Miami - Are Sinner & Sabalenka getting even better?

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1:34Hello and welcome to the Tennis Podcast live on this fine Monday evening and here to say the word double a lot over the next hour or so because Yannick Sinner and Irina Sabalenka have completed the double, sunshine double and Taylor Townsend and Katerina Siniarkova have completed the doubles, double sunshine double, making it actually a triple sunshine double. You got that? OK, good. My doubles team for tonight's show is, of course, David Law. How are you doing, David?

2:11David Law: I'm all right. Yeah, I did enjoy all the doubles stuff there. And, you know, back when I was allowed, the sunshine double was hard. And apparently now it's really easy and everybody can do it. But, you know. Some of them can do it without dropping a set, David. More on that in a moment. And because Matt Roberts apparently overexerted himself while golfing in La Manga this weekend in his shiny new shoes, heroically stepping in to fill the mat-shaped hole on tonight's show is the Athletics' Matt Futterman. Matt, how are you doing? I'm doing great. I'm doing a lot better than I was at 1.30 this morning in the Fort Lauderdale airport where my plane that was supposed to take off at 9.15 was looking for pilots.

3:00So they found pilots. They loaded us onto the plane. We took off at 2.35 and yeah, got back to New York about 5.30. And here I am. I hate it, Matt, when they tell you specifically what is going wrong with your plane and or airline, just tell me we're delayed because the captain is rescuing a puppy from the runway. Don't say you're sourcing a replacement part or that you've run out of fuel or that there are no pilots. Don't definitely don't tell me that. If you need to tell me anything, lie to me. No, I like as much. I believe in information. I find information liberating and it all made sense.

3:47There was air traffic control issues and weather issues in New York. And these, you know, they run out of hours, basically, because they have a limited amount of, they have a limited amount of, I'm terribly sorry, I need to mute these phone calls. That's rude. So anyway, sorry about that. Highly in demand, Matt. Yes, I guess so. So anyway, the pilots run out of hours and the crew runs out of hours because there are union rules about how long they can work because they get tired, it turns out. So it all makes sense. I don't want people to be overworked. I don't want people flying my plane who are sleepy.

4:30So finding new pilots, I'm okay with that. That is such a grown-up approach. If I'm on the plane, just tell me they're rescuing puppies. Yeah. Right. Let's get into one half, no, one third of the triple double Sunshine Double. I thought I had this straight in my head. It turns out I really, really don't. But anyway, let's talk about Yannick Sinner. He has done the Sunshine Double without dropping a set. He's the first man ever to do that. He's the first ATP player to complete the Sunshine Double since Roger Federer in 2017. He did it by beating, since our last show, Alexander Zverev in two tight sets in the semifinals, 6-3, 7-6, and by beating Yirila Hetschka yesterday, 6-4, 6-4, in the final, a both delayed and interrupted final, which was a bit of a downer.

5:35Not Yannick Sinner's tennis, though, David. is he getting better?

5:42David Law: I think he is. I think he is getting better. I think he's absolutely extraordinary. And, you know, sometimes when a player wins Miami or Indian Wells or both and does the double, I'll often think, oh, that's impressive and we'll obviously make a big thing of it on the podcast because we cover the sport and they are big events. But I'll often think, well, yeah, but this is in the middle of nowhere, isn't it? in the calendar it's it's this thing that's dropped between two of the grand slams doesn't lead anywhere doesn't mean much um but all very nice and might might give you a side story of a world number one ranking takeover like marcelo rios back in the day in 1998 but here i actually think this was a real must do for yannick sinner in one way or another i thought he needed this both in terms of the fact that he wasn't playing it a year ago so it's very useful ranking points gets him closer to number one I still think of that personally as a bit of a side issue because I think that the biggest thing he needed to do was rebound after the Australian Open you know this is a guy who in his in his last Grand Slam find against Carlos Alcraz he lost handily at the US Open.

7:01David Law: He pledged to respond with variety and to add more to his game. He seemed pretty disillusioned with the way he was playing at that time. And he's obviously had a great end to the season, but he came out and he got beaten by Novak Djokovic. He got outplayed in the end by Novak Djokovic. And I do feel like he needed a response. And I thought we would get a response. I thought he would may well win both of these tournaments, particularly because Al Kras didn't seem quite as tuned in as he needed to be. But I was not expecting a performance like this over the last four weeks to not drop a set, to look like he could do anything he wanted with the ball to diffuse the game.

7:49David Law: So I know he didn't play Al Kras, but basically it looked like it looked like you would need Al Kras at his very best to to have a chance of beating him the way he played everything looked right even his clothes looked right his his his light pink shirt and his light pink shoes that all goes it's not the disaster of the clothing that he wore at the australian open i just feel like and the serving i cannot get my head over you know when i think back to me asking charlie and you and matt roberts to varying degrees of enthusiasm, which serve you would rather have out of Carlos Alcraz and Yannick Sinner.

8:28David Law: And I was saying Alcraz, and now Yannick Sinner has made me think again. It's incredible what he was doing. The way he was serving his way out of trouble, the way he hits his spots, he just made it look easy. And I think it selfishly, I feel like it sets it up for us as viewers so perfectly for the next few months now. And I can't wait. Pumped. I mean, he's made some very minor but technical tweaks to that serve, hasn't he? He's able to take more load on it, I think is the technical term. And look, the results, you know, they speak for themselves. I think 33 out of 36 first serve points won by Sinner in that final, 10 aces.

9:17I think in the US Open final, Matt, he was serving less than 50%. It wasn't quite a shot in crisis, but there was a point there where there was really not much debate over who serve you would rather have out of Alcaraz and Sinners, and it does feel like Sinner, particularly on that shot as a kind of bellwether for his whole game, has taken himself to a new level now. Certainly a level out of Uri Le Hetchka's reach. Yeah, he was, I mean, the spot serving was just incredible. If you look at some of the graphics that we have access to, and you just see all the colored dots on these, you know, hovered around these lines.

10:01It's really, it was pretty remarkable. I think it was, I think it was, it was until early in the second set that he lost a, he hadn't lost a point on first serve, maybe three games, maybe his second time serving in the second set. So, yeah, I mean, it made him mostly untouchable. And, yeah, he seemed to be out of sorts at the end of the summer last year with his serve. He just kind of lost the plot a little bit on it. I'm not enough of a technical expert to explain exactly what was going on. but it wasn't what was going on the last month. And yeah, I mean, I bumped into him. I loitered on the lawn waiting for him, for Simone Vignacci, to chat with him about it the other day.

10:59And he just looked at me and he said, he's playing better than he was last year, you know? And I said, really, what do you think? And he was just like, the serve and the volleys are just much better than they used to be. So, you know, it was obvious to keep an eye on the serve after he's telling you that. And also, yeah, he's tough when he came in. And it's not even that he's coming in that much, but it's like the threat that he can also come in, although he does have a lot of success when he comes in. But it is just like that, you know it's there. It's sort of like the Alcaraz drop shot. Like, it's always going to be a threat.

11:45And so you have to guard against it. And it's impossible to guard against it when somebody's hitting 100-mile-an-hour forehands at you. So it's... Yeah, he's making good decisions about when to come in and when to deploy that variety. It feels like he's sharpened those instincts. Whereas, you know, kind of post-US Open, when he told us he was going to start trying to do this, it felt like maybe it was a bit more analogue and he was forcing it a bit, but he's kind of got it into his bloodstream now. I mean, the spot serving is so... That's so Yannick Sinner, isn't it? The precision of that. Like, of course he's a great spot server.

12:23Did you see the... David, I know you saw it because I sent it around our group, the YouTube video that the tournament made. there are various versions of it on all socials if the players, both the men's and the women's players trying to bounce the ping pong ball across a bunch of like, I think they were table tennis bats and then into kind of a really sophisticated Tennessee version of ping pong. And like, I mean, Alcaraz didn't even manage it. There were players that took like 60 plus attempts. It was a really well edited video. There was a lot of suspense and fun in it. Yannick Sinner did it on the fourth try and you see him look up to somebody off camera and do an expression as if to say, you really thought that was going to be hard for me.

13:14There is something so ruthless and clinical about him right now and just terrifying for the rest of the field. I know, look, it's crumbs off the table, but I know this still will go down as a good tournament for the field because a guy like Jurida Hetchka has made the final and ultimately it hasn't been a Sinner Alcaraz final. And as a crumb off the table for everybody else, that counts as one. I mean, not much of one, given how well Yannick Sinner's playing and not even dropping sets and looking like he wants to take everyone's heads off, quite frankly, David.

13:57David Law: and the thing is he looks like he's doing a lot of it quite easily as well I mean it's the way he can change direction to go down the line off any stroke he decides to I mean in that second match that he played in a couple of weeks against Zverev you know Zverev was poor in the first one and and and it and Sinner messed with his mind with the way he stood way back and in the second one, Zverev played well. And in the second set, he played really well and he got into a tie break. And I know Matt, you remarked in our group on the fact that he kind of provided a bit of jeopardy or at least a bit of a match in a run of matches that weren't particularly exciting in the last few days.

14:42David Law: But even so, at no point did I think he's going to win a set because Sinner is... It's hard to believe that the world number two can be that much better than the world number three. And that's the situation. Yeah, I mean, I disagree with your take on that he was doing it so easily. And maybe this was something of a feel from being there in person and seeing it a little more up close. But I also felt I was not at Indian Wells. And I also sort of felt this way when I was watching him, especially in the sort of, you know, in the later rounds, like I, I don't know that it came that easily. I know that he was trying really hard and was really locked in.

15:33And like, I mean, I think if, if, I mean, like it's pretty close, that tie break, Zverev lost that ball on the lights and was playing, you know, he was playing great tennis. And I do think if he gets it to a third set, he wins because as center it was, it was warm that night. He was playing great. He was confident and center was starting to heave a little bit and he was starting to, you know, lean on the racket. And he was, you know, his, his, I don't want to say his legs were starting to go, but it was, he was being physically tested there. I thought he was getting pretty, he was getting a good test against Alex Mickelson as well.

16:18there were several there were just a few times in this tournament where I felt like he had to you know go into that higher gear shift into overdrive he had to do a pretty early against Lachezka even and I mean Lachezka talked about this a little bit you know when he had him he had him down love 40 and Sinner was just like okay I've got to do this and he you know and he hit five of the best serves you'd ever see in your life and you know but that's not easy like i don't feel like he did that easily i feel like he no he makes it look easy to me though you know like it's

16:58David Law: it's it's it's the aesthetics of it i mean he's working incredibly hard and he's so diligent um and i think it's a measure of the man that he can he can make something that's so bloody hard look like he could do it anytime he wants right and i love it that he's that he was so open about why he's doing it like he wants to be number one again like it's important to him and he's like look and and like you know i hate it when players are like oh ranking doesn't mean it you know the players can be all over the map about the ranking and and players do have different different emotional reactions to the ranking, but any of them who tells you like, oh, it doesn't matter.

17:46It just goes into, you know, it's just, yeah, it's good to be seated here. It's a reflection of how you're playing. You know, that's like, it's total BS. Like they are obsessed with the number that is next to their name. They are planning their schedules around it. They're plotting about it. They are, you know, like all of them are. Alcaraz has a little different reaction to it. I don't think, I mean, I think Alcaraz, I know this because he's told me, he's said he's told me and others about it. Like he thinks he's, no matter what number is next to his name, like he's pretty sure he's the best player in the world.

18:22Like I think he's pretty confident about that. I think Sinner likes to have a number one next to his name for that reassurance because the head-to-head is not in his favor with Alcaraz. So I think it gives him an extra boost when he can prance around a tournament as the world number one. And when he takes on, when he gets to Alcaraz in the final, he's meeting him as an equal in his own mind or an equal in one way. or a better, not just an equal, like, okay, you win our head-to-heads, but I am so consistent and I'm such a machine. There's a reason I'm number one. So there's a pretty good chance I'm going to show up here and I'm going to be pretty good.

19:10I think it gives him a real boost and it's important to him. And I think that's great. And I love that he's told us that. I had the same fear as you that he was going to, I know you asked him about it yesterday. impress and look I totally understand why tennis players do this they're not obliged to to tell us the truth when we ask them questions especially not if they think it's going to be to the detriment of their careers or handing an advantage to an opponent or showing a chink of vulnerability whatever but I still you know as a journalist and broadcaster I freaking hate it when you ask them to talk about something you know they care about and they're like I don't care about that I'm above it like come on um and we like it's such a gift for us this narrative that we're now going to have throughout the clay court season of Alcaraz and Sinner tussling over the world number one position potentially the scenario of them they could hand it back and forth before before the French Open like I'm so into that narrative I'm really I'm really relieved that Yannick Sinner didn't kind of gaslight me about it with his answer to you like he said yeah I'm into it too like I'm I I want this I was fully prepared to like write a version of write the sentences that I just recited about like yeah this is what they say but don't believe it because they all just they all just say that and like I was gonna have to write around his like dry bland quotes and he He was like, no, I know the scenario.

20:46I've done the math. I get it. I'm going to win tomorrow. And he won 2 ,000 points in January in Australia. But I just won 2 ,000 points. I'm going to win 2 ,000 points now. And I'm going to be breathing down his neck. And it's great because Alcaraz is going to see that and respond to it and be like, oh, well, wait a minute. What do you mean I can't gain any points? I'm being punished because I won all these tournaments last year. I mean, obviously he knows the rules, but like, you know, so what does he do? Like, is he going to play? I mean, the only place he can really pick up points is Madrid.

21:27You know, so is he going to play both Madrid and Rome now in order to do that? I mean, that's kind of like a dangerous thing to do. I hope not. I mean, if you play Madrid, you've got to drop Barcelona. surely. Just to fill everybody in on the situation, Sinner can get number one as soon as Monte Carlo. Like he could get it. He could get it by reaching the Monte Carlo semifinals. It depends what Alcaraz does. He's defending in Monte Carlo. But the gap currently is 1 ,190 points. But remember, until Rome, everything for Sinner is upside, whereas the only place Alcaraz can gain is Barcelona. and that's not much because he lost in the final in Barcelona last year unless he plays Madrid, which he skipped last year, but that would mean an incredibly packed schedule ahead of a Grand Slam that he really would quite like to win, I think, and not be going into on his last legs.

22:28And a Grand Slam where, or any Grand Slam, let's remember whether you're one or two, like the difference between two and three for the slam is big in terms of the draw. the difference between one and two in terms of the draw is actually nothing. So David, how do you think he sees it?

22:46David Law: Well, I just think he sees himself as a history maker and he's just made history by winning the career slam younger than anybody else has ever won it. And what's the next historical thing he could do? Perhaps win the Canada Grand Slam. I think that that is not beyond him. I still think it's probably given the way Sinner's playing and the way one or two others are likely to play, it's a big ask but that's what I think is going to drive Carlos Alcrest not getting the number one back or holding on to it I think he'd like to, sure but to him it's about doing things that people have never done before, I think now and he wants to win every grand time he plays and I think that really the loss in Miami, given the way he was looking, the way he was looking irritated and a bit knackered and he was being a bit silly, you know, and he was sort of blaming the sort of gods of tennis for making everybody play like Federer against him and all this sort of stuff.

23:54David Law: He needs a break. He needs a break. Have you seen his Instagram, David? He's had a break. He's been jumping off yachts. Perfect. because I think he wants to get to Ronan Garros and win that thing again and he wants to right the world by winning Wimbledon again because he didn't win it last time I just think that this is we're already at that stage of Carlos Alcaraz's career I think the sort of stage that most players get to when they've won 18 slams and are in their mid-30s I think he's already on that mindset of I need to maximize every chance I get at the Grand Slams I agree I just think it's going to get on his nerves if he shows up somewhere and he looks at the board and he sees himself at the bottom of the draw and he's like I mean he'll laugh about it he has laughed about it, he laughs about everything you know, pretty much but like but it's just you know As the better Matt would say, well, it's funny, right?

25:06Like, you know, it's funny and funny is good and funny is a good element here. And it also just like, it forces him to have the conversation. And because he's Spanish, he's going to want to play, he loves to play Barcelona, right? I would love to play in my home country too. and he's going to want to play in Madrid, but he's a defending champion in Rome and everybody loves Rome. So, like, you know, like it's... I just think Madrid and Rome is not sensible. I don't like... They've made it not sensible for top players. Like, it's really sad what they've... I mean, it was always a big ask doing Madrid and Rome back-to-back, but they've now made it, like, a stupid ask to even play Madrid and Rome back-to-back, which I think is a real shame.

26:00We've just got Matt Roberts in, by the way. He just can't stay away. He's got no voice, but he is in the chat. And he's here to bring us Spanish news. He said Alcraz's coach, Sammy Lopez, told Eurosport that Alcraz would have skipped Monte Carlo if they hadn't lost so early in Miami. so Matt thinks his clay schedule is going to be dictated by how he performs which makes sense right if he if he loses early Monte Carlo maybe Madrid comes back into play alongside Barcelona but then also kind of your plan A if you're Carlos Alcarez is to assume you're winning everything right like he must have a default schedule in mind, assuming he's at the very least reaching the final of everything, surely.

26:57Right. And, I mean, by the same token, like, we know this is important to Sinner because he's said it. So what does he do? You just talk about, like, Madrid and Rome. Like, he can't skip Rome. Like, he's Italian. Like, he can't, like, and, you know. And Rome's the one that's most similar to Paris. I just feel like Rome is the one that no one's going to skip. Right, you don't want to skip that. And so, you know, is he going to skip Madrid? Well, not if it's his last chance, clearly, as he said. Maybe not if it's his last chance to pick up points, right? Like, you know. Yeah, I mean, if Alcraz doesn't play Madrid, he doesn't get the cake because his birthday falls during Madrid but it also means that Madrid get to avoid misogynistic cake drama No, time out No, Madrid final is May 4th Y Cinco de Mayo Good That was Matt Roberts-esque knowledge, Matt That was very good It's also knowledge of my plane reservations Right, basically My flight reservation.

28:13That's weird. I'm not sure I know this off the top of my head unless I'm deeply familiar with what's happening the first weekend of May in terms of my own travel schedule. I think if Alcaraz plays Madrid, they will just give him a preemptive cake because they want to be the tournament where Alcaraz has his birthday, right? I hate that. I think they'll find a way to give him some cake. That's my big prediction for the clay court season. and more to come in part three when we look ahead to the clay. Just before we move on, David, to talk about the women's, last time we potted, you and I, Artifis was still in the tournament.

28:54He had just won that extraordinary match against Tommy Paul, saving all those match points. You predicted that he would lose to Yuri Lehechka in the next round, that he wouldn't have any gas left in the tank. that take aged absolutely beautifully. He seemed to have minus gas left in the tank, lost two and two to Le Hetschke. Was that a bit disappointing, that performance? It was worse than I expected. Understandable, but it was a bit of a tough scene, wasn't it?

29:25David Law: Yeah, I mean, I think you also want to give some credit to Le Hetschke because he was brilliant and he has played a fantastic tournament. And I think I saw Lehechka play against Feese earlier this season and lose in straight sets. But you can see why he can cause him problems. He's got a really good backhand. His forehand lost when it went walkabout in the final. And he just got Feese into loads and loads of backhand to backhand exchanges. And his own backhand doesn't break down. And Feese just was in this struggle, this internal struggle of I'm feeling tired. I've got nothing in the tank, nothing's going right.

30:04David Law: And he just wanted to whinge, frankly, and he just wanted to complain to, I mean, he kind of reminded me of my son, and my son's sort of 14, you know, when he's tried hard yesterday and he doesn't really want to do it today. And I think that that is going to be the next step for him because that's a couple of times now in the last few weeks that he's kind of put up a no-show against players who played very well in Lehechka and Zverev. I don't want to say that if Feast has everything on his racket, I don't think he does. I mean, sometimes he's going to lose because other people are good, and that's fine.

30:43David Law: But those performances were not the level. And listen, I think it's also perfectly okay for that to happen just at the moment because he's so new off a comeback and he's had so many months out. I think it's okay that he puts up a dog shit performance like that, quite honestly, but not that it would keep happening. For now. For now. Yeah, exactly. And Goran knows that. What was our headline for the last show? Like, you know, or recent, you know, like why Arthrefez can be the next guy. Like, if you're going to be one of the guys, you don't, you're not doing that. No. And so my view would be that Goran needs to probably have a pretty serious conversation with him and show him videos of those matches and why they went wrong and why they're not acceptable.

31:37David Law: Because, OK, like you can lose to Le Hetschka, but you can't lose like that. You've got to be able to dig in and find something. And listen, it's perfectly fair enough to say, listen, he's so new back on the circuit. He hasn't got any tennis in his legs, any stamina in his legs, any endurance. He's already way overperformed what I thought he would have done by now. Way. I thought he might have won a couple of matches a tournament. And he's reached semifinals and quarterfinals of the Sunshine Double. He's reached the final of another 500. I mean, that's astonishing. to me that he's managed to do that and it bodes brilliantly he's another one who's gonna have to schedule himself carefully but i do think you know you've got it you've got to find answers to be more competitive in a semi-final than he did in that particular match the exchange i had with him after the la hechka match when um again it was like truth serum seemingly coming out.

32:47I don't know what was in the water in Miami that made people tell the truth. But because, you know, I was... My immediate thought was, like, you didn't... It was... You didn't... Sorry, you're right, in demand. My original thought... You're making me feel very unpopular, Matt. Sorry, sorry. Yeah, midday. Yeah, this is... My phone never rings. Nobody... Who does phone calls? Nobody calls me. If I ever call Catherine and Matt, they just panic. I don't ever get any calls. Yeah, I look at the phone, I'm like... But it's like, no, but, you know, people ask me, like, where do you get your stories? And I say, like, will people tell them to me?

33:26Like, you know... Hang on, Matt, if people are ringing to give you stories, take the call, let's get them live on air. Well, hopefully we'll get them back. But to get back to Feast, and I do apologise for those interruptions, at some point I'll figure out how to turn off the WhatsApp ringer on my computer, which is another thing. But anyway, you know, I said, are you a little worried about, you got some work to do. You know, you played a hard match against Tommy Paul the other night. I get it. It was three hours. It was super physical. But, you know, you want to win Grand Slams. You got to play a three-hour hard physical match and come back two days later and do it again and then do it again, maybe do it seven times, you know, in order to win a title.

34:18So, and he said, he was like, look, I actually, I felt fine physically today. He's like, the big thing I have to work on is like, I just wasn't mentally there. I was really mentally worn out. And I'm not sure why he's like, but that, and that's something that I got to talk about with my team and figure out how I get through a match like that and then get my head back in shape to be completely locked in for the next match. Now, it probably contributed to him that he might have been a little tired as well and hasn't done that. But that's where what you talk about, David, where you talk about him being away for so long and, and, you know, that it's not just the physical fitness and it's not just getting the tennis in your legs, but it's just also being able to deal with the grind, you know, the grind of going deep in a tournament and like, okay, hell of a match, save four match points means nothing when I take the court two days from now.

35:23You know, I don't get a bone. I don't get, I don't get a lead in the next match, especially against someone like Lehechka, who was playing the best tennis of his life. Because he has been very focused for several months about trying to not just play consistently, but to practice more consistently. He was so good, Lehechka. He hadn't dropped serve coming into the final. And then Yannick Sinner breaks him in his second service game. You could write the script, couldn't you? I think Matt made a joke in our WhatsApp group. He said, I've just read you coming back from La Manga, checking back in on the tennis world, saying I've just seen that Le Hetchka hasn't dropped served all tournament.

36:09He's going to get broken by Sinner in the first game, isn't he? And OK, it wasn't the first game, but it was, you know, kind of followed that script. And his forehand fell apart a little bit in that final. And that's not happening in a vacuum. That is the pressure that Yannick Sinner was putting on his forehand, him feeling like he had to go for it and go for it, go for it. If you drop it remotely short or put a bit more cover on it to give yourself that safety, then you're just going to get punished. But up to 14 in the world now, Lehechka, a career high and not somebody that anyone is going to want to face, I don't think.

36:50So fantastic fortnight for him. The doubles in Miami was won by Simone Bilelli and Andrea Vavasori, the only champions not to have completed the sunshine double. Just the sunshine single. Just the sunshine single for Bilelli and Vavasori. They beat Harry Heliovara and Henry Patton 6-4, 6-2. Okay, that's it for part one. In part two, we'll move on to talk about the women.

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39:16OK, part two of today's tennis podcast and our second double, sunshine double. If you're doing the tennis podcast double drinking game, then you're probably having a good time by now. Arena Sabalenka, 6-2, 4-6, 6-3 in the final against Coco Goth. Lovely Ash featuring in the trophy ceremony. I love a dog in a trophy ceremony big sucker for that big fan of Ash Irina Sabalenka now 26-1 for the season her rankings lead at the top over Elena Rabatkin in the number 2 position is 2 ,917 points and that is with only I say only that is with only one Grand Slam title to her name David so I ask you the same question that I asked you about Yannick Sinner is Irina Sabalenka terrifyingly getting better?

40:18David Law: I do think she's adding a little more to her game, generally speaking, but I also think because she's under such threat at the moment, particularly from Elena Rivacchina, that I think that she probably is getting better. I think when other people play better and bring more to the table, if you're going to win, you've got to respond and you've got to be better. I think it's pretty significant that she's now beaten Rybakina back to back not necessarily to Rybakina because I think she's going to respond but I think for Sabalenka she kind of needed this little run you know she's had the number next to her name for a long time now and yet has not dominated when it's really mattered at the Grand Slam she has won one, she's been incredibly consistent getting to the finals now she's having a little period where she feels like the one again and um yeah doing them both i think is big and beating well certainly two of her main contemporaries along the way uh is is huge good good final i thought it's a really really enjoyable final i i was pleased to see koko goff bringing it the way she did um and because it would have been very easy i think after that first set for it not to have been competitive.

41:40Yeah, Matt, I don't know what you think. I think it was massive that she beat Coco Gauff and she beat Coco Gauff in a final and she did it in a match that Coco Gauff managed to turn into the kind of match that she wanted after that first set. The second set was just Tex but Gauff. It was not quite the French Open final all over again with all the chaos of that, But she turned it into the Coco Goff scrap, didn't she? And after that second set, I was potentially giving the edge to Coco Goff because of what I've seen in the past in matches like that between those two. And I found it really significant that Savalenka found a way through that and found a way through the kind of match that she doesn't enjoy.

42:32You know, Koko Gough has a way of turning matches into the sort of situations that she's just not not here for, you know. And I thought it was tremendous. And what you thought watching watching in the stadium. Yeah, I thought that she's I mean, to David's point that Sabalenka is getting better. I mean, yes, I think the tennis is definitely improving. And I think the stats and the results sort of bear that out, especially this year. I mean, she's lost one match. Um, but, you know, she's just so good at handling, handling pressure now, um, and handling difficulty. And I don't want to say that was like a hostile environment because it wasn't necessarily hostile, but like, but it was a big crowd, 45 minutes from where Coco lives.

43:27that was, you know, in her corner and was loud and getting louder as soon as Coco gave her reason for them to get loud. And that was something that, you know, that made Arena crumble a couple of years, a few years ago. Might have made her crumble in Paris because I think that was a very partisan crowd for Goff as well. Goff's very popular in Paris. I mean, Goff's popular in most places. But, you know, she really sort of just, like, went off court after losing her serve and came back and, you know, deep breath and was like, okay, third set, let's do this. I know how to do this. It's really interesting, one of the things she said, I think it was after the semifinal about how she deals with key moments.

44:25And she said, well, the trick with me was I was getting to the point where I don't really think there are key moments anymore. It's not like I want to play differently or play better or pump up the volume or whatever expression you want to use when it's four all, 30 all, and she's serving, or another pressure moment, a tiebreaker. She's like, I have a game plan. I have a strategy. I have abilities. I just need to execute those things just like I do when it's 15 all in the first game. It's like, that's all it is. Yeah, it sounds so simple. It's like completely impossible to do unless you practice it a lot.

45:12And if that's your goal and you have techniques to deal with it, I mean, it can be a pretty good, pretty good superpower. I mean, much and much, much different from what Rebecca said, which was like how her journey has been, you know, her team telling her that, like, in the key moment, she's got to trust herself and really go for it. And, you know, that's one way. It's obviously given her a tremendous amount of success. But it's not the way, it's not the formula that Sabalenka has used. And I think that's why she's, that's why I would say she's absolutely getting better. She's so underrated, I think, as a tactician, Sabalenka.

45:58Like, I felt like there was a notable sort of increase in her use of angles in this match to get Coco Gough, you know, out of position, which is damn difficult to do, to try and she was like, I'm not going to let her retrieve all of my shots that should be winners. She's like, I don't need to hit everything as hard as I can. I can focus on just getting things out of her wingspan. And she changed up her return position, I think, very effectively over the course of this match. Like, I know you hear this a lot with, I mean, I suppose you get it in all sporting analysis, right? where the constant narrative about somebody is that they're underrated and it's like, well, if everybody's always talking about them being underrated, they're actually just being rated, aren't they?

46:49And I think Sabalenka is sufficiently rated, but I think there are elements of her game that are underrated because the power is just so kind of eclipsing of everything else. But there's a lot to eclipse, and I feel like it's those elements of the game that are improving. She just feels like she's always got somewhere she can go or always got something she can fall back on now in her game, David.

47:21David Law: Yeah, a couple of years ago, I would not have expected to have seen this type of touch and, as you say, kind of reactions to what the opponent is doing, like having an answer that isn't just blast the ball. And she's so good at reacting now to what an opponent does. And it's pretty mind-boggling to me because I thought she was just the absolute prototype ball basher for so many years. And there's so much more to her than that. I don't even think she was expecting to find out that she'd got all this ability. I'm still waiting for a chance. I'd like to do it at the French Open, is to ask her the moment that she realised, maybe a little bit like how Yannick Sinner said he needed to add variety at the US Open, what was the moment?

48:15David Law: Was there a sort of line in the sand, I need to be more than what I am? Because, honestly, she sometimes just throws this stuff in aggressively as well. Sometimes it's reactive because she's forced into positions where just hitting it as hard as she can isn't going to do. But also sometimes she aggressively plays angles, as you say, and drop shots and suddenly throws in a forehand slice down the middle of the court. Why are you doing that? Well, I think there's a reason. She's thought it through. She's feeling what's right in the moment. But there must have become a point where she decided to add and change.

48:55David Law: And we do so much talking about the things that Iger Svantec has tried to add over the last year. And actually, I think Sabalenka's done that far more fluidly, you know, without all the upset. She's not questioning herself. Yeah, and this attribute of adjusting to what's coming at you, that is exactly what we're talking about, Shantek, not having, right? They've gone in completely opposite directions in that regard. The soft curling forehands that were breaking the sidelines in the final, I'd never seen her use those so consistently and effectively. and it was kind of genius because like you could you could see you could imagine her and her team sitting around and like watching old matches and seeing Coco just like chase down the balls in the corner and her struggling to hit it through and get it behind Coco and then somebody maybe arena maybe a coach whoever but whatever they all agreed that like well why don't we make her run diagonally because Coco is so fast running sideways and she's so fat at getting drop shots.

50:20It's a little harder, you know, like running diagonally is a little bit of a different skill. Um, and you know, especially when you're not used to it and you could see like there was just no way, you know, golf could get those balls and they were really high percentage shots because she was putting so much spin on them. I mean, they're high percentage shots for her. They wouldn't be high percentage shots for, for mortal. Um, but like for her, she just so easily was just like, okay, I know this is a short ball and you think I'm going to try and bash this through the back of the court, but like, no, I'm just going to curl it.

50:56And I'm going to find, I, it was like when Djokovic would find the spot that like on the court and he still does it that like nobody really thinks about like that and yeah it was i thought that was really really impressive yeah i'm kind of always particularly impressed when like really alpha power players are prepared to deploy plans b c and d like i i've heard so many times in press conferences those sorts of players be like i'm just going to focus on i'm just going to focus on me you know like my My game, it's an aggressive dictating game and any wavering from that is kind of an admission that it's not good enough.

51:45You know, this kind of really, I don't know, like I feel like I've heard that a lot from that kind of a player. And it's not an admission that you're not good enough. Like tennis is a two person sport. Your ball is literally being delivered to you by by someone down down the other end.

52:16She Arena Sabalenka, David, wants the French Open. Right. It feels like that's the I mean, I know she wants Wimbledon, too, but given what happened in last year's French Open final, given the kind of. I think in Irina Sabalenka's mind there are French Opens that she should have won and didn't I think she feels like she's overdue a French Open so she's for her this is she needs to continue I mean obviously but she needs to continue this into the clay court season she needs to make sure this isn't peaking at the wrong time I suppose

52:57David Law: I think Irina Sabalenka's general approach to the sport is that whenever she plays, she needs to be at a peak she's now scheduling herself really carefully by not overplaying she's prepared to pull out of the Middle East tournament she pulled out of some in America last summer and I like that I like the fact that she's absolutely wanting to peak at the biggest tournaments but I just feel as though that every time she goes out, she thinks she can dominate and she thinks she will win. That if she plays her best tennis, wherever it is, she expects to win, which I love. I think that's a fantastic quality and kind of position to have when you're the world number one.

53:43David Law: I think that's really cool. It's quite interesting, though, going into the clay season and thinking of her at Roland Garros because I think she's absolutely a contender for the title. and probably I'd say she was maybe the favourite overall, but I really don't think it's anything like it is anywhere else. Every other tournament I really feel like she's the one to beat and I don't feel like that going into clay. I feel like she's one of three or four, but I still would never want to count out Iga Svantec. I think it's Koko Goff's best surface. I think I've had enough of writing off Elena Rebacca now.

54:26And so, you know... Just throw Jessica Begula in there.

54:31David Law: Absolutely. You were awesome. But I just feel like it's just so... Every year the clay court season feels like it's the perfect season in as much as there's a good run-up, there's a good lead-up, there's big tournaments, there's not just been a grand slam the way there is on the grass that you kind of get in that out of your shoes. People aren't exhausted the way they are in the summer. This is the one that narrative-wise is perfection, this change of surface. And there are so many storylines. And I think the fact that Sabalenka hasn't won the French Open yet is a glorious thing going into it, given how well she's playing.

55:16Mm. Coco Gauff hitting some form at just the right time. I thought there were, I mean, obviously just the fact of reaching a final feels like a massive breakthrough for Coco Gauff in the context of the last few weeks and months and this project she's working on with the technical changes with Gavin McMillan. But I thought there were signs of improvement on the serve. I thought there were definite signs of improvement on the forehand And I kind of judge Koko Goff's foreman by how much my heart is in her mouth when I see her sort of doing the backswing about to hit it. And I felt like that that measure was a little lower over the course of over the course of this fortnight.

56:03I feel like I feel like this might be the start of something for Koko Goff. And it really struck me how I mean, I know she, you know, as you said, she lives 45 minutes down down the road. It's her home tournament. You'd expect her to be comfortable and relaxed. But equally, she'd never reached a quarterfinal there before. Like that hasn't been the case in the past necessarily in terms of results. I was so struck by how chilled and happy she seemed in all the interviews. She did that interview where she, I mean, I know she just loves any question about heated rivalry. But like she was, I don't know, like she was just by leaning into everything, prepared to like take take the bait.

56:49You know, she she gave she gave a bit. There was a clippable stuff from from Coco Goff this week that I they really enjoyed. And I don't know, I feel if I'm buying stocks and shares in tennis players, I'm buying Coco Goff right now. How do you feel? I mean, I feel the way, you know, the better Matt feels about her is that like we always mistake, you know, that she's never as high as you think, never as low as you think she is and how low, low she is. And I mean, what she had been saying is and was very honest about was like, this was a freebie for me. Like my team didn't want me to play, but like I was at home and there was a tournament going on 45 minutes from my house.

57:38Like, what's the big deal? I rock up. I'll play some tennis. If I lose, I'll come back home and make some dinner. And like, you know, it's it was fine. I mean, this is a terrible surface for her. I mean, it's really fast. And so, you know, she had zero expectations. Her goal was to win, you know, that second set in her first match, basically. And, like, you know, after that, like, she was just sort of, you know, match by match, whatever. And if I lose, like I said, I go home and make some dinner. it won't be it's not going to be like that the rest of the way she knows that she did well as long as going on to clay there will be bigger expectations she will feel that the trick for her mentally is going to be can she keep the joy and keep the sort of light feeling about this because she's pretty honest about I think with the serve and everything the game had really started to wear on her the last few months.

58:50I think it felt a little bit like a job and a burden, and she wasn't seeing progress necessarily. But, I mean, tennis is one of those sports where you do work in October, and sometimes you don't see the payoff until May. But you have to tell yourself. You have to reassure yourself that it's worth it and it will come eventually. So I think that's sort of where she is as she's heading into the clay. I think it's great. Yeah, I think, you know, how could it not be anything but positive for her to make a final for the first time since China and to feel good about doing it? But the thing I noticed about her serve is that she had more options.

59:46She was using more options. I mean, she all of a sudden seems to have a nasty kick serve out wide. That was, I mean, Sabalenka had no answer for it. And she was hitting the line on it repeatedly. and it's clearly a much safer, it's a safer serve if you're putting a lot of spin on it, just keeping her chin up more, you're staying higher. Those are sort of obvious things that even a kind of technical dummy like me can notice when she's not putting the ball in the middle of the net on her serve. So I think that's great. And on her forehand, the big thing, even against Sabalenka, is she's not hitting what I think is just a, you know, and we talked about this in Australia, I think, about that awkward forehand.

1:00:37She hits off her back foot that she sort of loops back. It's kind of like this flamingo motion. I hate comparing people to animals, but it's sort of like their nickname. It's sort of like this flamingo jump that she makes into it. And it just looks weird, and it often creates like an easy put-away shot because it loops high, and the opponent now knows just step in and hit it. She just doesn't get away with it anymore. And she was doing this thing with her knees this week, that forehand she's hitting, like leaning forward and low on her knees. It's kind of a defensive shot. It's a bit of a short hop.

1:01:22it was really effective and I hadn't seen that in a while and I think that's that moving forward into the shot instead of moving backwards seems to be a real focus for her as it should be And she she's got a dilemma now. She's got a baseball cap dilemma because she has said she doesn't like the baseball cap. Matt Futterman has also told her he doesn't like the baseball cap. But she's played really well wearing the baseball cap. I have to interrupt you right there and just say, like, I really regret saying that. That was like a bad move by me. It was wrong. I shouldn't be commenting on people's wardrobe choices or appearances, especially not young women.

1:02:06And so, like, I'd like to have that one back. I felt that way, you know, pretty soon after and heard about it from one of my adult daughters and, you know, made sure the next day when I saw. we were walking in the hallway and I saw Coco and I was like, Hey Coco, I'm really sorry about saying that yesterday. And she was, I mean, she was like, what are you talking about? Like, you know, she was like, she was like, it was funny. And she had just come off the tennis channel set where they were Steve Weissman and Chris Eubanks were giving her a hard time about it. So, and then she came right into press and that's sort of how it came about.

1:02:48That sounds like I'm making an excuse, but you know, She was generous and accepted the apology, thought it was kind of silly, but it wasn't silly. It was important to me that I say that. And she explained that it was all about, as a lot of people and a lot of women can relate to, she was all about her hair, which she said had been a mess lately. And she was just feeling like she didn't want to manage her hair. And so she just put a hat on, which I think a lot of men and a lot of women have resorted to that. Hard relate. Yeah. But yeah, she doesn't like it. She said she didn't like the way she looks in the hat.

1:03:34And I don't think you're going to see it. It was a real lesson or a reminder to me to be more Coco Gough because it reminded me that someone slid into our DMs. I think it was, in fact, I know it was during Roland Garros last year. Somebody who's generally lovely, like I can't remember who it was, but somebody who's generally lovely and positive comments positively on our Instagram stories. But I posted a picture of it was us at dinner and I was wearing a baseball cap. And somebody commented, love this pic, but Catherine ditched the hat. And I was not Coco Goff gracious about it. I was sass-tastic about it, and I don't think that person has messaged us since.

1:04:22Anyway, is Clay Goff's best surface? Just picking up on you saying, you know, Miami actually doesn't suit her at all. Are we going in now to the most... I mean, obviously she's about to defend, well, not about to, she will soon be defending a French Open title, but is this the most important part of Coco Gauff's season coming up, David?

1:04:48David Law: I do think, put it this way, I think in years to come, we will look back on it as her best surface, because I think she's got everything she needs. I think it's just sad in a way that there's not a bit more of it. You know, there's a, obviously you've got a couple of great 1 ,000 events, but it's all so congested. It's like, can you play all that lot? And Madrid also doesn't feel like quite such a... It doesn't feel like Monte Carlo does, for instance. And obviously Stuttgart's a brilliant tournament, but that's indoor clay. I just think it highlights her movements. It gives her a bit more time on the forehand.

1:05:25David Law: She's able to use the spin. I'm very interested now to see how well this kick serve that Matt references serves her on clay, because there it should really take off, I would have thought. I just feel like the problem she's always had until the last year is she always would run into Iguys Viontek, who was the best in the world on clay and one of the best I think we've seen really on clay. And even she couldn't cope with that. But recently she has been able to. And I just feel like her game is perfectly set up for the surface. and yeah, love watching her play on it. In the doubles, pour one out if you're doing the drinking game, Katerina Siniarkova and Taylor Townsend completed their sunshine double.

1:06:19They beat Sara Rani and Jasmine Paolini 7-6, 6-1 in a final that was delayed, interrupted by rain, 5-4 in the first set. The rain came, they had a three-hour delay, and the match was then resumed on the grandstand court. The match was moved from the main stadium court to grandstand court because of that delay so that the men's singles final could start on time, which is a decision I understand in the circumstances, but it is bad optically to be moving a women's doubles match midway through to make way for men's singles. I feel like, you know, given the forecast, perhaps that scenario could have been foreseen and prevented.

1:07:13I don't know. Taylor Townsend didn't seem too bothered about it. They were chuffed to bits with their doubles, Sunshine Double. They're the first women's doubles team to do the double. People are getting very drunk. to do the double since, wait for it, Irina Sabalenka and Elisa Mertens in 2019. So Irina Sabalenka has now done the Sunshine Double in singles and doubles. People are getting very, very drunk now. And just a final nail in the coffin for people's sobriety. This is the first triple-double since 2016, which is also the last year that the double-sunshine double was done by Novak Djokovic and Irina Sabalenka.

1:08:12It was Nikola Mahou and Pierre-Hug Hebert that won the men's doubles title in India Miles and Miami in 2016. but there was very nearly a quadruple Sunshine Double in 2016 as well because Bethany Matic Sands won both doubles titles but it was with different partners. So that's a Sunshine 3.5, triple and a half? Yeah. Yeah. We need Catherine to spend more time in America because you're stumbling a little bit over the phrase triple-double which is like such a standard phrase in American sports because in basketball, a triple-double, you know, like...

1:08:56David Law: What's a triple-double? It's points, assists, and rebounds, isn't it? There you go. It's as if you've got 10 of each of them in basketball. I mean, it's a jump pass in figure skating. Yeah, if you get the double digits in each of those, that's a triple-double, and it's like a measure of like true greatness and all-around play. And, you know, LeBron James has like, you know, 10 ,000 triple doubles or something like that. So, yeah, it's funny to see it adapted to tennis. Adapted badly by me to tennis. No, yeah. You see you struggle with it a little bit. Right, yeah. It's a triple-double, sure, you know.

1:09:38There it is. Okay. Well, congratulations to all winners of the triple-double. That is it for part two. In part three, we will talk about some interesting news from the tennis world and from the coaching carousel.

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1:11:53So welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast. Some news from the tennis world. Let's start with the WTA finals, which, as reported by Ben Rothenberg in his substack Bounces, is set to leave Saudi Arabia after this year's edition. They signed a three-year contract to host the WTA finals three years ago. So this is the natural end of that contract. However, it does look like Saudi Arabia do not wish to renew that contract or certainly the two parties don't wish to renew that contract. Charlotte, North Carolina, Ben Rothenberg reports, is one of the cities reported to be interested in bidding.

1:12:43This is a complicated one because, you know, I rejoice at the prospect of these WTA finals not being held in Saudi Arabia. I think it's been a tremendous tragedy, really, to see the finals being held there for the last three years. But it also confirms something which I kind of always suspected, which was that Saudi Arabia and the Public Investment Fund always were using the WTA as a stepping stone, as a badge of respectability in order to get what they or in part in order to get what they really wanted, which was a permanent fixture on the ATP calendar. It feels like they've used the WTA for that kind of official badge of honour and now they're assured of getting the ATP Masters 1000 event, which we know that they are, we just don't quite know when it's going to be in the calendar.

1:13:49They're like, OK, that served its purpose, let's move on now and forget women's tennis. Maybe not, but there we go. What do you think about Charlotte, North Carolina, Matt, as a potential host city? Yeah, vibrant tennis scene there. And, you know, big city, love sports. I think it's, you know, they've done some exhibitions there that have been very well attended. so you know that could be that could be a great possibility you know I I guess my big concern is like you know once again they're going to take this tournament and they're going to put it indoors and there's all these places where you could put it outdoors and I realize why they do that and they have to do that but look I'm always going to want to be I'm always going to want to be You and I were very aligned on this, Matt.

1:14:49I'm always going to want to be back outside in Guadalajara. And until I see... You and none of the players. Right. Until I see anything close to the enthusiasm and the magic that they had there, I think it will come up slightly short. If it is going to continue to be indoors, You know, there was a lot of interest from the Czechs a few years ago. It'd be interesting to see if they come back in. I mean, if ever there was a country that would support, that clearly supports women's tennis, it's the Czechs. So, you know, would they come back in? You know, and I just think about it in terms of the travel schedule of leaving North America, going to the Far East, and then coming back to North America.

1:15:48It's a little awkward, especially if you have all these European players. So we'll see. But Charlotte, I can drum up a lot of enthusiasm for a lot of different kinds of sports. So if it is there and the arena is managed properly, then by all means, I think they'd be successful. It does feel like this event, like I know the point of the event is to move around and be a bit of a roadshow for elite tennis, both on the men's and women's side. It does feel like for a while, at least, this tournament needs to find a home and establish itself there for, you know, like minimum five years. I think like that's what this that's what this event needs.

1:16:45I mean, I I fear for where it'll end up because recent history has proven that the WTA have just gone with the biggest check. But maybe the Mercedes deal is sufficiently changed things for the WTA. I do get the impression that that Mercedes sponsorship deal has put the WTA in rather a stronger bargaining position in a number of negotiations. And maybe it means they don't just have to go to whoever's waiving the very biggest check and forsake all other considerations. We will see. We've had the news this week. Fairly surprise news, I would say. I was certainly surprised by it that Amanda Nisamova has split from her coach of a couple of years, Rick Vlieshawers, with whom she's obviously had tremendous amount of success, number of titles, two Grand Slam finals.

1:17:40Of course, last year she did a very warm goodbye Instagram post to Rick Vleeshowers this week. My instant reaction, and it chimed with a lot of other people's reactions I was interested to see, was, oh, she's making a play for Winforsett or has already made a play for Winforsett, who has obviously suddenly come onto the market with Igor Shontek being free. David, you didn't have that reaction? Or were you surprised that I had that reaction?

1:18:19David Law: No, I can definitely see why you would have it, because he is high profile. He has got a number of people over the line to Grand Slam titles, which is what she's obviously looking for. I mean, the biggest reaction I had was one of shock like you, that she was actually separating from Vlisar's because it seemed like that was going really well. I know she's had a bit of a rocky start to 2026, but let's not forget, it's not long ago, she was in back-to-back Grand Slam finals and having a great year. And the vibe seemed really good. So, listen, maybe what you're saying is it, that she's seen Fissette come on the market and she's thought, OK, I'm going to move quickly and go sort this out.

1:19:05David Law: I mean, maybe that is what's happening. I have no idea. But my main reaction was one of surprise. Unless there's been some sort of breakdown in relations there, I think you've got a good thing going there, really, I would have thought, and it should have carried on. Just to bring you Matt Roberts' reaction from the chat here, because what is an Amanda Onisimova segment without the input of Matt Roberts? He said that he did not see it coming. He said maybe Vlis Havis has been the perfect guy for her transition back to playing on tour again and now someone else can come in and push her on even more.

1:19:48Matt, we do have a pretty fascinating and unique situation right now where two of the world's very top tennis players, Amanda Nisamova and Aniga Svjantek, are without a coach and we presume actively looking or if not having secured their new coach without having told us about it. And we have someone who is considered to be one of the world's best tennis coaches on the market and we also presume actively looking for a new client. It's frustrating that we'll kind of never know all the sliding into DMs and so on that's going on behind the scenes, all the machinations of this. But I imagine there's quite a lot of machinations going down right now.

1:20:42Yeah, I think any time Wimphacet is available, there are machinations that go down. There are even times that machinations go down when he's not available, you know, like, which... Is he that much in demand, Matt? Oh, yeah, absolutely. that him coming back on the market, we don't know if this is what's going on with Anisimova, but is it plausible to think that someone like Anisimova would ditch her coach with whom she's had a lot of success because someone like Fissett has come on the market and you think, I've got to go for this. I've got to go for this now. I mean, I don't think it would have happened if Amanda Anisimova had made another Grand Slam final and had exhibited the form in the first three months of this year that she exhibited from June on last year.

1:21:41But she hasn't had those results, and they've been frustrating. And I do also think in her most recent losses, she was not just beaten. She was also kind of exposed in pretty substantial ways. And, you know, you could see her frustration. And I think she's aware that, like, she needs more. She's going to need more if she's going to match what she did last year. And she doesn't want to just match what she did last year. She really, like, she thinks she should win one more match. and she has every right to believe that she should win one more match. And she knows these guys well enough now that what messages that they're delivering for her.

1:22:35And it goes back to the old John Kerry line about when you're wrong, the trick is to get right as soon as possible, right? Like, you know, there's no use. Do you feel like she has been wrong? Well, just I think she thinks that her results have not been what she expects of herself and what she expected of herself this year. I think she would have expected to have won something, you know, big at this point. and be on that right track. And I do think also her main person remains Shadi Soleimani. And Shadi was put into this team after those guys were involved. And she's become the sort of main person.

1:23:46So it might be someone who works more effectively with her. And she was also a collegiate tennis player. Like, you know, she's different from, like, say, Coco Gauff's physio and body person who, you know, is not an accomplished tennis player. Like, she knows the game well. so there's all sorts of dynamics within these teams that everybody sort of has to be clicking on the same page. Yeah, I'm pretty fascinated about who, well, Anna Simova and Shiontek, but yeah, watching that space very, very closely and I'm sure updates to come on future tennis podcasts. In terms of this week, the WTA has a 500 event in Charleston, the Charleston Open.

1:24:44Top two seeds are Jessica Begula and Ekaterina Alexandrova. Anissa Mova was due to play Charleston but has pulled out of that event. The WTA also has a 250 in Bogota where the top seeds are Marie Brzkova and Jessica Boutas-Monero. The ATP has two 50s in Houston, top seeds Shelton and Tiafoe and Morocco, top seeds Darderi and Greeksport and in Bucharest where the top seeds are Gabriel Diallo and Adrian Manorino. Very quick, I feel like at this juncture in the season every year we do a very quick preview of the clay season ahead. There's something so satisfying at the clay season because the French Open is the only Grand Slam that feels like it has this perfect build up to it.

1:25:39It feels like the season has been crafted perfectly to yellow brick road style lead into its Grand Slam. Slightly less so since the extension of the Masters 1000s to two weeks, which has ruined everything. But that aside, we have a beautiful few months ahead. So just a few key clay court questions for you both that I'd like punch your answers to. Matt, I think it was at this point in the podcast last year that David predicted Joel Fonseca to win the French Open. So whether you treat that as a cautionary tale or not is up to you. OK, I want to know who each of you thinks is going to be the men's top seed going into the French Open, please.

1:26:29David Law: I think Sin will be the top seed, won't he? Just because of the sheer way the points are working.

1:26:38David Law: He's got nothing to defend. So you think he will definitely take over number one? Probably, I would have thought. And keep it? I mean, I'm not exactly sure, but I think it would be pretty hard work for Alcaraz to do it, given that he won everything. last year. Matt? Yeah, I think, I mean, I would, I think Sinners, yes, has that points advantage also. You know, Alcaraz has gotten hurt at some point in the clay court season the last couple of years. Is it two out of the last three years or his last two years? I've sort of lost. Pulled out of Madrid, didn't he? He's pulled out of Madrid the last two years.

1:27:22Pulled out of Madrid last year and the year before he was wearing, I mean, he still won the French Open with it, but he was wearing the sleeve, wasn't he? Yes, I guess I, you know, I mean, and he, you know, he is someone who we've seen is, you know, can be vulnerable to Niggles. Maybe a little more than Sinner, someone, although Sinner has pulled out of tournaments during clay before as well. But, you know, I guess just the combination of points and the complications of Alker as managing that schedule and where he won last year. And Sinner's, oh, by the way, serving really well right now. Who do we think will be the third guy on clay this season?

1:28:15Novak Djokovic is just, we've heard that he's pulled out of Monte Carlo. Lorenzo Mazzetti felt I think like the third guy over the course of the clay season last year but he's got significant injury doubts David I can feel you itching to say are to feast this is your

1:28:34David Law: chance listen I think I think fees can have some very significant results if he stays fit on clay this year but I think it's hands down Zverev I mean for a start Zverev is ranked number three with a bit of a gap and he's playing so much better than he did a year ago and clay is probably his best surface so i think he's going to be a handful for as long as if he continues the way he's going and he is playing the sport the way frankly he should have been trying to play it for years um if if he carries on like he is he's going to be he's going to be a handful for everybody um but yeah, so he's going to go into the French Open as number three, I'm sure of it.

1:29:19Matt? Yeah, I would go Zverev as well. I hate to be boring, but I would put an asterisk on that because I think at the French Open, Novak Djokovic is the third guy. I would put him, or 3A, right even with Zverev still. So, you know, I mean, I think he showed last year.

1:29:44David Law: You think he's the third in line sort of thing. You think Djokovic is the third most likely to win the thing when you get there? Yeah, I think if there was some strange world where one of Alcaraz or Sinner loses, I mean, he's the one to, or both, you know, he's the most likely one to pick up the pieces. I haven't seen anything I didn't see anything last year That suggested otherwise If you had to pick Your women's French Open champion Right now Who would you both pick? The men's champion No, women's Oh sorry, the women's I would go Sabalenka So you go Sabalenka and Alcaraz Yeah Matt? Sviyantek Who do you think her next coach will be?

1:30:44It was one of the phone calls about that I don't know Do you have intel? Tell us everything

1:30:52I'm dying to know I am dying to know who The phone call or her coach? Her coach Oh, okay

1:31:04Yeah, I'm dying to know her coach as well but you know i wouldn't be surprised you know it's such a tight-knit polish team um and i'm always of the theory you know it's very big on the nfl that like you hire one guy and then that doesn't work and then you just you hire the other guy you know the opposite of that you go between like the disciplinarian and the quote-unquote players coach so the pivot for her would be to me is like let's go back to a polish coach um and so i'm not saying thomas wikorowski but uh you know i i i don't know but i think but um you know i just like have faith in the great athletes on the slippery stuff like and you know it's it's a long time from now to Paris like she's got a lot of time to work some stuff out and it's going to be a while before I bet against Iga, I don't bet actually but I'm going to have to see a lot of data before I start going against Iga Sviantec on red clay her schedule management is going to be interesting as well i mean in the past we've seen her not really do schedule management she's you know just kind of want to play wanted to play everything that she's technically supposed to play but we have seen signs with her skipping dubai that there's a shift there so that'll be a very interesting to see as well and what was the last tournament what was the last tournament she went into with like zero expectations Wimbledon?

1:32:53Yeah, worked out pretty well for her, didn't she? But the thing is, she doesn't have zero expectations because it's Igor Svantec on clay, Matt. I agree with you. I think the expectations thing is really significant for Svantec, but I don't think that applies here in the same way. Maybe not. Wait, you've just predicted her to win the French Open. Sure. This is not no expectations. You're right, yeah. But maybe she can trick herself into thinking that in her own mind. That she doesn't have expectations. Right. Yeah. She needs to turn this podcast off. Assuming she's not listening to this podcast.

1:33:29Sure you said she's not. Well, I'm going to turn it off in a minute, David. Don't you worry. She's not good enough to have expectations, she said. Right. Yeah. So, ah. I'm not turning anything off before we talk about Moxie, our mascot for today's episode are you going to like this one Matt Matt is Matt's a big dog guy having when I met him been a self-declared not a dog guy this is your kind of dog Matt this is Moxie Moxie is a Corgi clearly look at those ears and Morgie is owned by long time listener and supporter Rishi we know Rishi Rishi says my wife Kelsey and I got Moxie when she was an eight-week-old puppy back in 2016.

1:34:18And she's been the greatest companion and friend ever since. She's turning 10 in July. And like many corgis, she has a ton of personality. She's extremely smart, affectionate, goofy, and will do absolutely anything for food. She's also well-travelled within the continental US. She moved with us from Denver to Minneapolis and then back to Denver again. And she's accompanied us on dozens of flights and road trips from coast to coast. I'm so envious that you can take dogs on flights in the US. Billie Jean will never taste foreign soil.

1:34:59Apparently, Moxie's even made a handful of trips to Indian Wells. Sadly, she's not the biggest tennis fan, probably because her dad tends to scream during exciting points how many his favourite players win important matches. This is the first time Moxie has been a tennis podcast mascot, although she did feature on Catherine's COVID Pet live stream show back in 2020. David, what was my COVID Pet live stream show? Did things get so weird that I just went live and talked about dogs?

1:35:33David Law: I think so.

1:35:39Rings a bell.

1:35:43wow covid what a time folks um but rishi says we chose this year in particular to make her a mascot because she's been feeling a bit neglected lately because kelsey and i welcomed a baby girl to our family back in november 2020 2025 i assume he means a human baby girl it's not specified but that's what i'm going to assume uh while moxie is not having the best time right now we know that in In due time, she'll become a wonderful big sister, particularly when our kiddo starts eating solid food and dropping things on the ground for Moxie to clean up. That is definitely my experience of Billie Jean going to stay with her niece and nephew.

1:36:23It gets better as they get older. Don't worry. And Vicky says, lovely Vicky, who's been in the chat today and managing all the wonderful things that you've seen on the screen, including this beautiful picture of Moxie. Vicky says we've seen a photo of Rishi's baby because he sent one in not long after she was born and she is also gorgeous. So thank you, Rishi, for Moxie. Congratulations belatedly for the birth of your lovely baby daughter. And I can confirm that Moxie is an absolute joy. We have our mascots, Phoebe, Maisie and Roger. Hello to you. Hello to our executive producers and top folks, Greg, Chris and Jeff.

1:37:10Matt, thank you ever so much for your takes and your time on today's show and your your background that people in the chat have been obsessed with. Oh, thanks. They should come to Morningside Heights. See it. See it in real life as IRL, as the kids say. I've done that and thanks for having me thanks for inviting me along it's fun it's great to have you Matt thank you very much I'll be nervous to wear a baseball cap around you next time we see you yeah I'm not going to talk about women and their hats anymore

1:37:50David Law: he's learned his lesson it's all good

1:37:55David thank you I know you have to be here but thank you it's been great Thank you. Yeah, thank you all for listening. Thank you to everybody that's joined us live tonight, if you have, and as contribute to the lively chat, as always, we'll be back next Monday, hope with a fit and raring to go and raring to brag about his golfing game, quite frankly, as he has been doing in our group chat over the course of the weekend. Yeah, hopefully Matt Roberts is back to full fitness this time next week. We'll be back with another pod next Monday. It's a two-pod week next week. Thank you all for listening.

1:38:33We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. We will speak to you soon.

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