be better off... Madrid didn't do Fies a lot of favors because of... He said he found it really hard to control the ball. He said he'd much rather be lower down and he would just feel like he had more control. So, you know, I think he did really well to get to the semifinal, and I think he thinks he did really well for that. And, you know, probably wishes it was closer, maybe went to a third set against center. But, you know, who knows?

29:36It'll be a whole different kettle of fish in some ways in Roland Garros, and maybe it'll be just the same.

29:43Matt Roberts: I have two more questions for you all before we move on to talk about the women. The first is if Rome weren't Rome, if it were Lisbon or Berlin, name a European city that's not in Italy, you get the idea, would Yannick Sinner be playing it? Given what you've said about the fatigue, like Matt Futterman. What do we think? I mean, he's made very clear that he is playing it. There was never any question of him not playing it. I'm not saying that's not the right call, that it wouldn't be the right call even if it were in Lisbon. But would it be a different equation if it weren't Rome? I think it would be a different equation.

30:31He might still play. you know I think he like he's I think yeah I mean there was one press conference where it did I was trying to pick away at that scab and see if he would reveal any more and about it and he did reference sort of enjoying being in the rhythm and like he was like he went back to he didn't want to talk about you know my body's hurting its rest he he was doing as much as he might do the sort of mental calculation of you know rolling garris is a long way off and you know i would really like to be in a good rhythm going there and in addition i mean remember he does have I mean let's say he wins Rome he does have a full week off basically you know they'll probably do him a favor and let him start Monday or Tuesday even you know like they can do that

31:40Matt Roberts: lots of moose time in Paris yes I mean they can absolutely do that because it starts it starts Sunday but it's a three day first round so theoretically he could have nine days without playing a full match, which is a nice chunk of time, especially because, you know, it's not a long plane ride from Rome to Paris. Yeah, and you'd think, bringing me on to my second question, Roland Garros organizers will be, you know, bending over backwards to make him happy because it's, you know, the men's draw is going to look and feel pretty threadbare, isn't it? And my question is, David, I know you've been pondering this, which is interesting given that you're the you never know guy.

32:26Matt Roberts: But is it a mix of one at Roland Garros?

32:34David Law: I think at this stage, I'm going to say no, because... Because Novak Djokovic? Because it's... Well, definitely, definitely he is a big factor. I think he's such an irresistible, tantalising, wildcard joker in the pack of this tournament because of the fact that we've barely seen him. And he beat Sinner at the last Grand Slam from two sets to one down. I still find that astonishing that he achieved that. I do think it's different on clay. I think that that would be harder to pull off on clay for Djokovic. And particularly, you know, we really don't know what physical state he's in. You know, we don't really know what form he's in at all.

33:24David Law: But I'd still back him to be good. He's always good at the grand slams, isn't he, Djokovic? So a mix of two. But it's not just that, though. To me, it's more that it's still such a long way away. Like, there's a month away until that Roman Gars final.

33:42Matt Roberts: Right now, if you were setting the mix, who's in it?

33:46David Law: I mean, the thing is, I would probably say... We will do this again in two weeks' time, David.

33:50Matt Roberts: Don't worry. I feel like I would give a number without being able to give all the names.

33:59David Law: I think it's a mix of three or four, right? But I don't know who they all are. It's Djokovic and Sinner, and then the field have got a couple of spaces.

34:09Matt Roberts: There are four players in men's tennis that it would not surprise you if they won this Roland Garros title.

34:17David Law: In total, yeah, because I think somebody's going to get hot. Somebody else is going to get hot between now and... There are going to be two other semi-finalists in Roland Garros. And they will be playing bloody good tennis to get there. I just I think it almost seems too perfect for Sinner to be just saying that there's nobody else

34:46Matt Roberts: Of course there are, surprises can happen but to me with our definition of the mix it would be a tremendous surprise if anybody other than Yannick Sinner won Roland Garros right now, it's a mix of one for me but I want it to be more so I'm here for your take, David. The Matts. What are you saying, Matt? I think we have a weird... I think we have bad data here because if he had won one more point last year, he would be like, well, of course he's going to win. I mean, we'd be talking about it in terms of like, well, Sinner's unbeatable on clay, clearly, right? Because he was one point away from winning in straight sets.

35:33you know, Roland Garras. And like, and now he's not lost a match on clay this season either. So we'd be like, well, he's never going to lose on clay. And the only match he's lost on clay since 2020. I mean, the only other match he would have lost on clay was the Rome final, his first tournament back after three months off to Alcárez. So like, maybe he's, maybe Clay's his best surface like i don't know right that's the weird thing like we're one i think we're one point away he's one point away from us being like oh yeah he's in he's the next rafael nadal he's got this thing on lockdown right yeah so yeah that's my that was that's one that's just a thought that i've been having the last couple days as i increasingly watched him just it seemed he seemed to have been able to play six different ways on clay and everyone else is trying to play one.

36:34And he's like, well, I...

36:36David Law: That's what's impressed me so much is the different types of player he's just beaten, like just carved. And in different ways. It's been pretty exquisite. Yeah, he clings deep, then he moves up, then he hits drop shots, then he rushes the net and finishes at the net. There's no weakness. Yeah.

36:58Matt Roberts: Matt Roberts.

37:02Catherine Whitaker: Right here, right now, I would go mix of one. But I do think, I said this the other week in our chat, I do think Djokovic has slightly broken the concept of the mix. Because, like, right now, I'm not sure I would put him in it. But I am absolutely not, like, surprised if he wins. Right. Roland Garros like the reasons I would sort of hesitate to put him in the mix at this stage is just because we haven't seen him um you know he hasn't won a major in pretty long time now what is it coming up to coming up to three years two and a half years um but if he does win it I don't think I'm going to be feeling surprised I'm just going to kind of be in awe and I'm kind of part of me will be like sure like that's that's a that's how could we ever have thought this would that's a goat thing to do so i think he sort of just like exists a little bit outside of the mix at the moment but i would be surprised if anyone other than sinner or djokovic won the french open here right now i think like um you know 39 year old djokovic is probably sinner's biggest threat i think like a 39 degree celsius day is probably his second biggest threat i think injury is probably his third biggest threat.

38:23Catherine Whitaker: And then I think coming down to like deciding the actual names of who the other players are, I think will very much depend on the draw and the form that people find in Rome. It's all about the orangery. And the form they find through the tournament. You know, like Zverev's obviously in there, Fies, Mazzetti, these guys. But right now I can't put them in the mix as a singular name.

38:50Matt Roberts: Sinner, sort of special category, Novak Djokovic and global warming.

38:54Catherine Whitaker: Pretty much.

38:55Matt Roberts: Great. Yeah. The doubles, the men's doubles title in Madrid was won by Harry Heliovara and Henry Patton. They beat Andriozzi and Gina in the final. OK, that wraps things up on the men's front. Look at their thrilled faces. What a team they are. Incredible stuff.

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42:14Matt Roberts: On to the women in Madrid and a maiden WTA 1000 title for Marta Kostyuk, beating Mira Andreeva 6-3, 7-5 in the final. A great final, I think, you know, not one for the ages, but a good high quality final, competitive, had a lot of edge. Some of that edge was uncomfortable. the whole Ukrainian against a Russian element the fact that we knew that Marta Kostyuk would not be shaking Mirandrova's hand she didn't shake Anastasia Potopova's hand I know Matt you asked her about that ahead of the match in the press conference and she said very plainly unless you're Daria Kazikina and you've made significant efforts to denounce the war and distance yourself from it then Marta Kostiuk said I have a very hard line stance on this.

43:11Matt Roberts: And more on that later because it was pretty uncomfortable in the trophy ceremony afterwards. But an absolutely brilliant performance from Marta Kostiuk, David, and one that, well, at one time in her career would have felt like a long time coming. Winning a, you know, if you'd said when she was breaking through as a 15-year-old, it would take her till 23 to win a 1 ,000 title, you'd have been shocked. But then if you'd said two years ago that she'd be winning 1 ,000 titles in a couple of years, you'd have been shocked by that as well. Like she's been through so many phases of her career in such a short space of time.

43:58David Law: I feel this year she has just moved on to another level entirely. And it's somewhat muddied the waters by the fact that she had a significant period of injury after the Australian Open or kind of at the end of that Australian Open, which seeped into the next tournaments that followed. So she kind of just disappeared from the view and we weren't really thinking about her. but then I always go back to that run she had in Brisbane at the start of the year where she just thrashed really good players like just knocked them off the court some of the best players in the world some of the people we regard as contenders for big titles and I thought, okay, she looks like a different player to me and then she met Sabalenka in the final and it was like, oh, okay, there's another level and she lost that and the other losses she's taken have been against Rybakina So she's been losing to Sabalanka and Rabacchina, basically, and Giacomo.

44:58David Law: Thank you for getting out for Giacomo. Yes, but that was injury-assisted. I don't wish to be unkind to Giacomo, but that's a fact. I'm not surprised she won this tournament. From a couple of matches in, watching the way she was taking care of people, again, was like going back to Brisbane. and when you're watching that Brisbane you're thinking this is seriously high level but maybe it's just one of those weeks maybe it's just a hot week and the next week she goes back to normal I'm not saying I expect this every week and Madrid is altitude influenced but wow the fact that she's now got power and a good serve to go with the movement and the movement is it's her and Coco Gauff really I mean, there's nobody else.

45:52David Law: There's some very, very good movers on the WTA Tour. And I think Sabalenka moves really well. Jessica Begula. There's several. Iga Svantec's quick silver feet. But, you know, you add the speed across the ground to the athleticism, the sheer ability to just stretch, as you see in the photo we've got on our screen on YouTube at the moment. It's extraordinary. Great balance. but there's clearly something happening in the head where she just thinks this is where I belong and I'm not scared of you anymore and I'm coming out to win to win this match, win this title, match after match I'm really she's one of the most interesting stories of the next month to me I hope she stays fit because I think if she were to to carry this on she will be in my mix for for the french open because i think that that is a

46:47Matt Roberts: formidable looking player can coco goff do a do a backflip is the question we need to know or a backhand but there was a bit of gymnastics purists are pretty keen to point out that it was it's a backhand spring that she does and not a not a backflip because uh because the hands are involved but anyway impressive impressive either way that's her it's always been her victory celebration when she wins titles but obviously we've never seen it on as on as big a stage as this before so it's never had the spotlight that it that it has been getting um is this this is to to both mats is this a new normal is this a peak for Marta Kostiuk or is this a a new normal for her now do you expect her to continue this?

47:35Matt Roberts: Roberts has his hand up. Off you go.

47:38Catherine Whitaker: I think I am now viewing her as a different category of player, kind of like David. I do think this is sustainable and I think it's sustainable because of the quotes that I saw her give this week where she was talking about, to me, she's really realised something that I've always thought would maybe hold her back from being able to string wins together in that i've always thought of her as a a very like emotionally volatile player on the court you know like too high too low kind of person on court and she would soar and have these incredible moments where you can see how good her tennis is but things could unravel you know and i didn't necessarily think of her as someone who was actually like able to just go the course of the season being super consistent and stringing wins together you know she's won all 12 matches she's played on the clay this season i would not have thought that marta costit was kind of capable of that length of consistency because of the ups and downs but she talked about how she has totally like overhauled her mental approach to the sports i'll read some quotes here um from this is from the wta website I think she gave them in the in the presses saying I've done therapy for many years now and I've always wanted to change my overall perspective on tennis.

49:06Catherine Whitaker: For me, it was always very, very emotional and I would spend a lot of energy. Everything would matter so much to me, whether it was wins or losses, it was difficult to live in this constant emotional bombing from the inside. and I think you would get that in the sense of a match and also throughout the season as well. We've always known she's been incredibly capable but being able to transfer that to being just a winning player consistently is a very different skill I think and it feels to me like she's hit on that formula right now as well as David talked about some improvements in the game. The serve looked as good as I've seen it from her.

49:49Catherine Whitaker: She's kind of got a little hitch in the technique, and I don't think it flows that well, but it was really working for her. The forehand, I think, has improved a lot as well. She was super aggressive on that shot, which I loved. And the movement, seeing her defend like that, reminded me a little bit of some of those Andreva golf matches, because we've seen Andreva struggle in that matchup. She doesn't quite, I don't think, have the firepower to easily be able to hit through someone who moves that well. And I think Kostiuk got that blend of defence and attack just perfectly right in this tournament and in this final.

50:25Catherine Whitaker: So look, maybe it's the biggest title of her career. Maybe she doesn't win a slam and maybe like a thousand remains as big as she can win. But I do think these sorts of runs and competing at this sort of level now is something that I'm not going to be surprised if we keep seeing it from Kostya because of all those changes that she's sort of embedded into her game over a few years of kind of addressing them.

50:53Matt Roberts: I'm always trying to tell people, Matt, dogs in therapy are the key to life.

50:58Catherine Whitaker: Right.

51:01Matt Roberts: Buttermann's with me. She's got some great dogs. Absolutely. Now, I'm glad you mentioned the therapy because, I mean, it was, yeah, I was in that room when she sort of, like this and the way she said it was you know somebody asked about it and it was like Jesus therapy like I was just like I've done this you know like I needed to get a little less emotional and separate happiness from results and um you know I do think also not to like go not to do too much inside her head but like you know her mother's a big part of her tennis upbringing. I think there's a little, she was playing a rather emotional player today as well, whose mother is a very big part of her upbringing and her tennis upbringing.

51:57And, you know, I do think there's a lot, like, you know, there's, there's a lot of stuff there that, you know, inevitably, I'm not saying that critically, I'm just saying, you know, like, the whole pleasing of a parent thing um to factor into this uh sometimes with some people the other thing i will mention is something that is you know like maybe more boring maybe more interesting i'm not sure um you'd be the judge but it's something coco goff said said to me either last year or the year before when i asked her about like where she sees like her trajectory and like when she thinks she's gonna like it like do you do you think you're at like peak coco right now and she said she had the she was like if you look at it women seem to hit their peak and get really good at round 24 and she said Iga kind of screwed everything up for us because she was so good at like 19 20 21 and she's like but if you look at Like the typical woman, like it takes a few more years than that.

53:10And she's like, so I kind of have 24 in my head. And like, you think about it, she just turned 21. So like, how cool is that? She has three more, you know, she's, she's thinking like, yeah, I've got three more years. I'm still developing. And, you know, you said Kostik is 23. Like, I don't know if she just turned 23 or if she's, or if she's turning 24 later this year. But...

53:37Matt Roberts: Other Matt is the birthdays guy. Right, exactly. So... She's definitely 23, that much I know. Yeah, but, you know, that puts her pretty, you know, and this is a first one. So that would argue that, like, you know, she's hitting into her prime and, you know, by the Coco theory. Sabalenka got really good at around 24 too. Rebecca Noe won that fluky Wimbledon a few, you know, like 22 or so but she's about 25 now had obviously the weird year last year in that mid-20s neighborhood and I think that's something that like whether you're talking about Marta Kostiuk or you're talking about Victoria Mboko or Mira Andreva like, you know, it's not all about right now It might be about when they're, you know, full grown women.

54:31Yeah.

54:32Matt Roberts: And there's a bit of a kind of out of date sort of default assumption with women's tennis that, you know, it all happens young. And if you're not doing it by the time you're 21, then you're probably never going to be never going to be doing it. um but yeah that it's important to like actually look at the data and and see that that's just no longer the case it's just no longer the case with with women's tennis yeah i mean the human brain finishes developing at 25 so is that is that like a factor in all of this probably you'd hope the brain is a factor yeah right like you would think like i'd rather walk onto the court with a fully developed brain than one that still has four or five years to go.

55:22Matt Roberts: And by contrast, Androva's quotes after that final, she was very, very upset in the moment. And I know the WTA communications manager did ask if she wanted to leave the court to compose herself. She was offered that opportunity before the trophy ceremony. and she said she did want to stay on the court, but she was visibly very, very distressed. And she talked afterwards about the bear trap, the tennis bear trap of just feeling like losses are the most devastating thing in the world and having your whole self-worth and self-esteem tied to your tennis results. And it's so easy to say, well, like, obviously that's not, that's not the way to be look at madison keys and look at martin kostuk and you've just you know got to get some therapy and see the light and and unpack all of that but she's a a she's a teenager and b like a lot of those a lot of that psychology will be what's got her to this place right will be what's propelled her to make the sacrifices that she's she's needed to make in order to be as good as she already is you know there are she's she's top 10 in the world as a as a teenager there are thousands and thousands of excellent tennis players out there just trying to make a living like she's exceptional and yeah I don't know it's but it but that is that is the tennis player bear trap isn't it of of detaching your self-esteem from from your results and And it was very tough hearing her talk so explicitly about that after the match.

57:14I back her.

57:16Matt Roberts: I do back her. I think she's got a smart head on her shoulders. I think she's I love her tennis. I love the team around her. I know it's it's it's not always plain sailing with Conchita, is it? But I do back that partnership. But I I also do worry about her quite a lot as well.

57:39David Law: I did like the sound that was coming from her box during that match not just from Conchita but the the rest of the team in there very positive trying to be really upbeat around her and I mean look as a match she she produced some really good stuff to to kind of get back into it using angles and using the things that make her pretty unique her ability to to do almost do some of the things that Sinner does just get people off balance and send the ball behind opponents unfortunately she was up against somebody who's that athletic she can get back into those rallies and take them over again and that's what she she did um but yeah it I do I do feel for Andreva and yet I'm really encouraged that she is so uh upfront about it now you know there's no she doesn't pretend that it's not happening or that she isn't working on it or that she doesn't need to work on it work on it and um i i think as well she's gonna she's gonna keep having success in the future because she's actually having a good year you know it's just it's hard to separate what your dreams are and what you're trying to achieve out there with with being proud of what you already have done and you just have done she's also playing a lot

58:58Catherine Whitaker: you know like she played Lynch, she played Stuttgart, she played singles and doubles in Madrid and went deep in both and look I do think that doubles is probably psychologically quite good for her like she's very different sort of when on the doubles court and you know like the interactions there with Schneider I think are probably good for her but I don't know I know she's young it just seems like a lot of tennis and when you're when a lot of your problems are kind of in your head i do think it's going to be exacerbated by if you're fatigued you know and it's not like you know she's she's not like sviontek a few years ago or sinner at the moment where she's playing a lot and just crushing people so she's not spending that much time on court like she's playing some arduous matches in there as well i i do which are the most mentally frying types of matches.

59:55Catherine Whitaker: I worry a little bit about the fatigue of Andrew. And I think we saw that last season as well. I think she just burnt out as the season went on. She had that hot start and just really faded. So I think that's a factor for her as well.

1:00:13Matt Roberts: Yeah, she's already got a dog, hasn't she? So just therapy to go for Andrew. Kostiuk and the Roland Garros mix. Folks, I so want to put her in it, but she does not have a good Grand Slam record. And to go from never really having done anything in a major before to feeling unsurprised at her winning one, for me is a bridge too far. As much as her tennis to me looks like it might be there, I just think that it's more likely that she'll reach a quarter or a semi-final this time. And that'll be a kind of bridge, hopefully, to being in future mixes. But that Grand Slam record is what is giving me pause.

1:01:04Matt Roberts: But I would like to be wrong because she would be such a great addition to the top of the game generally and Grand Slam mixes discuss. David, you kind of threw her in there, I think. Yeah.

1:01:21David Law: Yeah, you did? Yeah, yeah. I believe in the form. I believe in the level that I'm seeing. I totally take your point, though. We may get three weeks down the road and she may not look like she's in that form anymore. But I'm going to... What do you know? I'm optimistic about it. And I believe she's going to repeat it and go on an absolute tear through that draw. The mats. I mean, I think it's a pretty big mix, actually. How big? I don't know. I could rattle off, like, at least six players that I really wouldn't be that surprised. You know, one of them was, well, two of them had some serious intestinal problems.

1:02:15last week and Svjantek

1:02:18Matt Roberts: but are now post-puke which is the ideal place to be right Svjantek and Goff so like I don't know I guess I would if you win a WTA 1000 you've done yourself well there's no asterisks but like Mukova didn't play this week is she in your mix is she one of the names oh yeah Yeah I mean I guess it would be surprising Mukava's always in Matt's mix Yeah I mean yeah she is and you know so she didn't play this week a lot of people got sick We'll know a lot more after Rome I mean I would just write like Sabalenka, Shiantek even though I'm suspicious about her game on clay, Rabakina would be stupid to say she's not in the mix.

1:03:19Goff, Mukova, that's already five. I could probably throw Andreeva. I wouldn't be surprised if she won. I could probably throw out one or two more. That wouldn't surprise me. So it's pretty. I think since there's a lot of depth and there's a lot of really good players, Matt Roberts

1:03:44Catherine Whitaker: yeah I think I agree on the on the difference on the women's side here like I do think there's a there's a deeper pool of of names who it feels like less of a long shot that they beat Savalenka compared to trying to beat Sinner over five sets I suppose and that that's not to knock Savalenka because I think she's been an incredibly dominant number one. But I think, you know, she's maybe got a few more questions in terms of just, like, converting at majors than Sinner has. And I know they've, what are they, on the same number? But, like, I don't know. I just sort of, I feel like I sort of trust Sinner a little bit more at the back end of a major than I do Sabalenka slightly.

1:04:38and I think on clay as well like you know she she's not been that you know she's not been as

1:04:45Catherine Whitaker: close to winning Roland Garros as as Sinner was last year and she's not had like a clay season that Sinner is putting together this year you know so it doesn't quite feel like she's so far above the rest of the field as Sinner is and that I think just brings more names into the equation anyway and there's a lot of people who are who are still playing well so I think I would I think I could get on board with at this stage right here right now having just seen Costia putting her in the mix right because I do think it's bigger on that on that women's side and also a big part of this as well is is the Igor Svantec drop-off you know because for a long time Roland Garros on the women's side we were talking about mix of one because of how good Igor Svantec was versus the field wasn't it and and I do think it's you know it's still possible to me that Svante comes out in Rome and looks brilliant and that changes the feel a little bit of Roland Garros.

1:05:41Catherine Whitaker: I still, I don't think it would ever, I don't think we're at a stage where she can look so good that it's going to be a mix of one in a few weeks time. But I think you could, you could see a scenario where Sabalenka and Svante just elevate a little bit. But, you know, as far as names are concerned, like Svitolina, I think could well be in there. and Draver, Kostiuk, they're all like on the edge of the mix and I could probably make a case for them being in. Pagula as well, I think is, you know, Clay is not her favourite and, but, you know, she's super good. So, like, it wouldn't be like totally shocking to me if Jessica Pagula, it's way less shocking to me if Jessica Pagula wins the French Open than Ben Shelton wins the French Open.

1:06:33like way less shot like a totally different degree of surprise so i you know i think it's

1:06:41Catherine Whitaker: pretty big on the women's side but i i do obviously have sabalenka as the favorite at this state best of three versus best of five like totally changing the equation it makes a big difference you can win two sets again like people can win two sets against sabalenka you know and then she doesn't get way too more like go win three sets again go win one set against the onyx center and then do it two more times.

1:07:05Matt Roberts: She got a bit of a hammering Kostiuk for not mentioning her opponent in her speech. Obviously, there was no handshake. It was all, you know, that was signalled in advance. Everyone knows Marta Kostiuk's stance on that. Mirandreva knew Marta Kostiuk's stance on that. And she was reminded of it by the, you know, briefed on it by the WTA comms manager immediately after the match. I think a lot of people thought she still might mention Andreeva in the speech. Personally, I'm okay with her not. And yet I also have a lot of sympathy with Mira Andreeva being in that situation, I think particularly because of her age.

1:07:45Matt Roberts: But I do respect, I really respect Marta Kostjevic's stance on it all and respect her right to handle it however she sees fit really if she were taking the mic and sort of actively disrespecting androva that's a different thing but sort of absence of acknowledgement personally i i i'm okay with but i know i do know that some people saw that one differently i don't know if anybody has anything in particular they they want to say about that it's okay if you don't i'm fine i think she mentioned like all of her opponents generally which was quite a clever way of doing it

1:08:31David Law: I mean actually you and I referenced it to you last night Catherine because it became a talking point on the barge when you said that to me about you can feel for Andreva on a human level but actually totally respect why Kostuke's done what she's done I thought that sounds right to me

1:08:54Matt Roberts: And she, as we've alluded to, Andrava, was also in the doubles final with Dennis Schneider. They lost out to Katarina, Siniarkova and Taylor Townsend in that final. So congratulations to Siniarkova and Townsend. Still an absolutely formidable partnership. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85 % of the Fortune 500 use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most.

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1:10:22Matt Roberts: Rome gets underway on Tuesday. No draws yet. How do they do the draw in Rome, Matt? Is it fun? Do they do anything with it? Is it a PDF? What have we got?

1:10:34Catherine Whitaker: Don't know off the top of my head. It's probably bad.

1:10:41Matt Roberts: I think you would know about it if it were anything other than bad.

1:10:46Catherine Whitaker: Prove them wrong, Rose. People have, you know, tournaments have been upping their draw game a little bit or trying to this year. They have, yeah. The message is getting through. Indian Wells, Madrid stream them. You know, these were good developments.

1:10:58Matt Roberts: We'll see. We'll see. So draws take place tomorrow. We've got final rounds of qualifying tomorrow and the main draw gets underway on Tuesday. So I assume the draw takes place.

1:11:09Catherine Whitaker: I know the women's draw is definitely out tomorrow. I'm not sure about the men's. I think it's the same as Madrid in that they're kind of a day behind with the men, aren't they?

1:11:20Matt Roberts: Yes. Yes. For reasons I don't understand. Some interesting names in qualifying in Rome. Stan Marenka didn't get a main draw world card. Don't know that he asked for one. I kind of assume he did. But only a qualifying berth for him. Anastasia Potopova still in qualifying. Obviously, she was a qualifier in Madrid as well. And cutoffs for the entry for these events take place. weeks in advance. So Potopova's Madrid points not registering in time to get her into the Rome main draw. So that'll be interesting. And Lily Taggart in qualifying action as well. That's fun. Big smile from Matt Futterman at the mention of Lily Taggart.

1:12:03Matt Roberts: Raducanu, Emma Raducanu's making a comeback after weeks on the sidelines with post-viral illness, which is really troubling to hear and I think there's so much I mean David you know better than anyone about this but so much kind of misunderstanding or lack of understanding about post viral illness out there so I really really wish her well Instagram suggests to me that we're going to finally get the debut of the big Giovanni Pesci Perikard-Greg Rozetsky partnership I'm on the edge of my

1:12:41David Law: see i wonder if he'll serve well he better and uh and and and news that uh emir adecano did indeed practice with uh andrew richardson uh as we as we first alluded to um but it apparently is where it ends or at least for now there's no no suggestion that he's in rome or is about to be in running garros but we'll take the win i mean no suggestion that greg's going to be at roland garros either i

1:13:15Matt Roberts: think you know let's go let's go tournament by tour let's see how rome goes for giovanni um did you see that they've um and i find this interesting because it feels like with tournaments especially with expansions um particularly ones that are financially advantageous like genies just don't go back in bottles at tennis tournaments but rome have rode back on what they did last year with and Matt you were in Rome last year am I right yeah they put the extra stands up around the Pietrangeli court and it was a bit of a misstep wasn't it because it kind of detracted from the the wonder of pretty much the best court in tennis I as I said that I thought I bet Matt's gonna say he doesn't like Pietrangeli because that would be so Matt Futterman to love the magic box and not like the Pietrangeli court but anyway they've road back and they've taken those extra stands away this year well done rome i just this that i have a different reaction to the statues than everybody does because they like they just like they just seem like super fascist to me and like i mean i think they are yeah definitely super fascist yeah it's like a whole mussolini thing and i'm a little twitchy about world war ii as And the access powers, as you can imagine, and the glorification of that.

1:14:38You know, so like...

1:14:40Matt Roberts: That feels fair enough. Not crazy. Not crazy about those statues. The sunken court with the concrete, you know, benches are kind of wild.

1:14:51David Law: That's the bit I'm into.

1:14:53Matt Roberts: To be fair, the first time I went to Rome, I was quite taken aback by how much Mussolini celebration, or certainly if not celebration, then presence of Mussolini there was. And right the next building over on the same ground, there's something like known as the Mussolini pool, which is like this indoor pool, which has these crazy massive sort of like ceramic murals that are sort of the mural version of those statues. it's a it's a it's like uh like obviously you're not going to get rid of a building and a nice pool but it's a little creepy yeah no my other my only other take on rome is that it's the biggest delta between the food on site and the food off site it's like it would be on site is bad food on site is pretty bad for the for the public or for the are we talking about no for the public like there's no there was no bad italian food there's no like special media dining center or anything like that that i'm talking about like the state the like places where everybody goes and like buys their whatever the options is it is it not even good pizza maybe no not really no it's it's like it's pretty it's pretty unforgivable it's bizarre it's like it would be okay it's such a layup like it's such a they don't try very hard it's just you know well it's fish in a barrel isn't it at these i mean at any major event you don't have to try hard because people are in and they're hungry and they'll eat what's there right and you don't you're not banking on returning custom are you yeah so that's the that's my only other other i knew you'd have negative stuff to say about the rome fan experience i love rome it's like my favorite that's completely magical place.

1:16:56It's just they could do better by their fans.

1:17:01Matt Roberts: Less Mussolini, more good pizza.

1:17:03Catherine Whitaker: It was last year you were there when the Pope The Conclave. The Conclave, yeah. That was last year, wasn't it?

1:17:13Matt Roberts: Wow.

1:17:14Catherine Whitaker: Yes.

1:17:15Matt Roberts: Do you think the Pope will go to the tennis? Is that something Popes do? This one is really into tennis. Yeah. I don't know. What would he wear? And what would he eat? The food's bad. I think popes always wear the same. I mean, I don't know what they wear underneath the robe, but I don't think there's much decision-making in the morning for popes when they get up. I think there's one outfit hanging in their wardrobe, and that's what they pop on.

1:17:47Catherine Whitaker: Yeah, he's not going to be dressed as a carrot, is he?

1:17:52it seems like it would it would not be great to go to a tennis match in like that and so

1:18:00Matt Roberts: yeah absolutely not but i think once you sign up to be pope that's it's what you're letting yourself in for yeah um okay right how do i segue from pope to well frankly anything else. This is the last week to enter the Mike Dixon Award that we told you about a couple of shows ago. It is an award for young aspiring tennis journalists or sports journalists. It is open to any UK resident aged between 18 and 24 as of the 1st of June. So if you're aged between 18 and 24 on the 1st of June then you're eligible to enter. The deadline for applications is 11.59pm on this coming Sunday, so Sunday the 10th of May.

1:18:51Matt Roberts: If you want to enter, you submit a 600-word feature on any tennis-related subject, plus 250 words explaining why you're entering and details of your current employment or studies and any previous media experience that you have. And then the winner, once they're selected, will receive accreditation for one day at both Queens and Wimbledon with the opportunity to write an article for the LTA and the Wimbledon website as well during their time at the event. So if you fancy entering and it really is a brilliant, brilliant thing set up in the name of and honouring and supported by the legacy of Mike Dixon, the former Daily Mail tennis correspondent who we lost a couple of years ago in Australia.

1:19:40Matt Roberts: It's a fantastic thing to honour his memory because he was particularly excellent at supporting young, aspiring journalistic talent. So if you're interested in entering, then you send your entry to btjadixon, b-t-j-a-d-i-c-k-s-o-n at gmail.com. We are part of the judging panel this year, which is fun for us. And if you want to know anything more, then you can find full details at btja.co.uk forward slash press room. And we will pop the link to that in our show notes as well. In terms of us, we will be back next Monday. But we have a friend's show coming up this Wednesday, a Q &A show that'll be 8pm UK time right here on YouTube and up as a podcast as well shortly afterwards.

1:20:37Matt Roberts: Buckle up We promise it'll be kind of random

1:20:40Catherine Whitaker: Matt, that Q &A just how you like it Love it

1:20:45Matt Roberts: And speaking of kind of random buckle up for the mascot and shout out section of the show Matt, today's mascot, very excited about this, I had a preview early when I accidentally scrolled down too far and I became giddy with excitement about Gwen, owned by Keturah Anderson-Shivers, who has been a longtime friend and supporter of the pod, former quiz champion. And Gwen here is a little rescue and a mixture of unknown breeds. She's a total sweetheart. I can see that, Keturah. And she loves almost anybody, with one notable exception of Keturah's father-in-law. which is incredible her favorite favorite things are playing with her soft toys and cuddles her favorite toy is a huge seahawks blitz plushie do you understand what one of those is david

1:21:42David Law: i suspect you own one of those i know i mean it's one of the things i don't own i assume it's associated with do they own one of these that's the thing you know one of the things I've got in the back.

1:21:54Matt Roberts: We will look into that. I think there's a bit of bit of chihuahua maybe a bit of papillon in there maybe a bit of shih tzu whatever's in there, Gwen and Keturah Gwen is a gorgeous girl I love her, I love the name as well so thank you Keturah for Gwen being today's mascot. We of course have our mascots. Hello to Bodhi hello to Maisie and hello to Roger. Hello to our top folks and executive producers Greg, Chris and Geoff. And it's over to Matt Roberts for some shout-outs.

1:22:31Catherine Whitaker: We have Rachel Kirby from East Sussex. Hello, Rachel. Hi, Rachel. Rachel says, I'm hoping David may have some 90s memories of Rachel McQuillan.

1:22:45David Law: Yes, I was just about to say, mate, Rachel McQuillan. Absolutely, Rachel. You and me. Any memories of Rachel McQuillan? Australian, I think.

1:23:01Matt Roberts: You've done well. I don't know whether I'm right yet.

1:23:06Catherine Whitaker: None of us are going to correct you. Rachel says, otherwise I will take Angelique Kirby, which is what Andrew Cotter suggested when he was a guest for my shout out a few years ago.

1:23:22David Law: Rachel McQuillan was a 54-year-old tennis player who reached the fourth round of the Australian Open, French Open and US Opens and 28 in the world. And she was from, well, she still is, maybe she still is, from Newcastle, South Wales in Australia. So I was right.

1:23:44Matt Roberts: I assume she wasn't 54 at the time she did all that. I assume she's now 54.

1:23:48David Law: No, no, no. She's now 54. Yeah, that's right.

1:23:51Matt Roberts: Yeah.

1:23:52David Law: She won bronze in the 1992 Olympics, Catherine. So right up your street.

1:23:57Matt Roberts: Better than a silver. Thank you, Rachel. Yeah.

1:24:01Catherine Whitaker: We also have Adam Seafew.

1:24:05Matt Roberts: Hello, Adam.

1:24:06Catherine Whitaker: Hi, Adam. Who says, I'd love to dedicate a shout out to Sarah Stein, my wife. We live in Chicago. Sarah is an obsessive listener who finally converted me in 2025. she doesn't actually watch much tennis but can talk tennis with the best of them, she's been to the US Open, she's been to Rome and she hopes to eventually complete the fan slam, so hello Sarah

1:24:34David Law: yes Sarah and Adam like Adam Walton yes and Sarah like Sarah Gomer British player from the 80s very good on the tip of your tongue wasn't it

1:24:52Matt Roberts: fantastic Sarah thank you Sarah and Adam thank you very much and good luck with completing your fan slam I love it when people do that fan slam plus Rome excellent

1:25:06Catherine Whitaker: and finally we have Sam from Newcastle the English one he writes and Sam says

1:25:15Matt Roberts: well the other ones already had a mention in the shout outs.

1:25:19Catherine Whitaker: Indeed. Sam says, I would like to apologise to Matt for the two losses Newcastle have put on Fulham this season. And he writes, he very accurately writes, so far, because we still have Newcastle to play and potentially lose to.

1:25:33Matt Roberts: Oh, there was a cup defeat, wasn't there? In fact, that was the draw that you were at my flat for.

1:25:38Catherine Whitaker: Yeah. And I was there for the league game. Yeah. Yeah. It's been, we've had a tough time with Newcastle. Apology not accepted, Sam.

1:25:47Matt Roberts: sound like sam groff yep

1:25:53Catherine Whitaker: query stozer

1:25:57Matt Roberts: stozer yep the big three matt futterman anything to add to this portion of the show i'm just appreciative of all those people who are listening um especially love someone who doesn't watch much but like enjoys the gossip and the chatter i think quirky thing because I that's sort of a way that I follow a number of sports um right yeah so yeah keep going well it's been um it's been a joy to have you on today's show Matt thank you for fitting it into your post Madrid schedule and I personally cannot wait to have chocolate mousse with you and the rest of Team Athletic in Paris. Yeah, I believe David described it as like a chocolate cloud.

1:26:51It was after the first bite. It was just like so light and airy. And I remember you said cloud.

1:27:00Matt Roberts: But also rich. Like, oh. Yeah. So there it is. So great. Can't wait. do check out Matt and Charlie and Ava and James's work on The Athletic. We are part of The Athletic Podcast Network. And thank you for listening. Thank you for joining us live on YouTube tonight. If you did that, participating in the very lively chat. Thank you for all of that. And we will speak to you next week.

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